Consulting from the Couch
Welcome to Consulting from the Couch, a podcast about leaders, what makes them tick, what drives them, and the challenges they face. During the show, you’ll get to know some of the most genuine people that the host, Steve Goodson, has worked with over the years, and you’ll hear these leaders provide nuggets, tidbits, and takeaways for the emerging leaders of tomorrow.
This podcast is brought to you by Brown Leather Couch Consulting (hence known as BLC Consulting)…we’re a communications and organizational strategy group that works in the electric utility space and with service-related industries, helping them thrive in today’s ever-changing landscape. To learn more, go to BLCconsulting.org.
Consulting from the Couch
Where Everybody Knows Your Name: Leading in a Small Rural Community
What does leadership look like when every decision you make affects people you'll see at the grocery store tomorrow? Schumata Brown, Town Manager of Maysville, North Carolina, knows this reality intimately. As a native son who chose to stay and serve his hometown, Brown brings a unique perspective to leadership that's equal parts practical wisdom and heartfelt commitment.
In this episode, Brown shares real-world stories about building trust, modeling integrity, and embracing visibility in leadership roles. We dig into the balance between community traditions and new growth, and how leaders can foster a culture of belonging while driving progress.
Whether you're leading a local organization, a school, a church, or a small business, this conversation offers valuable insights on building trust, embracing adaptability, and creating a legacy that extends well beyond your tenure.
Welcome to Consulting from the Couch, where we explore the people, ideas and leadership shaping our communities and our lives, one story at a time. In today's episode, we're taking a closer look at what it means to lead in a small rural community, the kind of place where everybody knows your name and they may even know your phone number. I've had the privilege of working with today's guests to better his town, community and county for many years. Shivani Brown is a town manager of Maysville, north Carolina, a rural community facing both the blessings and the burdens of small town life, from balancing infrastructure needs with limited resources to preserving the town's identity while planning for its future. Shemani has had to lead with creativity, resilience and heart. We'll talk about what keeps him up at night, what inspires him to keep going and what leadership looks like when you're building trust across kitchen tables and not boardrooms. Welcome, shemani, and thank you for joining us today.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:If you would take a couple minutes and just tell listeners about Shemani Brown.
Speaker 2:Born and raised in Maysville, north Carolina. Real town guy, very humble, had a privilege of not moving away. Right, had an opportunity to go to join the military and moved away or went off to college, but I chose to stay in a small town and lead, coach and do all those things Again born and raised from Maysville, so native Jones County.
Speaker 1:Jones County high school product jones county school system product correct, go trojan right that's right. Public schools let's hop right in, because I've got some really great questions for you. Man, just getting to talk about your role and I know you'll appreciate this question in a small rural town, the town manager, as well as many other employees, often wears many hats. What does a typical day look like for you, if there is one?
Speaker 2:You know, steve, there's no typical day right in a small town, one moment over reviewing the budget. The next I might be out looking what public works do on the streets. True story two weeks ago I was in a hole putting in taps, so I'm likely to get a budget question from the grocery store as I'm in the boardroom. So it's no typical day Wearing many hats. And again, like I said, it was a true story. They put me on Facebook. I was putting in taps just two weeks ago.
Speaker 1:So basically, it's doing what you got to do to get it done Correct. That's awesome. So what makes leading in a rural community uniquely rewarding and or challenging?
Speaker 2:Well, I think it's the relationships You're leading, people that are not strangers, these people that I worship with that I grew up with Heck, my mom and dad stays there. So to me it's all about the relationships and my decisions. I tell people, for me it's not personal, they're professional. So every decision I'll feel it, you know, and it's got to be made because, again, I'm going to see those folks at church, I'm going to see those families, that family function. So I can't have a high behind the policy. Right, there's that accountability factor Correct.
Speaker 2:Transparency.
Speaker 1:Transparency. That's right. So you've been county manager now for how long?
Speaker 2:Town manager nine years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm sorry, town manager for nine years. So talk about evolution and evolving and, obviously, change. Have you faced some resistance to change and, as a leader, how have you approached that?
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely. Change is uncomfortable, right, everybody don't like change, you know, and I had to make sure that they'll feel comfortable, you know, with that change. You're living in a small room. Budget was tight, right, so I got to earn some trust and you know, trust ain't earned fast, it's slowly. So I approach first by listening right and truly listening to the people that are involved. Early in the process I learned that if people feel have a value or a voice in it, it has the ability to make that change a little bit easier.
