🎙️ Episode 9: Don’t Just Sell Stuff – Tell Stories

The one we recorded in the car on a stupuidly hot day! Phew!

Sales doesn’t have to be icky. We talk about how storytelling, soul and personal truth can bring in the right clients without the sleaze.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome to Autumn Layoff Topic, the podcast that refuses to stay in its lane. We're after and at ex-journalists, now coaches, creators and chaos embracing business owners. Each episode will dive into the world of books, branding, visibility, content, business, and wherever else our ADHD brains take us. This is unfiltered, unscripted, occasionally unhinged, and totally out.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

So, episode nine, and just to prove that you can really do these podcasts on the fly, we told you we'd take you on this, oh god, J word, journey with us. We are recording this episode in the car. We've got the laptop on my lap. We're still on my car's talking to us. That's the car turning itself off. We've got my laptop on my lap. We've got the blue snowball microphone still rigged up on the dash because the lapel mics hadn't charged up enough yet. The office we'd hired has just closed, so we are doing episode nine in our car.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

In a very warm car, even though we've had the air conditioning on because it's quite it's about 26 degrees today. It's really warm.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

So anyway, um we're talking today about the power of telling stories rather than just selling stuff. So, you know, we've just been telling you the story of of podcasting from a car on a very hot day, and we don't open the windows because then we'll pick up traffic noise. So we're just gonna see how this goes.

SPEAKER_01 1:27

We're just gonna bake nicely in the next kind of 20 minutes or so, I guess. We are gonna be properly properly baked. That's cool. A ruddy complexion.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

I think we've already got that. We're gonna be nearly as red as when we ran up to the almost the top row of the football at Leicester City a few weeks back to watch the interview.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

I was just happy to be there. Come on, girls, we're gonna win on Sunday. I'm uh I'm dating it now because it's semi it's final on Sunday, and today is Friday. Yeah, by the time this comes out, of course, we'll have already won. We will do. We're manifesting that. I hope so.

SPEAKER_00 1:57

We're gonna look a bit silly. I know. I'm not gonna record. We are not recording two versions just in case. That just shows our faith in our lionesses. But we still in Serena we trust and we like to trust whatever happens. Anyway, so this is about telling stories to sell. So Ash, this is gonna be a lot of this is your bag again. So I know I'm big on sales, I've done all kinds of sales training, I've I've backed up sales teams for all kinds of publishing projects. I've I've I've trained people in sales, but this is about the power of stories over and above pitches. Is that there's that old line, isn't the facts tell stories sell?

SPEAKER_01 2:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

But this is back to connection beating conversion again, isn't it? This this connection beats conversion tactics every time. What can you tell us about that?

SPEAKER_01 2:47

Connection happens when you are able to tell a story in a way that absolutely gets into the kind of psyche, into the feeling the heart of that audience of the person that you're talking to. You feel it, you sense it, you can imagine it, you can be in that space with them. But you know, it's almost like holding hands with you with your client, your potential clients, and actually showing them look at this, this is this is what I'm sharing with you today. I think it's that I talked about it in another podcast about you know the power of doing this in your books when you're writing a book, but also in your content. You know, sometimes something as simple as in your storytelling is to change the tense, change it from a pr a past tense to a present tense. So you take the reader into the story with you in that moment, in that present tense, so you are there together in that moment. That's really powerful, and there's nothing to do with selling there, you're selling your story if you want to use the selling word, but actually, what you're doing is you're letting people in to see how your mind works, your experiences, your experience, all of that it's bringing it all together in a story in a way that is um powerful, but without being too pushy on the sales front. I mean, I'm I'm not, you know, I know the importance of selling, I'm not the best salesperson. I know I need more training on that. You laugh, I've undone so many sales opportunities over the years. Taz has been sitting there wanting to kind of verbally strangle me. I know, so I've learned a lot since then, that's a bit learned quite a bit since then. But for me, you know, the two work beautifully, but you have the power of story cannot be underestimated. Um, and when we allow people into our world through the power of story and content, it can make such a difference to not just our sales in that moment in that next week or after you've posted a you know something on social, but for weeks, months to come, the number of times I've seen clients when I've coached them and worked with them on their content, they've gone out, they've shared something, they've they've written something or created something in video format or audio, they've forgotten all about it. But six months down the line, they might have somebody coming to them saying, I remember when you wrote about that or you said about that, and you took that really connected with me. People will remember that how you made them feel. We always go on about that again, a bit of a cliche, but how you make people feel if you can get into that, that's absolutely golden nuggets for your business.

