Closure is a Lie: You Don't Need It To Heal | Ep. 17

For a long time, I thought I needed closure to move on. I thought I needed that one final conversation, the apology, the explanation, the moment that would tie it all together and make it make sense.

But what I’ve learned is that closure doesn’t always come. And even when it does… it doesn’t always heal.

In this episode, I’m sharing the hard truths about closure—the ways we chase it, the reasons we cling to it, and the power we give away while waiting for it. Whether it’s a relationship, a friendship, or something you’ve been holding onto for years, I want to help you see that healing is still possible… even without a final word.

We’ll talk about:

• Why closure is more about us than the other person
• The difference between closure and clarity
• And why your healing doesn’t have to wait for someone else’s words and/or actions

If you’ve ever felt stuck in the in-between—hoping for something that may never come—this episode is for you.

What if you’re not stuck because of what they didn’t say…but because you haven’t stopped hoping they will?

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I used to think I needed closure. Like truly believed that if I had just one more conversation, one more explanation, one more moment to say my peace, then I'd finally be able to move on. But let me tell you what really happened. I chased closure like it was the missing key to my peace. I sat through conversations that drained me, hoping for an answer that would make it all make sense. I got apologies that didn't heal me. Explanations that only gave me more questions, and silence that left me spinning. And after all that, I still felt stuck. I still replayed the moments. I still wondered what I could have said or what I should have said. And that's when it hit me. Closure isn't something someone else gives you, it's something you decide for yourself. And if you're waiting for someone else to give you peace, you'll be waiting forever. Welcome to Renovating the Soul, where we turn the mess into something meaningful. Welcome back, y'all, to another episode. I am your host, Alexandria Robinson, and I am really happy that you have joined me for another episode. If this is your first time here, welcome. Thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule and your busy life to join me. And if you are returning, thank you for coming back. Thank you for listening to another episode. We've had a really good season or you know, continuation of episodes so far. And I cannot be more happy about just the hours of work and content that I put out there so far. And I really hope and pray that you guys are enjoying it as much as I have and did, you know, recording and researching and being able to package everything for you guys. One of the things that I don't do enough that I see from other podcasts is I don't feel like I incorporate myself enough. And I know it's important for you all to know me as the what am I called? A podcasteer, the host. Okay, the host. There we go. Um, for you all to know me as a host, to like know that I'm human, know that I'm, you know, what's going on and what's not. And I I just don't do well with like life updates because in my mind, I'm like, who cares? Like they don't want to hear about me. Um, but but I I notice when I watch other people's podcasts and I hear like what they're doing, what they're working on, and you know, podcasts that I listen to often, it doesn't bother me to hear about them, right? It's different if somebody's like, you know, humble bragging or doing, you know, you you know what I mean, like doing something else. But um, I I love to hear what people are working on and doing. So I was like, you know, I need to incorporate some more life updates, especially, you know, coming with all this, you know, heavier content and stuff. I'm like, let me break it up with some of what's just happening, right? Um, lots are happening over here in the Robinson household. And right now we're really navigating, trying to figure out the direction that we go in as individuals when it comes to my husband and myself and our careers and opportunities that we have. We're trying to navigate, you know, the options that we have, and then we're trying to look at us as a family unit and figure out where do we move our family, what direction is our family going in. And so it's not about like it's not questioning in a way of we we're lost that we don't know. It's questioning in the way of there's like multiple paths that we can take. You know, you're standing at that road with four different roads, and you're like, okay, I don't know which one do we go? This one, do we go that one? Do we go this one? Do we go that one? And that's where we're at, right? And so, um, yeah, we're we're trying to figure it out. We are young in the grand scheme of things. I know they were trying to say 30 is old, but like we're 33, trying to seemingly create a life that we've not personally experienced firsthand, and that can be very difficult. That's everything from our our marriage being you know healthy to our children being raised right to our household to to our eating. So we are on this elimination diet, and we are learning to we're learning what we need to eliminate and take out of our diet. We we're doing that because we and I should say my husband found out some information about just how much the food we're eating is causing the inflammation in our body and our sickness, and actually it kind of it goes back into um what's the episode child? Um it goes back into the episode broken souls, broken bodies, right? And how I was talking about, you know, oftentimes what's happening in your soul is what is affecting your body. But there is a very real thing that we have to acknowledge is that our our our health is really important. Our health is essential, right? Walking, what we're eating, what we're what we're putting in our body, right? Um, which is the same thing as what we're eating, but I'm I kind of meant like consuming too medications, vitamins, things like that. And so we're now on this journey, even though we're young and we don't have any, you know, major health issues. We really wanted to start our family early on, eliminating added sugars, eliminating certain oils, vegetable oils, palm oils, and and and hearing how these industries are huge moneymakers, and hearing how people are going in for real things, but only getting prescribed medicine when it's just their eating habits. And and I'm gonna be honest with y'all, it's not easy, like having to take out the things that you've been eating for 30 years. Oh, yeah, like y'all, I promise you sometimes I feel like a twitch is coming, but I'm also a little dramatic, so but yeah, so we've been on that, we've been on our health journey, we've been trying to figure out, like I said, our paths, our careers. Um, we