Conan the Barbarian - Background, The Phoenix on the Sword, and The Frost Giant's Daughter

We leave sci-fi behind and jump into sword and orcery with Robert E. Howard’s Conan the Barbarian. 

We talk pulp context, the Hyborian Age’s “historical shorthand,” and why Conan on the page feels smarter, stranger, and more human than the pop culture version we were more familiar with. 

Transcript

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Welcome Back And The Big Genre Shift

Michael Kentris 0:05

Hello and welcome back, dear listeners, to Brothers Reading Books, your science fiction fantasy podcast. We are your hosts. I am Michael Kentris, and I'm joined, as always, by my brother. Hi, I'm Will Kentris. Will, how are you doing today? I'm doing very well. How about you, Michael? I'm great. I'm a little sleep deprived, but that's okay because we have, I think, an exciting topic to get into. So longtime listeners of the show will know that we just finished off Dune, and we are doing a hard sub-genre shift to Sword and Sorcery. And we are diving into the original Conan the Barbarian stories. So I'm pretty excited about this. Yeah, this is my first time reading it. Uh I think as we had mentioned previously, my only exposure to Conan so far has been with the movies. And I will say, after reading these first few stories, there does seem to be quite a difference in the quality of writing. Right, right. Yeah, everyone thinks of like the Conan the Barbarian movie with Arnold Schwarzenegger as kind of this muscle-bound uh you know barbarian, right? And uh you think of like classic scenes from the movie where you know he punches a horse in the face and knocks it unconscious, or things like that, right? That are kind of like campy and over the top. And the Which to be fair, yeah, I don't think is necessarily untrue to the source material, but it's done much more eloquently. Right, right.

Robert E. Howard And Pulp Origins

Michael Kentris 1:39

So I thought we'd start a little bit by talking about the author Robert Howard, kind of one of these tragic literary figures who burned very brightly before passing away at a young age. So so he was only 30 years old when he died in the year, was it 1936? So a lot of his writing was kind of in that period of time. Well, that's a stupid sentence. Was obviously while he was alive, but it was in the uh you know late 20s, 30s. So he was one of these people who were writing for these serial magazines, you know, I think of like Weird Tales or all these kind of like pulp fiction kind of publications that were out kind of targeted at uh I mean primarily, you know, young men, boys. And so we get mostly short stories from him.

SPEAKER_03 2:27

Yeah, uh bit of poetry as well. It sounds like he did write a fair amount of poetry, and I know there's some excerpts included, particularly with this first story, where they kind of act as these sort of I don't know, not necessarily separations, kind of providing borders between the scenes.

Michael Kentris 2:45

Yes. So, and I should say that uh for us today we are reading the edition called the Coming of Conan the Sumerian, and that's Sumerian spelled C-I-M-M-E-R-I-A-N. Or it smells looks like Chimerian or Sumerian. But it's as far as I can tell, pronounced Sumerian. Is that what you found as well? Yeah, like something, something like that. I forget what you know.

SPEAKER_03 3:11

Well, usually when I say I find words I don't know, I'm like, Google, tell me how to pronounce this. I think I think Sumerian was the one that I had heard, but I'm not gonna split here.

Michael Kentris 3:21

We're going with the soft sea today.

SPEAKER_03 3:23

Alright.

Michael Kentris 3:24

That's Sonan the Sumerian.

SPEAKER_03 3:27

Sonan the Sumerian.

Michael Kentris 3:29

Anyway, no. God, that went off the rails pretty quickly. But uh so this is one of his more famous characters, right? Robert Howard was also responsible for other characters like like Solomon Kane and gosh, what was it? Uh Kerg the Conqueror. I'm mispronouncing that. Kang, I apologize. Kang the Conqueror. Yeah, I know he's listed somewhere in here.

SPEAKER_03 3:50

Cole? It's some prototype barbarian figure, though. That it sounds like he reworked a lot of those stories for Conan.

Michael Kentris 3:58

Yes. So obviously, I didn't research that particular character enough. But uh but he was famous for these serial serializations. And so uh it was he's also an interesting character, right? So he's in Texas and he had uh, you know, letter correspondence with other authors at the time, most notably H.P. Lovecraft, you know, who was the father of the kind of uh weird horror genre, although uh some people at the time might have just caught it called it speculative fiction, more so than horror per se. But I thought Howard obviously takes a little bit of a different tact, right? So he's we have to think about Texas in the 1930s. So it would have been much more of a rough and tumble place than it even is presently compared to some parts of America, which I'm sure a lot of Texans would take pride in. But I thought the introduction in this book was was very useful to kind of frame your mind. So we have this character who is basically in this setting where he's trying to create a world where he can take all the barbarians of the past, kind of shake them up and see what happens. And we do see that in some of these stories. Uh like the second story that we'll talk about today, the uh Frost Giant's Daughter, he's literally fighting against, you know, like you know, pseudo-vikings. So we just have all these different culture clashes, and he's kind of throwing them together. And, you know, not to get too ahead of myself, we have this world of like Hyborea, the Hyborean age. And there have been, you know, poems written about it and maps and all these kinds of things. And it is like he kind of takes a pseudo-pre pre-history kind of view of this, so that it is the point in his mind that these are supposed to look like echoes of cultures that are familiar to us. And when you're writing in a serialized thing, right, word count matters, so you have to use shorthand for your readers to conjure up images more quickly. So you're kind of tapping into, you know, if you want to use a Jungian kind of phrase, the collective unconscious of different ideas and tropes, which I think he does very well.

SPEAKER_03 6:12

No, I I agree. That's definitely something that I was thinking of.

Michael Kentris 6:14

Like by making these places and things kind of references and allusions to real-world places, yeah, like you said, very much it is kind of this very much easy, shorthand way of being like, okay, rather than having to go into all this explicit detail of what their culture is and what you can expect from them, it's you know, they're they're Vikings. I know what a Viking is.

SPEAKER_03 6:36

I don't I don't need to know the specifics of whatever this fake, you know, Hyborean equivalent is, because I, in my mind, already have a facsimile of it that I can use as a reference.

Hyborian Age As Historical Shorthand

Michael Kentris 6:48

Right. So, you know, this uh this initial introduction written by Mark Schultz. I thought that uh there's a lot of talk also about what is the correct order. Whenever you have a lot of short stories or works by by an author that kind of jump around timeline-wise, you know, what is the quote unquote correct order to read things? And I like that uh he talks about we have a hero who maybe in a singular story does not change, but from story to story, there is an evolution, there is a change. And he almost says that it would be kind of akin to going into a a bar or a tavern, if you like, and sitting down next to some some old man and hearing him tell, tell tale of his life as you, you know, sit there and drink a beer next to him or some such. And I think that was a really interesting way to frame it, is that, you know, this it doesn't matter what the chronological order of these individual stories are. Uh these are put together in publication order essentially, and so you kind of get these different stories kind of jumping around from the you know, later in life, earlier in life. You know, to me, I don't think it matters so much like which one is quote unquote first, because you know, you're hearing this story and it doesn't matter. Maybe some of it's not even true. So what matters if it is in the correct temporal timeline?

SPEAKER_03 8:16

Right. And again, I've only read the first two short stories, so I'm not sure if there are any sort of crucial details that carry over from one story to another. So yeah, totally fine with reading it in publication order. You know, that's obviously the order that Howard wrote it, and seems like just as good an order as any.

Michael Kentris 8:36

Right. And I thought it was interesting that uh there are some reports that Howard had told friends that uh the stories for Conan would appear to him in a dream, as if as if Conan the Barbarian was telling him the stories and he was just relaying them down as kind of the intermediary. I do love that. Just whispers. Right. Right. It's very, you know, mystical. But uh I like this one little bit here. This is a quote from Mark Schultz in the intro. Not every one of the stories in this volume is great. Howard was writing for monthly publication at a white hot pace, and perfection is never possible under those circumstances. So it's also important to remember that he was living in rural Texas, it was the 30s, right? Um, it was like Great Depression time. So he needed that paycheck. And sometimes you just gotta meet a deadline, right?

SPEAKER_03 9:29

Absolutely. I mean, you still see this nowadays with uh particularly the anime industry, where it's like, all right, we gotta churn stuff out. We don't got time to flesh out a story. So we just gotta kind of go as we go and make sure that we meet our deadlines. Yeah. Very true.

