The Seeing Sideways Podcast
We're a podcast about regular (ish) people going through the regular highs and lows about life right alongside with you. We '' share tools, resources and relatable stories to help you navigate this maze or mess called... life.
The Seeing Sideways Podcast
The MILLENNIAL BURNOUT Crisis (Part 2)
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PART DEUX of the epic discussion on the topical...er..topic on why Millennials are feeling the burn and just have had it. But is it just Millennials? What about Gen Z? Is there more going on? Join Kyle and Jessica as they continue their discussion...rant...therapy session on why everyone these days is taking a step back, looking around them and going...what the fuck?
Hello, hello, hello, everybody. Welcome back to the Seeing Sideways Podcast. We are the podcast that shares tools, resources, and relatable stories to help you navigate this maze or mess we call life. My name is Kyle, and I'm here with my co-host Jessica.
SPEAKER_02Hello.
SPEAKER_00Jessica, what is up, man? Happy Sunday.
SPEAKER_02Happy Sunday. Happy Sunday.
SPEAKER_00All right. Are you ready to talk more some more shit today?
SPEAKER_02I mean, I'm always ready to talk shit. I'm I'm really good at talking. I'm not really good at shutting up.
SPEAKER_00I think uh I think that's why most people start podcasts, right? When they just you know they they just talk too much, right? So you might as well record it, you know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, might as well feel like somebody's listening to you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, man, right on. So we are okay, so we're we're gonna get into another fun, whimsical, lively, lighthearted discussion about why our generation is crashing and burning. So I am very excited to talk about that, but I want to expand the conversation um a little bit too. So just to recap, um, on the last episode, we talked about um burnout, uh, especially burnout in the millennial demographic uh or generation. Uh Jessica and I are millennials, um, and we are firmly, you know, we're firmly in it. We're in the shit, as people say. And um we just we were talking about how like yeah, we just seem to be experiencing this existential crisis. Um, us, our peers, uh, we're seeing it on social media, we're seeing it exasperated through um everybody in this age demographic that everyone is just feeling a bit tired, exhausted, burnt out, lost. Um, people are losing purpose in life.
SPEAKER_02Overstimulated. Don't forget, overstimulated.
SPEAKER_00100%. A lot of that caused by just this information overload that's happening. Um, we're exposed to everybody's lives, we're comparing ourselves to other people that maybe we perceive are more successful or doing life better than us, and all of that stuff. And you know, it's it's it's a bit of a system overload, right? So, and I think it's fascinating, and we're all talking about it. And I think our our generation, the millennials, we are the um, you know, we seem to be the most vocal proponents of this uh ideology, so to speak. That there's that we're all just tired. We're all just we're sick and tired, and we're trying to figure out which way is up, you know. And um I remember I watched a uh a video on Insta of some woman, she was speaking on this very thing. Um a millennial herself, she says something like, um, she's like, you know, you know, millennial everyone thinks we millennials were complaining, and and people wonder why we're all just sick and tired and burnt out, and we all got want to we all want to go retire on a farm and make sourdough for a living. Right, you know, right? Um, I always I thought that video was really funny, but it's so true. It's like I feel like the different degrees we're all just like we we all just want to just like pack up our bags and just get the fuck out, right, Jess?
SPEAKER_02Like it is just like yeah, I want to escape of so much of the stuff. I will if I have to get up every day and now I have to like you know wake up at at dawn and go like feed and milk the cow and collect the eggs. And I mean, I'm not gonna be the one to go out and kill the chicken, but go butcher the chicken for me and I'll hook food up. That that life versus what I got going on right now. I'm like, I don't even know what the fuck I'm doing and why the fuck I'm doing it. I just do it things at this point.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think that very aptly sums up how a lot of us feel. I don't know what I'm doing, I'm just doing it. Yeah, I don't know what the purpose is of what I'm doing, you know? And I think we're finally becoming self-aware of it, you know. You can I feel like you can go on autopilot, you you only go on autopilot for so long before you realize before you ask yourself, wait, where am I going? Right. So like I'm I'm just driving in this endless loop and this endless uh I'm doing donuts in my driveway for right, right, you know. So it's kind of a fascinating uh crisis, but yeah, you know, and and I I think the piggyback on that I ideal, right? Like, is that um so in the last episode we talked a lot about how our careers are burning us out and we're losing purpose in our careers, and there seems to be an abundance of people that are actually doing just that. We joked about it, but there's a lot of people that are doing just that, they are just picking up their bags and just leaving, they're quitting their jobs, right? And um the other day I went on YouTube and I just searched and I quit my six-figure job, and so many videos popped up of people that were like, I quit my perfect high-paying job. I I quit, I quit, I quit, I quit, I quit. So many people are quitting their jobs, not just their jobs, but high-paying jobs with good health care and all this stuff. They are walking away from good money because they are just sick and tired and burnt out, man. And they just lost their reason for doing it. Yes, we're all working for money, but then you get to this point where like, all right, I know I need money to live, but am I living? You know what I'm saying? Like, is that make sense, Jess?
