51. Maple Syrup Episode - Marengo, Wisconsin

The Big Deel joins the show to give us an update on the maple syrup harvest season . This is great 

Edited & Produced by Daisie Media 

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:12

Welcome to the Trevor Buck Podcast, episode 51. And we've got the big deal from Moringo, Wisconsin with us. We're calling this the maple syrup episode. So you you've been busy.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

The maple syrup episode.

SPEAKER_03 0:30

Okay, tell us about it.

unknown 0:34

Yeah, it has been a very interesting season.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

Um, we started tapping about the first of the month and collected a little bit, and everything was going hunky-dory till this last week, and all the guys overloaded me with sap to boil. And then we've had some issues with the evaporator.

unknown 1:03

It kept sugaring up the front pan.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

What that means is the sugar sand and the sugar wasn't escaping out into the syrup fast enough, and it would adhere to the pan, and then they just you have to stop the uh evaporation and clean it up and try it again. And ended up doing it three times before we kind of figured out what the problem was.

SPEAKER_03 1:32

Okay. You're not disclosing trade secrets, are you? Yeah. Well, you don't want your competitors to hear what you ran into.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

Well, they need to know what I ran into.

SPEAKER_03 1:47

Okay, so so we gotta talk about this because we have people listening from all over the world. So you you're in Wisconsin, which is a Midwest state in the U.S. So this time of year, we have maple trees, and you go and you put this tap into them, and then the sap or the in some people might call it pitch, or the there's there's liquid inside these trees.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

Yes, on the on maple trees. Predominantly around here we do maple trees, but birch trees work, and there's a couple others, but um your maple, hard maple, there's soft maple, hard maple, and sugar maple, and there's a few others.

unknown 2:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

Uh your sugar maple will give you the highest concentration of sugar in the sap.

SPEAKER_03 2:45

Okay, and so but but these trees are uh they start draining the sap from them at a certain point of the year. Yes. That's after after the winter when it starts to warm up. How how does it work?

SPEAKER_01 3:00

Um in the spring.

SPEAKER_03 3:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

Sometimes it's more winter, but uh as soon as your days start getting uh 35 to 40 during the day and freezing at night, um your sap will run during the day.

unknown 3:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:19

Um ideal, you know, first couple days it really don't matter, but an ideal day would be 40 degrees, sunshine, no wind during the day. Then at night you'd like to have uh say 24, 25 degrees for the night. And what happens when the sun warms up, the sap goes up the tree, as far as I can tell. Okay, and then the freezing night drives it back down into the roots.

unknown 3:53

Right. And so you have this process for a certain amount of time that it goes up and down, up and down, and up and down. And um it does not hurt the trees.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

Some universities it says claims that it actually promotes healthier trees, but I haven't seen any the trees that I tap haven't been damaged in any way, shape, or form.

SPEAKER_03 4:19

Okay, I'm glad you shared that because we have listeners of all aspects of life, and I was worried about you hurting these trees and that you were you were stealing like nutrients from them.

SPEAKER_01 4:30

No, there's plenty enough for everything. And the sap uh yeah, the sap eventually, when it hits the buds of the tree, once the sap gets up high enough, the buds open up, and all sap is totally unedible at that time.

SPEAKER_03 4:55

Interesting. Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 4:57

So it doesn't that's what creates the leaves. The sap goes to make nutrients for the leaves.

SPEAKER_03 5:02

Okay. So this is excess sap that's meant for us to consume that the these trees are sharing with us.

SPEAKER_01 5:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:12

This is amazing.

SPEAKER_01 5:14

Up to about a 12-inch tree. Yeah. Actually, no.

unknown 5:20

From eight to like 18-inch. Well, they don't, yeah, at 18 inch, I'd just put one tap in there. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

Anything 18 to say 24 or a little bit better, you can put two taps. And then anything after that, I don't care if it's from say 30 inch to six feet, uh, they say never more than three taps per tree.

SPEAKER_03 5:51

Okay. And and like I said before, we have new listeners. So when you're tapping a tree, are you using like a an auger bit? Like, how are you drilling into this tree?

SPEAKER_01 6:02

They have special um maple syrup or maple tapping bits.

unknown 6:08

Okay. Uh you only go in inch, inch and a half.

SPEAKER_01 6:14

On a maple tree, you have the heart of the tree, and then you have the sap, and that's most of your maple wood that you purchase is actually considered the sap wood. And you don't want to drill through the sap wood into the heart, or you're not gonna get anything, and it that could slightly discombobulate the tree.

SPEAKER_03 6:41

Okay. So how how do you how do you gauge that depth when you're drilling you're tapping?

