🎙️ S2 Episode 6: The Longest Unlearn

Some beliefs don’t just sit in your head, they invoice you every day. We’re talking about the “truths” we inherited from family, school, workplaces, and culture, then carried for years without checking the evidence. The big one? That low, sticky story of “I’m not good enough”, how it shows up as rejecting compliments, feeling like the odd one out, and slipping into self-criticism when we’re overtired or burnt out.

We zoom out into money mindset and business growth, because scarcity thinking doesn’t stop at your bank balance, it shapes what you think you’re allowed to earn. We dig into classic money myths, the guilt around freedom when you’re self-employed, and the employee mindset that keeps entrepreneurs stuck in timekeeping shame, admin avoidance, and undercharging. We also talk about status symbols and visibility, including how looking “too successful” can trigger judgement, and why chasing the optics can quietly wreck cashflow.

Then we get honest about bias and belonging: accents, class stories, inverted snobbery, and the way exposure to new rooms can force real unlearning. We unpack the fear around VAT registration in the UK, why “earning more will kill your business” is a myth, and what actually matters: systems, preparation, and not treating the extra 20% as yours. We finish with a line we want you to steal: you don’t have to keep lying in the bed you made. If it no longer serves you, burn it and build something better. 

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Which belief are you ready to unlearn next?

Transcript

Welcome And Big Question

SPEAKER_01 0:00

You're listening to Awesomely Off Topic, booked round business, and everything else we're not supposed to say out loud. I'm Tad and Asher. Now let's get into it. Welcome to another episode of Awesomely Off Topic. We can't wait to dig into this with you today. We're talking about what it took us the longest to unlearn. So Asher.

SPEAKER_02 0:22

Yes, Tad. Hello everybody. Hello.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

What is it?

SPEAKER_02 0:25

Saying hello to everybody as well as you.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

You won't say hello to me then. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 0:28

Well, we've been in the room all day together. We have, actually, to be fair. So Hello. Hello.

Unlearning “I’m Not Good Enough”

SPEAKER_01 0:33

Are you doing? Oh dear. So Asher. Start as we mean to go on. What is the thing that you that took you the longest to realise wasn't actually true? And you're not allowed to say Father Christmas.

SPEAKER_02 0:50

That I'm not good enough.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

Wow. That's quite a big one, isn't it? That's massive. When did you realise that it wasn't true that you weren't good enough, Asher?

SPEAKER_02 0:59

Um when I started getting some nice feedback from clients on what I do. And also at school when I started to get in certain topics, that subjects that were my favourite and I got some good feedback. But that's the that's a long-running thing for me. Still, I can still have those thoughts, don't we all though? Don't we all? At times?

SPEAKER_01 1:17

Yeah, but I think you have them perhaps more than the average bear. You're smarter than the average bear.

SPEAKER_02 1:25

Exactly. What are you doing? It's a day for voices today. Yeah, I suppose I do.

SPEAKER_01 1:29

But I just think It's also a day for confusing our younger listeners again.

SPEAKER_02 1:33

Again, yet again we should have a lot of things. That was Yogi Bear, in case of worrying bear, amazing. Yeah, so I think I've always had that. And occasionally it'll come back, it's my nemesis. So I have to remind myself of that of all the good stuff that I've done and the good feedback I've had, which is quite a lot, really, over the years. And I've been here. Half a century plus.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

Yeah, and we need to remind remind you of that regularly because it's you do still fairly regularly think you're not good enough.

SPEAKER_02 1:59

Yeah. It's so ingrained, and I have to really have a word with myself to tell myself that isn't the case. You know, and my favourite saying at the moment, certainly from some of the therapy counselling I've been doing, is where's your evidence?

SPEAKER_01 2:10

And it's not just good enough, is it? Because you'll go to, I'm not I'm not attractive enough, I'm not slim enough, I'm not clever enough, I feel like the odd one out in a group full of people.

SPEAKER_02 2:21

Yeah, I think that's a lot to do with being on the spectrum. For me, with that one about not fitting in, always feeling like you're you know, square pegging around hole, etc. Yeah. I think that's where that comes from. And that's why that comes with a load of different things that I've got in the habit of saying about myself. So I try and catch myself and I think I do more now. But on a bad day, and I can have those bad days, you know, I will still say it occasionally. So, and I know you're if you're around, you're always tell me not to say it. And as soon as I've done it, you know, I'll go, oh, I've done it again, I've gone into an old pattern.

unknown 2:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:53

So I feel like I'm constantly trying to lift you up and remind you of how gorgeous I think you are and how bloody brilliant you are at your work and how smart you are. And yet you you run yourself down so much. I d I'm not sure how I could fit more mood lifters or compliments or reassurances of the day.

SPEAKER_02 3:10

I really appreciate it. And it really lifts me for a while, but then it's just it's a it's a habit, isn't it? It's not anything if it's a habit of of thinking that about yourself. Yeah, and to drill you on that a little bit. Okay, uh-oh, here we go.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

You open this door, you opened this particular box of frogs.

SPEAKER_02 3:26

Well, I'm just gonna say a little light statement, and then I've really dropped myself in the doo-doo. A kettle of fish, not a box of frogs. Why did I say box of frogs? No, no, I didn't even notice you said box of frogs. I said a kettle of fish, but there you go. Either one does not sound right. I'm sorry, we're in the middle of National Pet Month when we record this. So anything where I think it could be any harm to any animals anytime, would I?

SPEAKER_01 3:48

You neither have frogs in a box or box with frogs. Anyway, what I was gonna say is the challenge for that one is you will very, very often hit back and argue with me. So if I say you look lovely, or you're really good at that, or I love the way you've written this, you'll go, No, I'm not. No, I don't. Oh, it's alright. You'll you'll argue with it, you push back on it a lot.

SPEAKER_02 4:15

So I think it's almost that inherent thought, belief, that actually I'll get in there before somebody else does. Which is really awful, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 4:24

But you started this off by saying that you had unlearned the idea that you weren't good enough.

SPEAKER_02 4:31

Did I?

unknown 4:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:32

Or maybe I.

SPEAKER_01 4:33

When I said to you, what's the thing that took you the longest to realise wasn't actually true? And you said that you were.