SPEAKER_02No, it makes total you. I just had this visual of like flashing back just like two years ago. It was right after you left the company that we both worked at, and like you quit, so you know, shit was going down. It was horrible, awful, toxic. But you're like, ah, I'm out, and I was like, Okay, might still have to be a leader. And I don't I'm not the type of person who tries to put lipstick on a pig. Yeah, I call a pig a pig. Okay. And so I can remember walking into this meeting shortly after you left because you left a big hole in everybody, and I'm like, okay, and everybody's like, okay, how do we realign when everything is falling apart? And I had this very candid conversation with them, and and my analogy was like, hey guys, it's rough out there, you know, it is, it is what it is. Here's the things that you can do to like make it work. Keep I was like, we're basically in the midst of a war, and unfortunately, we are the front line. And so I'm fighting to get you guys the best armor and the best weaponry. Like I I was having a fucking military conversation, yeah, with a team of a with a team of accountants, you know, it's like what the hell is going on here? But yeah, that's how it felt. Like, do you agree? You were in that environment because you were like, fuck the front lines, Kyle's out.
SPEAKER_00Listen, that was the very reason I left because uh listen, I'm not built to fight in a war, man. I'm telling you, like I I I am not, it's I'm not it, I'm not the one to be fighting, you know. I'm not a fighter, you know. And um, it was yeah, what war is chaotic, right? That's the very nature of war. And I'm sorry, I don't thrive in chaos. Some people can, you know, or some people think they can thrive in chaos, but it's not me. I need some type of order and grounding. And when I don't have that, when I feel like I don't have any footing on me, I I can't function. I just can't. I need some type of order. So the chaos of that battleground is very much why I left.
SPEAKER_02And it was because we were getting into leadership positions to tie it back to what you were saying, the high earners, right? Those are the people that are in leadership type positions, right?
SPEAKER_00Generally, 100%, yes, in general.
SPEAKER_02And but it just think of what I just said. Like I had gotten, I got to like a very mid-level manager, and I'm having to like give speeches as if I'm like the general of a war.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02To do day-to-day functions for fucking accounting.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02But but the environment in which some of this stuff is structured, a lot of corporate corporate America is structured that you're putting on your, you know, your your your pseudo armor and you're walking into the day. And and depending on what level you're at, you know, you've got the and I can't give good uh military analogies, right? Because I wasn't in the military. But you've got your grunts that are out there. You like point and shoot, you go do this. All right, you did that, all right, you go do this, you know, and then as you go up the chain, you go up the chain. Um, but it also becomes more competitive.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I agree.
SPEAKER_02And and you know, shit flows downhill. So the people at the top, they have a lot of pressure, like a lot of pressure coming from different avenues, and it just pushes down and pushes down and pushes down and pushes down. I remember you making that analogy just like a month or two ago.
SPEAKER_00Sure, 100%. And I think it's easy. Look, it's easy for us to um, you know, when you're in the workplace, there's a hierarchy like you're just uh mentioning, right? I think it's very easy for the people below to look at the people above and say, they're failing us, they don't get it, they don't they don't understand why they're coming down on me so hard. But you always have to remember that there is always someone above that's writing down on the people below, right? So you have a manager, that manager is getting pressure from his manager, his or her manager, and that manager is getting pressure from the director, executive, the director, the director's getting pressure from the CEO, you know, the CEO is trying to keep the company afloat because of the shareholders, the they've got to answer to the shareholders, the board of directors, yeah. Correct, correct. There's so there is, I I think, and I think honestly, that is something that's that that that's a that's a point of view that's always important for us to keep in mind. Because again, it's easy to say, oh, my boss is my boss sucks. I hate my boss. And don't get me wrong, they are plenty of bad bosses out there, but a lot of times it just doesn't come out of nowhere. Your boss is coming down on you for a reason, most likely because they're being there, they are there's pressure being put on them, and so when there's pressure put on them, then they gotta put a pressure on you, and then it's it's a constant stream. The top, the CEO, you know, of any company, the boss of any company's gotta put pressure and keep there's there's a lot of pressure on everybody, and there are different types of pressures. So I always tried to keep that perspective. Um, even even today, I always try to keep that perspective um in my workplace job. You know, whenever I feel frustrated with um my manager or or my you know, the person I report to, I always say, you know, Kyle, you know what that side of the fence looks like, and you know that they're not just doing it for no reason, that there's there's again, there's a hierarchy of pressure that is that that that that that's occurring here. Okay. But at the end of the day, you know, these are the facts. Um people are not gonna work for an asshole, you know, right? Not for they're not gonna work for an asshole alone.
SPEAKER_02And the way you treat people they're not gonna work happily for an asshole.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know, like I I I you know the term that I coined, Jess, that I've that I'm very proud of. And I don't know, I'm gonna be I'm gonna be very sad if if someone else created created this term instead of me. But I I've already once I'll say this, but the expression pressure makes diamonds, right? We all love to tout that uh expression pressure makes diamonds. But here's the thing about diamonds diamonds are pointy and prickly, you know?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so pressure on a diamond.
SPEAKER_00There you go. You will cut your ass on a diamond. So pressure makes tough people, it also makes pointy and prickly people that'll cut your ass. You know what I'm saying? So um, I would much rather be a smooth spherical thing, your object, or you know, like that. I don't I don't know what to, you know, like a gem. All right, call it like a gem, call that this gems tend to be smooth and spherical, right? So um, but we like to we love that expression, pressure makes diamonds, and everyone wants to be a diamond. But I don't know, I just always thought of that, you know, because that's what happens with pressure. You put too much pressure on people. You better work harder for me, you better work more hours, you better do this, you better do that. You better, you know, you better bend your back and break your back for me. Uh, if you want to keep your job and you want to get this promotion and you want this and that and the third, so you are you know, you're abusing these people and um and and and psychologically, you know uh mind fucking them is essentially thinking, I gotta I've gotta break my back in order for good results to happen.
