E53 — Keith Hackland: Birding the Rio Grande Valley from the Alamo Inn

In this episode of Naturally Scott, Scott sits down with Keith Hackland, owner of the Alamo Inn B&B, Gear and Tours, and one of the best-known hosts in American birding. From the heart of the lower Rio Grande Valley, Keith shares what makes this corner of Texas one of the richest birding regions in the country — and why so many birders come once and then spend a lifetime coming back.

Keith reflects on his path from South Africa to South Texas, the restoration of the historic Alamo Inn, and how a building that might have been lost became a home base for birders from around the world. Along the way, he talks about the valley’s remarkable mix of resident species, migrants, rarities, and vagrants, and why birds like Green Jays, Bat Falcons, Muscovy Ducks, Clay-colored Thrushes, and parrots tell a much larger story about habitat, geography, and adaptation.

Scott and Keith also explore the culture of the valley itself — the food, the people, the influence of Mexico, the draw of South Padre Island and the ranch country farther west — and how birding here is about more than a list. It is about community, hospitality, and learning to see how birds and people shape one another’s worlds.

This is a conversation about place, migration, friendship, and why some birding destinations become part of you.

Learn more about the Alamo Inn and birding in the valley at the Alamo Inn B&B, Gear and Tours.

For updates, bonus content, and behind-the-scenes notes from Naturally Scott, subscribe here:
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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello and welcome to this edition of Naturally Scott. I'm your host, Scott Harris, and I'm delighted to have a friend and innkeeper on today, Keith Hackland of Alamo Inn Bed and Breakfast. They also gears and tours are in the title. Keith and his wife own and run this beautiful spot filled with private sweets and great attitudes and friendly people. They're located in southwestern Texas, Rio Grande Valley, perhaps the richest birding area in the country. And the entire focus of this place is on birds and burgers. And having stayed there a number of times and developed a friendship with Geek, I can tell you it is a spectacular place to go. There are so many birds to see down there. Migratory birds coming through, the resident birds, the spring, the winter, the whole thing. It's just gorgeous. And you will learn all about it today, about the birds and about the inn. No doubt about it, man. I want you to know about this inn. I think it's special. You may have heard of the inn. If you've seen the Netflix documentary Burgers, Alamo Inn was highlighted in that. And uh justifiably so. They opened back in 1999. His wife moved here from Africa and established uh a life in Alamo, Texas, and have grown into being enthusiastic and supportive burgers. And I think you're really going to enjoy uh meeting Keith, learning about the burning down in the Rio Grande Valley, if you have not already, prompting you to watch the Netflix documentary Burgers, which is not just about the Alamo in a pretty cool documentary. And uh you'll get to know Keith. So have a great time. Enjoy. And as always, man, thanks for checking in and stay curious. Hello and welcome to this edition of Naturally Scott. I'm your host, Scott Harris, and I'm honored today to have a man that has become a friend, um, Keith Hackland. And um, Keith is going to make a terrific guest. And first of all, I love his title from the first time. He's an innkeeper. I love I love knowing an innkeeper. Um, I think that's very cool. Uh, but Keith runs the Alamo Inn Bed and Breakfast Gear and Tours. It's kind of a a long title. It's extremely well known to birders, and uh we're gonna talk about that and Keith and Southeast Texas and just have a good old time here. Keith, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_03 2:16

Thank you. Thank you, Scott. Well, this I want to I want to say I I've listened to every one of your podcasts that's been posted. They are amazing.

SPEAKER_01 2:27

Well, you are you are very kind, and let's hope this continues that. I'd like to think you're part of a growing number of people that listens to a lot of the podcasts, but I am flattered that you do and that you share it with your guests there at the Alamo. Yeah. Um, so we're gonna talk about the Alamo in depth, but first let's talk a little bit about Southeast Texas. That is perhaps the richest birding area in the country. I I imagine there are a couple spots in Arizona or Florida or California that would want to argue, but I think overall it probably is, right?

SPEAKER_03 3:01

Southeast is pretty rich. We're actually in Southwest. Uh oh, I apologize. Southwest. If you follow the Gulf Coast along to the Mexican border and the Rio Grande River, that's where we're located. And uh we're more west than east, but we're really in a unique situation geographically, because we get birds f primarily from eastern U.S., but also from the west. We get we get migrants, we get vagrants, we get birds coming from the south up here to spend the summer, we get a lot of wintering birds. Uh about 70% of the um regular breeding birds in the U.S. interact with the Texas Gulf Coast, and we're no exception to that. Uh, we get a lot of wintering birds. And then the migrants all pass through here on their way to Central South America. They pass right over us, the land migrants, and the the Gulf migrants that fly at night, uh, often stop for a break, and they also pass right over us. So it's it's an amazing part of the country, six hundred and five hundred and sixty species. Texas has six hundred and seventy-five species. It's number one terrestrial for terrestrial birds in the U.S. And then the the lower Rio Grand Valley is the richest part of Texas.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

That is that is spectacular. Now, among those 560 birds, Keith, do you have a favorite?

