Leadership: Leading Yourself & Others

In this episode, Brandon, Jilliane and Ryan discuss what it means to lead yourself, the importance of it, and how it affects the way you lead and influence others around you. 

Relevant Scripture: 

Romans 8:13

1 Thessalonians 4

Genesis 1

Colossians 3

Galatians 5

Romans 12:2 

Colossians 1 

The Workshop exists to equip and encourage young adults to live out their faith in Jesus—in their friendships, workplaces, families, and relationships. This podcast creates space for honest conversations, biblical truth, and practical wisdom as we “workshop” what it looks like to live godly, purposeful lives in every season. Our community is for those committed to becoming more like Jesus, together.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Hey y'all, welcome back to the workshop on this podcast. We workshop what it looks like to live godly, purposeful lives as young adults. And I'm here with Brandon and Ryan today.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

What's up, y'all? Hello.

SPEAKER_00 0:21

Hey, and we are going to be talking about how to lead yourself. And before we jump into all the content, Ryan, would you want to explain to the listeners how this topic came about? Because it came about kind of in a conversation between the two of us.

SPEAKER_02 0:36

Yes. I don't know if I remember the kind of thing. What's going on?

SPEAKER_00 0:43

We were talking about my memory real quick. Because a lot of the podcasts were talking about people leading in ministry or leading their friends or leading in dating, potentially, or leading in marriage, technically. And I mean, it was kind of like a half joke, but you meant it. You were like, people need to learn how to lead themselves before they need to lead other people. And I was like, honestly, true podcast.

SPEAKER_02 1:02

And so Yeah, no, I do remember. Yeah, I think that was exactly what they did. Hey, she took leadership in the uh no, but I yeah, to add to that, I think, and I and I don't know, I maybe I can be cynical sometimes, but I think we're so quick to be like, how can I lead this? How can I lead that? And it's like you you can hop into a leadership position, but it's going to fail, or it's not going to be what you think it is if you're not first leading yourself. Meaning, are you living the example that you you think you know should portray? Or like you're like, man, I want to lead this group of people. It's like, okay, well, where are you leading them? And and really what I think why I get passionate about this is the quick backstory behind this mentality is I remember when I was in uh high school and my youth pastor, he was doing his thing, he's he's preaching to our youth group, and I'm like cracking jokes with some of my buddies in the back and or just something, or just chatting with him. I don't know. I was causing a distraction, and uh my youth leader grabs me aside. I'm like, oh geez, he's gonna he's gonna get mad at me. And he was like, Hey man, I just want you, I just want you to know, like you, you're leading your friends, like you're a leader in this youth group. Uh it wasn't like a there's no title to that. He was just like, hey, you you you have leadership with these people that you're with. Uh I just want to ask you a question, where are you leading them? And I was like, uh, I don't know. And he was like, I want you to think about that. And that was the first time someone really spoke into, like, hey, you're a leader, but then also it gave me the kind of insight to be like, Man, where am I leading them? And then I was like, Well, I guess I'm leading them where I'm going, and where I'm going is not a great place right now, so I need to change some things in my life. So I think that's where leading yourself comes from.

SPEAKER_01 2:49

It's really good. Yeah, I think about that idea of like, um, if you were to replicate yourself to like a group of people, what would be true culturally of that group of people? What would be true of like their habits, their discipline, all of that? And so I think even really when we think about leadership in that way, a lot of leadership is there is a multiplication of self, or uh you're pointing people in some direction, but if you're pointed in a different direction, then that's ultimately where you're gonna lead people, even if your words say one thing, your actions, behavior, and lifestyle will lead people in a different direction.

SPEAKER_02 3:26

Yeah, or it's just like confusing and exhausting. And people are gonna be like, I don't think I want to follow this guy because he doesn't he doesn't do what he's saying we should do. And and we're I will say we're just talking about like the doing side. There's a whole whole other side of leadership of like that's just your character, not just what you do. Yeah, the being side of it. But yeah, it's kind of like confusing and exhausting. And and to caveat, and maybe even just to save our own selves, it's like you're gonna you're gonna lead poorly sometimes. And that's not that's not necessarily you not like a uh result of you not leading yourself. But if you are consistently leading people in a way that's confusing, or leading up people in a way that's destructive, or anything, it's like you have to look at yourself, like okay, how am I leading myself? So it's not just like a oh, if you lead yourself, you're gonna be the perfect leader. It's like oh that's just not that's not it.

