Sam Collette: Career Passions & Conduct Fashions

Samantha Collette studied fashion in college, but fell in love with her R.A. job. Now, she combines both of her superpowers as a conduct professional at her alma mater. Hear about the way she weaves her educational philosophy into relationships of respect, trust and magical authenticity with students. She's the "cool girl" on campus who eases fears and promotes reflective learning. When you're done listening, you might consider adding lemonade, fish earrings or a pair of skates to your conduct toolkit. Follow Sam's Fashion Forward Higher Ed on LinkedIn.

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Theme music "Fuzzball Parade" by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:09

Hello and welcome to Ms. Behavior. I'm Colette.

SPEAKER_01 0:13

And I'm Kurt.

SPEAKER_02 0:14

And we are thrilled to have a guest we wanted to have on here for a while. Samantha Colette. Sam, welcome.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

Hi, thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

It was so cool to meet you in person, and now we get your first post-conference interview.

SPEAKER_02 0:31

We were a little nervous, Sam, to be honest. I w I was texting Kurt. What are you gonna wear?

SPEAKER_01 0:36

I pulled a special outfit from the archive just for this interview.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

That is very exciting.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

This is my the splurge purchase I made for myself when I got my first Dean job was this Louis Vuitton shirt, and I think I maybe at this point wear it once a year, so I pulled it out of the back of the closet for this.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

Oh, I feel very special.

SPEAKER_02 0:55

So, Sam, tell the world who you are. What would you want people to know about you?

SPEAKER_00 1:00

Sure. I'm Sam. I'm the coordinator of community standards at Framingham State, which is my undergraduate institution. I love it there so so much. But originally I got my degree in fashion design from them. So now I really think of myself as a student affairs professional, but also like getting fashion into it. I have on my LinkedIn Fashion Forward Higher Ed. So I think the first thing I want people to know about me is that I love higher ed and that I love clothes.

SPEAKER_02 1:31

I noticed you uh, gosh, it must have been a few months ago at one of the ASCA Zoom meetings. I can't remember which subcommunity it was at, but it wasn't your fashion. People were going around talking about what were they excited about for the new semester. Sometimes there's a quality of gloom and doom in those rooms. And you just said, I don't know if you remember, I can't wait for the students to get there.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

Yeah, yeah. And I share that we're we have one more week and then we'll have spring break. And I'll be sad to be without students for a week. I think it's so fun to have them on campus. And I have an intern and a mentee, and I just feel like they make my world go around. So I feel like when they're not there, I'm so sad. So yeah, I was so happy to have them back for the spring.

SPEAKER_02 2:16

Can you tell us your origin story? So you started as an undergrad at Framingham, and then how did you become what we see?

SPEAKER_00 2:25

Yeah, totally. So I was at Framingham State studying fashion design, and my freshman year, I was like, I'm not gonna be an RA. Okay, within a month, I was like, I need to be an RA. And so I was like shadowing my RA, and then I ended up being an RA for three years. I was like the senior RA for two. I loved orientation, and I was thinking about like, okay, like fashion is so fun, but I like it for me. I like it to fill my own cup, and I was like, but I love working with other students and I love being a student leader. And I was talking to my supervisors and I was like, wait, like I could do this as a career, that's so cool. And then I went to UMass Amherst for grad school and I studied higher education with a focus in policy. I was actually gonna do a dual degree in higher ed and public policy. But I was like, I can't be an Amherst any longer. I need a city, I'm a city girl. So I cut that a little short. But I have my master's in higher ed, and then after that I was job searching, and I was like, I just like want to be back home like in Framingham so bad, and and now I'm back and I've been working there for um over a year and a half now, and it's been so fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 3:35

I was gonna ask about your school. What is the primary focus of the school that you work at?

SPEAKER_00 3:40

Yeah, it's a four-year state school, so it's a pretty typical, like smaller state school in maths. We have about 4,000 students. It's definitely like a liberal arts institution. Their main areas that they draw people in are education. It was primarily like a teacher's college when it had originated. So it's teaching, the fashion program is actually very good, especially the merchandising program, and then nutrition, those tend to be the three ones.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

Yeah. Was going back there kind of like getting to see inside the teacher's lounge in high school? Like I always wondered, like, can you go home again? And what's that like?

SPEAKER_00 4:16

It sort of felt like that a little bit. I feel like as a student, I was like really connected to the people that are now my co-workers, so it felt a little bit more natural. But I think when I first started, it was kind of interesting to see because I work within the Dean of Student's office, I was like, oh, these really higher up people, but now I get to really see their personality shine, and I'm like, wait, this is such a fun inside scoop to all of this. One of my closest co-workers is the associate dean, and we just get to have like girl talk in her office, or like I'll gallop into her office, and it's just it's so funny to think that when I was a student, I was like, okay, these are very high up people. I want to really keep it together. And now I'm like, Rachel, what are we gonna talk about today?