SPEAKER_00 5:15

Yeah, it's allowing people to feel heard as well. I tell that a lot in when I'm when I'm teaching people about sales, that one of the most powerful things you can do, if not the most powerful thing you can do, is enable somebody to feel heard. So if you're listening to this, think about it. When was the last time you genuinely felt 100% heard, like someone was giving you all of their attention and really taking in whatever it was you were saying? You know, for a lot of people, if you can get them into that zone where they feel that you're really listening to them and taking everything on board, it could be the first time they've ever felt that, and people will come back for that again and again and again. And even if the product that you sell isn't something they want, then they will become your biggest advocate and recommend you again and again and again. And it doesn't have to be about directly selling your thang. So, for instance, I delivered a talk not too long back where I talked about my my mic drop model, and I talked about using the power of story to really tap into the heart of your old audience and to get them hanging on your every word, and I was teaching people how to use the stage and how to really own the room. And I told a story with some some real ups and downs. I told the story of of Thea, our Labrador and Freya, our cat who we we lost to to Cancer within weeks of each other, and all the fallout afterwards that I touched on in one of these earlier episodes. And I reckon I mean I couldn't see them because the the the the floor lights were really in my eyes, but from the feedback afterwards, I reckon about 90% of that room, if not everybody, was in tears through parts of that. And it wasn't about selling them something, it was about using a demonstration of a model to show them how the model could work, and even you know, I did the QR code thing afterwards, but that wasn't to buy something, it was to give them a step-by-step guide into how to use that model and how to tell their own story in that way, because I acknowledged that a lot of them by the time I'd finished would be still really in the emotion, which is exactly how that model works, and I wasn't selling anything, but guess how many people came and asked me where my next speaker training workshop was afterwards and how they could get on it. Yeah, by the time we walked out of that, we were more than half full, and it's not till next May. So um it's really powerful. Again, it's stories and demonstrations rather than buy my stuff. The other thing I would say is that if you show up power fully, use your personal brand, if you serve regularly through the power of story, when you do need to blatantly sell something, people will be far more likely to listen, to trust you, to be part of your tribe, and to then be ready to buy. So that's that those your real life moments, if you can tell them in the right way, are the the marketing gold, aren't they?

SPEAKER_01 8:16

And it's also about that. I always talk about light and shade in everything. So life is light and shade, right? So the same with your content, you know. If you go and see a speaker, for me, the best speakers that leave an impression on me that I remember beyond it, and I've seen many speakers over the years, are the ones that are able to flex their style, but not flex their style in terms of right, I'm gonna deliver this at this point in the stone, I'm gonna do that. That way it's kind of robotic almost. It's about taking me into the emotion of that tougher time for them, that challenge, and then bringing me out the other side of it with a sense of okay, yeah, I can relate to that. That means if they've done that, I could do that too. So it's that light and shade bringing that into your content, you know, not just being on you know, that one-trick pony of I'm gonna make them feel so sad, and you you could have you could have done that with your talk when you brought the the animals in, but you didn't, you brought them out of there with that hope and possibility, always leave people in the place of possibility, how you grew and how other people can grow, you know, in that way too. And and and it was really powerful. So I think that's the thing, not to leave people in that one shady dark spot, but actually bring them out the other side of that. So that's important too. So light and shady in your content, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 9:24

