How to Choose the Right Insurance Plan for You | Take Care Together Series | Ep. 18

Choosing a health insurance plan can be one of the most confusing and stressful decisions you make all year. Whether you're aging off your parents' plan, starting a new job, or navigating open enrollment, that list of options can feel overwhelming.

In the Take Care Together series, Melody Mulaik is joined by her daughter, Ashley, to break down the process from two different generational perspectives. They demystify the confusing jargon, explain the real-world differences between plan types, and give you a practical framework to help you stop guessing and confidently choose the plan that's actually right for your life and your finances.

Featured Topics: 

• Defines key financial terms like deductibles, copays, and co-insurance so you understand what you will actually pay.
• Explains the major differences between HMO and PPO plans, including the importance of networks and referrals.
• Melody and Ashley share their personal decision-making processes, balancing known health needs against potential "what-if" scenarios like hospitalization.

What You’ll Hear:

• [00:02:00] Why is money for insurance already coming out of my paycheck?
• [00:06:00] Decoding the Dollars: What Do These Terms Mean?
• [00:11:00] In-Network vs. Out-of-Network. 
• [00:13:00] The Big Decision: HMO vs. PPO
• [00:18:00] It's Personal: How We Choose Our Plans
• [00:25:00] Final Takeaways

Want to Ask Melody? Visit: https://takecarepod.com. Don’t forget to subscribe so you won’t miss an episode. If you're starting a new job, aging off your parents' plan, or just confused by terms like "deductible," "HMO," and "PPO," this episode is a must-listen.

Transcript

Melody: 0:13

Hi everyone, welcome to Take Care Together, a special series from the Take Care podcast. I'm Melody Mulaik, and I am joined today by my daughter Ashley.

Ashley: 0:23

Hi everyone. Like my mother here, I actually work in healthcare as well. And I'm super lucky because I get to work with my mom. So, this is a fun new series that we're starting. I'm excited to join my mom to do. You know, it's exciting to bring kind of two different perspectives to this conversation. Given that my mom has been in the industry clearly longer than I have. You know, I've been working with her now for about five years, so I've got to a lot of experience and insight just from a little bit of a different side. So, I know we're going to produce a lot of really great content and excited to share with you all.

Melody: 0:58

Well, I'm excited Ashley's here because as she said, we come at things from different perspectives in a really good way. And it helps us look at things across the generations, what people's concerns are changes as time goes on and as life goes on. And we want to make sure here at Take Care, that we're taking all the different perspectives and the consideration. So, today, we're going to tackle what are the things that you need to think about as you're selecting an insurance plan? So, it may be that you're doing it at the end of the year as you're getting ready for the next year. It could be that you've got to a new job, new position. Some people may be coming off their parents' insurance and looking to get insurance on their own. And so, there's a lot of different reasons that people are looking to get a new insurance plan. And there are some key things that you want to think about as you're going through that process. And so, Ashley definitely has some good questions and things that she and I have definitely discussed in debate as we walk through that process.

Ashley: 1:49

Definitely. I think I was the later of those examples you gave where you know, I turned 26 and I was presented a list of insurance plans and I said, I have no idea what I'm doing right now. So, talking about episode topics, I thought this would be the perfect one because there are people that are just now leaving their parents' insurance. But this really impacts everyone'cause we're almost at that time of year where you do have to select a plan. So, definitely very relevant topic. So mom, the first thing that I want to talk about, especially as a person that's newer in the workforce, when I see my first paycheck and I'm doing my benefits, enrollment, all of those types of things. I see all these deductions and some of that is related to my health insurance. So, can you kind of talk a little bit about why there's already money being taken out to pay for my insurance? Am I already paying that? Is my employer paying that? And then, why am I having to select a plan that's going to take even more money out of my paycheck, if that makes sense.

