The Rhythms and Realities of Tipitina’s: A Conversation with Brian Greenberg

Today’s guest is Brian Greenberg, the General Manager of Tipitina’s, a popular and familiar club in New Orleans named after a song by the musician Professor Longhair who performed there until his death in 1980. After working in radio, Brian started with Tipitina's over two decades ago and has been responsible for keeping its heartbeat steady for the last seven years. Brians shares what it takes to manage what is both a business and a cultural institution that symbolically belongs as much to the people of New Orleans as to the musicians who grace its stage.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02: 0:00

Local music clubs abound in cities across the world. They serve as performance catalysts as well as havens for local residents to sway or dance to tunes by local musicians. These clubs are, however, urban icebergs. The tips representing the entertainment value for most, while the rest of the structure is unseen. Today, we're diving below the waterline to learn what else lies beneath the success of these cultural venues. Welcome to Bringart Law's Lang App, where we provide a little extra perspective through conversations. I'm Mari Sprungart, your host. I enjoy engaging with experienced, knowledgeable, and passionate individuals for the opportunity it affords to enrich our understanding of the world through their eyes. The more we learn, the more likely we can become better versions of ourselves, guide others towards the same, and perhaps have a little fun along the way. Today's guest is Brian Greenberg. He is the general manager of Tipitinas, a club in New Orleans named after a song by the musician Professor Longhair, who performed there until his death in 1980. Brian has kept the heartbeat of Tipatinas steady for the last ten years as general manager. And he will share what it takes to run an institution that belongs as much to the people of New Orleans as to the musicians who grace its stage. Welcome to the program, Brian.

SPEAKER_01: 1:19

Thanks for having me. You're a great writer, by the way. Sorry to cut you off. I really enjoyed that intro. I hope that's not bleeding too much into the whole structure. Sorry. I'm gonna be pretty casual about this. I hope you're right with that.

SPEAKER_02: 1:30

Not at all. And apologies to the audience. Uh Brian has been general manager for seven years, but he's been with the club much longer. So why don't you tell us uh when you started with the club and what got you over here?

SPEAKER_01: 1:42

Uh I first started in July of 2003. Um I was literally just kind of looking for a job to pass the time in the summer. I was taking a couple of summer classes while I was going to Tulane and I was an intern at the uh the radio station here, WWOZ. Um and that was filling my weeks up okay, but I had extra time. I wanted a little extra scratch, so I asked my boss over at OZ if he knew anyone that was, you know, hiring something part-time, any bars or just something real easy, real casual. And he had a friend named Stacy who was working here at Tipatinas at the time and said, Oh, let me call my friend Stacy. Uh and he set me up. I came over here and, you know, filled out an application, and a few days later I got a call saying, Hey, can you work next Friday? And that's kind of how it started. Just working on the door staff, checking IDs, working, you know, the VIP entrance or whatever else, just on the basic security stuff.

SPEAKER_02: 2:33

And tell us a little bit about the the place that we're actually having this conversation in, the green room.

SPEAKER_01: 2:38

Well, the green room is, you know, upstairs, literally above the stage. A lot of people don't uh realize that that's where the green room is. And I it is kind of a strange space, not just this room, but the building itself. Just uh, you know, it's a hundred, hundred and ten-year-old building. Um, not intended to be a music venue of its size at the very least, and has just kind of morphed into that. And these are uh a couple of rooms that are uh interesting, I would say, if for the mere fact that at one point in time it was just an apartment. I was explaining you earlier how the upstairs back in the day was just six separate apartments. Um, this was just one of the apartments that were upstairs, and I believe if I'm not mistaken, I haven't confirmed this with him, but I had heard recently that this was Cyril Neville's apartment before it was Tipatinas, or sometime around then in the 70s, he was actually living up here. So it is funny though I think we're we're sitting in his living room from 45, 50 years ago or something.

SPEAKER_02: 3:36

And had you been familiar with Tipatinas before you took that first job? I mean, had you already come here and heard some of the the bands playing?

SPEAKER_01: 3:43

Yeah, I was uh a freshman at Tulane in 2000, and it was probably a month or so after living here that someone brought me to a show and I saw George Porter Jr. and the Running Partners, and it's it's a funny thing. Like I walked in and just kind of instantly knew this place was cool, didn't know anything about it, didn't know Professor Longhair, knew almost nothing about New Orleans music. It was kind of one of the reasons why I wanted to go to school here because it had just something interesting to offer, like a type of city that I hadn't been to before and hadn't really known anything about. And I was I was hooked. I I knew this was the coolest music venue in the world as soon as I walked in.

SPEAKER_02: 4:21

And and today, right now, uh what tell us a bit about Tipatinas itself. How large is the team that runs this place?

SPEAKER_01: 4:29

It's um, you know, I think it might even be bigger or smaller than most people think. We have dozens and dozens of employees, but there's really only six or seven of us that are like full-time administrative staff. Um, excuse me. Uh there's, you know, myself, I have a venue manager. Her name's Mary Slassen. She's in charge of the bartenders, the door staff, things like that, uh, general operations. Um I have a production manager named Chloe. She's in charge of the sound guys, the light guys, all the text, all the people that come in here, the logistics of getting the bands in and out and all anything production-wise, anything you see or hear while you're in here is her department. Uh, I got a booking agent uh named Nick. He is in charge of all the booking. He also oversees all of the uh like the marketing and promotion efforts. Um, got a box office manager named Tanner, and he's in charge of all box office and graphics. He's a very good graphics, you know, graphic um designer. I don't know. He's a bit of an artist himself. Um got a special events coordinator uh named Jeremy, whenever we have weddings or corporate events, things like that, he handles that. I have a bar manager who's basically like the head bar back that's in charge of all the inventory. Um I got a merchandise coordinator, she's in charge of the online store and making sure that our merch counter always has plenty of t-shirts and hats and knickknacks and all the things that we sell. Um, and uh yeah, bar manager uh in charge of the inventory behind the bar. So it's I guess it's probably about what nine? How many people was that? I wasn't even counting.

SPEAKER_02: 6:02

About that many, I wasn't counting either. Uh what I was actually wondering uh while you were talking is if during this time you've had to create new positions, say like a social media manager.

SPEAKER_01: 6:14

Yeah, um, it's not even necessarily a new position. It's um it's been something that is relatively new, I guess, in in the scheme of Tipatinas, you know. Um, but Nick, who uh is our booking agent, was overseeing all of our social media, and he still technically is, but he's got an assistant now who's working part-time that we are moving into more of a full-time role to take over all of the social media and all of the marketing um so that he can focus all his time just on the booking. Like it's most people think that you just call up a band and say, Hey, you want to play a show, and they say, Yeah, cool, we'll be there on Saturday. It's not really like that. Or they'll be, you know, they they they think that we work just at night. This is a day job. You know, this is and it ain't a 40-hour week job either. This is uh this is an everyday job for most of us.

SPEAKER_02: 7:04

Bands are not as fortunate as as I was when I reached out to you and said, Hey, would you like to be a guest?

SPEAKER_01: 7:10

Well, I mean, if it was that easy just to book a band, then yeah. But unfortunately, they have managers and agents, and uh, you know, they're they're not all just living in the neighborhood and can just cruise by at five o'clock to set up, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 7:21

So how many shows do you all do in a year?

SPEAKER_01: 7:23

Um we do uh roughly, I think this year, 180, 185 is pretty average. That's and that's just not specifically just public shows, but private events as well. Um yeah, we about I think 167 public ticketed shows and 20, 25 private events, yeah, something like that.

SPEAKER_02: 7:44

Now, when you're considering hosting a a new band, one you're unfamiliar with, do you require an audition or that they send you a copy of their music?

SPEAKER_01: 7:54

No, I mean the the world is a little bit different, I think, than booking of like how we sit down and think about how things might have used to work back in the 80s or something like that. Uh just for the mere fact that there might have been auditions. For us, uh, the internet is almost your audition. It's it's kind of weird that like the idea of sending out a demo tape is just wasting resources. Like you can just email a URL, you know, like you can see most bands have some sort of video or audio component uh component available for you to hear what they sound like and look what look at what they put on or how they perform or anything like that. And also, we're a big room. Just because Tipotinas is popular doesn't mean we're full every time we open up, you know. Like I wish it was that cool that we could just open the doors and people just show up. When I first started working here, it almost seemed like that's how easy it was, but I guess that's how naive I was to the whole process. Um, yeah, I mean we have plenty of shows that are fantastic musicians, but there's only you know hundred-ish people that might show up, and we're an 800-person room. You can fit 800 people in here, and it's it doesn't look fun when you're playing into a big empty room. And because we've been around and we have a good history and credibility as a music venue, bands reach out to us constantly. Hey, we'd love to talk about, we'd love to perform there, or we'd be great for your room, that sort of thing. And maybe they sound good, but you know, they this is the other sad part about the music industry. Being good and talented is no marker for success. That's that's kind of the sad reality of this business. Is I see the greatest musicians in the world in this town, week in, week out, perform in front of literal dozens at best sometimes. What does that say?

