When Meaning Beats Comfort: Leading by Starting at the Bottom...AGAIN!

What kind of leader walks away from a thriving business to start at the bottom again—and does it more than once?

In this episode of Consulting from the Couch, host Steve Goodson sits down with Thomas "Tog" Goss—a leader whose career defies every conventional rule about success.

Law enforcement officer. Firefighter. Paramedic. Successful entrepreneur running a multimillion-dollar lawn care business. And then, at 43 years old, a nursing student starting completely over.

Today, Tog is the Chief Operating Officer of Atrium Health Navicent Baldwin, a 140-bed rural hospital in Milledgeville, Georgia, serving approximately 150,000 people as part of Advocate Health—the third-largest nonprofit health system in the United States.

But the path to get there is what makes this conversation extraordinary.

In this episode, we explore:

• The fatal crash that sparked Tog's calling to emergency service;
• Early grit in construction and his first business lessons;
• The shift from firefighting and paramedicine to entrepreneurship;
• Building a multimillion-dollar lawn care company on one principle: reliability;
• Why he walked away from business success to enroll in nursing school at 43;
• The humility of returning to a Level One trauma center as a CNA to earn respect;
• The 110% mindset and how "positive thoughts produce positive outcomes";
• Mentors who opened doors, refused to let him settle, and believed in him before he was ready;
• Leading the cardiovascular ICU during COVID with the philosophy "no one goes alone";
• Servant leadership habits that build culture—picking up trash, dust-mopping hallways at 4 a.m., being visible;
• Rural healthcare innovation: life jacket loaner stations, tele-linked EMS, solar energy offsetting 40% of hospital power;
• Community partnerships that save lives and fund critical equipment;
• Investing in staff education and advancing careers;
• Faith, family, and the courage to choose meaning over comfort; and
• What he wants his legacy to be—and his advice for anyone stuck at a crossroads.

Key Themes:
This conversation is about reinvention, courage, servant leadership, and the unwavering belief that great healthcare should reach every person—no matter where they live. It's about choosing meaning over money, humility over ego, and service over status.

Tog didn't become a great leader despite starting over multiple times. He became a great leader because of it. Because he knows what it feels like to be the rookie in the room. Because he's worked every level of the organization he now leads. Because he chose, more than once, to trade comfort for meaning.

Who This Episode Is For:

• Anyone standing at a career crossroads wondering if it's too late to change
• Leaders who want to understand what servant leadership actually looks like in practice
• Healthcare professionals considering leadership roles
• Paramedics and first responders exploring transitions into nursing or healthcare administration
• Entrepreneurs questioning whether success equals meaning
• Anyone who's been told they're too old, too late, or too far down one path to start over

Connect with Tog Goss:
Website: https://toggoss.com

About Consulting from the Couch:
This podcast is about leaders—what makes them tick, what drives them, and the challenges they face. Hosted by Steve Goodson, who spent 35 years in the electric utility industry working with some of the most genuine, humble, and exceptional leaders. Each episode delivers nuggets, tidbits, and takeaways for the emerging leaders of tomorrow.

About BLC Consulting, LLC:
This podcast is brought to you by BLC Consulting, LLC (Brown

Transcript

Choosing Meaning Over Comfort

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Consulting from the Couch, a podcast about leaders, what makes them tick, what drives them, and the challenges they face. Occasionally a guest comes along whose story makes you stop and asks, what kind of leader does it take to start completely over? Not once, but multiple times. Today is one of those episodes. What would make a successful entrepreneur, a guy running his own business, walk away from everything and enroll in nursing school? Not as a hobby, not as a side project, but to start completely over from the bottom as a student. That's the question at the heart of today's conversation. My guest started as a law enforcement officer, became a firefighter, then a paramedic, and later walked away from his own business to enroll in nursing school. Today he serves as a chief operating officer at a 140-bed Royal Hospital as part of the nation's third largest healthcare system in the country. His name is Thomas Todd Gall, and this is his story about what happens when you choose meaning over comfort more than once. His story is about reinvention, courage, servant leadership, and the unwavering belief that great health care should reach every person, no matter where they live. I've been looking forward to this conversation for a while. So let's get going. Tog, welcome to the couch.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Steve, man, I'm glad to be here. You know, after you had Brock on your show, my cousin Brock, and uh, of course I watched that, listened to that, and then that led me into listening to all of your episodes. So uh I'm really glad for the opportunity. And if we can maybe motivate one person today to maybe get out of their comfort zone because we we cannot grow in an area of comfort. So if we can motivate just one person today, that'll be a success in my story.

Early Grit And First Businesses

SPEAKER_00 1:56

You and I are on the same page, man. We're on the same page. Well, I want to hop right in and let's start at the beginning. I don't want to start when you became a nurse. I don't want to start when you became a COO. But back when you were a young man deciding what to do with your life, you chose law enforcement first, then firefighting, then paramedicine. What was pulling you towards those careers?

SPEAKER_01 2:25

Man, that is a that is a great question. And really, it goes beyond that. It's it all began for me, even in leadership, at a very early age. My dad and my uncle had a construction business, and I started working with them, building a set of apartments in Macon, Georgia when I was 11 years old. By the time I was 14 or 15, I was a pretty skilled framing carpenter. And at 16 years old, in the summer of 86, I was hired by a general contractor. I'm 16 years old at the time, and I'm hired by a general contractor to be the framing subcontractor on a house at uh a lake in Macon, Georgia. It was a big house, very complex roof system, and I just can't picture someone hiring a 16-year-old to do a job like that, where I had to hire my people, make payroll, and get the job done at 16 years old. So it kind of goes back to that point, actually, you know. Wow. It's a it was a it was a it was a very interesting time in my life because I was still in high school. I was out for the summer. And uh, you know, I put it this way, you couldn't tell me anything.