SPEAKER_02 4:57

Were you always good with grown-ups? Because there are some people I still to this day would probably call Dr. So and so or Dean so and so.

SPEAKER_00 5:08

I think I've always been pretty comfortable. I don't think I've ever taken myself super seriously. Like I've always tried to balance being professional while also being really silly, and so I think that sort of played into like seeming like the adult 18-year-old, but also staying true to myself. So yeah, I s I think I was always good with adult.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

I am curious about how you bring this fashion forward element into your practice. What does that look like for you?

SPEAKER_00 5:34

Yes, I honestly the way that I've always thought about getting dressed in the morning is like I'm sort of like a cartoon character avatar, and we're gonna bring that air into the day. But it's been really fun at work because I've always loved professional dress. Like I remember being 16, 17, 18 and being like, I really wish I could wear a blazer and it wouldn't be weird right now. And so I think it's so fun now to think about all of my creative elements with fashion, but I can also wear my fancy clothes. And so when I get dressed in the morning, sometimes I try to have like a theme, or I live with two of my best friends, and I'll be like, Okay, like I need like two words to describe what my outfit's gonna be for tomorrow. Let's have a little collaborative effort here. And so the other day I was like, Okay, one of you needs to tell me a color, and then one of you needs to tell me either dress, skirt, or pants. And so they said orange and dress, and so I had like an orange jacket, and then I had a white dress with peaches all over it, and it was so fun. So it I think it's fun to incorporate my friends into it, but I always every day try to think of something that a student could comment on, just something. Um, because I think, especially working in student conduct, they're already coming in nervous, and so I think sometimes when I enter the space and I'm like, hi, I'm Sam, like we're gonna be meeting today, and if they they're like, I get to meet with the cool girl today. Sometimes I feel like it it establishes some trust with them already, and so I'm like, okay, like if I'm getting ready today but I'm wearing all black, maybe I'll wear really fun earrings. Like say I'm wearing some fish earrings, or I'm like, okay, I'll wear like a brighter color. I wear a lot of bright teal. And so I'm like, anything that can be kind of fun that they can comment on, that's what we need.

SPEAKER_01 7:13

I love how you use fashion as a bridge for students, because we were just talking in the last episode about how fashion can be a barrier, or what you wear can be a barrier to meeting with students. When I was in grad school, I worked at a very large research institution, and I was surprised when they said that we could wear shorts and polo shirts to work, and it was because our director had a philosophy that if you wear uh a tie and a suit or a blazer, it creates a power dynamic with students. And if we're trying to uh build leadership skills or build rapport with students, that that is not maybe something that syncs up so well. So I love that that you're using it as a bridge.

SPEAKER_00 7:53

Yeah, that's really interesting. I sort of when I started in this position, I really leaned into the blazer heels, like wearing a lot of black, and I still do, because sometimes I'm like, I need to slay the day away looking very sleek, looking very cool. But I think I really leaned into it at first because I am younger, and I was like, I feel like I also need students to see me as being in a role of respect, and maybe if I wear my fun clothes, I don't know if they will. So I I think it was kind of hard to establish that at first, but a lot of my coworkers will wear business casual or on Fridays. We do a lot of spirit wear, and I think that's really fun for the students to get involved in that too.

SPEAKER_02 8:33

There's lots of questions I have about authenticity and age privilege. Can I wear things now that are a little kookier because I'm older and I don't have to convince students that I have authority, but I actually don't want to convey authority. I always want to just convey down to earth, easy to talk to, okay to tell the truth vibe. I'm terrible at having a question to go with my ponderings, Sam, but um yeah, as you think about that for yourself, has there been an evolution?

SPEAKER_00 9:10

Um, I think here and there, and that sentiment has actually come from the vice president that I work for. She had made a comment about like as she's getting older, she feels like she can dress a little kookier. I think you can wear whatever you want at any age, really. And I think as I was doing some reflecting on, like, I want students to respect me, I think that also comes from the trust that you build and the conversation that you have with them. I don't think you should go to work wearing your Sunday sweats, surely not. But I think if you are walking into a space and you are confident in the way that you're presenting yourself, and that could be the quirky clothes, it could be something that's more like suit and tie. If you're confident in it, I think that's huge, and students recognize that. I think you can hide behind any sort of an outfit, but I think it's really gonna be in the conversation and establishing trust, and then at that point they might decide, oh wait, this this woman's wearing kind of an interesting outfit. I actually I kind of like that, like I kind of like her more because she seems like cool. Um, and I've definitely found that one of my favorite things to do is wear kind of a serious outfit and then have really ridiculous shoes on. Um, and I have a pair of black heels that have a big pom-pom on them, and I call them my grunge tinkerbell heels. But I think that's sort of like how do you play into like wanting to look, you know, the part with like your black heels, but then also being like, yeah, but it's a little fun. So I think there's really room for interpretation, but as long as you can own it, like that's the biggest thing.

