🎙️ S2 E15: Stop Asking Everyone – How To Actually Make A Decision

Ever noticed how the second you feel uncertain, you suddenly want everyone’s opinion? We’ve both done it, and it can turn one simple choice into a messy tangle of voices, pros and cons, and “helpful” advice that drags you away from what you actually wanted. We talk about the decision making trap: why the urge to ask a 17th person is often a sign you’ve lost touch with your own clarity, not a sign you need more information.

We pull examples from real life and work, from book feedback and beta readers to branding, logos, websites, and the endless tinkering that shows up as “fixing” your LinkedIn bio every few weeks. We also look at the uncomfortable bits: asking people who love you but cannot help you, mistaking loud confidence for expertise, and quietly trying to hand someone else the responsibility so you can blame them if it goes wrong.

Then we go deeper into what sits underneath chronic indecision: fear, insecurity, and the way a “wrong” outcome can get fused to identity. For neurodivergent listeners, we explore why self trust can be harder to build, how ADHD decision fatigue makes even tiny choices feel impossible, and how RSD can trigger catastrophising spirals. We finish with practical tools you can try straight away, including journalling before you ask anyone, the 10-10-10 rule, noticing fear versus intuition in the body, and setting a decision deadline.

If this lands, hit follow, subscribe, and share it with someone who is stuck in overthinking. Then leave us a review and tell us: what decision are you avoiding right now, and why?

Transcript

Why Advice Makes You Stuck

SPEAKER_00 0:00

This is Awesomely Off Topic where we talk books, brands, business and everything else we're not supposed to say out loud. I'm Asha and Tad, let's dive in.

SPEAKER_01 0:11

Have you ever asked so many people for advice on something that by the end of it you were way more confused than when you started? Yeah? I bet we all have. That's what we're going to be talking about today. So here's a bit of a tease of what's going to be coming through the episode. We're going to be talking about the decision-making trap, where our instincts are way better than we think, and what to actually do when we're genuinely stuck. So let's dive in. The core irony is that the moment we most need clarity is the moment that we tend to be obsessed with asking everybody for direction. We were talking about this earlier today, weren't we?

SPEAKER_00 0:55

We were indeed, yeah. A number of times that's happened, and you just get yourself down a rabbit hole and then another rabbit hole and another rabbit hole. Not that I'm suggesting that our friends, relatives, and business contacts are rabbit holes, but you end up more confused than when you started. I think we've all been there, haven't we, at various stages in our careers, in our businesses, where we've said, help, I'm not sure what direction I need to take. I know, I'll ask so-and-so, and then I ask somebody else, then I ask somebody else, and suddenly it's like a tangled ball of wool in your head. Yeah. I think that's the way I look at it anyway. It's just causes more confusion very much.

SPEAKER_01 1:29

And that that's the issue, isn't it? That ironically, when we're stuck over trying to make a choice, the more we overthink it, the more we convince ourselves that we don't know. You know, even if we do pros and cons lists, we'll start somehow managing to put just as many pros and cons on both lists. And then we'll think, well, I need let me ask somebody else, and then before you know it, as you just said, you've got either you ask ten people and get five or six different opinions that you weren't expecting.

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

Or nobody can agree anyway. And then that makes it worse because you might end up in that scenario where you feel obligated to take the majority advice when it was nothing like you wanted to do in the first place.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

So it's gone so far away from what you originally had planned, and then there's that, I suppose there's that potential for therefore not giving it your best shot because actually you've kind of gone along with it rather than really feeling into it and being part of it right from the beginning. Yeah. So yeah, that it for me from experience, it's been quite challenging when we've done that and put that out to lots of different people.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

It's a very head-based thing, isn't it? And I know that you've seen this time after time when you've been working with people on books. Yeah. Well, you know, they're working with you because you're the expert. Yeah. And before you know it, they're thinking they need to get like 17 different beta readers and an opinion from somebody over there who runs a bookshop, and something from somebody over here because you know they once read a comic when they were four.

SPEAKER_00 2:57

Yeah, and then there's somebody else that's like, oh, I know somebody that's a designer, oh, I'll speak to them, and of course, as you anybody knows that's in the design business. Subjective. It's objective, there's so many different opinions with design, same with writing, different writing stuff.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

And then they'll come back to you and start arguing with your expertise because they've got three different conflicting opinions.

SPEAKER_00 3:16

Yeah, and everybody's confused, me included. Yeah. And then that's not a really good space to be in, particularly if you're starting if you're starting out on a book and you're trying to get a really good uh manuscript together. So yeah, I've seen it quite a few times.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

There's so many times it can happen in so many different scenarios. And that that's the thing, isn't it? That at that time when you're confused, the thing that you need is validation. What you're actually asking for is certainty, I suspect. And what you actually need to do is sit quietly away from everybody else, potentially, and tune into that gut feel and just make a decision. Because you can't you can't get it wrong. If you're gonna make a decision and it doesn't work out in the way that you'd hoped, then you can just go, okay, what didn't work? What did work? Why do we need to tweak things?

SPEAKER_00 4:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

The world is not gonna end.

SPEAKER_00 4:07

But you've got to be brave enough, haven't you, to actually go to that point, to that, and that and we'll talk about that a bit as well, I think.

The Clarity Trap And Overthinking

SPEAKER_00 4:13

But that's that's sometimes that's the issue, isn't it? That we're not prepared to. I know I've been in that space where I've taken on board all these different opinions, different ideas, and you know, st steerage from various people who you know totally respect and you know think are amazing what they do, but then I'm left at the end of it rather than going back to where you know, maybe the question is where did I start with this? Where did this begin? What was my initial kind of thoughts around that? What were they around that? And then look at what's been suggested and how does that play into it so that it can I can keep it still part of my original ideas. I'm not losing my ideas completely in all of the other stuff that's come in. Yeah. And that's the that's the challenge, I think.

SPEAKER_01 4:53

In fact, thinking about it, books are a brilliant way to demonstrate that opinion on things like this is so objective. Because think think about You mean subjective. I said subjective, didn't I? I said objective, didn't you? I said objective, oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_00 5:08

Oh, dunno, you might not have done it. Been a long day. I might have done.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

It is quite late tonight, actually, so yeah. It is, we're recording this at 25 past ten at night.

SPEAKER_00 5:16

And it probably shows. But do you know what?

SPEAKER_01 5:18

It's in the middle of the heat wave, and I don't know about anybody else. Yeah. But my daytime, my days have been turned completely upside down. You've been ri haven't you?

SPEAKER_00 5:27

I mean, more so than me. I've always been the night out in our relationship.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

Thank goodness, I've just had a week where I didn't have forward-facing clients, but I've turned into such a vampire while the heat wave's been on.

SPEAKER_00 5:35

You have totally. I mean, that's usually it's me that stays up till really late, and it's been you, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 5:39

No, I mean a couple of nights back I went to bed at 8:30am. Madness.

SPEAKER_00 5:44

Even I wouldn't do that. But there you go. Ping.

SPEAKER_01 5:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

Anyway. Anyway. Awesome off topic.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Absolutely on the topic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Heat destroys my circadian rhythm. I was going to say that books are a brilliant way to show how much of this kind of opinion is subjective. Because if I think about some of the books that I've loved and some of the books that I really haven't been able to get on with, there have been a few books I've bought and I've been so excited to dig into them and so wanted to read them, and they've had loads of great feedback. They've been, you know, best sellers, not just Amazon bestsellers, but best sellers in I don't know, the big, big, big bestseller lists. And then I've gone, what? Huh? So Gina Or, Clan of the Cavebear, she'll be right at my street. And yet, for me, way too descriptive. But that's because I think in pictures. And by the time she's finished describing all the different shades of yellow in a buttercup, I've already pictured the flower and it was a tulip.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

Is there a bit too much Henry James styly where you take like six pages to describe a I don't know?

SPEAKER_01 6:53

Because I've already thought of it and then they describe it, and it destroys the picture I've just had in my head. And that's the downfall, isn't it? Sometimes with with reading the book and then seeing the movie. Because it's like the characters on the movie never look anything like I mean, what have they done with Moonface?

SPEAKER_00 7:09

There's my childhood ruin. I can't see that. I can't see that. I just can't. I've got so many wonderful memories of the face. Moonface has a face like a moon and not just hair-shaped like a moon. No, no, it just doesn't work. I've saw the so I saw the trailer and just got it.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

You you particularly were really excited about it. It's one of my favourite books growing up. It's not Moonface.

SPEAKER_00 7:29

No, and it's so shamanic as well. Anybody that practices shamanism will understand that. You know, all those different lands at the top of the tree that you go to visit, and all the animal spirits and all the animals characters that are in it, amazing. And I loved it as a kid. And then when I saw the trailer, I was like, oh, it doesn't it doesn't look like I imagined it. And I really think I'm going to be upset by it. So I might watch it on um on HomeView if I'm feeling brave, but on the other hand, probably not. But we've gone off with a little bit of a lot of it.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

We have, but it it makes a fair point. Kate Moss Labyrinth. Yeah. Really wanted to read that as well, but I just could not get into it. And you know, the the we'll have discussions about this when you're talking about things like punctuation and grammar, and you know, there's some really prolific, again, best-selling authors out there, and I read them as a former journalist and go, there's no punctuation. There's what? Can somebody explain to this person how a comma works?

