The Seeing Sideways Podcast

Data Overload and Overwhelm (w/ special guest, Joy)

• Boomer • Season 3 • Episode 3

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0:00 | 59:19

Today we add a new voice to the conversation of the millennial burnout epidemic: our good friend Joy joins us on this episode of the podcast. She adds an enlightening perspective on DATA and how we consume and use data to make decisions or does the overload just make us feel...stuck? 

SPEAKER_04

Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the Seeing Sideways Podcast. We are the podcast that shares tools, resources, and relatable stories to help you navigate this maze or mess we love to call life. I am here with my co-host tonight, Jessica.

SPEAKER_00

Hello.

SPEAKER_04

And we have a special guest, our good friend Joy. Hello, Joy. Hey, hey, everybody. Joy, we are so happy to have you here. Uh, this Joy is actually a very good friend of ours. Um, again, yet another prior coworker of uh of Jessica and I. And uh, you know, I always like to say, I have always said that uh Joy and Jessica are like my two older sisters that I never had. They were the ones that always kept me in line and kept all my scatological thoughts in place. And whenever I wanted to do things in a kind of offbeat and kind of freestyle manner, Joy, you would always kind of be like, Kyle, okay, that's good, but we need some order here. We need we need some order. There needs to be, in fact, I don't know if you remember. Remember our catchphrase? I used to say there's a madness to my method, right? Yes. And then you would always be like, There's so much madness to your method, you know, there needs to be some order in this in this place. So um, so yeah, so but you and Jessica are both. I've learned a lot from the two of you, and I really consider the two of you uh like my sisters, and I'm very happy to have you here. So, welcome.

SPEAKER_03

Welcome, thank you, thank you so much for having me. Um I think you're you're overestimating how much I got to practice being an adult on you. So, like all my opinions and stuff. I'm like, let's test this on Kyle. So it's all good.

SPEAKER_04

Oh I was a guinea pig. Okay, it all makes sense in retrospect now. Okay, it all makes sense. Well, if it for what it's worth, it worked. I learned a thing or two, um, or three. But um, but but yes, we are so happy to have you here. And Joy, like all of our guests, um, we like to start with actually just kind of putting the floor to you. Um, no pressure, but I would like for you to tell our listeners who is Joy? How would you define yourself if someone were to ask you that existential question of who Joy is, what would your response to that person be?

SPEAKER_03

I should have probably thought about this a little bit deeper, but joy is a mom. I think that comes first for me in everything. Um, I'm a business owner, I'm a sister, I'm a friend, um, auntie. But joy is also a daughter to somebody. Um, but ultimately I'll say joy is independent and is becoming. I feel like I am not who I was meant to be, but I am becoming joy day after day, every day. I'm becoming a new person and going toward um a purpose that I'm still yet to fully define what that purpose is, but I am becoming that person. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Damn, that's that's a hell of a good answer.

SPEAKER_00

I love that. Honestly, I love that.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, what better answer than that? Yes, no. I mean, isn't that we all what we all strive towards is to every day step to you know, step towards one step at a time towards that idealized version of ourselves that we're striving to be. And um yeah, man. So let's start with this, you know. Uh let me pig it back off of what you just said. So you're working towards that ideal version of yourself. Um what was it like, I guess, coming to the realization that you weren't weren't that joy that you wanted to be yet?

SPEAKER_03

I think it was the overwhelm. It was um, I was unhappy, I was overwhelmed by everything in my wake, and I wanted to do everything. Um, but I like I said, like, number one thing is I'm a parent, I'm a mom, and I'm a mom to three beautiful daughters, and they're young, they're impressionable. And I was like, is this the life that I want to model for my children? And so I had to kind of sit back and think about that. And I'm like, okay, what do I want to model for them? And I think that's what started my self-exploration, figuring out the things that bring me joy, figuring out things that make me happy. And I know happiness is fleeting, but it was what can bring me peace and keep me out of the overwhelm and make me feel like, okay, this is the life I want to model for my children.

SPEAKER_04

That's beautiful. Yeah. I mean, like I said, I think that's what we all strive towards. And I think that again, I'm the guy who's not a parent in this uh conversation here. But um but we've talked about this before on other episodes about how I think a parent in a way, you know, a parent should be either be or working towards their idealized version because that makes you the most optimal parent you can be, right? If you are somebody who's not happy with themselves and not satisfied with the life that they built for themselves, um, and you don't feel self-actualized, I feel like that's only going to hurt your parenting because you'll feel you'll feel unfulfilled. And then that will spill into yeah, that will spill into your relationship with your children, I feel. Do you feel like that's accurate to say?