Melody: 2:48

Oh no, it's a great question and I think it's one that's confusing for everybody because it's expensive and healthcare always goes up every year. I think the thing that it's interesting most places. You know, we get insurance in the United States through our employers, which is a different model and I would say any place else in the world. And because of that, we know that the employer that we work for, their making sure that we can get insurance, but many of them, most of them pay a portion of that. Now, how much they pay varies a lot. You may be at someplace where they're able to be super generous and maybe they can cover all of the insurance. And so, when somebody goes to select something, it may just have zero. You're not going to have to pay anything additional. But other places, and I would say probably more commonly, the employer pays a portion of it. And then, a portion of it gets passed back to the employee. And sometimes what places will do is they'll pick a plan. And they'll say, okay, if you pick this plan, we'll pay all the piece that they have to pay to the insurance company. But if you want something above and beyond that plan, which we'll kind of talk about, what does that mean? Then, you're going to pay additionally out of pocket for it. So, that's why there's so much variation between jobs and between other things of what is going to potentially come out of your paycheck. It's all based on what is that employer actually going to contribute? And again, I haven't seen a single place where it goes down in terms of what an insurance company's going to charge somebody on a yearly basis. So, unfortunately, it's one of those where it continues to climb up every single year, and you're always trying to figure out, okay, what's it going to be as I go into this next year? For sure.

Ashley: 4:19

That's a great explanation. I'm going to go off script'cause I personally just thought of a question that, you know, if I'm looking at a new job, not that I'm ever going to leave you at work.

Melody: 4:28

Okay.

Ashley: 4:28

But if I'm someone who's looking for a new job and you know, I'm considering the benefits that the company offers, is it normal'cause I know with our company we're offered quite a few different plans to choose from? Do all companies give you a lot of choices? Do some only give you two choices? What do you think is normal for that?

Melody: 4:47

It's a good question. I think there's usually more than one choice. And it's usually because you have typically a insurance company, so there's a lot of different ways that companies can offer insurance. Some places do it themselves and they'll directly work with an insurance company. Usually, that's going to be big, big companies that do it. Smaller companies typically are going to go to something that's an employment company, or some group that kind of pulls together lots of options for smaller companies. And typically, they're going to have a contract with one. So, it'll be one of the national firms with that. And again, it could be, if you're only located in one state, it might be a little different. I'm purposely hesitating from using insurance company name for a lot of reasons. But they typically are going to just pick one. And then, within that, then we get into that question of, oh, we'll talk how much of a deductible or what's matter, maximum amount of money that I'm going to have to pay. But typically, they're going to give you one insurance company and then multiple plans. And how many plans? That's a really great question because it could be as small as I have three options. It could get really kind of crazier where all of a sudden I've got six or eight options. And that's where it sometimes can get really confusing and even more stressful because you're trying to figure out, well, what's really the difference in these plans, and am I making the best decision? For what I think is going to happen to me next year'cause that's really what you're doing with insurance is you don't know. I mean, in some situations you may have conditions that you know you're going to have to manage, but for a lot of times people, especially younger people are healthy. You don't really think there's any issues that are coming up. And so, you're trying to think how do you balance what's the least amount of money I can pay, but also make sure I have the best insurance that I can have.

Ashley: 6:19

I see you are trying to transition into our next topic when we're talking about all these different plans. You know, most of the time what we're choosing between is what's our deductible going to be? What's our max out of pocket going to be? Let's start talking about the dollar signs associated with these different choices. And because I am not someone who is good with textbook definitions, I would love for you to kind of walk us through deductibles, co-insurance, copays, and then maybe I can bring some light to you know, how do you choose a high deductible versus low deductible and other things that you have to consider. Because I definitely think it varies by the person deductibles may matter for some people, but not as much for others, whereas out of network may matter for some and not for others. So, why don't we just start defining some of those terms.