SPEAKER_01 6:47

Uh I put a mark and they have special tools, but I guess I'm redneck enough.

unknown 6:57

Um, I try not to do anything under 10 inch, and you can easily go inch, inch and a half. The bit's only the drill part of the bit is only probably two and a half inches. Okay, okay. So it it kind of prevents you. Um and then, you know, many years of tapping and and you just kind of get the feel of it. Yeah, sure, sure. So they make the special bit because they want the outside the hole cut as clean and crisp as possible so that the sap can can come through it easier. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 7:36

And who makes those bits?

SPEAKER_01 7:38

Uh, there's all kinds of different things.

SPEAKER_03 7:40

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

You just pick your poison and go with it.

SPEAKER_03 7:44

Okay. And and I want to ask you about this because we had uh texted early in the week, but uh when it's sap season, it's almost like when they say uh in a harvest or farming season, like what what what what is that term like when when when there's hay, like you're I I can't think of the right term, but like when it's sap season, it's it's on. You're busy. Yeah. It's called sap season. Okay. Okay, but but it it's it's a lot of work. Yes. I mean, it's not it's it's a lot of work. This is serious stuff.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

Yeah. It um well. See, starting last Friday, so Friday, Saturday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and today, um, basically it's been from 4 a.m. till about 8, 9 p.m.

SPEAKER_03 8:37

That's that's incredible. That's that's a lot of hours.

SPEAKER_01 8:41

Mm-hmm. And um it is uh there is lots and lots of people in the Moringo Ashland area doing it.

unknown 8:53

Um the ones that don't run around and visit people that are boiling. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

Mine is a little bit more commercial, but the outside boilers, the people be out there and enjoying the weather and having coffee and visiting and um but then I've had company every day since last Thursday. I got the coffee pot on and some goodies, and and you just keep after it, but I do have in my setup uh a timer set up. Because every ten minutes I throw about three, four sticks of wood into the fire.

SPEAKER_02 9:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

So that's around the clock.

SPEAKER_03 9:42

Around the clock?

SPEAKER_01 9:44

Yeah, when I'm there from my floor until whenever I shut down. Um and then every hour I check the back of my pan to make sure that it's not foaming up. And um I add a substance which is kind of a trade secret. A lot of people know, but um it's organic instead of going to a chemical or get organic chemical to the sap when it boils furiously, after a while it foams and it'll climb right out of the pan and make a mess of everything.

SPEAKER_03 10:26

Okay, that's interesting. So that this is neat to hear because out here in the northwest, in the fall, occasionally um people will go up to the gorge or they'll go and get apples, and we'll do apple cider.

unknown 10:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:39

You know, we'll we'll press apple cider, we'll make apple cider. So in in in the Midwest, Moringo, like spring, it's almost like uh um you look forward to winter coming to an end, and people get together, and you look forward to this time that you're you're making maple syrup. Yeah. That's super awesome.

SPEAKER_01 11:01

Lots of people have smaller pants, and so the family goes out and taps a few trees and boils it down and make a quart, two quart, a couple gallons, whatever.

unknown 11:14

Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_01 11:15

And um, so it's it's very predominant around here. I mean, it's there's plenty of maple.

unknown 11:27

Um, and so I do have I think there's 12 guys this year bringing me sap.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

I custom I custom boil for a select group of guys.

unknown 11:40

Yep, yep. And um they help out, and of course, every night that they have sap, they bring it over.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

And um I have a tester, so when they bring the sap, I can take a little sample and test it to let me know what it'll tell me whether it's 53 to 1 or 21 to 1.

SPEAKER_03 12:09

Okay. And what does that mean? Explain that to us.

SPEAKER_01 12:12

50, well, the Wisconsin kind of the base of Wisconsin is 40 to 1. 40 gallons of sap to one gallon of syrup.

unknown 12:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 12:25

And so that tells me what it is. Um after studying uh the people that do custom boiling, everybody says they test it because some people like to add water and get paid for adding water.

SPEAKER_03 12:45

Oh, so they're selling watered-down products.

SPEAKER_01 12:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:51

See, big big deal, maple syrup. We don't sell watered down products. We sell the pure pure stuff.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

Everybody that brings to me, I have I know for a fact they ain't doing it. But what when I first started, everybody threw it in this big tank, and I boiled it all year, and at the end of the year, okay, this many gallons of sap you brought, and it came out to say 38 to 1. Just pick a number. Yeah, everybody divided it up. But I know for a fact some people have a lot better trees than other people.

unknown 13:33

So to be fair with everybody, yeah, I test it and I go by that number as how much they get.