SPEAKER_03 4:40

Yeah, it's a bird I'm looking at at any given moment. But uh the ones that one of the birds that's incredibly impressive down here is the green jay. It's an unforgettable bird. Its colors are dynamic. Uh it's a typical Jay in behavior almost. And uh they're they're pretty common.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

I was uh my first time I was a guest at year in um was also the first time I saw a green jay, and I was just stunned. I was absolutely stunned. Although I I did find myself wondering if green jays were scattered around the country in the way that you know so many of the blue jays are, um, you know, or or the the the blue-colored jays, the stellars and and everybody else. I wonder, and then and then if the blue jays were that tiny little spot like they are in Texas, I wonder if they would be considered just as spectacular. Um you know probably. You know, probably they're they're both such amazing birds.

SPEAKER_03 5:47

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

And and if you haven't seen a green jay, you know what? I'll throw a picture of one up here now. I've got a couple of them from my trips down with Keith. Um I'll throw some up if you're watching on YouTube. Uh but the color, it just looks like something out of Disney. Like somebody just created it that it wasn't real. A lot like the Rosie and Spoonbell behind you there in that picture. Yeah. If you don't know that's a real bird, you're you're not gonna believe that it is.

SPEAKER_03 6:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:14

Which which I think is true of so many birds. So it is.

SPEAKER_03 6:19

It is. When you start looking at birds, they're they're truly amazing.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

Now you mentioned that you get migration in both directions, and you have a steady number um of uh of permanent birds there. Uh so what are there times of the year that are better to come down and visit and see these?

SPEAKER_03 6:40

Or um You know, for for for for the first visit to this area, we I always recommend coming in the winter. The birds, the wintering birds are here, the local resident birds uh are here, and they're all coming to feeders if they're if they're uh grain eaters, and uh there's raptors everywhere. It's an easy time to bird. Uh it's reasonably cool. Uh we're a tropical desert here or semi-desert, so the summers get quite warm and the summers are pretty long. But the winter's from November, December through into March. And then the next time that's good is spring migration. People who visit the valley get addicted to coming back. We did a survey some years ago at the the local um uh RGV Burning Festival, and the average number of times that responders came to the valley they reported as 15. And that that's not that's not unusual. 15, 20 times. People just keep coming back.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

Well, I've I've not been fifteen, but I've been half that many. And and I will tell you that there hasn't been, and all of them spent with you, by the way. Um, but there has not been a disappointing trip yet. Um it seems like you go back and and maybe see some old familiar friends of both human and bird, and uh you've got your favorite spots that you go to, and you you know it's this particular feeder's been great for green jays or you know, whatever it might be. But then you do seem to get a large number of rarities and migrants and and some oddities that just that just compel you to come back and find them.

SPEAKER_03 8:34

Yeah, yeah. I I believe it's the number one area in the country for rarities uh and and birds that are vagrants that are out of their normal area. There's always vagrants and rarities and uncommon birds showing up. And often they're the first. The the numbers keep getting driven. When I moved here 27, 28 years ago, I think we our number was in the 400s, and now we're at five in the 560s of species that are recognized by the very conservative Texas uh Bird Records Committee. They they don't they're not easily persuaded that a species got here under its own volition. They they very suspect maybe it came in a cage, maybe it rode on a a ship or in a car or something. And they they have to be persuaded. So um um you know, California is number one for the in the country for birds, and that's because of all its pelagic birds, and it's also got a more liberal bird records committee. The the one in Texas is pr is pretty hard to persuade.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

Well, they're how how is it you persuade them that a bird did not come by shipping container or a car?

SPEAKER_03 9:56

I mean i how they they they they make up their own minds and uh they you know the the cattle eagret is ubiquitous down here now, but it came from Africa by way of Brazil and worked its way up here. I I think it got here under its own volition, with a bit of a help maybe from a storm across the Atlantic. And uh it's recognized. House sparrows are recognized, starlings are recognized. So um there there's a lot of factors. One is is when the birds have a breeding population, um it's hard to deny them, even if they are exotic. Uh so we've got some of the exotic birds that have been established here. Uh one one one of them is a bronze mannequin. It's in Houston. One of my favorite birds from Africa uh grew up around them. And so they they're they look at a whole lot of factors. So when when a bird uh shows up, they they examine the feathers to see if it's been in a ca kept in a cage. And cage birds do escape, and birds are fairly popular still as caged pets, and uh a lot of parrots uh species got here that that way. But um we have native parrots, uh but uh the the the in species that have been come in a cage are pretty obvious. They don't uh breed real well, they got in small numbers. The Rakers Committee has a tough job and they do it well.

SPEAKER_01 11:43

Well, good for them and good for you. Um I know among the as a raptor guy, um I came down and got the bad falcon and the roadside hawk, um that which were you know, I I I mean I'd see them both in Central America a number of times, but something about seeing them in Texas made it seem or seeing one in Texas made it seem that much more special.