SPEAKER_03

Oh my gosh, a hundred percent. Um it's it's the I don't know how to say it, but it's how much when I am unhappy, how my parenting is trash. Like I'm yelling at my kids, every little thing they do irks me to the ends of the world. Like, and then they're sad, and then I'm feeling guilty. And it's like, okay, what is happening here? And so being self-aware to the point that I I even let my kids know, like, listen, if mommy's tired, like just stay away from me because I am not being logical, I'm going to be pissed about everything. Please do not piss me off. But being self-aware of like things that trigger me, the fact that if I am not getting enough rest, which is something that I was doing even when we were working together, where I wouldn't get enough rest. And I don't know if you remember me going like, and this is a future joys problem where I wasn't working out, I wasn't doing all that stuff. Like, this, well, future joy is here, and she's not happy about it. Um, so yeah, so I started being self-aware about all that stuff and being like, okay, what does that mean for current joy so that I can again model the right path? I can be a better parent, I can be more present and be emotionally available for my kids and even for myself. I mean, I think we're parenting ourselves at this point. Like my mom's not parenting me anymore, but I have to parent myself and unlearn a lot of things that I knew before I learned through you know my parents to now be able to pass on something to my children.

SPEAKER_04

Right on, man. Yeah. It's um it's interesting. I think this ties into what Jessica and I have been talking about the last couple of weeks, as that uh, you know, we've been talking about this millennial burnout crisis that we seem to be in, and uh this kind of state of uh mass overwhelm, like you said too, that a lot of us feel too. And kind of a lot of us reaching a point in our lives in our in our 30s and our 40s and so on and so forth, we're we're we're feeling like, oh wow, is this it? Is this life? Like I I I I I feel like this is not this is not what I was promised, or this is something's wrong with this path that I've taken, you know, and I don't feel happy, I don't feel fulfilled. And I think that part of what you described just now, and I know Jessica can probably relate to this too, is you know, we are I think we are molded to I believe that you know, you you go through a certain trajectory, you go to school, you go to college, you find your sweetheart, you marry that sweetheart, and then you have the kids, and then you have the house, and then you are domesticated fully by the age of 30, and then uh, you know, if you do it all that well, then your grandparents by the time your grandparents by the time you're in your 50s, I guess, or something like that. And then the cycle repeats. But I feel like a lot of us now are looking at that template that I think many generations have followed for a long time, and we're like putting the it's like the the the needle on the record, right? And we're just like, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. Does it have to be like this? Or be like I I did this, but I'm supposed to be happy and I'm not, or I'm not quite there. And it doesn't even mean that you're not happy with certain aspects, or like, for example, you know, you you have children, Jessica. You have children too, and I know the two of you both love your children, so it's not about that, but there is an element of self-fulfillment that feels missing there, right?

SPEAKER_01

So um, yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_03

I don't know about I I've actually thought about this a little bit, and one thing I I think happened is that in our early 20s, um, we were collecting data, right? Like over time. So these things we were told, these paths we were given, follow this trajectory, go to this school, take this course, be this person, um, take this career. And again, a lot of people that I even know personally who are doctors, attorneys, and you know, people who are professionals, those professions that are supposedly paying well. And now that we're in our 40s, they're like, that's not what I wanted to do. Like, I don't want that. I'm not fulfilled in that. But what if during this time, between our 20s and our 30s and like mid-30s, we were just collecting data. We didn't know anything better except what we were told, right? And now that we're in our late 30s, 40s, we have the data and we're using that data to determine hey, is this the life that I want for me? And our parents did the best they could. You know, they told us what they think was best, but also they were not living in the times that we are living in. So, for example, if someone my my mom is 80 something and she doesn't even know what AI is, how could she have even been able to be like, you know what? You should probably do something in like technology, you know what I mean? Like it's something that they just didn't know. And they don't understand it, yeah. Don't understand it.

SPEAKER_00

My mom still doesn't even have a cell phone.

SPEAKER_03

There you have it.

SPEAKER_00

She's she'll be 70 in the in a couple of weeks. Uh, but we gave her a cell phone two different times, and even when she was out and about when we called her, she just didn't answer. So we quit paying for the line because I'd like the whole purpose is to be able to get a hold of you, you know, when you're away. But she like, yeah, she's this the world that we're living in right now is just completely different, and um they have a hard time adapting, we are having a hard time adapting. Which is where our stress and overwhelm is coming from.

SPEAKER_03

And I think also the amount of information that's thrown at us right now is like so much more, it's overwhelming. How are we to like take all that information and filter for what applies to us?

