March Badness Elite 8

Join Tim & Taber as they further discuss the route to the final four of Corruption in the 2026 March Badness of Corruption Tournament.  The battle continues in the conversation to determine the most corrupt politician out of the original 16 we started with.  Join in on the conversation and submit your votes in comments or on our social media @timntaber or on YouTube @thecorruption podcast.  Let us know who you think is the most corrupt out of the remaining politicians.  

Find us on Social Media @timntaber

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Nick surely exposed the leering center.

unknown 0:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:03

The learing center. These daycares were were claiming to feed like literally thousands of kids a day. And there's not a single kid in the daycare. I'm getting shaken down every direction by neighbors over here eating cats, and I can't afford drinking water. Ilan Omar? Is it is Ilon Omar is the one with the big thing on her head all the time, right? Her head's like huge. If I wear this, it would look smaller. Go to work for me, white boy. I'm good.

SPEAKER_01 0:33

Thanks.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

So we're going to begin with our first matchup with Tim Waltz versus Gavin Newsome.

SPEAKER_02 0:47

All right. So this scandal is widely referred to in the media as the feeding our future fraud case. Currently, the fraud total that they have verified is$250 million, with$9 billion overall, which is a huge jump. I don't know how they go from$250 million verified to$9 billion, like is the suspected whatever fraud ring. What it all boils down to is that Tim Walls is ultimately responsible. He's the guy who's in charge of oversight in his state. This all happened in his state. That's coming. Yeah, exactly. I mean, he he resigned when this all came out, and you know, he wants to play it off like, oh, I'm resigning because I'm I'm taking on the Trump administration and uh, you know, from a moral standpoint or whatever. But the reality is he resigned because everybody knows that he's either involved or they called him in, like, hey, you better you better resign or you're going to prison.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

He's unelectable. Like that nobody's going to back him anymore. He and on top of that, he's a total uh he's a total moron.

SPEAKER_02 1:58

Yeah. This obviously was blown up by uh Nick Shirley, right? But these daycares were were claiming to feed like literally thousands of kids a day. And there's not a single kid in the daycare. And and then when they when it came out that there were no kids in the daycare, they start bussing people in students in, and they're like writing, then they're caught on video writing the parents' checks to participate in the fraud.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

Yeah, I seen a video where they're dropping off kids. It was like two days after Nick Shirley uh exposed the Learing Center. And then there's like there's a bunch of people pulling up like a couple days later, dropping kids off. And I'm not sure if I'm right about this, but I think that it was just like they were dropping them off and going out the back door being picked up.

SPEAKER_02 2:51

Yeah, no, that was essentially what it was. Yeah. I mean, dropping them off and going out the back door, or like walking in the front door, checking in and then walking back out and getting in the car.

SPEAKER_00 3:02

Yeah, and then the Somali crowd, this the Somali citizens there are basically just saying, screw you. You know, yeah, they're lashing out at Nick Shirley, but they're basically saying, screw you. We we they've I've seen videos where they come on and they're like, Yeah, we're I'm taking all this money and I'm living large and I've got all this stuff, and you know, they've got million-dollar houses. And meanwhile, the rest of us out here are like, I hope that I can just keep my pay my water bill. Yeah, exactly. Right. Yeah, I got to pay my HOA fees, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:36

Which is now run by the Somalians.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

Right. I'm getting shaken down every direction by neighbors over here eating cats, and I can't afford drinking water.

SPEAKER_02 3:46

I can't get a can of spaghettios. Are you serious? So the uh so where where Walls is directly tied to this, the Department of Education in Minnesota actually caught this fraud over a year before Nick Shirley did. And they cut off the funding to these Somalian daycares. Then the Somalian daycares sued, and then while they were being sued, Walls made the decision to allow the the daycares to continue to be funded through government programs until the lawsuit was was settled. So he he's directly linked in that way. Like he and it may have not have been a it may not have been a you know a profitable deal or tying him directly to it for profit for himself or his family or his campaign or whatever. But he is the guy who made the call that said, you know, while we're going through this litigation with them, they they continue to receive funds. And then if they're found to be fraudulent, then they have to pay out all back. Which it doesn't, it's like uh that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I mean, they're clearly just robbing us blind and sending the money overseas and buying their drug lords over their, you know,$40 million, or was it$4 million or$40 million in luxury SUVs? Yeah,$40 million in luxury SUVs that were shipping over to like, you know, whatever. I don't know what you call the people in Somalia, but they're they're all pirates.

SPEAKER_01 5:18

Like, do they all look like this? This is crazy.

SPEAKER_02 5:20

Is that why Ilan Omar is it is Ilan Omar is the one with the big thing on her head all the time, right?

SPEAKER_00 5:26

Yeah. I mean, she's that why? Because her head's like huge.

SPEAKER_02 5:31

If I wear this, it would look smaller. Wrong. Jesse Kelly call them balloon heads. It reminds me of those little those little chicken things that you squeeze them and their eyes pop out.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

I'm sorry, uh, but you can't take somebody like that serious. And I've seen some of them on the on social media, like making threats. You know, like I'm like, I I mean being afraid to use, like being afraid of an uh 80-pound girl scout.

SPEAKER_01 6:02

Yeah, did you see the one where the guy was like, go to work, white boy? Go to work for me, white boy.

SPEAKER_02 6:07

Yeah. Like I'm good, thanks.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

Nah, take your jail now, by the way. Yeah. Yeah. But and see, that's the problem too, though, is a lot of them have been jailed, but a lot of them are getting released by by these liberal judges. That I mean, if you and I did that, we'd have been in jail a long time ago. It wouldn't be a second offense, third offense. Uh it would be lock him up, put him away.