I think the other thing that's worth bearing in mind when it comes to stories and selling is when you think of some of the the adverts, or again for American friends, the the the commercial breaks or the messages, um, think of how many people use storytelling well. So the one that always pops up for me is is mini. So the the series of of TV adverts and cinema cinema adverts that showed kind of mini through the and through the ages that always ended in a mini adventure. And they weren't directly saying buy my mini, they were displaying the experience of being a mini owner or of wanting a mini, the adventures that happened, the big adventures that happened in a tiny car. And you think about that, there are so many compact cars out there, but how many people want I don't know, one of those little bubble cari citron things as opposed to how many people would like a mini. And that's not there's anything wrong with the bubble cari citron things, but how many people genuinely want a mini, although the Fiat's I'm thinking of, the little Fiat cars. Nothing wrong with them, they're great cars, but you know, the I had a small car before my minis, I had a Citron DS in bright yellow, and I loved it, but I still recognised that it was a rough step up when I went to a mini. And the first mini I had wasn't a particularly new mini. Now I'm on a top-of-the-line mini, I absolutely love it, and now it would take a lot to move me away from a mini. And some of that has got to be the story in the marketing. And the other one I tell all the time is Apple and Android. You know, we most of us who are vague, vaguely techie will begrudgingly admit, if you're an iPhone user, that the tech on Android phones is usually quite a way ahead of Apple. So why is it that we will pay through the nose for an iPhone and queue round the block for an iPhone in a way that we just won't for an Android? Why is that? It's story, it's marketing, it's PR. It's Steve Jobs, even how many years after he's after he's died? It's the story of Apple, it's the brand. So whatever you're putting out there, you need to be Apple and not Android.

SPEAKER_01 11:39

Yeah, I love that. And I love the thing with Mini because it sells you that experience, but in a way that isn't doesn't feel like selling, it's just sharing a story with somebody that kind of gets it or can get to that point where they understand it and say that that one that's me. I want to be like that, I want to do that in that way. I can relate to that, it makes it relatable. There's that R word again, but it's a fabulous word, relatability. Yeah, but you know, relatability in our marketing and our storytelling is so important, and sometimes we can get it right, sometimes we can get it horribly wrong. Can you think of any things where you've kind of got it a bit wrong?

SPEAKER_00 12:10

Or I can think of quite a big corporate group that got it wrong quite a few years ago.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

Because I'm opening the the door a bit because I'm overheating.

SPEAKER_00 12:17

It is like a sauna sauna in here. So if we have background road noises, it's because we're sitting in a in a car-shaped sauna.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

You know what will happen in a minute? There'll be a police car coming along and break open our door to let us out like a canine computer.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

Or the laptop will overheat.

SPEAKER_01 12:32

Yes, the fans just come on, so they.

SPEAKER_00 12:34

We're taking you on the entire journey with us. We are. Um I can't think many, many years ago, and I'm not gonna name the company, um, but when I was in veterinary publishing, one of the big veterinary brands released a calendar, and on each page there was a different dog poo. Okay, and it just did not go down well at all. They thought it was gonna be quirky and viral, and it absolutely tanged chance. Absolutely tanked. Well, think about relevance thing things like worming products and it tanked. Yeah. And there's another one, and I'm never sure. You didn't say it was shit, because that would be good, wouldn't it?

SPEAKER_01 13:16

Sorry, I couldn't.

SPEAKER_00 13:19

I thought it was quite funny, but so many people found it really offensive. Okay. Um, there's another one, and I I am never quite sure whether this is an urban myth. It was told to me as fact, but I I'm never 100% sure if it was correct, and it's many, many years ago now. We're talking kind of 90s, and there was a police campaign that was aimed at bringing in more bringing more women into the police force. Okay. And they were playing on the there we go. So anybody hear that explosion in the background outside? We're sitting opposite an industrial unit, I think that was something been dropped from a forklift. Yeah. Um they were trying to play up on the the height difference between PCs and WPCs. And the way I was told it, the slogan was the only difference between a PC and a WPC is six inches. But apparently somebody pulled it at the last minute because of the way it could be misconstrued. I don't know if it's true, but I really, really hope it is. If you know it's not true, don't tell me, don't destroy it for me. I love that. And of course there's the hashtag fails as well. Oh yeah. You know, Susan Album Party, yeah, for instance. Yes. And I know that the people who ran, was it Cheltenham Literary Festival swore blind that they didn't do do C lit fest? Yes. But hey, I like to smile either way. But back to stories, stories that sell. Um, can you think, Ashworth, about when you've told those those real life moments that turn into marketing gold? Can you think about when you've used anything like that?