Melody: 7:12

Yeah. Let's start with the simplest. So, copays is the easiest to understand. Copay is if I go visit a doctor or I go have a service, I know I'm going to pay X dollars every time I go. And so, when you look at what are my options for insurance plans. And you scroll down, you look and say, okay, if I go to my primary care physician, is it$25 copay? Is it$35 copay? I go to a specialist, those numbers go up. It goes up to like$50,$70. And again, it varies all over the board. And even things like if I go to the emergency room or I go to urgent care, it'll list a flat copay. At least, that's what the majority of plans do. And so, you can compare those and you will see, you know, one way to think about it is the more you pay upfront, meaning the more that comes out of your pay paycheck or the more that your employer pays. Those numbers tend to go down a little bit. If you pay more on the front end, a lot of times those copays go down depending on that plan. If I want to pay less out of pocket, out of my paycheck, then potentially it's going to go up with that. So, if you start looking at numbers, you'll start going, wait a minute, if you're asking me to pay more upfront, then these numbers go down. That's why'cause they want to make sure they get their money out of you. So, copays are those amounts. Those are important. You won't tend to find a ton of variation with copays, even across multiple plans. Where it really comes into is deductibles. So, deductibles are the things that's basically the insurance company's way of saying, I want you to have some skin in the game on this. And before we really start paying for stuff, we want to make sure that you are going to pay for things. Because if you don't ever have to pay anything out of pocket, in their mind, you're going to use insurance a lot more because hey, it doesn't cost me anything. Where if you know, I've got a thousand dollars deductible, or$2,000, or 5,000. That means you're going to pay that money out of pocket and they're going to track it and they're going to look and they're going to say, okay, Ashley, you've paid$890 of your a thousand dollars deductible. And until you pay that other one 10, it's still on you. Then, they're going to start kicking in and starting to pay for things. So, that's really, really important fine print to look at on plans. It'll say we pay, you're only going to have to pay 10% or 20% after you meet your deductible. So, what is that number? For a lot of people, that's one of the most important things that they look at is, am I going to pay again,$500 deductibles, very low. That's considered a very, very low deductible. A lot of times people are making decisions between, am I going to pay$2,000 out of pocket,$3,000 out of pocket? And then, you have what's called high deductible plans, which usually could go up to be 6,000, 10,000, whatever. And you know, again, that's a choice if people want to do it. As a younger person, you have to look at are there medical conditions that you have or that you're looking at? Because a lot of times, younger people are going to want lower deductibles. Just because again, you got to balance what's your paycheck going to be versus what can you afford out of pocket as you think about deductible. So, that's where that gets tricky. Think of deductible as, if I get sick, or if I have conditions that need to be managed. If I'm have that deductible, I'm going to pay that a thousand dollars, that$2,000 across the course of the year. And am I comfortable doing that? A lot of times you'll find again, if you've got a healthy, young adult. And the only thing they're really concerned about is, heaven forbid I'm in a car accident, or I have to go to the emergency room for that, you may find they decide to do a high deductible plan because they figure, Hey, I haven't had to pay any healthcare in two to three years. So, I feel like I'm pretty good. So, it's like a, I won't say you're gambling, but you are kind of trying to balance what that looks like. So, I don't know if that helps with understanding the difference with that. Tell me if I missed something in the explanation.

Ashley: 10:36

No, I think you got it. And before I kind of talk about from my perspective, what I look for when I'm thinking about deductibles and how that applies to me. I know one question, I scrolling through TikTok or whatever. People often ask, I don't understand why I'm paying when I'm already getting that amount taken out of my paycheck. My employer's already contributing to my insurance. Why do I have to pay deductible on top of that? I know you kind of touched on that already. But it makes sense when you think about it big picture, when you do consider this is benefits for the next year. We're not looking at this week by week, paycheck by paycheck. If you think about your employer and that amount that you're getting deducted from your paycheck. That's going to the insurance company. And if we think about how insurance works, if we just pay that one amount, that's not going to cover health insurance government. Right. It's not great. It's not awesome. Right. Our system in general is flawed and we've still got some areas to improve on. But we have to kind of put our business hat on to think about this as much as it sucks, as much as we don't want to pay more money. It's a business at the end of the day. So, I definitely think that's something to realize as well. One thing that you didn't touch on that I'd love for you to talk about really quick is the co-insurance or the out of network portion. Because I know personally for me, out of network was something I had to really consider given my current situation.

Melody: 12:03

Yeah. So, I'll mention co-insurance. So, that is when you look at it, and again, you're looking at what is the insurance company going to pay versus what you're going to pay. Once you've met your deductible, there will tell you, you're going to owe 10% or 20% of whatever they've contracted with that particular hospital physician group whatever. That 10%, 20% is called your co-insurance. That's basically where you're joining together with the insurance company and kind of paying your share to your point with that. I mean the in network and outer network I think is a huge thing for some people, other people not so much. And I think that you really do have to think about what in-network versus out of network means is, does that physician or hospital group or whomever, do they have a contract with that insurance company that you have, right? So, if you've got an insurance company. Insurance company A, and they go out and they negotiate things. And they work with a physician. They go, Hey, I want you to be in my network so we can say, Hey, go see Dr. Z and Dr. X and all those types of things with that. But sometimes they don't come to terms or they're just not in a particular area and say they don't have a contract with them. So, they're not obligated to pay for them necessarily. So, it depends on your insurance plans. Some insurance plans will allow you to see out of network physicians. They will pay them, but they usually require you as a patient to pay more money out of pocket. That means the insurance company wants you to pay more. Some insurance plans say, we don't cover out of network. Period. And what that means is you can go see anybody you want to, but that means they're not going to pay a dime. So, if you're a traveler, I mean, I travel, you travel. I want to make sure that whatever insurance plan I pick has out-of-network benefits. Because I don't know if I'm in the middle of somewhere else in the United States and something happens and I need to go to the emergency room, who knows? Maybe I get appendicitis or things that you just can't control or think about. And if I don't have out-of-network coverage, I'm going to be stuck paying for all that.