SPEAKER_02 4:38

Yeah, but I still do it, but I don't do it as often, and when I do, I've got some of the I've got the tools now to be able to say, hang on a minute, where's your evidence for that?

SPEAKER_01 4:45

So why are you still doing it?

SPEAKER_02 4:48

It's habit. It's habit, it's an old really ingrained habit, and I'm working at changing the habit. But it takes a while. And sometimes it'll usually when I'm tired. If I'm tired, you know that if I'm wound, if I'm, you know, I'm trying to wind down and I'm tired and I'm busy and you know, and I've not had much sleep, etc. etc. Then that's usually when that's an old default setting I go automatically back to. That's one of my signs where it's like, right, time now to step away from the screen, go and have a walk in fresh air, and then have a nice nap. Because otherwise I can just go in that, down that rabbit hole and keep on digging.

SPEAKER_01 5:21

It's fascinating, isn't it? Because because I I say this a lot and it's not blowing smoke. You are genuinely one of the most talented people I've I've ever met. You are brilliant at what you do, you're fabulous at your craft, and yet you don't see it in the same way that you know Stans stands to reason. I shouldn't need to say it, that I think you're absolutely bloody gorgeous. Keep going, Taz, keep going. I'm liking this podcast. You don't see the same. I wish some days I could just kind of take a snapshot with my eyeballs and give it to you and let you see yourself as I see you, and as just as so many other people see you.

SPEAKER_02 5:55

Well, did so for you. I'd say the same for you, because you also have that. And sometimes, if we're not careful, one can tip the other into that, and we can get caught in that quagmire, if you like, of you know, self self-criticism and you know going downward in terms of our you know, our confidence, etc., and our belief.

SPEAKER_01 6:14

Yeah, low confidence definitely comes with being overtired for me and feeling burned out, without a doubt. Yeah. Without a doubt. So we'd better move on all this. This podcast has taken a strange turn. Already, and we're right into a rabbit hole. I know. I've seen Alice, I've seen a caterpillar, I've seen some. You've seen the monkeys, yeah. I've seen some cookies that say eat me.

SPEAKER_02 6:35

And the King of King of Hearts? Is it the King of Harts?

SPEAKER_01 6:38

There's some some weird woman running around shouting, off with the heads, off with their heads! That's the one. Yeah. Somebody playing polo with a flamingo and a hedgehog. No, croquet, not polo.

SPEAKER_02 6:48

Was there a hedgehog? Yeah, wasn't the hedgehog the bull?

SPEAKER_01 6:51

I'm sure the hedgehog was a bull.

SPEAKER_02 6:52

Oh, it probably was.

SPEAKER_01 6:53

That sounds very But if the hedgehog was the bull, why didn't it stick in the head of the flamingo?

SPEAKER_02 6:58

I don't think it was. Well, now, anybody that's listening, go and find out for us and let us know.

School Stress And Not Fitting In

SPEAKER_01 7:04

Anyway, away from Alice in Wonderland.

SPEAKER_02 7:06

That kind of sums it up though, doesn't it? I'm sorry if I took us off on a strange plate. No, it's a good one.

SPEAKER_01 7:11

We just went very deeply into it, didn't it? So so for everyone listening as well, what are the things that you were taught early about your work, about success, about money, about visibility? I think we busted a few visibility myths in in the previous podcast. But the point you started off, and I promise, dear listeners, we didn't we don't pre-plan any of this. We give ourselves a few talking points and some bullet points. Sometimes we'll make some notes, but we'll never rehearse with each other what we're gonna say, so it's living in the moment completely for us. So the point you started with about the idea of you not being good enough, I'm gonna take a punt that that's something that you learned early in life.

SPEAKER_02 7:58

Yeah, I think it probably it almost certainly was. As most things a lot of things are, aren't they, in a negative sense.

SPEAKER_01 8:04

So a formative formation.

SPEAKER_02 8:06

Yeah, maybe it's being one of two with an older sibling who was an A star. Very academic. Very academic, almost photographic memory, very good at everything they did.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:20

They do probably still, and yeah, and I think that that wasn't helpful for somebody that was struggling a bit at school, particularly when I made the transition from primary to secondary. I was okay in primary school, and secondary school was just scary, scary stuff, and too much, too much noise, too many people, too many noisy corridors, getting from one lesson to the next, not in one place. You had to move to your lessons, and that I really struggled with. Do you know?

SPEAKER_01 8:47

I still have nightmares now about going to grammar school and not having my timetable. I had one last week. So then not knowing which class I should be in, whose class and where, because my when I went to grammar school in in name only, yeah, just for the record, my lord. Great big giant buildings, not only with with additional mobile blocks, but split across two sides of the road. Two schools essentially, and you had to cross the road to get to and from some of your lessons. Huge. And I genuinely still have nightmares now about having lost my timetable and not knowing which lesson I'm supposed to be in and where in the school it is.

Money Scarcity Learned Early

SPEAKER_02 9:26

That's a really now that's really interesting because that's made me think about you know what I can't stand to oh the irony, somebody that is constantly not late, but always right up against it on time, and quite, you know, a bit of time blindness. But it's like it's really, really, it's really taken me back to what I was like with school because I've realised one of the things I had was I felt I was always on the back foot trying to find the right classroom. And it was a big, quite a big secondary school I was at, trying to make sure it was where I thought it was, and if it wasn't, I can remember doing that, and having like one minute to go to get to class in time, otherwise you'd be, you know, you'd get so many warnings, and then that would go as a bad mark against you. And it and I used to hate it, I used to hate it, so I used to get stressed. I'd hear the bell go, you know, that very distinctive sound. We had a very distinctive bell, and it was like, oh, that means change your letters. What did it sound like, Ash? Go do the bell though. I can't do the bell thing. I don't make it stupid. The bells, the bells, I'm Cossimodo. I know, Cosimodo. That's me, I think, more likely. But yeah, it's a big thing. It used to get me in a right state. So that's I think that's where almost if I feel like I'm on the back foot in that way, and I'm or I'm keeping anybody waiting. That's one of my things. I can't stand to think that I'm keeping people waiting. So there's that people-pleasing side of me as well. So I'm just going to pull us slightly back onto topic again. Yeah, sorry, I've got gone off on a bit of a back to this.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