homeschool our children, so my oldest is in first grade, and he's doing really well with homeschool. And then my second, he'll be starting kindergarten um towards the you know, new in the new school year, so August, September. And we're we're a young family really trying to just navigate the world, trying to figure out what our next steps are, where we go, how we give our children what we didn't have, but also keep them humble and respectful and hardworking. You know, we don't want kids that always got their hand out, right? We want kids that know they gotta work for what they get. So, yeah, that's just like a few life updates. Also, I didn't I didn't know that I was gonna put this in here, but you know, I might as well might as well tell y'all. Like, I so I've shared before that I work for the federal government and I was actually a part of the mass, you know, deep downsizing of the government, and so I was able to take their little offer instead of them like pushing me out, which I'm I'm grateful that I did that option, but that was really hard. And it was it was so hard to in the beginning having to make such a quick decision, finally finding a place that I saw myself out for 10 years or or more, finally finding like a career where in a place where I could go in many directions, it was very comfortable, it provided so much stability for my family, and to have it just kind of like taken away um was heartbreaking. And while I don't be honest, I don't disagree with the things that they were saying, and that's something that I've been transparent about with anybody that I've talked to about this. I don't disagree with the things that they were saying. I've was I've worked for both private sector and I've worked for the public sector, and there are strong differences, and there are a lot of things in the public sector that people get away with that they couldn't get away with in the private sector, right? Pros and cons for sure. But it still didn't feel good, it still was very hard to wrap my mind around that my career was over, um, and probably won't have much to go back to if that was an option. But let me tell you guys, like that was probably one of the biggest blessings in disguise. I did not want to see it that way, but it has opened up so many doors and opportunities for me personally that I think are gonna pay off in the long run. And because they let me go, I was like, I'm not going back to another job where I gotta work my way from the bottom to the top, where I gotta deal with all these personalities. Like, I cannot wrap my mind around having to crawl up that ladder again. And so I made a different decision when I'm not quite ready to share yet, but I promise when the time is right, I will share. Um, but I I made a different decision and I talked to my husband about it, and I was super scared, but I feel more sure about the direction that I'm going in and um thankful, honestly, like overwhelmingly grateful because I am that person that gets what that gets comfortable. I would have stayed there, I would have not gone anywhere and just been chilling. I would have just I would have been chilling for the next 10 years doing my stuff still on the side. But God was like, nope, nope. Looking at it, I'm like, oh, you really gotta push us. You will he he knew it wasn't no leaving my job if I didn't get pushed because I was comfortable, it was stable, it was great for my children. I'll put up with it, you know. Um, after but I was so mad, y'all, because after all them years of going through manager after manager, and then I finally got a manager that I got along with well that I really enjoy working with. And I'm like, are you serious? I had to spend all that time under them other folks. But anyways, so I digress. I just wanted to give a couple of life updates, just have like a really casual conversation, break up some of this, you know, heavier content, like I said. But, you know, that's enough, I think. I think you guys got enough. Always feel free to follow me on social media. Um, I'll probably I'll talk about that at some point, but I haven't been as active just because social media has just become so toxic. Um, but sign up for the email list, that's a good way to connect with me. Send me emails, you know, like feel free to contact me off of this if you ever want to know. But I'll keep sharing, you know, some life updates just so you all know, like, I'm a very real person. I'm not just spewing out content that I'm not trying to live through or haven't lived through, or I'm not just sitting up here like in a in a glass house as if everything's so perfect. I don't know. Does the glass house perfect? That's a good question.

unknown 10:59

Hmm.

SPEAKER_00 11:00

Anyways, I'm I'm just not, you know, I just want you all to know, like, I'm human. I'm working through things. We have so many things going on in our family and in our household as I am recording this podcast. When I'm not doing this podcast, I'm doing something, you know, especially on this diet. I gotta cook all the time now because when you start reading labels in the store, you realize you can't have Jack Diddly Squat. So, anyways, lots of life things. I'm I'm really happy that I'm able to give you guys this update and that it was um you know on my heart to do that. So let's jump into today's episode. I think it's gonna be a really good one. As you all heard in the intro, we're gonna be talking about closure. And as you also heard, I am that girl who chased closure. And so in this episode, we're gonna be talking about why we chase closure. Um, we're gonna talk about how closure doesn't equal relief. I want to share more about my struggle and my experience with closure, and then I want to talk about what happens when we never get those answers that we want. So let's go ahead and dive right in. Why we chase closure. In order to really unpack that question and understand, we gotta we gotta nerd out a little bit, okay? Um, our the brain, it craves certainty. We want answers to make sense of why something ended. We want validation to confirm that our pain was real, we want resolution to tie up loose ends and move forward. We crave certainty. And there was um a study done called the caught and from that study produced the cognitive closure theory. And this study found that humans have a strong psychological need to avoid ambiguity. And when they have experiences that feel unresolved, our brains perceive uncertainty as a threat. And so it causes us to become anxious and distressed. And so this need is so strong that we often prioritize any explanation over the right explanation. Research shows that people would rather have an incomplete or incorrect answer than remain uncertain. And that's me. That's your girl. I've done that to myself plenty of times. But I want to take us because when I was doing this, I knew I wanted to do this episode, and