Speaker 1:You know you made two really good points there. You talk about listening. You know my background as a communicator. Everyone just kind of jumps to the assumption that being a good communicator is being able to articulate, speak or be able to take, in my case, for many years taking complex things like engineering and stuff like that and maybe boiling them down to everyday language, and that is definitely an integral part of communications. But something that I think you would agree with communications is also listening, and doing that first right.
Speaker 2:I think it's a big part and that's why I said I listen and I truly listen. You know, we have an ability to articulate real well. I mean I might not be able to do that, but one thing I can do is listen well, and I think I learned a long time and that's actually listening to folks.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:And not over-talking them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the other thing you mentioned that I think is paramount is trust. You talk about building trust. Trust isn't earned, trust isn't given. I think you would agree with this. It's so hard to earn someone's trust but it's so easy, or it can happen really quickly losing someone's trust. You may work for years upon years, upon years to build a relationship and to create that trust and in one instance and you mentioned transparency, right, that's the key, so I think that's great. So let's talk about infrastructure, because I know we've worked together on infrastructure projects in the past and talk about limited funding and aging infrastructure or just infrastructure that needs to be upgraded. How do you prioritize in the town of Maysville, what gets done?
Speaker 2:First we're going to start with safety right.
Speaker 1:Absolutely and.
Speaker 2:I want to be clear. And then equality, not equality, equity.
Speaker 1:I mean.
Speaker 2:I want to make sure we're safety and equity for the people. Look what's going to affect the people the most, right, and then we go what's critical to the town infrastructure and what's critical to the function, and then we leverage what Grants and partnerships Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So one thing you know in 35 years in working in the business that I worked in it's all about relationships, it's all about leveraging partnerships and it's all about figuring out creative ways to solve a problem right. And that kind of leads to my next question does anything come to mind right off hand about a creative way that you secured funding or solved a problem and I've got it on my question here infrastructure. But it doesn't have to be necessarily an infrastructure problem that you solved. It could be any any problem that potentially has come up with the town of Mesa.
Speaker 2:And you know we can't do everything at once. Right, we got to plan, be disciplined and communicate early in the process. One creative funding that comes to mind is we recently combined state funds with town funds and appropriation from our state legislative on a street paving project. We just paved about 95% of our streets that hasn't been done probably sent the interpretation of the paving in town so we got rid of all the potholes and all that in town. With being creative, with partnerships and also uh, recently on in the news, we were just finished did a ribbon cutting on the workforce development center, where we took a old part of history of town and preserved that history and using it for something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I saw that. Talk about that project a little bit. I had eliminated a question that I was going to talk about a shrinking workforce and stuff like that. Talk a little bit about that project, because I think that's just a really interesting project.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like you said, youth migration and small town losing population. I think that project, you know we're creating reasons for what Young people to stay right, like job training opportunities, support and, you know, improving public spaces. You know our training workforce is an example of that. We took that partnerships, again, we can't do everything alone because we just don't have the capacity. With LCC and Golden Leaf we'll grant to fund that train depot to create a workforce development center where it's going to give young people opportunities to train for plumbing jobs, electrical, hvac, you know, water and sewer jobs, which is critical to, I think, the nation. I think I just read a blog that millionaires in I think the 70s was all of guys. Then the tech guys came in and named us. They said the next wave of millionaires will be these workforce development jobs.
Speaker 1:You're exactly right, because obviously I'm a little bit older than you, a little bit, but growing up, man, it was like it gets kind of beat in your head hey, if you want to get a good good paying job, get your undergraduate degree right. Then after that, when you started getting the influx of folks getting their undergraduate degrees, it was like hey, you want to get a good job, you need to get your master's and or your PhD. And over the years folks have been indoctrinated into that concept Not saying it's a bad concept at all, because those things are needed. I did it, my kids did it.
Speaker 1:But at some point in time when you start doing that, you have no one going into the trades and that's why a plumber can make $100 plus an hour. That's why a HVAC guy or a good mechanic or electrician or whatever can make really good money because of the supply and demand. So to get a plumber and I'll just say Mark Burnett, I'm going to give him a plug, he's my plumber. To get Leonard Honeycutt he's my electrician. I'm very fortunate. But to get someone like that to come to your house for a one-off job is hard.