SPEAKER_00 8:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

And then there's others that I'll read that feel over punctuated. Yeah. And then there's some that have punctuation that seems to be in odd places, but it's actually really working with the rhythm of the book.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

Well, that's the thing, and that's why I talk about a lot with my authors. I always talk about this on these podcasts as well. So forgive me if you've heard this a zillion times before, but I do go on about it because I believe in it wholeheartedly, is why it's important to read your work out loud. Because for me, that's when you can really get to grips with the book and see if the pace is right, you know, that everything about it is the right style for you. So that's why I love speaking aloud the words that have been written, because it really allows me to get into the mind of the writer and and uh get a feel for their writing style as well. So that's really important. So yeah, it's it's um there's so many things around that, aren't there? About about choosing the right, the right well, I think we're going to talk about that in a little bit, Taz. I might be going ahead of myself a bit, but talking about choosing the right, the right kind of people to go to for advice at various times, moments in your career, business decisions, things as well. We won't be talking about that, aren't we?

SPEAKER_01 9:27

We are, we are. I was just trying to wrap my brain and thinking, who was the author that we saw at a couple of events who really used that rhythm when she was reading the book and it was Steph Therobold.

SPEAKER_00 9:40

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I loved her writing, but I loved her reading it as a bigger. Because again, yeah, it was beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 9:46

Punctuation there is to build the rhythm. Anyway, there's no there's no right or wrong.

Taste Is Subjective In Writing

SPEAKER_01 9:50

It's you know, walking into an art gallery, who loves what? You know, all of the it's subjective. If you're asking people what is the best logo, you know, once you get past whether it's going to reproduce effectively, whether it will print out okay in black and white, and whether if it whether whether the text is so small or swirly that you won't be able to see it if you have to print it out at the size of a postage stamp, everything beyond that is is subjective again.

SPEAKER_00 10:18

So but how many listeners are actually nodding their head at this now? I would imagine there's quite a few of us that have gone, if I'd listened to so-and-so, maybe uh, you know, maybe I should have done it that way, maybe I shouldn't. But actually, you can get ten designers in a room, web designers, and they're all got graphic designers. Any kinds of graphic designers have a completely different idea of what works.

SPEAKER_01 10:37

Think about the clashes we used to have with graphic designers when we were sub-editors and newspaper designers.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

We had some lovely, interesting discussions around.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

No, I don't want white space, then stop locking it to the bloody baseline grid.

SPEAKER_00 10:48

Baseline grid. Oh, bro.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

For anyone who doesn't know, it's when you've got a page laid out in front of you on the computer, and there's there are tiny lines already kind of set into the makeup of the page, and if you click lock to baseline grid, any block of text that you layer on that. It's like fuzzy felts. You put a block in and then you put text in it, then another block and another block. And if you lock it to the baseline grid, all of the text boxes level up. But it means Yes, Gladys, exactly as Gladys. Gladys doing a great big sigh. I know, Gladys, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

Thank you. We didn't get didn't train her for that at all. But that was a perfect timing. Well done, Gladys. You totally agree, obviously.

SPEAKER_01 11:26

Anyway, if they lock it to the baseline grid, everything lines up perfectly, but you end up with great big gaps between the blocks of text that shouldn't be there. And I always maintained back in the day, if you were going to be a sub-editor, that's the person who designs the pages on the newspapers. Yeah. You should be able to look at that page and see if the spacing is right, if the tracking and the leading is right, if there's too much squeeze on a headline, without locking things to grid. Yeah. So I'd be forever. If I've our in fact, it's our last publishing house we both worked out. No, the type one before last. Yeah. When we were still at Nexus. Yeah. Very often the graphic design team would also be the ones that would come up and try and help sort out computer problems.

SPEAKER_00 12:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:10

And nine times out of ten, if I'd had a computer issue and then went to design a page after they'd left, the bloody baseline grid would be back on.

SPEAKER_00 12:20

Don't you think I'm not gonna notice? This is baseline grid fury now. Sorry everybody, but yeah. Yeah. But can you? But back to so we were using websites as an example of that, weren't we? Logos, logos we were talking about. But that you know, there's so many different approaches you can take to that. So if you're talking to people, sometimes

Design Opinions And Picking A Lane

SPEAKER_00 12:40

I think it's almost put simply, it's like pick a lane, isn't it? Because if you pick so many lanes, you're gonna end up going nowhere, trying to go all over the place and not actually get anywhere. You're gonna get lost in all those lanes, aren't you?

SPEAKER_01 12:52

Do you not find that a lot of the time this the indecision thing and where we get swamped and caught in this big decision trap is when people are too caught in their heads and are not tuned into their gut. Yeah, gut feel.

SPEAKER_00 13:04

There's a lot to be said for that, isn't there?

SPEAKER_01 13:06

And people in business will then be absolutely convinced that the reason they are not as rich as they'd like to be, as as successful as they think they could be, as popular, getting as much coverage, getting enough cash, getting enough clients, they will be absolutely convinced that it's because I don't know, I haven't got my LinkedIn bio right. And so their LinkedIn bio and headline will start changing like every six weeks, and there'll be posts about it every time saying I've just done this and finally it's how I want it to be. Yeah. Till the next time it's nothing to do with your bio. If it says what you do, yeah, we could go into the nuance of it, but essentially it's it's too easy to think my business, my life, my energy, my personality, my outlook is not working because of this, and then keep tinkering whatever with whatever the this is without recognising that actually no, it's an inside job and it starts with you.

SPEAKER_00 14:03

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Always for everything. Absolutely with everything, isn't it? Yeah without fail. Yeah. So why would this not be any different? Totally. So, okay, so what what else do we want to talk about?

SPEAKER_01 14:15

Just before we go off that, can you think of any time where you've canvassed loads of opinion and it's and ended up worse off for you?

SPEAKER_00 14:22

Well, you know the one, I think we've mentioned it on here, but I always refer to it because it's the one that so nearly was disastrous, really, for me. Yeah, because of I know that because the love for this particular thing is still within me. Oh, just fucked within it. So I've talked about it I think two or three times on the podcast, but it's pertinent for for this one too. And it's my beautiful logo for turquoise tiger press.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

It's the logo, was it? It's the name.

SPEAKER_00 14:45

It's the name and the logo, both, yes.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

Back when it was just turquoise tiger. Yeah, so turquoise tiger pressure. Branch of Turquoise Tiger.

SPEAKER_00 14:55

I spent I spoke to a few people in business that I knew through networking quite a lot, actually. And I was very grateful for their time and their opinions. But in the end, I had this one particular look for the brand, and then coming out of that was the logo that came with it as well. And I absolutely loved it, and I still do. I love the colour, I love what it means. There's an amazing story behind Turquoise Tiger, which again I think I've spoken about on previous episodes. Yeah, but I, you know, canvassed this opinion and got all these opinions, but there were just one or two, and then there was somebody in particular.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

There was one person, was there, wasn't there? And ironically, it wasn't somebody you'd canvassed.

SPEAKER_00 15:34

No. It was somebody else.

SPEAKER_01 15:35

And then they gave me their Well, it came back through other people. All these people coming to us going, such and such doesn't get your brand.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

I thought they did actually come to me. And then we also had the words. Okay, God, false memory. Yeah. I can't remember. Go on then, you tell it better than me. No, no, no, no. So it was, yes, so therefore, then it was what happened next.

SPEAKER_01 15:54

Well, you know you nearly changed it, and they were saying they didn't like the brand because they couldn't tell what it did. And back then, it's when we were working together on and launching Turquoise Tiger.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

Full Service Digital Media PR training agency.

SPEAKER_00 16:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

And we deliberately gave it a name that could be anything because we wanted to be able to, you know, mould the business as we chose. We just wanted something that was exciting and different and captured imagination. And this one person fed back to other people who'd been talking about it that it didn't make sense because it should say what it does.

SPEAKER_00 16:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

So I don't know the din. If you'd been a mechanic, it should your business name should name should be Jimmy Jones Fixes Cars. That's right. Unless your name wasn't Jimmy Jones, that would just get confusing. But uh yeah, it you were really wobbling, weren't you? Oh, I was total wobble about it. I dug my heels and I went, no, it's everybody else's, you're great, we love it. Go.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:52

I was so scared of rocking the boat, but hey, hang on a minute. This is our boat to rock. If we were to rock the boat, it's our boat. Why would we not rock it if we don't want to?

SPEAKER_01 17:01

But if if every business name actually said what the business did. Oh, it's ridiculous. Imagine aliens coming to this planet and looking a virgin.

SPEAKER_00 17:10

Interesting. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:11

You know? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:12

So it's just Yeah, but it's amazing how close I went to saying no, we can't do that. I think I think you did, and I thought back until you came back around again. I don't quite remember it like that, Taz, actually. No, I think that's very, very nicely put in there at that time. No, I think I also eventually came around. Eventually. I did. Yes, I did.

SPEAKER_01 17:29

So particularly after having gone so far with the Red Wolf brand. Yeah, that's a good thing. That's another story for another day. We still have talked about that.