What are the things that you learned early about work, money, success, visibility, all of those things? What were the things you learned early that weren't true about those things? I mean, for me, never having enough money or always only just having enough, the constant robbing Peter to pay pull, yeah, you know, that I associated with what that's what it's like to be a grown-up. You know, I've got memories of of when I was very, very little asking mum what was wrong and uh just wondering, you know, saying something like, Oh, I've got to find the money for this bill, or whatever. I remember going into her purse when I was really little and found finding, I don't know, five pound note, ten pound note, whatever. Could have been a one pound note back then, that'll confuse our younger listeners. And going and taking her the money down into her working environment. Yeah. I was gonna say the bird sheds, but recognising a lot of listeners don't won't know what I mean. Our family business when I was growing up was b breeding and exporting birds. So the length of our very long garden was just filled with different bird breeding sheds and averies and all-noise must have been something. Yeah, it certainly was. And I remember taking her this note down into the sheds and saying, It's okay, Mum, look, I found this. That I'd taken out of her own purse. It's a reminder that it's okay, look, you've got some.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:05

So that's such an old thought, this idea that you know there's there's there's rarely enough. But also the flip side of that, the language was I need to find the money for this. So it's never I haven't got enough, it was I need to find. Okay. So I guess the lesson there was that we can be scratching about down the back of the sofa, but we'll always find it.

SPEAKER_02 12:28

So actually that's quite a positive in a way, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 12:31

But if I'm not careful, you know, like any self-employed person, I've had highs and lows. I mean a bit more of a dip at the moment in terms of finances, you know. I've deliberately let a few people go because I was working mys my myself into the ground and haven't had the energy to go out there and rebuild the the stuff that I really want to do to to plug that gap just yet, and indeed not just plug a grap a gap but grow a mountain. But if I'm not careful, I can default into that place of feeling like I'm going and digging through all my old pairs of jeans for odd pens, but also knowing that I'll find it or create it. I know I'll be able to create it, yeah. But I wonder if it was that formative learning that has meant I absolutely fundamentally know that if suddenly, I don't know, if a bill for a couple of grand dropped out of the sky, I know I could create somewhere to something to very quickly get that money in. I know I could.

SPEAKER_02 13:25

Yeah, I've seen you do it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:28

Yeah. But how do we break that early anchor and turn it into constantly building those thousands, millions, billions, trillions instead of thinking that you just have to find it when times get tough.

SPEAKER_02 13:48

Yeah, because you're never ever gonna go, oh, you're above that. You're always gonna be stuck in that perpetual kind of just having enough.

SPEAKER_01 13:54

Yeah. And the last time I did start to really build and was thinking, wow, I'm I'm doing this, I've done it, then of course the rug got pulled out from under my feet very, very quickly. So, in terms of, you know, I'd smash through the VAT threshold without realizing. And I do wonder if, in some ways, only now we're talking about this, this is coming up. I do wonder if that has somehow reinforced that early learning of you can find it when you need it, yeah, but the baseline is low. Because that's not that's not true, and it doesn't need to be.

SPEAKER_02 14:27

It's the same way that I talk about and very much had a bit of a mix in my family. So my dad was very much up the workers union, you know, etc. etc. And there's nothing wrong with that at all. But because of that, he got the opportunity, I believe, to go up to management and he didn't. Because he felt he didn't want to be seen as a can I use language? Fellow, a bit of an arse licker, you know, and not be one of the boys and not be one of the.

SPEAKER_01 14:50

Did you really just ask if you're allowed to use language on drop F bombs and C bombs today and all kinds of other alphabetti spaghetti bombs, and you're you're worried about saying good behaviour today.

SPEAKER_02 15:02

I'm trying to be on my best behaviour. I don't know why I've said that, that was ridiculous. I've had too much tea, I think. But yeah, so I was brought up with that, and it was like because of that, and it's like management, whereas my uncle, bless him, he's no longer with us, unfortunately. But he was an amazing man, but he was in management and progressed really well, and I saw the benefits for him and for his family with that, yeah. And then I thought, Crumbs, why do we have that attitude? And it was like it was kind of that, it was quite limiting. And certainly, as far as I know, there wasn't anybody really that was self-employed. So when I went self-employed, you know, I got made redundant for the second time and thought I've got to do something to be. That was stupid of you. I know, ridiculous, isn't it? And so that there was no experience to call upon with that, as far as I knew. There wasn't anybody around to say what's it like to be self-employed.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Can I make a so where did your entrepreneurial street come from?

SPEAKER_02 15:52

Needs must. And a little bit steeper than that. Yeah, but I also think it almost became a kind of, I'm gonna make this work because I think everybody around me, a lot of people around me, don't think I can do it. And and and so there was that drive to say, do you know what? I'm gonna keep going with this. The work's still coming in, I'm still going strong, there's no let up with it, and I've been going for like six months, eight months, a year now, and it's still coming, and there's still other people recommending me and getting more, you know, all of this coming in. And it just kept going, and I thought, I can do this. And the people that I'd worked with when I was employed, some of the businesses that I got to know, because I'd been called in to do various things, you know, projects for them, things like doing um what do I mean Taz? You know, uh supplements, things like that. Yeah. And because I knew them, they kept coming back and saying can you. Oh, magazine supplements. Yeah, magazine supplements, yeah. No, not as in not vitamins and no, no, magazine supplements. And it went from there. And so I think because of that, there was a part of me that said, right, you know, it's odd you, I'm gonna go and I'm swearing again. I'm gonna go and I nearly said the F-word, but stopped myself. Don't say fuck afterwards. No, I nearly did. But yeah, so I went ahead and did it and it worked. And it kept and it freed me up in a way that would never have happened if I'd stayed employed.

SPEAKER_01 17:06

Would you ever want to go back to being employed by somebody else now?