SPEAKER_02 6:33

It's wild to me that like one million dollars would change the course of my life. And and for them, they have stolen nine billion dollars. It's pocket change.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

Pocket change. They're just gonna be a change. Like they could take a hundred million dollars. Yeah, exactly. They could take a hundred million dollars. And and and that's nothing compared to nine billion.

SPEAKER_01 6:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:00

That's not even uh uh what is that? It's that's it doesn't matter what it is. I'll just try to do math, but it's a lot of damn money. Yeah. And and the how they're able to just continually steal this money, live large, and then also on top of that, they're shipping back millions through the airport. Like, what happened to the$10,000 rule? Yeah, like if I go and put ten thousand and one dollars in the bank, they're letting the federal government know right away that I put ten thousand dollars, ten thousand and one dollars in the bank. But these people can take nine billion and it's like, oh, well, we didn't even know that was happening.

SPEAKER_02 7:44

Yeah, yeah. I remember I transferred money for something from one of my own accounts to another one of my own accounts a couple years ago, and the bank was like, Well, what is this transfer for? And I'm like, Because I'm it's none of your business. Like, it's my money. I'm transferring it from my account to another account. Why are you even asking me? And they're like, Well, we have to put it on this form for the government. And, you know, if you put none of your business, then they're probably gonna come. And I'm like, okay, I'm buying a boat or whatever it was that I was doing. You know, it's like, right, what you guys are asking me why I'm transferring money, and you have no idea that somebody's taking nine billion dollars from us.

unknown 8:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:21

How is this it's how is this possible?

SPEAKER_00 8:23

It's the same as a cop pulling you over and going, where are you headed? I'm like, how's that relevant? Yeah, was I speeding or I'm sorry. Yeah. More appropriate question is why did you pull me over? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:36

Got you going 90 and a 30 back there. Where are you going?

SPEAKER_00 8:40

Does it matter? All that matters is I'm trying to get there fast. Somewhere quick, jackass. So we have the the fraud that we're talking about to the tune of we've talked about it before in previous rounds of 18 billion.

SPEAKER_02 9:00

Um yeah, yeah, that's just the daycare thing that doesn't include the the Medicare Medicaid thing. So there's another nine billion on top of that. It's a massive amount of money. Um the program was for feeding kids. Kids didn't exist. Um, we're gonna do the Palisades fire for Gavin Newsom, is the biggest one. So I think it has the biggest impact. But yeah, as far as for Tim Walls goes, that's that's pretty much everything, man. I mean, it's there's there's other fraud cases that and and things that he's tied to that we could, you know, clearly talk about or throw in here, but that's that's the biggest thing that he Well, more to come for sure.

SPEAKER_00 9:35

I I don't think we've seen the last of Tim Waltz. And I mean, if you if the biggest thing you have is the$18 billion, which is huge, then I think there's probably a lot of other smaller things, or there could be bigger things, because I don't think Nick Shirley or anybody's done anything regarding hospices in Minnesota. They started off with the daycare centers and now they got these luxury cars being stolen. I haven't heard any reports based on the hospice thing because Nick Shirley went to California and found all these hospice things, which ties in Gavin Newsom. Yeah. Um, and found all these fraudulent hospice places that are uh I think in the hundreds of millions.

SPEAKER_02 10:17

I feel like Biden is is probably the the ringleader of this type of corruption. But I think that Biden is like tied to like a crime. I mean, he operates like a crime boss, like a like a mafia person. So to me, yeah, he thinks he's a crime boss with corn pop. Yeah. I think oh cornpop. I think he is an actual crime boss. Like I mean, I don't know if he's tied to a mafia family, but he definitely operates like a crime boss.

SPEAKER_00 10:48

You know, money for favors, protection for money. I mean, he's got like tentacles. Uh like yeah, like Joe Biden.

SPEAKER_02 10:57

But I think that Tim Walls mirrors, I mean, Tim Walls and Gavin Usome both, they mirror that that leadership or that style of of um leadership.

SPEAKER_00 11:06

COVID really kicked a lot of this stuff off. I mean, I don't know how far the fraud goes back, but COVID, just just for the payment uh protection plan or the PPP loans, yeah. I mean, that that was in the tune of I think billions. It it was a lot. I believe that there is a bigger cabal that's in charge globally than just our president. And I think that when Biden got elected, it probably was a practice uh practice ground for corruption and fraud. Like I think that they said, we got COVID here, we're succeeding, there's a lot of fraud with PPP loans, everything's great. Hey, why don't we just open up these child care centers? Let's let's be fraudulent with Medicare. Our people are in charge right now, nobody's gonna be accountable. They all pretty much believed that they could beat Trump with anybody because they put Kamala Harris out there, thinking without even like they weren't even trying. It's like I thought that there was gonna be a corrupt vote or an illegitimate election because they seemed so confident. They put the dumbest person they could put out there and thinking that she's gonna win, and they lost every swing state and all that. So I think that they were banking on winning, Kamala winning, and the fraud would just continue. But Trump got elected, changed everything up, and then we had Nick Shirley and and others go out and start really exposing things. I I think that they thought they were gonna be able to get away with it for eight years or longer.