I'm gonna tell more about my struggle with this episode in just a few moments. But I knew I was coming under this episode, but I got so curious about okay, where did this idea of closure come from? And so that's what I want to talk about y'all, like the origins of closure. So in the early 20th century, um, there were different theories that were introduced, and one of them was the gestalt psychology. Hopefully, I'm saying that correctly. Um, but it focused on how the brain seeks patterns and completion. And then from that, there was this principle that came, and from that principle, it suggested that our brains hold on to unfinished tasks or unresolved situations more intensely than completed ones. So that's the early 20th century, right? They have these studies, it's starting to, they're starting to understand how our brains function. We don't like uncertainty. As I've already said, we were looking for patterns, we're looking for completion. So then later in the 1950s and in the 1960s, psychologists who started studying grief and trauma started using the word closure. So we have to pause for a minute and acknowledge that the 1950s and 1960s coming up with a new word and a new idea is kind of crazy. It's kind of crazy because we have been existing for so long. And when you look at the ancient philosophers and when you look at ancient wisdom from, I mean, all over, right? From from Asia, from the Americas, from Mexico, like wherever you're looking at these are South America, like where like wherever you're finding these ideas from from people that have been here since the early days, beginning days, and we see those patterns continue on, it makes more sense to let me how can I say this? Like, it helps us to connect the dots better because we can see that when we're establishing something about humans, it's something that has existed since the beginning of time or since our early days. And I hope that's making sense. When you have something introduced to you as late as the 1950s and the 1960s, you might suggest that there's a flaw. It honestly might suggest that, especially because we know now that in that time and even now, child, the the studies that have come out from a lot of psychologists are being forged, they're being forced upon us, their data is heavily skewed and not accurate, not interpreted correctly. Um, and so when I when I read that, that the word closure didn't come until the 1950s and 60s, I was like, okay, starting to make sense now. Um, and then in that time, that's when they started to see and say that closure was the final step of the grieving process. Their intention was to help people move forward after loss, betrayal, or heartbreak. And I'm not mad at them for that. I get why a therapist or somebody trying to help people through um certain situations, they're also craving an answer for people who seem hurt and lost and broken and confused. And so their answer to that was oh, you gotta close the loop. You have to establish what is what has happened. You have to give your brain the certainty, the completion, the ending of that circle. You have to give it that in order for you to move on. And so they took the studies and the theories and what we knew and they added something that made sense. Oh, we clearly have to close the door, close your like we had now. I'm not saying that that's why they came up with it. That was that was your girl. But um, no, we but we have to uh we have to we have to close this chapter, we have to close this door. I mean, we've all heard those things, so it makes sense. I'm not mad at them, right? But from that, right, as we move on, from that 1950s, 1960s, they start using that word, they introduce that word closure, starts going around, then there becomes the the cultural obsession. And in our modern times, the concept of closure exploded. Movies and TV, they're constantly indoctrinating us with this idea of getting closure or needing closure, especially when it comes to relationships. But we've seen the turn become with friendships, and and when I say relationships, I mean romantic relationships, and now we've seen the turn to be friendships and in parent relationships and you know, teach whatever it is, right? Like, but how many movies or or shows have you seen? And I would say maybe particularly movies, but we see it in all in all music too, okay? Music too, poetry, whatever it is. We're we were indoctrinated with this need and this idea of getting closure. And what I was saying was, how many movies have you seen where the whole movie they're trying to get closure? And the whole movie is about the idea that this person is not going to be able to move on until they get the closure. And then therapy and pop psychology, um, through those means, self-help content push the idea that healing wasn't possible until closure was achieved. That industry of therapy and all the self-help books and all the, I mean, they're like, No, you can't heal until you get that closure, until you get that conversation, until you get those answers. So we have the true crime and the justice systems. Families of victims, they're often told that they need closure through a conviction or confession, even though that doesn't undo the pain. And so from the introduction of closure, then we we've seen that, you know, become more popular and just explode through again our cultural obsession. I think it probably felt to many like, yes, that's what I've been missing, that's what I need. And in this past like 15 to 20 years, we've started to see this shift away from this idea. We we have started to see that people are changing how we talk about healing, how we talk about trauma, even the conversations that we have in therapy, because people started realizing that healing is internal, not external. That closure became an excuse for avoidance. People would delay, as I've as I've admitted to, delay their healing, waiting for an ex to explain why they left or a former friend to admit what they did. Closure became a way for people to hold on and not let go. And the irony is when we're seeking closure, it often keeps us tied to what hurt us. It's just another conversation, another reason to reach out, another way to stay attached instead of truly moving on. I don't know if you said this, I know I have. I can't move on until I can't let go until I need answers. And as much as I believe and am off social media because, or not off, but you know, like I said, not participating in social media as much because it's just so toxic. Um, social media did help in this shift that more people started sharing their real life stories of getting closure, going after closure, and realizing that it changed nothing. And that caused people to watch these videos and reels and TikToks and whatever and connect with that YouTube videos, writing stories and hear their stories and connect and say, Yeah, same thing