SPEAKER_00 17:38

We have talked about that. But again, showing you that don't, you know, don't let that sway your because again, that gut feel, certainly for you initially, really early on with that, was absolutely this is gonna work. It's gonna be amazing. We could see how the brand was gonna work, what it was gonna look like in terms of you know, all the the logos and stuff that went with it and everything else.

SPEAKER_01 17:56

I remember in corporate when I was recruiting, and there was one particular role I was recruiting for. And it yeah, I know Gladys, I felt like that too. Yeah, I do too. I it got down to two, and it was the only time in my career that I let it go to vote with my team members. Yeah. And they overrode me, and I went with the person they chose.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

And it was the worst hire I had ever made in my life. Oh, I know that one. Yes, I remember that.

SPEAKER_01 18:29

And I think they probably overrode me because they knew it would be disastrous and they wanted to have a good giggle at my expense, to be fair.

SPEAKER_00 18:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

But it was hideous. So no, go with your gut, go with

When Other People Derail Your Gut

SPEAKER_01 18:40

your gut. So why is it? I mean, we've touched on this a little bit already. I I think it's people who have lost contact with their gut and get stuck in their, they've become a head dragging around a body. People who are way too brain-based. Why is it that we think people reach for other people's opinions when they're uncertain? Is it actually about not having enough information? Is it insecurity? Is or is there something else going on? We know what I think. What do you think?

SPEAKER_00 19:06

I think it is insecurity. I mean, from personal experience, I think for me it was self-it was about self-believing, courage of my own convictions, so actually seeing things through, is this actually a good idea, or am I just really naive? Is it gonna get, you know, taken down by others? Is this right? You start to doubt yourself, self-doubt. So I think for me personally, yes, a lot of the times when I have kind of you know given into, if you like, the the majority vote, as it were, then that's probably the reason why for me. There's other stuff at play as well though. What about you? Because you've I know what we talked about a little bit before we started.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

There's a difference, isn't there, with my coaching head on. There's a difference, isn't there, between uh needing input or wanting input and using getting opinions as a way to just avoid making the call.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:55

That's another biggie.

SPEAKER_00 19:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

So if we're in a position of needing to make a decision and we're getting really, really tempted to just go out and put this out to the popul put this out to the general populace, then we've got to be really honest with ourselves and look into why it is we're doing that. I mean the other the argument for it is it's bloody good for social media algorithms.

SPEAKER_00 20:17

I've got to say that's a great thing to do.

SPEAKER_01 20:19

I've just had some new professional photos done. Which one of these should be my profile picture?

SPEAKER_00 20:23

Exactly, it's a great way to do it, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 20:26

But also know which one you actually want to use.

SPEAKER_00 20:29

Yeah.

unknown 20:29

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:30

And just go with it. If you don't care, fine, go with the go with the majority. But if you if you've got one that you particularly love, and then people overrule you, what are you gonna do? Does that mean you were wrong?

SPEAKER_00 20:41

So do you think that strip that drives a lot of people now because of the advent of social media and this and people more and more people using this technique, if you like? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:50

Yeah, it's in terms of it's the new croutons or bacon bits. Yeah. Isn't it? Yeah. That's that's all it is.

SPEAKER_00 20:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:57

So what what else? What what happens then when you ask two people you trust, yeah, and they give you completely different advice.

SPEAKER_00 21:08

Oh why does that feel so uncomfortable? It feels uncomfortable because I'd be looking okay. Obviously, you always like to sit on the fence, doesn't most things until my it hurts my bum. It spruces out, yeah. I know. You're always calling me on that one and quite right this a lot of the time. But I think sometimes you need to look at both of those and kind of find, then tune into your own gut. What did your gut tell you? What where did you go back to the beginning? What started this down this you down this train of thought and these ideas? Because initially it came from you. Yeah. So then I would be looking at what they've offered me, what they've suggested. Does that tie in in any way to what I was thinking about at the time? Do they tie in with my you know similar value sets? Is it more in tune? Do you know what I mean? I'd be looking back to my original ideas and the concepts. Ideas I've come up with, and then I'd be looking at the two that have offered that those suggestions and looking for things that are kind of that tie in together. I don't know, so I would be looking at both. I don't know how I'd choose. I don't think I could choose one.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

It's a bit like getting married and choosing and having to choose between your two best people for your best person. Yeah, I mean two best mates.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

Initially you'd be there forever, though, wouldn't you, if you were doing that, I suppose. Sooner or later you've got to, you know, as your lovely phrase. Shit'll get off the pot.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

Yeah. It's not my phrase, it's actually if you happen to be listening, Jane Young, it's Jane Young's phrase.

SPEAKER_00 22:33

Okay, sorry Jane, I do, I missed commuda does.

SPEAKER_01 22:36

But it's a bloody brilliant one.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

Yeah, it's off the pot. Yeah, so what would you do in that situation then? I think I know what you do, but go on.

SPEAKER_01 22:43

I wouldn't ask the two people I trust most anyway.

SPEAKER_00 22:47

I know, because what if they're not they've got no understanding of the industry you're in, the business you're in, the work you do.

SPEAKER_01 22:53

Let's say you're two best mates and you want to ask something about the logistics of running a small business. One of them works for a corporate. Yeah. One of them is a stay-at-home mum or dad who's who's never run a business. How are either of them going to be able to objectively help you? And and the other thing that can skew this is you often find that your best mate will want to protect you and will want you to stay safe and not get into the ship.

SPEAKER_00 23:22

Ah, so you're not gonna they're not gonna push you necessarily out of your comfort zone a bit with or No, they're gonna give you the safest possible route. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

Or they're gonna be somebody who takes much bigger risks than you and they'll be, yeah, put it all on black, you know. Yeah, oh crumbs, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

I know how that ends. I've been there before, right now. Ever invite me to a casino. Seriously, I'm dangerous in a casino. Yeah. But yeah, okay, so that's yeah, that makes total sense. So why would you do why would you do that in the first place?

SPEAKER_01 23:53

If I'm not sure, I'll go away and do my research, and then if it comes down to two items, that's something I want to buy or invest in, yeah, if it comes down to two that are more or less the same, then I'll just go, okay. Which one fits in more with my ecosystem?

SPEAKER_00 24:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:11

Which one do I just like the look of more? And if you really don't have any objective sway either way, then just pick one. Doesn't matter, does it?

SPEAKER_00 24:24

Yeah, pick a lane and we're back to that again, aren't we?

SPEAKER_01 24:27

Yeah. And then the other thing is what if it's not something to do with your business as such? I it's not it's not a concept you've come up with. What if you're going out there looking for advice on something and you get two experts in air quotes giving you a quoting advice? How many times when in the early days of Tiger where we were still training a lot of people on social media? Yeah. Did we be happen to be in the room at some kind of business event or something where there was another social media trainer?

SPEAKER_00 24:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:54

And we knew that the advice they were giving was completely out of date.

SPEAKER_00 24:59

Oh, yeah. We've been there, we had that happen a few times.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

Yeah, I remember there was one where we went to this social media training day, it was one of the Chamber of Train things or something like that. It wasn't that, but it was something like that.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

Yeah, it was one of those sorts of organisations. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

And it was back in the days of Twitter, before Elon cocked it all up. Yeah. And we were quite big on Twitter at the time because it would have been in the Tweeting Times days.

SPEAKER_00 25:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:24

And the trainer there to all these small business owners, all these solopreneurs, these sole traders went, Oh, I don't really understand Twitter, just stay away from it and focus on Facebook.

SPEAKER_00 25:33

And we're like, our best business year because you know Twitter. Stephen Fry gave us a big thumbs up and we we appeared on national television. Boy George, you know, weren't we? Yeah. And it was like, what's he talking about? What's he talking about? What do you do in a situation like that?

SPEAKER_01 25:50

Yeah. Sam Fox just gave loads of money to charity to stop us singing on there. You know. Very cool, actually. That was a good call. It was a wise, wise meeting. It was a good call. The the the point is though, exactly that. You you're not always gonna know what's right and what's wrong. So rather than just asking for opinions, it's a bit like people who base their politics on whatever the newspaper they read says or whatever that bloke down the pub says.

SPEAKER_02 26:18

Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

And you know, no, go away, do your own research, look at all the different options, even the ones that you think you really wouldn't like.

SPEAKER_00 26:26

Yeah. Research, research, research. Research. Education, education, education, education, education, education. But yeah, you it's that's so true of everything, isn't it? With that, particularly when it's you know, it's the about the development of your business, your brand, yeah, isn't it? Yeah, your customer base, etc. etc. Why would you not go away and get us gather as much information as you can so that you can really get, you know, get a good overview of your own. And then you can make your own mind up.

SPEAKER_01 26:53

And then whatever happens, you know that yes, you might say it's your fault if it goes wrong. Actually, it's just data. If it goes really, really right, that's your fault too. You know, when things don't go as you play as you hoped, it just gives you data to enable you to come back and do things better. I don't know what we're so afraid of. Yeah. So why does it backfire then? So the the things we want to be talking about under why things backfire like this, being able to name these patterns without touching any shame or blame to them, because we all, you know, we all do these things from time to time. I don't know why you're looking at me like that, Tess. I'm I'm agreeing.