SPEAKER_00 4:17

Yeah. So what does it actually mean to lead yourself? Because I think people can only label leadership as having a title within something, but that's not necessarily true. So, what do y'all think about what does it mean to actually lead yourself?

SPEAKER_02 4:31

Yeah, I when it comes to leadership and this is gonna be a roundabout way of how do we define leadership? Yeah, I guess that's a better question. How how I would define leadership is being in a position to influence uh for the benefit of a group or for the benefit of an objective. Uh and and I think really more so the the character of a leader. Uh I our world would look at and be like, oh, the leader, he's got the C-suite, he's got, she's got the you know, bigger paycheck, they've got the authority. There's all these perks to being a leader. Everyone looks to them, they're awesome. I want to be like that person. Uh that's what our world would say. And there's some there's some truth to that. But like you look at the leadership of Jesus, very opposite of that. Uh, there were some moments where, like, yeah, people looked at him, they're like, I want to be like him, but like ultimately they hated him, they killed him. He he gave himself. It's sacrificial. Uh, and so I think we kind of need to rework maybe our idea of leadership of like, oh, I want to lead because I gain these things. No, no, no. I want to lead because I want to give of myself. Uh, I want to sacrifice myself as as Christ has sacrificed himself. And so leadership really is giving of yourself daily. Uh, giving of yourself for the sake of a people, for the sake of an objective. Uh, it is not a gaining. If you find yourself gaining a lot in leadership more than you're giving, uh you you're not leading, you're just taking from people. Uh it's it's a it's a great con artist move. Um, so that's leadership. How do you lead yourself? Well, okay, well, you sacrifice yourself daily. Uh, what are the things in your life that are that are causing you or pulling you away from the person of Jesus? And so uh practically what that is what that looks like is like, is there sin in your life that's like unrepented? Uh is there sin in your life that you're like, okay, it's not a big deal. Like, I don't really need to like bring this to the light, or uh, man, it's something I'm I'm working on, I'm working on, but I'm you know not really seeing any progress in. Uh so there's unrepented sin. Like that's a great way to lead yourself is you repent, like you confess your sin to the Lord and you you you turn from it. Another thing is like straight up just consistency. Like, are you consistent in what you say you value? Do you value them? Like, man, I value like I really love getting in the word. It's like, okay, do you consistently get in the word in the morning before anything else throughout the day? Like, are you consistent in that? Um, so those those are just a couple little things of like how you can practically lead yourself. It really is like the heart work. Uh it's it's it's crucifying the flesh inside of you uh so that the spirit may live.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

Yeah, Ryan, you mentioned uh towards the beginning uh like that word influence. And I do think that that's a big part of it. That's John Maxwell, who's like the leadership guru of all uh leadership gurus. He says leadership is influence, and it's just like this really simple definition. And so it's how are you influencing others? And which gets to, you know, it's more than just a title, it's more than just a position that you hold, but it is any area of your life that you have influence over somebody else. We certainly have a lot of influence over self, right? Uh so there's always going to be at in every season of our life an influence and a leadership of self. A couple of things that that I just think of whenever I think of leading self, though, I do think of the person of Jesus because I think that he is just the model of leadership, he's the model of of godly living in our lives, and if that's what we're seeking to do, uh then I think it's important. And Jesus actually had a long season of his life where he was leading himself, yeah, right before his ministry began at the age of 30. He had a long season where he was learning to lead himself, and so I think it's funny how quick we are to try to grasp for the title or to grasp for the platform or whatever it might be. And Jesus, uh I I it was it's not credit to me, but it was funny. I was watching a uh just a video of Francis Chan, who's awesome. Uh, he just has so many great things to say, but he kind of posed this question uh what was Jesus doing at age 22? And it's like, well, I don't really know. Like he was a carpenter, I guess. Um well, what is Jesus doing at 25? Well, I don't know. He's carpenter. What was he doing at 28? He was a carpenter, and then he made this point and connected it to 1 Thessalonians 4. It's he said it was almost as if he was seeking to lead a quiet life, working with his hands. And this is exactly what 1 Thessalonians 4 says. It says uh to make it our ambition or to s to aspire to live quietly, minding our own affairs, and to work with your hands as we being Paul instructed you, so that you may walk properly before outsiders and dependent and be dependent on no one. And I think that there is this uh element of leadership of self that's like, hey, you can just live a quiet life that is marked by discipline, that's marked by submission to God and his will for your life, that's marked by self-control. And I think that in preparation for any season of leading others, uh the Lord really wants to instill a season of hey, do you is your own life marked by discipline, submission, and self-control? So those would be kind of three key elements that I would point to.