SPEAKER_04

You're so right, because yeah, you know, um I like a lot of what you're saying, and I resonate with it because you're saying we're collecting data, and of course, our parents are they did the same thing to a degree, right? But they're using the data that they learn and they're giving us information, but the information may not be totally applicable to what we are currently experiencing with this current uh culture that we're in, and just everything again, like the amount of information that we have accessible to us right now through social media, through the internet in general, everything is at your fingertips, you know, and it is overwhelming. I mean, the listen, what's the number one thing that most of us do when we're bored these days, right? We scroll on our phones, right? You know, we're scrolling aimlessly through Insta, TikTok, Facebook, whatever YouTube, whatever your social media uh poison of choice is. We're just scrolling aimlessly, trying to find some kind of mental stimulation. But what's happening in the process also is we're getting kind of a system overload of info. Um, our parents didn't have that, you know, they just they just did not have that, and so it was different for them, and then it was different for their grandparents and then our great parents, you know. So it was like it's different. So you're right, Joy. I think you're right that um we are collecting data and now we have the data and we have a lot of it. And do you feel that? So now that we have a lot of it, now that we're in our mid-30s, upper 30s, 40s, mid-40s, we've got all this data. Do you do you think it's safe to say that a lot of us are now just feel that's the reason for our overwhelm? Because we have all this data from so many different sources. So now we're trying to just pick and we're just overwhelmed, like, what the hell do I pick? Right? Because it's just so contrary to the straight and narrow path we were told to go. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, absolutely. And I think also it's like ultimately the data we should be collecting should be about ourselves, right? Like, I think the data I should be collecting is about my path and the path that I've taken. How does that apply to me? And then also figuring out like, is this the path I want to continue with, or should I go a different path? But what we are doing is we're not only taking our own data, we're also taking other people's data. So, like you're talking about social media. I think the algorithm is basically brainwashing us, it's feeding us more of what we are searching for and making it seem like that's the only path, right? Like, so if you think about who you see when you're scrolling in your through your TikTok or your Instagram or whatever, it's the same content creators or from the same group of content creators, and they are hyper focused in what they're giving us. So we're getting very limited information from a very large pool of data and then making that our truth. So you, I'm an accountant, so I'm looking at other accountants who have started businesses, which is what I did too, and they've like exploded in like a year or two, and they're making millions and you know, multi-millions, and they're traveling the world and they're doing all this and going, and I'm going, like, wait, why is it taking me longer? Because the data is saying that this is how it should be. It's not showing me the reality of what are my resources, you know? And so I'm over here comparing myself with other people instead of going, like, what is my path and how can I get better at what I'm trying to do? Or is this the path I want to take?

SPEAKER_04

Yes, you nailed it on the head. Um, it's this comparison crisis that we're in. And and how can we not, right, Joey? Like, how can we not compare ourselves when we're seeing all these content creators shoved in our faces every day? And again, not even just content creators, we're just seeing our peers, you know. I could um I could see Jessica on my feed and she's at a picnic with her, you know, lovely family. And I'm like, man, I want a family, you know, and like I I I you know, I want kids and I want this and I want that. And but I have no idea what is going on behind the scenes.

SPEAKER_00

And first of all, you don't understand the hell it took to corral everybody, right? Yeah, to get that one pretty picture, yeah, to get everybody's hair brushed, no dirt on the fact that I have grandsons, so listen, they stay looking like chimney sweeps. That's why I tell them all the time their faces are always dirty. The work that it the work it takes to get that one beautiful, like everybody's looking and smiling is exhausting.

SPEAKER_03

And even think about how many times that smile is not even real. Cause I'm like, just smile.

SPEAKER_00

Yep. My my uh sister was telling me her daughter had a dance recital uh last night. And so her her brother and then her half-brother, who's he's seven, um, and he was mad, and she was like, he almost cried when we asked him to take the picture. And then like he was mean mugging the picture we got, and we just had to be happy with that. There was going to be no smile.

SPEAKER_03

That's what AI is for. You can change that frowning to a smile.

SPEAKER_00

And I'm like, well, I mean that's how he was feeling at the moment, I guess. Like you can't, you know, like you said, fake smiles versus like this kid's over here frowning. He didn't want to be in the picture.

SPEAKER_04

You know, you know, that's normal though. I remember I went through that whole phase when that was when I was a teen. Like, I went through this whole phase when whenever I would take pictures, I would always just like mean mug for the camera. Because you know, like the whole the whole gangster era I went through where I wanted to be uh a thug and have an afro and cornrows and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_00

That was your tough phase, your tough phase.

SPEAKER_04

Wow. Oh man, I have picture evidence. Yes, I do, and and every you could not get me to smile. I would just, you know, because that was what you did, that was what my favorite rapper did. So I just mean mug for the camera. So I just think that's kind of like what young boys do to an extent. But um, but yeah, no, but uh it's kind of going back, but it's true. We how do we not compare ourselves with people? Um, but Joy, I love what you said about we are oftentimes um not taking a step back and looking at our own situation, data of our own situation, right? And saying, okay, this person is successful and traveling the world and doing this, that, and the third, they did it. A, we don't know what struggle that person went through to get to that point. Uh, we don't know, B, we don't know what struggles that person still is experiencing, you know. So we have no idea what that person's life is like. And B, we are not that person, you know, we are not that we are our own individuals with our own path. And we have to, I think, sometimes take a step back and be like, you know what? I am not this person, and I'm doing good for right now. I'm doing, I'm okay. I'm doing good for this. I'm not there, I'm not where I want to be, but I'm good, you know, and I think that's a struggle for us um to kind of be present with that and just be like, hey, listen, you know what? I've got a roof over my head, I've got a job, I've got you know, I'm not married, but I've got a girlfriend. Or even if I'm not, even if I don't have a girlfriend, I'm dating, or whatever, like whatever you're looking at you look at the things that are making you happy currently and the things that you do have, but we're in this cycle of have not. I don't have this, I don't have that. And it's like you said, Joy, it's it's we're being brainwashed by the algorithm. And I do think that is a huge contributor as to why millennials are just feeling like so what the fuck do I do? Like I'm not where I want to be, where all these other people I'm seeing are where I want to be. But is it where I want to be? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03

So but my other question is uh is where these other people are where you actually want to be? Like is that really where you want to be, or are you just wanting to be there because that's what seems like the next step should be?