Tragedy That Fueled A Calling

SPEAKER_00 3:58

Yeah, I bet yeah, I bet that was yeah, I'm sure, yeah, I'm sure you couldn't. So you're you're actually your your your first first kind of experience into owning your your own business actually came before wasn't the landscaping and the healthcare and all that stuff. It was it was when you were 16 years old. That's right. Wow. Yeah, wow, that's that's amaz that's that that's amazing. So so you're running a business, then you shift into into the into the to the emergency field with well the law enforcement and the and the paramedic field, and then you decide to get out of that though after and that kind of that that that surprised a lot of people. Talk about that shift. What what was that shift about from emergency management and law enforcement to, you know, I guess being grown up at that point, right? And owning your own business.

SPEAKER_01 5:00

You know, it it started, I'll I'll go back to before I got into law enforcement. It was October the 19th, 1989. The the guy that was the plumbing contractor on the apartments that I was talking about previously that I was working on with my dad, I was going down Columbus Road that evening, and I came across a car accident where a car had been struck by a lumber truck of all things. And this friend of mine that was the plumbing contractor, his wife and mother-in-law and two sons were they were all killed.

SPEAKER_00 5:42

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

Yeah. That's a tough one. But anyway, I I made a decision that day that I was going to be able to help people in those times of need because when I pulled up on that accident scene, I'm trying to help. I was 19 years old and just really couldn't do anything. So when the firefighters got there and the paramedics got there, I was like, man, I feel like I really need to do this. So the law enforcement part comes about. I applied for the Macon Vib County Fire Department. It's a Class One fire department, top-of-the-line fire department. And I went through the entire process, and when I received my letter saying I was on the list to be hired, it basically stated, Congratulations, you're on the list to be hired for the Macon Vib County Fire Department. The waiting list is approximately five years. So I spent just two years at the police department, then transferred to the fire department. So that's actually why I ended up in law enforcement with that.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

Okay. It was it was a it was a a stop gap to kind of pay the bills, the bills a little bit. Totally, yeah, totally get it. Well, the I mean the the motivation obviously for for getting to that point in your story, yeah. I mean, I man, that's that, you know, I get that. So what caused the shift? It was it just I don't want to say burnout, because there is a lot of burnout in those jobs, right? I mean, what caused the shift from you know from when you you got out of that to to the part of owning your own business?

SPEAKER_01 7:50

Yeah, so 10 years with the city of making and working with the fire department, we worked 24-hour shifts, so we worked 24 and we're all for 48 hours. And for a considerable amount of time, I would work 24 at the fire department, go straight to the ambulance service, work 24, and then I would be old for 24 hours. Or I would go freeing. You know, I was still kind of doing that too. And then eventually I left the fire department after I was vested 10 years so I could get my fire department retirement at one day, or the fire pension fund retirement, which isn't much. But at that point I went to the hospital full-time as a paramedic because at 10 years with the city of making the fire department, I was only making$24,000 a year. And went to the hospital as a paramedic and double my pay. And at that point, I have a large yard at my house, so I cut a lot of grass. So I started cutting my grass with commercial equipment, and a couple of neighbors, you know, started asking me about cutting their grass. Next thing I know, I'm cutting grass every day's off.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

You started a lawn care business and didn't mean to, right?

SPEAKER_01 9:11

Yeah, and the crazy thing, man, I would go to people's house and I would say, Well, do you do you not have someone currently that does this service for you? And almost every person would say, Yes, I do, but I never know when they're gonna be here. So automatically I thought, well, I need to let people know when I'm gonna be there, let them actually choose the day and the approximate time. So that's that was the core of starting that business. I would say, well, what day would you like, you know, your yard serviced? And they would tell me a day, and then like if they said 10 a.m., then I'd be like, Well, give me a window between nine and eleven.

SPEAKER_00 9:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:50

And and it it became very, very successful. So first year, about$36,000 in total grass, you know, services rendered.

SPEAKER_00 10:02

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

Year seven, it was year seven, it was over four million. Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00 10:08

That's amazing. And then to the shock of everybody, you're running this business, you're getting you're you're successful. I mean, when you cut four million dollars worth of grass or do four million dollars worth of landscaping, heck, if you do four million dollars worth of anything during the year, you're pretty successful. You decide to become a nurse. Walk me through that decision.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

Well, yeah, it was a lot, man, because doing the landscaping, I had other business opportunities. One opportunity, we had a new cardiologist move into our area, and I met her and her husband, and he ended up talking me into a business with him. So we opened a health club, and it was called Kinetics Health Club. It was in Macon, Georgia, and that was in the summer of 2005. And when I made the decision, or we made the decision to sell that business, we had health clubs all the way from Virginia to Tallahassee. Gosh. I mean, it's just crazy how the Lord works that way.

Scaling A Lawn Care Company

SPEAKER_00 11:22

Oh man, absolutely, absolutely. Absolutely. So this is this is what I want the folks that are gonna be watching and listening this to really sit with. You weren't 20 years old, 22 years old when you applied to nursing school. You had a career, you you had a career, you had a business, you had built a reputation. I mean, you had a nice life from the material side of things. What did people say when you told them, hey, I'm gonna go and apply to nursing school, and this is what I want to do. What what was the first reaction?

The Leap To Nursing At Forty-Three

SPEAKER_01 12:07

Well, I had a lot of reactions, but I can tell you that the reaction from Brock was, man, you're gonna kill it. You're gonna do awesome. And but I did have a lot of naysayers as well. But it it had gotten to a point to where I knew the successes of being in an entrepreneur and owning your own business, but I also knew the difficulties associated with it. It's feast or famine, and you really have to hustle for a dollar, you know, almost I mean, every day. And at the same time, it takes all of your time. I had just gone through a divorce. I had been married for almost 23 years, and when we got a divorce, I got custody of my girls, and I needed to make a couple of changes, and one of them was a career change for not only just wanting to have something a little more stable and settled and a little more time with my kids, but I wanted to do do the thing that I have enjoyed the most. You know, we talked about framing and law enforcement, firefighting, and paramedic and owning my own business, but the one thing that I always enjoyed the most that I felt like I was just built for it was helping people and taking care of people in health care. So I decided at that point, you know what, that's the one thing I loved, and I'm going to do it. That's I will I was 43 years old.