SPEAKER_02 12:45

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Saw the other day with uh Kamala doing an interview, and she's like, this was the closest presidential election in the 21st century. Like, uh, it wasn't even first off, it wasn't even close at all. And like, anyways, but okay, so shall we go on to uh Gavin? Yeah, let's let's dive into Gavin Newsome. So you would think though, I mean,$18 billion in or$9 billion, even if you don't even count the the the um stuff that's kind of just coming out, uh just the nine billion alone on the smallly daycare thing is is massive. And you would think, based on that alone, that Tim Walls would probably be a shoe-in for this versus Gavin Newsom.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

But yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:37

So Gavin Newsom is being held accountable or being not held accountable, really, because nobody's in our nobody in our government's held very held accountable for anything. But he's being the guy who he's being the uh you know, he was in charge basically, and and is responsible for the decisions that were made that may or may not have led to one of the most dangerous wildfires that has has hit the West Coast in a while. So and they've had several. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. And it's ironically almost always based on the same problems that they just continue to refuse to fix. But so criticism against him for the Palisade Wildfires specifically, poor vegetation management, um, which re you know serves as a fuel for these fires. I mean, no, they didn't they didn't clear the forests and um I mean you can drive through there today and there's down trees left and right. So in addition, though, to the vegetation and vegetation management and and tree trimming, the over-regulation by California's leadership, which is I mean, California never over-regulates anything. I don't know why they would even throw this in there. But over-regulation by Canada or by Canada, by California. So what's the difference? Controlled burns and land clearing. So they made people have like specific permits and then they denied the permits, and then they extended the time it took to approve the permits, and then all this crap, which resulted in no controlled burns occurring, which would which resulted in multiple buildup of of said down trees. Anyway, uh that mixed with the the um levees or the the uh lack of water. Not the levees, yeah. What what is the what are those holding tanks called reservoirs? Reservoirs, the reservoirs not being filled. Uh so the inevitable fire was either started or um naturally occurred. Um but it was I think later determined to be PGE power lines.

SPEAKER_00 15:36

Um which we talked about before with Gavin Newsom, who helps PG and E remain solvent. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:44

They didn't allow that wall, that law, that lawsuit to affect their income, basically. But just on just on the Palisade fires alone, excluding all of the all of that, um a total of 12 people died in the Palisade fires, and um I think it was another 19 people died in the Eton fire, which was in a different different area of Los Angeles. So a total of 31 confirmed deaths due to wildfires spreading across the area. So I mean, to me, like again, Tim Wall's nine billion dollars in fraud, you would think that that's like a open and shut case. But to me, if you're responsible for 30 deaths because of your incompetence, you're probably taking first place. Let the listeners decide. But I think that I think that uh my my vote for moving forward in the into the final four is Gavin.

SPEAKER_00 16:36

On top of all the death and loss of homes and all that, now the people there are people out there, their homes didn't get burnt down. They can't go back into the homes because of something to do with insurance or whatever. So there's people that have lost homes that can't get the permits to build the homes, even though Donald Trump said, no, we're gonna we're gonna make it to where there's no regulations, there's no, you know, we're gonna fast track permits and all that stuff. Nothing was ever, I mean, clearly nothing was fast tracked. There's literally thousands of people, or at least hundreds of people, that cannot rebuild that um they have people that are squatting on their land. What they're wanting to do is there's this big initiative to build smart cities. And I don't know all the details of the smart cities, but it sounds pretty uh 1984 George Orwell type stuff. George Orwell meets uh communist China. Yeah, exactly. They should have been rebuilt by now. So are they trying to just stalling until the next Democrat's in office? Are they and then are they gonna try to take this land in the Palisades and build smart start building smart cities? I don't know. Just condemn it. If Gavin Newsom was responsible for the Palisades fire indirectly, he didn't start the fire, but if he was responsible and one person died versus if Tim Waltz is part of all this fraud and zero people died, which we don't know if that's true or not, but all we can go is on the stats, then a hundred percent Gavin Newsom wins this hands down because he has blood on his hands for sure. That doesn't mean Tim Waltz doesn't, but Gavin Newsom is the winner and he moves on to the final four. So for our next match, we have on the Democrat side of the bracket still, we have Hillary Clinton versus Barack Obama.

SPEAKER_02 18:35

All right.

SPEAKER_00 18:38

Did you say Hillary Clinton?

SPEAKER_02 18:40

Yeah. Reputation precedes her. Let's start with Barack. Biggest corruption scandal, yeah, incident would probably be the NSA surveillance and drone program. There's targeted strikes by drones that wound up killing Americans, and then there's um the Snowden leaks, which revealed that the NSA was doing massive data collection on phone metadata and internet activity from U.S. citizens. Barack Obama expanded the Predator Drone Strike Program. He expanded the use of drone of drones in modern day warfare, including targeting civilians by accident, admittedly, or at least according to the official story. There were targeted killings of high profile people in Al-Qaeda, which was conducted at events where they were around civilians. And those strikes would not only resulted in the deaths of civilians in Pakistan and Yemen and I think Saudi Arabia, they also resulted in the deaths of multiple American citizens. But um the programs were legal under the government um interpretation of the law, and they were approved by the national security framework, so he did not receive any legal consequences from it. But from an ethical standpoint, he was criticized because he's not supposed to, you know, you're not supposed to use the American military to attack American citizens. However, these citizens were not in the United States when it happened and they were abroad. So his scandal, I guess, is not necessarily like a personal scandal that he took part in, but it is a systemic power scandal that I don't think that Gavin Newsom intended on killing 31 people, but it happened.

SPEAKER_00 20:27

So his his lack of leadership in in the situation indirectly indirectly caused the deaths of 31 people. So in this situation, if we have Barack Obama, his his decision was an indirect cause of their death. And so in in in war type in war type situations, there can be collateral damage. And yes, innocent people can be caught up in that. However, our government should never, ever, ever be responsible for killing its own citizens, indirectly or directly, unless we get to a point where we you know hear more about what kill Hillary Clinton is responsible for. These are pretty egregious acts by Barack Obama.