Ashley: 13:50

So, now that we've talked about the money factor of the plans, I know something that was entirely new to me. And this is something that's actually not common knowledge, which I didn't really realize. But when you look at your plan options, there's your carrier's name or the plan name, gold, blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever. But then, there's three letters, HMO, PPO, EPO. I had no idea what that was. Can you kind of explain that, because I know you'll do a much better job at explaining it than I can.

Melody: 14:19

I think the two big ones really are HMO and PPO. So, HMO Health Maintenance Organization. Think of HMO as, it's really like a closed system. So, if you go into, you choose and there's a lot of great ones out there, but if you choose to go into that system, you are going to go to their physicians who they select. And you really aren't able to go to other physicians. And there's always exceptions to that. Like if it's some super, super specialist you need to go to, and maybe they don't have that super, super specialist within the organization, they may have a relationship with one. But as a general rule, you are going to go and get all of your care within their closed network is one way that I like to think about it. So, you don't really have as many options where in a PPO, you basically, whoever they have an agreement with, you're allowed to go for that. So, it gives you more flexibility. Now, there's costs associated, back to your point about costs. HMOs tend to be less expensive for you out of pocket because it's a closed network. In other words, they're very tight. They may employ all those physicians, as an example. They're able to control costs more. So, a lot of times in an HMO situation, the insurance company is almost functioning as a provider a little bit in a lot of situations. And because they can control those costs, they're able to pass those cost savings onto you. So, PPOs are going to be more expensive. You know, I was just looking at, I got a question recently from somebody who was young and she's talking about having a baby in the next year or two, and she was choosing between an HMO and a PPO. And while me personally, I'm going to lean towards a PPO because of where my physicians are and all those types of things. But for her, that HMO made a lot of sense financially for her. It was going to be less expensive. They had very good OB GYN care. She could still go to the same hospital that I would go to. So, it wasn't restrictive at all, but she had to really get into that level of detail. So, HMO less expensive, but less control of who you go to, which again may be perfectly fine based on where somebody lives. PPO gives you more flexibility, but it is going to cost you a little bit more money.

Ashley: 16:17

I think one thing to add with that, just given what I see at work one, because I'm someone that works in the behind the scenes. You know, I'm not working with doctors every day, but I'm working with the people that are scheduling your doctor's appointments or getting your authorizations, checking your insurance, things like that. One really important factor to consider with HMOs is the necessity of referrals. So, when you think about it if you basically have one primary care physician and that's going to be your best friend for the next year because they're the ones that are going to have to write your referral to see any other type of doctors. Again, HMO's not bad or anything like that, may be the right fit for you, but it will be important for you to establish a primary care provider that one you like because you're going to spend time with them, obviously. But two, you know, it's a practice, a group that you can rely on to send out those referrals in a timely manner, send them to the right people. So, that's definitely another aspect of the HMO to really keep in mind. Whereas BPO, you don't need those referrals. It's not a requirement.

Melody: 17:19

Right. And that's a really good point. The other thing I would add though, with an HMO is depend on the organization. And again, somebody might be listening to this and say this is not true for them. But a lot of organizations, it's not even guaranteed you're going to see that same physician. So, if you're going in an HMO to an internal medicine practice. Because they view it very much as a team focus. It may be that you're seeing doctor B instead of doctor A this time. Especially in an OB GYN practice, you're going to go to that group. And again, you may find that you're at the same doctor, but a lot of times it's not. It's just they kind of treat it a little bit more as a little bit pod mentality with it.