SPEAKER_02And then they break their back and no good results come.
SPEAKER_00And then no good results come, and then and then you're just left with a broken back and nothing, right?
SPEAKER_02And so we have to have Trent come back on just because he's somebody who broke his back, and I watched, and he got a job um performance review that was meets expectations.
SPEAKER_00Oh man.
SPEAKER_02And that became just got that became his theme phrase for everything that he did that went above and beyond, you know, maybe like, oh, but you know, here I am, just sure it meets expectations type of manager. He's definitely not a meets expectation uh type of manager, but uh yeah, we have all this pressure on us to and and and we bust our asses to get some type of like recognition of like, yeah, you've made it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02To be told we meet expectations, and even though you worked, you know, three hours extra a day, most days of the week for the whole year, we're gonna give you a two and a half percent raise. Because that's what we expect.
SPEAKER_00Congrat congratulations, and here you are with the broken back. And what your two is your two percent raise gonna heal your back? You know what I'm saying? Right. Like it's um you're already you're already psychologically broken at that point. So and and then you ask yourself that existential question of what did I do this for?
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00What did I sacrifice my mental well-being for, or my physical well-being for that matter? I mean, it all comes hand in hand, right? If you're not well mentally, you're not well physically.
SPEAKER_02So 100%. And and so to put the training back on the tracks a little bit, because you know us, we'll squirrel away. Um the the Gen Z, the Gen Zers have been watching us and are pretty much like fuck that. So what I understand is that like you get, you know, like uh my kids watched me lose a job recently for speaking up for myself and not in a bad way. Uh, but something that I'm required to ethically with my license.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um and they also watched me spend a lot of years putting a lot of time, effort, and energy where I couldn't give it to them because I was giving it to work prior to that happening, and they're like, fuck that. Like I've watched you do put so much like heart and soul and energy and you know, sacrifice into this, and for that to happen, why why would I do that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, what's the what for what benefit, for what end? I like how you said that. So they're watching you, and you again, and you see, you have you have two Gen Z daughters, right? So yeah, um, so who are observing you, they're taking notes, and I think that's and I think and I and for the record, I think that's kind of what any generation does, right? Um, we observe the generation before we we observe our parents, you know, um, and we observe the behaviors, and we start to make decisions on how we want to uh do we want to carry on these behaviors, do you do we want to form our own path, you know? And um I think every generation has done that, but and I want to talk about Gen Z, you know, and I want I want to hone in on Gen Z um uh uh in relation to this whole burnout crisis, but just to kind of put a cap, so to speak, on millennials, uh do you think it's fair to say or fair to safe to say, Jess, that um millennials are we kind of are the first generation that's looking at things as established and being like, you know, just like you said with with you know Gen Z looking at us, I think we're the ones that are that we're the ones that I kind of like put the needle on the record plate or like wait, hold on a second. Wait a minute. This yeah, like hold on. Pop the breaks, pop the breaks. This is how this is how life is supposed to be, right? You know, I I think we are uh you I think you said the word in the last episode, pioneers of that uh ideology, right?
SPEAKER_02So some of us, yes. I will say some of us. I think I think there's like this transitionary period that's kind of going on. So part of the millennial generation is paying attention and hearing one thing and part are paying attention and hearing something else. Um but but more of the Gen Z generation is like hearing what our part, because we're like, wait a minute, you know, because I mean I don't know about you, but I work with some people. Um I I'm a hard worker. I will say that. I will I will toot my own horn on that. I am a hard worker. You are I'm I'm not maybe not the best worker in the world or whatever, but that's because I had to put some guardrails in because I will kill myself to get the work done.
SPEAKER_00Also, who is the best worker in the world?
SPEAKER_02Well, there are some people who identify as they're like the best worker, and so and those that's what I'm saying. Like our generation has a a healthy mix of those two. And I feel I feel like for me, it's harder for me because like I see where the people on the other side of our generation come from because I was brainwashed into that mentality. And so I'm a I'm awake, but when it it comes from your roots from a young age to understand that, it's really hard to break away from that. So I'm like torn and in the middle, right? Because we we do have a lot of people, our peers, people that we love and adore are related to, you know, not by blood, by bond, whatever, you know, um, that think way differently than we do. And so those people kind of like pull us back a little bit. And I feel like there's more people in like my children's generation who are like that's toxic. Like that, I I don't love the term like cancel culture and toxic, but sometimes fuck call a spade a spade.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, sometimes you have to.
SPEAKER_02Because oh, because you worked 16 hours yesterday and I worked my required 10, but you're getting more work done than me. But I have a better like work life balance. And then like now, now here we are, we're at an impasse. Like, who's gonna win there? You know, and it's all again seeing sideways, it's it's the perspective of it. Uh, but Gen Z has the gift of more people that see things there, the the the like we should have boundaries, this shouldn't be like where I have to put my soul energy into that type of thing. They have more of those personalities than we do on ours. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_00Yes, yes. And it's because and like you said, it's because they're seeing us complain about it, right? For lack of a better term.