SPEAKER_02 17:09

Oh crumbs, I don't think I'd have the patience or the the right attitude, I think I would get really Yeah, I wouldn't be a happy person at all. They often say, don't they? They always say that once you've gone self-employed, it's very hard to be employable again. I enjoyed the process. I don't think anybody would employ me. And I wouldn't want to employ me because I think I'd be a grumpy old gip, to be honest. I really would. I just I I love the freedom and the variety of what I do. I don't like to be pigeon-holding what I do and the way I work. I've I've got my own ways of working. And if somebody's trying to get me to work in a certain way and it doesn't, it doesn't work for me, then I'm gonna tell them, or I'm just gonna get irritable and say, that doesn't work, it's just a pain in the bum. So I think because of that, yeah, I don't know. I don't think I would. I mean, if needs mask and I had to, then I'd find a way. But I think it would be challenging, let's put it that way. Just in case you know, you never know what's around the corner, but so far, so good. And that I'm talking about, you know, what, more than 20 years of self-employment.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

Do you know what's fascinating talking about this? And I appreciate we keep going off topic a little bit. You'd you'd think this was awesomely off topic.

SPEAKER_02 18:16

No, really, we really are doing it. Because I think the last one, we didn't go terribly off topic, so I'm making up for it with this episode.

SPEAKER_01 18:22

Where you were in a family of people who were not entrepreneurial or self-employed, and you broke the mould. Yeah. What fascinates me when I look back, and I guess these are truths we needed to unlearn as well. I literally grew up in a family where everybody seemed to be running their own business. My mum and my grandfather ran a business together. Yeah. That was the the bird's business. They had flower arranging right through to, you know, big ornate framed funeral.

SPEAKER_02 18:51

They did massive funerals, didn't they? You'll say like really big funerals. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:55

They mum did mum was a self-employed as a dressmaker, she did sign writing.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:00

She was a hairdresser at one point. So, and then my dad also was never in the same business as my mum and my and my granddad, but he was always entrepreneurial. You know, both sides of my family actually came from the pet trade. So my dad used to run a pet shop, and then it got through to being freelance lorry driver. So all of these it was a milkman as well. All of these people around me who were displaying entrepreneurial awareness or or at least running their own businesses, even if they weren't entrepreneurial as such, they were still business owners. And yet, it took me until I was in my 30s to go self-employed. And looking back, you know, I've always had an entrepreneurial mindset.

SPEAKER_00 19:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:48

And yet at the same time, the people who were entrepreneurial were drilling it into me that I needed to go and get a job and start at the bottom and work my way gradually up. And when you first get it, you call the boss sir or mister or whatever. It was just it's weird.

SPEAKER_02 20:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:08

Weird. What else then? So what what else are some of the the the things that you've you've realized were not true? What else did you have to unlearn? So it's a load of those myths about money we had to unlearn. The the amount of us that were told things like money doesn't grow on trees.

SPEAKER_02 20:22

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. It's oh there's horrendous, aren't there, statements and the old statements?

SPEAKER_01 20:27

Financially, until it went plastic over here, money literally did grow on trees. It was paper. Literally.

SPEAKER_02 20:34

It did. It still does at the moment, anyway, at least.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

It doesn't because it's plastic now.

SPEAKER_02 20:39

Oh yeah, I suppose so, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:40

We've got weird plastic monopoly money.

SPEAKER_02 20:42

Right, you've made me think about the old pound notes as well, because it was like the size of them as well.

SPEAKER_01 20:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:46

And it went from that to a I remember all the outrage and there was it went from that to a pound coin.

SPEAKER_01 20:51

Remember how big the first pound coin was, though? It was like the size of a two-pound coin.

SPEAKER_02 20:55

No, it was ridiculous.

SPEAKER_01 20:57

They did play with a five pound coin for a while.

SPEAKER_02 20:59

Did they? I don't remember that.

SPEAKER_01 21:00

Yeah, I'm sure they did.

SPEAKER_02 21:02

I remember being happy about 50 pound notes. I still am, really.

SPEAKER_01 21:05

I love 50 pound notes. Give me more. Give me more.

SPEAKER_02 21:09

Yeah, go on then. So what else are we saying? Go on. I've interrupted you. I took you off on another tangent. So what were we talking about?

SPEAKER_01 21:14

Oh, just all the just all the things that we really all need to unlearn about money that we were trained by, you know, the generations before us. What are some of those other money myths? You know, in that you should just save it all, don't spend too much, never have any debt. But then you can't get the credit if you haven't got money.

SPEAKER_02 21:33

Or you can't take it with you when you go, the opposite side of that, which was very much some members of my family were like that. But real polar opposites, isn't it? But my mum and dad were polar opposites because my mum was always a big saver, and she had always had insurance policies coming out right, left, and centre.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

Your mum was Tory and your dad was Labour. Well, your mum thought she was Tory until she realised that your dad hadn't been posting their proxy votes for you.

SPEAKER_02 21:53

Shocking, that's illegal. Please don't try that at home, everybody, listeners.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

Unless your other half is going to vote Tory. Or reform, in which case, no, hide those votes.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

But yeah, so it was always, it was, there was a real mix of things going on in our house about around finances and money and savings and all of that stuff. But I can still remember the day when my dad took me to my first building society to put my money in my first account.

SPEAKER_01 22:18

Oh, I remember doing that too.

SPEAKER_02 22:19

Yeah, it's a big day. It's an impressive day.

SPEAKER_01 22:21

Yeah, I remember having a little paper book from the Yorkshire Bank.

SPEAKER_02 22:24

It was in a little pouch thing, was it, as well? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 22:27

Yes. I also remember having an account with the what'd it have been? I had one with Midland, but then I think I defected to Nat West because I wanted the piggy banks.

SPEAKER_02 22:37

Crumbs, they're worth a fortune now, you know.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

For anyone who doesn't know, Nat West years ago had this young savers scheme where once you got to various milestones in your savings, you had a different piggy bank, and they were all members of the family and the the piggy family. Yeah, the top one was Sir Nathaniel Westminster, who had a pinstripe suit on and big bushy eyebrows.

SPEAKER_02 23:00

Yeah, my nephews had those.

SPEAKER_01 23:01

I think they've probably still got the baby Woody, and then I had his younger his older sister Annabelle, and then I had the older brother, Maxwell, but I missed out on mum and dad.

SPEAKER_02 23:13

Oh no.