SPEAKER_00 27:37

Yeah, you agree. We've but we all You're agreeing with yourself. I'm agreeing with myself. I'm probably not agreeing with you, but I am. No, I am, really.

SPEAKER_01 27:45

So we've touched I wasn't saying you'd done it more than me. I was saying I was judging. I need to give it an opinion of all the listeners. Does she mean it? So we've kind of touched on this one opinion collecting that's really procrastination, but we're kind of dressing it up and pretending that it's it's doing our due diligence.

SPEAKER_00 28:05

I can't possibly get on with that. I'm still research, I'm researching at the moment. I'm just putting it out. I need to

Insecurity Or Avoiding The Call

SPEAKER_00 28:10

get some feedback from people before I get on and do that. Yeah, I've done that one countless times. Yes, yes, yes, guilty, Your Honour.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

Yeah. Asking people, we touched on this too, asking people who love you but can't actually help you. The safe advice from and I've had this with the club. I'm not gonna go into details because it's not fair on the client, but I know there was one client when I was trying to encourage them to expand their comfort zone a little bit, yeah, and they went and got advice from somebody who knew them from a completely different walk of life and knew would agree with them, and then came back and said, Well, I've asked Blar and they've said, Right, and are they suddenly an expert in this particular arena we're talking about? No, but they know me and I don't know you. Well, yes, but right. So you went to that person so that it would back you up, yes. That's pretty convenient, isn't it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:00

Staying where you are.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

The other thing, and I don't think people always do this on purpose. Well, it's that they say, What should I do? When what they actually mean is please can you agree with me?

SPEAKER_00 29:12

This one makes me cringe a bit because the number of times I've done that with you, when we've had I've had those moments in my business when I've said, Taz, what should I do? And then she'll give me a brilliant answer, makes perfect sense, and I think, F that, I'm not gonna do that. And I say, and then you'll say, Well, what do you usually say then? You'll say, Do you got a one-line?

SPEAKER_01 29:32

Ask me for advice if you don't want to.

SPEAKER_00 29:33

Exactly that. Well, there you go, fair point. But I've done that so many times.

SPEAKER_01 29:37

But now, if you ask me that, I've taken said, Do you actually want me to give you advice? Do you want or do you want me to just listen to you and give you support? Don't ask for my opinion if you don't want an opinion.

SPEAKER_00 29:50

How am I going to do that? I've d I've done it so many times, so many times, and then don't you don't hear what like what's coming back the other way. No. Yeah. Hard pill to swallow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:01

But if if what you really need is some validation. What if you go to the people closest to you? Little bit of a stroke.

SPEAKER_00 30:08

A little bit of stroking.

SPEAKER_01 30:09

I did that's quite nice.

SPEAKER_00 30:11

I'm stroking your shoulder now. Your shoulder, there you go. There you go.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

Oh yeah, of course that started with the dragon before it turned into a sleeve, didn't it? Yeah. Still a dragon in there somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 30:21

That bizarre. I was like a dragon as opposed to having a tattoo of a sleeve. The way you said it, that's where my head fell.

SPEAKER_01 30:28

Yes, I have a shirt sleeve tattooed on my arm, complete with cufflinks.

SPEAKER_00 30:33

No point to get shirt, no point in getting shirty tat. Anyway, carry on. That was really bad. I couldn't even deliver the punchline. Carry on.

SPEAKER_01 30:39

So I'm probably thinking that if you wanted to have put if you did have a shirt sleeve tattooed, you could have little piercings for the cuff links. Oh, cufflinks, that might be quite cool actually. Yeah. Anyway. Yeah, go on then. We've got some converse. She she was tattooed on our feet. The point is, if if what you really need is a bit of validation.

SPEAKER_00 31:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:00

And a bit like stroking.

SPEAKER_00 31:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:02

What if you just asked for that? Why are we so embarrassed to say that?

SPEAKER_00 31:07

Well it makes us look weak, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01 31:10

But sometimes we all are a little bit weak and need a bit of a top-up.

SPEAKER_00 31:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:14

Yeah, it's can can I I'm feeling a little bit insecure today. Can you give me a hug, please? Can I have a hug? Or I'm feeling a little bit insecure today. If you hate that this, that's fine, but can you just keep it to yourself and tell me it's wonderful? Tell people what you want. When you ask for what you want, in my experience, people are ridiculously keen to help. Yeah. If you actually tell them what you want.

SPEAKER_00 31:38

Yeah. Good point. Good point.

SPEAKER_01 31:41

What else? Letting somebody else's confidence override override your own gut feel.

SPEAKER_00 31:48

I think quiet and knowing. I've been in situations like that. I've been actually in many meetings ago, networking meetings where you've you've got something that's very kind of Bolshy? Yeah, bolshy in your face, kind of full of you know confidence, almost to the point of a bit too ego-y for my liking. But will absolutely be really keen to give you advice. But it's like, and this is why it would work, and this is what and the whole thing is quite I want to say quite an aggressive tactic in a way, which makes me will make me shrink even more and like go and just nod quietly and do the the good girl thing if you like, and just nod and you know agree with it. But actually, even though deep down you know I knew in those situations that my gut feel was saying the completely opposite to that. But you know, they must know what they're talking about because they're loud and proud and they're really confident and they're they're obviously very knowledgeable, but the two don't always go together.

SPEAKER_01 32:46

It's a bit like that that reminds me of the Quite the opposite, actually. The coaching red flag I used to talk about a lot, and I still do, where every now and then you meet a coach who seems to be really competent, and then you watch and you observe and you look at what's going on with their clients for a while, and you realise that they meet someone, they make this snap judgment about what they think they should be that would be brilliant for them. Yeah. And then rather than coaching the person and just pulling out of them what they want, they spend their time manipulating and moulding them into this version that they think they should be.

SPEAKER_00 33:16

Ooh, yucky.

SPEAKER_01 33:18

And that's hideous. That's that's manipulation, taking things a step too far.

SPEAKER_00 33:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:22

That's an extension of keep building your own empire through other people.

SPEAKER_00 33:26

Yeah, don't like that at all.

SPEAKER_01 33:28

And we talked earlier about the obligation thing when you ask somebody for advice and then feel that you've you've got to follow it as well. So of these things we've been talking about, which do you recognise most in yourself or in some of the people that you've coached or mentored?

unknown 33:44

Oh god.

SPEAKER_00 33:45

Pretty much all of them at various times, I think. I mean the the ones we've just spoken about, particularly, but I think all of it at various points. I think it all it also depends on where you are in your own business, your career, your confidence levels, doesn't it? I think there's stages that are certainly that I've gone through where I've, you know, some of those they've all affected me at different times. What about you? Would you say the same for you or not?

SPEAKER_01 34:08

Yeah, but I'm also thinking about what happens

Validation Disguised As Advice

SPEAKER_01 34:10

if we flip this on its head. Okay. So is there such a thing as asking too few people? Where's the line between seeking general, genuinely useful perspective and just going down a rabbit hole? Yeah. Done that one too. And the other one that springs to mind is when we're running circle on the big one, yeah, you know, we will often say that if you it's a it's a sizable circle, we we cap it at 21 people. But in these kinds of situations, nine times out of ten, you will find a couple of people who either are drawn to each other a little bit too much, which is why we have quite clear rules in circle, or more often, find people who can a couple of people who really clash. And we can sit back and look and think they've they've they've been called together for a reason here. There's there's a real opportunity for them to learn from one another. But we will always say that if you can, if you have some kind of issue with someone, you go to that person and you go to a to them from the place of the chief, the place of balance and clarity. Go listen to the episode on the big one from the first series if you want to find out more about that, and just explain that I'm I'm getting quite triggered because of this, it's not because of you, it's clearly something inside of me, and whatever it is about you is showing me there's something I want to I need to work on. But can we have a chat and just see if we can work something out? It might be you feel the same way about me. And I've seen people do that and get the most brilliant growth from it and end up as the best of friends. But the thing that you have to guard against is when people will then just seek out some trusted individuals to talk about it with first.

SPEAKER_00 35:51

To back up what their own opinions, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:54

And the danger with doing that is you can end up with a with a bit, and I'm not talking just about the big one now, I'm talking in life in general. Networking events, particularly women's networking events got nothing against them, but some of them get way too clicky. Women can be proper beeches sometimes, can't we? We have such immense power, such immense potential to create real positive change. And then you go into a scenario where the first thing they do is look you up and down, check to see if the soles of your shoes are red, and if they're not, then move on.

SPEAKER_00 36:27

Go for it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:28

Bailey's having a drink. Bailey's having a drink of water. There's I've just completely lost my thread. What was I talking about? Bailey, you've just put me right off, dude.

SPEAKER_00 36:39

He's come up here, hang on a second.

SPEAKER_01 36:40

Bailey's the cockpoo in case you've you've missed that from previous episodes. I really have forgotten what we're saying.

SPEAKER_00 36:47

Well, so have I now, don't, because he's completely disrupted my train of thought. We were talking, hang on, you were talking about BHs.