Michael Kentris 9:47

And I like uh we also get some stuff here talking about that a lot of people, and this is kind of what we hinted at earlier, their impression of Conan the Barbarian is not actually based on the works of Howard and the actual Conan the Barbarian as written. In these books, he is, you know, he is a barbarian in some some ways. But, you know, if I want to devolve into my my Greek background a little bit, barbarian or barbaros, bar, bar, barbar, or if we use our modern Bavaros, was basically someone who did not speak Greek. So, you know, because uh they would think, you know, the person just sounded like they were saying bar bar bar bar bar barbarian, right? So it's not exactly a very clever etymology, but but it's a again, it's a shorthand for us to understand. And they don't go in, Howard doesn't go in for the quote unquote noble savage, right? Conan has honor, he has a moral code, but he's not afraid to use violence to solve his problems either.

SPEAKER_03 10:48

Yeah. Um there was there was one line I forget where I have it highlighted, but it was like in this introduction, kind of a quote of Conan where it's very much He prefers not nobles because they are not afraid of being rude without getting a sword to the face.

Michael Kentris 11:06

It's it's something along those lines. Yes. Yeah, I think that comes up in one of our our stories in there, probably our next episode. Mm-hmm. I should say I've I've read half of these stories. I was traveling for work this last year, and you know, I feel silly. I haven't read these until you know my late 30s, and I stopped reading them when we decided to do them for this podcast because I wanted to be fresh on some of my takes. But uh but I'm like, man, these are really

Sword And Sorcery With Low Magic

Michael Kentris 11:37

good. I I had been wanting to get more into sword and sorcery as a genre, and I guess we should probably talk a little bit about what sword and sorcery is. So when you think of sword and sorcery, Will, what comes to mind? So for me personally, there are a few films that come to mind from like the 70s and 80s. Uh, one in particular, Fire and Ice. It's a rotoscope animation.

SPEAKER_03 12:04

It is insane, but it's it's very much kind of like you have these sort of quintessential elements that I feel like you associate with a lot of fantasy that sort of is encapsulated by like a lot of Dungeons and Dragons motifs nowadays, where it's like you've got kind of your quintessential like fighters, and then you also have some element of like magical mysticism as well. So whether that's like a wizard or some sort of druid or something along those lines, yeah. I I feel like it's incorporating a lot of sort of those elements into the story.

Michael Kentris 12:37

Yeah, I feel like there's there's definitely a a pulp element, if you will, right? So very much like a central character who is tasked with a certain, usually very concrete objective. And even though it's sword and sorcery, I tend to think of it more as being like like low magic, if you will, if our readers, our listeners are familiar, right? High magic versus low magic, like a low magic setting where there is magic, but it's considered mysterious, dangerous, something not for mortal man. And so there's this inherent mistrust of magic or magic users. And I think that we definitely get some of that in this. There's definitely like a flavor of that even in the in the short stories that we read today. And um I tend to think of like certain authors, you know, Robert Howard is considered one of the pioneers of this genre, but we also have people like Fritz Lieber with Fafford and the Grey Mouser. I don't know if I'm pronouncing that correctly, and then uh Jack Vance's Dying Earth series as well. And uh kind of as a response to those, you actually get Michael Moorcock's Elric of Melnobone, who is kind of an anti-like your first sword and sorcery anti-hero type of character, which maybe we'll get to him at some point, too. He's a bit of an interesting character. And uh yeah, it's very, very interesting as a genre because it's just uh yeah, it's the sensibilities are very different than what we might think of for our our modern man, right? It's written nearly a hundred years ago at this point. Yeah. So it's it's weird to think of something in the 20th century being almost that old. Um, at least to me, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 14:18

There there are definitely times where even more towards the end of the 20th century where it's like, oh, that was only forty years ago. That feels much longer than it sounds. Right.

Michael Kentris 14:33

So as we go forward here, um get a little quote from Lovecraft, actually. So as we mentioned earlier, his Hyborian age was peopled with Sumerians, Vaniers, Namidians, Fgulis, thinly disguised names borrowed from history or legendary. Lovecraft said the only flaw in this stuff is Robert Howard's incurable tendency to devise names too closely resembling actual names, names which for us have a very different set of associations, which again, sometimes yes, sometimes no. But the counter to that was that Howard was, quote, deliberately striving for efficacy and stereotype, allowing him to create an exotic background with a minimum of description. And I like this other quote from Howard himself. My study of history has been a continual search for newer barbarians from age to age. And they talk a lot, one of the themes that comes up with Conan a lot is this barbarism versus civilization, with Howard firmly on the barbarian's side.

SPEAKER_03 15:30

Yeah, I do I do like that kind of way he describes it as a cycle of barbarism to civilization back to barbarism, just in terms of yeah, the way that kind of rise and fall. Yeah.

Michael Kentris 15:41

If we if we take a look at like from our political philosophy hats for a moment, uh I believe the term that they use for this is anapcyclosis, which is this uh, you know, cycle, as the name might imply, of civilization. Civilizational rise and decline and fall, and you get something new, right? This vitalism that comes in, right? That's the barbarism that they're talking about, where it comes in and basically takes over, and then you get this new, you know, quote unquote fresh blood. Things are dynamic, they're expanding, there's conquering, what have you. And then, you know, it becomes entrenched, becomes civilized, and it declines. So that definitely is a school of thought as far as the kind of rise and fall of civilizations. And I should say there were there was two, there's also Patrice Louinette, who also wrote part of this that we were kind of quoting from here. But I like this, this was at the very end here. If the true work of art is something that at once attracts and disturbs, then the Conan stories are something special, an epic painted in bright colors, featuring heroic deeds and larger-than-life characters in fabled lands, but with something darker lurking lying beneath. So with that said, I thought these gave a good kind of jumping-off point, a good background for who Robert Howard is and kind of where he was coming from as he was writing these stories. Because I think it's very easy to say, like, oh, these are just kind of like, you know, again, right, these are sword and sorcery, pulp fiction, you know, just there for for young men to kind of like live out their barbarian fantasies. But I think that's kind of a a disservice, perhaps. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 17:19

I do say, I will say that Conan is not a one-dimensional character, like, as he's often depicted.

Michael Kentris 17:26

Right. And I'll just use this moment to you know, if a book has an introduction, you should always read it if you're taking it seriously. Like uh, you know, Will knows this, but I I've been on a bit of a classics binge. So I just finished up a book of Aeschylus, uh, and I just picked up another volume here. And so all of these classic, you know, a penguin I have a holding up penguin's classics in my hand right now, and they all have introductions. It provide historical context and background. And now I will say some introductions are better than the others, some are more biased than others. But if you are unfamiliar with the author and their historical context, an introduction is always a useful starting point.

SPEAKER_03 18:08

Yeah, I will say, especially if it's something that has been around for a long time that a lot of people have come to appreciate, it can be very useful to get some, like you said, general context on what necessarily the writer's circumstances were to maybe get it some insight into why and how it was written.

Michael Kentris 18:27

Mm-hmm. Absolutely.

Cimmeria’s Gloom And Conan’s Gods

Michael Kentris 18:29

So we move forward, and at first we have a poem entitled Sumeria. Now, I don't know if this was written first, actually. We were talking about publication order before, but it was definitely placed first in this compilation. But it's it's only a few pages here, and I think it's supposed to give us a little bit of a flavor of what Sumeria is. All right, this is the place that has shaped Conan, this is the place he has left. So I think it provides good context from that. And we get, I won't read the whole thing here, but there's a lot of description here, right? They talk about sombre hills, dusky streams that flowed without a sound, sullen trees, gaunt land, right? A very depressing sort of sp place. And then we get partway through here, uh, Sumeria, land of darkness and deep night. So what are your thoughts when you're reading this, Will?

SPEAKER_03 19:18

So definitely, yeah, very empty.

Michael Kentris 19:22

So I I do know that right here, like it sounds like Robert Howard put in like this little bit where it he is writing it with like a certain landscape in mind, suggested by the memory of the hill country above Fredericksburg, seen in a mist of winter rain.

SPEAKER_03 19:36

And I do feel like it's evoked here. You know, like you said, the endless vista, hill on hill, slope beyond slope, each hooded like its brothers.

Michael Kentris 19:45

It was a gloomy land that seemed to hold all winds and clouds and dreams that shun the sun with bare boughs rattling in the lonesome winds. Yeah, it it does not give cozy. Right. And we get a little bit more flavor of this when when uh Conan talks about the gods of his land, you know, Krom in particular. Yeah. Um and how they are, let's just say, not kind gods per se. So, yes, this is the land which birthed Conan. Um, and so that gives us a little bit of a perspective on kind of who he is, where he comes from.