SPEAKER_02: 9:46

I'll ask you to elaborate on that in a moment. Uh, going back to when you're going to consider hosting someone you're completely unfamiliar with, how do you make the decision? I take it you make it in conjunction with the others here at Tipatina's, you all listen to folks play, but it I'm sure it's more than music. You're trying to picture them and connecting with uh the audience or people here in New Orleans.

SPEAKER_01: 10:09

Absolutely. Um you know it's it's almost uh because we have the internet is the best resource that we have to do any kind of research and homework. We we take very calculated risks. And I put that on Nick Logan, who's our talent buyer, booking agent, whatever you want to call that role. Um he is uh very good. He's got his finger on the pulse, like he's hearing about things that I've never heard about, and he's paying attention to a lot of things, but also he's been around long enough that he knows a lot of agents that work for bigger agencies or the smaller boutique agencies that he can trust their work. Now, granted, they're all trying to make money themselves, so they're gonna say how great this person is, or you gotta you gotta book my band, they're great. It's like, cool, like we'll we'll give them a percentage of ticket sales. They're like, no, no, no, we need a guarantee. It's like, well, we need a guarantee too. What's our guarantee? Like, and New Orleans, as as good of a music town as this is, I think people outside of New Orleans really underestimate how hard it is to sell tickets in this town. Like, there's so much music that is available to people, and everyone has very specific tastes on what they like musically, especially in New Orleans, that just because your band crushes in Houston or Tampa, Atlanta, Chicago, or any major market doesn't mean you're gonna really move the needle in New Orleans.

SPEAKER_02: 11:34

And going back to what you said before, you've witnessed uh very talented musicians, uh, but they're just not attracting the audience. So, what is it they're lacking from your observations over time? Uh or what do you think's missing?

SPEAKER_01: 11:49

I I honestly uh you know, I'm I'm not an old guy by by any respects. I'm I'm 43 years old, but I'm starting to feel like the old guy because uh I'm starting to pull the same thing that I heard 20 years ago when I was a younger man, being like, oh, your generation and these kids today, these kids today. Something that we are underestimating is these kids today. Um when I was a college student, uh, I was interested in everything. Like I would make new friends and then be like, hey, we're gonna go check out this band or go to this bar. And I'd have a smartphone. I couldn't like look it up beforehand. I was like, yeah, let's go. Like, oh, there's gonna be a cover charge. Uh-oh, well, how much is that gonna be? Uh, maybe like 15 or 20 bucks. All right, yeah, let's go check it out. So you take a cab with a bunch of strangers you don't know so well, or hop in someone's car you don't know so well, you go to a part of town that you don't know anything, you don't have a cell phone, you don't have a reliable ride home, you don't know what the bar is gonna be like, and you know, you just kind of took a chance and enjoyed the mystery of going out and finding something new. And I found all kinds of great music and musicians and it interesting people, and a lot of bad music and bad people and all the bad experiences, too. Um, that just seemed like part of it. And uh we we've kind of changed, and not just the younger generation, but as a society, people don't want to take the leap on something they're not sure about. Like we do have plenty of people that will come to Tipatinas just because they've heard of Tipotinas and they're in town visiting, and their friend told them, Oh, I saw the Neville brothers there in 1993, you gotta go check out this place. They don't care who's playing. That's not a lot of people, that's just some people. But people in general are not consuming live entertainment like they used to. And part of that is the younger generation. I mean, you know, once you get in your 30s, 40s, 50s, and beyond, the idea of going out for some drinks, even if you don't plan on getting drunk, but just going out and being on your feet for more than an hour or two at a time seems like such a stretch, right? Like you're smiling at me and you're thinking, yeah, I don't know if I feel like standing around a bar for something I don't know anything about, or is it worth my money to, you know, potentially go there and spend money on drinks? Well boy, those get expensive too, and whatever else. And oh, it'll be crowded, or maybe it'll be hot, maybe it'll be cold. Like we're we're softening. I don't know how to put that any better. Uh, I had no trouble being hot and sweaty and miserable around strangers when I was a younger man, and the younger generation doesn't like to be uncomfortable. So when you were younger, when it seems more tolerable, when you think back to your day, you're like, oh yeah, I used to put myself through some stuff, huh? Kids today will not. And the college kids of today, more specifically, the youngest adults that we're experiencing in the world, especially like out and about at bars where they should be the ones that are out there mixing it up. I mean, statistics are showing that they're drinking far less. It's never been safer for them to go out and get drunk, quite honestly, because there's always a safe ride on the way home. Like they can always just hit a button and have an Uber or a Lyft, come pick them up wherever they are. They could always get a safe ride home. We didn't have that option. I was in the seventh ward in a dark corner at a payphone, and I'd call United Cab and say, hey, I'm at this street and I'm mispronouncing it because I'm not from here, you know. And they're like, all right, it'll be 15 minutes. If it's not there, just call back. It's like I don't have any more money to call you back. This is this is it. I used my last quarter, you know? Um, so it, you know, again, only to further that point is um the youngest adults of today don't have any conscious memories before smartphones. Does that make sense? Yeah. Like, I'm not trying to get into some huge philosophical or philosophical, sociological whatever, but there is something in our psychology as a society that has made had a major schism in regards to how we enjoy entertainment and music specifically, which is something that is to be enjoyed as art, which is something for generations and generations, has been enjoyed face to face in a crowd of people, like you know, just as a communal experience. And we don't do that anymore. We flip through it, thumb past it on our phone in three seconds. If you don't have my attention, next, next, next the idea of a young person buying an album and sitting on the floor in front of their record player or CD player reading every word of the liner notes and all of these things, these are almost lost experiences for the young adults of today. So, as much as people want to complain about kids, they're doing exactly what we trained them to do. Does that make sense? It does. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 16:38

Uh I'm kind of curious. So, with all your time that you've been here at Tipatinas, from working the door to your current uh position as general manager. So, is it your observation uh that there are fewer people coming to Tipotinas over the last 20-something years?

SPEAKER_01: 16:58

Not necessarily. I think just the way that we interact with one another, and especially in regards to live music, it's it's just kind of changing. Like there are certain bands, the older audiences, they they still have the same type of experiences they were before, for the most part. Um but even for those of us who've led very fulfilling lives before we had smartphones, when's the last time you went to a restaurant and didn't look at the menu before you decided to go there? Like, when's the last time you would have bought a ticket for a concert without knowing anything about the band? Like we're more conscious about how we spend our money because we're smarter, I guess, as people, but also, you know, it's it's harder to make a living. You know, it's it's the the cost of living is is gotten so absurd for most people that the idea of spending 20 bucks on a ticket, 25 or more dollars on a ticket, it may be like 20, 30, 40 dollars on drinks is crazy. Um not crazy, just like it's it's more of a reach for us now. And when I first started working here, you could live very comfortably in an apartment in New Orleans with one or two part-time jobs. And when I say very comfortably, like you could live in a place, you know, like you could have maybe you have a roommate, but you could rent a shotgun house uptown for like 600 bucks. And as long as you worked one part-time, you worked 20, 25 hours a week, your rent would be covered. And if you had two part-time jobs, yeah, I can go get drunk now, too. You know, whatever. Like you could you could live all right, you know, you could get a French Rump Poe boy for$399 almost anywhere, you know?

SPEAKER_02: 18:40

Yeah, nowadays it's quadruple the cost. Exactly. Uh and well, that's that's going down a radio. I know, man. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01: 18:47

I know I'm all over the place. I people ask me a lot of similar questions, so I have a lot of weird answers for it sometimes.

SPEAKER_02: 18:54

So you yourself, when you hear the word tipitinas, what do you imagine? And once you have that in your mind, what is it you then try to extrapolate to bring people to tipitinas?

SPEAKER_01: 19:11

Um, literally, it is almost just the physical building, is is what is in my head. Not even not so much like an idea, but almost the building and a blur of all the snapshots of all the thousands of different performances that I've seen here. Um and I kind of want that for everybody else. Uh we, you know, I can I can complain about all the things that I was just saying about this or that or the problem with this or what's different about that, but um the people that love Tipatinas all have some sort of uh life-changing experience almost with music and often have had one of those in here, if not multiple. And uh I am lucky that I get to meet a lot of people that that kind of hit me with their hard feelings, or not hard feelings, their good feelings about that sort of thing. And I'm uh I'm I I get real cynical about a lot of stuff all the time. I I think uh, you know, I've I've been here long enough and seen enough good and enough bad that people forget that uh for as many cool bands that we've had, we've had plenty of not cool bands come through here that just should have been pleasant experiences that weren't, or customers that are like, man, we we did so much to try and put on a show for you. That's kind of what I want. I want people to know that if they come to Tippatinas, you're gonna get at least a quality experience by the venue. I can't control how good the musicians are, how good their show is, but we can create the setting for them to have a good show. We can have one of the best sound systems in town, a very nice staff that is not all big goons and bouncers that are gonna be mean and rude to you as you come and go, and bartenders that are snippy or anything like that. And for the band's aspect, you know, that they don't have sound guys that, you know, just just some guy or girl next to the stage when they should be paying attention to the monitor console, but are just looking at their phone and ignoring you while you need them to help you or whatever. Like we are just trying to set the standard of being a good place. And it's funny because I think that we put on a good experience for people that come here as as good as they can expect. I've been around to other venues in town and I pat myself on the back thinking, oh man, we're doing it great. And I don't think that we're doing anything that is necessarily extraordinary. Like maybe it's just that we've raised our standard of of operation where it's like, no, no, this is just doing our job, not doing our job so great that we, you know, we're trying to do our best job every day. It's like, no, no, no, like sometimes literally just showing up and doing the basics of work is all it takes to be on the same page as everybody else. And whenever someone talks about like, oh, they're struggling doing this or doing that, and to me, it's like that's that's the job. That's that's not the hard part, that's just the part.