SPEAKER_01 10:40

I do like that I it also sounds like you're creating space or or role modeling individuality because I do think that for a lot of students when they go to college and they don't know anybody, it becomes about conforming and trying to fit in, and you kind of putting yourself out there and wearing something kooky or or different, uh, it starts to create that space where students can think, oh, maybe I don't have to just fit in with everybody else. It's very cool.

SPEAKER_00 11:07

I like that a lot too. I think a lot of students wear like sort of the same thing. It's like a lot of sweatpants, it's like the same sort of like the grout fit sort of thing. But I do always try to have this reciprocal effort where if a student seems interested in what I'm wearing, I'll try to pick up something of theirs, or even right off the bat. Sometimes I go to meet students and I meet them in the main Dean of Students office suite, and right away away I'll be like, oh wait, I really like that backpack, or like those pants you're wearing are really cool. And so it sort of builds the back and forth of we can even just connect right off the bat about clothes. You have to see what someone's wearing, so it's easy to build a connection there.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

Speaking of which, we didn't do a fit check for you, and I'm enjoying the top that you have on here. What's going on?

SPEAKER_00 11:48

Oh, so um this shirt I love so much. It's silk, which makes it a pain at the butt when I have to wash it. But um, I actually wore this my first day working at Framingham State. Love it so much. It's my favorite colors. And then this jacket, fun story about it, it's the mint like motorcycle jacket, and it's like kind of a soft texture, like you'd think maybe it'd be leather, but it's very soft. I got it when I was like 15. It was, I think, at the first thing that I got off Depop, which is where I spend a lot of my money is on Depop. But I thought I had gotten rid of it, and a couple weeks ago, my mom texted me a picture of it, and she was like, Do you still want this jacket? Like it's kind of in hiding in the house. And I was like, oh my gosh, my jacket. So I was so happy to have it back, and then I was thinking about like, what am I gonna wear today? I'm like, I have to look cool. My bottom half, I'm not gonna lie, I'm in leggings. Like, it's fully worth our Saturday clothes. Um, but I was like, I have to look really cool on the top app. And I was like, these are the colors that I always feel most myself in is like greens, teals, like light yellow. And I was like, I have to look cool. So that's sort of the pitch back.

SPEAKER_01 12:51

Accomplished. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 12:52

I love it. Uh I'm gonna go back to the authenticity theme. Something that drives me bananas, and I'd love your thoughts on it, is when people equate professionalism with like just scouring anything interesting or real about themselves and and labeling that as professionalism as opposed to just being yourself and showing, especially students, that you are a real human with real stuff going on, and I have a feeling you might be a model of just being you.

SPEAKER_00 13:36

Thank you. I appreciate you feeling that way, and I I do really try to hold that. I think like some of the conduct hearings that I have do feel a little bit robotic, especially if students are not sort of given given back to like what I'm trying to put out there. But like with a lot of my students, like we do connect on something, or like I'll share something about myself. Something that I always end my hearings with is like, like, what are you doing the rest of the day? What are you doing this weekend? What's something that you're looking forward to? Like, you've had this stressful meeting, like, what's the next positive thing that's coming up? And so they'll share, and then oftentimes they're like, Well, what are you doing? And then I will I have no problem giving them a glance, like, glance into you know my weekend. So, like I was telling Kurt earlier, I'm now getting into adult ice skating lessons. Very fun, so good. I could talk about that too. Um, but it's wonderful. But I had a hearing with a girl the other day, and she was so sweet, and she she really she came so prepared too. She's the only person I really had that came with like notes, she was highlighting things. I was like, Okay, you're doing really well. But I had made a comment about her talking to one of the area directors, and I was like, Oh, and by the way, when you go to meet with Clara, ask her about the ice skating lessons that we take together. And so it was really cute. It was a glance into my life and also the person that she was about to meet with. And then I saw Clara this morning and she was like, Yeah, the student brought it up, and then we were talking about ice skating. So I think even just sharing like that authenticity and like I have a hobby, I'm a human, and then it connected her to like the next person that she was gonna talk to. So it was really excellent. Or like something that I bring up with students a lot is um if I ask where they're from, I'll say, like, what's your favorite place to go to eat there? Um, and I'll try to talk about that, and then we'll have a conversation about food. So, really, kind of anything that gives more of an insight instead of just okay, we're talking about violations. No, there's other things going on that are way cooler.