happened to me and same thing here. And um, in the first season, in the episode on grieving relationships, I believe, I shared an article about the therapist who told her patient that he was still waiting for an apology from his dad, something that he was never gonna get, and that in order to heal, he had to learn how to heal and move on without it. So we have definitely seen this shift, shifting away from closure. And I and I love that. But we can't act as if closure is still not being pushed because it is. It's an easy storyline, okay? It's really good for entertainment, it's like, you know, giving us this alternative reality. Because we don't always want to watch a show or a TV that reflects real life. We want people to get their moment, to get their last word, to get their, you know, whatever it is. You know, we talked about that in the revenge episode in season one, right? You got to get your link back. Like we we we want to see that happen. And so closure is still being pushed. It's still giving people false hope, you know, you know, again. And it keeps people consuming, honestly. It keeps people consuming the books, the therapy, the self-help content, that promise of closure, it keeps people hooked on seeking answers instead of deciding to heal. So even though it's getting better, it's not all gone. Our entire mindset and language has not shifted. And people, they pursue closure because they believe it will provide relief from emotional pain or confusion or grief. And studies on relationship endings and grief, they show that receiving answers often doesn't significantly reduce emotional distress. In fact, it can trigger more questions and dissatisfaction. Because the reality that we are trying to face here is that closure doesn't equal relief and that closure is a lie. You don't need it to get answers, and you don't need it for your healing. And according to psychologist Nancy Burns, she has a book called Closure: The Rush to End Grief and What It Cost Us. And in full transparency, I have not read this book in its entirety. I'm trying to get my hands on it. But in the book, what she talks about is how closure is a myth that society created. And how often seeking closure only prolongs pain and prevents genuine healing. As I I seemingly just mentioned, that when you're trying to go and get the answers, it doesn't reduce your emotional distress. It triggers even more within you because you hear them say something, and then you're wondering, well, how the heck did you get to there? Now you just spoon feeding me some BS and we need to sift through this. And yeah, I struggled with doing this episode. And I was really surprised about that. I it was harder than I thought it was gonna be. Because I I I knew this. Like I I felt comfortable talking about this because I'm like, yeah, I realize closure is a myth, closure is a lie. Like, yeah, I know, you know, I can't be clo um chasing after closure. But when I was trying to finish this episode, I had so much apprehension, so much um I started procrastinating, and I just couldn't figure out like why am I struggling so bad with approaching this conversation? And then that's when I had to admit out loud. I said that the reason that I'm struggling with this episode is because I am that girl who believed and said out loud that I needed closure. And I wish I could let y'all into my brain just so y'all can see. There was no tug of war in my mind growing up and all the way into young adulthood, you know, mid-20s, late 20s. There was no tug of war where I was like, maybe closure is bad, maybe closure is not. No, I lived my life thinking I have to get closure every chance I can get. I have to have that conversation, I have to say what I need to say, I have to do what I need to do. Um, it just wasn't something that I wavered in between. I thought that I had to get closure no matter what. And when I didn't get it, it kept me in a loop, in a cycle where I was constantly thinking about the situation or the person, and then thinking, okay, maybe one day they'll come back around and I'll get my closure. Someone just pushed that off to the side. I'm not really gonna deal with it. And so I live my life thinking that or yeah, believing or thinking that the reason why I was struggling with, you know, like I said, the cycle of thoughts or thinking about that person, that situation, why I couldn't let it go, why I was having dreams, why it's constantly on my mind, why I go to sleep thinking about it, wake up, wake up thinking about it. I conditioned myself to believe that it was because I didn't get the closure. Not because I wasn't healing, or not because I needed to really talk about what was really happening to me. It was like, yeah, I could do that part, but I still need the closure, I still need the conversation. But then, y'all, let me tell you what happened. I got closure. I went after closure intentionally in my young adult, so maybe like 28, 29, when I say young adult, um, 28, yeah, probably like 28, 29, yeah. Um, I went after this closure so intentionally, and I really paid attention to that moment because right before going into that conversation, this was the first time that someone told me that I didn't need closure. And that sounded so crazy to me. And I'm like, what you mean I don't need closure, I need to just move on. That that's no, I I no, and but okay, funny enough though, when he said it to me, I did not say you're wrong. I was like, Yeah, you're right, but I still need to just do this for myself, and I need to just have this conversation, and you know, I I'm not going in expecting anything and wanting anything. I you know, I just need to do this for me. I was just lying, lying through lying through my teeth, talking about I know it's not no, I didn't. I thought that I needed closure, I thought that I needed the conversation, I wanted to have the conversation and yeah, I wanted to walk in there and get the answers that I was desiring. I was not at the time trying to be no better, bigger person. I wanted the answers that I wanted. And before I'm gonna talk about that situation, but before I get into that, I want to go back to when I was younger, when I was really in that idea that I needed closure and to show y'all how I really chased it. And so my papa passed away, and well, let me go back. My my papa passed away, right? But before he passed away, he was in the hospital for a fall. He had failed. And I'm gonna try to get through this without crying because it still makes me emotional, which is kind of my point about this whole thing. Um, but yeah, he was in the hospital for a fall. We were expecting him, you know, not to be there long to come out. We had just seen him, my mom had just seen him, and we were on our way home, we were stuck in traffic, and we get a phone call that he fell into a coma, and we were so confused because we were like, we just