SPEAKER_02: 21:54

So at what point did you realize when you were working here at Tipitina's, yes, I I want to stay, I actually want to, you know, work for this company, so to say.

SPEAKER_01: 22:05

It's it's funny. Uh this this has popped up in a few different conversations I've had recently, too, just because I'm I've hit the the point where I have been working at Tipotina or been part of the Tipotina's family longer than I haven't in my lifetime. More than half of my life has been spent as a part of this business or this building. Um when I started here, you know, I was 21, I was a junior, senior in college, or whatever else, and all my friends who were graduating or going to be graduating were all talking about, oh, well, I want to go to law school or I want to do this or I want to go to grad school or I have a job lined up over here or I want to move back home and I have a buddy who does this and he can get me in, whatever. People had all these grand plans of what they were going to do when they graduate. And I never had any of that. I didn't have like a goal in college. I wanted to go to college, I wanted to have a fun college experience, and maybe I would find a career out of that, but I always kind of had a fallback. We have a family business back in Houston where I grew up, where it's like, well, I can just always go back and work at the warehouse. I've always got a job available, I can find a job in that I'm lucky that I'm never gonna be destitute. I can always go back home and just work. Uh but when people were asking me what my goal was, I remember thinking, because I'd only been here for months, maybe a year at the time, not even. Um I remember someone asking me what I wanted to do, and I said, Man, if I could just like work at Tipotinas forever and that pays my bills, I think that'd be cool. I just do that forever. And alas, here I am all these years later, where I've done that for a good portion of my adult life, where Tipotinas has been my only source of income. And uh I don't know, maybe I should have reached higher sometimes or whatever. I I have what I would arguably say might be amongst the coolest jobs in New Orleans. Um, but it ain't easy and it's not getting any easier. So sometimes there are days where I was like, I should have done something else, or wouldn't it be great if I just worked at the bank and I could clock in at you know 8.30 and punch out at 4.30, one of those types of things. That that's as as I'm getting older, I am getting more and more jealous of people who think that their job is boring, and I wish that I was smart enough to get one of those jobs most days.

SPEAKER_02: 24:22

Well, I I detect uh a bit of uh volatility in in this business.

SPEAKER_01: 24:28

Uh that one sorry, go ahead, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02: 24:31

So uh and you you may be referring to that. There's the stability of saying working for an entrenched institution, uh, but by the same token, I mean, you know, high reward only comes with high risk, right?

SPEAKER_01: 24:45

Yeah, but I mean, in in that same regard, like the risk is uh it it's I I don't own the place, so it's not my money necessarily, but I am you know this I am a part of this place, and this place is a part of me, you know. So uh I I like to think that I personally share in some of the successes that this place has had, and I I like to think that, you know, I've had something significant to do with that, but we've again, like I said, we've been lucky that we we have a good team here and we do a good job that we've created uh an element of expected success. Um you know, things can't just be up and up and up every year. Like it's it's it's damn near impossible to make more than you did last year every single year. And it becomes kind of the expectation for any business. No one wants to plan on, well, we know next year we'll be 8% lower than this year. It's like, no, no, no one's doing that. You're always saying, what are we doing, or how can we make it so we make more money next year? But if the work gets harder or something breaks and tens of thousands of dollars got to be dumped into something that's gotta be done, or hey, we gotta give people a dollar an hour raise or something like that, it just gets more expensive all the time. Um we we've what happens when just having a good night and being successful isn't enough because it's just expected. It's not special anymore, it's just normal mode of operation. So that whenever something does kind of you know, does kind of stink or it it you know, for lack of a better term, shits the bed a bit. Like it's like, oh man, it hurts more, but it's like, hey, we can't make money every time we open. And I I've talked to people, and I I just from what I see, and I see some of the acts that some of these places have, and I ask people what was it, what was it like over there? Were there a lot of people? And I know how much that band might normally cost if we had them, so I can only imagine what it would cost if it was over there, and there's no way they grossed enough in tickets to cover that. Like, whenever I see something like that, and uh businesses that are about our size that aren't open nearly as much, where I know like there's no way that they are you know monetarily competing with our type of income or anything like that. Uh I I I don't know. I I don't I don't even know how how is everyone else doing it and is it better or worse? I don't know. I started going off the rails a little bit there.

SPEAKER_02: 27:15

Well, in terms of the business, uh how do you see Tipotinas as a business first or a cultural trust that has to survive as a business?

SPEAKER_01: 27:24

Uh I mean, sadly, amongst many of the purists, I would have to say it is a business first. Um we we can't make decisions based purely on, well, that's just something that we should do necessarily. Does that make sense? Absolutely. We we I take that back because we do make decisions on things based on what you should and shouldn't do. Um like there are plenty of people or things that we do that I know will not make money, just that I know that if it's gonna happen, it needs to happen. Like there are things there are, you know, even bands that I really like that are very much something like someone who we have a good history with, or even something that, like, hey, they used to play here and then they didn't like playing here for whatever reason from however long ago, and I want them back here. Like, I want that show or I want that thing, or a musician just recently we did an event last week for a local guy named Dave Jordan, real swell guy, uh good musician. I mean, he's by no means famous or anything like that, but locally he's very well known amongst musicians and very beloved. He's been a professional musician like over 30 years in this town, and he suffered a stroke last month. Um and he's doing well, he can talk, um, and he can even sing and he gets around okay, but he's a guitar player, and his his right hand just isn't working as good. And according to him, he's like, Man, I feel like I'm back in high school that first year learning how to play guitar again. So he's got a long stretch of recovery ahead of him. Um and uh we we helped host the benefit for him. We gave him all the ticket revenue and we donated whatever to help raise money for him, and we were able to raise a lot of money for him, and I'm I'm glad we could help him. Um I didn't do it because I thought, oh man, but we'll crush at the bar because people will come out. It's like we were able to make a little bit of money, but we made him a lot of money. Um so it doesn't always look good on paper that it's like, how can we paid out you know thousands and thousands of thousands of dollars for us to maybe make a couple thousand dollars? Um we did it because it felt right, uh, because it's part of our pedigree. Or, you know, someone who has been a good musician to us and done us a lot of favors and played for low money on last late notice and whatever else, and has happily helped and you know stepped in whenever another musician needed help, he played their benefit for free, you know, and we got other people to help out, and you know, it's that's that's part of it. But I do have to say this is it it wouldn't exist if it didn't make money. So we we are we have to be a business first. And there are plenty of people that are the legends of New Orleans and and so on, or just whoever that is very much worthy of much more success than they have achieved, sadly enough. And there are times we're gonna shrug my shoulders and say, I'm sorry, we just can't do it. You know.

SPEAKER_02: 30:13

When you took on the the role as uh general manager, was it at that moment, or did it come afterwards that you had that sort of eureka moment? Holy shit, I'm the general manager of Tipatinas, and this isn't just some club. I mean, this this is a cultural icon for the city.

SPEAKER_01: 30:34

Well, I mean, I I had that moment early on working here. Um I I had been here for for lots and lots of shows um before I had ever started working here. And when I first started working on the door staff, I was working at least once a week, then twice a week, and then pretty regularly, at least a couple nights a week for a little while there. Um so it didn't take long till I had finally seen enough of Tipatinas beyond just the bands that I wanted to see. I mean, when you go to a venue, or at least for me, when I was going to shows here, it was stuff that I wanted to check out. But there was plenty of stuff happening on the calendar that I had no interest in. It was like, oh, why would I go see that? I don't care for that type of music or whatever else. But it's when you start working all the shows for all the stuff that you have no interest in whatsoever, where you start to really gain a bigger respect for, oh, this isn't music, this isn't a venue for one type of music fan. This is for everybody. Um, you know, when it's it's funny when we have a folk artist and then a funk artist, and then something blues, and then something metal, and then something hip-hop, and then Cajun music, and then this. It's like all within you know a week or two of each other, and we see every type of musician, or uh not just musician, but music fan that'll come out. Uh so I kind of got that early on. But I was a manager here for six years before I became the general manager. So it wasn't lost on me at any point in time, I think, after I became manager. When I first became manager, I remember thinking, oh, I have no business being a manager here, they're gonna fire me any day. Like the the random circumstances that have occurred for me to end up sitting here with you as general manager all these years later would have been impossible to predict, and aside from impossible to predict, but entirely improbable and unlikely to happen. So it's it's uh it's kind of a weird butterfly effect of of how it has come to be, I guess.

SPEAKER_02: 32:33

What what do you think from your perspective, you did right that that landed you into this role?