SPEAKER_00 13:55

43. That's that's that is an amazing story. So doubt. Even though you don't seem like the type of guy that carries a lot of self-doubt. You you seemed like the type of person that you're gonna find a way to figure it out and work it out. But there had to be folks around you that were that were doubting you. Was there ever any doubt that crept in into your mind when you were going back at 43 years old, sitting in, sitting in class, taking tests, studying? Was there ever any doubt that crept into your mind?

SPEAKER_01 14:34

Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_00 14:36

Yeah. None. Yeah, I didn't I didn't think so, but I'm sure there were, I'm sure there were still folks around you that were that that doubted you.

SPEAKER_01 14:45

Yeah, I guess those those individuals, even if they knew me well, and and even if they knew that I would be successful in it, they just didn't understand the reasoning behind it. Yeah. Because the reasoning was more to do with what do what do you feel like you were put on this earth to do? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

Yeah, and that's you know, I've so this is I've done the audio podcast for about a year now or nine months. This is the second podcast I've done with video. And across the top of our our pictures there, I've got, I pulled a quote. I kind of read the the questions and I pulled a quote that I that I'm gonna change every every month when I do this. And it says, Great leadership isn't about climbing higher. It's about being willing to start over when purpose calls. And and so it was it was definitely a calling in your life to to to to serve serve others from a from a health perspective. Because that that's played a major role, not only you know, early on, but then with the with the with the shift. And so when you feel the calling, man, you feel the calling, right? I mean, that's that's how it is. Yeah, yeah, that's how it is. So you have a philosophy. Positive thoughts produce positive outcomes. Is that where is this where the whole that whole philosophy comes from, or was it something from the earlier days or just something else that occurred in your life that you know that that that kind of produced this philosophy?

SPEAKER_01 16:29

I think that, you know, my my my total philosophy on that is is positive thoughts produce positive outcomes, just as negative thoughts produce negative outcomes. So choose your thought process wisely.

SPEAKER_00 16:47

Wow, yeah.

Mindset: 110 Percent And Positivity

SPEAKER_01 16:49

That goes back when I was a a kid, 12 years old, I was drag racing a for people in your audience that know uh motorcycles, when I was 12 years old, I had a Suzuki GS 1100 drag rider. So I I was very small and uh it was very dangerous, but I began racing then and I met a guy named George Bryce. George Bryce then had just started a new business called Star Racing in America's Georgia. And George and his team went on to be the what I call the Dale Earnhardt of NHRAX motorcycle racing. He won 83 national events, six world championships, was sponsored by Winston, one of the best teams in the world. And George taught me a lot about positive thinking and producing positive results, specifically related to drag racing. And it's it's true. So I just kind of took it a step further and just tried to tried to play that about every scenario. And and it it has proved to be true with me. And I I'll tell you a story one day my daughters came home from school, and one of my daughters was saying, you know, so-and-so did something, and they made me mad today. And I'm like, well, sweetie, hold on a minute. You know, they might have done something, but you chose to be mad. They didn't make you mad. You chose to be mad, and you could have chosen not to be mad as well. So I think there's so many aspects of positive thinking. You know, is the glass half full, is the glass half empty? But I just feel like that if you have a positive thought process, you're gonna have a positive outcome. You never want to start a project with a negative thought behind it.

SPEAKER_00 19:04

No, that's a that's a that's a one strike or a dagger or whatever you want to, whatever you want to call it. If you start a project or start something like that with negative feelings, you're you're behind the curve already. Yeah, totally, totally agree with you there. So you go to nursing school, first shift as registered nurse, level one trauma center. Yeah. You're in your you're in your 40s.

unknown 19:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:35

Most of your colleagues have been doing this since their 20s, and or either in their 20s or young, or they've been doing it for a while. Paint the picture for me, man. What was it like that first shift? Man. Because you had been now now now. Let me just step back. You had been a paramedic, so you had it wasn't like you weren't used to emergency response situations, but but you may have been the lead or you may have been over time learned that, but you're stepping in as the rookie. And uh, you know, at age 40, it's like the the rookie ball player getting caught up to the big leagues at age 40, 42, and and and pinch hitting, but you were coming in with all these young guns to talk talk about that.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

Yeah, even before I passed the boards and and got my nursing license, I went back to work in the level one trauma center at the medical center of central Georgia as a clinical tech, a CNA.

SPEAKER_00 20:40

Okay.

Rookie Nurse In A Level One Trauma Center

SPEAKER_01 20:41

I felt like for several reasons, I needed to go into that environment extremely humble. And no better way to do that than not walking the door as a registered nurse, but walk in the door as a CNA. A lot of the people that worked in there knew me as a paramedic and had known me for years. I just felt like it was important to gain the respect of not only the physicians and the advanced practice providers, the nursing staff, but also the clinical techs, the environmental services teammates, dietary. I wanted to start as well at the at the most beginning level that I could start at. And I am so glad I did that, man. So glad I did that.

SPEAKER_00 21:38

I mean, it helps you with that, but but you know, hindsight and you know, reflecting on it, it's it had to help you with the current position you're in now, too. I mean, it just I mean Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's just I mean, that's yeah, that's powerful, man. So here's something I want to want to I think about a lot. So you've you've now led teams, you've now Leading teams of your own, obviously. When you see someone on one of your teams at a crossroads considering a big change that others might, you know, might question, you know, the natural action as a as a one type of boss or supervisor, you obviously don't want to lose that employee because there may be a lot of time, money, efforts invested in that person to get them there. But as a I don't want to say a caring boss, but as a as a supervisor who is there and is looking out for the betterment of the folks that work with them, you want the best for them. So what's what's your advice or any experience on folks that you've worked with over the last several years that have maybe been in the same sort of situation that Tog has been in, contemplating major career life changes? And what advice have you given them?