SPEAKER_02 15:21

Kurt, you might appreciate. I don't know, Sam, if you are a watcher of the traitors.

SPEAKER_00 15:27

I have not seen it, but I've heard it's really good.

SPEAKER_02 15:30

One episode will make you addicted for sure. I met a student in a hearing this week who is writing an honors thesis about Big Brother and like the sociology of reality TV shows, and man, was that like a hook. And and we probably talked about it 10 minutes before we even started the hearing, but I I do think that's fun. And you're even taking that a step further into the power of a warm handoff. Our college is trying to work on that right now, where we have colleagues that are like, don't make people come see me. Like, no, no, no. I I'm telling them that you're cool and like they should want to come see you, and like seeing you would make their day. But working on that warm handoff, that ice skating story is perfect. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 16:22

It's been really fun to connect with students in all kinds of ways. So that's just one right now. But I can't wait to see what the next thing is.

SPEAKER_02 16:28

And it's probably hundreds of things. All right, tell us about the ice skating.

SPEAKER_00 16:32

Okay, so um, of course, I like everyone else, was very invested in the Olympics. I think Madison Chalk of Chalk and Baits is like maybe the coolest person ever. And so I became very enamored with it. And I had taken ice skating lessons as a child, but I started to get scoliosis, and so my doctor was like, none of that anymore. And so I was pulled out. And so my fond memory with my like rose-colored lenses is like I loved it so much. Like, I loved ice skating, and so I got back into it, and I've been taking lessons at the local rink, and I love it, and I do it with my coworker, and I like really want to be very good at it. But I went home to see my parents last weekend, and I was telling them about it, and my dad, this is such a dad thing, but he was like, you know, you didn't even really like it that much. I was like, I was like, I thought I was chasing my long-lost love, and you just told me I didn't even like it that much.

SPEAKER_01 17:29

So he took it away from you twice, is what you're telling us.

SPEAKER_02 17:35

So, what can you do now? Can you go forward on one foot like a swan?

SPEAKER_00 17:41

I can go forward, I can go forward on one foot a little bit. I can go pretty quickly forward, I can sort of go backwards. And then today we were working on our crossovers, which is like when your foot like comes in front and then you're like kind of turning. They're very hard, and I am not very good at it, but I am determined to be able to do it. And then when I go to the public skates at Rinks, I'm working on trying to do spins. Oh I can do one very slowly.

SPEAKER_02 18:10

That crossover when you literally have blades on your feet does sound challenging.

SPEAKER_01 18:16

The agility I don't possess any of it, so kudos to you.

SPEAKER_02 18:20

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 18:21

I was secretly hoping that the inspiration for ice skating might have been heated rivalry, but the Olympics just as good of a reason.

SPEAKER_00 18:30

I haven't seen heated rivalry yet either. I have been so slammed at work that all of my TV watching is so behind and I can't keep up with any of the social trends. Um, but I my co-workers really love heated rivalry.

SPEAKER_01 18:44

You may need to carve out six hours over spring break, and uh I will expect a full report.

unknown 18:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 18:54

I did my homework. I feel like somewhere in this ice skating thing, there is a student conduct metaphor that I'm searching for.

SPEAKER_00 19:05

There has to be somewhere. My biggest thing this year has been lemons. I'm equating student conduct with lemons and lemonade. And so we have a program coming up next month, just a kind of like a meet and greet with student conduct, which it's me. I'm like I'm the office. But I'll I'll invite my residence life professional staff members who are also my hearing officers. But we're just gonna stand outside and hand out lemonades and stress balls and talk about how student conduct is a big ol' lemon, but you can make it lemonade if you learn a lesson.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

I like it. I like it.

SPEAKER_02 19:38

I read a book, and now I can't think of it, a couple years ago about brain science. I had worked in an academic support center for a few years in my career, and I had learned as you study stuff, your brain grows a little nubbin of a like a new offshoot. And then the more you study something, it grows as a dendrite, like a little tree and expands. And the more you study, the further it it launches out. Now they have discovered that the more you study the this thing called myelin covers what the little trees are. And so, but the only way to grow that myelin that protects that learning is to make mistakes. And I feel like ice skating, you can't just watch and watch and read and read, like you have to go and fall down. Oh yeah. But if it's too hard, maybe like as a kid, you quit. Um and it has to be at that sweet friction spot where it's just hard enough that you have to keep doing it.