SPEAKER_01: 32:39

Um I don't know. I uh I always showed up on time. Uh I I I don't steal. Uh there's there's just all the different personality traits I think that are really it's not even so much things that you do, it's just the person you are, if that makes sense. Um I I've always been good about at least keeping my own reputation good and keeping my nose clean in regards to not lying and not thieving, you know. I I don't I I gotta live with myself at the end of the day. So there's, you know, it's funny that there's like a stereotype of skeezy bar managers that has existed in popular culture for decades and decades, TV, movies, whatever else. Um, you know, you hear musicians back in the day like having it out with managers at venues and clubs and this and that. I'm like, who are these people that get to work at this bar and get to treat musicians this way? Like, why would that ever be a thing? And why would anyone ever go back there for that matter? But um, you know, I I had been around here for a little while, and I actually part of it was also that I used to work in radio when I was working here part-time. I was also working part-time in radio, and then I ended up working full-time for uh a morning show on the alternative station in town. And um I I just kind of had to build up my reputation as being a very like D-level low celebrity in town, a not celebrity celebrity, like someone who knew people who were relatively well known, but I was technically a member of the media. Um, so I had to just kind of behave in that regard. Like, oh well, I you know, people can tune in and listen to my radio show that I'm that I'm on, and I don't want to make them look stupid because I'm stupid, and I did plenty of stupid things, you know, but um it really became um just keeping my own name good. So that means not ripping people off, being a decent business manager operator. And when I was in college, I took uh classes, I was a business minor, and I remember thinking that all this stuff that they were teaching us about management and management communications and everything else is like this is common sense stuff. Why are we sitting in a classroom going over this? Like it's very golden rule, treat people how you want to be treated, type of stuff. Almost every step of it kind of goes back to that in some regard.

SPEAKER_02: 35:04

Well, I once had an instructor say common sense is not so common.

SPEAKER_01: 35:08

Well, it turns out it's not, and I don't have the patience for people who can't figure it out. I can't they wouldn't they wouldn't last long in a job like this, I reckon.

SPEAKER_02: 35:17

Um tell us what it's like leading uh your your team in such a high-energy, late night, high-pressure type of environment.

SPEAKER_01: 35:25

It is terrible all the time. That's not true, but um just the mere fact that you have potentially hundreds of strangers that are coming to your office for lack of a better term, that you know, you can't predict what type of people they are, and we're giving them drinks too. So we're we're we're allowing strangers to come into our home and get drunk. Like it's there's nothing comforting or reliable about that on a daily basis. There's like daily fear, a daily struggle and daily anxiety. And um we, you know, I do put it on the whole team. It's not even me. Like, I try and just be a good like lead by example. Like the idea of even the basic stuff. Like, I would never ask an employee to do something that I wouldn't be willing to do. You know, I have been elbow deep in the toilets and uh have to put myself in potential physical danger because of a rowdy customer who might be attacking another customer. Like, I can't feel comfortable that some you know college kid making like 17 bucks an hour might think that their safety is on the line because they work technically as security at a bar. It's like this is Tipotinas, this ain't a rough bar. When I first started here, it was a little bit of a rough bar because we had well, maybe this is it. We had a manager that was a little rougher around the edges that would drink pretty regularly or occasional drug use and things like that. So that started becoming acceptable for people while they were not after they were working, but while they were working, you know, like there is a cascading effect if people treat their job like a party, then it gets real wild westy every once in a while. And there used to be fights between staff and customers, not routinely, but at the very least, like it was we we had a lot of dudes that were pretty like you know, short-fused, that wouldn't be willing to talk to someone uh to try and just calm someone down. And I've always been a big dude, so I I'm real lucky that I have a physical presence that that often like subdues a lot of situations just because and I don't know if you know you know you're calling me Brian. Most people call me Tank. Like my nickname is Tank. Okay. So whenever someone's like, I want to speak to the manager because of blah blah blah, it's like cool, tank, get over here, and then I start lumbering down the sidewalk towards this problem, and the problem changes real quick. Like when they're they're yelling at a 23-year-old grad student girl who's just checking IDs twice a week to make a little extra scratch herself, like she's not there to get into it physically with anyone, you know. Um I don't I don't like the idea of anyone else uh having to. Yeah, I think that's it. Literally just like trying to lead by example and not being afraid of doing the uncomfortable or awkward thing. And there's plenty of times when I have a drunk, rowdy, or angry customer yelling in my face and insulting me or insulting them where I just have to like, yep, I'm just gonna take it. Like, it's it's part of it. So, what's it like leading a team like that? Like, it's it's very terrible because you gotta swallow your pride a lot. It's very humbling all the time. Um, customer service is still customers, and the customers think that they're always right, but the customers are really annoying, so there's no other way to bounce around that. Like, this job would be so much better if it wasn't for all the customers.

SPEAKER_02: 39:00

Well, with two girls that uh have worked in the service industry and hearing some of their stories, yeah, the the customers can be annoying at times.

SPEAKER_01: 39:07

Yeah, yeah. They're not representative of the whole, but no, but you're not gonna remember like 99% of the people that come through here are awesome, but there's always gonna be one out of a hundred that is just even like for a packed sold-out show, and the place is packed to the gills, and there's a great band that everyone loves. There's just someone who's gonna have the worst time ever and act like everyone else is ruining it for them. It's like ever there's hundreds and hundreds of people are here having a blast with great smots. How are you the only person that is having a bad time? You know, there's always somebody.

SPEAKER_02: 39:41

Are you are you an asshole by nature, or do you just choose to be one of those?

SPEAKER_01: 39:45

I'm an asshole. I like I know how big of an asshole I am. And like the fact that, like, I don't know. I don't know. I again, I'm I'm I'm cynical. I people are the worst, man. That's that's what happens sometimes.

SPEAKER_02: 40:00

Despite you being a self-admitted uh cynic, do you find that in order for your team here to be successful, for Tipotinas uh to move forward, um you have to give your staff trust?

SPEAKER_01: 40:14

Absolutely. Um, but it doesn't take much because there's something magical, there's there's that little grigree on the walls, or something. There's something about this place that is contagious. Uh I I still, after all these years, I haven't figured it out myself. Um and that's part of the giving them trust is very much like almost not even it's almost as if this building vets people for us. Like it's not a regular job. It is a music venue, it's a bar, it's it's a lot of different things. Um, but if you're not cool, for lack of a better term, you're probably not gonna want to work here very long, and we might not want you to worry. Like, we've thought plenty of people are oh, this is this will be perfect. This seems like a good good guy, good girl, good whoever. Like, but after a while, it's like, you know what, I don't think that you're you're right for this place. Like, you don't have the right temperament. You gotta be nice, you gotta be willing to be extremely bored sometimes because you don't like the music or whatever else. Like I said, like Tipatinas is cool to everyone because they have a cool experience there. It's like, oh, that's the kind of place I would work. It's like, we'll see. Like, if you're here for seven hours for some boring stuff that you are not into, like, you might think it's less cool after a while. So there's an element of that as well.

SPEAKER_02: 41:34

What do you find is important in terms of your engagement with the bands that come to Tipotinas?

SPEAKER_01: 41:40

Me personally? Well, personally, no. Well, I mean, personally, I uh it's funny. When I when I first became a manager in 2010, I was assistant manager for a brief while before that. But when I became the venue manager in 2010, I uh I took it real seriously. Um because I had I was on unemployment for a brief time after that when I was getting first got laid off from radio. The different story that I'm not gonna get into. It'll take forever to explain that. But I I was very much like excited to be like, oh, this is a place I love. I have a management role here. Like I think that I can really offer this place something, and I I hope that uh I can help shape it to the place that I love in the way that I've loved it. Um so yeah, I don't know. I I already lost myself in exactly what your question was.

SPEAKER_02: 42:29

It was, you know, what do you find is important uh in terms of your engagement with the music?

SPEAKER_01: 42:32

Oh, the engagement with the bands and stuff, that's right. Oh, so what I was gonna say was I thought it was important that I should personally be communicating with the musicians on a nightly basis. Like, hey, I'm Brian, I'm the man, or I'm Tank, I'm the manager, uh, I'm gonna be settling with the end. Tell me whatever you need, and I would bounce into the green room, whatever else. And then sometimes it was like, oh, hey, that's great to meet you. And then other times, depending on who the musician was, how old they were, they were kind of like, Yeah, I don't need to know you. Like, get out of my green room, like we're trying to get ready for the show, type of thing. So there's an element of that too. Um, and plenty of people were great to me and very nice to me, and I've I've made many musician friends, but as the years have gone on, I've almost like separated myself from like you have one or two not pleasant experiences with a musician or band that you were really excited for. You're like, oh, those guys aren't nearly as cool as I thought they were gonna be, or they were kind of standoffish, or they were complaining because we didn't have Gatorade Zero and just regular Gatorade or whatever it was, just something that is so arbitrary and small and like, oh, is that the type of person you are? Like you see them talk down to like one of our techs or something like that, and be like, they're here to help you, man. Don't don't be rude. Uh, I have seen enough be unpleasant that I rarely meet musicians anymore. I I have a whole team of people between me and them more often than not. So I uh and not that I'm I'm actively avoiding it, but like I don't make a point to like try and bounce up to the I try and stay out of the green room during a show. Like I don't I don't want to mess with their their vibes or anything whatsoever. Like happy to to say hello, meet them, and you know, give them a t-shirt or whatever it is they want that they can help, I'm happy to do. Um, but less and less am I trying to befriend musicians when I thought that would be the coolest part. It's not as cool as I used to think it was.