Phoenix On The Sword Sets The Stage

Michael Kentris 20:22

So our first short story here, we're finally getting into it, you know. Not even been half an hour, we're doing pretty good today. The Phoenix on the sword. So this was a an interesting one, and I am going to read the introduction here because we get, as our listeners will know, uh, when we have meta literature at the beginning of it, I can't help myself. So bear with me. I think this gives a lot of flavor of the world in which Conan exists, which if this is the first story that was published, they would need that, so that you would know a little bit more about the world in which the action is occurring. Know, O prince, that between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities, and the years of the rise of the sons of Arius, there was an age undreamed of when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world like blue mantles beneath the stars. Numidia, Ophir, Brithunia, Hyperborea, Zomora with its dark haired women in towers of spider haunted mystery, Zingara with its chivalry, Koth that bordered on the pastoral lands of Shem, Stygia with its shadow guarded tombs, Hyrcania, whose riders wore steel and silken gold, but the proudest kingdom of the world was Aquilonia, reigning supreme in the dreaming west. Hither came Conan the Sumerian, black haired, sullen eyed, sword in hand, a thief, a reaver, a slayer, with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jewelled thrones of the earth under his sandal feet. From the Nomidian Chronicles. So we kind of get this epic tone to the story. So we have this kingdom, in amongst this kind of litany of kings, aquiline. Aquilonia or Aquil, how did you pronounce it? Aquilonia.

SPEAKER_03 22:03

Yeah, mentally as Aquilonia.

Michael Kentris 22:05

Alright, we'll keep it. So it's this is supposed to be a rich kingdom, and then we've got Conan has come and has conquered it. So we kind of dive, and that is the thing with these stories, right? They they do dive right into the action. There's not a lot of build-up and exposition in most of these stories. So we we start with a group of collaborators. So we get this group of four masked figures who are kind of sneaking around, and again, Howard's prose, you know, I was reading some passages from a couple of these short stories to my wife, and she was like, wow, that is that is some purple prose right there. Um for those who aren't familiar, purple prose is kind of just very ornate, flowery sorts of language. And uh I mean we're already getting a flavor of that even from just this first, you know, I think, oh, that was a poem, that's a one-off. No, that is how he writes. And personally, I love it. I think it is I I'm very fond of ornate texts like this. So for me, it's uh it scratches a certain itch. But they talk about uh they uh they spoke not, but went swiftly into the gloom, cloaks wrapped closely about them, as silently as the ghosts of murdered men, they disappeared in the darkness. So it's uh it's definitely right, it's it's giving you a flavor, right? These are uh these people are up to no good.

SPEAKER_03 23:26

Mm-hmm. Right.

Michael Kentris 23:27

I mean, yeah, they're like you said, they are they are masked, they are cloaked, they are skulking in the dark. Right. And so we've got this Stiggian character who is talking to another person named Ascalante, and they're saying that these are the Rebel Four who have summoned me from the southern desert. So we learn essentially that that uh Conan is king, and these people are plotting his downfall, right? These are Aquilonians who are not fond of uh Conan as king and are looking to take the throne for themselves. And so we've got a list here of Volmanna, the dwarfish count of Caribon, Gromel, the giant commander of the Black Legion, Dion, the fat baron of Attalus, and Rinaldo, the hare-brained minstrel.

SPEAKER_03 24:16

Yeah, so whenever I read these sorts of stories, I always have to wonder for a brief second until it's further clarified, or I just accept it one way or the other. Whenever somebody's described as a giant, I don't know if they mean it in the literal sense, as of like descended from giants, which very well could be the case as you know, if there are giants in this world.

Michael Kentris 24:38

Right? Or if he's just a very, very tall person. You know, that's a good point, actually. There's a point of contention that I have in some of these stories. There there can be some ambiguity in how to interpret them.

SPEAKER_03 24:51

It's again, it's not a big point of contention, it's just there is a moment in my in my mind where I have to make a snap decision on how I'm going to mentally vision this person or imagine this person.

Michael Kentris 25:05

Right. And so we can tell by these descriptions, this Ascalante character does not think high of his co-conspirators here. Right. He provides various uh motivations for each of them, which do all seem to be kind of petty.

SPEAKER_03 25:19

The fat another fat baron. Right. We left one, we get another. Dion, you know, thinks that eventually he'll be able to claim the throne because he has some royal blood.

Michael Kentris 25:31

Volmano wants to be rich. It sounds like he's his estate has fallen hard times. Grommel wants to be commander of the whole army, and the only one who doesn't have like a personal motivation is the the bard, Ronaldo, and it just kind of sounds like, you know, he uh just doesn't like Conan. Right. He's a a foolish idealist, essentially, is kind of how they frame him. Yeah. So, yeah, what do they say? He sees in Conan a red-handed, rough-footed barbarian who came out of the north to plunder a civilized land. And they talk about how uh the poet wrote this thing called The Lament for the King, in which Renato lauds the sainted villain and denounces Conan as that black-hearted savage from the abyss. So, yeah, and kind of we get this little thing here, right? Uh, why does he hate Conan? Poets always hate those in power. To them, perfection is always just behind the last corner or beyond the next. They escape the present in dreams of the past and future. And then, yeah, we kind of get a little bit of Oscalante's motivations here as well. We get a little bit of scheming within schemes. So it sounds like previously he was a raider.

SPEAKER_03 26:39

He was raiding caravans down in the desert, and ultimately he believes that once Dion takes the throne, that he will slowly just kill each successive person in line until eventually he will sit on the throne. Escalante, King of Aquilonia.

Michael Kentris 26:58

Yes. How do you like that? And this this Stigan, so we get a little bit of a characterization here that he was, you know, he's from a desert country in the south. Um and they could see Thoth Aman of the Ring serving as a slave of an outlander. So and we kind of get maybe this is a flavor of kind of old, ancient Egyptian sort of again, right? This kind of ancient magic that's kind of dark and evil. So And we get characters, right? He says, uh he swears like by the serpent fangs of Set. So we get a lot of these kind of, you know, again, Egyptian mythology shorthand here. So I do like this part with Uskalantean uh Thoth, where it's like, you laid your trusted magic and mummary, I trust my wits and my sword. And he responds, Wits and swords are as straws against the wisdom of the darkness. Had I not lost the ring, our positions might be reversed. So again, we get we get some general backstory there to understand, okay, something's going on there with Thoth. He lost his his focus, his ring of power, if you will. Yes. And this this was, I believe, before uh the Lord of the Rings was out. So, you know, different magic rings, very common trope.

SPEAKER_03 28:14

Right.

Michael Kentris 28:14

So we learned that uh basically Ascalante has a hold over Thoth Aman here, inasmuch as there are people in Stigia who want to kill him, and he has gone into hiding. Since he lost his ring, it was stolen. He no longer has his his magic powers like he did, and so he has made many enemies, and he had to flee the country more or less, and so now he is the servant of this outlaw Ascalante, and if he betrays him, there is a hermit priest in the southern desert who will break the seal of a manuscript, and a wind will creep up from the south, and where will you hide your head, thought Amon. So anyway. All this is to say he says then I don't trust Dion, ride after him to his estate, and make sure that he doesn't balt and give away the plan. Right.

SPEAKER_03 29:02

Yeah, make sure that he does not last second confess to Kona in a panic too, save his own hide. Right. And off he goes. Off he

Conan’s Crown And Civilized Resentment

SPEAKER_03 29:12

goes.

Michael Kentris 29:12

Book two And we get a little poem here. I thought this was kind of funny. When I was a fighting man, the kettle drums they beat, the people scattered gold dust before my horse's feet, but now I am a great king, the people hound my track, with poison in my wine cup and daggers at my back, from the road of kings. So now we get the man himself, but we get a description of Conan.

SPEAKER_03 29:37

Right? So yeah, as we already discussed, he is the king of Aquilonia, and he is living as such.

Michael Kentris 29:42

He's in a very ornate room with rich tapestries on the polished panel walls, deep rugs on the ivory floor, and just overall still has these very extravagant trappings. And again, we get this it is, it is purple prose. Um a description of Conan. Behind an ivory golden laid writing table sat a man whose broad shoulders and sun brown skin seemed out of place among those luxuriant surroundings. He seemed more a part of the sun and winds in high places of the outlands. His slightest movements spoke of steel spring muscles knit to a keen brain with the coordination of a born fighting man. There was nothing deliberate or measured about his actions. Either he was perfectly at rest, still as a bronze statue, or else he was in motion, not with the jerky quickness of overtense nerves, but with a cat like speed that blurred the sight which tried to follow him. It didn't actually describe like most of what he looks like. It's more of a like what is what is his presence? What is like when you observe this person, what perceptions should you have?

SPEAKER_03 30:46

Yeah, I think one of the few like physical descriptions we get of him is just that he has black hair.