Mentors Who Changed The Trajectory

SPEAKER_01 23:00

Man, I am so blessed by the opportunities that I've had to encourage people and um lift people up. I I get, Steve, I get so many messages weekly out of the blue. I just forget about these things. Whereas somebody will message me last week, I had someone message me, you know, all of the successes that I've had. I went from a shy nurse to a clinical lead, an educator. Now I'm a nurse manager. I would not have accomplished anything like that if you hadn't believed in me. Those things are and they're just life-changing opportunities. And I I had a I I had just gotten promoted to director of oncology. And when I took that position, uh, one of the uh nurse managers told me, she said, you have one teammate that's out on maternity leave, but when she comes back, she wants to transfer out of this department, still within the organization, but to a hospital about 30 miles away, because she just had her second child and she wants to schedule to be able to spend more time with the child. So a few weeks later, her name's Chelsea. Chelsea called me. I had never met Chelsea before, and Chelsea called me and I answered the phone. I knew it was her. My assistant had told me it was her, and I said, Well, are you ready for me to sign your transfer paperwork? And she said, Well, I want to ask you about something. I said, Okay. She said, I would rather stay in oncology, but she said, There's a problem. Okay, what's the problem? She said, I can't work a weekend shift for at least six months. And I said, Okay, that's no problem. Well, it's done. She was like, What do you mean it's done? And I was like, Done. Like, I'll prove it. And her, she said, well, you don't have to ask Deborah. So Deborah was the vice president that I reported to. And this is exactly what I told her. I said, Why the hell am I gonna ask Deborah? She's gonna say no. I'm not asking her, I'm just gonna do it. And that person, instead of transferring to a different facility, she stayed with me. Six months later, she became the clinical lead educator on the unit. About a year after that, she became the nurse manager working on the unit for me. Now, I don't know if if you're familiar, but a lot of nurses graduate, even though the nursing program, all the prerequisites in the nursing program, it ends up being four years of full-time college. A lot of the programs, when you graduate, you have an associate's degree. And she had an associate's degree. Well, I knew she could not go higher than nurse manager with an associate's degree. So I called her to my office one day, and I had pulled up the admissions for Western Governors University, and I got all of her information out of our HR file, and I signed her up for a program that would take her from associate's degree to master's degree. And when I left director of oncology into the position I'm in now, because she had her degree, at that point, she was able to become the director of oncology.

SPEAKER_00 26:53

So that man, that that's a wonderful story. And and she would probably she would probably do anything for you in this world because you because because the investment of time. You've I mean, this is a loaded question. You found that to be true in your climb from staff nurse to COO, correct?

ICU, COVID, And No One Goes Alone

SPEAKER_01 27:51

Absolutely. Absolutely, 100%. I uh man, when I came back to work at the hospital as the CNA clinical tech, nobody knew it, but every day when I put on my scrubs, I had a t-shirt that went under my scrubs that said 110%. I had probably 10 of those shirts made, and I put it on every day and had to look myself in the mirror and you know commit to the patients deserve 110%. The people that I work with deserve 110%. And if I can't do that and commit to that, I am not going. And for three years, nobody ever knew I had that t-shirt on under my scrubs. I never worked a day without it on, not one day. And I was in the trauma bay that day and just got my scrubs just completely soiled, and I had to change into some of those operating room scrubs, the ugly green looking scrubs. And um the rector of the level one trauma center, he happened to walk in when I was putting my scrub top on. He's like, What's that t-shirt you got right there? And I said, Oh man, it's just a t-shirt. You know how it is. He's like, I know you better than that, man. So I remember after the shift that day, I called Brock on my way home, and we were talking about it. And Brock said, Well, you know that awareness. Now he knows, man, that awareness is gonna be even more responsibility, you know. And and I got to thinking about it, and I was like, man, you're right. And so then everybody started finding out about my t-shirt. So I ended up making little bracelets, you know, these little rubber bracelets. And yeah, and when I see people going above and beyond, I would give them a 110% bracelet. And then I ended up, nurses love pens, so I had a bunch of lapel pens made. I have one on my jacket right now, 110%. So I I just believed in in giving that 110%. And it it's a big motivator, you know, people want to be on Club 110.

SPEAKER_00 30:19

That's that's awesome. And and and I want to talk about that, that drive, that drive, that 100%, 110% drive. So here's what the remarkable thing is about this, about the timeline. Timeline now, eight years. In eight years, you went from staff nurse to chief operating officer. Yeah. And that doesn't happen by accident. It happens by 110%. What what's what's driving that? What's the driver? I know we talked about purpose and stuff like that. Is that is that what's driving it? Tell me what tell me what's driving Tog to do this in eight years.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

Man, you know, there's there's so many parts to that. You know, I can take it all the way back to, you know, 1970 and 72 and 3. And those years were not real good for me. Man, my mom struggled, you know, several marriages, four kids, four kids, three different dads. My mom barely has a G D. But my older sister has a master's degree. She's also a nurse. My younger brother is a nurse practitioner. He has a master's degree, and he works with the trauma team in Macon. And my youngest sister is an attorney. She's actually the lead attorney general counsel for Stellanis Automotive Group, which is Dodge, Chrysler, G, Alfa Romeo, Fiat, Maserati. So I was the last kid of the four, even though I had had successes along the way. I was the last one that didn't have a master's degree. And I was like, come hell or how I work. My mom, my mom is going to have all of her kids at least have a master's degree. You know, so that was a big motivator for me. It wasn't about me or my successes, it was about how amazing my mom is.

SPEAKER_00 32:38

That's awesome, man. That is an awesome, that is an awesome story. That is, that's that's fantastic. You've you've had to have come across some some pretty awesome leaders during this climb. Ones that have kind of shaped shaped you.

unknown 32:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:58

The ones that have the ones that have kind of showed you what good leadership actually looks like. So I know you've probably come across several. Think about one or two that come to mind and why.