SPEAKER_01 23:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:15

Fatal mistake, really.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

And I think I gave those things away to some cousins who were playing up for them.

SPEAKER_02 23:19

Yeah. And now that yeah, they're a nice, nice thing to have, aren't they?

Success Myths And Employee Mindset

SPEAKER_01 23:23

Okay, so What about success? What about s what are some of the things that we need to unlearn or that took us a long time to unlearn about success?

SPEAKER_02 23:32

Well, you've got to work hard for success. It's not just gonna arrive on your doorstep as if da-da, there you go, there it is again. Oh I'm doing the da-da thing. I did that in the last episode. Don't know why, but um yeah, that you've got to work hard, and it's not for most of us, it's not an instant success. You've got to be and if it is, it can be fleeting.

SPEAKER_01 23:51

And if you are enjoying your work, it doesn't count and it's not work, work is supposed to be hard.

SPEAKER_02 23:58

That's I can remember when I first started going self-employed, and I well when we were both self-employed actually, when you were when you also went down the self-employed route after me.

SPEAKER_00 24:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:07

And I can remember us going out somewhere and we'd been either to a meeting or something, then coming back, but we decided to stop off to do our shopping. Yeah. And it was like three o'clock on a Tuesday afternoon, and it felt really naughty because I should be at work. I can still remember that because that's been so ingrained that you do the kind of nine to five and you work hard, and if you need to.

SPEAKER_01 24:28

When did we ever do nine to five as journalists?

SPEAKER_02 24:30

We didn't.

SPEAKER_01 24:31

And even when we went into marketing, no, there's always something else that needs doing.

SPEAKER_02 24:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

It's fascinating, isn't it? Because of course, the whole point is with going self-employed, but for most people it's the it's the freedom element. And yet, the biggest thing that I find with with people I coach as well, the biggest element that people have to unlearn when they've been in corporate, when they've been employed by someone else, and they're going to running their own business, they have to unlearn the employee mindset. And that's going to be about timekeeping, as you said, about how long you should take for lunch.

SPEAKER_02 25:07

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:07

How often you should take time off. About what else?

SPEAKER_02 25:13

When in the year almost as well, you should take time off.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:16

You know, because I remember there were certain organisations I've worked for where you couldn't go between certain months of the year because it was it was busier, there were more trade events.

SPEAKER_01 25:24

How long you're allowed to take off in one go.

SPEAKER_02 25:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

Yeah. Whether you have how many days holiday you have, how many days holiday do we have as self-employed people? I don't know. Wanna take time off or just take time off?

SPEAKER_02 25:35

I was just going to say, probably though, when it's been really busy, considerably less than when we were employed.

SPEAKER_01 25:39

Absolutely. And we certainly work longer hours. But all of these things. The other thing with an employee mindset is things often don't get done because it, depending on what level we're at in in corporate land, we're used to being able to delegate. And all of a sudden there's nobody to delegate to. So I found at first a lot of my admin really just got accounts, doing my accounts regularly. Terrible. Which means you've got to do these. Which means I've got to take take some of my money and set it aside for the government. What?

SPEAKER_02 26:11

And for me, I suppose the opposite of thing for me would be tech. Yeah. So I'd be like, my computer is not a good thing. What do I do? I'm so used to ringing up, you know, so and so and saying, Can you come and see me? He's on the floor above me. Yeah. Like I say, come in and sort that out.

SPEAKER_01 26:25

So you have to unlearn having an employee mindset. And in many ways that can limit you, but also, I an employee mindset can limit you. It it limits you in terms of how much you think you can earn and what you believe to be a good wage. Whereas when you're self-employed, it genuinely is limitless. The only limit is your mind and what you're willing to do for it.

SPEAKER_02 26:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:48

But the limitations coming back the other way are, you know, suddenly having things like admin to do, which is why I'm such a massive advocate for for outsourcing, as as soon as you can. You've got to unlearn an employee mindset.

SPEAKER_02 27:01

Yeah, otherwise you're just gonna be pushing yourself into the grave, aren't you? Trying to get everything done, you know, trying to control it and how it's how you know things are done. Yeah. You've got to let go. Sooner or later, you've got to let go of it. Yeah. Because otherwise you're just gonna hide into nothing.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

And it's the same with the the thing we're talking about with success, isn't it? You have to unlearn all these daft ideas that as an employed person we have about successful self-employed people. You know, they all either need to be on the take somewhere or they are driving themselves absolutely into the ground. Absolutely. And that you have to spend way too much on external visible material items in order to be taken seriously.

SPEAKER_02 27:46

Yeah. Oh yeah, that's so true.

SPEAKER_01 27:49

We've had that conversation so often when we've been changing cars.

SPEAKER_02 27:52

Yeah.

unknown 27:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:53

The amount of people I know who go self-employed and they're absolutely crippling themselves trying to keep up with the with the monthly payments on something like a I don't know, a a Porsche or a or a BMW or a Merck, and it's they're all on lease, and it's all because of how it looks. They're scrimping and saving, and yet they're driving round in a car that they think makes them appear to be way more successful. In fact, they'd be more successful without that car.

SPEAKER_02 28:23

But isn't that that's the link back, isn't it, to corporate days. Yeah. And the company cars that you might well have got in the position that you had within that firm. So suddenly you're like, I can't go from a, I don't know, one of those, a m a Merck, to a Fiesta. You actually lost a client, didn't you?

SPEAKER_01 28:39

Because you when I was still in corporate.

SPEAKER_02 28:41

We talked about this as well, didn't we?

SPEAKER_01 28:42

From when I was still in corporate land and I had a company Audi, A6 loved that car. But I was in Peterborough, and the prefix for number plates in Peterborough is AJ.

SPEAKER_02 28:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:54

And your business at the time, because it was after your initials, was AJB Communications.

SPEAKER_00 28:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

And you'd got my car for the day for whatever reason. You came out of a successful meeting, ready to start working with you, and this guy saw the car you were getting into, saw the place, assumed it was personal, and said, Well, you clearly don't need my money, I'm not working with you, and off he's dumped.

SPEAKER_02 29:15

He did. I was just like, I was just left there going, what then?

SPEAKER_01 29:18

WTF.