Michael Kentris 30:53

Right, and smoldering blue eyes. Yes. So yeah, like it it definitely leaves it up to the reader to mentally imagine what he looks like. Right. He's a big dude, you know, he's menacing, he's got long black hair and blue eyes, and that's about that's most of the description. So he's talking, he's he's in the throne room, and he is talking with basically this uh knight, Prospero. And Prospero's a little bit of a sounds like a pop and jay, as far as uh he's checking himself out in the mirror here. Right. So so he is an Aquilonian, specifically from an area called Poetania, which does get mentioned actually in the next story as well. So this is good because we learn that you know Poetania is part of Aqua, it's part of this rich area, they've got lots of gardens, all that kind of stuff. So give us an idea. This this is a man, he's a fighting man, but he is from a very luxurious background. So we learn that uh Prospero is leading this force to deal with these Namidians and um, what do they call them? The Picts, I believe, right? Another barbarian tribe, for those who know their English history. He is uh saying that I I want to go with you. I like this, right? We get this man. He's a king of a rich country, and he's full of regret. So it's kind of the classic, you know, be careful what you wish for, you just might get it, sort of thing. I did not dream far enough Prospero when King Pneumidides lay dead at my feet, and I tore the crown from his gory head and set it on my own. I had reached the ultimate border of my dreams. I had prepared myself to take the crown, not to hold it. Now no paths are straight and my sword is useless. Right? So we we have a fighting man who is now the king and cannot necessarily fight his own battles directly. Right.

SPEAKER_03 32:34

Uh it very much like you said, is like it's like a car dog chasing cars, you know. They don't know what they'll do if they actually catch it. Right, right. And then yeah, I carved just keeps on lamenting his situation.

Michael Kentris 32:47

When I overthrew Pneumadides, then I was the liberator, now they spit at my shadow.

SPEAKER_03 32:52

They've put a statue of that swine in the Temple of Mitra, and people go and wail before it, hailing it as the holy effigy of a saintly monarch who was done to death by a red-handed barbarian.

Michael Kentris 33:02

When I led her armies to victory as a mercenary, Aquilonia overlooked the fact that I was a foreigner, but now she cannot forgive me.

SPEAKER_03 33:15

Right. Which is kind of ironic considering the coup that will shortly take place or attempt to take place.

Michael Kentris 33:23

Right. So so we do get right Prospero uh talking about you know Ronaldo, his sings songs that make my men mad. And he's saying, Hang him in his gestures garb to the highest tower in the city, let him make rhymes for the vultures. And he says, No Prospero, he's beyond my reach. A great poet is greater than any king. His songs are mightier than my scepter, for he has near ripped the heart from my breast when he chose to sing for me. I shall die and be forgotten, but Ronaldo's songs will live forever. So we have here, right, uh a man who appreciates the arts and poetry. Mm-hmm. And so not, again, right, our our multi-layered barbarian. And then we get kind of a hint here from Conan's perspective, his spidey sense that something's going on, that there's something hidden, some undercurrent of which we are not aware. I sense it as in my youth, I sense the tiger hidden in the tall grass. So he knows that there's unrest going on in the kingdom right now. So I don't know if he's necessarily doing anything to anticipate it or act on it, but he is aware. Yes. And so we get uh, you know, they kind of go back and forth about these things, and you know, Prospero's saying the only danger is assassination, which is impossible, right? Obviously, not. And they asked what he's working on. So Conan's drawing a map, and he says that the uh the north are vague and faulty. I'm adding the northern lands myself. Here is Sumeria where I was born, and uh they also mention Asgard and Vanaheim. So again, right, we kind of get these kind of Norse mythology locations essentially as physical places in this world. So, which those will figure in our next story, but we'll uh leave that for now. But they they do mention their these northern folk are tall, fair, and blue-eyed, their god is Umir, the frost giant, and each tribe has its own king. They fight all day and drink L and roar their wild songs all night, right? So more barbarians. Right. And I like this. Uh Prospero says, Then I think you were like them, you laugh greatly, drink deep, and bell a good songs, though I never saw another Sumerian who drank aught but water, or whoever laughed, or whoever sang save to say chant dismal dirges. And then you know, Connor replies, Perhaps it's the land they live in, a gloomier land never was. And they talk, they have no hope here or hereafter. Their gods are Krom and his dark race, who rule over a sunless place of everlasting mist, which is the world of the dead. So yeah, uh Grim. It's basically like uh I think all they're famous for is like producing great warriors. It's the chief export. Chief export yes, uh mercenaries. Which I mean there are countries like that historically, so it does happen.

SPEAKER_03 36:03

I mean, and to be fair, you know, you have this sort of oppressed people who become these superb warriors.

Michael Kentris 36:11

We we saw that happening with the Sartakar and the Frevin, so it's not necessarily a unique warrior culture instance, yeah. Book three. So now we get another little thing here. Under the all right, this it's just flavor text. I like it. Uh Under one. I don't know. Do you remember your Egyptian mythology, Will? Um about the god Set. I don't. I've I've been lax in that lately. So I believe um he is one of the Egyptian gods of the underworld. Actually, no, he Osiris is. He's the one who murdered Osiris. So he is another one of these kind of Egyptian deities. Deserts, storms, disorder, violence. Uh so yeah. Uh powerful god. That's fair. Is he is he a snake or a snake person in his traditional depiction? Let's see here. Depicted as an inig this is from the Wikipedia, usually depicted as an enigmatic creature, referred to as the set animal, a beast not identified with any known animal, although it could be seen as resembling a Soleuki, which is a type of dog, a sighthound, an artvark, an African wild dog, a donkey, a hyena, a jackal, a pig, an antelope, a giraffe, or a fennec fox.

SPEAKER_03 37:31

None of those are a snake.

Michael Kentris 37:33

No, no. Anyway. Yes. Yeah, he's kind of like the uh the main conflict person with Horace. He's kind of like the god of knowledge. Okay. Anyway, so these aren't, you know, these aren't direct anal, you know, directly map onto each other. We're just we're just borrowing names. We're not necessarily one-to-one. Correct. So we set the

The Ring Returns And A Horror Hunts

Michael Kentris 37:55

scene. Uh we are following Dion of Adelis here, and he is accompanied with Thothamon. So again, the baron, the fat baron, he is living a life of a luxury as well. He's described as have they're sitting within a circular grove of slender trees, whose interlapping branches cast a thick shade over him. Near at hand, a fountain tinkled silverly, and other unseen fountains in various parts of the great garden whispered an everlasting symphony. Beautiful. So we learn that he is not alone. He is with Thothamon. So Thothamon has completed his goal of meeting up with Dion, and basically Thothamon, let's just say he thinks well of himself, and he's listening to this guy talk, and he is trying to convince him to betray Ascalante. So listen, I am a great I was a great sorcerer in the South. You know, men spoke of Thothamon as they spoke of Ramon. King Tishpan of Stygia gave me great honor casting down the magicians from the high places to exalt me above them. So just a quick quick aside here. Some of our listeners may recognize the phrase, the high places, which show up in the Old Testament a lot. And this kind of goes back to like pagan worship essentially. So pagan literally coming from like the Greek pagos, meaning like hill. So that's where the shrines would be on the high places. So just a little there is there is a uh an implication this is like a pagan religion of some sort. Right? So again, just a touchstone language. I think it's important to remember that a lot of people who would have been reading this a hundred years ago nearly would have read the Bible much more often than we do as modern people. That's fair.

SPEAKER_01 39:46

Anyway. Yes.

Michael Kentris 39:48

So yeah, again, more explicitly, I did dark and terrible magic with the serpent ring of C in case you didn't pick up on the subtle hand. Here it is very explicitly. But a thief stole the ring and my power was broken. So he fled. So he talks about how he could help him out and all that kind of stuff. And basically, uh Dion is an idiot is my takeaway from this.

SPEAKER_03 40:08

Right, he's not paying attention to him at all. Yes.

Michael Kentris 40:11

It's like literally, he's like, oh, a ring. I think I have a ring laying around here. Let me look for it. Uh literally ring, ring. Thoth had underestimated the man's utter egoism. Dion had not even been listening to the slave's words, so completely engrossed was he in his own thoughts, but the final word stirred a ripple in his self-centeredness. So that makes me remember my ring of good fortune. I had it from a Shimitish thief who swore he stole it from a wizard far to the south, and that it would bring me luck. I paid him enough, Mitra knows. By the gods I need all the luck I can have, but with Volmana and Ascalante dragging me into their bloody plots, I'll see to the ring, and I don't think it'll come as a huge surprise to the listener here. It's the same ring. Yes. And we get a nice description here. It was of a metal like copper and was made in the form of a scaled serpent, coiled in three loops with its tail in its mouth. Its eyes were yellow gems which glittered balefully. Thothamon cried out as if he had been struck, and Dion wheeled and gaped, his face suddenly bloodless. So basically, Thothamot recognizes the ring, he cries out, steel glitters in his hands, and with a great heave of his dusky shoulders he drove the dagger into the Baron's fat body. So this is Dion's high thin squeal broke in a strangled gurgle, and his whole flabby frame collapsed like melted butter. A fool to the end, he died in Mad Tower. M Mad you know why? An unfortunate end.

