A Conversation About Your Past

In this episode, Brandon, Jilliane and Kadin discuss reflecting on your past and sharing your testimony!

Scripture references:

Romans 8:1

Genesis 2:25

Romans 12

John 16

1 John 1

Philippians 1

John 4

2 Corinthians 5:17

1 Peter 5:10

Isaiah 43:18-19

Mark 5:19

The Workshop exists to equip and encourage young adults to live out their faith in Jesus—in their friendships, workplaces, families, and relationships. This podcast creates space for honest conversations, biblical truth, and practical wisdom as we “workshop” what it looks like to live godly, purposeful lives in every season. Our community is for those committed to becoming more like Jesus, together.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Hey everyone, welcome back to the workshop podcast. On this podcast, our team workshops, what it looks like to live godly, purposeful lives as young adults. And today we are talking about our past. Not our past, but like the general public's past. And I'm here with Brandon and Caden.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

Hey, it's me, Caden. Hey, it's Brandon. How's it doing?

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Before we get into it, I am going to start by talking about how we were just watching Kaden's high school football highlights.

SPEAKER_02 0:37

Oh my gosh. He brought this up. I'm like, I don't I don't want to see this. I'm not interested.

SPEAKER_01 0:43

I did not bring this up. Brandon pulls up my highlights on his laptop while we're in the recording room. I sure did. I confess to that.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

But Caden knows to the to the number how many rushing yards he had in his junior year of high school. I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_02 0:57

Jill's I was joking when I told you not to ask me that question.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_02 1:00

It was impressive. I will say I only saw a few things, but there's a couple of touchdowns in there.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

It was nine. That is so funny. Oh, I love reminiscing on the past and like being nostalgic and everything. But today, this episode is going to be a conversation about your past. And in this context, or in the context that we're talking about it in, is about our testimony and reflecting on who we were in the past and comparing it to how who we are now. So before we get into it, I would love for y'all to explain to the listeners what a testimony is, because we can assume that people know what that word means, but it can be a little bit of a church culture word that people might not actually know how to define, or they might not actually know what it means. So how would you guys explain or define what a testimony is?

SPEAKER_02 1:50

Real simple, which is this is not a technical answer to this question at all, but I just think of it as the story of what God has done in your life. And so just looking from that perspective, it's not necessarily your life story, but it is a story of what God has done in and through your life. So as we're talking about this, maybe even for you listener, I'm just imagining pull up a table or pull up a chair with us at our table, and uh and just think of like, hey, what has God done in my life? And then what we'll be talking about a lot is how do we then talk about that and share that with others?

SPEAKER_01 2:23

Yeah, like the most simple definition you could give it is like what God's done in your life specifically. And I think of even like there, I think of like there's time for many testimonies where it's what has God done in my life in the past week or past couple days. And I think a lot of times you think about it as this overarching entire life story, and it can absolutely be that, and it should be that a lot of time, but it doesn't have to be that, it could just be simply like how has God moved in your life, period, in any way, is a is a snippet of your testimony. It's a good point.

SPEAKER_00 2:56

Yeah, uh in order to see what God has done and how he's changed things, we have to look back at what was, and so I want us to talk about why do our pasts matter in our walk with Jesus, but why don't they define us?

SPEAKER_01 3:10

Yeah, I think they matter because they they shape us in a way. Like they're gonna have an impact on who we are today and and kind of where we've come from and maybe what we faced growing up and how we were raised. But I wouldn't say they define us because as a Christian, if you're a believer in Jesus and what he's done for you, nothing else, the Bible would say, defines you outside of Christ Himself. So the work that Christ has done in your life is what defines you. I love Second Corinthians 5. It says, Therefore, if any was an if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away, behold, the new has come, and that new creation is really what defines you. And if you notice there it says, if you are in Christ, so the life of Christ is really what defines us in becoming more like him day by day. And the life that he lived is what we look to for hope. It's what we look to for identity in the deepest part of who we are. So while our past does have an impact, it's not that I'm uh minimizing the importance of our past, but it has no bearing on actually defining us as a human being, or or really maybe a better way of saying this is defining the way that God views us, right? It it could impact the way that others view us, maybe it impacts the way that we wrestle with how we view ourselves. But when God looks at us and we have accepted the sacrifice that Jesus has made for us, he sees a pure, blameless person because Jesus was pure and blameless, and therefore we can live guilt-free, shame free, and in this this new life, this life of freedom that we've been offered in Christ. And that's really what defines us as a human being.