SPEAKER_01 14:56

I've got a lot of interest and a lot of feedback from I was talking in one of the earlier podcasts about my MS diagnosis, but when flipping those negatives that you talk about a lot. Yeah, flipping negatives. When I went over to meet with a consultant and got a fit of the giggles when because he just didn't get the joke, which made it even worse. And it was I won't go into the great details of the story, but that I got so much feedback from that in many ways, from people that I hadn't met before that I didn't know at all, and they just said for a start, I don't know, I didn't know that you you know you you'd got the diagnosis, and also what was that like in that waiting room? Because what I did there was there's a great example of where I took people into the waiting room with us, you know, when we went there, and it was wasn't it? It was a packed waiting room, lots of people waiting for you know, not necessarily great news that day, and it was a real but we ended up you can tell the story better than me.

SPEAKER_00 15:45

I don't know how we'll be able to convey it through audio. So essentially, um, the consultant sat out opposite Ash and he was trying to test her coordination, and he took his finger and put it onto the tip of his nose and said, I want you to do this. So Ash reached out and put her finger on the tip of his nose. Works better with the physical demonstration. It does. And the other my other favourite one like that is when you went to the opticians. And you know that the machine you look into and you look you look at the hot air balloon and the the different dots, and they're they're checking your eye pressure and different parts of your eye. So Ash sat um, I I happened to be in the room with her because I think I think I was chauffeuring you that day. And she'd been told she needed to look for a green dot. And she said, I can see it, I can see the green dot. And the optician just looked at her as if she'd got three heads. She said, I beg your pardon. She said, and Ash said again, I can see that I can see the green dot. And she looked through and she said, Mrs. Clearwater, that the the machine is not turned on. So Ash looked through again, she said, Well, I can see the green dot. And then the consultant had this moment of realisation and said, Miss Clearwater, that's my eye. But it's being able to tell these silly stories, and we we spoke earlier in an earlier episode about the the shit my wife says hashtag. Yeah, but so many people have requested a book. So when you create that, there's a queue of people ready to buy it. And we spoke earlier about you know the post I put out um only fused a few days back as we're recording this, where I talked about having an unexpected bill, needing to put some money together, and so therefore I'd put together this dossier of awesome business tools that are all digital and you could download them. And you know, within the space of a couple of days, it'd probably be nearly two grand. And I'm talking on an expenditure of like between 29 and 89 quid plus that. So it's the story, it's not look at these things you can buy. Yeah, what sold that is they trusted me, and I went, I need your help. If you want these tools, here you go.

SPEAKER_01 17:46

I see that a lot, you know, and again going back, I know we've touched on networking before, but when I've been into business meetings and networking, whether it's you know talking to somebody about their content or it's chatting with somebody in a networking meeting, talking about the potential book. Well, we end up we get caught in all the products and services, but we don't give the background. Sometimes it could be the the really wacky or quirky idea that you that thing that happened that led to you coming up with that idea. So I'm just trying to think if we've got any examples of that. Have we got any examples of that where we've just had something's happened and we've gone, now that'd be a good product, a good service. There's bound to be if we I know I'm putting us on the spot right at this moment because we're on a podcast and we're trying to come up and we're very warm. But you know, those moments where look back, track back to where you came up with that product or service. How did that come about? Have you told that story or the story before that? You know, the person you met that started that little journey journey. There's the word again tell us journey for you in that way. Go back, take it back.

SPEAKER_00 18:40

Okay, there's a car in the car park just driving off. So Project Artemis is a programme I've been running for I don't know, four or five years now, I think something like that, and it's a really exclusive programme, so much so that for ages it hasn't been on my website, it's been invite only, and it's where I invite up to not always but up to six coaches per year to work with me in a small intensive group setting through Zoom, so you can be anywhere in the world to learn from me and everything I did to build a successful coaching practice. And we teach you everything from personal brand to product creation to sales and onboarding, everything that they need. It's like sticking to to knit my mote Brad Burton's quotes, like sticking a USB plug into my head and feeding it into them. Um, and that whole programme actually downloaded one morning. I was sitting on an exercise bike at home, and this idea just dropped in. And before it was even fully formed, while I was still on the exercise bike, had got onto LinkedIn and said, I'm gonna be running this, this is who I'm looking for, this is what it's gonna do. The details aren't all clear yet, but this is what's happening, and it sold out. And I told the story behind that, and I now use that as a story to help people recognise that they shouldn't just sit on ideas because how many of us sit on ideas and then get really pissed off when 18 months down the line somebody else goes and comes up with our ideas, yeah. But we sit on them. That was one of those moments where the idea dropped in, and within 20 minutes of the idea dropping in, I'd created a product and and stuck it out there and it sold and it worked and it's still going now.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