SPEAKER_02 21:20

I would say a sub subcategory of his was the NSA deal with um Snowden, releasing all of the all of the stuff. So Biden or not Biden, Obama was kind of reading everyone's emails. On the flip side of that coin, Hillary was deleting all of her emails. So I'd say that's a sub scandal, though, for her. For me personally, I think with Hillary, we focus on Benghazi. Benghazi's probably got to be the highlight as as a as an elected official, Secretary of State, making the calls in the moment that resulted in the death of Americans. Benghazi's the neck and neck uh with the drone strikes.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

With Benghazi, this kind of goes back to what I was saying about soldiers. And how we understand that we could that soldiers can die in battle and that we understand that they understand that. But in the Benghazi situation, that was not necessary. Those those people at that uh was it embassy?

SPEAKER_02 22:18

Yeah, dip yeah, diplomatic compound.

SPEAKER_00 22:20

Yeah. Yeah. So the the people at that compound were official government people. They were Americans. Um some of them were soldiers. And they could have gotten help and they could have potentially saved some of those soldiers' lives, but O'Hillary didn't allow that to happen. They did not send any help in for way too long. So the controversy was that Hillary Clinton, as Secretary of State, did not take the proper action, did not give the proper orders, and soldiers and Americans died.

SPEAKER_02 22:56

So the drone strikes with Obama killed two American citizens and countless other citizens of other countries. Um, in Benghazi alone, four American citizens were killed in the one event on September 11th, 2012, uh when you know armed militants attacked the compound and security was overwhelmed. But it but Hillary's not just at fault for how she reacted in the moment. They had they had known that potential attacks were coming and they had requested additional security forces ahead of time, and those were denied by Hillary Clinton. So she denied the c the request for additional security, and then in the moment when the attacks started to occur, she allowed those to happen for a 13-hour period. There was three three Marines and Ambassador Chris Stevens were were killed. So those three Marines stayed behind while they evacuated everybody that they could. They stayed behind to protect the ambassador who never leaves. Um and there was there was a lot of of concerns and a lot of um conspiracy theories surrounding Chris Stevens and whether or not like was there something going on with Hillary Clinton that he had information on her or whatever, and she just allowed him to get killed and the the three Marines were collateral damage or what the situation was. But they had plenty of time to send in choppers or or special forces to definitely stop that attack, you know.

SPEAKER_00 24:22

Hillary Clinton just let Benghazi go and let people get killed. There should have been more care taken in that operation. But whenever you send soldiers out to face their own death and they have the ability to be saved, and you refuse that, that's more egregious to me. Hillary allowing soldiers to get killed because of her poor decision makes her hands down the winner in this one.

SPEAKER_02 24:51

Overall, just the the evilness of it or the I mean, I'm gonna that's that's what I'm gonna call it. I'm not gonna even say corruption. That is pure evil. I mean when you are when you are capable of saving people and don't, it's evil. I think she hates I think she's a demon personally.

SPEAKER_00 25:09

Yeah. No, I mean, like that that would be a gr crazy statement in the past, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:15

Yeah, until the uh I mean the Epstein files came out. Did you see the deal about uh frazzle drip? Did you see that? Different one, different, different kind without getting into too much gory detail. This deal was um supposedly there's an email with a zip file of a video on Epstein Island where she cut the face off of a child and wore it as a mask. And the Epstein files would come out. I was like, that's that's ridiculous, it's stupid, and whoever would believe it's a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00 26:00

It's so outrageous, and I'm not saying she's guilty, but it's so outrageous that they think we'll do it. Yeah, no one will be able to do it. Nobody's gonna believe it.

SPEAKER_02 26:07

Right. Right. But the crazy part to me was that whenever they asked her about it in the the hearing, they said, Are you aware of an email that Jeffrey Epstein had on his computer with a zip file that was titled, and before they even said the word frazzle drip, which is what the the file was titled, apparently, she started rolling her eyes, here we go again, kind of look on her face. And then as soon as they said the word frazzle drip, all of her lawyers were like, objection, objection. This is not within the whatever realm of questions we permitted or whatever. And that's fear. It it's insane to me, dude, because the the like you know, allowing four people to die in Benghazi is pure evil. That is satanic evil. Like that is unheard of evil, you know? Yeah, and whenever I heard it initially, I was like, dude, anybody who would believe this is a freaking idiot. And then I saw her face when they asked her directly about it, and I'm like, she did it. Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:10

I mean, it's wild to me that there's well, I don't know. Where there's smoke, there's fire, you know. And while some of this may be outrageous and untrue, there's truth sprinkled into it. And I don't know if she wore a child's face as a mask. That is the most horrific thing. Now, I'm not saying any of the politicians in our country in the world have seen files or no. But where there's smoke, there's fire, and I feel like if that hasn't happened, something has happened. When I look at Hillary, I feel like I'm looking at Evil.

SPEAKER_02 27:47

I mean, aside from all what we're talking about, like you know, if you if you look at the uh just the two cases, drone strikes and and the Benghazi thing, I still think Hillary edges out Obama.

SPEAKER_00 27:59

But yeah, I don't even think it's edges out. Like I think Bar Barack Obama is anti-American. I think that he wants this country destroyed. I think that he's an angry dude who wants to cause as much destruction as he can before he leaves this planet. However, Hillary Clinton, there's truth, there's rumors, whatever. There is too much surrounding this woman to not declare her more corrupt, more disgusting, more evil than Barack Obama. So any argument here that Hillary Clinton is the winner? No. Hands down, she's she's advancing. There you go. Hillary Clinton is the winner of this for the Democrat side of the bracket, the Republican side is going to be George Bush and Dick Cheney. And this is going to be a difficult one because they are both very strongly tied to each other. So uh your votes are going to matter because we may come out with a winner, but you may know something we don't. So let's go. George Bush, Dick Cheney.