SPEAKER_02 10:06

Yeah, you you hit on a really good point of like the thing that you can influence most is yourself. Uh and there's just there's a saying that I tell my lacrosse guys that I coach that uh I'm like they can get so caught up in oh, the ref made a bad call or so and so didn't do this. I'm like, hey, hey, like just control what you can control and influence what you can. There's this ownership of like I'm gonna control the only thing that I can control, which is actually myself. Uh and even that, that's that's a really big task in itself. So just focus on that and then influence what you can. If there's something that you can influence, given like your desire is good, you know. So for these lacrosse guys, like their desire is to play well, like it's a good desire. Uh, if your desire is good, man, influence what you can. And so that I mean, speaks to like that. I was like, hey, live a quiet life, like focus on uh the details, the the minor, kind of maybe boring things of sharpening your character. That when the Lord does like lead you in a place to where you're in a leadership position, uh I think of Pastor Greg says this, he's like, Man, everyone wants to preach, but not everyone has something to say. Like when they get up on the left where it's like, dude, that's so true. Everyone wants to lead, but a lot of people don't really have any direction where you're leading. Like, oh, I'm a leader. Okay, where are you taking them? I have no idea. Everyone wants to have some sort of influence, which I think is good. Like you think you think about it, like we're made in the image of God. Like, God is a very influential being, person. Jesus is the most influential person. We're made in his image, so yeah, it would make sense that we want to uh enact change and transformation in our world, uh, but that starts with the inward transformation.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Yeah, yeah, it's good. Yeah, I just thinking, Ryan, based on what you're saying, the you know, Genesis chapter one, what does God give to Adam and Eve? He he gives them dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing. And so I do think it's natural to desire that. But what do you see in Adam and Eve? Although given dominion over everything, they cannot lead themselves, yeah. Uh, which ultimately leads to the fall of creation. Yeah. And so uh because we are creatures of influence, because we are yeah, uniquely designed for leadership, I believe, it becomes even more important that we're able to lead ourselves because it will have effect downstream on others.

SPEAKER_00 12:34

With that in mind, how does the way that you lead yourself shape the way that we show up in every other area of our life, whether it's work or relationships or ministry, serving in ministry, being in the church, how does the way that we lead ourselves shape that?

SPEAKER_01 12:48

I think going back to something that we said early on is that by nature you will multiply certain parts of yourself into anybody that you're seeking to lead. I I forget who told me this. Somebody told me that essentially within two years of leading an organization, the people or group or person that you lead will have adopted much of what is true of you. And so essentially it's this high bar to say, okay, yeah, if I'm not first leading myself in some direction, then I will naturally cause others to experience the same thing that I I have felt. An example of this might be, you know, this is maybe a unique example, but I think oftentimes I talk to people and they kind of talk about family lineage. You know, they had this this flaw in their a parental figure growing up, and then they always said, I'm never gonna be like that. And yet what happens is they so often repeat that to their own children and to the next generation. And I think that that's a picture of a lineage where something has not been addressed in character or you know, in something internal that has then been passed on to others. And I think that that's an example. Like if we don't address, Ryan mentioned uh putting sin to death, if we don't address that, if we don't allow the Lord to really renovate our heart and the character uh flaws that we have, then then those shortcomings or those things that that are true of us will be repeated and passed on to others.

SPEAKER_02 14:34

Yeah, and I think I mean we're we're probably gonna end up saying the same thing uh multiple times. But yeah, the again, the way you lead yourself, the the values that you hold yourself to, the standards that you hold yourself to, uh, the commitments that you make uh will overflow to the people around you. Uh we see this in many ways of like uh in marriage, like a husband and wife, they become very similar because they spend so much time together. Uh you're the sum of your closest five friends. Like there is something about being around one, even if you're not in a leadership position, uh the way it influences your relationships is is how you conduct yourself, how you carry yourself, um the what you say is good and what you say is wrong. Uh all these little things, I mean they they sum up to influencing those around you. And so um just like what Brandon was saying of just like you're like, I'm never gonna do this. Like, okay, well that's a great aspiration, but a way to lead yourself is you actually put action to that aspiration. Uh there's there's great desire, but where it falls flat, I think often in leadership and then also in just self-leadership, is you have great desire, but then there's no action, there's no commitment behind it. Yeah. Uh i.e. like New Year's resolutions. Like uh right, what is it like February 7th or something like that? Is like it's like National Quitters Day. It's like that's like not that long, dude. Right, it's not. Um it's evident like this is a real problem uh amongst humanity, and and I would even say amongst our generation of just how easily we can get distracted. And so self-leadership is being committed to something, which means like there's an aspiration, I'm gonna put action to it, I'm gonna commit to it, I'm gonna keep my eyes focused on it, I'm not gonna waver on other things. And so uh for the listeners like what are the things that you value? What are the things that you want to be true of yourself? Not again, not for self-gain, but for like self-sacrifice. What are those things that you want to be true and focus those things? Write those things down, ask the Lord God, how do how do I how do these things become true of me? You want more wisdom? Ask for wisdom. You want more humility? Ask for humility. You want to be a patient leader? Like ask him to give you patience, uh, which is hard, which is why you have to commit to it and stick to it and keep your eyes fixed on like, hey, this is why I want to lead myself, is because it does have impact on those around me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:49