Yeah, so don't be afraid to do that. So your storytelling can come from really unlikely sources, but just be prepared to go there with it. Go, that's a little bit quirky. Is that gonna is that my target? Who's gonna be interested in that? You might be surprised. The number of times I've been at events and I've shared something really random with somebody, and then somehow it's taken me back, somehow it's linked to what I do now, and it'll be like, Well, that's how I came up with that idea. This is what happened, and suddenly you've got somebody that okay, it might not be an instant sale, but three months down the line, six weeks down the line, a year down the line. Actually, I think my record's about two and a bit years, two and a half years that somebody's come. It might be a slow burn, but sometimes those slow burns are the best kind of sales because they can lead to prolonged business and longer-term, you know, um, relationships with that customer that go on and on and they keep coming back.

SPEAKER_00 21:07

It's about keeping it real, isn't it? You know, stories do create trust. We've talked earlier about showing up and being real and that creating trust, and people don't want a guru, they want a human being, you know. And if that human being happens to have loads of information and loads of stuff they can help them with, great, but it's the tribe that would refer to them as a guru. Somebody calls themselves a guru, and it's a red flag for me straight away. People want real, that's what matters more than anything, and it also doesn't have to be a big happy story. So we touched earlier earlier on the story of Thea and Freya, our dog and our cat, and how I used that um in storytelling not too long ago at an event. But also, in another one, we talked about negative book reviews. Now, my first book, Whispers from the Earth, uh card just next to us going. We are keeping it.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

They know what it is, Tom.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

In the moment. In the moment.

SPEAKER_01 22:05

Anybody else think that might be a diesel, judging by the the noise of the engine? Yeah, but sneak. I'm gonna wait and see what it's like.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

One day we can talk about the story of being able to podcast anywhere, recording a podcast from our car, and when we progress from here to get into the point where we sell programmes on how to do a podcast from anywhere, we can tell this story. You see, that can work. Um yeah, I've got some by and large beautiful reviews on Whispers from the Earth on on Amazon. But there are a door shutting. There are a handful of really shitty reviews. And rather than try and hide them, every now and then I dig them out and turn them into a story. And I do a carousel of negative reviews and kind of do a come and see what all the fuss is about, come and see what everybody hates. And nine times out of ten, loads of people laugh at it, talk about how much they love that book, and every time it gets more sales. You know, there's that that um that photo that turns up of the coffee shop sign every now and then, isn't it? I'll come and taste the worst coffee in Brooklyn or whatever it was. So yeah, the car's gone, you can open the door. Oh thank you. Oh, you can breathe again! You you don't, it doesn't have to be a perfect story. You can take a negative and turn it into a story and still sell off the back of it. I talk about sometimes um the first time I ever did a firewalk and how I burnt my feet to a crisp, and I sometimes talk about that story at the same time as selling in air quotes myself as an extreme empowerment coach, which includes firewalking. Talk about how something's done badly and how you learn to do it better. That's a story too. But whatever it is you're doing, um remember that it's always a good idea if you can to let the story do the heavy lifting rather than you having to put loads of effort in. If you get this right and your story resonates with the right people, then they're gonna reach out in the same way that I'm when I'm teaching speaking speaker training. Um I teach people to not sell from stage. Now lots of people teach how to sell from stage. I hate selling from stage. For me, if you do a good job and you touch people in the right way and you connect with people, those who are interested in working with you will reach out. And I think it's the same with storytelling. That doesn't mean you shouldn't sell. If you're gonna sell, be blatant, but make sure you've done enough service-led storytelling at either side for people to trust in you, believe in you, want to become part of your tribe and be ready to buy from you. Sometimes the story does the selling, sometimes the story builds the trust so that when you sell, people buy easily and enjoy the process.