Status Symbols And Being Judged

SPEAKER_02 29:19

Exactly. Exactly. There was a bit of a sore trigger for that first. Yeah, there was really. So, yeah, so it's ridiculous, isn't it? Because to me, as long as I've got a car that looks vaguely presentable, that can be do you know what I mean? So what if it's not a top of the range?

SPEAKER_01 29:33

Yeah. So where do all these beliefs come from that we need to unlearn? I mean, family, school, what is it, industry, culture, where are they all?

SPEAKER_02 29:41

Everything. Everything, isn't it? But I mean, for me, a lot of family stuff, definitely, that I've talked about earlier, without a doubt. And I suppose if you've not got any benchmarks because you've not got people around you, I mean, even though you didn't recognise it at the time, you've got people around you that were in self-employment, but also you were very aware of some of the pitfalls of that. You maybe saw some of the less positive stuff around that at times as well. Yeah, you still dove in and gave it a go. And I think that's very much the attitude of your family. That's what strikes me with all the family members that I've ever met.

SPEAKER_01 30:13

Yeah, my mum's mantra has been, you know, try and fix it yourself first. And if you can't fix it, then you bring in the expert.

SPEAKER_02 30:18

Whereas maybe from my bit would be, oh, I don't know if you should do that, you know. That might be a bit risky, you know, risk averse, and me, never. But yeah, so I think that makes a big difference, doesn't it, too? So, yes, definitely family. And obviously, you know, think about the environments we've worked in as well.

SPEAKER_01 30:33

You know, what there's a lot of cynicism in journalism.

SPEAKER_02 30:36

Yeah, definitely. That goes with the doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01 30:39

Yeah, and nowadays I can't stand cynicism. Scepticism, yeah. Healthy AF, we all need a healthy dose dose of scepticism, but I hate cynicism if I find it soul crushing. Yeah. I really do. So can you remember any moments where you realised that something wasn't working, something that you'd learned to be the absolute the Bible, the truth, the absolute fact of the situation, and realised that it wasn't that that belief wasn't true and it wasn't working, you had to unlearn it.

SPEAKER_02 31:13

Yeah, inverted snobbery around and accents and the way people sounded and spoke and making judgments about their backgrounds and knowledge base, massive. I'm a huge admitted, I'm not proud of that one. Christ. But that one, that's that one's been the massive one because it said very much that up the workers' thing. So anybody proper bias, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely terrible. Which would but then would then it was almost that tied in with excuse me for coughing, tied in with kind of a almost quite a fear-based response to it as well. You know, wanting to be the people pleaser, but if it's somebody posh, I've got to be, you know, I've got to put on the voice a bit myself, I've got to try and be this. I think that is one of the things we learn as a judge. But I think, but also that it's like, what do they know about what it's like to have to work hard and you know, be on, you know, not have a lot of money in the thing, making huge judgments. That was a massive one for me. And then I met, it was really interesting because the one of the jobs that I've done in the past is work for a particular industry, and it felt like everybody I met had a double-barreled surname.

SPEAKER_01 32:22

And now I have really after thought in clear water, and now I have and spoke very well.

SPEAKER_02 32:29

And it was like I was immersed in this kind of culture, and I had to get on with it either that or I couldn't do my job, I'd lose my job, you know, because I was working a contract for somebody. And of course that wasn't true. I met some incredible people, and it's like, take that inverted snobbery away. But occasionally, again, every now and again, it'll pop in to say hello and I'll go home.

SPEAKER_01 32:47

Somebody's got a plummy accent.

SPEAKER_02 32:48

Yeah. It's like, you know Where does that come from? Where did you learn that? Home stuff again. It's it's yeah. It's I think it's yeah, childhood and hearing things. People remember conversation. Remember, I was I met a lot of different kinds of people because of the jobs that my family members had in various situations. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So it was, yeah, I met a variety of people, and some very well spoken, some not so well spoken. You know, that's life. And so what?

SPEAKER_01 33:19

Because you were, you know, part of the mob.

SPEAKER_02 33:21

Yeah, part of the mob. But She wasn't. I wasn't really, I wasn't.

unknown 33:26

But yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:26

No relationship. You know? So yeah, that's a massive one. That was huge. That was terrible, terrible realisation that. And occasionally it'll pop in. I'll go, don't you start with that again. I've I gave that up a long time ago. I've met some amazing people that speak really well.

SPEAKER_01 33:41

But there are a lot of people out there.

SPEAKER_02 33:42

Maybe there's a jealousy in that thing. There's like elocution lessons. Yeah. Maybe I wanted, I actually think I did consider that at some point. Really? Obviously, it's not worked as you can hear from my estuary accent, which I've not got an estuary accent at all. Yeah, I have, I have.

SPEAKER_01 33:54

You haven't, not compared to a proper estuary accent.

SPEAKER_02 33:56

I have when I don't think about it. But so what if I have? That's where I come from.

SPEAKER_01 34:00

So I don't think anybody who knows you now would describe that as an estuary accent. Moving on, Taz, move on, move on. It's fascinating, isn't it? How many people, even today, we see holding themselves back because they have been taught that you cannot be a good person and have money.

SPEAKER_00 34:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:22

Rich people are bad people.

SPEAKER_02 34:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:24

No, some are. There are also some people who are not rich by any way, shape, or means, and they're were born assholes and only got bigger.

SPEAKER_02 34:34

Yeah, exactly. It's too much of a sweeping judgment, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. It's ridiculous. But how that impacted me, I hadn't realised until I started uh working and meeting the people that I did. And of course, because I've worked in various industries, you know, for business, you know, certainly since I've gone self-employed, I've met so many different types of people and interviewed hundreds, if not thousands, of people over the years. And now it's like it's a person, they're a human being, and we're gonna have this conversation, let's see where it goes, and I'm not gonna have any of that bias. And I do my very best to not do that now. But occasionally, usually when I'm tired, usually when I'm a bit grumpy, and certainly now I've got like you know, arguably slightly less hormones around than they were in my 30s. Yeah, it's a good teaching though, it's a good reminder, and it's to keep stay humble.

SPEAKER_01 35:22

Do you know one of the one of the biggest things?