Why do y'all think we tend to think about leading other people before we lead ourselves?

SPEAKER_02 16:55

Oh, dude, it's so easy. Yeah. Like, yeah, it's so easy to tell someone else to do something and you not do it, right? Like, like that again, because this idea, like the leader is the one giving the orders. The leader's not the one who's having to do it. So uh great example for the Metro volunteers. It's super easy for me to tell the ops guys, like, hey, we need to clean up this thing, and then be like, okay, y'all got it. Like, it's a lot harder for me to be like, hey, let's clean it up. I'm gonna clean up. You want to help me. Like that's a harder thing to do. And sometimes, like, granted, like sometimes time doesn't allow, or there's other priorities, whatever. Like, this is a small example, but it's like so easy to tell someone the right thing to do because you don't actually have to do it. And so leading yourself is you actually have to do it. Uh, you actually have to put sin to death in your life. Uh, you actually have to be committed to something, uh, as opposed to just being like, hey, you should totally do this. Like, I know what to do. And I think that's the thing is like we're really good at knowing what to do, and then we just don't do it.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:50

Uh, because it's hard. And so, like, doing hard things is really good. But it's hard.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

And it's easier to like give advice than to take it. I mean, everybody does that. I do it all the time where it's like it's so easy to give advice and and share wisdom and give somebody direction. But when you're in that spot, it becomes a lot harder because you're the one who's having to die to flesh, you're the one who's having to make the hard decisions and commit to doing something that might challenge you or be uncomfortable. And then with other people, you're like, what are you doing? Like, of course, duh. But with yourself, it's harder.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

Yeah, and I would also say that I think that it gets back to just a gross misunderstanding of what leadership is. Um, I think that that's a lot of what's at this root of us desiring to lead others without the willingness to lead ourselves, is that we don't actually know that man, if we can't die to ourselves and lead self, then we are definitely not ready to die to ourself at the level that it is to lead other people. Um, I think about my my family, and and you know, daily is this there's a wrestle of the flesh um to say I can choose to lead my family in a direction that serves me or that serves them. And I think that that is first established with self is is your life about serving self or is your life about serving others? Um, because the greater leadership you actually have according to Jesus, the more you need to die to self. Uh that the first will be last, and the last will be first. And so if you want to be first, then you better be ready to be last. And so I just think that we don't really understand what leadership is, and we desire a platform or we desire influence, but we don't actually know the the level of again, just death to self that it will require of us.

SPEAKER_02 19:48

Yeah, and being able to lead yourself really enhances your actual leadership of people. Uh it it's like if I were to read a book on I don't know, read a book on something and tell you about it. It's like that's great, you learn some things, but if I've read the book, lived it, experienced it, I'm gonna give you a lot more color on how to how to do this thing as well. And so it enhances your leadership when you're like, hey, I've I'm doing this myself, which is what that is, just credibility. Uh like something I try I tell guys a lot whenever I'm meeting up with them, I was like, hey, we need to get really good at doing hard things because we're not good at that. And I say that for a while, I'm like, it's a constant check for my myself. I'm like, man, am I am I daily doing something hard? Uh, because this is what I'm telling guys. This I'm there's a practice that I'm giving guys to do. One of those things is like, man, go on a daily prayer walk. Like, man, am I doing that? Like, and there's days I'm not. I'm like, dang, I I I don't feel credible to lead and to to encourage these guys to do this in this moment because I'm not choosing to. And it actually helps me to be like, okay, well then I'm gonna go and do it. Uh so there's this duality of like self-leadership where it's like, man, it gives you credit, but also there is there should be a healthy sense of accountability to like, man, if I'm leading people in this direction, I too need to go in this direction as well. Uh because you can't lead people in a direction that you're not going.