SPEAKER_00 20:49

I think that's it. Except with kids, kids are like so not fearful. Like, I honestly the kids that I like skate with, they're like charging, they're falling, and like they're good. So I don't know if they're the ones quitting. Maybe it's the adults who get nervous, but yeah, um, no, I think mistakes are so so key. In one of my LinkedIn posts, I had talked about how I don't like to equate college with not the real world, but I do think college is a great place for folks to make mistakes because I think the consequences are often the same, but I think there's way more support to it. And so if we're going back to ice skating, I think it's like whether or not you have like a helmet and knee pads on. So it's like college can be your helmet and your knee pads, and in the real world, maybe you're just skating on the ice in in a tutu. I don't know, but if you fall, it's gonna be way worse.

SPEAKER_02 21:43

I wasn't even picturing you in a helmet, I was picturing you in a spangly outfit.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

I wish you're a Lapinski in your head. I know you did.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

Yeah, I wish in um no, for the lessons you have to wear a helmet. Uh Today was kind of funny because my ice skating coat is a purple north face, and a ton of the little girls in a different class were all wearing purple coats. Like, oh. Well, at least I'm in uniform.

SPEAKER_03 22:17

There you go.

SPEAKER_02 22:19

Oh lady, wearing the purple coat. Trying to be like us.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

I'm nowhere near as cool as those little girls.

SPEAKER_02 22:28

Or they might think you're a celebrity.

SPEAKER_00 22:31

Maybe. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 22:33

I I think you make such a great point though. I always said that I liked working in student contact because we were helping students as they were figuring out how to manage their own dependence. And it's nice that we can do that in a supportive environment where instead of going to jail, they get to come and talk to somebody cool who has a nice outfit on and uh is gonna guide them through uh to the next part of the journey. I think it's a neat analogy.

SPEAKER_00 22:57

Well, I think about with college, like you're you can make a mistake that could result in you like losing your housing or like losing guest privileges or losing something like that. And that's so real. I mean, I think that's very similar to like getting evicted. But when we're talking about like the warm handoff, like in real life, like you're gonna get evicted and they're gonna like kick you on the way out. And here it's like, okay, like you made a mistake, but now like let's get you connected to counseling or housing insecurity or the dean of students office. So it's like I think it's wonderful that people are gonna make mistakes, so you might as well do it when you're 19 and you have people who really care about you than to be like 30 and be like, I'm getting kicked out of my house, like and encouraging them to just lean into that experience for all they can get.

SPEAKER_02 23:41

Are are you pretty open with sharing with them um missteps you've had along the way? Because I think there's a fine line between making it about yourself and suddenly like you've taken away from the attention to them, but also being real, like we've all been there and I can empathize with why you're so scared.

SPEAKER_00 24:04

I think in terms of the the conduct for like alcohol or drugs, I there's not much to share because I was an R and I was terrified to lose that job. But the ones that I do get that I can share with students is like I have folks who come in for like dating concerns or dating violence, and so I even had someone in um yesterday and she was talking about egging someone on because she wants a little bit of toxicity, a little passion in the relationship. And I was like, Okay, girl, I get it. I don't want a boring relationship, you need something fun going on. Of course, I get it, but then when we start to see he's yelling at you, what's what is it worth? Is it worth all of that? You know, thinking about that. So I honestly think I I have opened up more when folks are talking about healthy dating relationships. Because I remember what it was like to be 19 and not have a clue what a healthy relationship looked like at all. No one really teaches you that, um, which it should be taught way more. And I think counseling centers are getting a little better about helping students with that, but that's really where I've been able to empathize with students. You thought that was maybe a good decision in the moment, and you had this argument, but is it really worth then getting into a situation where now you might not be able to live on campus because you get so deep into this? I don't know. And that's sort of like kind of and this sounds silly, but like some of the humor can come out too. So I was talking to this girl and she was like, Well, this new guy buys me stuff. And I was like, And I was like, get your bag, sis, but also the second he yells at you, leave. You know, so I think it's it's you have to be real with students and you have to open up, like, yeah, like I can see that perspective, but also keep yourself safe.

SPEAKER_02 25:47

You know what I loved about the SAM is that you made them the adult that you didn't tell them what to do, but you're like, is that worth it for you? And they get to answer that question, not you. Um I just want to encourage more of that in our field. Like you expand their worldview a little bit, and then you hand it to them like a gift, like this is your decision as an adult.

SPEAKER_00 26:13

A big question that I've been asking students lately is if you could do this over again, would you do it the same or would you do it differently? And that's been a big reflection moment for us because I have had students who are like, honestly, I'd probably do the same thing. And I'm like, okay, okay, it's not much I can do for you right now. Maybe I'll see you in a month. I don't know. But like, you know, I'll tell I'll try to encourage it the best that I can, but okay. But I do have a lot of students who are like, no, I've really thought about it, and I can see now that that was not the best decision for myself and then the other people around me. And I have a lot of students who are even really forthcoming with their family. Like I've asked folks, like, you know, what is like what do your parents think about this? Have you been able to talk to your parents about it? And they're like, Yeah, these were their thoughts. And I'm like, okay, it sounds like you have a really good, you know, family support system there. That's really good. I'm glad you were able to trust them and and talking about the situation. So that question has really opened a big door of what would you do differently if you could do it again? Because honestly, a lot of these situations they might not be the exact same, but for students it could be really similar, and they're gonna have to make a similar choice.