SPEAKER_02 13:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 13:45

And um we go that route. And everybody's okay with it. Sure, sure, sure. Actually, it's a competition.

SPEAKER_03 13:52

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I believe it. Key now, I I want to talk about this because your uh and I'm gonna share this on our our sites, but your boiling setup looks like a commercial setup, it looks like a a spaceship. But but for these individual people out in Moringo that are just going tapping a couple trees, do they boil it on the stove? Like how, if you don't have what you have, how how does a a homeowner with a couple gallons of sap, how do they boil it?

SPEAKER_01 14:28

Most of them, um, when they start out, they've been around enough people and stuff like this, and they'll find a stainless steel pan somewhere, and they'll take some bricks and make a three-sided thing, kind of like a horseshoe that the pan fits on top, and they build a fire underneath it. And they just add a little bit of sap as the day goes along and it boils down, and they get what they get.

unknown 14:59

Okay, okay. But then as they graduate, there's well, there's many steps up, there's no doubt. Sure.

SPEAKER_01 15:10

Um, but a few of them now have uh found used uh basically what they call divided flat pans, um, which does a pretty good job, and some of them buy new of them, and and it's it's kind of like um you start out and it works pretty good for a couple years, but then you want to do more, so you gotta upgrade.

SPEAKER_03 15:38

Okay, okay. Because it it it's uh the there's so many gallons to boil. Okay, that that makes sense. So the progression leaves to larger equipment.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

Yeah. It depends on people. Some are just content with it, some of them put it in a stainless steel pan, kind of like over the turkey boiler things.

unknown 16:01

Yep. Um little stoves like that. Um, not very many people do it inside the house.

SPEAKER_03 16:09

Okay, okay, okay. And why is that? Why wouldn't you want to do it in the house on the stove?

SPEAKER_01 16:16

So much humidity, number one. Okay. And if you have any kind of accident, it goes all over the stove and a counter floor.

SPEAKER_03 16:25

Okay. It's a mess. It's a mess.

SPEAKER_01 16:27

Yep, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And basically that's kind of how we started. Um, but it's yeah, it's advised of well one year we just did a little bit on the stove and we did it just fine.

SPEAKER_00 16:42

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

And then I kind of as a ex-welder, I kind of monkey around, made my own, and I started out thinking I had something pretty good, and then a couple years later, oh well, we got upgrade.

unknown 16:56

A couple years later, well, we got upgraded.

SPEAKER_03 17:00

Are you thinking of upgrading again?

SPEAKER_01 17:02

No.

SPEAKER_03 17:03

You're you're maxed out.

SPEAKER_01 17:05

Yeah. Um the one I have could actually do uh a little bit more per hour.

SPEAKER_02 17:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 17:17

But um right now on good days, I can boil 48 gallons of sap an hour.

SPEAKER_03 17:28

And your boiler is powered by what?

SPEAKER_01 17:31

Uh wood.

SPEAKER_03 17:33

Okay. And where's the wood coming from?

SPEAKER_01 17:37

I just buy a truckload of it and cut it up, split it, and get it good and dry, and and um move that route.

SPEAKER_03 17:47

Okay, so in Wisconsin, you have an abundance of uh lumber or trees, or like the I want to talk about more about where where you're getting your wood from, because that that's a lot of uh resources.

SPEAKER_01 18:01

Um I've been burning firewood for 30 years here. Um for many years it was 18 to 24 cord a year to heat my shop and house.

unknown 18:14

Yeah. Um the last two years that we got it down to 12 cord because we did some um upgrades on a lot of things. It's definitely helpful. Yeah. And uh the same guy that brings my firewood, he he also he knows he does maple syrup too. So he tries to find some super dry wood. And um, you know, this year I bought uh six cord. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

And cut it and split it, and um, I think I'm gonna have left over.

SPEAKER_03 18:53

Okay. So you know we're uh we're out here on the west coast, but for Wisconsin, what are you paying for a cord of wood in Wisconsin?

SPEAKER_01 19:03

I predominantly burn oak.

unknown 19:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 19:06

Um my firewood for the house, I prefer green because it goes to a boiler, which is very common around here. And but this load that uh it was two years old sitting in a pile, so it was pretty good. Yeah, it's a little bit of maple, a little bit of ash, but predominantly oak.

unknown 19:28

Okay. And um, for that dryer wood, it was a hundred bucks a quart.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

I didn't come eight foot six long, so you gotta cut it, split it. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_03 19:41

Okay, but we we okay, we gotta talk about this because we have listeners from all over the world. Okay, so when you talk about a cord, is it C-O-R-D cord? Yep. Yep, and a cord of firewood is what?