Speaker 2:It's hard. I tell people all the time you know we're dealing in the water and sewer business.
Speaker 1:People have leaks all the time I tell folks I can make a million out of it Just in Maysville Just fixing leaks and you talked about all those you know being a doctor, going to college and getting these office jobs or whatever you know, and I'm scared to go under my house I probably can't fit underneath my house, but I'm much like you man. So you've talked about workforce development. You talk about that awesome creative partnership with Lenore Community College, golden Leaf, town of Maysville, talk about small business and talk about things that you're doing, because you've done some really neat things the last couple of years to support small business in your community.
Speaker 2:Correct. We, we listen to what, what they need, right, whether it's marketing, grant, access or infrastructure, and we try to remove those barriers. We provide it along with the partnership from the county. So micro loans for small businesses, you know and I actually did the legwork, you know, for those small you need a grant. I'll write it. You don't have to do anything but tell me what you need so that support making permitting process simplified, right? You know what I mean. You want to come and start a business.
Speaker 1:A lot of cities and towns need to listen to what you're doing, because getting a permit for something can be very difficult.
Speaker 2:Right, and I noticed that. You know, and that could be a barrier. You know, in small towns like Maysville we can't be a stranger, it's just Jacksonville or New Bern. So we try to simplify that. You know we want to be. Our tagline is naturally welcoming, right? So we want to welcome everybody, whether it's a business or whatever. So we try to remove those barriers.
Speaker 1:So is your little, that little area that you were creating. I was fortunate enough to serve with you on the Community 100 for Jones County and this idea popped up. I'm not ashamed to say I actually made the motion to help with this project because I just thought it was a wonderful idea.
Speaker 2:Talk about that Again, other partnerships, and you made that motion. I can remember John being an economist coming out and saying that he'd never seen something improve so fast, you know. And that Maysville Marketplace was an idea that we had an empty lot that was being overgrown and we took that and put out six 10-by-12 sheds for entrepreneurs to come in and have a space that is relatively cheap to start their business, and that marketplace has grown. We have added another shed which is a half salon. We have two seasoned rentals. As we speak, my lady is actually doing coffee and tea now and that is pleased with her business. We have a t-shirt kind of gift maker in one, and one lady is doing produce. We even had a guy that come in and I didn't think it would do good. He did the same thing but he's selling feed dog food, and that business has grown.
Speaker 1:He was one of the first ones, wasn't he? Correct, yeah.
Speaker 2:And he's just growing out the seams. He has added another shed out there. We're looking in the budget this year to add additional shed. So it's doing what it's intended to do and they're able to come there. They can come in there and rent it for a season for like 600 bucks a year you know I mean, and 25 bucks a weekend.
Speaker 1:You know you talk about entrepreneurship and helping the people startup, entrepreneurship, innovative, creative thinking, thinking outside the box, with the seasonal traffic, with the beach coming through, coming right down. 17 to head down 58. Is that 58 to to head?
Speaker 1:down highway 50 correct to head down highway 58, be on your right, right, not far from the town hall and everything, and it's just something just unique. So kudos for that, man. That was a great idea. Man, that was an awesome idea. Well, unfortunately it can't always be balloons and sunshine, right? Tell me as a leader and tell me as town manager, how do you? They are tough conversations, whether it's budget related, it's something going on, and, as town manager, you're going to talk to citizens when, even beyond budget, when something's going on in the community. Talk to me about how you handle those tough conversations and or criticism.
Speaker 2:You know, first with humility, you know, and honesty, right, criticism come with the job. Humility and honesty, right. Criticism comes with the job, I already know that and you're pretty sure you've been criticized some things, but it does come with the job. And again, I try to be with humility and honesty. Number one I don't take it personal, right. We get criticized, whether it's through an eval or anything. We kind of take it personal and I try not to take it personal and I try to create a space, you know, for dialogue. Let's talk about it.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about your list. Listen to it. Goes back to listening, right?
Speaker 2:Right. And again, you know what with criticism and I teach my kids all the time right with our shortfalls, let's take responsibility for it. Right, let's acknowledge that I had a shortfall, you know, and I think that goes a long way. It was like, all right, we got it wrong. Okay, let's talk about it and let's fix it.