SPEAKER_03 12:06

Yeah, the bat falc falcon was enormously popular. People just poured in. The we were full, we had no space for anyone because people were just coming out of the woodwork and and finding any way to get down here driving and flying and just to see the bat falcon. And it was here for a few months, and it was very, very popular. And then somehow Go ahead. Somehow that Bat Falcon just caught people's imagination. There's there's plenty of of of rare rarities like that, but that one just caught the imagination of birders.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

You know, and it's funny, once it does, I mean, I went a couple of times and you know, there there was that spot right in front of the park where it was hanging out, and you know, you there'd be 50, 60, 70 birders lined up with it looked like a concert. Um across the street waiting for it.

SPEAKER_03 13:03

Yeah, um, you know.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

Any idea what happened to it?

SPEAKER_03 13:08

I I think it just moved on. Just moved on. I think I I believe birds are programmed to push the boundaries, uh the geographic boundaries of where they live. And it's uh it's uh it's part of uh survival instinct, and the young birds do that typically, but sometimes uh older ones do. But typically it's it's the uh birds prior to breeding that push the boundaries and show up in unusual places.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Okay. All right. Well, let's let's talk about the Alamoyan a little bit. Now I'm I'm gonna share a touch of my experience. Um my son, who you met last time we were down there, we had lunch with Audrey, and it was just a spectacular time. Thank you. Um, but it was my son when I first got into birding that had watched the Netflix documentary called Birders. And that's what introduced me uh to your inn. And we're gonna talk about that documentary a little bit. Obviously, it's had an impact on what you do, um, or at least the number of people that know what you do. But for those who haven't been to the Alamo Inn, um, first of all, uh Keith is as an innkeeper is a great title. He's such a gracious, gracious host. Um, and the focus is on birders. You know, they've got a store there for birders, they've got gear for birders, he's got an ongoing chart showing what birds have been seeing in the last couple of days. He answers your questions, he introduces you to local guides. It's a it's an all-in-one birding spot. Um Keith, would you say the vast majority of your guests are bird enthusiasts?

SPEAKER_03 14:48

Yeah, they are. They are. Okay. We we we go out of our way to to f to always consider what birders are looking for, how we can make their stay better, and that's that that's how how we we we generate our services, and that's how we've grown. Uh we started off with four suites and we've got twenty-two now.

SPEAKER_01 15:14

Well, and I can tell you, having stayed in a number of them, they are fantastic and I enjoy it. Um and uh you know, twenty that's fantastic. And a number of times I've I have called and you've been booked. Congratulations to you. Um my idea for a policy, which is always to keep one room open for me, doesn't seem to have taken hold, but I'm always happy when a small businessman makes it. Now you opened back in 1999, is that correct? Yes, sir. Okay. Was it a birding a birding facility? What was it in 1998?

SPEAKER_03 15:49

In uh in 1998, we purchased an old rundown building that had apartments in it and was um uh probably doomed uh to to to uh being pulled down at to demolition at some point. It was going downhill. But we we liked the look of the building. Uh we rented some space in it for my wife's business, and the owner of the build building came to us and said, Listen, you've got to buy this building. And we said, Why? And he said, Well, my plans for it didn't work out, and it's probably gonna end up Section 8 housing, and that's that's the last stop on the road to demolition. Uh and it's true a lot of uh historic buildings down here have been uh d have gone through demolition. This was built in 1919 and it was the first uh building on on the square in the town of Alamo. We call it a city now, but it's it's a small town. And uh we just uh uh liked the look of it and uh thought we could do something with it, and it took us a year to uh to um really restore the building. You know, you you think about restoration and a lot of people know what that means, but not everyone. And we had a lot of great deal of trouble finding anyone who wanted to restore it. They w all the all everyone, all the construction guys wanted to uh remove all the interior and rebuild it. Well, that wasn't our idea. So quite a lot of the work we did ourselves, and then we'd get individuals to do specific tasks, and that was how we we we got the restoration done. And we that's we've completed four suites at the beginning. And um at that point I really had to figure out who is gonna stay here. And the the we thought of it as a a B and B concept uh w with a with breakfast, but we didn't know who was gonna stay here. And I did some research on B and Bs and there were a few around, but they come and go. It's not like it's XSL country that's full of them and they're very successful. Down here in the valley, they they don't survive. And uh we had to figure out who comes to the valley regularly, who needs accommodation, who who can we work with. And uh my thoughts turn to birders. I like birders, they're amazing people. Uh one of the best parts of being an innkeeper for birders is meeting the birders and talking to them, discovering uh how great they are and what they're doing and what they're seeing.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

So were were you a birder twenty-five years ago when you started this?

SPEAKER_03 18:50

Probably not. I I was an outdoor conservationist. Uh I probably had more interest in botany than in birding. But I became a birder.

SPEAKER_01 19:05

It was a good business move, by the way, and and hopefully it's added a lot of value to your personal life.

SPEAKER_03 19:10

Yeah, it it it really has. It was an essential business move, but it it it it made my life a lot richer.

SPEAKER_01 19:19

Oh, that's fantastic. Now, what what was the building when it was built in 1919? Do you do you have that historical information?