SPEAKER_02They're watching us suffer unnecessarily, in their opinion.
SPEAKER_00Well, yes, because and because us, we observed our again, we observe our parents, right? But our parents came from a generation where you I think the general ideology was tough it out. You think that's safe to say? Like our parents, our parents came from yeah, our parents came from a tough it out generation, you know, and um, and listen no generation has it easy, okay? Like none, like every generation goes through their shit. Wars, our parents went through Vietnam, you know, there there was there was a lot of shit our parents went through too. Uh, racial divide and inequality. I mean, you know, these are not small things, right?
SPEAKER_02Oh no, they went through a whole shit show of shit too. Yes, they did.
SPEAKER_00But they did, but those very things that I that I mentioned, you know, what I think was the outcome of that cultural tension that they were born into was tough it out, right? Um, you have to you have to be tough in order to survive this very brutal world you're into. So they were taught be tough, be a diamond, you know. You if because if not, you're gonna break, you know. Be tough, be tough, be tough, be tough. And I think that's what they were trying to, they're trying to impart onto us that you got to that you have to uh that you have to do to survive this world. Now, and I think for us, our generation, we are so we're doing that, you know, or we were on track of being tough, being tough, being tough, but now we're tired of being tough, you know, and we are feeling like toughing it out isn't bearing any fruit. Is that safe to say? So is that kind of oh yeah, and that so being tough is not bearing any fruit, and then Gen Z, so and we're complaining about it, and so then Gen Z is seeing us complain, and um they're saying, Okay, so Gen Z now realized now they are seeing this, they're saying, Okay, well now there's gotta be another way, you know, because my mom and dad are going through all these struggles and they're very vocal about it, you know, and they are vocal to me about it, and so they are also feeling this burnout. Maybe they're and maybe they're feeling the burnout through us too. Maybe maybe maybe we're not helping, you know. Um, so maybe they are experiencing it by experiencing it by proxy, but also right, so we're at a point where Gen Zers are, you know, they are all coming out of college, right? Do I have that right? You know, Gen Z are coming out of college, they're coming, they're they're all yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02My coverage is 24. If she went to college, she'd be coming out of college now.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there you go, right. So they are so Gen Zers are entering the workforce now, okay? And the economy is just as shit for them as it is for us, right? So it's the housing crisis is just as shit for them as it is for us, so they are literally experiencing the full brunt of what we were hit with, right, Jess? So yeah, uh you know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it it surprises me how early burnout is hitting the Gen Z generation. Um, because they're having to, I I mean, it wasn't easy for me to get jobs, but I could go through the right resources, and we didn't have all this online crap, right? Um, which is a blessing in some ways, but if you don't really still, if you don't know people, you don't know people, you're just taking a shot in the dark with hundreds of other people who are taking shots in the dark.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah, yeah, 100%, you know, and man, you know, I like I remember, I remember at the very least, right? Back when I was entering the workforce out of uh college and whatnot, um, it was the recession and the housing crisis and all there was a lot of shit going on. And we talked about in the last episode that you and I both felt that entering the workforce. And it wasn't easy getting into the workforce then either. But Jess, in comparison, we had it a lot better then than we did now. Like I remember there were more, there were a lot more job sites uh back then that you could put your then you could just throw your resume out to, and then you would get a you would at least get a call back from a recruiter or somebody that would try to hook you up, you know. That shit is gone now, man.
SPEAKER_02That sh that like it's not gone, but it's very specialized. Like it takes like for me, if what when I lost my job and I put myself out there, like I had four recruiters in my inbox instantly, but that's because I have bachelor's degree, master's degree, M I C P A license.
SPEAKER_01Right, right.
SPEAKER_02That's the only reason why I I I do understand that. And I I see what you're saying. It wasn't intentional on my part. I kind of fell into I'm I'm I'm very um instinctive. I just follow my gut. Uh and and even back in the day when it was a lot easier, I I remember having getting my bachelor's degree, and I was like, this is it, this is the ticket for me to lead a like you know, great life. And then I applied for job after job after job, just having a bachelor's degree. Um, because I even I I and I did get my first job out of college through my advisor. Um but again, it was a specialized thing and I needed to get out quickly, or else I would be stuck and I didn't want to be stuck. And so I was out there like actively like looking and but I I saw this trend of everything in the accounting field was CPA preferred.
SPEAKER_00So you have to get a CPA in order to do that.
SPEAKER_02So then and it took me a it took me quite a while after that, uh probably seven or eight years to start pursuing it and getting it. Um but it was something, and because again, I got my C I got my master's degree during the housing and uh recession that we went, the housing crisis and recession we went through. So um that again my master's degree, woo-hoo, I have that. And then I was like, okay, so I have a bachelor's and a master's, and that's really not that's bullshit because it's not getting me what I want. Um, and that led me into going to get my CPA license because it I and I just fell into it like, well, that didn't work. That didn't work. Oh, let's try this one.
SPEAKER_00So now I have no so now I have no choice but to invest myself into this um extra education and costs, right? Because it costs money to do this stuff, right? So this extra education and costs in order to get these three letters in front of my name to get myself into the door, right? To at least get in the door here. Yep. And um, and you know, Reynard, our third co-host, um, if he were here, he'd be able to speak to that too, because he's also a CPA. I and I remember he worked very, very, very hard. He really locked in to get that, you know. Um, and you you have to be getting a CPA is not easy. It's a lot of yeah, it's a lot of dedication and locking in and sacrifice just so that you can position yourself to have a good job that's well paying to support yourself.