SPEAKER_02 29:07

George W. Bush versus Dick Cheney. All right, so I mean, it's kind of hard, like you said, because they're connected at the hip and they're both responsible for the same things, but inevitably, George Bush was in charge when he was in the White House. So I'm gonna say for him, the Iraq war and uh weapons of mass destruction, intelligence fiasco, and then under Dick Cheney, direct supervision of a sanctioned torture project on Guantanamo Bay.

SPEAKER_00 29:39

Okay. This is one I didn't know about. So I feel like I should know it, but I didn't.

SPEAKER_02 29:44

He was in charge of a torture program that was not allowed to happen on U.S. shores because of constitutional law. So they developed an indefinite detention program on Guantanamo Bay and multiple CIA black sites where they used waterboarding, which violates international laws and human rights laws, to interrogate potential terrorists or people believed to be terrorists, and get information out of them, obviously, to expand the attacks that we were doing in Afghanistan. So it was seen as a um driving force to expand the presidential authority and aggressive countertism counter-terrorism policies. Um Cheney was often described as the architect of the organization and operated everything behind the scenes. Um the policies were approved. What is considered by like, you know, the Geneva Convention as like kind of ruthless things that he did.

SPEAKER_00 30:48

We're the only ones that follow the Geneva Convention. So I mean, like that screw the Geneva Convention. Like, if there's a thing and we're the only ones following the rules, then screw it. It doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_02 30:58

It's like NATO. Like we're the only ones paying. All these people are like, we should go to war. Should we? Should we really? You know? Right.

unknown 31:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:06

Uh and where are all them now? Whenever we decide to grab Iran by the balls, and they're like, well, I don't maybe we'll send a ship. We're not sure. We got to do what's good for our people.

SPEAKER_02 31:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:18

That was the ultimate chess play to me.

SPEAKER_02 31:20

It's like, you know, all right, we're calling you guys in. We've been talking for decades here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:24

Those guys are they're all French at this point. So uh we have Dick Cheney. I I think really if that's if that's the number one thing for him. I think it probably is. I don't think that I have a listen. If there's a terrorist that's trying to blow me up, waterboard the shit out of him. I don't care. I agree with you.

SPEAKER_02 31:48

I don't I don't have a problem with it either, but there is something to be said, and this is just me playing devil's advocate. There's something to be said that like how how far can power go in the name of security. Me personally, I think to torture all of them. I mean, if they're gonna if they're gonna give up information about what they're doing to try to kill us, torture them. I don't care. Kill them, I don't care. You know?

SPEAKER_00 32:11

Here's the problem though, with with that. Now I meant what I said. I don't care. If if there's a terrorist trying to figure out figure out how to blow me up, waterboard him, I don't care. Stick pins under his fingernails. I don't care about rules. If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics are terrible. So you know that that I believe in that. Suck at planning.

unknown 32:37

Right.

SPEAKER_00 32:38

I don't care. The problem with that is though, is that historically these little ventures of terrorizing or uh uh torturing terrorists and and things like that in the name of information and protecting America, unfortunately, they take these tactics and they use them inside America on Americans. And yeah, that's that's where I have a problem with it is like they practice it, they perfect it, and then whoever they need to use it on here in the United States and okay, ask me to quote a case, I can't. But there's another one.

SPEAKER_02 33:15

Yeah, because it's happening in CIA black black yeah, yeah, exactly. It's happening in CIA black sites or something that nobody knows about. I mean, that's right.

SPEAKER_00 33:23

Yeah. So so you know, that's that's my problem with it, is that if you're gonna use that to protect us, then I don't care about the rules. But if you're gonna use that to turn it on us, then I care deeply about that. So um, but but as far as the the Guantanamo Bay, you know, if he tortured people wrongfully, if he tortured innocent people, that's not good. The problem is that it's hard to figure out who is innocent and who is guilty. And and when it comes to the protection of America and Americans, do it.

SPEAKER_02 33:57

Can you imagine being caught as like a terrorist? And you're like a legitimate terrorist, and you're in Guantanamo Bay, you know that back home the girl you had a crush on is married to some guy named John, and you hate John, and they're waterboarding the shit out of you, and you're like, it was John, right? And then John gets brought in and waterboarded in Guantanamo, and he's like, I have no idea what you're talking about, you know? It's like that's a really good point, though, because that you don't have any idea who they don't know who's telling the truth. Like, if what if these people are like highly trained in torture and they're like, oh yeah, we'll just give false information the whole time. So I mean, on the other hand, I think there's a point of torture where you're just like, you know what, these guys aren't gonna stop. I'll tell you whatever you want me to tell you, please just stop torturing me.

SPEAKER_00 34:53

Right. And, you know, and you can't, can you rely on information under duress? You know, I don't know. There's there's a whole lot of back argument there. But I, for one, am not going to be uh offended or bothered by somebody who wants to kill me. If I don't know it and somebody else does, you need to either let me know so I can go torture the bastard, or you need to do it, but somebody needs to make sure I have the information I need or the safety I need, and so does my family. So but unfortunately, we do have these programs. Uh MK Ultra. If they'll do things like that and a whole list of other things that they've done.

SPEAKER_02 35:34

That was done on American soldiers. I mean, that's insane.

SPEAKER_00 35:38

You know? I mean, they did things for in in Vietnam with syphilis and you know, it's it's I'm just saying it's not out of the realm of possibility that they use techniques to perfect them on prisoners so they can figure out how to use them on whoever they deem as an enemy. So right now, and when we're getting ready to get to George Bush, but the biggest thing for me is that Cheney literally shot somebody in the face. So he's kind of he's kind of winning. Fair statement. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:07

That's uh and that was a friend.

SPEAKER_00 36:11

That was a friend. An awful shot. Terrible. Friends without benefits. Yeah, without benefits. But let's go ahead and jump into George Bush.