SPEAKER_02: 44:31

What have you learned from your own team?

SPEAKER_01: 44:35

Uh a lot, actually, I think, at least um aside from like physical, tangible, tangible things on how to do stuff, but uh at least learned about myself is that I'm not good at uh giving or receiving compliments more often than not. Uh I certainly don't like receiving them. Whenever people try and praise me, it does upset me a little bit. Um I don't know why that is. Because I have very loving parents that were that were quite nice quite often. Um, but it's just not the way that I feel like I'm wired. And when people do it again, like that that expectation of success that I was talking about earlier, like, you know, I I don't do my job, and I don't think other people should do their job to receive praise. You do your job because it's your job, you know, like it's it's expected, and I don't do a good job of congratulating people on their successes, I guess, for especially the people that work here, because it's like, alright, that's cool. Next, like that's in the past. That was yesterday's news. Like, that's old shit, man. Get over it. Like, we gotta get to the new stuff. Like, like there, there is an element of, yeah, but, yeah, but, yeah, but. Um, uh, and quite honestly, if I if I'm being perfectly honest, sometimes I don't feel like congratulating them because it's like, great, you finally did what you were supposed to do. You know, like there is an element of that as well. Um just because I am an asshole, I guess. And I but also there's an element of this that I I constantly feel all the time because I I humble myself with it, is we're all very replaceable. Um, it's not gonna be easy, but I could find probably plenty of people that could replace me, replace any there's only one or two people that I can honestly say would be like tragic to try and replace. Um and even just amongst all those people that I mentioned earlier, that would all be very tragic to have to replace all of them. But it's possible. You know, there are plenty of people that want to work at Tipotinas, and I get resumes all the time from people that want to work at Tipotinas, but I don't need them to work at Tipatinas because I already have my ideal team in place. There's no one the only person who's been here for like the only full-time employee I have that hasn't been here for many, many years is my merch coordinator because we only recently made that a full-time position two years ago. After me begging our owners to do it for the past six, they finally allowed us to just bring it on and keep it all in-house. And our production manager, only because we have, you know, production managers every couple of years. We you know, if if you work in the production world, you're always waiting for that next better job in production. So we're we're I hate to be like the the stepping stone of production people, but they all go on to something else eventually. That's the nature of it.

SPEAKER_02: 47:27

Speaking a bit to the business side, um let's pull back the curtain a little bit and try to share from your perspective, obviously, uh, for the audience, the economic realities of an independent venue like Tippetina's. It's daunting.

SPEAKER_01: 47:46

Is there anything specific or well?

SPEAKER_02: 47:48

I mean, let's uh the basics. I mean, what what are things that people perhaps uh are overlooking? I mean, health insurance is a big thing nowadays.

SPEAKER_01: 47:55

Yeah, I I wish that we could offer health insurance to everybody. Um it is not fiscally viable in any regard. Um there's only five of us on our health plan, and since it's such a small group, that means that it's not a good plan. It's it's it's a little pricey. Um again, yeah. Anything that I complain about, I have no business complaining about because we have it so much better than so many people. Um but uh I mean as far as health insurance goes, that's a a literal crisis that is affecting the entire country terribly. I I wouldn't even know where to begin to talk about that. But the the general just business, and I mean, aside from the cost of goods, you know, paper towels and toilet paper cups, straws, napkins, beer, liquor, cold drinks, like all of the things, the tangible things that we actually sell and use are all getting more expensive. The clothes, the merchandise that we sell is getting more expensive. Um the expectation of you know raising wages every year or so and compensating our employees so they do want to stick around and feel like they're being compensated for their work is getting more expensive. Insurance costs are bananas, just literal insurance on the building and such. Um permits add up. People don't realize how many thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars we spend every year on PROs that pays rights organizations, like ASCAT, BMI, CSAC, like these are things that people aren't even thinking about. Like, we gotta cut a check for thousands and thousands of dollars every quarter to multiple companies just because we have live music happening here. Um you know, uh on a near I'd say twice a month I gotta call a plumber to fix something that some drunk customer did in the bathroom. You know, like there is money literally getting dumped down the drain almost on a constant basis just to stick around. Like, I don't even know how much we I I mean I can look it up, I don't know offhand, like how many thousands of dollars, I guess probably into the ten plus thousand dollar range of even like Facebook ads and stuff like the money that goes into this place, the the thousands of dollars we spend on posters that go up around the business just to promote other stuff that's coming up, um everything like batteries. If I went through like all of the things that we order just from our regular vendors and the random things that we just like sadly have to buy from Amazon on a like, oh we gotta replace this. Where are we gonna find what's just order on Amazon? It'll be here in 48 hours. Like, that's a that's a disaster that we are constantly doing. You know, a a drummer gets a little overzealous with the house kitten, breaks our hi-hat, and it's like awesome, those aren't cheap, you know? Like it's it's uh it's bizarre um the literal cost of something this large that I don't think people it's not a dive bar where everything can just be shitty all the time. Like you gotta spend money to keep it uh respectable. I mean, even just paying someone to come in here to the floors and bathrooms every morning after a show that's thousands of dollars every month, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 51:14

Speaking locally uh and up to the state level, you know, for those that may be listening that uh have the power to influence you know ordinances or or state laws. Uh what do you what would you want uh government leaders to be aware of how a club like Tippetina's is impacted adversely uh by regulations?

SPEAKER_01: 51:39

Well, I mean regulations are in place for a reason. Um it's it's hard to almost speak on that. I almost wish that uh local, state, and national government, you know, federal government realized how important independent venues and or I mean even the non-independent venues, you know, your your House of Blueses and stuff, like how important that the live entertainment, or you know, what we've been calling the the nighttime economy, how great it is for your city and what it really can be for your city. And our office, or I'm sorry, our our our city government has an office of cultural economy, and I have some opinions on how they operate that, but inside of that office is three people that are the office of nighttime economy, and they seem to be the only ones who kind of get the impact that we can have on a community, so not even as much as restrictions that are put on us, because restrictions are you know, we don't serve food, so our health department visits are pretty basic. Like keeping a bar and an ice machine clean isn't that bad as opposed to people who have to store food and things that could actually get people really sick on a on a terrible basis. Like, you know, it's easier to for us to keep this place presentable and whatever else. Permits, they add up. Um, it's you know, our regular regular stuff that we just have to have. It's it's nothing that's crazy, in my opinion. I mean, I'd I'd like to not have to pay them. That'd be great. Just being a decent, respectable business that you know doesn't serve underage people and follows the rules and everything else. Like it'd be nice if we allow recognition for that. But I think almost finding a way for the city to encourage places like us that are sorry, I'm gonna jump off track a little bit because during COVID, the National Independent Venue Association was this group that was formed as its own lobbying group, and they were able to pass the Save Our Stages bill. And the Save Our Stages bill, I think, gave out like 12 or 13 billion dollars to thousands of independent venues. Um, and we got to receive one, you know, because we were in a business, we had proper paperwork and accounting, and we could prove that we were running a legitimate business so you could get money based off of what your 2019 income was. Um they had done a study that said that for every dollar spent at an independent venue equaled twelve dollars of economic impact into the surrounding areas. So to think that the the one to twelve ratio of dollars spent, like if for every dollar spent on a music venue in New Orleans equals twelve dollars of economic impact, why aren't we finding ways to lean into this a little bit more? Like, this is a town that was built on the nighttime economy, and more and more it's just becoming like every other city in the country. Um and there's nothing wrong with the other cities in the country, they're just not New Orleans. So all the things I was talking about earlier about like the mystery of going out and not really knowing what you're in for, like, you don't get to put genie back in the bottle. We don't get to go in reverse. We're not getting rid of smartphones anytime soon. We're not getting rid of we're we're not gonna, I don't think, change people's psychology of how they think on how they spend their money. But if we find a way for life to be easier for people and life to be affordable for people, we might start seeing that economic impact of this nighttime economy be a little bit stronger.

SPEAKER_02: 55:18

On that note, do you have any particular uh observations uh as to perhaps why in New Orleans a music industry, a la Nashville, has never really developed here?