SPEAKER_01 36:53

We talked about we were talking about whether it was whether there was such a thing as asking too few. Oh yes, that was it. When you when you think that there's there's an issue with one person, and rather than going to that person direct and working it out, you start canvassing opinion with the people around them. Yeah. Which means either we go really mean girls, I don't my friend doesn't like you, so I don't like you either. You know. Or we tend to perpetuate and build the story. So then if you're not careful, well, you might start out going, I'll just go over here. Before I go direct, I'll just come and come and come over here and just check that I'm not being completely irrational. By the end of it, it's built into such a drama that the person they needed to go and talk to is now outcast even more. And that's where division comes. It's like, why do you need to go and canvass that kind of opinion?

SPEAKER_00 37:46

Whereas you could have just gone to that person, had that conversation, and who knows what would have come out of that that could have been really positive.

SPEAKER_01 37:54

And if you can't then solve it, then go to somebody who can perhaps mediate if the situation calls for that.

SPEAKER_00 38:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:02

Think about that in relationships. I wonder how many relationships have actually gone down the pan because on the back of an argument or something, I'm I'm going to be terribly heterosexual for this, just to put paint a picture. So maybe she goes off and bitches to all her friends about how awful he is. He goes off and talks to all his mates about how awful she is, and then the drama builds on both sides because of all these uh these helpful opinions. Yeah. Until these people who were blissfully in love and just had one little sticking point have now been convinced that they're bad for each other and they need to separate. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:38

Sometimes I wonder how often that's happened. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:41

Sometimes canvassing opinions isn't a good thing to do.

SPEAKER_00 38:47

Sorry, I got I got distracted then by Bailey. Oh no, sorry. I'm sitting here stroking the dog. So I am really carry on. Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. I'm having a swig of water now, so you carry on for a second.

SPEAKER_01 39:04

And the on the point we were talking about earlier about people who are afraid that they might get a bad outcome. And again, I'm still not convinced there's really a bad outcome. There's just something we can learn from. There's something that might not be what we desired, but something that's going to be equally valuable if we take the

Gossip Spirals And Relationship Fallout

SPEAKER_01 39:20

lessons and grow from it. I think where that sometimes gets muddied and stops people making an opinion is if they struggle to differentiate between a in in air quotes bad outcome and then being a bad person or a business and again in air quotes failure and them being a failure. Ooh. When it all becomes they layer it on top of themselves and it becomes it becomes a brand, becomes branded into their skin.

SPEAKER_00 39:50

Oh god, that's awful, isn't it? How many people do you think go down that route and go down that but a lot do? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:56

I am a failure, therefore.

SPEAKER_00 39:59

That's my stomach right now.

SPEAKER_01 40:00

But you can't worry. You can't you cannot create a success without having been through a few failures. It failures. If you've never been through any failures, then you're not trying hard enough, frankly. You can't possibly succeed.

SPEAKER_00 40:12

That's the old thing, isn't it? About, you know, that's growth.

SPEAKER_01 40:15

Yeah, you're not failing, you're learning to succeed.

SPEAKER_00 40:17

Yeah. You think about all the big businesses, the big brands now, you know, the Bransons of the world. Yeah. You know, if they'd done that and just given up on that first thing and those, if they'd layered all those things in that way, it would never have happened, would it? Their businesses would never have made that successful.

SPEAKER_01 40:34

Whenever I'm sharing that story, whether it's in a talk or online on a stage or anything, but whatever, if there's an image to be used for it, always use this an image of a kid on a bike with stabilizers. Because I think most of us can relate to that to learning to ride a bike and having the stabilizers on.

SPEAKER_00 40:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:50

And then they come off, usually one at a time.

SPEAKER_00 40:53

I can still remember that in my uh down the road from my house. And it was on it was on a slope. Yeah. And I can remember someone forgetting where the brakes were.

SPEAKER_01 41:02

And did you your dad or somebody coming behind you holding the back of your seat?

SPEAKER_00 41:06

My brother-in-law. Your brother-in-law. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:07

So he goes behind you holding the back of the seat and then without you knowing, before you know it, he's let go and go, You're doing it!

SPEAKER_00 41:13

You're doing it. Yeah, and because it was on a slight slope as well, it went quite a speed. That was Uncle Rob for me. Yeah, see? So, yeah. So that was another Robert. So that's two Roberts, because that was my brother-in-law Robert.

SPEAKER_01 41:23

But imagine if you never took the stabilizers off. Or you fell off your bike once and put the stabilizers straight back on again.

SPEAKER_00 41:29

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:34

I suppose that's the people who ride tricycles. I was gonna say that was that was I would like a good Harley dub driver.

SPEAKER_00 41:41

Oh, I would as well, though. That would be really good. I know. There was a bit of a moment there, wasn't there? What'd you call it? A What's it called? Ah, she was now making like a spring shape in the air with a finger. What do I mean? I don't know. A loop? No, what's it moment when it's you? You see it go past. It's a tumbleweed. Tumbleweed moment. That's it. Can you think of doing that like that? I knew what I meant. Just keep making the way. It's been a long day, Taz. I told you we're far too late recording this. But yeah, tumbleweed.

SPEAKER_01 42:12

And then there's another tumbleweed now. How much of the how much of the advice seeking is actually about finding someone with whom you feel you can share the responsibility if it doesn't quite go as planned, so you don't feel it's all on you. Oh and I know this is one of the things that we trip up on sometimes. Oh, when you're yeah, when you'll say, Well, well, if you were me, how would you do it? You know, there's an there's a decision that I know you have the capability to make. Uh oh. And you'll keep doing that. Yeah, but which one? But I don't know, but which one? And then eventually you'll go, but if you were me, what would you do? It's like that.

SPEAKER_00 42:50

No, that is one of my yeah, I do use it.

SPEAKER_01 42:51

So you are effectively trying to hand the responsibility to me so that if it goes tits up, you can go You told me to do it. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 42:59

Yeah, I've used that quite a few times. I think so. I haven't for it.

SPEAKER_01 43:04

Beware if you're gonna do that, because you can get really, really pissy if I see through it. Yeah, well I'm just asking for some help. No, you're not. You're asking me to take on your responsibility.

SPEAKER_00 43:12

It's difficult, is it, really, now to see through it? It's soaking and opaque. Is opaque the right word? I don't know at this time of night, guys. Transparent? Transparent, that's the word. Tumbleweed, transparent tumbleweeds. All the T's.

SPEAKER_01 43:30

So we I started to talk to you about how what you see in your clients from you know, from your position as a book mentor, a coach, a trainer, from a coaching

Failure As Data Not Identity

SPEAKER_01 43:40

perspective. What does chronic indecision really point to? What's underneath it?

SPEAKER_00 43:48

It's fear, isn't it? It's fear of going it alone. It comes back to that fear of making a decision and running with it. And what if, all the what ifs, you know, those that those two horrible what Words, what if? Yeah. You know, what if this happens? What if that doesn't happen? What if they don't like it? What if they don't like that idea? What if it doesn't make me any money? What if I I don't know, lose my house because I've put money into this project?

SPEAKER_01 44:13

What if people don't like me?

SPEAKER_00 44:15

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:17

All of those. All the what if. So it's fear and security, it's a it's a head-heart disconnect. All of those things. All of those. So to move this on a bit a bit then, she says looking at the notes she made earlier.

SPEAKER_00 44:34

I'm glad you've done your homework because you can tell that I haven't.

SPEAKER_01 44:36

I knew I wouldn't remember it all if I didn't give myself a few bullets.

SPEAKER_00 44:39

I'm like, come on then. There are a lot.

SPEAKER_01 44:43

I don't know if we can do that. I've got the energy.

SPEAKER_00 44:44

If you were not. If you were me, how would you impress you? I've got there at the same time if we got there at the same time. It takes years of practice that apparently.

SPEAKER_01 44:55

There are a lot of people out there who confuse fear with good instinct or dismiss genuine intuition of wishful as wishful thinking. I e is that really sign, is that really my intuition, or is it just because I want that to happen? Or am I really being stared away from that because I'm scared? You know, so how do you tell the difference between what is genuine into intuit?

SPEAKER_00 45:24

You've done so well because you haven't, then you then know, and then right on the There I go.

SPEAKER_01 45:28

It's usually when I'm tired, which is most days. Yeah. Thank goodness I don't do it. That watch on stage, that would be bad. Where's where's the line? How do you tell? How can you work out if this is your genuine intuition, gut feel, you want to whatever you want to call it, guidance? How do you know if it's guidance or wishful thinking or fear? How do you do that personally? How do you personally tell the difference between actual fear talking, for instance, yeah, and actually taking action? Actual intuition. Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 46:00

I think there's an agitation to the fear. There's almost like bordering on aggressiveness with the fear. Yeah. Whereas with the gut feeling, there's almost like a there's a peace in it. There's a stead there's a stead, there's a calm amongst all of the stuff going on. Suddenly it kind of there's it's like it's like those things in, you know, you get in a movie and it's almost like it you get a it just everything slows down and you just got the focus on that one character, whatever, and everything is in uh everything else is around, but it's not impacting anyway. It's just it's just you and your thoughts and your idea, and it's just a calmness with it. Whereas if it's fear, it's I get ratty, I get agitated, then I get ratty, then I get a bit angry, a bit anxious. Well, if you were me, yeah, exactly. Well, there you go, exactly. But that that's part that's the difference for me, and also I get a very physical reaction to things as well. So, and I know that's a lot of that is to do with my autistic ADHD side of things. I do get like the old um shivers and things, my arms and stuff. I get all the old goosebumps and stuff, which is part like does that display in me then? What do you mean? With the with what for you the difference between fear and intuition?