SPEAKER_02 36:24

George W. Bush, probably the Iraq war and weapons of mass uh destruction intelligence information is probably the biggest corruption outside of the conspiracy 9-11 side of things, just strictly facts. Um, we invaded Iraq in 2003. We did so almost entirely based off of intelligence that said that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. After we invaded, we found out that there were no weapons of mass destruction in the supposed stockpiles that he had um, or that our intelligence agencies had referenced as being the reason to invade. So the intelligence was viewed globally as flawed and overstated, and critics argue that the administration pushed the intelligence to support the invasion. The impact of that was hundreds of thousands of deaths in the Iraq war, both on the Iraqi side and the American side, and long-term instability in the region, which stands to this day. Um and then obviously. Yeah. And but and then the massive financial costs um associated with it, as far as you know, for the the average American citizen. So after the fact, um, it was found that uh there were massive intelligence failures across multiple agencies. There was never any proof that Bush lied himself, but there was proof, obviously, that they used the um intelligence findings, which were believed to be accurate at the time, to invade. So I guess, I mean, to me, as far as people died in American people who died and people in general who died, Bush far outweighs Cheney on the um scandal front or on the and if we're going off strictly deaths, it's gotta be Bush. On the other hand, you are looking at George W. Bush, who, you know, is known for his fuzzy math or whatever it was, comment. So, I mean, I don't know if you can hold Bush responsible for information provided to him by intelligence agencies that told him there's a reason to go in. If you, if I'm the president of the United States and somebody comes to me with an official intelligence reports and says, we know they have mass uh weapons of mass destruction and they intend to use them on Americans or they are supporting terrorists and we're at a war, you know, we're in a war against terror. Do you decide to go in? If I'm the president, yeah, I'm I'm pulling a Pete Heggseth, bomb them all, we'll figure it out later.

SPEAKER_00 39:05

You know, but if he had bad information, then that would have affected his strategy in a big way. So so and you know, how how do we know that uh Dick Cheney didn't affect the strategy?

unknown 39:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:23

Well, he might he had he had dent defense contractors. I mean he he was he was in it to win that might have been why he was selected to be VP with all his connections with you know KBR, with his defense contract connections, and that that's why this this matchup is hard because Dick Cheney and George Bush are tied so much together that we don't know how much Dick Cheney influenced George Bush because Dick Cheney is your classic type A warmonger, and he knows the profit or he knew the profits in defense contracts and and all the things. Yeah there was a like defense contractors want to go to war. That's how they make money. And whenever we get attacked on our homeland and war is inevitable, that's what that's what I don't understand is why lie? Like with isn't 9-11 enough justification by itself?

SPEAKER_02 40:24

Yeah, I mean, if you could tie Iraq to it in any way, it's enough, it's enough justification. But I mean ever everything you just highlighted is my reason for saying that Dick Cheney is out of out of Dick Cheney versus George W. Bush, I think that Dick Cheney edges out Bush because Cheney He seems more vindictive than it seems planned and intentional, you know? It seems uh it seems like there was more strategy in his uh in his methods than uh than Bush had. I mean, Bush was, you know, trying to figure out what was going on. I think that Bush is a he he's a I mean he you gotta be somewhat sharp to become the president of the United States, but at the same time Well, he came from the bloodline though. Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's a little bit of a of a you're kind of just a puppet at at some point. Like I think that Bush got played a little bit in that, and I think that Cheney's responsible for what what we are comparing Cheney and his torture at Guantanamo Bay to Bush and his weapons of mass destruction reason to invade Iraq, it's pretty uh arguable that Cheney influenced Bush's interpretation of weapons of mass destruction data. So I think that Cheney's almost responsible for both.

SPEAKER_00 41:48

Who was more well-versed in global issues? Was it Dick Cheney or was it George Bush? Now, I I personally think Dick Cheney. Hey, he ran Halliburton, he ran KBR, he had all these contracts. You know as well as I do, whenever you operate in these other countries, there's like traditions and customs and bribes that are built into the cost. So you're you're getting all these global contracts, you're meeting with all these powerful global people because you're in the big energy. And back then, Halliburton was big dog on the block for for oil field services.

SPEAKER_02 42:27

I mean, hell, they're still number three, you know?

SPEAKER_00 42:29

Well, yeah, exactly. So in my opinion, I think that I think George Bush was just maybe a step above Joe Biden.

SPEAKER_02 42:41

Yeah, I think that George Bush is, you know, him and his dad, um outside of being president, his dad was uh, you know, high up in the CIA during during Kennedy. Like George Bush Sr. is definitely um I guess up there as far as intelligence agencies go in America. But I think that George W. Bush is probably well versed in American politics, American policies, things that go on on our and on our continent, but Cheney is much more well-versed in in the global tactics. Um, just from his time at Halliburton, even we know how it goes. I mean, there's there's a lot of stuff, like you said, that you learn along the way, like there's oh, you gotta pay this guy to get this contract and scratch this guy's back to get this bid and whatever.