SPEAKER_01: 55:32

Um a bunch of people have uh been trying to hypothesize and theorize on that. I don't know the answer. Um I do know that at least for Louisiana, not even as much, definitely New Orleans, but for Louisiana, this is, and I hate to just this is this is the cynical part. This is the dumbest fucking state ever. Like, I couldn't possibly imagine how stupid the people of Louisiana in general are for allowing ourselves to fall this low in the rankings of anything substantial on a near every year basis for who knows how long. Like, why are we at the bottom of everything that matters all the time? We have the best culture of any state in this whole country, and we are continually so dumb and backwards about everything. I'm never gonna understand it. And as far as why New Orleans can't have the same economy like around music as like in Nashville, literally because we're too stupid. Um, and that's not even so much uneducated, like the education is there, but people who want to run those businesses and are interested in those businesses are sick of banging their head against the wall making it work in New Orleans. I mean, we can't even figure out streets still, like we can't even figure out basic utilities. We can't we can't figure out how to have uh a government that doesn't feel corrupt, even if it's not, you know. Um so it's it's easy to be cynical about why would these businesses why ultimately what makes Nashville work isn't Nashville, it's the people going to Nashville and making it work. And there's a very insular society of New Orleans that doesn't always want outsiders coming in and changing it. Like there's a really bad attitude of like you're not from here, you don't get it. Like I'm not from here. So I've even though I've lived here more than half of my life, my wife grew up three blocks from where we live now. I still feel like the new I'm an outsider. Like, I don't feel like a local most days. Like, I'm not, because yes, someone who's from here, they'll they'll tell you that I ain't from here. So what what what does that mean? Like, why why why won't we allow people to come in and make things better? We think it's gonna make a change. Yeah, yeah, it might change. Well, guess what? It ain't working, it needs to change. Something's gotta change, something's gotta be done. Um I don't know what the answer is, but we have a great music department now at Loyola, and people graduate and find a job somewhere else and leave town because we just can't do it on our own. I don't know what the answer is. But I do know that New Orleans needs tourism, it needs immigrants, it needs people coming here. And I don't mean immigrants from other countries necessarily, yeah, yeah, from other countries for sure, but we need people to come here. We need citizens. The the population still hasn't rebounded totally from Katrina 20 years ago. We're still below those numbers.

SPEAKER_02: 58:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 58:35

So why are we surprised? Yeah, why are we surprised? You know, like it's all there on paper. I'm not coming up with some kind of concept that's new. Like, we don't allow, we have too much regulation on things besides this industry that I'm in, like even the housing economy and letting people build more homes and finding a way to make more homes and make them more affordable. And uh people need to be able to live here comfortably. This city was a better art city when it was affordable for artists to live in, and now artists can't live here. This house next door to us, literally like that the roof that you're seeing through that window right there. That's a that's a duplex. The guy that used to live on one side of it was one of the sound techs here for a while. And the house across the street, like it's all just shotguns and duplexes, nothing big and fancy, but like that was like five, six, seven hundred dollars in rent a month to have half a duplex to yourself. Like an artist can get by as a part-time, you know, uh cashier at a grocery store or something like that and play music on the side and still live comfortably. So we had artists that were moving here and innovators that were moving here that didn't have a whole lot of scratch, but you know, they they had the willing, the willingness to come here and hang out and just be part of it. Like it's it's not as easy and affordable to just come be a part of it, you know. Now just one. These crappy shotguns over here probably run you like$600,000 if you wanted to buy one.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:04

So do you find you have to work harder to bring uh live performances here?

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:10

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:11

Compared to 10 years ago?

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:14

Yeah, it seemed like there was a time when you know we just put it on the calendar and maybe people would show up. Like I was saying, some people think that that's just how it works, but there's I'm fairly positive there's more music venues and more stages in town than there ever has been in this city's past. Um and fewer people of all ages that are willing to go out. We've made such comfortable lives for ourselves at home and on the internet and with streaming and everything else that this isn't as reliable as a source of entertainment for people. And it used to be, and I I I don't know again, I don't know if we get to put the toothpaste back in the tube, man. Like, like it's it's just one of those things where how do we get people to want to come out? So we just we create the atmosphere that we want people to come here and know that at least if they come to Tipatina's, you know, they'll have a place to park along with the economics. We spend hundreds of dollars every month just to let people park at Rouse's. Like, we gotta pay them rent so we can let people go park there so there's safe parking when you come here. And I don't want to trash any place in the quarter, but like, man, it is a pain in the butt to go down to the French quarter and see some music and do anything. You know, parking will cost you who knows how much, or where you're gonna park, and how safe is it where you park. Well, at least it's lit, it's across the street. Like, crossing Choppatulas can be dangerous if you're not paying attention, but still it's it's right there. You got a place to park, and we have, you know, a good sound system and good lights and a good stage and a good history of musicians wanting to play here.

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:48

So I don't know if you've been able to track uh your guests that come here, uh but if you have been, have you been able to see changes in the percentages of how much of it is local audience via tourism?

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:07

Um it depends on the act and the weekend of the year almost, too. Um there's times, you know, Mardi Gras Jazz Fest where it seems like there's just a lot of tourists, but we are very lucky that um you know, we we get a lot of locals that come here too. I mean, it would be hard to say. We don't necessarily like, oh, we should have everyone like write down their zip code as they can walk in the door. I actually had someone recommend that to me. Like, oh, just put a kiosk right up again against the door so people just enter their zip code as soon as they walk in. Like, I get it, but I'm not doing that. It just seems invasive almost. Um, but I see people I know every night we open. Like it's rare that we open up and it's it's all strangers.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:47

Um Do you think you're getting less tourists than before?

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:51

Um, I will say that it is tourism is noticeably down this year. Um only because there are shows that we have done that are almost like heritage shows for us that we do every year, and it always does at least this in attendance or whatever else. And it's, you know, the same people locally that love those bands are coming out, but we're not getting all that extra. And I have seen uh I've read some articles and seen some of the studies put out by a couple of different organizations that have shown that our international tourism is down. I I saw something that said, we were talking about this at the meeting this morning, that I think this year international tourism in general for the whole United States is down about 15%. But it's even more a place like New Orleans because we always had so many international tourists coming here, because we have something in New Orleans that is unlike anything else in America. So when people from out of the country want to see the Gulf South, New Orleans is the city that they will choose, not necessarily Houston or Mobile or Tampa or Biloxi. New Orleans is the place in this part of the country that people want to see and visit. Um and even during a time like Jazz Fest back in the spring, I would meet so many people from all over the world. And this past year, very few international tourists that I met. Like, I just you know, that's just part of it. And even speaking with people who work at hotels or own Airbnbs, they're like, I've never had an open Airbnb for three straight weeks ever, and they live in a really interesting part of the bywater or something that's very hip for tourists right now. Um so people are noticing. I mean, hotel capacities are down. It's it's verifiable, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 1:04:36

Speaking of your international audience, uh, what about bands? How many of the bands tend to be from outside the US?

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:43

Uh outside of the US, not as many. Um, I'd say a handful. There's a couple of Canadian bands that we've had the past couple of months. Um yeah, not a lot. It's it is mostly U.S. bands. We have plenty of international musicians that are like part-time residents in town uh or that are you know touring with bands that they might have, some some international folks that are in their bands. But as far as international, like the band is from wherever, um, I don't know. It's not like we have like a quota we're trying to hit. I think this year, probably like seven or eight, not like a lot, but some, like once a month, maybe. I don't know, something like that. We're not we're not shying away from it. If we think it's gonna sell tickets, we'll give it a shot, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 1:05:26

Deviating slightly, so as a general manager for Tipatinas, is there an association of like general managers of nightclubs across the the US that one belongs to, or particular trade shows you can go to to discover, you know, what what are challenges for others or how they're innovating to bring those lessons back here?

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:48

I mean, there's probably something like that, but I wouldn't join that group.

SPEAKER_02: 1:05:53

Or is it or do you just be sort of an informal network of other general managers?

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:58

There, I would say it's more of an informal thing. Um, I I know a lot of other people who are venue operators in New Orleans, so we're I'm I'm pretty hip to what's going on at least locally. Um But uh that being said, we are musician-owned. The band Galactic Owns Tipatinas, and they're still a touring band. They probably still do 50, 60 dates on the road a year or something like that. So they are actually our best scouts on what's going on because they play the Tipatinas-sized rooms all over the country and sometimes internationally. So they are the ones who see things and almost bring their out, you know what they're doing over this place in Phoenix, you gotta check this out, or whatever. Like even something as simple as I don't know if you saw inside that other green room on the wall, there's a couple little plastic things with postcards in it and pens and a little mailbox there. And they saw another venue that had like their own postcards, which is hey, fill out a postcard, we'll mail it for you. So we every Monday, Mindy comes in and opens up the mailbox and goes down and slaps some stamps on it and drops them in the mail. It was like, oh dude, that's it's so small and almost unworthy of anyone's time to be like, well, it's cute. And they thought it was cute, it was a cute thing to do in the green room, so they did it. You know, like there are little things like that, or even, you know, it's for how people are generally operating, um, it's unreliable. Like, I know everyone thinks that what they have is special, and you can't, you know, we would never change it because of our identity, blah, blah, blah. I think the same thing for us. Um, what works here or works somewhere else might not work here. I had someone uh recently tell me that the Fox Theater, or I think it was the Fox Theater in Boulder, uh, their number one seller at the bar is Jell O Shots. And it was like, so what do you think? We should start carrying Jell O Shots, right? And like my heart hurt. I was like, I never thought I would be, and I'm very much a nothing is sacred type of guy, but um I I loathe to think that I might be having the bartenders making jello shots before their shifts. Because this is what sells, not your cocktails, stupid. Make your jello shots, sell your jello shots. Five apiece, five for twenty, you know, or something like that. You know, that's what they were doing at this bar.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:20

Uh and then they discover a week later, oh, that bar in Colorado stopped doing it. It was, it wasn't profitable.