SPEAKER_03 19:27

Yes. It was an office building. Okay. So the first doctor had an office upstairs, uh, the land sales uh company had an office up there. There was uh a bank down on the first floor, which later became a drugstore, uh, and then there were various people who had offices. In the nineteen forties, a man from uh from uh uh Kansas City moved down here. He bought the building and he made uh some important changes to it. The upstairs offices he converted into apartments. It was post-war when he was doing the conversion and everyone was looking for accommodation, somewhere to live. They're returning people returning from uh Europe need needed places to live and and he made it made them into apartments. And that was good for us, because we we simply restored those apartments and they're they're pretty much intact. A lot of the nineteen forties features of the of the apartments are still there, like the little uh telephone shelf where the where the phone would go and a f a a folding down um ironing board, things like that.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

Oh, that's fantastic. Now, what about the the suites across the street that are independent of the main building? When when did those come?

SPEAKER_03 20:57

Well, we we started growing by word of mouth, and we were growing very rapidly, uh and some friends of ours had built some apartments also on the square. The only other accommodation on the square was these apartments. And they wanted to sell them. And uh we realized that we would wouldn't have another opportunity either to increase our size or our footprint um and or to buy them. Uh so so we bought them bef really before we needed to. And we moved in and lived there for 15, 17 years. Oh. Uh and and some of the apartments were rented out and the the tenants kept on living there. But gradually over time we continued growing and uh we needed all of them for the inn. So we kicked ourselves out and a couple of staff who were living there, and uh the the last. To the tenants, and uh it became part of the hotel. Again, they're suites, they're uh apartment suites, and we didn't change them, we just upgraded them, furnished them, uh stocked the kitchens with whatever kitchens need, and uh we started feeding the birds in the back. We've grown a lot of native plants there and changed the the grounds, the feel of the grounds, and made them bird friendly. So they're about a hundred-yard walk from the other historic building, and they're an uh an important part of the facility.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

Well, like a lot of birds, I'm a creature of habit. And the the first time I was fortunate enough to be a guest of yours, I stayed there um across the square, and so now that's where I always stay. As a matter of fact, I always take the same unit if I can, that first one up on the right hand side. I just love it. I love access to the back. You know, I go sit out there and it's peaceful and quiet in the back, and um, you know, there's a there are a lot of birds back there just to sit and watch. And uh it's go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 23:08

A gentle gentleman by the name of Bill Evans comes and stays with us regularly. Bill is is well known in the birding community as someone who has been pioneering methods to count birds at night. And uh Bill has uh a system in place now. They listing devices placed on a roof and and they go down to a computer w w with with a cord, uh micro cord, and they listen to birds migrating. Because the songbird migrants go at night, and as the technology is improving, uh we can actually identify the type of the species and and the uh the number of migrants. And uh uh this is very, very useful information. So Bill has got uh about twelve listening posts in the valley, uh all of them on schools except for one, and that's on our hotel, and it's on on the apartments, the garden suites across the street, just above where you like staying. And Bill comes here in the spring and the fall and uh sets up the the system, and they're making amazing progress with with listening to birds, identifying them and counting them at night.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

That is fantastic. That is fantastic. You know, I'm getting um, you know, the the technology is is changing so rapidly in in so many areas in so many ways. I was talking to somebody recently uh that does recordings of um owls, and they are able now to identify individual owls. So it's not just uh that they can hear great horned owls at night. They study the is is it a is it a sonogram? Is that the the sound wave that just sonograms and they can now identify them individually, and so if they listen to it again the next night, they can compare the sonograms and say, oh no, that was the Keith Owl, not the Scott Owl. And so it's just by species, it's by individual bird. I mean, the technology they're not gonna need birders for very much longer, you know, with with webcams and sonograms and and terrific photography. You and I are gonna be outdated.

SPEAKER_03 25:43

Yeah. Well, the sonograms are are all all done on the computer now. That is a program that handles all of that. And uh I guess with AI, the human intervention will be minimal.

SPEAKER_01 25:59

Yeah, it's um it truly is amazing the amount of information we can get. Although, in the end, I have to tell you, and and you know this, it's just about seeing the birds. Um I just got back a couple days ago. I was up in the Pacific Northwest for two weeks and working on my next book, which is both Birds and Mammals. And I was up in the um in the Samish Flats up in uh Fur Island area of uh northwest Washington, and there's a little spot there that's very well known for short-eared owls in the winter. It's uh it's these huge open farmlands, and then there's this one little corner where every year uh a half dozen or so short haireds come back and hang out. And um, I went there and I was among a number of photographers and burgers and just casual passerbys, but you're looking at over this vast flat farmlands, and then there's this block of 50 to 100 cars. But just Keith, I could have sat there for days and watched these short-eared owls. I watched them mob vault eagles, I watched them do battle with each other and with northern harriers. You know, as you know, shorties and and harriers hunt at the same time for the same um for the same prey on the same area. So they're always battling. And um when I came back, I did some research, and I did not know this. I did not know that I was trying to find out why short-eared owls would mob bald eagles. Um seems like a life expectancy uh shortener for me. Um it's not that they're going after the same prey. The bald eagles really aren't going after the small voles. But as it turns out, what it's the bald eagles as they fly across the fields, they scare the hell out of all the prey, and they all go into hiding. And it's a limited amount of time that the short ears get to hunt, right? They just hunt at dust.