SPEAKER_02So we were the we were the we were the pioneers in figuring out that what they were touting to us didn't match the reality when you got out on the other side.
SPEAKER_00Correct.
SPEAKER_02And and for my oldest daughter, who's 24, she watched me get my master's degree because I had her by junior year before I got my bachelor's degree. So she seen me graduate twice from college and was there to celebrate when I got my CPA license. She she watched everything that I did, and she was like, that's a fucking lot.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And now, but but again, going back, so as you were going through this, how did you communicate this journey you were going on to her? You know what I'm saying? Like, how did you did you relay it to her in in in such a way where it's like this is the like this is the path, you know, or like how how did you how did you communicate the journey that you were going on to your daughter?
SPEAKER_02Oh well, so we're simple people around here. And it was more like, hey, mom, can you take me to go do this? And I'd be like, no, but I will find somebody who will take you. I have to go to class or I have to study for this, or like all of that. And she's she's a smart human. Uh she just observed it. She knows it wasn't like a really like deep, meaningful, like you know, TGIF, like family moment conversation that we had about it. She just watched me do it. She watched me do it. She I she spent a lot of time. I think I've said this on episodes before. Both of my kids spent a lot of time when I worked outside of home at my office with me, especially during tax season. I would pick them up from school and they would just be in my office with their little tablets and um snacks. Uh, you know, they just blankets, pillows, they just came with me. So they just took the journey with me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. They took the journey. That's that's actually, I mean, when you when you say it like that, it almost sounds beautiful in a way, but um it's super messy in the background.
SPEAKER_02So yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so so she so she she she essentially suffered alongside you, right? She did.
SPEAKER_02She did. She really did.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, man. Um, but you know, your journey though, Jess, it's I'm seeing that is um it's a very common thing I'm seeing. Like, okay, I can't tell you how many times I've gone on LinkedIn, right? And I've seen I've seen people make posts on LinkedIn, and the posts go something along the lines of, hello, LinkedIn community. I am very proud and happy to announce, and you're like, Oh, great, so-and-so got a job. I am very proud and happy to announce that I'm going back to school and I'm going to be investing thousands of more dollars to hopefully find my to hopefully find another job. You know, it is like so many people are getting so fed up and so um uh uh uh uh uh like just so lost that they they the only solution is okay, I'm not getting jobs because I am I'm not qualified enough or I don't have these certifications. So now I need to spend more money that I don't have and I'm not working to to obtain for more education so that I can get these yeah, so I can get these letters uh next to my name so I can get into that of the door. A lot of people are going back to school and just getting deeper and deeper and deeper into debt. And all in the hopes that this just increases their job chances that they can get an interview and get hopefully get yeah um a somewhat uh financially fulfilling job, you know. And then and then you wonder why we're all fucking burnt out, man. You know, shit. Yeah, like it's it is it's it's this it's it's it's like a it's it's like a rigged system, you know?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. No, I agree with that totally. And so and and really at the end of the day, my experience is like again, my CPA license has opened doors for me, and I will never say anything negative about that. But at the same time, like at the end of the I'm gonna say the most cringe, as the kids say, thing that I could possibly say that's been said to me over and over and over again since I started in my career is that it doesn't matter how many credentials you have after your name, it doesn't matter the you know, your certifications, it doesn't even matter, you know, your experience to a certain extent.
SPEAKER_01A lot of it is connections and networking, yes, and your personality and your personality.
SPEAKER_02That's a that's that's the biggest part. It took me 20 plus years to be like, okay, fuck y'all been right. I guess I guess I have to do that. Yes, and I only figured it out naturally, like with me and you and like our network of people that we have, it was a natural thing. And I'm like, oh, this is what they've been talking about. Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Right on. No, right on J. I the the current job that I'm working right now. I got I I obtained it because I knew somebody that worked there and they referred me, you know. Same, same here, you know, exactly. We got our jobs because we were referred. I there's a there's all there's an increasing trend there of uh uh of yeah, companies they're taking people on because of referrals rather than just taking people on cold turkey. So you're spending all these times on these job sites like Indeed and LinkedIn and whatever, and you're sending these resumes out to these companies that you have no ties to, and they're just looking you over um because they don't want to take a chance on someone new, they would rather take a chance on somebody you know that comes recommended by someone internally, you know, or or they just promote from within or whatever. And and I and it's like to a degree, I understand that, you know, like if you get a referral from a trusted employee, like I get that, like I I totally get that, but um it's just become harder and harder for people to cold turkey just work at a new company, you know, yeah, any sort of natural in, you know, to get them in to begin with.
SPEAKER_02Well, let's be honest, in the in the age of AI, everybody's writing their shit through Chat GPT or Gemini or Copilot or whatever those things are. Uh and so they then they all start looking the same. And so then what do you have to rely on to even figure out if you want to talk to a person? And then somebody just like you who has ran interviews, if if they don't meet the basic qualifications, I I don't have time in my day because as we said, burnout and all of that to have a conversation with them, but it's really hard to tell now.