SPEAKER_04

That's correct, exactly. Because we don't I don't know, maybe maybe in a way, Joy and Jess, maybe in a way we are all I I guess like.

SPEAKER_03

you know ever okay so ever since birth ever since childhood right we are following directions if you think about it we're following directions from our parents from teachers in school we're we're following directions and maybe that never truly stops even into adulthood where we're looking for someone or someone's to show us which way to go what do you guys think about that I think that's true and I think that's the part about unlearning and realizing that once you hit a certain age nobody's coming to rescue you um nobody's gonna tell you what you need to do um you have to like I said parent yourself and that's part of it is being able to know what your goal is and then how do you get to that goal like I have a friend who keeps talking about like how much we underestimate the average he's like we're so focused on like being exceptional we want to be at 10 nobody wants to put be told that they're they're average I didn't even like that conversation honestly um because I'm freaking exceptional like what do you mean I'm not average but in reality like most of us are average and if the if if the average changes to like we're all exceptional then the exceptional becomes the average and then there's some outliers but because we don't know and we don't want to be average we think that whatever other people are telling us is how we should be living it's how we sh where we should be it's all this and that but I still stand with my question is it really what I want is that what I really should be aspiring to I don't think so half the time yeah I mean that's some deep shit right there um but I think and I think naturally the the question that follows that joy is so how do I find out what it is that I want right you know that is it's it's it seems like a simple question but it's really hard for a lot of us and I I think the three of us on this uh podcast can admit that we've at different points and maybe even still struggle with what I want I mean no I I'll I'll say it I I I do I have an overall um outline of how I want my life to go in the broad strokes of it yes absolutely but there are still um variables within that that I'm questioning it I'm like do I but do I actually want this I I and I'm wondering is it is it because I was told to have this would that actually make me happy I don't know but how do people I don't know find that out sit with themselves and find that out no pressure. I think it's intentionality I I'm at the point where it's taken a few years to get here but I can ultimately say like I'm there like I know what I want and I'm I'm chasing that but it's taken a lot of intentionality um it's still a working progress and then the one thing that I started to think about like I'm not even on social media like I'm not I just got off of it because like you were saying what do we do when we're bored we get on freaking social media and a sometimes I'm entertained by it or I'm aggravated by the shit I see on there and then like and then I'm like okay what can I do about it half the time nothing. And so I noticed I'm just upset or I'm ultimately like ultimately whatever I was watching or ingesting for that matter was it did not add any value to my life. And so I'm like I'm getting pissed off about shit I can't control. And I decided you know what I'm not getting on this like I'm not I'm not gonna be on Instagram I'm not gonna be on any of this and so now I live this like micro focused life I only I only deal with what I can control. Like honestly the world could literally blow up and I wouldn't even know about it until someone tells me that's what I tell everyone I'm like I don't know what's happening in the news I don't know who did what unless you tell me about it. So I focus on the things I can control my children my health my business how I spend my time who I spend my time with what I actually consume whether it's you know what I'm reading what I'm listening to and what I spend my money on. And so by doing that I'm super super intentional and sometimes some some of that means like I have to schedule my time like I'm a single mom of three like if I want to even have a social life I have to schedule time um to do things I I'm like I want to go hang out with friends I have to make sure it's scheduled in my calendar or it's just not happening. But it's all about being intentional and then deciding like hey the people on social media who the hell made them the expert like you're only sharing your experience on with your own like your own lived experiences and your own opinions even this podcast this is just our own lived experiences right and our own opinions right it is not to say that this is the only way that somebody should live life like decide what works for you brought up and I did say bro because I have like three teens I was just gonna say mic drop joy that ends podcast over point made yeah that that's it we're we're hanging it up this is the final episode there's not there's nothing more to say here we we we have become the authority on how to live your life with that no I'm just kidding uh but uh no that was very very well said and and I agree and you know I I really lit up when you said who made these people the authority and that's actually um that's actually an ideal I've very recently been um living my life by and guiding my life by because again we going back to this notion of we're just told to do things our whole life where we're we're told this this that we're told that this is what you want this is what you want this is what you want by so many people you know by by our friends too right we all have opinionated friends I'm sure right who are telling us oh you should do this you should do this you should do that this is how a relationship uh should work this is how uh whatever they have like opinions on everything right you know what they say about opinions and assholes um everybody's got one I'm serious man but you really take a step back and then you you have to just say to yourself wait but what makes them the authority like what makes them the authority on anything who is to tell you how a relationship should be how a marriage should be how uh your career should be how you should how you should how you should parent correct um how you should do more or less anything who is the authority we're all learning from teachers that had to learn from teachers that had to learn from teachers that have to learn from teachers but we're all navigating life based off of things that we experience things that we learn things that work for us and we're passing it down essentially but we pass these things down but we don't know if these things are going to work for the next generation for the people that we're passing it down to um or even like I said or even our peers like I guess like I said our friends we all have opinionated friends I'm sure and even though they're well intentioned you know you guys I'm sure like have you guys ever I don't know gone through a crisis of some sort of you consult your friends and then they're they're a little bit harder than you want them to be on you and you're like they're like well joy well Jessica you should have known better you know and you're like damn like I was just looking for a like a sympathetic ear and you're telling me like that I fucked up here.