SPEAKER_00 21:08

We've gone in circles of like why it's important to lead yourself, what it like what it is broad spectrum, but when it comes to somebody wanting to lead themselves well, how do they lead themselves? And what are some like diagnostic questions for them to ask themselves? Am I leading myself well?

SPEAKER_01 21:26

Yeah, I would say coming back to a few words that I mentioned earlier, which I I I believe are key in a biblical sense of what it looks like to lead self. Again, if we're just to kind of quickly note this, there's probably a big difference in like what somebody like in the world would say is leading self versus what we would say according to Christ. It means leading yourself. I think according to the world, leading self is you know investing well and making good financial moves. And stewarding, like you know, working out a lot. And that's all that is great things. And so I'm not saying that those aren't important, but I would say uh that there's a few things that are unique to Christians of what it means to lead self. And so that's gonna be kind of my focus as I talk about this. And so I would say like submission is first. You see, all throughout the life of Jesus, Jesus says, it's actually my food, it's my sustenance to do the will of the one who sent me. And so uh it is recognizing that our actions, that our initiatives, that our priorities don't come from self, but they actually first are inspired by God. And so are you walking in submission to the revealed word of God would be kind of the first question. I think that that's absolutely crucial to leading self. Uh another diagnostic would be kind of this word self-control. Uh self-control, I think it gets to both patterns of sin that could be destructive to us. Uh, so it's sins of commission and it's also uh sins of omission. Like, are we uh are we able to control ourselves to not do the things that are destructive to self and to do the things that are actually edifying and building up to self? Again, I I think specifically this is this is the things that are revealed in God's word. So it's resisting sin, fleeing from sin is actually the language that scripture would use. Um, and then it's putting on righteousness. Colossians 3 talks about what we put off and what we put on. And so uh I would say submission and self-control are are two of the main keys to say, are you leading self?

SPEAKER_02 23:58

Yeah, uh to just double down on that, I guess. Galatians five, uh it it says walk by the spirit and you you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. Um if you walk by the flesh, you will not gratify the desires of the spirit. And so there's this idea where we're talking about leading yourself, which which is true, and and there are there it's applicable, but really what that means is like you said, submitting to the spirit, uh actually being led by the spirit. Uh and so I you know it can get confusing of like lead yourself, let the spirit lead you. And really it's it's one and the same. It's submitting to the spirit and then controlling yourself, which is exactly what you're saying. And I think by submitting to the spirit, uh, that is where like the knowledge and the the how to comes from. And then the self-control is okay, well, I know what not to do. So I'm not going to do that. I don't know what to do. So spirit, I'm I'm relying on you, uh, but I know what I shouldn't do. Uh that is that that is anything that would be sinful, anything that would be destructive, uh, anything that would be hurtful. Like I know not to do those things. So I'm gonna control myself to not do those things. And I think about like in like the in the fitness world, there are some things that you you you do need to do. Uh you need to go to the gym, you need to lift, you need to run. Uh, those things take maybe some help of someone training you in those things. Uh but then there's some things that you don't do. Uh you don't eat junk food. You don't just sit on the couch. So those things like you you kind of just know. It's there'sn't there's not an understanding of like, well, how do I do that? It's like, well, you just don't do it. Like you don't eat, you don't reach for the donut, man. Uh and so it to to put more of like a kind of simplistic way of what you're saying, is like there are some things that we need to learn from the spirit. And so submitting to him is crucial. Uh, but then there's some things that I think we just inherently know where it takes the strength, the self-control to be like, I will not do these things. Um like high-level-ish.

SPEAKER_00 25:52

Yeah. How would you encourage people to assess who's influencing them in their life, like day to day, when it comes to like people they're consuming on social media because we're all addicted to our phones, or people that we're surrounded by? I mean, Ryan, earlier you were saying we become the average of our friends, or like the people who are just speaking into your life. How can people assess that?