SPEAKER_02 28:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:01

Um, and so if the bald eagles scare everybody away for 20 minutes, they've lost a third or a quarter of their hunting time. So they try to get them out of there. And I got to witness that. I watched a short-eared owl. I mean, we've all seen crows mob everybody and mixed flocks mob everybody. Yeah. But to watch a short-eared owl mob a bald eagle, um, no amount of technology can replace that. Um they just they just can't do it. Um, but so let's let's talk about the Netflix documentary Birders. Uh, that's how I was introduced to you. I have to believe that's how a number of your guests first met you and and heard about you indiscertively so. But tell us about that. How did that come about? Um, is it still available? Can the can the viewers today watch it?

SPEAKER_03 28:53

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we we we get we get we always asked people how they found out about us, and that that's an important way that people discover that we're here. It it it was very interesting. Um I got a call some years ago just out of the blue from a young lady and she said, Hey, I want to come and talk to you. And of course I said, What what do you want to talk about? Oh, uh about shooting um uh making a documentary uh on birds and the water. So I said, Well, what do you have in mind? She said, Nothing. I know nothing about it. I need someone to help me. And I said, Well, okay. And and we arranged a time to meet. And then she puts some a tape recorder in the middle of the table and says, Do you mind if I record this? And I said, Well, I I guess not. Uh I said, Who's providing the license fee? Who's financing this? And she said, Well, that's confidential. Now, we're we're right on the border. Uh there's swarms of FBI and federal agents, and they have been for decades here. We're trying to keep the the cartels out of the US, and this is one area where they could funnel their their business and their uh culture in. And uh what's going through my mind is wow, are the cartels getting into birding? Uh that's a little scary. But she said, Don't worry. Uh I said, so where are you from? She said, Well, Mexico City. I said, Oh. She said, Don't worry, it's a legitimate organization that's paying for this. You don't have to worry. So I put my fears aside and we talked for about three hours. And uh I outlined a concept. I said, If if if if I was doing this, here's what I would do. And we talked about the Texas border region, and we talked about Mexico, we talked about land migrants that funnel through Veracruz, we talked about people. Uh I gave her a bunch of names of people to to talk to, and uh I said, Do you want phone numbers? Oh no, no, we can get that. Well uh my f my fears were not w well rested at that point, but uh but I I just took a risk and she said, Thank you very much, and she left. A year later I got a phone call from her and she said, We're back in town, we're ready to shoot. And uh they come with a whole crew, like um there were eight people. Uh, you know, these days you see typically people who shoot video, it's one person or two people. They had a crew of eight, uh old style uh movie cameras on the shoulder, video cam video cameras on the shoulder, um lots of um mics everywhere, mics on booms, and um they they came to the in and they talked to me for about an hour and a half, and there's about 30 seconds in the in in the uh documentary at the end. But they were very kind. They they did what they said. Um I'm in the credits, we the end got a good uh they got some visuals of the end, good mention, and it's been phenomenal for us. So the documentary is called Birders, B-E-R-B-I-R-D-E-R-S, Birders. And it it's a phenomenal documentary, very well made by this very professional company out of Mexico City, and the people providing the license fee were Netflix. And so it's on Netflix. Uh unfortunately, they haven't followed up with birders. They haven't made any more documentaries like that, but this one is brilliant. It lasts an hour, and if you haven't seen it, you will love it. It's a good introduction to the the valley, and um it really uh has the feel of what it's like to bird here.

SPEAKER_01 33:38

Well, uh I'll tell you, I I loved it. Um I watched it right when I started my birding career, which is only six years now, and um absolutely loved it, and that is how I found you. And uh I'm so grateful and thankful that I have, by the way. Um I want to share this, and I hope I'm not telling tales out of school, and then we'll talk about some other stuff. But the very first time that I went down and stayed with Keith, you know, he was so gracious and kind, and uh it's a small thing, but I think small things are important. He had some bottled waters on the counter and and I was getting ready to go out. I said, Oh, you know, how much are these? I want to grab a handful before I go. He goes, Oh, my goodness, no, those are those are for my guests. And um, I just thought that was so sweet and so kind. And, you know, to your point about taking care of people, and and I'm not uh this next story, I I hope you don't mind that I tell. Uh, but I was coming in one night, um, and I was coming in late, and uh the plane was delayed, and and um, and so I knew the rent a car place was gonna be a hassle. And I didn't want anyway, I called Keith to tell him what was going on. And again, you know, he's a small innkeeper. He's not a 24-hour a day. Uh he's got other things to do in his life. And Keith said, Don't worry about a thing. Here's my number at home. You call me when you land, and I'll come pick you up and get you to the inn. And it worked out otherwise that I didn't need to do that, but I still remember that, Keith. And I think it was so gracious and so kind. And honestly, I think it speaks to the way that you run the inn. Um, and I I'm just uh I cannot compliment you enough on uh on what you do and the way in which you do it. Now you've got a you've got a store there. Um tell us about the store and and the and the uh scorecard, the the uh grease board where you keep track of what's coming on. So tell people what that's like.