SPEAKER_01 33:12

Well, I'll go back to George Bryce.

unknown 33:14

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 33:15

You mentioned George.

Servant Leadership In Action

SPEAKER_01 33:17

Yep, and still have a wonderful relationship with George today. And another one I'd like to bring to the forefront is Johnny Williams. Johnny Williams is the director of the Level One Trauma Center in Macon. Now, funny story about Johnny. Brock and I have, we had an uncle, his name was Johnny, Johnny Goss, but his middle name was Frank, so we always called him Johnny Frank. And and as a um a young male in our family, everybody looked up to Johnny. And that was kind of the benchmark. And I go to work in the ER, not thinking that Johnny Williams was going to hire me, but he did. And when I interviewed, I went in there and said, hey, my plan was to go back to school and come to work in the ER down here. And he said, Well, did you have an alternate plan? And I was like, no, that's A and Z right there. I don't have a V. That's all. And he hired me, he believed in me, and he is the most instrumental person in the beginning path of me in healthcare and working in healthcare because Johnny saw something early on, and he would not allow me to remain in the ER forever. I probably would have, to be honest with you. But Johnny told me I had applied for a clinical leave slash charge nurse position, and he didn't hire me for the position. He told me that I had the best interview. And he said, I'm not talking about the best interview of this interview cycle. He said, That was the best interview I've had in 31 years of leadership. But he said, I'm not giving you the job because you'll never leave this place. Like you need to go out and go into leadership because you have more to offer. So without joining, man, I probably would have never left the ER.

Rural Hospital Leadership And Mission

SPEAKER_00 35:35

Yeah. So let's so let's talk about that. You've you've been through cardiovascular ICU as a clinical lead and educator, nursing manager. Then you took on directing the inpatient oncology unit or the Cancer Life Life Center. That's man, that's so what does leading people? You had folks working for you, what does leading people who are guiding patients through the worst moments of their lives, potentially, obviously? Really bad moment in their lives. What does that do to you as a leader? You're you're having to be the strong one, right? You're having to be the be the one that the boss man, the one you know, the one that's in charge. What does that do to you as a leader?

SPEAKER_01 36:27

Well, I do want to say one other thing about Johnny before I get into it. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, yes, sir.

SPEAKER_00 36:31

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 36:32

Yeah, I mentioned that my uncle was Johnny Frank Goss. Well, I come to find out after working for Johnny Williams for years, I found out his middle name is Frank.

SPEAKER_00 36:43

I'm like, only that's only fitting, man. That's only fitting.

SPEAKER_01 36:48

I mean, golly, it's just it was amazing. And and going back to Johnny basically pushing me out of the nest, you know, um, I had really no idea where I would was going. And when I went to the cardiovascular ICU as the educator, now this is a cardiovascular ICU that is at the top of cardiovascular ICUs. When I go into nursing programs, which is regular, and I talk to people about nursing and ask them what kind of nurse do they want to be. If somebody says, Well, I want to be an ICU nurse, the first thing I say is, Well, do you want to be an ICU nurse or do you want to be an elite ICU nurse? Because there's a difference. And everybody's like, What's the difference? You know, well, the difference is, is a cardiovascular ICU nurse can go to the other ICUs, medical ICU, critical care unit, surgical trauma ICU, neuro ICU, and they can do everything that those ICU nurses can do. But those ICU nurses cannot come to the cardiovascular ICU and do those things. So I'm going to the cardiovascular ICU as an ER nurse, old paramedic guy. And I remember praying, Lord, why in the world am I going to the cardiovascular ICU? These people that work in this area are the smartest nurses on the planet. There's no way I can teach them anything. Well, Steve, that was in August of 2019. So six months later, seven months later, I found out why the Lord actually wanted me in the cardiovascular ICU. It certainly was not because of my ability to educate. It was because COVID was hitting hard, and we became the COVID ICU unit. And people's family, friends, no visitors, people, you know, passing away in that unit alone. And I knew that's where I was supposed to be, man, to be in there, to have that opportunity to, you know, just sit with somebody, hold their hand, put a washcloth on their head, pray for them, whatever. You know, we we started an initiative that no one goes alone.

SPEAKER_00 39:21

Wow. So how how as a leader you're you you you you do a shift, is it well are they 12-hour shifts, eight hours, eight, eight, twelve-hour shifts as a nurse? Yeah. And then you go home, you get a little break, and then at some point in time you got to go back and do it all over again. Yeah. How the day in, day out, the grind, seeing the things that you were exposed to. How do you stay open to that, man, and and and not let it break you? That's tough, man.

Community Partnerships That Save Lives

SPEAKER_01 40:01

Yeah. You know, for me, it it it's because of my faith, I I do not see how people do it if if they're not leaning on their faith. And so, man, it's um the Lord has a way of putting you exactly where you need to be in health care. And what I mean by that is if you get a room assignment that particular day, sometimes some of the younger nurses would complain, I don't want those rooms, I don't want to be in that area today. And I would always tell them one-on-one after I would hear a comment like that at Shift Huddle, I'd say, you know, I never complain about an assignment where where I'm at for that day when I was at bedside. Because before the end of that 12-hour shift, the Lord will show you why you have that room assignment for that day. And that is a fact. So there are there are a lot of a lot of things that I'm still learning. And and when I went to the oncology unit, I was scared to death of that, man. I was scared to death of that. And the reason I was scared to death of that, when I was a child, I don't know if Brock went into this with you, but Brock's mom passed away when he was very young. He did. Yeah, he did. So I was 14 years old when she passed away, so I knew his mom very well, spent a lot of time with her. And I just remember when she was first diagnosed and the years and years of treatment and surgeries, and I was so scared of oncology and cancer patients because that my mind automatically Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:02

That's where you went. Went with it. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 42:05

Yeah. And but I trusted, you know, the faith, I trusted, and man, it was one of the best experiences of my life. It was just amazing.