SPEAKER_02 26:15

Yeah. Uh this is this is gonna sound funny, but like in a way, like very practical way, like look in the mirror, or if if you're in a position where uh you get recorded or whatever, like listen to yourself. Uh, what do you what are you saying? What do you sound like? Uh and then also that's the one thing of you can observe of yourself if you can. Uh, but then secondly, really just taking a a diagnosis of like what am I intaking? Uh what am I putting into uh my mind, into my thoughts, into my soul, uh, because what you feed grows. And so uh it's really important, again, kind of kind of going back to the fitness stuff. It's like it's really important to track what you eat because what you eat determines your health. And so for your life, like, man, what are you allowing to to enter into your life, like to be able to do a self-diagnosis of that? And so maybe it's looking at your screen time, maybe it's looking at who you follow. Or I I was talking to a guy about this the other day, which is which is a pretty scary, crazy, inaccurate thing. Like, if you've got Instagram, look at your for you page, man. That will that will tell you your heart. Uh, it is it is crazy.

SPEAKER_00 27:26

Like, what's the algorithm selling to you to double down on?

SPEAKER_02 27:28

Yeah, because the algorithm is really good at at knowing you. And and so there's a guy who I was meeting with, and I was like, I was like, just candidly, I was like, man, do you struggle with uh like lust? Like looking at pornography. He's like, No, not really. And he was telling me some things, and I was just like, not that I was like, you're lying, but I'm just like show me pages. Show me your for you page.

SPEAKER_00 27:50

Honestly, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:51

And it's evident, man, that I was like, I think this is something you struggle with, whether you realize it or not. And so maybe for very applicable, like look at your for you page, and it'll show you like what you focus on a lot, which some things maybe aren't bad, like not everything's bad, but it will tell you what is influencing you. The algorithm will shout out to it.

SPEAKER_01 28:11

I'm an I'm a little novice to uh Brandon's like, actually, can y'all show me up to it? Well, no, I it's just it's just funny that like yeah, the concept of that mine is like all sorts of um just like reels of church people and stuff like that. Well, we know Brandon's like Brandon and your super church. No, it's just it's just funny. Um I'm like, I I always get the same things. They do know me because it's like they know what I'm gonna watch and listen to, and it's a lot of just like, what are other pastors saying about stuff? So, anyways, but uh a couple of things that I would say on that is I do think it's interesting, you know, that when we're talking about influences, especially the influence of the world, I think that it it works more like more like erosion than it works like uh snapping your fingers and you're gonna change overnight. And so I think that that's what's so dangerous and insidious about some of the the effect of this is because you probably won't see it day by day. Like to use the mirror example, like we look at ourselves in the mirror every single day, and so we often don't see changes that are happening, like if you know our face is changing, or you know, I'm getting bags under my eyes or whatever, like it's harder to see that. Um, and I think the same thing is often true about like our spiritual life or our values, is because they change so subtly over time. And yet, if you let kind of this river of social media influences and cultural ideologies just run over your life every single day, you will change. There's a quote by a guy, an unnamed person. I don't I don't remember probably Brandon. Yeah, it's it's it was me. No, but he said, it is impossible for you to have a Christian mind while consuming on a daily repetitive basis the uh basically the media of our world. Um and it's like wow, like to make a practice out of consuming in a almost religious manner, you know, whatever that show is, you know, and uh honestly, I I do do think that a huge influence is these like romance reality TV shows and just like how that erodes our view of like what love and romance is. And so when we constantly religiously consume these things, you just need to know that will influence you. And so the question is not how can I tell? It's like, yeah, if you're consuming it, just know that you are being influenced by it. It is impossible for you to not be. So I do think that that goes into just evaluating honestly, what are your main influences and knowing that that is going to begin to shape you a thing. I mean, Ryan, you kind of said this in in a way, but I think that like this would be a a helpful thing, um, a trusted, godly, truth-telling friend to allow you allow them to audit your life, allow them to audit your social media, allow them to audit your Netflix account, and just to speak truth to say, honestly, are these things for my good or are they to my detriment? And we probably know the answer to that, but sometimes it's the step of allowing somebody to speak the truth into our lives. And so maybe you and a friend link up, swap each other, and allow each other to look into that and just speak honestly into whether or not what you're consuming is influencing you in the right direction.