SPEAKER_03 35:27

Well, uh birders like love t-shirts and hats. So our store's got plenty of those. We used to sell lots and lots of books. We still offer books for sale, the but the volume we sell is is a lot lower now. That's just technology. Uh you can get your field guide on your phone, and it's far more efficient and easier to work with. So um we've still got books there, but we don't sell as many. Uh we've got uh other things that birders like. We're always looking for things that they like, and things to take home for the grandkids or the kids. Uh uh the store is just just a part of the experience. And it it's it's in the dining room, off the dining room, so when you're eating breakfast, you can look at the store and browse and self-serve. You can take whatever you want and you just let us know. We put it on your bill or you leave some cash for it.

SPEAKER_01 36:24

Uh, and I gotta tell you, again, uh I have to stop you. I love that. Having having taken advantage of that a number of times myself, um, I just love the idea of somebody trusting their their clients or guests or visitors, however you want to define them. Um, that, you know, if you grab a yogurt, that you know, you'll leave a couple of bucks for the yogurt or notify you next time you see you. I it just all adds to the experience. And um and it just makes uh for an amazing experience. And and and I want to throw out because I think this is important. I do plan on somewhere down the road this year having a gentleman named Tony Batiste. Do you know Tony? No, Tony runs a an uh bed and breakfast that only has two rooms, and he's also got he's got another.

SPEAKER_03 37:09

Oh, in Southeast uh Arizona? Yes, yes, right, right. Yeah, I know of him.

SPEAKER_01 37:15

You and Tony are cut from the same cloth. And and first of all, both of you married up. Um and so that is a positive thing. But both of you were gracious. You you you have a 99% birding um clientele and and cater to that. Both of you bird. Uh Tony came to birding late in life as well. And those are the little spots to me that make birding such a spectacular hobby is to find people around the country that you look forward to seeing as much as you do the birds. You know, the times that I've been down to see you. I mean, I was telling my son who produces this show, Justin, who Justin and I were down, I don't remember, about October or November to see you. Yeah. Um, we were there for something else. To tell you how much I enjoy Keith's company, my son and I drove three and a half hours each way to see Keith for lunch, and then turned around and came back. We didn't have time to stay, but we just we had an an hour where we could see him at that little Mexican restaurant across the street from you that's so tasty.

SPEAKER_03 38:20

Yes, uh, El Dorado. And then that was amazing. I I I couldn't believe I thought you must have an ulterior motive to drive that far just for lunch in Mission. No, just wanted and great lunch.

SPEAKER_01 38:33

Yeah, it was with turbulence. Just wanted to say hi and got to meet your wife, which was fantastic. But my son wanted me to tell you hello because he so enjoyed uh the time that we spent together.

SPEAKER_03 38:44

And and these are Justin's Justin is great, great guy.

SPEAKER_01 38:49

That's very kind of you, thank you. And and we will certainly be back. Um, you know, it's it is uh and but but those are the things that make this world, this birding world, um, so tremendous and so valuable. I I I imagine it extends to many hobbies where you have enthusiasts, you know, that that the people within that network are are are great people and welcoming and open-armed and and um it just it just makes it all easier. I mean, the first couple times I went down there, I had trouble telling birds from squirrels, you know. It's it was it was and Keith pretended that that was normal and was kind and gracious. And um and you hooked me up with a guide. Now that's one of the things you do. You know a lot of the guides in the area, right?

SPEAKER_03 39:39

Yeah, yeah. Unfortunately, there's not enough guides in the area. And so when there's not enough of something, the price goes up. It's uh getting expensive to have guides. But there's there's other ways of seeing the birds. You don't have to have a guide, but it's it's always nice and it's always helpful, and we we can hook people up with guides. Um we've during COVID, we we lost a lot of business. In fact, we spent uh six weeks just uh doing cancellations because most people who come here make advanced reservations up to 14 months ahead. Um and we didn't we had a guide on staff at that time, we don't anymore, but uh we just wondered, you know, what should we do? How can we fill our time? How can how can we we didn't let anyone go. We we kept all the staff on. What what should we have the guide do? And we we decided to have her go out and video birds and the area, and we started a a website called birdersontherad.com. And it's it's it's our view of the valley and valley birding of Texas. We've got Michigan's Southeast Arizona, and then we employ other guides. So we've got Central America, South America, some on Africa, some on Europe. It's a great site. We carry Scott's podcast there. We're going to very kind. You're you're welcome. Uh wouldn't wouldn't miss it. And I've I've seen every one of your podcasts, as I said, they're just incredible. Uh really mind opening. We're going to start a podcast just on on birding and people who are um not well known but are having uh a big influence on birding, and um check that out. Uh you it's free or you can or you can pay a subscription if you want to, birdersontheroad.com.

SPEAKER_01 41:39

Yeah, please check that out. I'll throw the URL up on the screen if you're watching on YouTube. Um and uh it is it is well worth watching, not just because it carries uh naturally Scott, but overall it's spectacular. Um Keith, what what do people do when they're not birding down there? When you have guests? I mean, I know that most of us who go on birding trips are pretty much dawn to dusk birding, but if we do take a little bit of a break from that, what does the area have to offer?