SPEAKER_01 19:58

Four foot by four foot by eight foot. So four foot, four foot long, four foot wide, four foot tall, four foot wide, and the trees are actually eight foot six long.

SPEAKER_03 20:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

But they call it eight foot.

SPEAKER_03 20:15

Okay, and these are round trees.

SPEAKER_01 20:18

Round trees, all different sizes, and and um most of your firewood's gonna have crotches in it, and it's not terrible mice wood, but you can it definitely burns whether it's crossways or upside down.

SPEAKER_03 20:34

Okay. So and you're using different um what do you want to say? You're using different woods for your firewood versus the the maple syrup boiler?

SPEAKER_01 20:46

Um, normally it's I use all oak.

SPEAKER_03 20:50

Okay. Um and what do you like about the oak firewood?

SPEAKER_01 20:57

The oak, green oak, leaves very little ashes um in a boiler.

unknown 21:06

Okay. Um household my house is heated by hot water baseboard.

SPEAKER_01 21:13

And um, if I burn maple after three, four days, half my firebox is full of clinkers, and I'd gotta shovel them out and get rid of them, and it's it's just not a nice feature. So if you burn green oak, you don't have that much um clinkers, you know, kind of looks like charcoal that don't burn or something.

unknown 21:39

Okay, okay. And goes down to just a very fine ash.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

And that's what most people that have outdoor boilers, which is mine is considered an outdoor boiler, but um that's what everybody found out works the best.

unknown 21:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

Now if you had uh A wood truck as type of uh kind of wood fired stove in your basement. Um most people like dried maple.

SPEAKER_02 22:14

Interesting. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

And then far as my uh evaporator, it really don't matter what I have, but um if I burn too much maple, I think that's kind of like cannibalism.

SPEAKER_02 22:30

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

Maple tree heating heating up, no, it don't matter, but it's it um oak is still a little bit better in there, as far as I'm concerned.

SPEAKER_03 22:43

No, that's great. So okay, so I want to ask you this. So all of um you you've been working hard at um harvesting the sap, you've been boiling it. So now have you been bottling it already?

SPEAKER_01 22:58

Not yet. I've been so busy.

SPEAKER_03 23:01

Okay, so so so where the maple syrup is stored where right now?

SPEAKER_01 23:08

It's in five-gallon buckets.

SPEAKER_03 23:10

Okay, and where is it at?

SPEAKER_01 23:12

It's in my uh shop.

SPEAKER_03 23:14

Okay.

unknown 23:15

With zero heat in there to keep it cool. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:19

Um it's not filtered, it's just been dumped right off the stove into these five gallon buck five-gallon buckets. And the next step from that is warm them up, double test everything, and you I'll heat them up to about 180 to 190 degrees, and test the sugar content, make sure it's maple syrup that I would like to sell to people or give to somebody, um, and then filter it, and then we bottle it.

SPEAKER_03 23:53

Okay, so I I wanna I want to go back to that. So you you've harvested the sap, you've brought it into your boiler, now it's in five gallon buckets.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

Now you you need to do you need to put it in finishing pan, basically, another pan that's propane on the.

SPEAKER_03 24:13

So now now you need to heat it again.

SPEAKER_01 24:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 24:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 24:18

Um get it up to 180 to filter.

SPEAKER_02 24:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

When you filter or bottle, anywhere from 180 to 190 degrees is the temperature that you want to run. Number one, it goes through the filters better and um because it's more liquid, and but anytime you get over 190 degrees, you actually start taking more liquid out of it.

unknown 24:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 24:48

And, you know, if you're if you pull it off of your evaporator at the right thing, you really can't afford too much more liquid or water or sap out of it, because then it starts crystallizing. But um, and then when you bottle it, you want to bottle it at 180 to 190 degrees, so that you're if you're doing jars or plastic jugs or whatever, it's warm enough for them to seal.

SPEAKER_03 25:24

Okay, and I want to ask you this are are you all sold out for this season?

unknown 25:30

Um, a lot of people have been asking me, and all I say is I do not know until the season's over with.

SPEAKER_03 25:37

Okay, so how do people find you if if there because this is an amazing story, and I want people to realize we've talked about the efforts that have gone into this. So if you want if you want pure maple syrup, there is some serious efforts, labor hours, equipment behind it. Yeah, there is so if you want to go buy a$3 jar of Aunt Jemima's from your big box store, go for it. But if you want something that tastes amazing, how do people find your maple syrup?