SPEAKER_03 41:39

That's a bad fortune ring if I ever saw.

Michael Kentris 41:42

Right. So yes, uh yeah, drinking the evil aura of it into his dark soul. Just in case the reader is not yet aware, Thothamon is evil. He's a bad guy. So he's got his magic ring back, and he basically what's the first thing he does? Well, he summons a horrible beast from the the beyond and sets it to Dark Works. Right, to get revenge on Ascalante for enslaving him.

SPEAKER_03 42:07

Because yeah, I don't think we mentioned it, but basically when Thoth had fled, he was part of a caravan and got taken as a slave by Ascalante, who spared him after briefly hearing his backstory.

Michael Kentris 42:21

And so we get this description of the creature. And you know, even if you didn't know that Howard and Lovecraft were correspondents, it definitely has that same flavor of the way that he describes things in a lot of well, I should say, Lovecraft describes things in a lot of his works. So uh a nameless freezing wind blew on him briefly as if from an opened door. That's a capitalized D door. Thoth felt a presence at his back, but he did not look back. He kept his eyes fixed on the moonlit space of marble on which a tenuous shadow hovered. As it continued his whispered incantations, this shadow grew in size and clarity until it stood out distinct and horrific. Its outline was not unlike that of a gigantic baboon, but no such baboon ever walked the earth, not even in Stigia. So right, we just get this like shape, this giant kind of you know, monkey baboon ape kind of shape, and uh he draws a girdle from his sandal a sandal from his girdle, sorry, keep my my clothing straight. Basically it's like here's he's got one of Ascalante's shoes, and he's like a bloodhound, like smell this, go get him. And so he sets him loose. Find him who wore it and destroy him, look into his eyes and blast his soul before you tear out his throat. Kill him and all with him.

SPEAKER_03 43:39

Yes. Yeah, that one seemed to be a bit of an afterthought there.

Michael Kentris 43:42

Well, he is not a nice man, so no. Yeah. Thoth saw the whore lower its misshapen head, take the scent like some hideous hound. Anyway, so so yeah, right now so now we have this nameless whore on the loose looking for Ascalante. I'm sure that won't present any. Many challenges for our hero as we go. Right. Totally extraneous to our story. Book four. Scene Change. When the world was young and men were weak, and the fiends of the night walked free, my stroke was set by fire and steel, and the juice of the Upas tree. Now that I sleep and the mount's black heart and the ages take their toll, forget ye him who fought with the snake to save the human soul.

Epimetrius Warns Through A Dream

Michael Kentris 44:26

I think this is some foreshadowing here. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So we get uh King Conan sleeping, and essentially we get a dream scene here. Yes. So he's in this gray mist, and he hears this word, his own name being called across the gulfs of space or time. And we get even references here. What's that? Both capitalized. That's right. Yes, capital S, Capital G. He's in this hallway, and there are these like figures of ancient heroes, half forgotten gods, and he sees the shadowy outlines of the capitalized nameless old ones, which should sound familiar to anyone who has read any Lovecraft at all. Yeah, definitely. So he's on this staircase, the abhorrent figure of the old serpent set, so at each step he planted his heel on the head of the snake, as it was intended from old times. So, right, this is kind of like old imagery as well, that does have both biblical and kind of you know Near Eastern references, inasmuch as like, you know, you strike the serpent with your heel. I believe this is from Genesis, from uh we're referring to Eve and the serpent, right? Your your heel will trot on his head, that kind of thing. And then um I learned just recently that I believe it's Armenian Orthodox priests in their vestments, right? They're the priestly garb, they have shoes, and on the heels there's like a scorpion and a serpent. So like as they're serving liturgy, they're literally trotting on the serpent and the scorpion as they're performing their services. Which I thought was kind of like a very symbolic touch there. Definitely. But uh but yeah, anyway, so like the idea being that you know this character has been subdued and conquered, right? You're trotting on his head every time you pass through this this staircase. So he goes up the stairs, there's a vague white bearded figure sitting on a tomb. It's like, oh man, do you know me? Not I by Krom. Sorry, they swear by their gods a lot here, like by Mitra, by Krom. Uh, and it's just like it definitely gives you a flavor, and I enjoy it. It's ridiculous. I I do like how they just address each other as like man. Yes. Like man, said the ancient, I am Epimetrius? Is that yes? So yeah, I was I was going with more of a Greek flair, but uh Epimetrius, but I have no idea. Either one's probably fine. So I kind of think of this, but Epimetrius the sage has been dead for fifteen hundred years. But no, um, I do feel like that has a little bit of a flavor, right? Everyone thinks of Prometheus, um, but he had a brother, Epimetheus, as well. So Prometheus meaning like foresight, Epimetheus meaning like aftersight. So Epimetheus was kind of like the one who let's just say wasn't very good at doing stuff. So we don't really get that kind of description of this guy, right? He's a sage, he's wise, uh, he fought against set, right? He is the person who helped free the human soul that was mentioned at the opening of this book. So yes, we get a uh it's it's very much a um like prophet sage kind of character here, who's like hark, hearken, spoke the other, as up ebbel cast into a dark lake, sends ripples to the further shores. Happenings in the unseen world have broken like waves on my slumber. I have marked you well, Conan of Sumeria, and the stamp of mighty happenings and great deeds is upon you. But dooms are loose in the land against which your sword cannot aid you. I love Conan's response. You speak in riddles, let me see my phone, I'll cleave his skull to the teeth. Yes. He's basically saying, like, you know, this this is these are not uh flesh and blood problems, this is a fiend from the outer void and evil magicians, so you need you need some magic help, bro. So the foul presence of Set's neophyte, drunk with terrible power. So So he's saying that your destiny is one with Aquilonia, and basically he's saying a blood mad sorcerer should not stand in the path of imperial destiny. Yeah, Epimetrius doesn't like uh Set or his friends. Right. So Epimetrius puts the strange symbol on his blade, close to the heavy silver guard, glowed like white fire in the shadows, and then everything vanishes, and he wakes up, springs from his couch in his great golden domed chamber. Yeah. And on his sword is the symbol, the outline of a phoenix.

SPEAKER_03 48:54

Which makes sense based on the story's title.

Michael Kentris 48:57

What was it called again, Will? I believe it was called the Phoenix on the Sword. Well, here we are. Yeah. The end. So you know, I kind of wonder the great Golden Domed Chamber, it kind of makes me think of like maybe more like Byzantine Empire, which would maybe make sense as far as like we they had a lot of like kind of northern barbarians as mercenaries, right? Like the Varangian guard and all that kind of stuff. Um where people would travel down from the uh Aesir, Vanaheim type settings to find their fortune in the uh the wealthy southern lands. So just a thought that occurred to me. But so he's standing there in his room, he's awake, he hears a sound, and without stopping to investigate, he begins to don his armor.

SPEAKER_03 49:52

Again he was the barbarian, suspicious and alert as a grey wolf at bay. Chapter five.

Michael Kentris 49:58

Yes. So Book five. What do I know of cultured ways, the guilt, the craft, and the lie? I who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the softest guile, they fail when the broad swords sing. Rush in and die, dogs, I was a man before I was a king. From the Road of Kings. Not the way of kings, that's a different book. That's a different one. Yeah. So So yeah, right. Uh

Assassins Break In And Conan Fights

Michael Kentris 50:23

Conan is a fighter. He is now armored mostly.

SPEAKER_03 50:28

Mostly.

Michael Kentris 50:29

And we switch back to our conspirators. They are sneaking through the palace, right? They've bribed some of the sentries, made some of them drunk, so they're sneaking to his bedchambers essentially to kill him in his sleep. And we get Ronaldo. He's he's such a dope. My blade is thirsty. I hear the gathering of the vultures. On which it's funny, like when they actually get to the fight, because he's obviously he's a poet, not a fighter, and we'll just leave it at that for the moment. But uh he does not account himself well. Right.

SPEAKER_03 51:03

So yeah, they get to the king's bedchambers, and Ascalante has Grommel break down the door, which does lend a little more to the idea that he's at least partially giant.