SPEAKER_03 42:12

Area is pretty incredible. Firstly, it's a small area, 40 miles by 140 miles. It's a floodplain, the floodplain of the Rio Grande, that no longer floods because we've dammed it and used all the water. But it's the fifth largest river in the country. It rises in Colorado, flows all the way down to the Gulf here. So the floodplain has has a long has had a long history. Uh hooping cranes used to uh winter on the floodplain down here. They don't anymore. They they winter in Aranzas Pass, where they also used to winter. But the flood floodplain is geographically as I mentioned, a semi-desert, but it's tropical, a tropical semi-desert. So we get a lot of tropical birds up here. So the birding is phenomenal. So you're right, people spend a lot of their time birding. But we've discovered that most birders are interested in other things. Uh the flora, the fauna, uh, the the mammals, the the uh lizards, the snakes, and the people, the culture of the people, the food. So we're ninety percent Hispanic here, uh and we've got a lot of uh uh influence from Mexico. Most of our population is from Mexico originally, may have may be twenty generations back, uh when when this was a part of Mexico, or they may be very recent. Uh just come over in the last few years. And so we've we've got true Mexican food, we've got We've got Tex Mex, we've got American food, it's a fusion of all these things. And birders are active people. They need food and they love their food. And so exploring the restaurants is a big deal. There's phenomenal museums, there's art galleries, and it's all got this cultural milieu of Mexico and Texas. And it's it's a phenomenal place to explore. The the valley has has three segments to it. So there's the the coastal segment, South Padre Island. Everyone's heard of South Padre Island, but it's a great place to bird. But it's also fun to go there and visit. And then the middle of the valley is where we're located. And it's it's the the best uh general birding that's unique to this area, this the specialties. And then west of us up to Falcon Dam, there's more it's more semi-desert, and you get more of the desert birds. Uh lots of roadrunners, for example. Everyone wants to see a roadrunner if they haven't. Uh that's what the Europeans like to see. And uh some of the other desert birds, periloxia and things like that, uh, red-billed pigeons, wild Muscovy ducks. Uh so uh I keep coming back to the birds because that's the the central uh interest, but there's all these things around it. And uh uh w right across the street from us is El Dorado restaurant. They have Tex-Mex and Mexican food and American, and down near one of the birding spots, just there, and the grande, there's a place called Nana's, and uh that's more like uh true Mexican food, although some Tex-Mex has crept in there. And the meeting the people, uh most of the people speak English, but they also speak Spanish. And most of the people uh love their f their their culture and their family life, and it's a phenomenal place to visit.

SPEAKER_01 46:15

Okay, well, fantastic. Now, I'm a really perceptive guy, and so I believe it's fair for me to say that you are not Mexican. Um you you came here from Africa, South Africa?

SPEAKER_03 46:34

Yeah, South Africa is where I was raised, and uh phenomenal birds in Southern Africa. You know, America's got probably about 900 uh regular species. Uh Southern Africa's got about a thousand, very comparable, but the b the birds are different. Uh North America was in the Ice Age, so what, 10,000 years ago, so there's a lot of uh development change uh uh uh in in the birds, a lot of evolution has been taking place in them. In Africa, it's the most stable continent. It's been consistently uh climate-wise stable for most of it for for for just tens of thousands of years. So the birds there have uh evolved over a much longer period. So there's some some remarkable differences. The birds there tend to be um very colorful, very unique songs, uh they tend to be big and bold. And um I came to North America and it was a battle to learn the local birds because I was used to birds that were simpler to learn. But we gr I grew up on a in uh grassland on a farm in grassland, a grassland area that's now covered by sugarcane, which is a story of the world. But the the farm, we had a lot of fruit trees, my mother market gardened, uh, vegetables and and and flowers for the florists. It was just an oasis for birds. And we grew up with amazing birds all around us. Every the moment you walked outside, it was just birds singing and birds eating fruit and birds uh nesting and doing what they do. It was just a credible place to grow up. Do you go back? Yeah, we do. We do. Uh Africa like the valley here, like so many parts of the world, uh is changing. Uh humans are are changing the world. So uh humans and the culture of humans is where we need to go to to conserve our birds and uh all all of nature. Uh the the if the world's a network, humans are at the center and having the pulling the most strings and having the most effect on the world. And birds are right alongside humans. They're ubiquitous, they're everywhere, they probably live in a lot more areas of the world than humans regularly uh uh ha uh live in. And um uh I think um birds are alongside humans, they they're many of the species are adapting to humans. We've seen this right in the valley here. A lot of species that were um uh d lived uh in the reserves and in in the very uh rural areas, as the valley has become uh uh urbanized. We've now got when I was here in 1967 as an exchange student, and we're about a population about 90,000 in the valley, and we're at a million and a half today. And on the other side of the river in Mexico, there's two and a half million, so uh th it's becoming a highly urban environment, not uh collection of vegetable farms like it used to be. And so what we're seeing is birds adjusting to humans uh and um uh to urban living. Now they can't all adjust. Some are adjusting and some are not.

SPEAKER_01 50:42

And which are the ones that are most successful in the adjustments?