Speaker 1:And we always say this, and I don't think you're putting lipstick on it, but people always talk about a problem or a situation or whatever. But it's an opportunity. Yeah, let's talk about the why behind the back choice, back to why. That's yours right, that's you know, when you go back to trust, you know it's built. What one conversation at a time, that's exactly right. So, rural leaders leading in a rural community what's one leadership skill that is especially important when you're leading in your setting? And I think you may have already hit on it, but in case you haven't, I'll give you this opportunity or you can, you know, talk about that well, I think it's adaptability.
Speaker 2:I mean, we're constantly changing. You might have a different word for it that you was thinking, but I think that we got to adapt. Whether it's a storm, whether it's a business that's needing a budget fall, we have to adapt with every opportunity. I mean, we can't be rigid.
Speaker 1:Shimani, I think being in a small community. Some would say that that's a weakness or whatever because of things, but I think your weakness is also your greatest strength, because being adaptable and being able to move large towns, large cities, large communities they don't necessarily always possess that adaptability. Personal experience worked for the local electric cooperative for 30 plus odd years. Our leadership, our governance with our board directors was local, so we were able to maybe make decisions, do things a little bit quicker than the investor in utility Duke Energy or Carolina Power and Light or the city of New Bern or whatever. It didn't have to go up some sort of really structured corporate ladder or whatever. So by us being small, local, grounded in the community, that smallness was actually to our benefit and I would say probably the town of Maysville is the same way. That's exactly right. Yeah, so you may leave somebody out here. Talk to me about unsung heroes in your town and tell me how you, as a leader, you lift them up and you support them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, again you could leave somebody out. We always talk about fire and police, right?
Speaker 1:They are the heroes, right? They're the superstars.
Speaker 2:Right, they get all the recognition.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they are the heroes, they're the superstars. They get all the recognition and much deserved.
Speaker 2:By the way, let's think about our public works.
Speaker 2:It's a beautiful thing to go there and turn your faucet on and flush your toilet until it doesn't happen, and then much like electricity and we can argue we can do without the police, always those cons, but go there and not be able to turn on your water and flush your toilet. That's a problem every day. So you know, in our admin staff, you know you talk about them and they don't get much recognition. You know, and the volunteers, right Yep, who keep the events going, I mean so those are some unsung heroes that hardly ever get in the headlines.
Speaker 1:And how do you support them?
Speaker 2:You know I try to celebrate them publicly. Right, we try to do that, try to give public works better tools. Right, you know we support, you know, admin, whatever. You know if it's a new computer, if it's, you know, a new pen or if it's an office paper, you know you try to support them every day and make sure that they're valued. And leadership means shining light on others and you know you're not standing in it, you know I mean. So I don't want to stand like, I want to shine a light on the public works staff.
Speaker 2:The volunteers, the police, the fire, so and I think you would.
Speaker 1:You would agree with this. You're only as good as the employees that work, so I always use this phrase working. I may have had 20 people that were quote, I guess for me or underneath me or whatever. I always said when I was talking about somebody. Somebody might say, hey, who's that? And I'd say, oh, that's Joe, he works with me. He might report to me, but he works with me. But at the same time I always understood if an employee understands their role and their purpose and understand what their part of the greater good, then they're appreciated, they understand their job and they'll.
Speaker 2:You know, employees will do almost anything if you show them that correct, yeah, and sort of like, with y'all got a lot of trucks, a lot lot of equipment right Maysville got soil plant, water plant, trucks, computers, all that. But I'd be as accurate as those folks that clock out at 5 o'clock every day 100% agree with you, man.
Speaker 1:So let's talk long term. 20 years from now I will be 77 and let's hope I'll be standing upright Long term. What do you hope people say about Shemotty Brown and the leadership he has brought and will hopefully continue to bring to the town of Maysville and the community and Jones County?
Speaker 2:Okay. So first I want people to understand. I want I mean, there's a quote that said we're creating shade for others to sit under. Whatever I'm doing now is not for me to sit up on that shade tree, it's for others. You know, I want Maysville to be known for a place that honors its history right while creating a future for everybody right, where families feel safe, businesses can thrive and young people want to stay there right Twenty years from now, I hope they say that I live with one integrity right, we want to always have that integrity that I brought people together, try to have community engagement as much as I could and lay the groundwork for growth. That that didn't leave anyone behind, whether it was age, race or whatever. It didn't leave anyone behind.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. You pretty much answered the last question what does success look like for you, not just professionally, but for the community as a whole? I think I think your answer there just really tackled both of them. So I prepped you with those questions. You knew what I was going to ask you there. Now I've got a couple.