Ashley: 17:53

Definitely. So I feel like we've covered the majority of the important information that you consider when you're looking at a plan. So, maybe let's talk about kind of what I look at when I look at a plan versus what you look at. Because if you think about it, one, obviously we're at different stages in life, but we also live in different areas, have different offerings within healthcare. So, maybe just thinking about the financial side first. Because I know for a lot of young people, that's the first place for me personally, I know that I am expensive and I tend to have this habit of tearing joints in my body. So, I was the one helping you meet your deductible, when I was on the family insurance. And now, that I'm on my own, luckily I haven't done that again. Knock on wood. But I know each year that I'm going to have a high cost throughout the year because I get allergy shots, which is, you know,$400,$500 every time you get your vials refilled. So, for someone like me that has a long-term condition that I know I'm going to receive services for throughout the year, I know I'm going to have to go see my doctor. So, I have that. And then God forbid I tear something again or break an arm, whatever, I'm more than likely going to be spending more. So, for me, a lower deductible makes sense. But I'm curious for you financially wise,'cause I don't know about you, but I don't really look at copays that much or co-insurance. For me, it's not really that relevant, because it is a smaller amount and being someone with their finance cap on. I look at the bigger picture. I start with that deductible. But when you look at the finances of the plan offerings, what do you look at now that you have the troublemaker off your insurance plans.

Melody: 19:39

Yeah, that's true. You were the deductible child, everyone has one. So, you know, it is just me on there because actually your dad has insurance through his company. And they supplement stuff and it just financially just makes sense for us to keep it separate. Actually, it's funny you mentioned about the deductible. That's not just deductible with the co-insurance. Actually, the co-insurance is one of the main things I look at. because I'm at an age now that if something happens and I need to go into the hospital, right? I hope not. But if I have to go to the hospital and have surgery or have an inpatient visit, that gets to be big dollars. So, I scroll down to look at what happens if I'm in the hospital, what's my out-of-pocket going to be? And for some plans it will give you and it will say you only pay$500 for an inpatient visit. And that's it. That's great. Other ones might say, oh, well, if it's an inpatient visit after you meet your deductible, then it's going to be 10% or it's going to be 20%. Well, there's a big difference between meowing 20% of an inpatient hospital bill of whatever's in the negotiated rate'cause we know we don't pay exactly what they charge. But negotiated rate versus if I only have to pay a$500 per admission type thing. So, that's where you can get into this could be pretty significantly different from a cost standpoint. So, that's one of the things I look at. And I think maybe as people get older, thinking about what are different ways that you're going to use insurance that would come into play?

Ashley: 21:02

I'm going to add a daughter deductible on there. So, if you do get sick and I have to drive over there. I'm listed on the plan.

Melody: 21:08

There you go. There you go.

Ashley: 21:10

So, I guess the other thing that I really think about and this I think is more relevant for me than you. Because you living where you live in a larger city with a lot of different healthcare providers and health systems there, you're lucky. And let me just say, you don't know what you have until it's gone, my friend. Now, that I live somewhere, I basically have rural healthcare and there aren't many providers where I live that are actually in network. So, I kind of had to consider two aspects of the plan with that being said. You know, one, I actually looked at the out of network max, which is typically, I mean, it's going to be more than your deductible, and that's not something I may necessarily meet. But I don't know if there's some amazing orthopedic surgeon out there and I blow out a knee or something. Maybe that's a scenario where I would use that. So, I do look at the out of network max, but I also really looked at the HMO versus PPO. I think there's quite literally only one or two groups in town that are in network for primary care. So, it's basically the group I go to and then the university that's located there. And it really would limit my options if I went with an HMO and I actually do see providers as a self-pay patient because everything's out of network where I live. I mean, I can go drive an hour, but you know that driving an hour, sitting in the office for however long it is. And then, driving back, that takes out half my day. So, for someone like me living somewhere where there's not as many providers and the ones that are there aren't in network, an HMO doesn't make any sense. But I can already guess that you probably have a PPO, or I mean you could have an HMO, I don't know, but was that something that you really considered when you looked at the plans?