SPEAKER_03 32:00

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:01

No, and and to add to that practice, it's gonna be really tempting for you to want to lead the other person. Like, if you're swapping with a friend and be like, okay, let's like do an audit. It's like, okay, let me focus on that person. It's like, no, no, the purpose of this is to focus on yourself, right? Like, there's so many times where like, okay, the take the focus off yourself. Like, you should be thoughtful of others. Like, this isn't the moment where you should be like, no, I'm gonna think about me for a moment. What is what is wrong inside of me? What is what is not uh displaying the image of Christ inside of me? Uh not my buddy, yes, I'm gonna help him, but like this is not about helping him or helping her. This is about like what I'm doing. And then also what you were saying earlier, Romans 12, too, comes to mind, do not be conformed to the to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect. Uh so to your point, it's like I mean, it it's so which we all know this, but it's so crucial that you are not conform to the pattern of this world. Uh and at the same time, like this may be just like a little side tangent, but at the same time, like it just destroys any create creativity that we have, is when we're conformed to this world. And that's not to say like this world is the worst, it's terrible. Like there are broken things in this world, that's true. But you just think about like the trends, everyone's hopping on the trend because everyone thinks it's you know funny or popular or whatever, and then everyone does the same thing, and everyone burns out on it, and then waiting for the next trend. Like there is something really sweet about seeing someone who's leading themselves, and you're like, Oh, that's different. Like, that doesn't look like the rest of the world, and that's actually in today's world, that's actually I I believe desirable for a lot of people be like, oh man, that person's like actually not like everyone else. Like, that's refreshing.

SPEAKER_00 33:47

Yeah, and it takes a lot of humility to be able to look at yourself and be like, wow, I'm not living the way that I actually want to live. If your standard is living like Jesus, you have to be humble enough to recognize that and allow people to speak into it. And as you're saying earlier, Brandon, like if we submit ourselves to the truth and the commands of God, we're gonna have to sacrifice something that we want or that we want to do, that our flesh wants to do, but it requires a lot of humility and submitting to something that's greater than you, which is God.

SPEAKER_03 34:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:19

Kind of the last thing that I would like for us to cover as people think through this and apply it and reassess and redirect things in their life, and they look back at the way that they're leading themselves and then in turn influencing other people. How can somebody recognize if they're worthy of following? And when I say that, worthy there doesn't mean your value in and of yourself, but is your example worth following? So how can people know that they're worthy of following?

SPEAKER_02 34:49

And it's honestly, I mean it's a it's a little bit of a tough question to put a to really put your finger on because there's because there's so many things that influence that idea of or what we would maybe think of worthy. Uh a couple things that I think the world would think is worthy. Uh the world would say, Oh, you're worthy of following if people are following you. Okay, sure. Um like the world would say like you're worthy of following if you if you've got something special. Okay, maybe like you're worthy of following uh if you're if you're a really strong presence and you you know how to you know how to influence a crowd. Okay, maybe like you know, all these all those things like there's something to that, but it falls flat. And and as I was thinking, like, man, you're worthy of following because uh simply because if you could say that you're faithful, which is a lot of these things, it's it's being able to submit, being able to be consistent. Uh and so like what does it look like for you to be faithful in the very, very, very little things? Like, think of the smallest thing in your life. And can you say I'm faithful in this? Uh I'm faithful in the sense of like this is something that that blesses the father, that that would make him happy. Uh this is something that he would look at and be like, Yes, that is good. That is my son, that is my daughter, this is this is what I desire from them in the smallest things. And so maybe for you, that's like this is like such a silly example. Uh, but maybe for you, it's that little piece of trash in your pocket that you're like, I've a trash can, but I'll just I'll just I'll just accidentally drop it out of my pocket or whatever. I did that the other day and I had to like chase it down, and it was this it was the dumbest thing. But I'm like, hey, I'm I'm I'm going to be faithful in the little thing. I'm not going to litter. Um and so like it's a silly, silly example, but like, man, if you will be faithful with a little, you will be faithful with a lot. Um that's that's true of Jesus when he shares the parable of the talents. Like what you what you are given to steward, what you're given to be faithful, and if you are faithful in that, when you are given something big, you will be faithful. I think we get this idea of like, hey, when I get a platform or when I get this X amount of money or when I whatever, then that's when I'm gonna lead. It's like, no, that that's the whole point of like leading yourself, is like, what is the smallest thing you can lead right out? It's yourself. And so if you do that faithfully, you will be worthy of following. And the reality is you're just not gonna care if people follow you. Uh you're gonna care because you're like, hey, I'm going a good direction. I want y'all to come with me. But like, if you don't come with me, you're lost. Uh and so when you lead yourself, it's like, man, I'm just worried about myself. I'm just concerned with myself. Am I submitting to the spirit? Am I like crucifying the flesh daily? Am I faithful to Jesus? And if so, that's great. He can send me a lot of people that will follow me. He could send me no one to follow me. Uh, but I'm just I'm content with being faithful to Christ. And that's it.