SPEAKER_00

I'm just listening I'm just I'm just looking for a little bit of a guiding light but what makes them the authority on anything right well to Joy's point it's kind of like a learned thing for me being almost in my mid forties um I know who to go to in my friend group uh I know who to go to when I need the tough love I know who to go to when I need a comforting year I you know and I know who I can go to and tell them what I need and they'll provide it. But also to the point of the authority you know it's really hard to get to that point where you're just like well who cares what anybody thinks and I I say that a lot and I mean I mean that a lot but it's a practice of of a state of being because you still I still struggle with being like well this person isn't an authority whether you know it's my mom you know or you know whatever uh at the end of the day the only authority figure in my life is me but maintaining that thought process is a whole practice do you agree Joy?

SPEAKER_03

Oh a hundred percent and that was like I'm the youngest in my family and I had to go through a whole thing with my it's not even my therapist it was my like my coach career coach executive coach personal coach whatever you want to call her she ended up being my life coach but it was something that I struggled so much with. I'm the youngest in my family and I was just so used to everyone just telling me what to do like always and she pointed out to me because I was struggling I was I was um I had just gotten separated we like divorce proceedings were going on so we were like on our way to divorce and I was like I want to I want to go on a trip while the kids are away I want to be far away um enough that he can't call me and tell me to take the kids so I wanted to go to Kabo first solo trip and I could just not pull the plug on it I just couldn't do it. I had the money I had the time I just couldn't do it and she was like okay why and you know it took like two hours of us just kind of going through it and I realized I've always needed somebody to give me approval for shit that I wanted to do. It went from my parents and my siblings and then my my husband at that time and like there's always someone telling me what to do and that was the beginning of all my problems because I had this anxiety because I had to or my teachers also I had to ask for permission to do things that I wanted to do in school I need to go to the bathroom I have to ask for permission for that I want to take I want to go do whatever let's go on a trip with the kids let's put the kids in this school let's I want to go to this college mom I don't like this school dad you know there was always somebody telling me what to do and when to do it and how to do it that when I was left on my in to my own devices I had no clue what the fuck to do like I'm like I I have I I don't know I don't I don't know if I can go can I go to cabo or not and it like ultimately she was like okay what happens two weeks from now and you didn't go to cabo and I was like oh like it just the feeling I got was like this I feel like I'm useless I feel like I I don't I I don't deserve to have the things I need and it was like all these negative feelings and and she was like okay so it's two weeks from now and you went to Kabo and I was like I feel free and I feel like all these positive things and that kind of became the way I make decisions on my stuff I don't even ask anybody for permission anymore. I don't ask anybody for their opinion I might be like okay listen I need to vent about this and this is what's going on and like but that's it I don't need your opinion I mean if you want to give your opinion that's fine but I don't have to take it if I take it that's my choice but it's it's gotten to the point where I no longer need like validation I don't need permission I don't need like I'm giving myself the permission to do stuff. And a lot of times I'm like I just let them know like two years later um a friend of mine's like let's go to Jamaica I'm like okay can your kids babysit she's like sure all right cool bought the ticket two days later I'm in Jamaica my parents and my sisters and my mom are like where are you? I'm like uh Jamaica I'll see you at the end of the week like that's kind of like the way it became like where I now have I don't ask anybody for any permission for anything at all oh my god you hit me in my core there on so many levels that is so badass.

SPEAKER_04

Um and you know what I'm gonna add on to what you said Joy because um this is a conversation you and I had a while ago off mic obviously and you said something that very much resonated with me and I know you don't think I listened to you Joy but I do uh but uh but uh we were talking about just that very notion because I I I joy I suffer from the exact same thing uh suffered a sufferer who am I kidding I but I'm I'm working on it you know but I'm getting I'm much better at it than I once was of always seeking acceptance I resonate with that so much I my whole life I was seeking acceptance um from everybody every decision I made I it had I I felt like I had to clear it with somebody or I had to get the approval of oh this thing you're doing Kyle oh yeah that's a good idea so it would always be like oh I'm thinking about doing this do you think I should do it sure Kyle or no Kyle you know and then base my decision base off of that you know I it I was always seeking approval of somebody my peers whatever you know authority figures and you so you go through your life like that and then yeah and then the moment where you have to just make a decision you freeze and you're like I I don't know how to just do it on my own. I I I because I just I'm I'm always clearing it with somebody I'm I'm always always clearing it with somebody and I remember you told me uh not too long ago Joy you said you know what Kyle you just you make when you have to make a decision you just make a decision and whatever decision it is it's the right one you just you tell yourself I made a choice and that's it it's not a good choice it's not a bad choice it's a choice am I misquoting you there joy or that is that more or less what you I yeah that's actually wow um I didn't I didn't realize you actually see I listen man I listen wow okay my big sister yeah this is the first time I'm like a big sister so it's like oh my god but yeah I I actually heard that when I was kind of struggling with like you know the decision making and it I heard it someone someone's I don't know podcast or Insta or something like that but it was like we make every choice become a decision and when we do that what that means is like we think it's a final thing.