SPEAKER_01 26:16

Um, I'm kind of holding off on that one.

SPEAKER_03 26:25

Big, big deals getting worried about being too famous.

SPEAKER_01 26:29

No, no, no, no, it's not famous, not having any.

SPEAKER_03 26:32

Okay, okay.

unknown 26:34

This season's been kind of unique in the shape that I'm thinking I think it'd be much longer and we're gonna be done.

SPEAKER_02 26:42

Okay. I just posted uh a story on Facebook on the buds.

SPEAKER_01 26:52

You know, popple trees are already budding, maples ain't very hard be far behind it. And the issue was there's too many, too many warm nights so far this year.

unknown 27:05

Okay. Um what happens on a warm night is the sap keeps going up. The tree won't come back down. Right. And eventually it's gonna hit them buds, and it uh it takes all the sugar out of it immediately, so it's very bitter, very disgusting tasting.

SPEAKER_01 27:30

So I try to be careful this time of the year because one tree, say I got 500 gallon sap in a tank, and somebody brings a five-gallon bucket from one tree that has buds, it'll ruin that whole 500 gallons.

unknown 27:48

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 27:50

And it's and it's it's a serious thing.

unknown 27:53

Sure. Um but I I haven't figured out how to okay, you can't bring me no more because I know your button, but you might be okay. Okay, okay. So I just I'll just I kind of pay attention. Yep. Um, and if they start showing up, I'll say you got one more day, and then that's it. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 28:21

Yeah, you don't you don't want to ruin a whole batch by somebody who's bringing you sap. Well, that's been right.

SPEAKER_01 28:27

500 gallons of sap definitely makes some syrup. Right, right.

SPEAKER_03 28:32

Exactly. So I want to ask you this. This is kind of uh we're changing topics here, but so when it comes to your syrup, which is delicious by the way, thank you for uh uh I still enjoy it, but do you have any interesting recipes or like different meals that you enjoy it on? Because I I enjoy it on pancakes or waffles, whatever, but but people use maple syrup for all sorts of sweetening.

SPEAKER_01 29:02

Yes. Okay, so I can't say I have any recipes or anything, but uh around here there's people that the only time they eat maple syrup is when they have ice cream.

SPEAKER_02 29:15

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 29:18

Um I guess I'm not a terrible big fan of it.

SPEAKER_03 29:22

Sure, but they put the maple syrup on ice cream. Yeah. But people use maple syrup for sweeteners of I mean it could be any any sort of recipe.

SPEAKER_01 29:32

A lot of people use it in their coffees.

SPEAKER_03 29:35

Okay.

unknown 29:37

Um I know the work and all that that goes into it. Yeah. So I just like my waffles and fence posts, and um, that's I don't eat terrible many pancakes. Okay, but the mother two, uh I mean that's to me is you you can't get a better breakfast than that.

SPEAKER_03 30:01

Right. What's a you said fence post. What's a fence post? French toast. Oh, French toast. Okay, yes, yes, yes. Yes, it's a French toast, yes. We we know what French toast is.

SPEAKER_01 30:17

Well, in this house it's fence post.

SPEAKER_03 30:19

Oh, is that is that really what you call it?

SPEAKER_01 30:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:22

Oh, really? Okay, I thought my I thought my hearing was going bad. That's great.

SPEAKER_01 30:33

I don't know where it comes from if the kids call it. I love it. Whatever, but it's always been fence post, dude.

SPEAKER_03 30:39

I love it. And what kind of uh French bread do you use to make that?

SPEAKER_01 30:45

We really we don't get too special.

SPEAKER_03 30:47

Okay.

unknown 30:48

Um just kind of your regular white and with cinnamon on it, and and as far as I'm concerned, there's nothing better than just I'll have usually two of them.

SPEAKER_02 30:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

First one have butter and peanut butter and maple syrup.

SPEAKER_02 31:02

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 31:03

And then the second one, just butter and maple syrup. I love it. Love it. I'm good to go.

SPEAKER_03 31:09

Love it. You're making me hungry.

SPEAKER_01 31:12

Also, there's gotta be an egg with it, and of course, you know, your sausage or bacon or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 31:17

Oh, okay, okay. So you're okay.

SPEAKER_01 31:23

And predominantly that's just Sunday mornings before church. So it's gotta carry me through until after church is over, or somebody gets very hangry.

SPEAKER_03 31:33

Okay. That is I I love yeah. Thank you for sharing that. That was very special. Okay, so so I'm gonna wrap this up. I'm gonna close this and I'll talk to you offline. But this episode was edited and produced by Daisy Media. Good night. Thank you.