SPEAKER_03 50:48

It it's it's interesting. Uh we have at uh Kintemazatlan, which is one uh a birding hotspot in MacAllen, they it's uh it's run by the city and they have an urban ecologist, uh John Brush, and uh he's studying uh that. Uh and um we just see around us birds have adjusted well. So one of them is a Muscovy duck. It if if you've got water, you've got Muscovy ducks. They no longer wild a lot of them aren't, and they become feral and they look different. Um but uh they're they're adjusting. Another is uh black-bellied whistling ducks, which have expanded their range right into breeding range right into Oklahoma, uh and right across the south. Um some birds have difficulty adjusting, chachilacas and b and green jays have difficulty, but the clay-colored robin in the late nineties was a rarity here. It was considered uncommon or rare, and you'd have to go to a a rural cemetery to find one, and they've they've taken up urban living, and they they're in all the urban gardens and they nest uh uh right across the the urban areas now.

SPEAKER_01 52:14

You know there's I'm surprised you would say the green jays are struggling. Do you you think of corbids as usually being able to overcome almost any obstacle? What what what do you think is causing them to struggle?

SPEAKER_03 52:28

They're struggling with becoming urbanized.

SPEAKER_01 52:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 52:32

Uh they're not their survival is not at risk um at all. Uh because they've they've expanded their strategy. They they like quiet rural areas with thick brush. And humanity clears out the brush, clears out the dead trees, clears out everything. There's no ground cover in gardens. And very few gardens have ground cover, and a lot of birds need that. So the Green Jay and and the Chachalaco for that matter, just the urban gardens are not suitable for them. Okay. Uh but the Green Jay is very adaptable, and they've they're expanding their range throughout the ranch country. So uh ranch ranches typically now have, you know, for a long time they've had water. Uh the valley used to be surrounded by a desert. It was called the Wild Horse Desert, and the King Ranch, the King bought that up for pennies on the dollar because it was worthless. He he put in wells and that changed the whole thing. And you drive now from the valley to Corpus Christi through the King Ranch, and it's all full of trees, and uh um so the the Green Jays have moved into areas like that that's become suitable for them. Uh parrots from uh Mexico ha moved in here, started moving in here with the people after 1900 as this area got settled, and we've got um red-crowned parrots, possibly more here than in Mexico now, and uh green parakeets, huge flocks of them.

SPEAKER_01 54:18

And they're fun to see. I look for them every time.

SPEAKER_03 54:20

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:21

Keith, I cannot believe we've already chewed up an hour. This has been an absolute pleasure, um, as it always is to talk to you. So thank you. Um I'm gonna throw my email up here if you're listening and not watching. It's Scott at naturalisc.com. Uh any questions you have, any follow-ups to this, send them to me. If you've got questions for Keith, send them to me, and I'll I'll be happy to get them to him. Keith, before I let you go, and it's painful to do so, but before I let you go, I had asked if you would recommend a book uh to the audience, something you think they would enjoy and maybe benefit by. So uh please go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 55:01

Thank you, Scott. Uh, this is a book that I'm recommending. Let's get it in view. It's by uh an ornithologist, but don't let that put you off. It's called The Nesting Birds of a Tropical Frontier by Tim Brush. He's retired now, but he was an ornithologist at the local university for many years. It's about the lower Rio Grande Valley of Texas, and it's more than just the nesting birds of a tropical frontier. He really describes the valley well. It is out-of-print, but you can still find it on Amazon and uh probably ABOOX and other places that deal with out-of-print books. It's just an excellent, excellent introduction. Uh there's a chapter on habitats and birds of the valley, and it gives you a really good introduction to this area. Well, fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 55:57

That's I will look for it. And I imagine I might be able to thumb through a copy next time I visit, right?

SPEAKER_03 56:03

Yeah, I'll I'll give you one. There you go.

SPEAKER_01 56:06

There you go. Hey, I appreciate everybody who's taken the time to listen and watch. I hope you've been as fascinated with my conversation with Keith as I have been. And I will tell you that all conversations with Keith are this fascinating. So if you get a chance to head down to Alamo, make sure that you visit. If you are watching on YouTube, do me a favor, reach over and hit subscribe. There's no cost to it, there's nothing there. It's just every time you do that, YouTube pushes our uh podcasts out to more people. And the more people that see it, I think the better it is for the world. Not because it's my podcast, but because of the fascinating guests that I have. Um, and then the more guests we're able to bring back on board. Keith, it has been an honor and privilege to have you on board today. I appreciate it. I'm glad you're feeling better. And please tell your lovely bride that Justin and I say hello, and we look forward to seeing both of you very soon. And as I as I wrap up every show, I do the same thing. I recommend to our guests get outside, back porch, backyard, local patch, or head on down to Alamo and see the spectacular 560 birds that are out there. But when you're doing that, make sure that you stay safe and stay curious. Keith, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 57:21

Thank you, Scott. Thank you. You've been listening to Naturally Scott with Scott Harris. Naturally Scott is hosted by Scott Harris, produced by Justin Harris, and edited by Frank Sierra. Follow us on our YouTube channel at Naturally Scott and Instagram at Naturally Scott Harris. If this conversation resonated with you, please follow the show, leave a review, and share it with someone who needs to hear it. Naturally Scott thanks you for viewing and listening to this podcast.