SPEAKER_00 43:29

And he knew all of that. George Bush wanted to be president because he had something to prove to Daddy, and the movies that have been made about him and all that stuff suggest that that's true. And then he won the presidency and he needed somebody as vice president to walk him through all these things. Yep. And he was very, very easily influenced, I believe. And so for those reasons, with okay, the Guantanamo Bay thing we talked about for the global. Knowledge of things, for probably being involved in the lies, for probably being a very instrumental person for the Patriot. And in addition to that, shooting somebody in the face, I give this to Dick Cheney. Yep. I agree with you. Hands down, Dick Cheney. Okay. So there we have it. Dick Cheney is the winner. We only have one more match left to go to determine the final four. And that is gonna be between Donald Trump and Richard Nixon. Oh, Dick Nixon. I don't think that Donald Trump you don't get to where he is in life without maybe some shady deals. I'm not saying corrupt or even illegal, but you gotta push the envelope to achieve that kind of success. So he's probably got some corrupt things or some corrupt-like things. But when we talk about corruption, we're also talking about what affects America. The stuff he got convicted on was before he was president. So I think we have to weigh in what has he been involved with corruption-wise as president, whether it was when he was 45 or 47, what did he do that was corrupt as a president? And the main thing that we've talked about, because we're gonna be duplicative here in this because we're talking about the same people over and over. But the biggest thing with me and Donald Trump is the fact that he ran on one thing and then told us it was nothing, and that's the Epstein files. Said he was gonna release them. And what was so ironic is that there was all this pressure uh after they finally released the Epstein files after saying it was nothing and asking us why are we even talking about this and all that. After they released the Epstein files and everybody was digging deep in that, then out of the blue, he brings up, well, I think we're gonna have we're gonna have to release the UFO files. And so then everybody goes, Epstein, oh UFOs, yeah. Squirrel. Yeah. And and so to me, it gives the appearance that you're trying to distract us. Like you finally gave up and gave it to us because you realize we weren't gonna let it go. And then we have it, and then you're like, ah, I guess what? UFO files. Oh, by the way, we're gonna attack Iran, and uh, oh, by the way, we're gonna do this, and it's like, what happened? Like, what what are we focusing on? I don't know if it's corrupt, but it feels corrupt. It feels dishonest. And if you're trying to really prove that you're not in the Epstein files and you know it for sure, why are you saying it's a nothing burger and then releasing it? That that whether there's something going on or not, that looks bad.

SPEAKER_02 46:53

I think that the controversy is that the full client list has not been released still. So to me, you know, there's all this talk about whether or not the Israelis are having influence over the American government. And there's all this talk about whether there's people on the list. And at first, when they were not releasing names on the list, I thought, okay, well, Trump's playing chess. You know, he's he's trying to, he probably knows the names of the people on the list. He's going to those people and he's saying, you're going to vote like this on this thing that I propose, or I'm going to release this to the public. And then all of this stuff came in about the Israelis and how it might be like a, you know, um, there might be a bunch of powerful Israelis on the list, and the Israelis are influencing our government, uh, our elected officials, and that we're um protecting Israelis. And then it came out that Epstein himself may have been uh a Mossad agent. And there's there's all this stuff that's like come out. And I so I think to me, it's it's not only what you said, but also the the fact that there might be a conspiracy that's much deeper tied to it that obviously none of us understand because we haven't seen the Epstein files, and there's this constant distraction. So I mean, I still feel like we've covered Trump, but I feel like that that's just worth bringing up. There's there's an awful lot of information that's not adding up with the Epstein files from the initial, you know, running on it as a as a campaign promise that we're gonna release the Epstein files, we're gonna get to the bottom of this. And, you know, um Cash Patel saying that the former FBI director had these inform this information on his desk and he's doing nothing with it, and saying, you know, if if Trump makes me the FBI director, I'm gonna release these files and I'm gonna make sure we get to the bottom of it. And then both of those people and Pam Bondi pivoting and saying, Well, are we still talking about the Epstein files? Like what are we talking about here?

SPEAKER_00 48:48

All of them that's like we're stupid.

SPEAKER_02 48:50

Yeah, it's all that's all suspicious in itself. And then to go uh a step further and find out that it may have like foreign influence causing the secretive is like a whole if you're running on America first, that is a a massive anti-American concern that needs to be addressed. So um again, I mean, that's not necessarily it's not necessarily a corruption scandal.

SPEAKER_00 49:19

He could have just not ran on saying he'll release it. Like he could have just said, listen, we're gonna look into it, and if there's no national security concerns, we will release what we can. But he made it a promise. And and and then, you know, after they come out, you start seeing people just getting out ahead of it, CEOs of of companies and uh other people in different countries stepping down from their positions and all that. So if he was an agent for Israel, then it makes sense that he would have influence, that he would invite powerful people in, that he would videotape everything and have power against these people, and that Israel, in the name of survival, in the name of national security or whatever, they can use that to control or at least to prevent these people from taking actions. And so I think while these people who are whoever was there, I think they went for their own personal pleasure, but I think they were being sucked in because they were vulnerable. I don't think it was just these people were picked for a reason. It wasn't like, oh, hey, what's your name? Oh, my name's Tim. It's good to meet you in this bar. You want to come out to this island? No. That's they're not gonna ask me. I'm nobody. Yeah, but they're going to be a little bit more.

SPEAKER_02 50:44

It's very much a Diddy situation where there's cameras and you know, the whole the whole thing's set up for blackmail, which which lends credibility to the the Israeli Massad theory.

SPEAKER_00 50:55

Yeah, you know, and I don't know if it's true, but there's enough there with the denials and the nothing burger, and it is something, it's not something. Okay, well, here you go, but don't worry about this is nothing. It's so heavily redacted you can't get anything out of it. You know, it's just like, look, if you're not in it and you know it's bad, release it. Because children should not be trafficked, abused, sexually abused, mutilated. All the things that are indicated in the Epstein files that that that should that's just a no-go. That's there is nothing political to be gained from trafficking women or children for for that matter. Like it's just it's it's absolutely disgusting. Now, I'm not saying I've seen nothing personally that indicates Trump has done anything bad. But we all know when people get money, when they get FU money, your mind changes because now the whole world is accessible to you.