Michael Kentris 51:15

Maybe he's just he's a big guy. It could be a giant. He's described literally as the giant here. Right, right. But in Death to the Tyrants, they stop short, Conan faced them, not a naked man roused, maze and unarmed out of deep sleep to be butchered like a sheep, but a barbarian, wide awake and at bay, partly armored and with his long sword in his hand. For an instant, the tableau held. I just love this. I just in my head I imagine them like breaking through and there's like and they all freeze, like kind of like over over the top, like leaning backwards. Because we know Conan's a big dangerous dude, also. Yes. So yes. They are again, they were hoping to catch him unawares, and he is very much ready for a fight. Yes. So it's like in, he's 21 to 20, and he has no helmet. The helmet's the the deal breaker. But uh so yeah. Uh basically, he just he starts blasting. So uh in a whistling arc, the Great Blade flashed through the air and crashed on the Bostonian's helmet, blade, and cask shivered together, and Gromel rolled lifeless on the floor. Conan bounded back, still gripping the broken hill. Gromel, he spat, his eyes blazing in amazement. He doesn't know who these guys are, right? He's just he just cutting. He's not sure at the moment. Yeah, he's still puzzled to who everybody is. Right. And so, you know, we get a a pretty uh brutal fight scene, right? We get uh the man's, you know, he's like fighting, throws a dagger, the man's brain spattered in his face. So, you know, as this is going on, it's like the sword's not enough. He jumps to the wall, pulls off an ancient battle axe. So, right, Conan, obviously very good fighter. Yes. And it is funny because uh Ascalante is like, watch the door, fight of you, as if Conan's going to run away from this fight.

SPEAKER_03 53:13

Right. But uh yeah.

Michael Kentris 53:16

The rogues drew back momentarily as their leaders seized several and thrust them towards the single door, and that brief respite, Conan leapt to the wall and tore there from an ancient battle axe, which, untouched by time, had been there, had hung there for half a century. He was no defensive fighter. Even in the teeth of overwhelming odds, he always carried the war to the enemy. Right. Yeah, his barbaric soul was ablaze, and the chants of old heroes were singing his ears. So uh Right, so we get just like this terrible backhand crushed the skull of another, moved in a blur of lightning speed like a tiger among baboons. His axe wove a shining wheel of death about him. I'm skipping over some words just for the sake of, you know, not just reading the entire story. Sure, sure. And then we get Ronaldo, knave, screamed Ronaldo, dashing off his feathered cap, his wild eyes glaring. Do ye shrink from the combat? I like that he's the only one saying like the thou, ye. Yeah. Shall the desperate live out on it? He rushed in, hacking madly, but Conan recognizing him, shattered his sword with a short, terrific chop and with a powerful push of his open hand, sent him reeling to the floor. You know, he keeps cutting, you know, he kills Volmana here, you know, crumples his whole left side with the axe after crushing his armor. And Ronaldo charges in again and he's like, back, I would not slay you. He's like, Die, tyrant, and then you know, he so Ronaldo stabs him and then basically crushes his skull. Yeah. So he's like, you know, he's like, You stupid, you stupid little pup. Right? He's giving him a chance. Yes. It's like, stop it. I I do like his response to when he kills Volmana. Vilmana gasped Conan, I'll know that dwarf in hell. Like, Jesus Christ. Yeah, like I'll see you in hell. Yeah. Yeah. So so he's he's killed quite a few guys so far, you know, probably close to half of them now. Mm-hmm. And uh they're like, get in there, right? He's uh you know, there's only one of them, but there's like he was surrounded by dead bodies. So they talk the men faltered, wild, criminal, and dissolute though they were, yet they came of a breed of man called civilized, with a civilized background. Here was the barbarian, the natural killer. They shrank back. The dying tiger could still deal death. And then Conan's grins, and it's like, who dies first? He mumbled through smashed and bloody lips. So very amusing. Right. So at this moment, we get a fearful scream as a black, misshapen shadow falls across the wall. And

The Demon Attack And The Phoenix Blade

Michael Kentris 55:37

so they basically start to uh raving, blaspheming mobs, scatter through the corridors in screaming flight. So they flee, and we have just Escalante and Conan left behind.

SPEAKER_01 55:46

Mm-hmm.

Michael Kentris 55:47

So he's about to charge at Conan. Um what does he murmured to himself? All seems to be lost, particularly honor, he murmured. However, the king is dying on his feet, and whatever other cogitation might have passed through his mind is not to be known. For leaving the sentence uncompleted, he ran lightly at Conan just as the Sumerian was perforce, employing his axe arm to wipe the blood from his blinded eyes. And just as he was about to, there was a strange rushing in the air and a heavy weight struck terrifically between his shoulders. Writhing desperately beneath his attacker, he twisted his head about instead into the face of nightmare and lunacy. Upon him crouched a great black thing which he knew was born in no sane or human world. Its slavering black fangs were near his throat in the glare of its yellow eyes, shriveled his limbs as a killing wind shrivels young corn.

SPEAKER_03 56:35

Interesting description there.

Michael Kentris 56:36

Yes. I mean it is very Lovecraftian, is it not? This whole like born in no sane or human world, nightmare and lunacy. It's it's very much like kind of this, you know, outer darkness, you know, weeping and gnashing of the teeth kind of situation. Yeah. So so yeah, I thought it uh right. It basically is like burned to ash as commanded, and then uh is killed.

SPEAKER_01 57:06

Yeah.

Michael Kentris 57:06

So it looks like Conan does initially try to fight him with the axe, but again, uh it really doesn't do anything to the creature, and then he gets hurled across the chamber by the impact of of impact of the giant body. Luckily, though, he does recall eventually his broken sword, the one that had the sigil from the Phoenix imprinted on it. Yes. And is able to fend the beasts off with that. Yes. I like this. This is a word that we see Howard use a lot. Instinctively he gripped it and struck with all the power of nerve and few as a man stabs with a dagger. Conan's got fews, and he's not afraid to use them. So nothing. I thought that was I thought that would land. So so yes, he'd been bitten on the arm, right? And his the abhorrent mouth gaped as in agony, he was hurled aside, and watches its struggles cease, jerking spasmodically, staring upward with its grisly, dead eyes. And I I should say, you know, he almost looked in his eyes, he did look in his eyes for a brief moment, and the reality of all the abysmal and blasphemous horrors that lurk in the outer darkness of formless voids and knighted gulfs. Anyway, so yeah, right, uh he overcomes this, this paralyzing fear, and that's when he stabs him in the mouth. Yes. And uh kills this horror. And then uh late to the battle we get basically the rest of his palace staff. We get Publius, his high counselor, wringing his fat hands among the corpses. Black treachery, someone shall dance for this. Call the guard. And uh the commander of the black dragons, Palantides, says, The guard is here, you old fool. So they talk about how he have to bend his wounds, you know, call the doctors. Oh my lord, what a black shame on the city! Are you entirely slain? It's just so amusing. Wine, gasped the king. And so he dranks like a man half dead of thirst. Good. Slain is cursed dry work. I do like this one line. See first of the dagger wound in my side. Uh Ronaldo wrote me a deathly song there, and Keen was the stylus. Oh, I know. Yeah, right. It's just like some of these lines are are pretty good. Uh like this. We should have had we should have hanged him long ago, gibbered Apublius. No good can come of poets. Who is this? Which, you know, it's an interesting phrase, if we may diverge for a moment. Um, Plato kind of wrote the same thing in his Republic, right? That we should uh get rid of the poets because they inflame the passions. Um when he was talking about his Calypolis or the ideal city. Um it's kind of an interesting parallel here. You know, obviously Howard was a somewhat educated fellow. So they find here the body of Escalante, and it's like, what the heck happened to him? Uh why does he stare so? And the king is like, Have you not seen what I saw? And he's like, Where's the monster? You know, and it's like, crumb! The things melted back into the foulness which bore it. The king's delirious. So so yeah, like a cross between a Stigian mummy and a baboon. Uh and I he says, like, I think the sage Epimetrius had a hand in it. And they whisper, hark how he names Epimetrius, dead for fifteen hundred years. And he's like, he carded me in his dreams, and he describes the you know, the area that he was walking and the priest cries out and bids the king be silent. And he's like, uh, who am I to be silenced in my own at your command? So but he leans in and whispers like only the inner circle of the priest craft know of the Blackstone corridor, etc. etc. And it's uh basically it's secret, so please don't uh please. Right. And yeah, Conan's basically I cannot say by what magic Epamuchius brought me to him, but I talked with him and he made a mark on my sword, which apparently is deadly to demons. Uh and that's what ended up killing the horror. Yes. And so they say, Ah, look, on the sword is a secret sign none might make but him, the emblem of the immortal phoenix which broods forever over his tomb. A candle, quick. I mean, then he describes it himself. I mean, come on, guy. Look again at the spot where the king said the goblin died, and they see a like a tangible shadow, a broad dark stain that could not be washed out. The thing had left its outline clearly etched in its blood, and that outline was of no being of a sane and normal world. So that's our first Conan story. It was pretty pretty good, pretty quick read, as most Conan stories are, I think. What are your thoughts, Will?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:50

I I think the thing that I particularly liked here is that there was a lot of sort of character building with Conan to have him be more than just a you know fighter.