SPEAKER_01: 1:08:26

No, it was definitely profitable. They were they're making so much money off of it that I look like the jerk for saying, I don't want to do that. And we're like, oh yeah, turn the money down. Way to go stupid. Like it's like, all right, I'll tell you what, why don't we get rid of the bars entirely? We'll just put in vending machines so we don't pay bartenders. We just pay one person to stock a bunch of machines and it's card only. You don't even have to worry about counting cash, and we'll have one machine that is beer, and one that is the THC seltzer's and one that's just sodas and water, and one that is jello shots or whatever else. So, like, we'll save a lot of money doing that. Why don't we just do that? You know?

SPEAKER_02: 1:09:03

So uh, might be an idea for the next team meeting.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:07

It's it's come up whenever they say something. It's like we should just get rid of the bars, it'll save space and on staffing, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 1:09:14

Tell us a little bit about uh Galactic's role. I mean, this relationship, a a musical band that owns Tipotinas, but they're on the road.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:22

Well, they're not like on the road all the time. They're they've they're they're lucky that they've graduated and they're at a place of success in their career, that they're not slugging it out for for weeks at a time every week. They they have uh, you know, they're all in their 50s now, so hard touring is is not as uh aside from touring, you know, I'm sure talking to other guests you've had in the past that touring is not nearly as profitable as it used to be for a lot of bands. It's getting very expensive. So they also take very careful look at when and where to travel and for how long for sure. But as far as their role, um overall, it's it's hard to say anything negative just because of the giant, you know, paradigm shift that we've taken from the previous ownership to this ownership. Um they're all cool guys and they all genuinely love Tipatinas and they love music. That's kind of the most important thing, that they love this place. The previous owner, I don't know that he loved it so much as he seemed burdened by it all the time. Um he just didn't, you know, I don't think there was anything about it that he truly loved. But I mean he's dead now, so we can't really ask him. Um the uh as far as Galactic goes, though, uh there's you know, they all have their own ways that they like to stay involved. Um, some more than others. There's a couple that stay very active involved and and want to hear about anything everything. Like they will it anything you say, like, hey, we need to talk about this, they're happy to be like, all right, well, let's let's get into it. What do you need to know? Or what do we need to do? And others that are like, oh, I don't know, maybe you should talk to so-and-so about that. That's not really my whatever. Um, so they've all taken their own individual interests in different aspects of this business, which is good and bad. Um, and on the good side, they don't micromanage, you know, like they don't want to micromanage. We were very lucky in regards to myself and you know, the the the you know, Mary and Nick and Tander, like we were all in our positions before they they came on, and we were lucky that they didn't know how to run a club and they needed us very badly to do it. And uh even these what six, seven years later, uh they still need us to do it. Uh, because I don't think that I think after all this time, they realized the amount of time that it really takes to put in, and they have their other lives and stuff too. Like they operate their own studio and they tour and they they got a lot going on too. One of them has a fishing charter tour thing that he does. You know, it's uh they got stuff, you know. And Stanton, the drummer, he he plays uh basically seven nights a week somewhere, if he's on the road or not. He will travel with other bands when Galactic is not on the road, you know. He's he's psychotic about playing drums and has his own residences at like the Bayou Bar at the Poncer Train Hotel or Snug Harper or the Maple Leaf, you know. He's he's avid. Um they they all have their their own aspects of ownership, or at least what they find to be important and what they will focus on.

SPEAKER_02: 1:12:21

Looking down the road here, what do you see are going to be some of the most pressing challenges for Tipatinas and for music venues in general?

SPEAKER_01: 1:12:33

Um I think I mean, I don't know. It's just rising costs make people very unsettled. Um I noticed that people spend more excuse me. Uh people absolutely spend more money when markets are not in flux, if that makes sense. And I'm not trying to make some sort of grand political statement uh or anything like that. But when money markets are up and down and all over the place, spending gets tightened. We are we're a luxury business. Like it's it is in in most regards just a bar that hosts music. But we're not, you know, required by by any real stretch of of whatever. It's we are in a luxury business. Like you are coming here to be entertained, you know, that sitting on the couch and watching Netflix ain't enough, and you want to go see music. Like, this is one of the best places in the country, in theory, that you'll be able to do that. So the biggest hamstring or the biggest whatever uh against us would be that, like, you know, keeping people interested in spending their money on live music and and cocktails and whatever else. It's uh and like I said before, for further down the road, I hope young people get more interested in it because they they seem less interested. And we do plenty of shows that seem like they have a younger audience that appeals, but even whatever we've we've had like fraternities and sororities like rent us out to do a private party, and you know, maybe they just get a DJ, and that's fine if you you don't want to pay for a band and you just want it to be a DJ, but even still, you know, these young adults are just standing around looking at their phones, they're taking pictures of themselves and then just looking at their phones.

SPEAKER_02: 1:14:20

Do you find people are dancing less?

SPEAKER_01: 1:14:22

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:14:23

Oh man, that's a shame.

SPEAKER_01: 1:14:25

Younger people, like it feels like it. It feels like it. There's and you know, I I I'm I'm I'm a full generation and a half or two removed from college kids, you know. Like, I am old enough to be their parents. I'm over 20 years older than them. So uh it's crazy. When I was their age, my whole goal was trying to get drunk and hook up with girls, man. Like going to see music was a great opportunity for that. And now it's not the same because they're not as engaged with the people around them and what's happening on the stage. They're engaged with the people standing in their tight little circle, but they're all kind of looking at their phones. They're just seeing what else is happening, or what is someone at so-and-so doing? Like, they're not interested in enjoying the show, they're interested in taking a picture of themselves at the show and proving that they were doing a thing. I was at a thing. Look at me. Me and my friends are at a thing. Smile, hold our cocktails, our high noons in the air and spill it on the ground and whatever, you know. Like, it's it's I don't know. I don't know. The cynical part's coming out. Maybe you might but they're also not mixing it up. Oh, sorry, that's what I was gonna say. Like, I see these interpersonal relationships. Like, I was a communication student, I did a lot of interpersonal communication and thesis and things along those natures. Um I am literally not seeing these people physically interact the way that people used to interact when I was their age. Like physically, how they stand, how they walk, how they talk, how they engage, how they dance, how they everything. It is literally changing.

SPEAKER_02: 1:15:56

So but on that note, do you also pick up on, at least it's my observation, I I've seen this phenomenon start to exist among people our own age. No? Yeah, it is. They're getting so focused into their phones. Uh it's like, hey, there's a whole world around us where we we don't need to get sucked into these devices uh like like uh uh you know younger folks are, and we're always criticizing them. Hey, you need to leave your phone.

SPEAKER_01: 1:16:26

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. We did this to them. They didn't do it to themselves, we did it to them. Like we created a simplified world of comfort, and that's exactly what they were raised with. So why would we be surprised? Like, I'm saying it as if it's bad, as if like, what are we gonna do about it? I don't know what to do about it. I'm just saying it's happening because it's exactly what we raised them to do. So we shouldn't be surprised by it. That's kind of why I'm saying, and sometimes when I say that, people go, oh yeah, I guess so. It's like, yeah, you guess so. What it's exactly what we did. Like, again, young adults that are in college now do not have conscious memory before smartphones. It's always been the entire world has been right here, and often it was shoved in their face before they even wanted it. So why wouldn't we be surprised that they're totally engaged and submersed in it?

SPEAKER_02: 1:17:16

So it'd probably be fair to say places like Tipatina's and now what is our digital world, they're important because the personal relationship.

SPEAKER_01: 1:17:28

I think so. Um the personal relationship with each other, community, and with music. Music isn't going away, it's changing. People, you know, again, for for years, a hundred years ago, people were saying, ah, jazz, that's not music. You know, the people that were listening to early classical music wouldn't conceive of jazz. Jazz was the devil's music, and so was the blues, and then rock and roll, and then disco, and then hip-hop, and whatever. It's genres change, music is music. Like, and even with the AI movement, which is a whole nother podcast that I'd be happy to do sometime if you ever want. People are saying that even more and more. It's just another tool that makes a different type of music. That's always going to be there. Um, but yeah, uh, it's it's yeah, I don't I don't even know where to go necessarily. It's it's um nothing Tippatinas isn't going anywhere, I would like to think. There's another venue in town called Preservation Hall. I don't know if you're familiar with Preservation Hall. Um they do a very unique thing, more unique than anything that we do, quite honestly. Uh, aside from the fact that they don't have a bar, they don't sell drinks, no, no alcohol, they don't let you even bring your drinks in. All right. There's like church pews and things like that. It's in a very dusty old room in the French quarter. The building is who knows how old. It's been there since the 60s. I don't know, 61, I think, is when it was first founded by Ben Jaffe's father. Um so the the thing about Preservation Hall is they do a very specific type of music there. They play jazz. Um and not to let the cat on the bag, cat out of the bag on me personally, uh, and don't ever repeat this, maybe even delete it. Jazz is boring and stupid. That's my personal opinion. I tell it to jazz musicians all the time, and I hate to downtrod it because we're the home of jazz, but quite honestly, if jazz is so great, why is it always struggling? But there's one place where it's not struggling, and that's Preservation Hall. They do like five shows a day, and they can only fit like a hundred people in the room, but they're full every show. Like we sell a lot of t-shirts and merchandise. They sell a lot of t-shirts and merchandise. That place is a small business that is thriving off doing something that no one else is doing because who else would ever bet on jazz? You know, especially old time jazz. Like they play old Dixieland and ragtime and whatever else. And they play modern stuff too. And during Jazz Fest, they'll do an interesting thing. Well, they'll have like one of the headliners from Jazz Fest come sit in with their house band, you know, like Robert Plant playing with. The guys in Press Hall, you know, like that's bananas. Ronnie Wood playing with the guys in Press. Like, who would have thought that would ever be a thing? But they pack up this little dusty room, and it looks exactly like it did 60 years ago, and they're playing the same type of music they were playing 60 years ago. Um, there is a niche for doing something that isn't a thing anymore. I I don't even know how to say the words right, quite honestly. And we do have a little bit of an element of that too. Like this place has been around the next month, it will be 49 years of Tipatina's first opening. And uh we we do hearken back to that older time.