SPEAKER_00 42:18

Well, and you know, it's like dog, it's almost like full circle, right? You you you you you had that experience when you were young, and then grown up, and as a young, as a young 40-some-year-old nurse now, you it becomes full full circle and you find yourself thrust back into that situation. Full circle, man. That's that's that's an amazing. And you know, when you have stories and when you you lead and you you serve from the heart, folks know, and they can tell.

SPEAKER_01 42:55

Well, that's the thing about leadership in my mind, you know, it it's it's all about that. It's about servant leadership. At least that's my style.

SPEAKER_00 43:06

Yes, sir.

Keeping Labor And Delivery Open

SPEAKER_01 43:06

I I never ask anyone to do something that they're not seeing me do. It was funny, just a couple of weeks ago, somebody caught me dust mopping the hallways at the hospital real early in the morning and took a picture, you know, and they were picking at me about it. But if I'm walking down the hall and I see a piece of paper on the floor, I'm gonna stop and pick it up. Every job is my job. And people also realize when you're just genuine about something and you just really want to help people, you know, that they'll walk over hot coals for you if they respect you and they trust you. And that was something that I learned at an early age. Actually, when I was in law enforcement, my first supervisor was very rough. And he would do things like string fishing lineup across the alley to make sure we went through there and checked our buildings that night, you know, and then he would call us out if we didn't. But my next supervisor, I loved the guy and I trusted him, and I would have done anything in the world for him. So early on, I was like, man, I'm not gonna be like this guy. I want to be like this guy. And and that's that's how I started, you know, going down that path of being a servant leader. I believe in it, I try to live it. And I, you know, for me, that's the only way I can lead.

unknown 44:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:36

And it isn't it amazing that we when when when you talk to folks or you convey a message or you communicate about leadership, a lot of times it's always, and when you ask questions like I've asked, you you always are asked questions about so who are the the leaders who influence you the most and and this and that. And nine times out of ten in in in the mind, it's the leaders that had a posit that had an impact because they were good leaders. But in reality, a lot of times you've had bad leaders or you've had bad supervisors, and you can learn so much more, probably as much, if not more, from them about how they did things and being like, yeah, I if I ever become a boss, I don't want to do that. I mean, that's that I mean that's an amaz I mean, that's amazing.

Big Bets In A Small Town

SPEAKER_01 45:30

Yeah, so I had a another guy that was very influential with me. I was working as the oncology director, and at that time we had a a new CEO come into our organization, and he brought a new COO in with him, and his name is Luis Fonseca. So Luis was new to the organization, and we had a monthly nurse leadership meeting where all of the directors and assistant vice presidents and the chief nurse would come to that meeting, and he stopped by to visit that day and introduced himself to us, and he said, Hey, if if any of you guys ever want to just sit down and talk with me, if you have any ideas or anything like that, you would like to run by me, just shoot me an email, and I'd love to talk with you. Well, of course, I immediately shot him an email. Like, I mean, I'm shooting one right now before he ever leaves the room. So a couple of days later, I went and sat and talked with him for a couple of hours, and within a month, we were traveling from Macon to Valdasta, Georgia, which is about a three-hour drive on a Saturday morning together, going to a drag race. And on that trip, I asked him that specific question. I said, everybody has that leader, that individual that they've worked with in their career, that believed in them and helped them get to the level that they knew they could lead at. I said, Who was that person for you? And he said, a guy named Henry. And he started telling me the story. When Luis got out of the military as a young man, he had gotten, he had been trained as an electrician in the military. And when he got out of the military, he went to work at a hospital in Texas in facilities working as an electrician. And he worked his way up to chief operating officer of some of the large healthcare systems in the United States. So a guy named Henry believed in him, and Luis Fonseca believes in me.

SPEAKER_00 47:48

That's that's a great story, man. So let's talk about where you are now. A CEO opportunity came up at with Atrium Healthcare Navicent, I think that's how you pronounce it, Baldwin in Milledgeville, Georgia, rural hospital. Why that role? And specifically, this hits home to me, rural health care, because I worked for an at an electric cooperative for 35 years, and we serve the rural areas. We serve where the IOU investor owned utilities didn't want to go and and provide power. So rural communities have a special place in my heart. So why Millsville, Georgia? Why a rural hospital, and why that role?

Education, Family, And Driving Purpose

SPEAKER_01 48:38

Yeah, I again it's it's just man, it's just the Lord's plan. I I had never worked in a rural hospital. I had only worked, so just a quick history lesson. The Medical Center of Central Georgia became the medical center of Central Georgia and Navasa Health because we were expanding beyond one hospital. And then Navasa Health had a merger with Carolina Health Systems and became HRIM Health. And now we've expanded even more through the Midwest. So now we're HRIM Health in the Southeast region, advocate health in our Midwest region. So we're the third largest healthcare system in the United States. But I have only worked basically at the Medical Center of Central Georgia. It's the second largest hospital in the state of Georgia. And I had never worked in rural health care. But this opportunity came available, and where I live, I'm 20 miles from the Medical Center of Central Georgia or 21 miles from Baldwin, the facility in Millsville. So I'm right in the middle. And Luis Fonseca felt like this would be a really good opportunity for me. And with my relationships that I've built in the community in Gray Georgia, which is 21 miles from here, I moved to Gray 30 years ago, have a lot of relationships in these rural areas. He just felt like it would be a good fit. He believed in my ability to lead the hospital. So at this particular facility, I'm the chief operating officer, but there I'm the highest ranking executive at this hospital. So we do not technically have a CEO on site here, so the COO runs the hospital.

SPEAKER_00 50:38

That's awesome. And so let's talk about that. Let's talk about some of the things that you're able to do at a rural at a rural hospital, a community hospital, probably some things that that you might not be able to have be accomplished, or they may take have taken longer to come to fruition at a at a bigger hospital. Tell me about the Life Jacket Lunar Station at the local at the local river park. That's not something that you typical hospital that's not a typical hospital initiative, but at your place in a rural setting, rural community, you saw a need, and I'm assuming you you stepped up, but but talk to me about that life jacket loaner station.