SPEAKER_02 27:15

I've had risk um as my like conversation thread this year. Like, yeah, you know, I just want you to think about what level of risk are you comfortable taking on, and then how do you assert that, or um how do you support your own boundary there? But I'm not gonna surveil you, like I'm gonna let you make that decision. But who do you have to talk to too? Do you have to talk to your roommates? Do you have to talk to your friends about things that have just been accepted?

SPEAKER_00 27:43

The friends one is huge. I have a lot of conversations with students, especially with like covered smoke detector, bane of my existence. Uh, but a lot of that conversation is like, you know, I'm gonna tell you all this information, and I really hope that when we leave here today, you can go back to your room and sit down with your suite mates and be like, hey, like this lady just told me some information, like maybe we should talk about it. Because I'll tell them, you know, like it I think it'd be really unfortunate if I saw you back in my office in a month because then your friends made a a decision that you got dragged into. And I was like, so if you can educate your friends right now and sort of save everyone from that situation, that's really the best thing that you can do.

SPEAKER_02 28:20

There's also a um honoring of good intentions, which seems to be controversial these days, but you're honoring their intent. Like, I'm sure you have no intent when you cover that smoke detector of putting anyone's life in danger. I'm positive that you don't. And yet here we are. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:40

It is it's opening up a conversation about empathy, too. I mean, at the end of the day, I think when I was that age, I probably was not thinking about other people and whether or not you know, uh you assume the risk of putting your own life in danger, but when you frame it like you're framing it, which is this has unintended consequences for other people, it does change the stakes. So it's a it's an interesting tactic tactic.

SPEAKER_00 29:06

Yeah, and we even will zoom out more than that too. Like a lot of the folks who are covering their smoke detector, and like the first assumption is like they're covering it so that they can, you know, smoke or they can use a vape or something. A lot of the students that I meet with are like trying to do their hair or light a candle. And so I have like kind of I have like two like trains of thought with that, and like with the candles, I'm like, okay, like I get it. Like I light my candle at night too, but like for me, it's just me. And you're living in a building that there's 400 other people, and I go, so imagine all 400 of those people are also lighting a candle. That is horrifying. And then they're like, oh yeah. And then with their hair, it's like that moment of connecting, because my hair is naturally curly, nowhere near like natural texture of a beautiful, like black woman on campus. But I'm like, okay, get it. I have curly hair, I have to put all kinds of stuff in my hair with steaming in the bathroom, and you're like, mmm, because you're gonna do your hair. And I was like, I get it, but we don't want to cover our smoke detector because then we think about okay, then we're like getting into the music, we're listening, we're having a good time, we're getting ready with our friends. You put the curling iron down, curling iron catches on something, smoke detectors covered. Now there's a big safety risk for everyone in the hallway. And I'm like, it wouldn't it be really silly? Wouldn't you feel really silly if you endangered the lives of other people because you were curling your hair? And then they're like, Yeah. So it it's really about the zooming out, because I get it. You're like, I'm just doing my hair. What's wrong with that? Um, but tapering with fire safety equipment is a big, big risk.

SPEAKER_01 30:37

Mortification of being the the reason everybody had to leave the building would do me in. I would have to go home, I think.

SPEAKER_00 30:45

You're like, not me, not me.

SPEAKER_02 30:48

I don't know if this works or not. Sometimes it's in my script to talk to them about desensitizing people to the alarms. Um, the more false alarms that go off, people can start to sleep through them, no matter how blaring and awful. It feels victimless, but I I'm always trying to find the way to say it without inflicting any shame or you're gonna kill somebody. That doesn't really work.

SPEAKER_00 31:16

Yeah, no, that's why I always use the language of like, wouldn't you feel really silly if you did that? Because it's like you'd obviously feel more than silly, but I don't ever want to be like, wouldn't you feel like the worst person ever if you did this? That's not helpful.

SPEAKER_01 31:30

I had a conference-related question. I was surprised by the level of fashion that people were serving at the ASCA conference, and I didn't know what you thought of it or if you've been to other conferences. Is this sort of a ubiquitous thing or is it a new thing? What's going on?