Michael Kentris 1:02:02

He's doing some cartography in the beginning there with the maps, he has an appreciation for the arts, he speaks very eloquently, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:13

It's he is not just yeah, a barbarian.

Michael Kentris 1:02:17

Yeah, he's not not a muscle-brown, muscle-bound uh dummy by any stretch.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:22

Yeah.

Michael Kentris 1:02:22

So but yeah, we get yeah, this this flavor, right? We know that and there's things that are hinted at in the past, right? So we know that at one point he was a mercenary for Aquilinia. We know that he spent time in the North in uh Aesir and Vanaheim, which we'll get to in our next story. And uh so yeah, we're getting all these kind of little, you know, nuggets of his past as he's here, and also how he kind of misses his ability to solve a problem with his sword, which he does very handily in uh the final scenes of this story.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:56

Absolutely. Or yeah, or some of your thoughts on on that one.

Michael Kentris 1:03:00

Yeah, I I think it does it does an oppressive amount of world building for our story. I don't know how many pages it is here. I'm on the ebook. But yeah, it's uh it's definitely like we get all these different countries, these different kind of gods and religions and different with different different flavors of these countries, right? So we know you know, like Dark Stigia with like you know, evil magic and rich Aquilania, and then we know, you know, Dark Sumeria and the countries of the north also with some different barbarians. So so we've already gotten a lot of of world building from just this one story. So I think in addition to the character of Conan himself, we also get a picture of the world in which he operates. So I think it's really good. It's a very fast-paced story, which makes sense, right? It would it would have been in a magazine, so it couldn't have been that long. So so I think that uh so yeah, it it was very tightly done, and I I did enjoy it. Like you get you get nightmare horrors, you get plots and conspiracies, you get, you know, a king regretting his path to power, uh, or regret, you know, heavy you know, kind of the heavy is the head that wears a crown, kind of uh, you know, and you get a kind of the the re-emergence of the traits that made him the conquering king that he is. So so yeah, I I thought it had a lot of it, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:25

Mm-hmm.

Michael Kentris 1:04:26

Except one thing, which is romance. Which it might be a bit of a stretch to say that what we have in the next one is romance. But there's definitely let's just say physical seduction. So uh if you're ready, we can move on to our next story.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:40

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

Frost Giant’s Daughter Appears On Ice

Michael Kentris 1:04:42

So we have the frost giant's daughter, and this one is really in kind of an in-media res opening, right? Conan is in the middle of a battle, and we get basically, you know, red beards, golden beards, they're in the ice, they're fighting, bloodstained snow. So it's very much like we're at the end of a battle that Conan is participating in between the Aesir and the Vanaheim. Yes. And do you like this exchange between them? Man, said he, again, addressing as man. Yes. Tell me your name so that my brothers in Vanaheim may know who was the last of Wolfir's band to fall before the sword of Heimdul. Not in Vanaheim, growled the black haired warrior, but in Valhalla will you tell your brothers that you met Conan of Sumeria. Right. Like it's it's it definitely gives the effect of like smack talk, but it's still mildly respectful. Yeah. I mean, this is like very much like from epic poetry tradition, right? Like you would see this in the Iliad a lot where you would have like kind of these two warriors step out from the fray, and they would have basically like a duel in you know, all intents and purposes. I mean, this is this is very typical of that, that kind of like traditional honor culture, at least in epic poetry, whether that happened in real life or not is a different conversation. Sure. But but yeah, it's it's definitely kind of riffing off of that. That tradition there. Like the classic example would be like Achilles and Hector, uh, you know, stepping out by the walls of Troy and you know, trash talking to each other. So yeah, uh it's a very short fight. Conan dispatches him pretty easily, it sounds like here. And then we get uh you know, Conan's standing there, the glare of the sun on the snow cut his eyes like a knife, and the sky seemed shrunken and strangely apart. So he's kind of like there, right? He's in the battlefield, he's like the last one, essentially. Yeah. And all of a sudden he hears a silvery laugh cut through his dizziness and his sight cleared slowly. And uh let's just say this is this is the purple prose that my my wife was talking about. Her body was like ivory to his dazed gaze, and save for a light veil of gossamer, she was naked as the day. So we have a let's just say, sexy lady in the snow, wearing barely anything.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:57

Yes.

Michael Kentris 1:06:58

And so Conan asks, Who are you? Whence come you? What matter? Her voice was more musical than a solar stringed harped, but it was edged with cruelty. And so uh, you know, we get uh he's like, Call up your men. Yet though my strength fail me, they shall not take me alive. I see that you are of the Vanair. She's like, Have I said so? His gaze went again to her unruly locks, which at first glance he had thought to be red. Now he saw they were neither red nor yellow, but a glorious compound of both colours. So we get here a long discourse on her physical attributes, and basically she's she's very pretty. So at least that's uh the description here, right? Yes. As they say here, the as perfect as the dream of a god, Conan's pulse hammered in his temples. So which I get the implication here is that uh red hair is associated with one of these tribes and yellow with the other. And so she's got kind of a mixture here. Strawberry blonde, if you will. But uh so he can't tell which tribe she's from necessarily. Right? And then he says, I cannot tell whether you are of Anaheim and my enemy, or of Asgard and my friend. Blah blah blah. Never have I seen such hair, not even among the fairest daughters of the Aesir, by Ymir, and she responds, Who are you to swear by, Yemir? Right. You who come from the south to adventure among an alien people. By the dark gods of my own race, he cried in anger, though I am not of the golden hair to seer, none has been more forward in swordplay. And he alone, right? We get explicitly here, I alone have survived the field where Wolf here's reavers met the wolves of Bragay. Brachi? So I mean you get this kind of like riddle answer. Uh it's like this crazy lady. And he's like, Where's your village? It's further than you can walk. Basically, Am I not beautiful, O man? He's like, like Don running naked on the snows, he muttered, his eyes burning like those of a wolf. He's like, Then why do you not rise and follow me? Who is a strong warrior who falls down before me? Lie down and dye in the snow with the other fools, Conan of the Black Hair, you cannot follow where I would lead. And so basically, you know, he is like becoming like mesmerized here. He's his passions are, in the traditional sense, inflamed, right? Rage shakes his soul, desire for the taunting figure, hammers his temples, and so he dives at her, and obviously he misses, or also be a very short story. But um, she runs off and he chases after her, essentially. And so we get this like extended chase scene across the frozen tundra.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:30

Yeah. He chases her for a really long time.

unknown 1:09:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:35

Like he is like reference to uh, you know, even though you know it's obviously freezing out and he is passion-inflamed, he's still starting to feel the cold seep through.

Michael Kentris 1:09:50

Yes. I was like, but uh we get a reference back here to Poitaine, which was where Prospero was from in the previous story. The she danced as gaily as if she danced through the palm and rose gardens of Poitaine. Poitaine, Poitain, Poitaine. I don't know. Is it French-ish? Poitaine, Poutine, Poutine? That's in Canada. Anyway, yes. But so I think this this is a very common trope, right? So anyone who's read any like the Brothers Grim or Fairy Tales, or kind of more modern would be like The Witcher. So this is a common trope where we have kind of a Faye or kind of fairy-esque female character who lures a man into a dangerous environment, right? Whether that's into the woods, into a river, like sirens in the ocean, right? Uh nymphs, dryads, all these kinds of things, they lure men to their deaths due to their inability to keep a handle on their lust and their passion. So this is a very common, like uh mythical trope, I would say, that we're tapping into here. I don't know. Did you notice that Will?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:00

Absolutely.