Legacy, Faith, And One Word: Caring

SPEAKER_01 51:37

Well, you're right. In a rural healthcare setting, there are there are so many opportunities to partner in the community. And I feel like leaders in rural hospitals should do more of that if they can, if they have the resources and the means to do that. And for historical here, Greg Joyner is the emergency medical services manager here at Baldwin. But we've expanded his role to include other rural services that we have in Wilkinson County and Jones County. But back in the day, as we like to say, 1996, Greg Jorner was my paramedic partner. So there's a lot of relationship there, a lot of years there. And Greg and I rode the ambulance together every shift for years. And he's the manager for the EMS services here at HM Helton House at Baldwin. So Greg came to me. The Life Vest Lawner Station has nothing to do with me. Greg came to me and said, in our area, we have a large water area. We have Lake Sinclair, we have Lake Oconee, we have River. So we deal with a lot of drownings every year in this area. So Greg was like, hey man, why don't we have a life vest loaner station where people can come up and and they can just get a life vest if they forgot theirs or they don't have one? We can have different sizes, we can put a throw ring on there as well, and we can get community partners to help us resupply the life vest as they're taken. So Greg Joyner and Sierra Petway, one of his supervisors, completely put that together. And just with with me just saying, Yeah, you know, go get them. You know, you guys do a great job, and and I'll support you any way I can. But man, that was all them. I'm just glad I was able to support them and be a small part of it.

SPEAKER_00 53:56

Yeah, you did, but now, yeah, you did make a a statement, a quote, and I and I'm attributing it to you. It was said, if we if we just stop one drowning, we're successful. And I want you to know, buddy, buddy roe, that quote stopped me. Because, you know, in an era of healthcare matrix and dashboards and ROI calculations and uh and and and everything that is so financially driven, you're holding on to that kind of simple human accounting. And to just talk about that a little bit, man.

SPEAKER_01 54:38

Man, the the uh those things that you just mentioned before this uh conversation we're having, I just left a three-hour budget meeting. I'm sure and those things are very important, but it's not the core of what we do. And I believe it's just that simple to look at every single person as the most important and to provide every resource we can to save as many lives as we can, but not only that, but just be helpful in so many ways. I I want to tell you about Lois Richardson. Lois Richardson is my trusted, amazing executive assistant. So she's been on all of our emails, you know, to get this going on. Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_00 55:36

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_01 55:38

We were at a point right after I came to Baldwin, we were at a a very we were in a crisis mode because we had four OB providers in this area that delivered babies at the hospital, but three of them were no longer gonna be practicing. One moved out of the state and two retired, which only left one. So we were in a dire situation that we were going to have to close those services here at this hospital, which is something that is happening across this country at levels that are astonishing. If we had closed the labor and delivery services here, it would have left a seven-county desert of no labor and delivery. And we were able to not only keep that service line open, but we opened a women's services clinic on site, offering full services, and we continue to deliver babies here, and we're expanding our residency program from Macon to here. But part of that was starting classes, family birthing classes. So we had a young lady that came to the very first family birthing, was the only one there that day. The first class, and only one person showed up. And about two weeks later, she had a car accident and totaled her car out. So she was not sure how she was going to get to her appointments, and she was not sure how she was going to come back to the classes. And Lois Richardson. She picked her up, took her to every appointment, and took her home. And that's the difference in rural health care.

SPEAKER_00 57:45

Rural health care. Well, man, yeah, that's an amazing story. And and it's hard not to be motivated by when you see your boss doing things like that. I mean, I'm you you would never that's Lois doing that, but but we we we do what we see done.

SPEAKER_01 58:02

And and so you would never I know you're trying to get it out of me, but the common theme here is it was Lois, it was Greg, it was Sierra.

SPEAKER_00 58:10

Yeah, yeah, I get it, man. Yeah, I get it. But now I I do want to share with my listeners this. You guys are doing a lot of amazing things there, and there's not a question in this. I've got a couple questions left, and then we're gonna go to rapid fire, which I didn't share with you. Those are quick, quick, quick hitting questions. But you guys are doing a lot of amazing things. Granted, you are the third largest healthcare system in the country, but you're doing this uh in a in a rural setting. You're gonna offset 40% of your hospital's power through solar energy. You're modernizing EMS operations with technology that connects ambulances directly to physicians in real time. You're gener you've generated your or you're generating almost a million dollars through the hospital's Georgia Heart program that's gonna help fund a new MRI machine.

SPEAKER_01 59:00

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 59:00

These these aren't small moves, man. I mean, this is happening in the in a rural setting, rural hospital, bold investment, and you're doing it in the rural setting. So you can't, I named several of them. I'm I'm not even gonna give you a chance to say whoever's responsible for that. I'm I'm just gonna I'm gonna move on and say, say that Todd Goss is is somewhere, Todd Goss is is responsible for you know for some of that happen happening. I want to bring this back full circle. I got a couple questions. You mentioned your mom, you mentioned masters. You're currently enrolled in in an MBA program while running a hospital. Most people at your career level have stopped adding degrees. I know why you haven't. Because you you've told that story. Yeah. But what does what this is the question that I that I've got. What did you what do you think it says to the folks that are around you that are working at the hospital, that know you, that don't know necessarily the motivation behind that MBA because you just haven't shared. That that's a personal story. You haven't shared it. Yeah. What do you hope that by you doing this, that communicates to them, or what kind of message do you hope it sends to them?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:30

Well, it's it's there's a lot of message there, but one is never sell yourself short. Believe in yourself, positive thoughts produce positive outcomes. And I hope that it just continues to motivate people to push forward, continue pushing forward. I have one nurse about a year ago came into my office and I was talking with her about continuing her education. She had gone about as far as I felt like she could with a bachelor's degree. So I talked her into a MSN Master of Science in Nursing, which is one of the master's degrees I have. And I talked Amy into doing that with the with the guarantee that I would be her preceptor, which I did. And she got her master's degree as well. So I hope that it just motivates one more person, man. Just one more.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:33