Melody: 22:57

Yeah. It does very much depend on where people live in the country. And so, everybody has to kind of take stock of that. Me personally, flexibility is one of my greatest priorities. I want to go to what doctor I want to go to, and I want to go to them. And so, that's something that for me personally, a PPO is a better option for that. And again, I want to be very clear, there's a lot of great HMOs that are out there. And those are great solutions for a lot of people. We're not talking badly about HMOs at all. But I think just exactly what we're kind of walking through. Everybody has to take stock about what's not just a priority for them, but what are the things they need to take into consideration? So, yes, I am a PPO person, but again, it's based on my location. It's based on what my specific needs are. Who my physicians are. And so, that's the best choice for me. But again, helping somebody walk through this process very recently, the HMO option was the perfect option for her, and it was great and it was the great balance. So, it's a very individual personal decision. I think everybody has to go through. And that's why I think we always have to be careful when somebody just says, oh, well this is the only way to go, or this is the perfect plan to pick. And I wish it was that easy for everybody because if it was, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. But I think everybody's responsibility is not the right word, but I think it's really behooves everybody to take that time to go through and understand it. And I know it's frustrating and I know it's confusing sometimes. But really breaking it down. And making sure that all, everybody identifies what's really important to them as they make decisions. Again, sometimes it's into year, sometimes it's changing jobs. Whenever that time happens that people have to select insurance. They need to make sure they don't feel rushed doing it, and they can take time to get their questions answered and feel good about it. And then, sometimes you pick a plan and you get through the year and you're like, man, I wish I hadn't picked that plan. I wish I'd picked one that had a lower deductible. Or I wish I'd picked a plan that had this flexibility. And so, you learn and then the next time you go through the process, you have a chance to make some changes. And the other thing I would just say is I think it's really important to give feedback to the employer. If you really don't like the insurance plan that your company has chosen, I don't view it as being just negative or complaining. I think you need to be very specific about what it is about the plan you don't like. Is it they don't like have certain things that they cover. They limit what doctors you can go to. The customer service was not good. Whatever it is, be very specific, but definitely give feedback because employers listen. I mean, I will say, I do get to play a role where I help select who the insurance company is that we're going to be using. And there are insurance companies that it's not even open for debate. We're not going to use them. And again, I'm not going to call them out on here, but there's certain ones, it's like, don't even bring those to me because I'm not going to ask. I don't want that insurance and I don't want our team to have that insurance as well. Because I know some of the frustrations and challenges with it.

Ashley: 25:42

As a high takeaway,'cause you just went over, I feel like my brain is just now full with information that I hadn't even thought about. I'm someone who is a numbers person, doesn't like words. So, maybe let's both come up with like a one takeaway, like if you were to walk away from this podcast episode. What do you want that person to know? And I'll let you go first.

Melody: 26:04

Oh, nice. Put me on the spot with that. So.

Ashley: 26:07

Can't be surprised.

Melody: 26:08

If I'll boil it down to one. I think it's take the time to understand your options, right? Read the fine print, understand what you're really being asked to pay for. So that you're not surprised if you pick a high deductible plan and you're going to pay$5,000 in deductible. You got to know that you're going to be spending that$5,000 in addition to your copays.'Cause copays don't count towards your deductible. You're going to be spending that money until the insurance kicks in and that starts adding up quickly. And you're like, oh my goodness, I had no idea that I'm asked to pay$700 for this and$500 for this. And so, really understand that fine print, really understand what you're signing up to. So, you're not stressed out trying to figure out how you're going to cover your bills.

Ashley: 26:51

Definitely. That was going to be part of my first point of not just necessarily picking the cheapest plan, which that again, could be the right fit. We're not saying anything is right or wrong, but we're saying do your research. But from someone in my shoes, I think my number one takeaway would be, use your magic crystal ball to look into the future and think about next year. Think about where you are in life. What conditions can potentially you run into? What does the next year look like? And for me personally, I'm at the age where I'm going to have a kid someday, so I might have to think about that a year in advance. Yeah. Oh, I, no. Don't want a kid today, but maybe I will in, I don't know, October of next year. And that's stuff that you have to consider being realistic, you know? So, it's really, even if you are younger. You got to think about the future, and I know that's so hard to do sometimes I like knowing when everything's going to happen and put it on my calendar. It's not really on my calendar'cause I'm not that organized, but I like to know that it's happening. But you know what Melody said of do your research, make that decision of what makes sense for you financially. But do think about the future and consider what may happen in the next year.

Melody: 28:01

No, all great points. Well, appreciate you being with me. I'm looking forward to us getting together and doing this and bringing up great topics and addressing great topics from people. For everybody listening to the session today, thank you for joining us. If you've got questions or topics that you'd love Ashley and I to tackle together, please go onto the website and put that question in. Send it over to us and we would love to discuss it at our next time together. So, Ashley, I know you're out taking care of clients, so safe travels always home. And thanks everybody for joining us. Until next time, take care.