seen him. And I just will not forget that moment. And we uh went back to the hospital, and sure enough, he was like all plugged up on the on the machines, and they kept him on those machines. I don't remember exactly how long, I don't know if it was a week, but I know it was you know, some some days trying to see if he was gonna come out of it. And then I believe they were given the word that you know he wasn't gonna get better. Um, and so they decided that they were going to pull the plug. And so when I got the phone call that that was gonna happen, I was like, I have to be there. I have to be at his bedside because again, in my mind, I'm like, I need this closure. I can't go the rest of my life wondering what happened, what his last breath was like, and I had to be there. And like my brother didn't want to go because he didn't want to see him like that. My cousins, my older cousins didn't want to go because they didn't want to see him like that. But for me, I was like, no, I have I cannot live the rest of my life not being able to say goodbye, not being able to do this the way that I want to do it. And if you hear that, you also hear the controlling part of getting closure, you know, that it was about that closure that I needed. Um, that I I mean sorry, about the control that I needed to be able to control the narrative and not let it control me. I don't want grief to sneak up on me. I don't want the anxiety to come, although at this time I don't have that language. But you guys understand what I'm saying. Like I knew that I didn't want to go grieving for the rest of my life, always wondering what if, because I knew I was gonna have to grieve, but I don't want to have to add on the what ifs and the pain of not knowing what happened on top of that. So um I I go to the hospital, and oh, I just remember that day of standing next to a side, and so it was my my papa is on my mom's side, so it's my mom's dad, and but my grandma on my dad's side was there because we all live in Seattle, you know, all the church families kind of get along, and my grandma's really good. My grandma, which is my mom's dad, is really good at like grief counseling and just being there when people pass away. That is a gift she has. I do not have that gift, I'm horrible with grief, horrible with comforting people when they're crying and sad. It's not my strong area at all. Um, but she was the one standing next to me, and I do appreciate her being there for me, you know, being the youngest in that in there at that time. And I remember her saying, you know, he can hear you, say what you want to say to him. And I, you know, told him I loved him. I, you know, obviously said goodbye, and we waited, and then they finally decided to take him off the machine. And, you know, again, we we waited and then he finally passed away. I did not leave his side until that body was completely out of sight. Like we got to sit with him for a little while and then they covered him up and they walked him out. That whole that's what I mean by stay by his side is that when they were wheeling him out, when he goes around the corner, I was there, I did not want any surprises. I did I wanted to see it all so that I didn't have to wonder what it was like down the road to not have again, not have been there. I already said that, but like to not have been there, I was just so dead set on that um because I thought that I needed it, but I was saying for years that I got closure, but the pain never changed. My heart never healed. I became very bitter towards people who were still here. I know that's bad to say, but I became so bitter thinking like, okay, God, why you didn't take them? Why'd you have to take him? So upset and frustrated at why he had to leave early um and so unexpectedly, and at different stages of my life, that has come back to me. When I graduated from high school, I was so sad because my papa was the most excited for me graduating from high school, and we would talk about it when I would come in, and it was my senior year, so it was he was always talking about you know when I was gonna graduate, what was I gonna do, and all these things. And so we that was our little conversation that we would have. And when he passed away before he got to see me graduate, I mean, heartbroken, like devastated. And another reason why I'm gonna go back to when I was at the hospital, another reason why I wanted to be there, I just remember this. Another reason why I wanted to be there was because my papa was a pastor, and I knew that when we got to the funeral, like I knew everything after that, I wasn't gonna have the same con access to him. When it was at the hospital, it was only a few of us there, just the immediate family and a few extra people. I really don't remember everybody that was there, but it's not, it wasn't a lot of us. It's um, it was just a few of us there. And so you I had my intimate time with him versus when we got to the funeral, it was so packed, and you know, um other family flew in from out of town and other grandchildren came in, and and you're you're you know, I don't have the same access to him anymore. And so I wanted that, right? Um, but like I was saying, those different stages of my life, it just hit me differently. So when I graduated from high school, when I got married and he couldn't be there, a whole new set of emotions. And like it's not even a new set of emotions, emotions, it's the fact that I didn't heal from the hurt in the first place. I thought that getting the closure, being there in the room with him was gonna be enough to satisfy that healing, to satisfy my my grief, to not obviously get rid of it, but to temper it so that it won't hurt as bad. It won't be as bad. But that, y'all, it didn't, it didn't, it didn't take it away because I never really dealt with it. I just let the emotions run me. And when I got married, it came back up when I had kids and I would go back home and I couldn't take my kids to see him, knowing how much he would have thought my kids were funny. I really can't let myself go too far down that rabbit hole because I just cry every time. When I oh sorry, I missed college. When I went to college, when I graduated from college, I just skipped over whole life events. When I was when I went to college, when I graduated college, when I got married, when I had kids, there we go. And even now, now that I'm kind of at a coasting time in life, all of that stuff bundles together. If I sit and I think about it too long, I look at the trajectory and I'm like, dang, he missed it all. One of the things that broke my heart the most too was that I was so young when he passed away, and I wasn't mature enough to like have mature conversations, ask him questions, get to know him. And so one of the areas, honestly, I think the biggest area that has broken my heart and been my biggest struggle is not getting to appreciate