SPEAKER_00It is it it it is, it's really, really hard, and um yeah, I I knew right away, like I remember when I was doing interviews, like I I pretty much knew right away whether someone was a fit or not, with it within or within like five minutes, you know, and like you said, personality is a lot of it too, and uh obviously it varies in your field, but then again, I don't know. I feel like I feel like your personality uh in no matter what field you specialize in plays a crucial role, so to speak, you know. People I was just I was saying this to you earlier, uh off mic. I think these days people invest in people, Jess. You know, people invest in people's people invest in personality, or rather, I should say. People want to invest in personality, people want to feel like they are relating to that person or that person speaking their language. And uh I think that we are seeing that permeate with the flood of people who are burnt out, Jess, and they quit their jobs, and then they become content creators, you know. We are in this current age and of uh of an influx of content creators, uh, people starting YouTube channels, social media channels, TikTokers. How many people, how many times have you heard about TikTokers that are just making a living out of making TikTok videos out of God knows what, picking their nose, you know? Or I I don't know.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I have to watch these videos. I'm not a like you know, TikTok and YouTube video watching fool by any stretch, but my seven-year-old grandson, that's one of his zen activities, and so I get roped into watching some of the craziest shit. Yes, and I'm like, like they have a channel just doing this shit, like that's just what they do.
SPEAKER_00Oh, and um yeah, and unfortunately, Jess, yeah, we are at we we are at that um unfortunate curmudgeon age of our life, right? Where now we look down at our at the young people who are like, look at these young people and their silly shit that they're doing, you know what I mean? Everything, everything that they're into seems wild and crazy and silly to us, right? And then we're just and now we're the old out-of-touch people, you know.
SPEAKER_02Well, I've I've always been that person because you know the Kardashians were never my cup of tea. I was like, why the fuck are people watching this? I hope that doesn't make Philisters mad, but I had a best friend and her and my oldest daughter would just like geek out talking about the Kardashians in the latest episode, and I had no clue because I wasn't interested. And and if it came on when I was sitting there, but we're not watching that. Yeah, we're not watching that. So I've been old and cremated even when I was whenever they came out. I was in my 20s, okay, and I was I was still like I I don't understand why I got enough of that shit going on in my my life.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, I feel that man. I've always been an old soul myself, even even in my 20s or my youth. I I think I've always had a part of myself that was just like you know slightly disconnected with the youth culture, you know, whatever youth culture we were experiencing. But um I just but it's it's funny how just cyclical life is, you know.
SPEAKER_02It is. It's just yeah, yeah. You we we are we're we're the aunties and the uncles and the yeah, you know, the old heads, as we call them around our neck of the woods. Oh, you're an old head. Well, I don't feel like an old head, but sure, I guess I am.
SPEAKER_00It's like, damn, man, I'm not old, you know. It's it's it's you know, we don't want we don't want to be called that, but I think that's just a circle of life, you know. It's like it's like when we were when we were kids, Jess, you know, in in the in the 90s, you know, like I'm sure I'm just using this as an example, like in the 90s, you know, that was like the rise of hip-hop, right? And um the 80s and the 90s with the rise of hip-hop. And the generation before that grew up with you know, jazz and soul and um rock and classic rock, you know, they all look at like, what is this, what is this rowdy, you know, ratchet shit you're listening to. You know, to them, to them, the rap of the you know, the hip-hop and rap of the 90s was like ratchet and violent and and and and profane, and and we're like, nah, this is just this is just hip, man. You know, this is this is just what we do, right? And now, Jess, we are the 40 somethings, right? And we listen to the new music that Gen Z is listening to and Jen Alpha will be listening to, and we're just disconnected from it. You know what I'm saying? It's and so uh, and then we complain and say it's bad, but but is it, or are we just disconnected from it, or we just don't have we don't we don't have a we don't have a um we don't have a tether to it.
SPEAKER_02And we don't have any type of yeah, so that makes complete sense.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know, so I I so I I have to remind myself of that every time I listen to you know, like a sexy red song on the radio or something like that, you know. I'm just I'm just like, oh god, this sounds awful.
SPEAKER_02Oh my god, just my daughter's music, you know. I told you it's her hot girl summer.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know, like the instinct is just be like, man, I just this is this is not good. But I'm like, you know, Kyle, it's just it's just not you're not in tune with it. That's all it is. You're just not in tune with it. And and you know, and that's how I think that's how life has always been. You you could go back to the youth culture of the 60s, right, Jess? You're right. Like, I think where there was this big movement where I think the with the youth of the 60s were breaking away from that kind of like idyllic 1950s culture where. Everything was prim and proper and everything, and then you know, drugs and LSD was introduced, and it all went crazy, you know, like so, you know, and then society was changed forever at that point, you know. So I think youth culture comes in and changes everything. But anyway, I have no idea if this is on topic of what we're talking about or not. But like I but it's just to break it back, but um I think just to break it back and maybe uh kind of tie up the uh the nucleus of the conversation. Um burnout, you know, we talked a lot about burnout and millennials, and I think I think there's an instinct to say that burnout millennials are symbiotic with each other, they're synonymous. But I think it's honestly we were, you know, the the the environment, the 9-11, and the housing crash, the economy crash, the the pandemic, we were hit with that, and Gen Z is born into it, and Gen Alpha is also gonna be born into it. So I do think that we start we millennials started a large cultural shift at looking at everything around us, questioning it, and saying, you know what, I don't think it has to be like this. It just this doesn't feel totally right. Why am I why am I torturing myself in a job that I feel unfulfilled in? Why why am I why am I why am I doing we're asking why, Jess? I think it's just snapping.