SPEAKER_00 31:51

This was my first professional conference, which was so exciting. But I was impressed. Like, there were some really good outfits that I was like, okay, like we're getting into it right now. Like we are. Like, I was so happy to be there for Valentine's Day because I saw like a lot of women in their like all red or like stuff with hearts, and I was like, yes, like you're adding whimsy to the workplace. It's amazing. Um, so it was great. Or even um, oh my goodness, the the woman who had interviewed Disha Dyer, she wore a bubble skirt onto the stage when she was interviewing Disha Dyer, and I was like, that is so cool, and I loved it. And she had like a little leg out moment, and she looked really professional and she looked really beautiful, but I was like, Yeah, like you're doing something a little different. Like you have some leg out, you're wearing a bubble skirt, like that's interesting, and it was just so it was so cool.

SPEAKER_01 32:38

I think you used a phrase that I was not familiar with when I asked what you were wearing. You said you made reference to something that was Y2K. And I was like, Oh, what is the and I was in a thrift shop in Portland, they had a whole Y2K section. I'm like, that was just last year, and it was not just last year, it was 20 years ago. So uh yeah, I didn't realize that stuff that I still have in my closet is now considered vintage.

SPEAKER_02 33:09

Can you uh demystify that? I I told Kurt before we came on, my beloved college orchestra conductor is retiring this year, and he's inviting all alumni who ever played for him to come back. And for me, like it's half about the music and half about the outfit that I get to pick. And I buy almost all my clothes on eBay. What does Y2K mean? Because at first I thought it was a label, and now I'm like, is this does this mean it's vintage from the 2000s?

SPEAKER_01 33:42

That's what I that's what I thought it was.

SPEAKER_00 33:44

Yeah, essentially. It's Y2K, I feel like, is anything from like 1998 to like 2008, basically. I feel like it's like those 10 years. I always think of like Britney Spears when I think of like Y2K. Um yeah, I love it though. I think it's so fun. One of my friends had a Y2K themed birthday party last year, and so like everyone just looked like like rat stalls. It was amazing.

SPEAKER_01 34:15

So I feel like that would be like for Collette and I the equivalent of somebody having a disco-themed party.

SPEAKER_02 34:24

Sure, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:26

Or 80s. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 34:28

So in the real Y2K, I do recall, Kurt, that you had a a pair of leather pants.

SPEAKER_01 34:34

I did.

SPEAKER_02 34:35

And I had some snakeskin pants.

SPEAKER_01 34:39

I you know, I think you were always very fashion forward. Colette and I had offices next to each other at one point in our career, and for me, uh, I felt like this is somebody who is very fashion forward, and then I got a part-time job at the gap and spent every paycheck I got at that job purchasing clothing. And I I don't know how that sounds now, but at the time the gap was still like very trendy, and they had a lot of good staple fashion pieces, so I felt like that particular cluster of years, that floor of student life was really bringing in.

SPEAKER_02 35:18

I had a I remember I showed up the first day of RA training with this dress with a diagonal, like it was on one shoulder, and it was zebra striped, and anytime I wore that to work and walked home, I would get cat called. And the day I didn't was like such a mortifying day. Like, what does that say about me as a feminist or like fashionista?

SPEAKER_01 35:44

Oh lord.

SPEAKER_00 35:45

I have cowgirl boots that are like that. I have bright red cowgirl boots and I love wearing them. I think they're like so true to who I am. But if I wear them out in Boston, I always get catcalled and I'm like, I'm gonna kick someone. Like, leave me alone. I know I look cool, but you don't have to say anything.

SPEAKER_01 36:01

Do you remember in the movie Clueless where she had that? Did she have like some computer that had all of her outfits in it and it would help her pick outfits? I'm just picking picturing Sam is going through. She has like an entire photo album of her outfits and she can just send it to you.

SPEAKER_00 36:18

Oh gosh, I wish, I wish. If I could like, if I was rich and I had like a cool intern that could just like help me with stuff, I'd be like photograph all of my clothes and then we're gonna like slide through them. You know what my dream really is? The Hannah Montana closet. That's a dream to me.

SPEAKER_02 36:35

Do you use AI or like chat GPT to do any of your fits?

SPEAKER_00 36:40

I don't do no. I have never even began typing chat GPT into a computer. I've never used AI for anything. It scares me. I I don't know. Me and my friends were an anti-AI household, so I have not used it for anything fashion related.

SPEAKER_02 36:59

One of my mentors, Sarita, she travels, she went from higher ed to become a full-time public speaker. So she's been all over the world, and now she gets on Chat GPT, and uh she refuses to check luggage. So whatever she travels with, no matter how long the trip is, it has to fit into her little carry-on bag. But she'll have Chat GPT do her like, well, Sarita, um, those black pants you can wear evening or morning, and you're gonna want to pair it with the red blazer, but then take a para flats, and it will all fit in the suitcase for her.