Yeah, that's a man. That's awesome. That's awesome. So the last question before I get to the to the rapid fire. When it's all said and done, when Todd Goss has left this role and this chapter closes, what do you want people to say about the way that you led?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:57

Man, I don't think that one was on the list.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:59

You no, it was. You must have just you missed it. But but but I mean that's a good one because that's a good question, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:09

The reality is, is um first off, I hope everyone knows that I just did it with good intentions. You know, every decision might not seem that it's that way. It's hard for everybody to think every decision I make is with good intentions, but it truly is. And I hope they say, man, no matter what, man, he gave it 110%.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:42

That's awesome. That yeah, that's that's awesome, man. That's awesome. So I'm gonna, you haven't seen these. That was there, you must you didn't see it, but I'm gonna ask you some things. There's some funny stuff. Yeah, she yeah, she hid that one from you. So there's uh there's some funny things, some some serious things. I I just want you to, first thing that comes comes to your mind, okay? First one, coffee or tea? Tea. Law enforcement, firefighting, or paramedicine, which one gave you the biggest adrenaline rush?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:19

Biggest adrenaline rush, firefighting.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:22

Okay. Best advice you ever received, and who gave it to you?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:28

If you say you're gonna do something, do it. George Bryce.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:33

Law enforcement, healthcare, or landscaping business. Which one taught you the most about running a business?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:42

Landscaping.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:45

I can see that. Biggest leadership myth that needs to die, to go away and die. I would, yeah, I didn't I'd agree with that. One leadership habit you practice every single day without fail. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yep. That's a great way to start start your day, man. You're a CEO, a COO running a hospital, and you're still in school. What does a typical Tuesday, Wednesday look like for TOG when you're in class, taking classes?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:41

So I um I get to work at uh about 3:30, 4 a.m. and I get as much done as I can before 7 a.m. And then my actual day starts. So I try to get as much of that done as I can between four and seven.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:02

Okay.

Closing Reflections And Next Steps

SPEAKER_01 1:05:03

And I mean the day really ends after that because at that point my daily uh calendar kicks in, and most days my work day is from about 4 a.m. until probably nine or ten at night.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:21

What keeps you up at night?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:29

Not providing all of the resources that I feel like I should be providing so my team can be successful.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:40

Okay, that's a great answer. If you could go back and have one conversation with your younger self, the guy who was just starting in law enforcement because he wanted to get in firefighting, but it was a five-year wait list, what would you tell him? One conversation.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:01

I would reassure that person that the Lord's plans for him are perfect and his plans are terribly flawed. I would tell myself, hey bro, do not develop your own plan because it's gonna fail every time.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:25

Absolutely. Final rapid fire. You've been a first responder, an entrepreneur, a nurse, and now a hospital executive. One word, just one word, that connects all of it. Caring. Caring. Dog, that's the perfect place to end the rapid fire. And I just want to tell you, man, this is just this has been an incredible, incredible conversation. Thank you for your time, for your stories. And mostly I can I know this, and thank you for your heart, man. I'm grateful for you joining me on the couch today, man. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:09

Appreciate the opportunity. You know, it just the the time went by so quick. And man, again, I hope we just were able to reach one person today. And and I do want to say too, man, you know, I talked about uh going through a divorce early in life, and and I've talked about my faith. But I will say that no matter what anyone's faith is, take time to be thankful for the things you have, and don't really worry or compare about the things that other people have. Just focus on yourself with a positive mindset. I remember being that single dad at home. My kids would be asleep in their room, and I would pray, Lord, it I mean, this is just how simple I am. I would literally pray like this. I'd be like, Lord, it's obvious I do not have the ability to choose my own wife. I mean, it's terrible. But I would really appreciate it if you help a brother out and send me perfect. And he did that. And all of the things that we've talked about today, from going back to school in a new job, moving through that job into leadership, not one thing would have been accomplished if it were not for Courtney Goss, my wife.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:38

That's awesome. That that is that is a very, very, very fitting way to conclude this this interview. And you're right, time went by by extremely fast. I I can already see where this is going. Next time we do this, we're gonna have three screens up there, and we're gonna have your nephew. We're gonna have Brock, Brock, Tog, and Steve, and we're gonna talk leadership and we're gonna share it with folks. So, Tog, again, appreciate it, man. Thank you for everything. Keep doing what you're doing, and we'll be in touch. Thank you, sir.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:17

Looking forward to it. Thank you, Steve.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:20

During my worker year, I had the privilege of meeting some extraordinary leaders. And the ones I remember the most are the ones who had the smooth ride. They were the ones who were willing to start over, to be the rookies again, to get out of their comfort zone. Todd Goss is one of those leaders. Law enforcement officer, firefighter, paramedic, entrepreneur, nursing student, and now the chief operating officer of a rural hospital while still going to school to get another master's. He didn't become a great leader despite starting over. He became a great leader because of it. Because he knows what it feels like to be the rookie in the room. Because he's worked every day in every part of that organization, and he's traded comfort for meaning. If you want to connect with Tog and learn more about his work, find him at toggoss.com. Toggoss.com. And if today's conversation resonates with you, share it with someone who needs to hear it. An emerging leader, someone who's sitting at cost rates, someone who's been told that's too late. If you're sitting there wondering what you need to do, I think Tog answered that question. That's what consulting from the couch is all about. Nuggets, tidbits, and takeaways from real leaders who've been in the trenches. This podcast is brought to you by BLC Consulting, a communications and organizational strategy group working with service-related businesses. Learn more at blcconsulting LLC.com. That's BLC ConsultingLLC.com. Until next time, keep learning, keep growing, and keep leading with heart. I'm Steve Goodson. Thanks for joining me on the couch.