SPEAKER_02: 1:20:41

Yeah, and then around the corner it'll be the 50th anniversary. You're looking at doing something special?

SPEAKER_01: 1:20:48

Yeah, yeah, we're gonna we're gonna do something special. Uh and not just one show. I we we want to make like a whole series of like all year for the whole 50th year. There's gonna be a whole marketing campaign of the 50th Mardi Gras, the 50th Jazz Fest, and the 50th, 4th of July, or whatever. Like it's it's gonna be a whole lot of number 50s uh in 2027, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_02: 1:21:12

If you're giving advice to anyone who wants to get into this industry, whether as a musician or work in a club like Tipatina's, what kind of what kind of guidance would you give them?

SPEAKER_01: 1:21:23

I mean, honestly, pick something else. But uh any guidance? Uh for anyone starting out, uh, it's it's tricky. I I meet young people all the time that are music students. Like, like I said, that like fresh out of the Loyalty Music Program, the one thing that people seem to forget when you're young and idealistic, uh, at least definitely in this in that this industry, um, people think that like, oh, you know what? I love studio stuff, I'm gonna be a music producer, or I like live events, I want to put on shows, I want to be a promoter. Whatever it is that you think that you're gonna do is not what you will be doing in 10 years, more than likely. It's it's it is damn impossible to have one career. You're like, I thought I was gonna be a radio man, I thought I was gonna produce morning radio shows the rest of my life, and I was 22, 23 when I started doing that. I was like, oh, that's my career forever. This will be great. Didn't last that long. Um but uh my real advice is take every job, like do everything. Like if so, if there's every opportunity, take it. Like again, people are scared about wasting their time and resources. I mean, when you're young, that's all you have to offer, you know? Like, you don't have experience, so you need to choose a job. Like, again, like just even working part-time here, like you're gonna meet someone eventually that you might hear about another job or another thing, or you might learn a thing, or learn something about yourself that you didn't know you had. So I would do everything that you can as far as like don't pass up any work opportunities, especially people that are career-oriented. Um, if you're a musician, don't pass up any opportunity to meet a musician or or jam with anybody. You know, play every bad gig that you can, you know, learn from all of those things. Uh that's that's it. So just kind of a say yes attitude when you're young.

SPEAKER_02: 1:23:21

Do you find there's um opportunity for innovation as a general manager? Just maybe difficult to implement?

SPEAKER_01: 1:23:29

Yeah, I mean, again, there's there's plenty of things. Uh I I think if it was someone else besides me, yes. Um I and I I know that sounds real stupid. Um there's a new type of software that comes out every week that someone pitches me on. I get an email or a phone call from someone who's got the best ticketing platform, the best marketing platform, the best this, the best inventory this. Everyone's got something that I think is so fucking great. Um And if I was new and starting out and didn't know any better, then I'd probably very much be like, we gotta innovate. This is the way of the future. Um there was someone who took me out to a dinner during the the there was a conference in town that I went to, and there was people there that were like bugging me to take me out to dinner. I was like, yeah, fine, take me out to dinner, that's fine. Um and we're at dinner and they're talking about this whole platform for marketing. I'm not gonna say the company or anything like that. And they were all really nice and really cool, and like they got it. Like, they're like, hey, we're salesmen, so this is part of our thing. Let us schmooze you. So um that's that's what I did. And I schmoozed them up. And they were telling me about like, oh, we have this thing. I mean, it can help you build your marketing plans and do this, and it does that, and does that. I was like, oh, that's magical. How does it just do that on its own? It's like, all right, well, you take all of your data, you enter it, and you like it's like we use this, and it's like, all right, so all of the data I've already collected, you want me to basically give to you to make your platform better for me, but ultimately you can kind of use that to make it better for everybody else. So I am crowdsourcing your data, or you're crowdsourcing it for me, and my experience at a place like Tipatina's, like a good with a real reputation in this industry of success and whatever else to make it better for me, but also make it better for you. And you want me to pay you to do this? And they're like, yeah, I was like, well, how like I have 15 years worth of worth of data from shit, like all of our, you know, the files of all the things we've done for at least 15 years. Like, how many months would that take me to enter all that into your platform? Like, well, we could have a team do it, and we could probably do it in less than two months. Like, so I'm just gonna give you all of my information to do this, or spend all you want me to spend all this time doing it, and then maybe it'll do my thinking for me, so then I can fire somebody and let your program that'll ultimately be sold to another company in a year, go on to something else, and so on and so on. They couldn't get it, and I was like, why would I do this? They're like, Well, what are you using now? Excel? I go, Yeah, I'm using Excel. Why? They're like, that's really data. They're trying to tell me why Excel is so stupid. I was like, they kind of nailed it 30 years ago, bro. I don't know what to tell you. Like, it is the most simple way to categorize numbers and data, and I can make it do an awful lot. I can even have it make charts for me if I want, just like yours can. You know, like you're not reinventing the wheel, you're just a salesman for another tech company, and in six months you're gonna be looking for another business to do the same thing for. Like, it's it's hard for me not to be cynical when I meet so many people that are so fucking smart and they're gonna change our world and whatever else is like. Cool, thanks, nice to meet you, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 1:26:56

Although I've only spent uh the past almost 90 minutes with you, uh I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you don't strike me, strike me really as cynical. You're just you're I think you're the true definition of pragmatic. And uh, you know, I mean uh it may come across as cynicism, but I think you're just a a true realist.

SPEAKER_01: 1:27:20

Uh it's because I'm around a lot of artsy people, maybe that's why.

SPEAKER_02: 1:27:23

Perhaps. Uh, but I also I I also uh detect there there's a romantic underneath uh the shell of self-processed cynicism there. Uh because you wouldn't be in this business if if you weren't perhaps say somewhat a of a romantic, right? Uh you believe in people, you you enjoy the music, uh and I mean Well, let me cut you off.

SPEAKER_01: 1:27:45

I don't believe in all the people and I only like some of the music.

SPEAKER_02: 1:27:50

Um as as we wrap this up, any parting thoughts you'd like to leave uh with the audience? Something that you would like them to know about Tipatinas or why they should come here?

SPEAKER_01: 1:27:59

Well, I mean, as far as Tipatinas goes, I I do still think it even when I'm not feeling good about this industry or or this place or my role or anything, whenever I'm down on everything, like at least I, you know, I rest easy knowing that I still believe that this is the best music venue in the country. Um I haven't been to that many, quite honestly. That that also surprises people how not well traveled I am amongst music businesses elsewhere. Um, because I need people that are, you know, they they've been to all these other legendary places all over the country, all over the world. And um, man, I think uh just Tipatinas is we're we're here just to do one thing, you know, put on uh a comfortable setting for people to come play music and people to come enjoy music. Um uh also we are standing room only. Stop asking for chairs just because you had knee surgery last year or whatever. Like, get an awful lot of complaints from people to that want to sit or they all want to know what time the show starts. And it's like, what do you what else you gotta do tonight? You know? Um I don't know. I I wish I wish people left more mystery to it sometimes and just kind of let the good time happen to them instead of forcing it upon themselves or their friends or whatever else. But um there was one thing I saw in your notes before that uh the one thing that not that I hope happens to everyone, but something that I think happens to people typically, at least when they walk through the front doors when we're open for for regular business for a show or something like that. There is something, and it happened to me when I first came here, and it happens to a lot of people. Um when you walk into Tipatinas, even if you've never been here before, it feels like you've been here before. Does that make any sense? Yeah, it does. Alright, okay. Um, I I do believe that there is there is some kind of magic in this building. I don't know what it is. Uh I I love to be all holy about it and say that we're on sacred ground and and stuff like that. Uh but I don't know what it is yet. I see even all these years later, I don't know what it is that makes this place special sometimes. Uh it wasn't decided in the cosmos or anything like that, it just became a part of this place. Uh maybe it was just the people who started it had a good idea and it managed to stay alive this whole time.

SPEAKER_02: 1:30:18

Well, Brian, thank you for your time and insights. Uh special shout out to the musicians and club personnel who keep the music alive in their respective cities. To our listeners, thank you for joining us on Brungart Law's Lanyat, where we provide a little extra perspective because the devil's always in the details. Join us again in our next episode. Invite others to follow along. Please give us your feedback via the link. Brian, again, gratitude.

SPEAKER_01: 1:30:41

Thank you. Sorry for talking so much, man.