SPEAKER_02 51:58

But I mean, in Trump's defense on that, he's kind of born with FU money. So if we're if we're just comparing Trump to Nixon, though, it's hard to say that Trump because there's not any proof in the files. You know, there's proof that Trump was on um there's proof that Trump was on the plane that Jeffrey Epstein owned, but the flip side of that coin is that Trump was on the plane that Jeffrey Epstein owned before Jeffrey Epstein owned it. So he was on the plane with the previous owner, and then Trump uh, I mean, uh, then Epstein bought the plane, and from that point on, there's no records of Trump ever being associated with that plane as far as like tell number and FAA records go. So he wasn't on the plane after Epstein. So to say that he was on the island or on the plane or aware of what was going on on his island, you can't really say that Trump individually was involved in the corruption that we know of. And you can verify, according to the files that have been released, that Trump not only knew that something was going on with Epstein, but that he kicked him out of Mar-a-Lago. So again, I'm completely with you. All the files should be released. But in the in a strictly Trump versus Nixon case, we can't really say that Trump did something corrupt other than we suspect he did something corrupt by not releasing the names that are in the file.

SPEAKER_00 53:28

But there are social groups everywhere. There's social groups in your life, there's a social group in my neighborhood. These things exist in society, period. Now, are you telling me? And I say are you just in general, but are people telling me that New Yorkers are not a social group? And then break it down even more to rich New Yorkers, which are probably a smaller social group, and then you take ultra-rich billionaire New Yorkers, of which Epstein and Donald Trump were.

SPEAKER_02 54:18

No, that's a fair point. That's a fair point.

SPEAKER_00 54:20

So it doesn't prove anything against Trump. I'm just saying you're telling me that you are a billionaire, Epstein's a billionaire, you're both from New York, you both were hanging out together in pictures with a lot of young, pretty women in the pictures. Doesn't really mean anything. There's a lot of young pretty women around rich men. But when you add all that together, it makes it a little less believable, even though it's not provable that that Trump was involved with anything. I just find it hard to believe. Back then there was even fewer billionaires than there are now. Like there was not a lot of billionaires. You're telling me they didn't run in the same circles and know, even if it was just by rumor, like, oh, hey, I heard a Webstein over here was having a crazy party with a bunch of kids. You know? Doesn't mean somebody was there, but people knew about it. You just don't keep stuff like that quiet, especially in a small group of elite people who make it a practice to know everything about who they're dealing with because they all want something to hold against each other. I guarantee you Trump has a Rolodex of people that owe him favors or that he knows things about that he uses to get deals across the board or has for sure.

SPEAKER_02 55:34

But that's kind of that's kind of part of it, is like, is that what he's doing? You know, is he is he somebody who didn't participate in it that does know all of this stuff and is using it to his advantage? And that's something that you have to consider, you know, for what we're for what we're trying to do, you have to consider that as like a possibility because there's not any hard evidence that Trump participated. You run it in the circles like, you know, you got to look at who you're surrounded by and who you're associating with. So I'm not denying that. I'm just saying verifiable proof. I think that Nixon kind of edges out so far.

SPEAKER_00 56:07

Um we all, you know, we all know it's lean on provable things over assumptions, which is why a lot of these people in our bracket have moved on to the later rounds, is because we they were facing people that are probably corrupt, but it's there's nothing on the books that's that's proving it, convictions or investigations or whatever. So whenever you talk about oh Richard Nixon, well, we it's one of the biggest scandals in in American history, uh, Watergate, and the things that he did in Watergate, which included spying on the DNC, wiretaps, um, things that are all very unconstitutional and proven.

SPEAKER_02 56:52

So And there's no like there were secret tapes of him in the in the Oval Office that proved that he ordered obstruction of justice. So he Right like I mean, it's kind of an open and shut case on what Watergate was because it's been it's been investigated and beat to death, you know, over the years. But I mean it's it's a proven thing versus Trump's, you know I'm not denying or disagreeing, but it's it's proven, it's documented, there's consequences that happened. And Nixon's like long been viewed as like the gold standard of corruption, just because he was proven to be corrupt and and involved in these things. So I mean, I don't know, I don't know if he edges out uh Trump. Epstein files is obviously far more egregious and terrible uh things that happen to children on that island.

SPEAKER_00 57:40

Because we don't I don't want to get caught up in the whole Trump derangement syndrome. I'll call him out. If there's if there's things that I don't agree with or things that I think are bad, I will say it because I have no loyalty to any one of these parties. Don't care. Yeah, they all suck. Right. But at the same time, we have definitely historical, proven and admissions, uh recordings. I mean, it is 100% true what Richard Nixon did. And so we can't uh outweigh probability with uh proof. But what we can say is that it was one of the most corrupt things to ever happen in the history of American government. And with that said, I think that he doesn't only edge out Trump, he flat out beats Trump. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_02 58:29

You're talking about a president who was, you know, impeached by a party that is has been out to get him. I mean, uh I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm not like a um die hard Trump fan. I'm with you. Like there's there's people that I I think that give give Trump the benefit of the doubt when he doesn't necessarily deserve it. But I can also agree that they've been out to get Trump with, you know, false or ridiculous impeachments over things that don't even make any sense versus a president who who knew he was going to be impeached and resigned because he he knew he had broken the law. He was the architect. My opinion is that Nixon Nixon takes the cake on the on the Trump versus Nixon.

SPEAKER_00 59:16

Okay. So there we have it. Nixon is the winner. So we, ladies and gentlemen, are down to our final four. And those final four consist of Gavin Newsom, Hillary Clinton, Richard Nixon, and Dick Cheney. So we hope that you will uh continue to watch, continue to vote. We want to know what you say and see if you agree or disagree with us. And we may end up with two results ours and yours, but we still want your votes because your votes are the most important. So thanks for watching. Keep listening and stay frosty.