SPEAKER_03

A decision is final like you can't change your mind about it and all that. And this girl was saying that what if we looked at every quote unquote decision as a choice and so you make a choice and then you decide later whether it was a good decision or not a good decision. And then after that choice what you're deciding is do I want to continue with this or do I not want to continue this? So the the example she gave and I probably am going to butcher this was um someone gives you say a ginger you've never had a ginger earl before um so they give you a ginger ale and you're you're not deciding whether you're gonna drink it. You also don't even decide whether you like it or not. You're just gonna make a choice do I want to drink it or not? So you take it yes I'll drink it. Okay so you drink it and then that's the choice it was yes I will try it you you try the the drink and then you decide do I like it or do I not like it? Okay I like it. Then the next choice is will I drink it again or I don't like it and that's the final decision I'm not gonna drink it ever again. That's it. But it was never a decision at the very beginning when you were presented with the option to either take the drink or not take the drink. Like no you can't decide yet. So that's how I go about life like it's just a choice and you can always change your mind even when it comes to careers like people I was talking about my friends who are you know in the medical field and in law and all that and they're changing their minds and deciding they want to do something completely different. Like someone might decide they want to go and be an architect and they were a lawyer. They might decide to go you know they might decide to do be a teacher because that's where the passion is um and it's just a choice and we have so much life left in us I hope but we we have to live as if we have so much life left that we can choose and change our minds and that's okay. Like it's not a failure if you choose a different path than where you were and I think if we do that we take away a bit of the overwhelm.

SPEAKER_04

Right on man Joy is dropping mics left and right tonight man I tell you like this is this is spit in truth spit in truth man no I I no I I love everything you just said and I I think um I think that is the key is to of sorts um is there really a key to life I don't know but one of the keys is to yeah make a decision right just make a choice and you decide afterwards if it's the right choice or not because I think that's the danger right is that we can get stuck in this holding pattern of I have these choices and I don't know which one is the right one and I have so much anxiety over should I go left should I go right should I go center and I feel like I want to go left oh but you know what right has kind of like a some uh attractive uh uh notions to it too center I can't decide I can't decide and then you get stuck in that holding pattern for a long time and you end up making no choices for a while right and then meanwhile life is passing you by and you're not taking action so um I like that notion of just pick one just pick something and do it and then okay left didn't work out I tried it though hey I experienced it I tried it I experienced it didn't work all right now I'm gonna try right okay that might that one may not work either let me try center let me try diagonal let me go crazy and go diagonal because like people don't go diagonal right let me go di you know let me let me I don't know if I'm making any sense but like is this just make a choice right we just have to choose something try it and not be afraid of the decision yeah so I don't know why as you're speaking my mind went to like a maze like what if life is more like a maze a corn maze whatever and we're just like freaking rats trying to get I know we're trying to get through them but one thing that's definitely going to happen you have to get to the other side of the maze and time is passing right so you can either stand at the spot you're at and just never leave the maze because you can't decide left or right um and ultimately time still keeps passing we're still getting older it's got you know whatever it is but you can go left decide oh that's a dead end okay and then go right and then be like all right well this gets me somewhere and once you get to a different spot you have to decide again.

SPEAKER_03

And I think for the outliers the people who like blow up what they do is they create their own path to the outside like they don't even follow the freaking paths that are already set.

SPEAKER_04

They just like they create their own path but for us like some of us I'm I'm just gonna follow the the paths that are there that have already been created I just don't want to keep hitting a dead end you know so if I hit a dead end I'm making a turn and going somewhere else but it there's a constant forward movement um like just pursuing some type of progress some type of um forward movement like I'm not I might have to go a few steps back um to get myself back to where like to that beginning spot spot where then I can make an you know a different turn and I think that's okay too that's it joy we're all we're so afraid of going back right that's what that's part of what it is is we're we're we're we're afraid we're afraid of going back I don't want to go back you know I don't want to regress I don't want to go back to a prior status quo uh we're so uh afraid of that we have a lot of think a lot of us have that inherent fear of going back to square one essentially right and feeling like we lost our progress but it's not really going back to square one though is a joy it's right yeah yeah that's what I was gonna say are you really going back to square one you're not going back to elementary school like you're just kind of going back to the beginning of summer eight

SPEAKER_03

You know, like you you you you know more. You even with the with the right going back to coming, you have more data. Exactly. You have more data, you have more information, you have more experience, you know how to do this more efficiently. Um, you can slow down. Maybe you don't want to run straight into the wall, it's gonna hurt you. So, like, yeah, these you have more data, you have more information, and you can make better choices, I think. Um, and like, and it goes for everything. Like, I I left a long, long ass marriage and I had been stuck in it for a while just because I didn't want to go back to being like a single person or have to raise a child by myself or have to be like one one income, you know, be a one income family. But honestly, that was probably the best thing I did for myself, you know. So yeah, it's not really regressing, it's just choosing a different path that might seem like you're going backward, but it's just going back to some to a spot that gets you moving forward um in your path.