SPEAKER_02 35:25

Humble though, what does that mean?

SPEAKER_01 35:26

Yeah, I was I was just gonna go there and I thought we'd go down a rabbit hole again. What does humble actually mean?

SPEAKER_00 35:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:31

It doesn't mean that you cannot be wealthy, abundant, whatever word you want to give it. You can you can be humble in your attitude but still have a rich life.

SPEAKER_02 35:43

Yeah.

VAT Fear And Business Growth

SPEAKER_01 35:44

You know, humble's got some real real negatives associated with it if we're not careful. There's one of the biggest myths I had to unlearn, and we touched on it earlier, I unlearned it the hard way, is I spent so long trying to stay just under the wire for VAT. Because I'd had so many people who I perceived as being further along the self-employment track than me, and far more entrepreneurial, who were saying things like, oh no, you've got to be really, really careful, don't go VAT register, don't go for VAT unless you absolutely have to, because the second you the second you go VAT, that's it, you've got to really, really put your foot down. That kills a lot of businesses, that going going VAT registered. I'd heard that horror story for so many people, from so many. And I was so afraid that I wouldn't be able to do it, and that actually earning more would kill my business. And I was aware of the irony, I didn't understand how that could be the thing. Well, how can you earn more and then be in a difficult position? And of course, it's not true. And again, I learned the hard way.

SPEAKER_00 36:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:51

When, you know, we had a very, very poorly dog we were looking after, and then a very poorly cat who had massive, massive medical expenses. And suddenly, where I'd got my foot to the floor, so much another cue that we know we can earn the money when we need to. You know, I'd gone from skirting around below the vat wire to having smashed through it without even realising it because so much cash was going out on the dog or not and on the cat, but more on the dog. And I was so focused on making sure she was okay, taking my eye off the ball with my accounts. I just kept glancing and thinking, well, there's not a lot in there, I must be fine. And then all of a sudden, hello, 30 grand 30 grand that bill that I just paid in one lump sum and wiped a lot of myself out. But it was only after that that I went, nothing's really changed. The threat the threat there is not seeing it coming and not being prepared for it, that's where I fell down. But that belief I was holding on to that it was dangerous and scary and beyond me to go that registered. Whereas now it's so long as you don't see that additional 20% as it is now as your money, and from the outset you set it aside every time, there's no issue. But that's a massive, yeah, massive business and life myth that keeps lots of businesses small, that it's really scary to go to go vote registered.

SPEAKER_02 38:18

And instead, you only need to hear that once or twice, and then suddenly that's that's in there, isn't it? I'm so scared on your mind all the time that you're gonna steal well clear of that. And how is that restricting your growth?

SPEAKER_01 38:29

And it's like limited companies as well, the amount of people who think you've got to immediately go limited because it's the only safe thing to do. And kind of, you know, take advice from your accountant and your advisors on it, but whether you need to go limited and how early in your business building, a lot of that depends on the kind of business you run and the actual and whether there is there's actually much risk there. There's so many variables there, so many. Self-promotion, we've talked about that a lot. There's an awful lot of self- self- what is it, self-praise is no praise. Yeah. You know, it's it's arrogant to put yourself out there as big-headed.

SPEAKER_02 39:08

Yeah, big-headed, yeah. You're an ego. Who do you think you are? That's what I you know, I get that, I'd hear that a lot. Who do you think you are?

SPEAKER_01 39:13

Oh, it's flip buttons. Well, who are you to not do it? Yeah, yeah, that's all of these things flip. Yeah, that keep people keep people small. There's all these th these things that, you know, people think that that there's a difference between knowing something intellectually and actually unlearning a feeling or vibe you have been given that has been installed by other people.

SPEAKER_00 39:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:38

Because a lot of these things that we have to unlearn, they're they're not intellectual or logical things. They're not.

SPEAKER_02 39:44

Well, there's that question again, isn't there? Where's your evidence? Yeah. You know, that one, as soon as you put that in amongst it, that puts the cat amongst the pigeons and makes you go, yeah. Okay, yeah, actually.

SPEAKER_01 39:55

Beliefs we hold about charging our worth as well, and how much we're worth. And you know, you get a hundred people in the room and ask them what they see as a lot of money, and you'll get everything from 25 quid up to 25 million. Well, they can't all be right, or can they?

SPEAKER_00 40:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:10

What is a lot? So it's it's it's just it's mindset and it's surroundings and it's learning and it's indoctrination, and so many of us, and I count myself in this, absolutely, have historically kept ourselves small because of beliefs we've carried around that probably aren't even ours. Well, they're never ours in the first place. They've just been handed to us in some really shitty gift route.

How Unlearning Happens In Practice

SPEAKER_02 40:37

And we've gone, thank you very much. Oh yes, what a lovely gift. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:41

What has what does unlearning feel like?

SPEAKER_02 40:45

It's experiential, isn't it? For me. You've got you've got to be in that to feel what it feels like in order to grow from it, I think. The best lessons are always those when you're immersed in that. So, for instance, what I talked about earlier, you know, having that that negative belief around people with posher accents and all of that, and suddenly it was like I'm in the middle of this, I've got to sink or swim here, I've got to park that, and I've got to be open, and I've got to be non-judgmental, and I've just got to learn from this process. And that was really hard. It was really hard, but I did it and I learned so much from it. And I also got so much support, so much encouragement, a different way of looking at business and how I worked and what I did and what I wanted to do. It was like this world opened up when I was in front of these people and around these people and still out, you know, whenever I am.

SPEAKER_03 41:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:37

That's really, really, really impressive for me because it just allows me to open up the possibilities. Well, why don't you do that? People questioning at those those moments when you'll say, Well, I can't possibly do that. Well, why can't you? What's making you think you can't do that?

SPEAKER_01 41:51

Lovely saying, I say it a lot, though. I think it was Steve Gonsalvis who said it to me the first time that, you know, what we don't realise is the the the the man who does not realise it's impossible the man who does not realise something is impossible might just go and achieve it.

SPEAKER_00 42:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:08

And that's so true. I mean, even if you want to get a really obvious one, think about the the evolution of how quickly people have been able to run a mile.