SPEAKER_01 37:37

This is the best use of AI I've heard so far.

SPEAKER_02 37:40

Yeah. What's the reason chat GPT exists?

SPEAKER_01 37:45

Medical breakthroughs, no fashion. That's good.

SPEAKER_02 37:50

Oh, this time went very fast. Sam, was there stuff you wanted to talk about?

SPEAKER_00 37:56

I don't even think so. I don't even think so. I think we've talked about all the good things. If we wanna, in the editing, pause this so we don't see my pants. I'll grab my cat so that the cat can look at it. Okay, her name is Peaches. And she's sleeping right now, and she's gonna be like, Mom, why are you picking up?

SPEAKER_02 38:15

There's a peach theme in your life. I like this.

SPEAKER_00 38:17

Yes, and I have her as a tattoo on my leg in a peach, which is the best.

SPEAKER_02 38:28

We need to have like a Sam segment every three months or so. Okay. Well, hello, Peaches. She says, Mommy, you woke me up. Yeah. Have you seen the woman Peaches that does an Instagram a fashion Instagram where she takes runway looks from Milan and she'll sew them herself, but she's like my age, and so all her cellulite and belly fat, and like she just puts herself out there, but her name is Peaches, and I love her fashion humor.

SPEAKER_00 39:14

Yeah. Oh, that's so cool.

SPEAKER_02 39:16

Yep. Sam, we gotta create like a segment for you or something where you I don't know if you can do like higher education fashion trends or how to bring whimsy. Oh, I wish we had talked more about whimsy in the workplace.

SPEAKER_00 39:34

Yeah, no, I'm happy to come back whenever. We can bring the whimsy anytime. Whimsy is good. Students appreciate the whimsy.

SPEAKER_02 39:41

Oh, how do we ramp this up?

SPEAKER_01 39:43

Kurt, do you have a good I mean the cat did wave goodbye.

SPEAKER_02 39:46

That was pretty good. Yeah. Sam, opinions on animal prints, yes or no?

SPEAKER_00 39:59

Yes. I think that leopard print is a neutral and it looks so good with red. And I am urging people actually, I'm glad that you brought up zebra. I think that's the new one because leopard print is such a neutral. I think if you want to go crazy wild, zebra. So fun. Love her.

SPEAKER_01 40:15

I am envious because I feel like there is no fashion bridge for men to wear animal prints. Uh I haven't seen an animal print that I felt as a man comfortable wearing yet. So I'm gonna be on the lookout.

SPEAKER_02 40:27

Pocket square?

SPEAKER_03 40:28

Pocket square.

SPEAKER_01 40:30

I don't think I have a pocket, I guess. I don't really use pocket squares, though. I'll think about it. I am considering a men's tote, which is a bridge beyond my comfort because it does feel a little bit like I'm carrying a purse. So I have to find one that's large enough that you know, to justify.

SPEAKER_02 40:48

My husband has a nice man purse. It's okay. It's good. Sam, for my orchestra concert, I'm thinking tuxedo pants with some platform Mary Jane's and maybe fishnet socks.

SPEAKER_00 41:02

Just hanging out. Cute, I like that.

SPEAKER_02 41:05

A halter top with a um black sequin biker jacket. Not unlike your jacket.

SPEAKER_00 41:13

Fabulous. Very fabulous.

SPEAKER_01 41:16

I was pushing for all of the above. However, sheer top and a leather like cami kind of situation.

SPEAKER_02 41:25

Cammy has been one of my query terms. Okay. Sequin cammy, satin cami.

SPEAKER_01 41:31

A shear would be I mean.

SPEAKER_02 41:34

The sheer though, I was telling Kurt, I'm so flat-chested if I wear a strapless bra, if I crash symbols, there's a chance the bra would fall down.

SPEAKER_01 41:46

I mean, if you're trying to be the center of attention, case closed, right there.

SPEAKER_02 41:50

No, it's it's his it's his retirement. Like, I want to sparkle, like literally sparkle, but I can't it's his show.

SPEAKER_01 41:59

I mean, we would never he would never stop talking about it, I assume.

SPEAKER_02 42:03

No one would no one would forget the Brian Dorkress retirement open. I almost think you have to do it. All right, we all have homework to do. We will meet here again and keep this going. Sam, thanks a million. This was a blast, and we will definitely have you back.

SPEAKER_00 42:24

Awesome. Thanks for having me.

unknown 42:30

Ms.

SPEAKER_02 42:31

Behavior is written and produced by Colette Shaw and Kurt Doan. Theme music was written and performed by Kevin McLeod from Incompotech.com. You can contact Ms. Behavior at Ms. BehaviorCollege at gmail.com. That's msbehaviorcollege at gmail.com.