SPEAKER_04

Right. And I that's just it. And I think you're always you're always moving forward, like like we were just saying, is that yeah, even if you, you know, you get married and you get divorced or you're in a long-term relationship and then it ends. Yeah, it's natural to feel like, okay, I'm back to being single again. I'm back to I'm back to square one, but you're not. You pro this is a progression. It's it's a progression. You experience something that you learn from, acquired data from, grew from. You know, you are you are an improved version of yourself, you are not a you know, you are not a lesser version of yourself, uh, but it ties back into that whole notion, guys, of uh we are feeding the the problem that that goes back to the problem of we're getting data from other people around us. So if you are in that long-term relationship and then you break up, I don't know, you might get ridiculed, or people might make you feel bad about it, or make you feel like, oh, look, there, there you are again. You're you know, you're back to being single again, you know. Whereas here I am, happy with my happily married with my kids on year five of my marriage and whatever, and then you're seeing this and you feel like I'm taking a step back, but it all goes back to what Joy is saying about like they are not you, their data is not your data, you know. You are on your own path, and you have to go through this to be a better version of yourself, and you are a better version of yourself with every choice that you make. Not me.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, 100%. I was just I was just sitting here listening to y'all, which this has been great. Um but what I heard Joy kind of say at the end there was like nothing changes if nothing changes. If you're if you're stuck and you feel stuck and you're trying to, you know, make things change the way you want them to be, but nothing you're doing is worth it working, like nothing changes if nothing changes. You sometimes have to do the big things that are really uncomfortable and hard and don't feel good in the moment, but you know at the end of it it's gonna feel good. Might not be the way you dreamed of it, but it you'll get there.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I think that's the best conclusion of that statement ever.

SPEAKER_00

That's just what I heard you say.

SPEAKER_03

And I think we should also remember, I think Kyle was saying how like you're a better version of yourself. So maybe what we should be comparing ourselves to is our previous versions. Like, are you better than you were before? Like, am I am I growing? Am I changing? Am I changing for the better or am I becoming a worse version of myself? Right. So constant change, but change for the positive.

SPEAKER_00

100% agree. I will say I had um probably like five and seven years ago, really when I got into personal development, one of the things that I did that I need to do again, and I challenge you guys both to do is I I would have to look it up, don't get me lying to you. But there's a there's a site that you can go to and you can write a letter to the past version of yourself as the future version. And then you get an email, you like tied an email, and like one was like five years, one was like three years, and one was like five years. And so I just randomly got this email from myself like three years prior. And I was like, wow. Well, that didn't go the way that I planned, but this did, you know, and it was it's very powerful. Very powerful exercise.

SPEAKER_03

Well, I didn't know they have a site for that. I actually write myself, I think I wrote myself a letter, but I put it on my calendar. And it was just more like just put it six months from now, and it pops up, and it's like I I just keep updating it with okay. This is where I am. This hasn't, I think, I think I've been doing this since like 2019. Every six months I get like this letter to myself on my calendar, and I will update it. Like, okay, so it's six months later. Did I actually accomplish what I wanted to do? What has changed? It's you know, so I love that.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, I love that. It's I I'm telling you, I got the email and I was just like, wait, what's this? Oh, I forgot I did this. And I was like, oh my gosh, and I could like go back to where I was at, what was going on, and then like where I'm at now, and it's it's a very powerful thing, I think.