Speaker 1:I really think that great leaders in our community, there are certain things that they do, there are certain traits that they have, whether it's a certain this or a certain that, and so each podcast I'm going to talk to the guest about the various questions that I'm asked as related to that topic that day. But then at the end I'm going to ask every guest these same questions and over time I'm just going to kind of see how this shakes out little informal poll and just say, hey, yeah, so 80% of the guests said this or some sort of maybe a term or some sort of theme or something like that. So they're not difficult questions, they're just it's kind of honestly getting to know a little more about Shemani Brown. So, with that said, when you think of the word successful, who's the first person who comes to mind, and why?
Speaker 2:I want to say Jesus Christ. You know, just because of my religious background and I was raised in the church and always putting God first.
Speaker 1:And I think you really don't have to answer why from that? I think everybody pretty much knows that, as why Don't know, if you're a moviegoer or a book reader, what is your favorite documentary or movie or potential book?
Speaker 2:of all time it probably is a tough one, but I'm going to go back. I mean again, I don't want to hop in. I'm not trying to change anybody, but the greatest book ever wrote to me is the. Bible Absolutely Correct I mean, I'd take a lot of that and put it into my life. You don't even have to be a religion just to learn from you. Know that Bible.
Speaker 1:You know and a lot of whether. However and this isn't a religious show, but regardless of how you feel, but just reading it as a historical document and a lot of the lessons learned and with the parables and just a lot of things associated with that, there are just a lot of great stories that teach you about being a good person and doing the right thing, and I just think that's what it is about being a good person and doing the right thing. Absolutely.
Speaker 2:But I am reading a book now that's called Shifting the Monkey. That was pretty intriguing to me because I'm a leader that I like to get hands on and do a lot. But it tells you that to keep those good people and separate the bad employees, kind of shift those jobs and making sure that they're doing that Shifting the monkey.
Speaker 1:All right, excellent. Let's talk about morning rituals. What does the first 60 minutes of every day look like for Shemani Brown?
Speaker 2:I think it's looked like what my life is. It's looking and caring for others. My wife was diagnosed with ALS, so my first 60 minutes is taking care of her and that's what's been in my life. A lot is taking care of others, Taking care of others.
Speaker 1:True servant leader man. So this one's a tough one. If you had to speak about something, if you were asked to speak about something and to give a TED Talk about something outside of your main area of expertise, you couldn't talk about being the town manager of the town of Maysville. What would be a topic that you would talk about outside your area of expertise?
Speaker 2:I'm a big baseball fan.
Speaker 1:Are you?
Speaker 2:Yes, I'm a big sports advocate, so I'm pretty sure it would be on baseball.
Speaker 1:Somebody says hey, shemani, get there and talk 15 minutes about something, and you would just get there talking about baseball.
Speaker 2:That's correct. Again, I think baseball is starting to be a lost sport in our community. I would concur, I'm a big advocate of trying to bring that back to the community. I think I would go up there and talk baseball Awesome.
Speaker 1:You mentioned something earlier and I don't know if this is the same one. Do you have a quote you live your life by or you think of often?
Speaker 2:Too much is given, much is required.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Last one. You may have something for this. You may not have something for this. I just thought this was an intriguing question. What do you believe is true? What do you believe is true even though you can't prove it?
Speaker 2:I believe it's true that the earth is round.
Speaker 1:That's right. Okay, so you are not a Duke basketball player Kyrie Irving.
Speaker 2:Kyrie Irving.
Speaker 1:You don't fall down in the sphere of Kyrie Irving that the earth is flat, correct. I would say that I concur with you on that assessment. So listen, that's a wrap, shemani. Thank you so much, and listen, that's this episode of Consulting from the Couch. Big thanks to you, man, for sharing what it really takes to lead in a small town, and the wins, the challenges and the heart that it takes behind it all, and to the listeners. Thank you for listening. If you like this episode of Consulting from the Couch, be sure to follow us by going to blcconsultingllccom. I had to add LLC in there because somebody had BLC consulting, so blcconsultingllccom. Leave a quick review or share it with someone who loves hearing just local stories about local leaders and what they're doing. Until next time, I'm Steve Goodson and talk soon.