SPEAKER_01 24:53

Fabulous and absolute flying the flag for storytelling. Get out there, when were you last? Telling a story. Look for something in your business, your per your personal life, where the two go together very often, you know. Particularly if you work for yourself, is you know, look at what you've got going on in your life right now or what's been happening, you know. Look around the story within the story of your product and service. What aren't you telling at the moment? Have a go at doing something a bit differently, you know, put something out on a social channel that maybe you wouldn't normally use. Build trust you so much, build that.

SPEAKER_00 25:21

Relatability, build trust.

SPEAKER_01 25:23

Show a little bit of that vulnerability again, which is doesn't go you know down too too badly at all. It can really work in your favour. You can use it in the right way, yeah. So just go back over stuff, even look at things that you've already posted and look at it and look at it from another angle and think, how could I tell this story slightly differently? Maybe give a little bit more of me in that story, and that way it's still selling. I often think when you were saying about that earlier, I think sometimes it's we go for that. Let's talk about our products and services because it's a comfort zone thing, yeah. Because then we can hide behind it, yeah, but also, particularly if it's on stage and we're trying to sell something in while we're on that stage, we've got the platform, we've got the audience in front of us. I think sometimes because we want a quick fix and win. Sometimes the biggest wins, and I said this earlier, touched on it earlier, alluded to that, is something that it takes is a oh hello, waspy. Hello, we have a wasp in the car. And now it's gone, it's gone. Um, that we have sometimes it's something that takes a while to brew, yeah, takes a while to build, and it might be, as I said, several months down the line, but that often can lead to a longer term plan with that particular partner or business that you're gonna work with. It doesn't, it's not a one-trick poly, it's not a one-hit. You can go on and work with them longer term. I like that, and some I don't know about you, but that's certainly what's worked for me.

SPEAKER_00 26:36

Yeah, I think so. Just tell the stories and remember the stories themselves don't have to necessarily be the sales, the stories are what pull people into your world and make them eager to buy when you have the product ready. And that's something again, which is another episode for another day. But you have to build your tribe before you build your products. You cannot have a party without people. Build your tribe, build your tribe, build your tribe, show up, serve, give value. Get out of bed every morning, not thinking how can I sell today, but how and who can I serve today, and that will reap reward rewards long term. So, shall we wrap it there, given that we are really in a sauna now? I suspect that since we started this podcast, we both lost about dropped about six dress sizes.

SPEAKER_01 27:18

I like that, so that's good. That and the gym today, we've had a really good day. I'm gonna completely ignore the fact that I've eaten two ginger cookies today. They were very good with a cup of cookies. Well how much they've bloated me. Have they? Yeah, haven't they? I think I can't tell the difference on one bloated and one just I've got a proper food, baby. I suspect it's a gas baby. But yeah, I think I think uh it was it's so hot in here that even the wasp left, it came in and then buzzed off.

SPEAKER_00 27:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

Bad jokes. I think it's Friday night. We've had a long week, we should stop now.

SPEAKER_00 27:46

I think while we're behind. Yeah, that joke had a real sting in the tail.

SPEAKER_01 27:49

Oh god, let's be gone.

SPEAKER_00 27:50

You've definitely earned your stripes for bad jokes.

SPEAKER_01 27:53

That's enough now. Let's just now end.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

Okay, people, if you've loved what we've said today, if you've got any questions.

SPEAKER_01 27:59

Maybe you haven't. If you haven't loved what we said, if you think it's a load of old BS, tell us about that as well. Or don't! We can take it, we can take it. Tell us what you want as well. We might throw it back over there, but we'll take it.

SPEAKER_00 28:09

Tell us what you want to be talking us to be talking about so that we can tell a story about it later and we can build it into this podcast. So um find us on socials Taz Thornton, Asher Clearwater. And until next time, we will see you next Tuesday. You've been listening to Awesomely Off Topic with Taz Thornton and Asha Clearwater. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure you follow or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. And if you want to connect, you'll find us online. Just search for our names. Stay awesome, stay off topic, and we'll see you next time.