Michael Kentris 1:11:01

Like, like you said, it's just, you know, it's very much a fay type thing, is what I'm familiar with, is the sort of trope where it's like, uh, yeah, we're being we're chasing this fey creature and we are enchanted by it and must have it. And surprise. I will say. Howard inverts this trope, though, right? Because normally the man is killed and he disappears. Sure. That's the end of him, right? So as they're chasing though, we get uh obviously Conan is different. You cannot escape me, he roared. Lead me into a trap and I'll pile the heads of your kids at your feet. Hide from me, and I'll tear apart the mountains to find you. I'll follow you to hell. Love it. Not the typical fairy tale response from these kinds of characters. So, right, we get this description of the environment. Things

The Chase Into Uncanny Northern Lights

Michael Kentris 1:11:53

are changing, right? We get the like the sky is glowing, cracking with strange light, right? It sounds like the aurora. Now frosty blue, now icy crimson, now cold silver. So we get this this idea that he's passing into maybe some sort of enchanted or spirit realm, or you know, not entirely mortal realm, essentially. And he did not wonder at the strange at all, not even when two gigantic figures rose up to bar his way. Right. The scales of their male were white with hoar frost, helmets and axes covered with ice, snow sprinkled their locks, their beards were spikes of icicles, eyes cold as the lights that streamed above them. And so we get so this would be the demise of most mortal men, right here, right? Absolutely. Brothers cried the girl dancing between them. Look who follows, I have brought you a man to slay. Take his heart that we may lay it smoking on our father's board. Fight scene ensues. So yeah, right? This would be the typical ending, right? They're gonna make a sacrifice to their father, Emir, of of Conan's heart. But it does not go that way. Indeed, it does not. What does happen, Will? So yeah, they they raise up their axes to strike at Conan, and he strikes first. So uh on the first one, it sounds like he gets him in the thigh really good. He falls down, and uh the other one does smash him on the shoulder, but he survives a blow thanks to his mail, and then with the remaining giant there, he goes ahead and again fells his ax into into the giant and takes them both out. So half severs his neck here. Yeah. So they're both down, they are dispatched, and Conan wheeled to see the girl standing a short distance away, staring at him in wide-eyed horror, all the mockery gone from her face. Yeah, and uh right, he's he's covered in blood. He's like, Call the rest of your brothers, I'll give their hearts to the wolves. You cannot escape me. So she basically screams and runs away. Yes. Right? And it's funny because you know, this entire time she's been faster than him, and it's still the case here. So I like this description. So she runs,

Conan Slays Frost Giants And Survives

Michael Kentris 1:14:09

he chases. She drew away from him, dwindling in the witch fire of the skies until she was a figure no bigger than a child, then a dancing white flame on the snow, then a dim blur in the distance. But grinding his teeth until the blood started from his gums, he reeled on, and he saw the blur grow to a dancing white flame, and the flame to a figure big as a child. And then she was running less than a hundred paces ahead of him, and slowly the space narrowed foot by foot. Right? And it's like the description about him like grinding his teeth so hard. Like I I have like a sound in mind from like all of these like cartoons and stuff I've seen where it's just like this like it's not a squelching sound, but yeah, just like almost as if like the teeth are about to like get disjointed from their from their like you're taking like a file to stone.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:59

Right, right.

Michael Kentris 1:15:01

So he catches her. And yeah, we get this, right? It's it's a very well let's just say physical scene, right? His fing strong fingers sank deep into her smooth flesh, and that flesh was cold as ice. It was as if he were embraced not a woman of human flesh and blood, but a woman of flaming ice. You know, the thing that comes to my mind when I hear this description is there is a sculpture called the uh the rape of Persephone. If you're familiar with that one, it's where where Hades is kidnapping Persephone and um he is basically grasping her by one of her thighs, and the the sculptor, I think it I want to say it was Bernini. Uh fact check me on that though, Will. Um you can see the fingers pressed into her stone flesh. You've seen this one before, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:15:55

I have, yeah. So yeah, you're right, Bernini.

Michael Kentris 1:15:58

But um But that's what I think of when I hear this description is that that image there. If you if you haven't seen this sculpture, it's a beautiful sculpture. I had the chance to see it in person once. It was it was one of the highlights of my my vacation. But it's uh it's a beautiful piece of work, and this is the image that is in my mind when I read this. What do you think? Is that an accurate uh mental image? I think I think that's very fair, because yeah, uh in this depiction, yeah, Hades is seen as like a very like strong muscular man, and you do see Persephone just like pushing him away as much as she can despite like this vice grip he has on her. Right. So, but yeah, like we get some kind of goofy language here. Uh you're cold as the snows, he mumbled decently. I'll warm you with the fire in my own blood. Very purple. It's almost like this is like romance novels for like young men, uh boys, essentially, right? So she slips away and leaves a single gossamer garment, and she's staring at him, basically naked here, and golden locks in disaway, white bosom heaving, right? It's it's uh it's not a romance novel without heaving bosoms. And then he is frozen by her terrible beauty, and then she calls out, Emir, oh my father, save me. And suddenly her body is enveloped in a cold blue flame, so blinding he has to throw up his hands to shield his eyes, and then she's gone. And then the witch witch lights in the sky flashed and played, the sky's gone mad, rolling thunder's gigantic war chariot rushing behind steeds, whose frantic hooves struck lightning from the snows and echoes from the skies, and suddenly everything reels under his feet, the snowy hills heaved up like a wave, and he crumples into the snow to lie motionless. And uh now we get a little jump in time here. So we find out this is an earthquake, it's shaking him to and fro, and uh we get someone coming. He's coming too. We must rub the frost out of his limbs if he's ever to wield sword again. And they feel like he won't open his left hand, he's clutching something. And he conan opens his eyes. Tall golden haired warriors in male infers. Conan, you live by Krom Newt. Am I alive or are we all dead in Invalhalla? So yeah, this is this is the person, I assume his band of warriors, who's supposed to meet up with Conan earlier in the story. Right, right. So so a lot of them are like they're swearing by Emir, and someone says, like, swear not so often by Emir, this is his land, and the god bides among yonder mountains, the legends say. So Conan relays his tale of seeing a woman, and a strange madness fell upon me, which sounds accurate to the story.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:27

Yes.

Michael Kentris 1:18:28

Did you n cause they were following his spore or tracks, if you will. I tend to think of spore as like poop, but uh I guess it can be footprints too. It's like, did you not find her tracks or the giants which I slew? And they found only his, and he's like, it may be that I am mad. Someone says he's delirious, and an old man says, Not so. It was Atali, the daughter of Amir, the frost giant. To feels of the dead she comes and shows herself to the dying. So he tells a story about how he saw the same thing when he was a child. But he was too weak to follow after her. Right, and I do appreciate like Bah old Gorm's mind was touched in his youth by a sword cut on the head, and Conan was delirious from the fury of battle. Look how his helmet is dented. Any of those bows might have battled his brain. It was an hallucination he falled into the wastes. He is from the south. What does he know of a toll? And he's like, You speak truth, perhaps, muttered Conan. It was all strange and weird by Crom. He broke off, glaring at the object that still dangles from his clenched left fist. The others gaped silently at the veil he held up. A wisp of gossamer that was never spun by human distaff.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:39

Physical evidence.

Michael Kentris 1:19:41

Yeah. So so yeah. Uh you know, very short story. Yeah. Uh very action-packed. What do you think? So yeah, definitely not as engaging as the Phoenix on the sword, but I still enjoy it a lot. There was like a lot of really good uh descriptive verbiage used in here as he's kind of like enra like almost like this barbarian enraged as he's chasing after this Faye figure. Yeah. Definitely a kind of a exemplar of the man succumbing to lust and madness from an otherworldly creature. But it was a nice inversion, right? In as much as instead of being slain, Conan slew the ambushers. So definitely an inversion of what we normally see. And then you get that last part where she invokes, you know, the power of her father, the snow giant Emir, and like things just go crazy. So uh definitely a lot of weird, otherworldly kind of stuff here. And I think that just kind of emphasizes what we said earlier in our conversation, where like sword and sorcery, magic is not to be trusted. It is dangerous and it is mysterious, unknowable to the average person.

Next Reads And How To Reach Us

Michael Kentris 1:20:54

Absolutely. So those are our first two stories, and coming up, I think we're gonna do probably two at a time going forward. I think that's fair. Probably. As long as you're not too short. Two to three. We'll decide. Because we did the introduction this time, too. Yes. But I have read the next few before, and uh the next two that are up are the god and the bull and the tower of the elephant, and at least out of the ones that I've read so far, these are two of my favorite. So I'm really looking forward to talking about them next time we record. And hopefully our listeners enjoyed this as well. Do you enjoy Sword and Sorcery? Let us know in the comments. Leave a review, send us an email. You can always find us. Our website, brothersreadingbooks.com, emails at brothersreadingbooks at gmail.com. You can find us on Twitter at Brothers Reading. Anything I'm forgetting? Leave us a five star review wherever you're uh consuming your podcasts. Leave us a review, comment, you know, let us know. How are things going? You doing all right? Will, any final thoughts? Should we stay the course or turn back? It's too late for that. These are prerecorded. But we can always course correct. Yeah. So uh maybe if we get enough of uh people listening to this, we'll do some live QA's or something. I don't know, that'd be fun. Don't know they'd be good answers, but uh they would be our answers. So thank you as always for listening to the end, and uh, we hope to hear from you, and we'll talk to you next time as we continue our adventures with Conan the Barbarian.