SPEAKER_02A job, a relationship, a situation, like you know, anything, you know. Yeah, uh, and I just want to say we we do, especially the generation above us, but our generation too, uh, they tend to see the Gen Z generation as lazy or unwilling to work. Yeah. And and and Gen Z just from my perspective with my daughter, is that it's it's not she's she's working a full-time job. Okay, and taking care of two children. Um but like through her, I see a generation that they're trying to like build a life, you know, the dream that they've been sold while carrying a lot more uncertainty, a lot more visibility, and just so much more pressure than even we had to deal with at their age.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I agree with that.
SPEAKER_02And so, yeah, I can imagine that even though they're younger, like at your age, I was doing la la la la la, you know, like uh, but there's a whole lot of extra factors.
SPEAKER_00Correct. And yeah. I I agree with you, just and to punctuate your point, I I feel at the very least, the generation above us, Jess, um, our parents, grandparents, etc. They at least gave us, you know, they're they at least gave us to a certain degree an answer, right? Like this is this is your answer to it. I don't think we have answers. So we can't even give G Gen Z any answers, right? Because we're going through it, you know, right? And right. So they look to us for answers and we're like, I don't fucking know, yo. You know, so you know, that's let me know when you figure it out. Yeah, let me know, please. You know, when you find something, like please let me know. So we're just as lost as they are. Um, but you know, I I don't think that asking why is a bad thing. I think it's important for anybody to ask why in their life and or and to reflect and to look at your life, look at your surroundings, and question if it's what you want, if it's what's making you feel feel fulfilled, and pivot if you need to. So I think I so I don't think it's a bad thing, but it has created a lot of air uncertainty, the times that we're living in, and the the the times that millennials were hit with. Um, I think really in the 2000s onward, we really got hit with an onslaught of cultural circumstances that made us yeah, just question everything and question our our well-being and we'll question our happiness. And a lot of us are lost. That's why you're seeing all these people quitting their jobs and move into some remote location in uh in east in in Belize, you know, to uh you know, just you know eat coconuts all day, you know what I'm saying? And you know what I'm saying? So we're all we're all trying to I think we're all we're we're all trying to reset. We're all trying to reset and we're all trying to recover from our burnout, from our collective burnout. You know, I I I quit my job and I took time off, and it was much needed time off after working for for more than a decade. I think it was about 13 years when I had resigned. And you think about that, right? It was 13 years consecutively, and in those 13 years, yes, I had never once taken more than a week off.
SPEAKER_02That's crazy.
SPEAKER_00You know, because of the nature of like in America, in America, I think on average, the average American job affords you about two weeks vacation, you know. And let's let's listeners, let's let's sit with that for a second here, okay? Let's sit with that for a hot second. To okay, let's be generous. Let's say three weeks, okay? Three weeks, three out of what how many weeks is it? 52, right? Three out of 52 weeks in a year, you get to take a break. Does that actually sound like a lot?
SPEAKER_01No.
SPEAKER_00Does that does that sound sufficient to recharge and get back, you know, and and and and properly, you know, and properly um go back into go back into your work fully recharged, you know? You go to you go to Europe, for example, man, Europeans, boy, they they they they crack the they crack the code on life, let me tell you. They they're all about just living over there. Life is just slower. Jobs, they take they they they get month, they take months off, you know, they just they take time, Jess. They take time over there to recharge and live and have fun and enjoy being alive. Here, we are literally working our asses to death. Here, here's two weeks, here's two weeks out of the year, you know. Take two, you know, and and that's that's all you freaking get. Is that enough time for your average person to yeah?
SPEAKER_02Is that enough time for your average person?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, man. So it's like so. Think about that. So think about what that does to a person who works consecutively and they don't they they don't get to take more than um they don't get to take more than a week off. And on add on top of that, right? I think most people don't take more than a week off because when they come back from that week, Jess, what happens? You walk back to a whole mess of email, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Everything that you didn't deal with the past week. Here you go. It's waiting, it's waiting for you. So you got to get this week's work and last week's work done. Like, fuck, who wants to do that?
SPEAKER_00So you're almost penalized for taking a break, and all that zen you accomplished from you know relaxing on a beach in Barcelona is is ruined almost immediately when you come back to work. Yeah, yeah, you know what I'm saying? So it's um I just you know, I've been thinking a lot about that lately of just about the the work culture that we in and just how it just burns people out and it affords and and we're given very little time to recharge. And so it's no matter, it's no wonder that a lot of us are logging off every day after work and just vegging out on the couch watching 90-day fiance, you know what I'm saying? For yeah, for the recipe for the entire evening, you know what I mean? And um, I don't know. So so what's the answer, Jess?
SPEAKER_02The answer is no answer.
SPEAKER_00No, there is an answer. There no, there absolutely is an answer, Jess. I I'm actually kind of surprised that you don't know what the answer is, okay? The answer uh is two letters OF. You don't know what OF is I do not know. Only fans, man!
SPEAKER_02Only only this OnlyFans. I I threatened them a lot around this house.
SPEAKER_00Oh shit. Yeah. My bad. My bad. That's my bad. You're so out of touch, Jess. That's I swear.