SPEAKER_00 37:40

Yeah. It's like when Paul says, follow me as I follow Christ, it's like if you remove you out of it, are people following Christ better? Or are they just following you better? Yeah. Like, I I don't want it to be true of me for people to be like, wow, I want to be more like Jillian. It's like, no, I want to be more like Jesus because I see Jesus in the way that she or he lives their life. And so if your goal is for people to follow Jesus better and follow his lead because you're following his lead, then you're worthy of following because Jesus is worthy of following. And us as individuals are not necessarily worthy of following, um, only if it's by the leadership of the Lord that we're worthy of it.

SPEAKER_01 38:22

Yeah. Yeah, I think that that's so good. And parable of talents is one of my favorite uh of just that idea, Ryan, that you mentioned of being faithful to what you have, and the Lord looks at that and blesses that, and then oftentimes will give more. But the focus for us is just being faithful with what God's given us. The one verse that came to mind for me as I was thinking about that word worthy is Colossians chapter one, which says uh it's Paul saying he's praying that they would be filled with the knowledge of his will and all spiritual wisdom and under understanding, so as to walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing to him, bearing fruit in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God. So it's it's really just this question of, you know, are you worthy for others to follow? Well, are you worthy of the Lord? Again, not in a sense of uh of earning the approval, but has the gospel had the proper effect in your life? Are you walking in a manner which is fully pleasing to God, bearing fruit and increasing in knowledge? Those are the three things that it says. I think, yeah, whether your life is pleasing in the eyes of others, that's gonna rise or fall. Uh, but is your life pleasing in the eyes of God? That's what matters. Uh fruit. Uh is is your life marked by fruit? Ryan mentioned Galatians 5, the fruit of the Spirit. Is that present in your life? And then are you growing in knowledge of God's will? Again, if submission is key, uh, then we want to know what God says is good, what he says is right, what he says is pleasing, and then we want to walk in that. So that's what I would say is like, man, walk, don't, don't wor worry as much as if you're worthy of following as much as you if you're worthy of the gospel in the eyes of God, if you're fully pleasing to him, bearing fruit and understanding his will.

SPEAKER_02 40:20

Yeah, just one last thing to maybe try to tie a bow on this for the for the listener, like, okay, this is a lot of a lot of information about how to lead yourself. Uh and and I think we've been, or maybe I've been dogged on like everyone wants to be a leader, but no one wants to, you know, there's this like, hey, focus on leading yourself. And yet there is such a good desire to lead, uh, because we've been given a mission to influence the world around us. Like as Christians, like we have been given a mission to take the gospel to all nations, uh, to teach them the ways of Jesus. And so we should desire to lead. Like this, I hope no one's leaving and being like, well, I don't really want to lead. Uh because I'm maybe I'm not ready for it, or whatever. Like, no, we should desire to lead. And so the way we get to a place where we do lead, again, it's not for self, it's for sacrificial gain of other people knowing that the person of Jesus. Uh, and the way we get to that is by leading yourself. And so uh for the for the I was I was I was tempted to be like, hey, if you don't want to lead, then don't worry about leading yourself. Like keep doing your thing. But it's like we should desire to lead. There should be a deep desire to lead, but not for self. Uh for the sake of people knowing the person of Jesus. And so the way we do that is we first become credible in the sense of like, man, I'm consistent, I'm submitting to the spirit. Uh whatever sin is in me, I want to get rid of it. Uh, whatever is good in me, I want to grow. Uh anything that is that is wrong, I want to resist, and anything that is right, uh, I want to commit to. And so all these things, these are the things that we know, it's just a matter of do you do it? Yeah. And again, that's why we're like, man, self-audit, where are you at right now? The way to get to a place is to know where you're at, where you want to go, and then be have the consistency to stay on that path. And so first thing, like, where are you at right now? What are the things in your life uh that you need to lead yourself that you haven't been leading, that you've just been letting the world lead you? And then secondly, where where is the person of Jesus? That's the direction. Uh, and then you just rely on the spirit, like spirit helped me today. Uh Lamentations three, his mercies are new every morning. And so every morning, God, I need your mercy. I can't do it myself. I need you to lead me as I lead myself so that I can lead those around me to where? To your feet, to your throne.

SPEAKER_00 42:37

Yeah, really good. Well, I'm encouraged and loved talking about this, not because we are perfect at leading or we're perfect at setting the perfect example, um, but we know who perfect is, and it's Jesus. And we just hope and pray that this is encouraging you and pushing you towards the person of Jesus and who God is. So if you liked the episode, like, subscribe, rate it. How many stars? All five. And we will talk to you guys in the next one. Bye.