SPEAKER_04

I think it's powerful in general, just the notion of trying to yeah, trying to communicate with your prior self, you know, your younger self. Because at the end of the day, um at the end of the day, we're just we're all just grown-ass children, right? But I mean, we are these children with these fears and anxieties and wounds that um are taking their sweet time to heal. And we're all just walking about in your 30s or 40s, 50s, whatever. Um we're just taller versions of what we were when we were five years old. You know? And when we were young, we were all we were afraid of so many things, right? We were afraid of the world, we were afraid of acceptance, we were afraid of this, that, and a third. And perhaps some of those things that we shed as we get older and wiser and learn, acquire data. But we have certain core certain core wounds that stay with us perpetually and I think hold us back. Uh, you know, Joy and I talked about the notion of again, uh, acceptance uh or approval rather, getting approval from our leaders or whoever uh to make decisions. I need to make sure that what I want to do is approved or sounds like a good idea. Does this sound like a good idea, you know? And that's something that we are not we haven't shook until now. And we're like saying, well, we could just make decisions. I can go to Jamaica and that's it. You know, that's it. I made a decision and I'm doing it. Now I'm in Jamaica. So um, but in order to in order to shed that, it comes a certain level of we have to be we we have to be comfortable with being uncomfortable. And that's something we've talked about several times on this podcast. I think we dedicated an episode towards it. Uh, but you have to be okay with feeling uncomfortable and taking paths that may not work. Or you know, how many, I mean, how many successful people say that, right? Like they say, I had to fail so many times before I succeeded, you know? But we're all afraid of that failure, right, Joy?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, exactly. Who wants to fail? We think everybody started and did it the first time and won. Um, but in reality, it's it's the failures that make you stronger. Like I sometimes will be like, for me, especially when things are hard, I'm I'm running, I'm building a business here, and when things are hard, I'm like, okay, to get strong muscles, you have to break them down.

SPEAKER_03

You have to break down your muscles for them to be stronger. You know, so you just have to like keep doing, and the more you fail, the better you get. Like, if you just went and got like your success in whatever, um, was it really even worth it? Like, it was too easy, you know. You're not strong, you don't have that just grit um to to get yourself through it, um, and to get through hard things. But hard things are how we we get better every day.

SPEAKER_04

Agreed, man.

SPEAKER_00

I can't do this percent, Joy. Like mic drop once again.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, man. And we're about to wrap up this episode, but I um I think I want to just kind of try to sum it up a little bit with uh you know this multi-part conversation on millennials just feeling a sense of, you know, like we're all kind of collectively feel collectively feeling it. And I think we touched on a lot of the reasons why, uh the core reasons why. Um, and we do have an overabundance of data, and it's making us all feel overwhelmed, and it's making us feel like uh yeah, it's this person person X is doing it this way and they're successful, person Y is doing it this way and they're doing successful, and here I am over here. I'm person Z. And here I am, and all this data again, it it it can hinder us on just making a decision. It's like an overabundance of choice in a way. Uh we have over I could do this, I could do that, I could do this, I could do that. Because that's one I think that's one of the many differentiating factors with our generation to say um to say Gen X is a lot of you know, you look at Gen Xers and the boomers before them, when they started careers, right? They tended to stay in them, you know, indefinitely, right? They just built their careers through them and they just stayed in there indefinitely. But you notice how us millennials we're kind of bouncing from one job to another, to another, to another, to the and then we get to the point where we're like, I don't want to do any of this shit anymore. I just quit and I'm just gonna start a YouTube channel, right? I mean, you notice that, Joy? Like that seems to be what a I mean, how many how many times have you seen people and and I and you're one of them, right? Who has decided to just take the leap out of the nine to five corporate world that we were all kind of molded to go into, right?

SPEAKER_03

I think that's that that's kind of the problem. I think everybody thinks that that's the way to go. Um, and it sucks for me because for me, ultimately, that's always been the goal. It was always to have my own business from like before the pandemic. It was always to be remote. It was, you know, but now it's like everybody else is doing it. Everybody's a consultant now. Everybody's like, for the people who decide to remain in the professional like world, it's like they're all consultants. Um, or they're they also want to be like, you know, some type of um guru for lack of a better word. I don't even know what they call them, but they're content creators, like they're all doing travel content creation, they're doing whatever it is, and it's driving me crazy because it's like, okay, so who's actually doing the work? If you're all traveling and like recording and telling us how to live our lives and telling us how to be, you know, the the richest and get rich quick, or whatever the hell people are talking about now. But it drives me crazy because it makes no damn sense. Like somebody has to do the work, somebody's gotta clean the toilets. Like, come on, you know.

SPEAKER_04

Somebody has to clean the toilets, yes. Uh man, I can't think of a way uh a more apt uh quote to end on. But yes, so um, no, but you're absolutely right. And Joy, if you're not, you know, if you're not sick of talking to me and Jess, I want to have you on the next episode where I want to hone in on that specifically on the notion of betting on yourself and just going for what you want, going for that um self-made career and getting out of the nine to five or the corporate world or whatever you want to call it. So I want to have a little bit of a conversation on that and pick your brain on that. And uh, Dial, I know you also have a wealth of knowledge to share there, but I want to have a conversation on that as well on the next episode. But uh, I wanted to thank you for your contributions to this episode. This was a great conversation, and I'm looking forward to talking to you again next week.

SPEAKER_01

I look forward to it. Thanks for having me today.

SPEAKER_04

All right, guys. All right, Joy's gonna be back on the next episode where we talk about betting on yourself. Very much looking forward to that conversation. And listeners, as always, yes, exactly. Um, and all three of us are thankful, and I am very thankful to our listeners uh for listening to us, for supporting us, and for allowing us this platform to speak our minds about whatever it is, whatever existential crisis we have on our minds this week, you know. So that's pretty much where I come from. So until next week, everybody, have a great week and joy, Jessica. Thank you very much for the conversation.