him as an adult, not getting to actually sit down, ask the questions, get to know him for him, get to know him not just as Papa, you know, but to get to know him as, you know, Kelly. Like that's that was his name, Kelly Easter. It's like I didn't get that chance. And so again, I'm thinking I was gonna be a little better because I got the closure. So that's where I was at when I was younger. Now, when I was just telling y'all that second situation where I went into closure intentionally, knowing that I wanted to get this closure conversation, I wanted to have this last conversation. Sorry, but I was saying I was told closure's not bad. I mean, sorry, let me get my stuff all mixed up. Let me start that over for y'all. The the first situation that I had talked about when I was saying that, I was going into getting closure intentionally, but I paid more attention to this time because it was the first time that someone had told me that I didn't need closure. And so that time I was older again, I was late 20s, and it was an old friend. We'd had this situation happen, a little falling out, whatever. And some some time had gone by, maybe like a year or so. And while we were cordial, I just I could not stop obsessing over the situation. I couldn't stop thinking about it, I couldn't stop feeling some type of way. I was really heartbroken because I'm like, I really opened up to you. I thought we were really friends, like this is crazy. And a part of me still wanted to be her friend, even though, like I said, I lied and was like, nah, I'm not going in it to get the closure. I'm just going in for me. And no, I don't want to be your friend again. But deep down, I definitely think I wanted to be her friend, but I knew that was unlikely to happen. Um, I was like, oh, I know she's not gonna give me the answers that I want to get, but I still want to have the conversation. No, I wanted the answers. I, you know, again, I'm just like, I'm struggling in between those two worlds because I've obviously by that time seen that in certain situations, closure doesn't matter. I didn't necessarily go back to X's and try to get closure. Certain people, when you're done, you're done. But in other instances, when I could get closure, I'm thinking I still need this. I need this to close that loop, I need this to complete the story to get the answers that I need. So when I arranged for this whole sit-down, or whatever, I reached out, you know, thinking I'm being the bigger person because she ain't never gonna do it. So let's sit down, whatever, whatever. You know, she agreed. I was kind of surprised by that. But it was like, okay, you're trying to say phase two. We sit down. And then as we're having this conversation and I'm starting it off and I'm saying what I need to say, and she starts responding. I start realizing she's not even, she's not gonna be for coming. She's not gonna say what she really says, what she really thinks. We're not gonna get to the bottom of this. In fact, we would need like three more conversations and maybe a mediator. Not that it wasn't, it wasn't tension, it wasn't like an argument or anything like that. It's just that she was not ready to be open and honest about the things that was happening because she hadn't really dealt with them within herself. And and much, and same for me. Same for me. I didn't deal with everything either. So I that's why I also kind of let her get away with a lot of stuff because I didn't even come to the table with the right posture either. And so when I realized that, right, and I got up from that table and I walked away, that conversation didn't change anything. I that's when I seen that I was like, oh my gosh, girl, this don't work because I was still thinking about the situation, I still kept looping everything that was happening. In fact, now I'm looping the situation and I'm looping the closure conversation because I'm like, now what she said in this closure conversation, don't add up to what happened. She's saying she, you know, I'm kind of making this up because I don't remember it all, but it's like she's saying, you know, she didn't XYZ, but I'm like, I remember ABC. Like, this ain't really so now I'm just in a I'm in an even bigger cycle than I was in before I walked in those doors. Now I'm really trying to figure out what the heck is going on and why can I get over this? And then I was like over time, you know, as I just kept um dealing with that, right? And those feelings. This isn't all like one day, night and day, one week, one month. I don't want to make it seem like it was like snip, snap, snop, snap. It wasn't like that. Um, but the most important part for me then became healing on my own for my own reasons, without getting the answers, without getting explanations, and without closure. And I thank the Lord that I got that experience because after that I had to deal with closer relationships to me, where I had to acknowledge that I would never get closure. I would never get the answers. Having that moment of reflecting on my grandfather's passing, sitting down with you know the old friend, and realizing how much how much my husband, who was the person who told me I didn't need closure, was right. Where you have to take back that power and realize like I will not get the answers that the answers that you've been waiting for are never coming, and it's one of the hardest, most gut-wrenching moments of growth. But this isn't just about not getting closure, right? Because we've addressed that. We're like, okay, we know closure is a lie, our culture's starting to see it. I'm sure some of you are like, yeah, girl, I'm already there with you. I already knew that closure was a boop, boop, boop, boop, boop. But what do we do when we don't get closure? And like I like I said, this isn't just about not getting closure, it's about knowing that you have no choice but to move forward without it. Like, what do you do when you can't get the closure because maybe they passed away and the apology you wanted is now impossible? Maybe they don't care enough to explain, and you know that that realization is so brutal. Maybe they they they gaslighted you so much that even if they did explain, you'd never be able to trust their words. Maybe the damage was so deep that no words could ever fix it anyway. And when we realize the answers are never coming, then our mind starts to go into overdrive. And this is why I wanted to talk about this, is because okay, for some of us who have said, I already know closure's a lie, like me, I already know closure's a lie. It's a myth. I don't need it. What are you then replacing with? Because you can't just push it to the side. What are you actually doing to heal? If you know that you need cert, that your brain craves certainty, that there are loops that need to be closed, that you that you know that something has to have, it has to feel as if