SPEAKER_01 47:16

How do you spot that in me if I'm afraid and trying to?

SPEAKER_00 47:20

I don't spot the fear very often, if I'm honest. I think No. No, without floating.

SPEAKER_01 47:25

Doesn't mean it's not there, but maybe that's just because I've done I did the work first. I think you No, I don't mean that badly.

SPEAKER_00 47:31

I mean that you are Well that slapped me around the face with a juniper, didn't it?

SPEAKER_01 47:36

No, it's because of where I sit on that ADHD spectrum. I would rather go and sit and come and and and work with it and come to you with I think I'm gonna go for this, what do you think?

SPEAKER_00 47:46

Whereas I'll just go be in the moment when you're gonna be able to do it.

SPEAKER_01 47:48

Whereas you will bring me in right in the beginning. Yeah. That's the way it should be. No, there's no right or wrong.

SPEAKER_00 47:54

I'd argue, it's better to be in that space, I think.

SPEAKER_01 47:57

Okay, so when we were when we bought the DJ Osmo 4, yeah, if I'd just said to you, I'm thinking about getting a a compact mini camera for podcasting, yeah, what would you have done?

SPEAKER_00 48:10

What would I have done? I probably would have said to you, how much is it?

SPEAKER_01 48:14

No, if you if you were the if you were gonna say, well, I'll go and get one, yeah, what would you do? I've not given you any brands, anything, I've just said we want a compact video thang.

SPEAKER_00 48:24

What would I do? Yeah. I'd go away and research it. Yeah, would you? Yeah, of course I would. You'd go away and research it, look at it, yeah, see what else is out there that does the same kind of thing. Yeah. What do I get? What bang how much bang do I get from your butt? Yeah. I think I'm going about money again, but I am a bit of a tight one sometimes with things like that.

SPEAKER_01 48:43

And you would eventually come to me with a list of how many?

SPEAKER_00 48:46

I don't know, three, four, three maybe?

SPEAKER_01 48:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:50

Whereas I narrowed it down more, which doesn't make yours wrong.

SPEAKER_00 48:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:54

But again, then it came down for me to it to ecosystem.

SPEAKER_00 48:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 48:58

Oh no, we ended up going for the one that was probably the more costly of them. Incidentally, for anyone listening who is trying to get something like that, they've just started popping up adverts of what looks to be an absolute copy on TMU. No idea if it's going to be any good.

SPEAKER_00 49:14

It'll probably only be like an eighth of an inch long or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 49:17

Probably. For a doll's house. But I'm glad I've got the the the DJ. That for me, once I came down, came down to like I got it down to two, I think.

SPEAKER_00 49:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:27

And then I went, which one's going to fit in with our eco system? Yeah. Well, we've already got the the the DJI microphones, the ones we are using now. So will that work with that microphone system already? Yes. So then that became easy. It's like, well, why do I have an iPhone? I've got a MacBook Air. Somewhere there's an iPad that we need to get repaired.

SPEAKER_00 49:51

It's trusting, isn't it? That you've done that you've done due diligence, you've done your research, you've done all of that, you've done that, and now you can take it forward.

SPEAKER_01 50:00

But do you know what stops me getting too hat up over that when it's tech?

SPEAKER_00 50:04

Yeah, gone.

SPEAKER_01 50:05

Because I know that probably in six months' time, even if if if that another product will have come out, which is better. Yeah. And I'll be like, I want that one. And I'm I've grown out of that now. You know, every time a new phone came out, days passed it. It didn't matter if I had to pay over the odds and I'd go and get the new phone. You'd have it on the dust. Especially back in the days when the fashion was the tiny little micro clamshell phones.

SPEAKER_00 50:29

Yeah, I remember those.

SPEAKER_01 50:30

Yeah, I wanted one the same as Scullies in the X-Files, and I got it.

SPEAKER_00 50:35

Yeah. And blackberries, blackberries as well. I know. With the little rollerball in the middle. Yeah, so cool.

SPEAKER_01 50:42

That started off silver and then eventually the silver would come off and it'd go kind of ivory.

SPEAKER_00 50:46

You had like a maroon cherry red, that was it. It was very nice.

SPEAKER_01 50:50

Yeah, I had a couple of those. Yeah. But yeah, back in the day. And then it was well, do I want a blackberry though? Or do I want a palm pilot?

SPEAKER_00 50:56

Oh yeah. Apologies to our younger listeners. Yeah, some sort of showing our age again.

SPEAKER_01 51:00

Google is your friend. But yeah, I think

Fear Versus Intuition In The Body

SPEAKER_01 51:05

I think that's the difference. If if I'm afraid of something and I recognise I'm afraid of something, that triggers something deeply inside me that goes, you, yeah. You're not stopping me. Right, I'll go and learn all about you then, and then I can then I can find out how I dismiss the fear.

SPEAKER_00 51:19

But isn't that though? That's so true for you with lots of things. So for me and trustfuls, let's not talk about those tonight.

SPEAKER_01 51:25

I was just going to say, actually, trustfuls is a is a good idea. Okay, good. When you were talking about that earlier, when you were talking about the, you know, you either let the fear come in and there's agitation and all of this, or you find that place of just stillness and the space opens up. That for me felt very much like a trustful.

SPEAKER_00 51:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:42

Which we haven't done with the current 13 month yet.

SPEAKER_00 51:45

No. Uh-oh.

SPEAKER_01 51:47

We might be doing it this weekend. Uh-oh. Might have already been planned, and I deliberately didn't tell you because I knew you'd panic.

SPEAKER_00 51:53

Oh, that's great then. Anyway, suddenly I'm going to think of ways that I can. Oh, I've got to stay home and look after the cat.

SPEAKER_01 51:58

And this will be a real telling about how many people in the 13 month, in the big one, listen to this podcast when it first comes out. Oh, yeah. Because this will come out on the Tuesday. Yeah. And we'll meet on the Friday. Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 52:10

Let's see who has been listening. Who's been listening? Yippee, I can't wait. Do you have to sleep well? Don't have nightmares.

SPEAKER_01 52:17

But there is a moment up there, isn't there, with the people who stand up there on the platform. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 52:21

And just absolutely spent a lot of time on that platform.

SPEAKER_01 52:24

But the ones who absolutely just commit to it, decide trust, and just let go.

SPEAKER_00 52:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:30

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 52:31

And the ones who panic and who she could be talking about, I'm not sure who should be talking about it.

SPEAKER_01 52:35

Don't go stiff enough, end up sitting down halfway through the air, so people are trying to just catch the weight of the backside rather than having the weight into the body.

SPEAKER_00 52:43

I didn't do that, did I?

SPEAKER_01 52:45

No. No, but a lot of people have done that. That's quite common. People try to sit down into it.

SPEAKER_00 52:49

I'll just sit down on the top there so I couldn't move.

SPEAKER_01 52:51

But when you sit down, you're putting all your weight in one place, which means you're more likely to slip through the hands.

SPEAKER_00 53:01

Oh dear, oh dear.

SPEAKER_01 53:02

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

SPEAKER_00 53:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 53:04

So what about for the coaches out there then who are listening to this? How do you help people actually in coaching reconnect with their own instincts when if they've been told if they've spent years being told their read on things is wrong? And actually this is a good place to bring in neurodivergence again, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 53:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 53:23

Because this is another reason why so many people who are neurodivergent, diagnosed or not, struggle to trust their gut because they have spent years and years and years being told that they're too much, they're not enough, they're too loud, they're too quiet, they're too much, they're wrong, their opinion doesn't count. That's a really weird way of looking th looking at things.

SPEAKER_00 53:47

They're not thinking things through, I used to get as well, quite a bit. So you'd be like, too impulsive. Yeah. Too impulsive, yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 53:53

So that's gonna be an that's gonna be another thing that will that will stop people making decisions easily later in life. Yeah. Could that be some of it with you? And you you're much better at making decisions. You're just like, oh, I've seen these things, I thought I might get that. What do you think? Yeah, I've got better. Like yesterday she bought both dry dry hedgehog food and tens of hedgehog food because we've got the hedgehog that's been in our garden.

SPEAKER_00 54:20

Anyone that read I don't know if I put something out on social last year when the amazing my favourite subject coming up, can everybody guess what it's about? When the amazing lionesses, the England women's football team, won the Euros again, back to back Euros, and beat Spain in the final. Yepie! I was so nervous about that that I was outside and I was actually saying hello to our resident Spider? No, hedgehog? Hedgehog, that's the word my brain. I'm disappointed.

SPEAKER_01 54:52

I couldn't tell you that you're still telling me about the hedgehog, or about the time last night where you fed the hedgehog and found a giant spider.