SPEAKER_02I'm like, um what? No, I'm just older. I'm older.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, nah, I mean, I think I think I think all joking aside, I think the um I think it's easy to say that the well, you know, I I I think it's I think I think it's it's it's an easy reflex to say, well, yeah, I'm gonna quit my job and become a content creator. And we are living in a time where it's easier, more it's it's it's easier than ever to put yourself out there, create a YouTube channel, create a social media channel, create a podcast, you know, just get a mic and start talking, yapping away. Just get your camera and start recording yourself and put it on social media and see what happens. Uh, so I think and I think that's what we are seeing. I think we are actively seeing a cultural shift in people revolting against the establishment of work culture and saying, I'm not happy, I'm not fulfilled here. I'm gonna do my own thing. I want my own autonomy, I want my own freedom. And of course, even those things come with their own challenges, right? There's nothing that's perfect in life, even if you obtain that freedom and autonomy, there are challenges that come with that as well. There's pressures that come with that as well. But I do feel that we are observing a shift of people just saying, nah, I don't want to be chained to I don't want to be chained to this office anymore, I don't want to be chained to this desk anymore. I don't it doesn't have to be this way. There are other ways, you know. I'm tired of it.
SPEAKER_02You know, I can't well it's not even I'm tired of it. Like I can't survive in this.
SPEAKER_00Right, the term you use, we're in survival mode.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, I can't survive in this.
SPEAKER_00I can't I can't survive like this much longer. So I have to do something, I have to bet on myself. And uh I'll you know, I a mutual friend of ours, Jess. I I won't say who it is, just out of respect, but a mutual friend of ours told me one. Uh uh so recently I um I actually offered a job or offered an opportunity for a mutual friend of ours to work at the company that I currently work at. And um, she actually went through the interview process and they were very much willing to hire her. And then at the last minute, she decided against it. And you know, I asked her why, and uh, she said to me, She said, Kyle, if I take this job, I'm going to pour everything I have into this, and I have this business I'm trying to grow, and my business is going to take a back seat. So even though it was the much scarier, riskier option, and this person had kids too, Jess. Uh has kids, but this person was like, Essentially, I'm gonna bet all on me. I need to devote my time and effort to myself. I'm gonna put all the chips on me, I'm gonna put all the chips on me, and it's not a and and and this has to work. It's not an it's not a it's not a will this work, this has to work, and it so and therefore it will work, you know. Yeah, and I I had a lot, I have a lot of respect for that person for doing that, you know, just saying I could take this job, I can take this nine to five job, but I know it's going to drain my energy, it will provide me financial stability, security, but it's gonna drain my energy, and everything else will fall by the wayside.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_00I I need to invest in myself and I need the energy to do that. And this these corporate careers we're in, they just don't afford that to us, you know. Yeah, so you know, so anyway, we did a lot of complaining on these two episodes. Hey, we're doing millennials do best.
SPEAKER_02We're back, we're back, yeah. That's more we're back, y'all. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yes, yes, yeah, yeah. We're back in here to stay, but nah, man, you know, I mean, look, there's no um, you know, we don't have answers for everything, but uh we're hoping that people will find some value in just knowing that you're not alone. We're all going through it, we're all in this together. And I will say, you know, I will re reiterate something that I think everyone is that's think is important for everyone to hear is that if you are feeling stuck, if you are feeling burnt out, and you're being hard on yourself for feeling burnt out, like why do I feel burnt out? Why aren't why aren't I just thankful for having a job and all this stuff? Go easy on yourself and you're not you're not lazy, you're just yeah, you're just burnt out, you're tired, you're exhausted, your nervous system is spent. Okay, you're human, you need time to re-energize. Okay, humans can't keep we we can't keep go, go, go, go, go going like this without just shutting down, you know. So don't be hard on yourself for feeling like you're in a stuck phase of your life. You will get unstuck, but we all, and I'm talking to myself, we all have to take that uncomfortable step and make a change. If we want to change, we just gotta make it, you know.
SPEAKER_02Nothing changes if nothing changes, as they say.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, man. You know, and that that is the one of the truest things in life. Nothing changed, nothing changing. And you gotta make this, you gotta make the step, and it's gonna feel uncomfortable and icky, but you gotta do it, otherwise, you're just gonna be stuck in the hamster wheel, and you know, and then it it what are you doing this for at the end of the day? Who who who the serving you is this who's the serving at the end of the day by doing that, right? So God help us all. So yeah, we'll we'll end on that note, but anyway, this was a fun discussion though, and you know, it felt good to at least just talk about this.
SPEAKER_02I'm so excited to be back and having these conversations again regularly, honestly.
SPEAKER_00Agreed, and I think awareness is one of the biggest tools, you know, that I think is one of the biggest assets that can be provided, you know, awareness of of things and and making people feel like they're not alone in what they're experiencing, you know, and that's ultimately the goal of this podcast. So, Jess, thank you for joining me along this journey and this conversation. And then uh we'll see. We may or may not have a guest next week on next week's episode. We have some ideas, but listeners, stay tuned for more exciting developments on this podcast, um, websites and uh social media pages that we're gonna be launching soon. So, all in very, very all in due time. Yes, all in due time. So, yes. All right, all right, y'all. Have a wonderful week, and we will talk to you next week.