it has some sort of finish, which is so hard for us, right? Like if you know all that and you don't get that closure conversation, you don't get your last word, then then what happens is if we don't replace it with anything, we still keep ourselves in a cycle, in a loop. And so then our minds start saying stuff like, Well, maybe if I had said something different or did something differently, or maybe they feel guilty and they just don't know how to reach out, or I I've been told this, you gotta be the bigger person. You need to have this conversation, you gotta, and it's no, no, no. Um, maybe they were capable of giving you the truth, especially for people who have already gone after these conversations and these moments, and you walk away from it feeling no different than when you sat down, and then your mind is just soaring through what they said, what you said, that they really weren't forthcoming. Um, well, if that's the case, then why this? Or feeling like they're lying, but not having enough to be able to call them out. So you just gotta walk away with their word, but it's still not sitting right with you. Maybe the real closure is something that you have to create for yourself, something that I have to create for myself. And that last thought, that's The turning point. See, the truth I discovered is that closure isn't a requirement for healing. It's a choice. A choice to honor your pain without being defined by someone else's response or lack thereof. Healing is your responsibility. It's our responsibility. It's an individual responsibility. It's your journey and your freedom. You have to stop handing that power over to other people. We don't always want to hear that closure is not what heals you. That's hard to hear. But true growth, what really begins to heal you is when you start to process the emotions, not when you get the right conversation. It's acknowledging your pain, your disappointment, your anger, and deciding that they no longer control your story. And remember, in um Broken Bodies uh roots, sorry, in the roots episode, we already talked about emotions. We talked about how those emotions affect us. And you have to remember that our emotions are good things, they're signals. But when we suppress them, when we push them down, that's when it becomes bad for us. That's when we stay in this cycle and in this loop. We have to start facing whatever it is. We have to start dealing with our emotions and keeping reason and keeping that balance because once you have that, the emotions, the signals that happen to us that were created and put in us so that we can be aware of what's happening around us and within us, they are there to help guide us. They are there to help say, hey Britney. I don't know if Britney's listening. I'm just made. I don't know why I'm always saying Britney, anyways. Hey Brittany, you're you're still hurt. Hey Tony, you're still angry at your dad. Hey Lucas, you're still disappointed that your mom didn't show up for you in the third grade. Hey Ashley, you're still holding on to the pain of your father leaving you. You've been waiting to have a conversation, to tell him off, to tell him how you really feel, to hear why he left you, to hear why he did what he did. You have not let yourself process those emotions. You have not been acknowledged even that you still hurt. You trying to put the put the armor and not the armor of God. You're trying to put the armor on and keep the walls up and try to act like you're so tough and so bad, and I don't need nobody, and I don't need him, and I don't need them. When deep down you you you want people, you want your dad. You miss and and long for and are hurt by the fact that you don't have that relationship. A lot of our triggers come from when we see something, when we experience someone, something, sorry. This is about facing the truth that some questions will never get answered, and realizing that you can still be okay anyway. Healing isn't transactional. Someone doesn't pay you or give you something so that you can finally heal. Forgiveness isn't a trade-off, it's not something you give only if someone says or does the right things. Forgiveness is a choice you make for yourself, not because the other person deserves it, but because you need peace. Some people think they need closure, but what they actually need is clarity. And there's a difference between closure and clarity. Closure feels like peace given to you by someone else, but it keeps you dependent. It says, I can't move on until they explain themselves or they validate my pain or I get my last word. Um, and then clarity, on the other hand, is internal. It's realizing that you already have the truth, but it's a truth you might not be ready to accept yet. It's recognizing your power to see reality clearly without needing anyone else's confirmation. Some of us have the truth, the clarity that we need. But if you don't take time to figure out what that clarity is, you'll keep yourself dependent on this idea of closure, waiting for explanations and answers that won't come, and even when they come will still be unsatisfying. Instead of again going after that clarity, being clear in the mind, having the understanding and the information that you need. You now listen, the clarity may not be about the person. You may not get the answers about the person and why they did and who they are and their makeup, but you can get clarity about the situation, you can get clarity about yourself, you can get clarity on the fact that I'm going to have to move on without what I need, and that is okay. Clarity that you know what, just because they left me doesn't mean I'm a bad person. Clarity that, you know what, that situation, it hurt me. We both said our things and did our things. I'm not innocent, they're not innocent, but I've owned up to what I've done, and maybe they have, maybe they haven't, but I know my part like like you need clarity, not closure. You don't need permission to heal, you don't need an explanation to accept reality and that peace that you're craving, it doesn't live in someone else's words. It lives in your ability to face what you already know. And I want y'all to hear me, hear, hear my heart. This is not about shaming you for needing answers. It's about empowering you to take charge of your healing, your growth, your life. This podcast, I'll be telling y'all over and over again, I'm not here to make y'all try to be dependent on me. I want you all to realize and to be empowered and stand strong in the fact that you, my friend, were created for hard things. You are resilient. You are strong. When you think about just the way our bodies are made up, our minds are made up, and then when you dig down and realize how your soul is intricate and so valuable, baby, like you gotta stand up on your own two feet, hold your head up high, and realize that you have the power to