SPEAKER_00 54:58

Oh no, so so anyway, so the hedgehog, I named it Chloe after Chloe Kelly, who won the penalties for us in the Euros. And so I named it and I did a bit of talking about it on social, and the BBC picked it up on one of their live feeds at the time. So this hedgehog, I'm not sure if it's the same hedgehog, but anyway, we've got another hedgehog this year, and I've been feeding it, and all I had in the house was obviously a bit of cat food, so they said that's okay with a bit of water. I've been doing that, but yesterday I sent for some hedgehog wet food and dry food. So tonight she's had a real beautiful banquet.

SPEAKER_01 55:34

And earlier today, dear listeners, my love like love language is much much more on the the side of silly little gift gig giving and pebbling and things. Ashra's love language is quite different. So today she said she'd bought me a gift, told me to close my eyes and open my hands, and I thought, oh wow, this doesn't happen very often. That's that's nice. And I opened my eyes and it was a big tub of hedgehog food.

SPEAKER_00 55:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:58

She had also bought me two books on a reading lamp, to be fair.

SPEAKER_00 56:01

I had, but there you go. But I thought it would be funny for you to do it. It was quite funny. It was because it was quite funny, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_01 56:06

So that's a neurodivergent thing.

SPEAKER_00 56:08

Where were we? I've forgotten.

SPEAKER_01 56:10

We were talking about statistically, statistically, something like ADHD kids have approximately 20,000 more negative, corrective, or critical messages from parents, teachers, and peers by the age of 12 compared to the neurotypical peers. Yeah. That's huge, isn't it? Yeah. Totally. You know, you're you're lazy, you're naughty, you're disruptive.

SPEAKER_00 56:36

Yeah. So then too loud, too much. Yeah, all of those. Well, not enough because you're not speaking up enough, blah, blah, blah the opposite.

SPEAKER_01 56:43

So all of that is going to condition you to not trust your own gut.

SPEAKER_00 56:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:47

Because if you try and just be yourself, it's wrong again air quotes to the point where you start to mask and start to pretend to become somebody else until it becomes second nature and that's bloody exhausting. But is that also where people struggle to make decisions because they've been conditioned to believe that their own instincts, their own kind of read on things is wrong?

SPEAKER_00 57:14

Yeah, I think so. That's got to have a play a part in it. I've I'm nodding along to everything you're saying. I have read those about those

Neurodivergence And Lost Self Trust

SPEAKER_00 57:20

stats, similar stats I've read before, and it doesn't surprise me at all. King's College London, I think. Yeah, that's about right. But even now, you know, particularly when you work for yourself, when you've got to make those decisions, it's ri it's really hard to trust in that because there's a little, there's certainly a little voice in my ear still going, You really sure you want to do that? That might be wrong. You know, you're gonna look really silly if that's not the case. If you go down that route and that's gonna, you know, not then you're gonna look silly to who?

SPEAKER_01 57:49

Or why would you look silly? Well, exactly. Rather than really courageous for trying something. Yeah, yeah. Especially trying something against the odds. Yeah. Why does that make you look stupid rather than a a brave maverick?

SPEAKER_00 58:01

Yeah, I totally agree with that. I'm nodding along, but it's fascinating though, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 58:04

But it's like if you think about any of the people that we know of as as being, you know, the big advent inventors and the thinkers of their times. I don't know, we think about Alexander Graham Bell, or we think about I don't know, Einstein. Yeah. All of the great minds, Socrates. Yeah, all of the great minds were at one point vilified or he went to prison, didn't he, Socrates? He was given the death penalty. Yeah. You know? Have this drink, it's lovely. Yeah. Hemlock. Yeah. Yeah, to drink hemlock. And do you know when they used to give them hemlock for a death penalty, they would also advise the condemned prisoners to stand up and walk around because movement helps it.

SPEAKER_00 58:45

Would it speed it up? Helps it to speed up. I remember you telling me that before. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:50

And generally the they lose control of their arms first and it spreads up the buttons. Anyway, we don't need to do that for a thing.

SPEAKER_00 58:55

But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:57

Tell me your ADHD without telling me your ADHD. Yeah. So all of the great thinkers even if you look at religions and think of, you know, Jesus. Yeah. All of the great thinkers will at one point have been accused of anything from heresy to stupidity to being mad. Yeah.

unknown 59:21

You know?

SPEAKER_01 59:22

Yeah. Won't they? Turing. Yeah. Poor old Alan Turing. Yeah. So why do we go? Oh no, somebody might say we're silly. You've got to be prepared for somebody to say you're stupid. That you that could mean you're on the right lines. Is that that one of my favourite sayings? I keep saying it, but beware of following the masses. Sometimes the M is silent.

SPEAKER_00 59:42

Yeah, I like that one. That's a good one.

SPEAKER_01 59:43

One of the things I love to do in business, if I if I see everybody going over here for this trend, I'll go, right, what's in the opposite direction then?

SPEAKER_00 59:51

Yeah. We've always done that quite a bit, haven't we? With uh with Turkquoise Tiger, we've always done that. And we've found that while everybody else is saying do this, we've gone. And I don't think it was a it wasn't an intentional thing to begin with. It just it worked out that way, didn't it? We started to do that. Yeah. It's like, oh, let's try it this way, let's do this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:13

Yeah. So if you're listening to this and you're neurodivergent, does decision making feel harder for you? And is it actually harder or does it just feel harder? What what makes it that way for you? Please, please, please do. Yeah, please do. Yeah, find us on our social channels. You can find Awesomely Off Topic on Instagram and on Facebook. But you can also find me, Taz Thornton and Asher at Asher Clearwater on all of the social channels. You can also drop us a line directly through Buzz Sprout site, search for BuzzSprout and Awesomely Off Topic. We would really, really love to hear from you. Tell us how decision making is for you. And I suppose the other thing that hit that hits into neurodivergence is also going to be the decision fatigue.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:56

Oh yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:58

I know that if I'm coming up to about an ADHD burnout, one of the first things to be affected is my decisions.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:07

So you might say something like, What do you want for tea tonight? And I go, I don't know. What do you want this or this? And you know, there've been times where I've almost just dissolved into tears and gone, just put something in front of me and I'll eat it. I don't care, I can't make any more decisions. Yeah. It really can get that mundane. Yeah. Really mundane little pedestrian decisions are just too much. Yeah, so imagine that busy water or sp or or still water.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:34

So a business level, if you're, for instance, I don't know, having a new website done or having a new brand, you know, rebranding, imagine that when you're in that space of make those decisions. It's really hard.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:48

Yeah. Yeah, we've sometimes had days, haven't we? Because I think this is one that hits me more than more than you, decision fatigue. And we've had days, haven't we? Permanently indecision fatigue, that's why. Um I think we're in just general fatigue, actually.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:04

I think so. I think it's yeah, topsy turvy living at the moment with being awake at this time of night.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:09

We've had days, haven't we, with with her, where I've where I've said things like, you know, tomorrow, could I just not make any decisions? Can you just make all the decisions tomorrow? I don't care.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:18

And I'll probably say, I'm not sure. Hang on a minute, can you tell me whether I can Well if you were me, if you were me, what decision would you make for you?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:28

Even things like, what what movie do you want to watch? Oh yeah, what do you want to watch? I don't just pick something, I don't care. But that can that can be a real thing. So again, if you're listening, wherever you are on that spectrum anywhere, even if you're not don't consider you're on a spectrum, how do you manage that practically? If you get decision fatigue, how do you deal with that? What what do you do? And then there's RSD, rejection sensitive dysphoria. RSD plays a massive, massive role in preventing us from making decisions. That's the royal us, obviously. Because we'll start catastrophizing every possible outcome before you've even, you know, made a call, hit up Google or asked one of asked an AI.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:13

Yeah. Yeah, you've got a whole list of why you can't, haven't you? Before you even start, you even go down that's what it's like.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:19

So it's how you interrupt that spiral. At the minute, I'm actually working on, I've been working on it for a while now, but I'm working on creating some kind of dossier of lots of different ways that we can try to overcome or break RSD. And at some point I'll put that out through my social channels, and I'm deliberately coming up with lots of different things we can try because not everything is going to work for for everybody because we're a wired differently. Yeah. So keep an eye out for that. It'll either be free or really, really low, low cost, or or do a tiered pricing system or something. But yeah, the interrupting that RSD spiral is so important. And I think for me, one of the first things is to actually recognise this is RSD.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:00

Yes. That's been a big one for me too. We've talked about it quite a bit, haven't we? Actually recognising am I, you know, how why am I reacting so hugely to this? Why do I feel like my world is ending? Yeah. When in fact, hang on a minute, this might be.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:13

Somebody was just a little bit look somebody looked vaguely stressed this morning. It has to be my fault.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:19

But it was a news reader in Australia. I don't care, it's my fault. Yeah. So it's interrupting the spiral. So yeah, for me, it's the first thing is being able to recognise, Taz, you're feeling this bad because this is RSD and it is going to pass. And it doesn't take it away, but at least having the perspective where we can understand what is going on and name it will at least give us that realisation that it will get easier. It might take weeks, it might take a lot, you know, a lot more time than a neurotypical person might expect. They might have bounced back after a after a you know, a coffee and a five-minute breather. But for us, it could take days. And I think one of the other things that people don't recognise about RSD is it can display as physical pain. It's not just I feel a bit low. It really is everything goes black. It's a hideous, hideous feeling. But that also can massively impact decision making. Massively, massively, massively. So how do we start rebuilding that? That's you know, six million dollar question.