SPEAKER_02 42:18

And do you know, yeah, exactly that, exactly. And I'm looking, as we're we're in the studio today, and I'm looking around, and Phil Knight was shoe dog, yeah. Nike, when you read his book, if you've not read it, I'd highly recommend it. It's a fantastic read.

SPEAKER_01 42:31

We've also got the guy who's got something a lot of people need to unlearn. They need to unlearn the idea that it's Nike. It's not, it's Nike, after the goddess Nike, it's Greek.

SPEAKER_02 42:40

But he was told so many times, he was told so many times that it was not gonna work. So he'd go away, go back to the drawing board, and him and his team would come up with something else and they'd try it. What's the worst that's gonna happen? We're gonna try this, it's either gonna bomb or it's gonna work.

SPEAKER_01 42:56

Yeah, and I kept going and either way it's a win because if it bombs, you learn shed loads in the process.

SPEAKER_02 43:01

Ben and Jerry, you know, the ice cream guys. I love the story there, the fact that they were coming at it completely differently because I forget which one it is, and I should know, couldn't taste properly. He's taste he experienced it long before COVID. Yeah, he couldn't taste anything, so therefore he wanted to create an ice cream that was textural. So you've got all these textures in it, and I'm it's my favourite ice cream. I'm not just saying that, but if you want to sponsor me, that's great, thank you. But yeah, and so I that is another fantastic. If he'd listened to everybody else that was saying that will never work, where would they have been?

SPEAKER_01 43:36

If you'd listened to the dissenters in the beginning, your business wouldn't be called turquoise tiger.

SPEAKER_02 43:41

That's true. That is a true story, yes.

SPEAKER_01 43:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:44

Yeah, because uh I put it out there to a few people and they said, I'm not sure. Well, what's that got to do with what you do? I think one said that. Yeah, and it was like, well, I I love it. And actually the story behind it, which maybe we'll talk about in another episode if we haven't already, I don't think we have. But It's a lovely story behind it as well, but we just love it. So and it's still I love my I love everything about it. It's the energy of it. I love and we stick I stuck with it. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:09

So what's one thing you tell your old your your younger self? I'd say try things.

SPEAKER_02 44:14

Try more things. Don't be afraid to try something new. And even if one person doesn't think it's gonna work, that doesn't mean that's gonna be the case. Just do it anyway. Trust yourself, trust your instincts, trust your gut instincts. I'd say that again and again, trust your gut instincts and go with it. Because what's the worst that can happen? What's something you're still unlearning now? Not to be so hard on myself.

unknown 44:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:41

Not to be so self-critical.

SPEAKER_03 44:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:44

I think that's one of my things that's a lifelong pattern.

SPEAKER_03 44:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:47

That I'm working on, you know, changing. Occasionally it will trip me up, but I am getting there. And with your help and support and all the people around me that are close friends that are fantastic, that call me out on it.

SPEAKER_01 44:58

So yeah. What about you? Same for me in many ways. You know, the it it's very easy. I'll sometimes I sometimes get afraid that when I start to dream and imagine and think about how I can create more, I feel afraid that I've gone into a perhaps familial pattern of of having that kind of Delboy attitude. This time next year, Rodney will be millionaires. And you know, that that attitude that we're just we just need to win the lottery. Well, we don't play.

unknown 45:29

Yeah.

Burn The Bed And Move On

SPEAKER_01 45:29

And sometimes I lose belief in myself and worry that I'm just being a dreamer with no anchor. And I know that's not true. And I know we can do more, and I have done before, and I will do again. Yeah. You know, and don't get me wrong, it's not like we're at rock bottom or anything. It's we're we're doing pretty well, thank you very much. We've been self-employed since, well, 2010 for me and even earlier for you. Yeah, yeah. So we're still doing alright, thank you very much. But yeah, old beliefs. And you know, this is perhaps for another episode on another day, but one of the big things I had to unlearn comes down to sexuality. I remember years ago being told that I must never, ever, ever come out. I must never, ever, ever let anybody know that I preferred women. I must never, ever, ever let anyone know I was gay. You know, because it is a perversion, quote unquote. Yeah. And your life will be over and you will never get work ever again. Nobody will ever employ you if if they know that you like women. So so many of other people's beliefs, and actually foundless beliefs, we pick up, we hoover up and we we run with them for a long time. So definitely, what's your evidence? And of course, the biggest bunch of people who need to unlearn things that are just aren't true are reform voters. But we'll just leave that there. You're doing it again, Taz, you're doing it again. And Republicans. Anyway, you know the the biggest thing that I would like everyone to unlearn.

SPEAKER_02 47:07

Go on.

SPEAKER_01 47:08

To leave on on a positive note or on a note of possibility, is that you absolutely do not need to keep lying in that bed once you've made it. You don't.

SPEAKER_02 47:22

That's a good one. And that we could get that could take me down another thing.

SPEAKER_01 47:25

I'm just thinking that's probably that old saying, you've made your bed and now you need to lie on it. No. If you've made your bed and that bed no longer serves you for whatever reason, burn the fucking bed. Buy a new bed. You can have as many beds as you like, but you do not have to keep lying in that bed that for whatever reason has become uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_02 47:49

Nice one. What a great way to finish the episode. Finish strong, Taz.

SPEAKER_01 47:53

Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_02 47:54

Well said, madam.

SPEAKER_01 47:55

We all just need to remember, don't we, that some of the most I said well sad.

SPEAKER_02 47:59

Well said. Well sad and well said.

SPEAKER_01 48:01

Some of the most expensive things we carry are actually the beliefs that are costing us.

SPEAKER_02 48:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:07

And they're they're very often, they're not even our debts, are they? They're beliefs that we never ever questioned. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:13

Mental health.

SPEAKER_01 48:14

Yeah. Yeah. Look after that first. Yeah. And burn the bed. If you don't want the bed, get rid of the bed. Get a new bed. Yeah. And on that note, we will see you next Tuesday.

SPEAKER_02 48:29

You've been listening to Autumn Me Off Topic. Make sure you're following so you don't miss the next one. And if you'd like more, come and find Autumn Me Off Topic on social media. You'll find behind the scenes footage, Bluefoot, and more. See you next time.