take the reins of control back of your life. It's about deciding that your growth matters more than their explanation. It's deciding that your soul deserves peace, whether they have ever, whether they will ever acknowledge their role in your plane, in your pain, excuse me. You don't need closure, you need conviction, you don't need permission, you need perspective. Most of us already have the answers. We're just waiting for someone else to say them out loud, but that's not going to happen. And then what do you do? And that's what this is about. And then what do you do? And that's not something I can answer for you. You have to answer that for yourself. I want to close with saying that closure can work, and that's okay. Closure is a very natural instinct, it's not a flaw. It's our mind's way of seeking resolution, it's the heart's way of finding rest. We are wired to look for meaning, to want things to make sense, to crave a final chapter that ties everything together. And when something painful ends abruptly, whether it's a relationship or friendship, or just a chapter in life that we weren't ready to close, as I mentioned earlier, like even with my job, it's normal to want answers. It's normal to want acknowledgement. I almost took myself back down a dangerous, slopey field when I started to let my mind go into why and why are they ripping the crop around money with this job? What am I gonna do now? What am I? And then it was like, hold up. You better remember who you are. And you know what I told myself, y'all? I said, I came into this job as Alexandria. How I got this job was because of me. How I moved up in this job was because of me. Me losing the job is not me losing myself. Everything that I brought in, I take out with me. Everything that I became, everything that I worked on, all the skills that I have, all of that is still mine. They didn't take anything away from me except for again a job, maybe some paycheck, maybe some benefits. But those are not things that I don't know why I said that so country. Those are not things that I cannot get again because I am still me. In fact, that job was probably holding me back. They were probably holding me back, y'all. And I had to snip, snap, snip, snap. But okay, back to what I was saying is that um it's normal to want closure, it's normal to want answers, it's normal to want acknowledgement. And I want y'all to hear me that seeking closure does not make you weak. It doesn't mean you're stuck, it means you're human, it means you care. And in some clo in some cases, um closure can be healthy, it can be transformative, but it's important to recognize when closure is possible and productive versus when it's only keeping you tangled in the cycle of waiting, hoping, and reliving old pain. Closure is valuable, but it's not required for healing. And the difference between those two realities is where the real growth begins. And some of you have been waiting, you've been spinning, you've been replaying, you've been holding on to the idea that if you could just get one more conversation, one more explanation, one more apology, then you'd finally be free. But what if that moment never comes? What if the words you're waiting for are words they're never going to say? What if the clarity you think you need is something you already have? The truth is closure is a lie. It keeps you waiting for something outside of yourself. When real healing, that's an inside job. That happens within. Closure makes you believe that your peace is in someone else's hands. But listen, your healing is not on them. Your freedom is not tied to their words, your future is not waiting on an explanation. The only thing keeping you stuck is the belief that you need permission to move forward. If closure isn't coming, what are you going to do? Stay stuck in the loop? Are you gonna keep hoping for answers that may never come or are you gonna do something different? Because here's the truth: you don't need them to free you. You don't need the words, you don't need the closure, you need a decision, and that decision is yours to make. And even when you get those moments where you get the closure, you sit down and have the conversation, or you know, closure. I say that in air quotes. When you sit down and you have the conversation, you're able to explain yourself, they're able to explain themselves. Knowing this, knowing that closure is not something that you need in order to heal, allows you to walk into that conversation differently. You walk into that conversation with different questions because your expectation is not, oh, I need this answer in order to heal. You walk into that conversation with a different type of speech prepared because you know what, you know that you know what, me trying to get my last word, my last lick back is not gonna actually help me heal. We've we've conditioned ourselves to think that, man, if I get to say what I want to say, if I get to do what I want to do, then all will be well and it'll be gone. But as we've talked about in this episode, as we've talked about in the revenge episode, you don't walk away feeling any better. But here's the thing, y'all. Most of you already know the truth. You already have the answers, you already know what it is, and we're just waiting for someone else to say it out loud. But why don't you say it to yourself right now, and then I want you to go live like someone who's finally done waiting. I want you to go flourish and grow and heal and blossom and cherish the life that you've been giving, knowing that you don't have to wait, you don't have to rely, and you don't have to depend on someone else's words or lack thereof in order for you to move on. I hope this helped. I hope this, I was trying to say, I hope this pod I was trying to say, I hope this episode helped. I hope that you enjoyed this conversation. And as always, I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts. Please share them with me. Please connect with me on Instagram and go to renovatingtheSoul.com, sign up for the email list. I want to hear where you guys are at. I want to hear your closure stories. I want to hear, please tell me when closure has worked for you. Because there's definitely times where I've gotten the answers that I needed, and okay, cool. Then there's those times when I got the thought I thought that I got the answers right. And as I said in the beginning, I got some answers, and then I didn't, I didn't like the answers, and I made up something else because I just wanted I needed an answer, and it wasn't good enough. So I want to hear all your stories good, bad, in the middle, whatever it is. I love y'all so much. I thank y'all so much for listening. I appreciate y'all from the bottom of my heart for being here. And until next time, let's keep doing the work to renovate our souls and let's keep building a foundation for who we are meant to be.