Decision Fatigue RSD And Recovery

SPEAKER_01 1:05:25

If so many neurodivergent people have spent so long masking or correct correcting themselves that they genuinely don't trust their instincts anymore, or they get stuck in RSD, all of those things, or decision fatigue and decision paralysis, how do you start rebuilding from that?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:42

It's a gradual thing, isn't it? You gotta as you said it's steps, tall steps, like some of the things you've you've recognised for yourself. And what and keeping that conversation going as well about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:53

Being in a space where you feel safe to be able to discuss it openly, talk about it, yeah, work it through, you know, and again. And you know, talking to those in your small circle, if you have a small circle of people that you do trust, just that one person, even one person, just being able to talk about it. Yeah. And express yourself in whatever way you you need to.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:13

I was talking to one of my clients about it only today who's just been I've been talking to them about RSD for a long time because I could spot it and they recognised it. But it's only this week they've been officially diagnosed as having RSD. And I think my response to them was just a simple RSD sucks ass. It does. So to bring us back full circle, you know, one of the things we talked about was this whole thing where if some if you perceive something's gone really peat tongue, recognising that it's just data. And I think that's another way that some of us ADHDs or neurodivergent people might be able to use that by flipping into geekery over the data. Oh, why didn't that work? Let me find out. Yeah, that's a nice flip. What do we need to do differently? That's a nice flip. Yeah. Flip your negatives. Yeah. So that might be one. So it's it's definitely worth just looking at that. You know, when something doesn't work out the way you planned, what's the first thing you ask yourself? Notice also what's the first thing you ask yourself, not the what's the first thing you tell yourself.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:20

Yeah, okay. Cogs are wearing. Sorry, my cogs, could you hear them? They were creaking then for a second.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:27

As opposed to why didn't that work?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:29

Or why am I so shit? Well, you're not, it's just that didn't work. That didn't go, that didn't hook up with that, that didn't go there, that didn't go there. It's like see like circuits. You know, at school when you used to have the circuit boards and you have to crack cra connect the batteries and make the wires light up a little bulb at the other side of it.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:44

I don't think I ever did that. Oh, bulbs probably weren't invented when you were in school. Rude, so rude.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:50

Yeah, did you know? Little lamps and a man would come around at the end of it. It was that bloke used to go out and light them in the street, you know, and it was the time before that it was somebody going round singing, bring out your dead! Painting big crushes on you doors.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:10

But I'm not going to. I'm not going to this evening.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:13

But that's. Did you really not have those?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:16

I can't remember. Well, if we did, I don't remember. So we showed you inattentive, hello, inattentive. Yeah, probably they're right in front of me.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:22

So it's obviously one of the one of the sciences, and sometimes it went into technical design and stuff, and you literally have like a little wooden circuit board, yeah, but there's nothing on it at first apart from all the little connecting pieces, and you get like a box full of wires and screws and stuff. Yeah. And you have they give you a battery, yeah, and then there's a tiny little light bulb that screws in at one end of it, and you have to work out using all the bits of wire and stuff, how you connect the bulb to the battery. Because of course there's not just a straight line across, you've got to go through all these. You know, when you see those those those maze games in Puzzle Group.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:02

And you've got to try and get yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You like those? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool. Yeah, so I'm not sure I would have remembered that if I'd had that. I'll see if I can get you a kit. Oh, thank you. That would take me. I'll be there for like six months when I'm trying to work it out. No. Just don't expect me to do that puzzle at this time of night.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:19

It's gonna be as exciting when I showed you the trick with one of the little square batteries and wire wall.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:23

Oh no, I'd never seen that either. I haven't lived, have I? Really haven't.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:27

And you know there's another one if you need to start a fire, you can get just a normal little battery.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:32

Not a square one, just a normal round battery.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:34

And if you get a piece of tin foil about the same length as make sure we're not don't try this at home first. If you make like an arch with your thumb on your first fingers, just sold them out, hold them out. If you get a piece of silver foil about that long, and make the two bits at the end, the the the bit in the middle narrower, tear a bit off, so you've got wider bits at either end.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:54

And then wear a pair of gloves ideally, not flammable ones. Hold both one one end of the foil on one end of the battery and one on the other, then that bit, that connector bit in the middle, will get really hot.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:06

And you can use that to then light really dry kindling.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:10

Ooh. So there's all the arsenis out there in the world. I think they might already know that. Yeah. But yeah, I was gonna say potential arsenisms in the future. If you haven't tried it, don't try it at high.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:23

Brilliant science experiment to maybe not teach the kids, older kids. Exactly. Or just play with yourself when the kids aren't looking. One of those little square batteries and a piece of wire wall. Just connect the battery to the wire wall, but don't leave it unattended.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:37

Thank you for that, Tuz. It was.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:39

Ours are fun. I was like, wow. I didn't leave lose I didn't learn those in science. Didn't you? No.

unknown 1:10:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:48

No, the only thing I learned in science was how to inadvertently knock a lad out.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:51

Okay.

unknown 1:10:53

Poor.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:54

That's another podcast then. Poor Graham. I wonder what happened to Graham.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:57

We were watching the childbirth video in biology and he put his head on my shoulder and I thought he was being all soppy. So I pushed him off. But he actually fainted.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:06

I don't know. I think you might have done.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:07

I don't know. Anyway, go on.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:09

How did we get from that to this? And I don't understand where we are now.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:12

We were talking about what's the first thing you ask yourself when something doesn't go to plan as opposed to what's the first thing you tell yourself?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:20

Two very different things. Where did the where did the idea that this that a wrong decision or a failure where did the idea that a wrong decision equals failure even come from? And is that true? These are all questions we can ask ourselves. And again, if we treat every outcome as data, how could that change our approach to making the call in the first place? So very, very quickly then, if we get to the case.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:47

I'm just gonna say, Kaz, I I don't want to be and it is quite late at night. Yeah. And even though we are vampires at the moment, vampiric in our staying awake all night, we've been on here for about an hour and ten, even 15 now, possibly.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:58

Well we'd better talk about the next bit really quickly then, because we can't wrap up without. Yeah, we just want just practical tools.

Fast Tools To Decide With Confidence

SPEAKER_01 1:12:05

Okay. So really quick bit, practical tools. Genuinely useful. Genuinely useful things that if you're listening and you get stuck on decisions, you can try. Right. So the what would I do if nobody could find out test? If nobody was gonna see how what the result was, would you have a go at it? Yes. So there's one straight away. You know, it strips away people pleasing instantly. Yeah. Journal before you before you ask anybody. Get out get it out of your head and onto paper before it goes into anybody else's ears. Yeah, that always works. What else? Oh, the 10 10 10 rule. This is well widely talked about.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:44

I don't know the 10-10-10.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:45

Oh, it's a really common one. And how will I feel about this in ten minutes? In ten months, and in ten years. Okay. Because that immediately sorts the stuff that actually matters from the stuff that you're catastrophising about.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:58

No, it says 10 ten.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:59

10 10 10. Notice where you feel it in your body, the discomfort. Because what do I always say about fear and excitement? The one of the things. They're exactly the same thing. The only difference is the way our brain processes it. So the body is far often far more honest than your brain.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:15

Mmm. Ain't that the truth? Goodness me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:19

And give yourself a decision deadline. Not because you want to rush, but because I'm still thinking with no end point. It's like that. I'm just canvishing opinions. You talked about earlier. Usually is permission to avoid doing. You're giving yourself permission to just stay in avoidance. So I think there's some stuff, there's some things to to try. So next time you catch yourself about to ask the 17th person for their opinion on the same decision. Just pause for a minute, breathe. Ask yourself, do I really need more information or do I need permission? Because, you know, if it's permission you really have to, you're the only one who can give it. So we look forward to hearing from you. And was that quick enough for you? Quick enough for Apple.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:01

That's pretty good. There's lots to think about in this one tonight, I think, aren't you? Oh, definitely. And I'm gonna be looking at some of those and practicing some of those. The 10 10-10 thing I'd completely forgotten about.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:11

Asher, if you looked at the time She's getting her own back.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:17

She's been really, really, you know that. If you were me, listeners they divorced me immediately, obviously. Hello, Susan. We hope you've enjoyed the show. As Taz said, please get in touch with your views on some of the points raised in in the podcast tonight tonight. And it is very much tonight. And we'd love to hear more from you. If you've got any ideas about what else you'd like us to talk about, please get in touch. You can find all the social people.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:42

Please, please, if you love these, don't just keep searching for them. Please follow and please subscribe. It makes the world of difference to our stats and helps us to keep doing this stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:53

It sure does.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:54

So, until then, we will see you next Tuesday. You've been listening to Autumnly Off Topic. If you've enjoyed this, hit follow and subscribe. And if you want more, come and find Autumnly Off Topic on social media. That's where all the extra bits live. Stay awesome, stay off topic, and we'll see you next time.