SPEAKER_02 4:52

Yeah, I think that Caden, you're you're hitting so importantly on the identity piece, which is really that our identity is now, scripture would say, is hidden in Christ, that it is almost imperceptible to God because of how much Christ and his blood covers us as followers, those that are now believers. And so I think that that's what defined us when we think about our past, maybe just to even give a little bit of clarity around this, because I think we'll probably use that phrase a lot in a conversation about your past uh episode. But a lot of times what we're thinking of within the context of a testimony is our past prior to meeting Jesus, prior to Jesus saving us. And so a lot of times that's what we're thinking about. You know, it's kind of like the road that leads us to the person of Jesus. If y'all know, oh, who is that artist? Country artist, God bless the broken road. Um Rascal Flats? Rascal Flats. That song has been going off in my mind as we're thinking about this. I don't know if that song is about a girl or if it's about Jesus, but I'm thinking about it like Jesus. Um God bless the broken road. Baptize the Rascal Flats. There you go. Yep, that's it. He's talking about Jesus. I'm just saying it. But you know, it's kind of like, okay, although we have ups and downs in our life, it's it's the past, which is ultimately a path to uh finding or rather being found by Jesus and having our lives radically transformed. I will just say, as an asterisk to this, is when we think about our past, after Jesus enters into our life, like after he saves us from our sin, we are not without sin forevermore after that. I think that that can be a confusing and anxiety-inducing thing for people, is that if you've accepted Christ, sometimes you think, okay, well, you know, scripture says that I'm a new creation. The old has passed away, the new has come, but why does it feel like this battle of the old and the new? Like, why does it feel like the old still has its way in my life, or I relapse and I fall back into that sin? And that can be extremely discouraging. So, just as an asterisk to this conversation, when we're thinking about our past, like primarily, we're probably talking about after Christ, but then there is this whole process of sanctification, is the word that we use. There's a whole process of God making us more and more and more like Jesus. We were created in the image of God, and now God forms us into the image of Christ. And so uh our life can also, uh we can also point back to okay, maybe there's things that we've struggled after uh being saved, but ways in which God is creating us more into Christ's image, regardless, we're defined by who Christ is more than about who who we are or what we've done in our past.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

Absolutely. I think what you say is important, and I've even I even think of like the listener that that's listening to this right now thinking I came to Christ at five, six, seven years old, and I do remember my life before coming to Christ, but it's not this big dramatic fall on my face as an adult story that we sometimes hear. And I think you're absolutely right. Like when you're when you're speaking in the context of a testimony of the story of your entire life, oftentimes we can view it as what did my life look like before Christ? But I think what you say, Brandon, is really important to note. Like, I know me for me personally, I came to Christ as an adult, but even after that, like it's been a bumpy road. There's been ups, there's been downs, there's been maturity that's come, and and there's been times where I've I've messed up and needed to ask for forgiveness almost daily. So I think about the person that maybe did come to Christ at a very young age, and just to think about like that part of your story matters a lot. We talk about our why does our past matter, but why does it not define us? Well, it matters because it still has an impact on the way that God's worked in your life. It still has an impact on the way that you can impact other believers now by sharing your testimony with those people. What has God brought you through? How have you experienced the Lord's healing work or how he's brought you through difficult things? So yeah, I think that's important to note as well.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

Yeah, something that comes to mind. We train our volunteers at Metro every semester in a multi-week, just like class. And one of the weeks is talking about how to share your testimony. And part of the teaching we talk about no testimony is a bad testimony if you're making it about Jesus. And so we kind of reference like Timothy and Paul's testimonies. And Paul, before he was Paul, his name was Saul, and he was like a persecutor of Christians, and he had a radical change in his testimony of when he met God.

unknown 9:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:50

And Timothy scripture talks about how he references like his mother's faith and his grandmother's faith, and he references generations of faith in his family. And so even then, your past can also go into your family's past or your whatever generations of people that came before you that impacted your life. And I always say, also, as a person with one of the fall on your face crazy testimonies, I also love hearing people when they say, like, I remember at five years old, I kneeled next to my bed and accepted Christ with my parents. And I like hate that the enemy makes people feel embarrassed of that because it's not embarrassing. Like, praise God that you don't have the same scars that like other people do, and it doesn't lessen either one. And so, kind of going into the next question, what would y'all say to someone who feels shame or fear about their past? Because it could either be the quote unquote messy past or the quote unquote not messy past. What would you say to them who feel shame or fear?

SPEAKER_02 10:46

Yeah, I think I talk to people about this all the time. I mean, this past week, I was sitting with a a group at a table and just kind of had posed the question, hey, you know, where did the gospel meet you? Where did you you know, where were you saved, or how were you saved? And you know, there's people that have said, Well, I've I've never sh really shared this before, and there's a little bit of discomfort there. And one of the most encouraging things that I've heard, Timothy Attique has said, uh, you don't have a story to hide, you have a story to tell. And I think that that's that's just a phrase I've found so much power in that in my own life that if we truly believe in the redeeming work of Jesus, like not at an intellectual level, but at like a my whole life is covered, and there's not a single thing, past, present, future in my life that is outside of the realm of God's ability to redeem it, then I can feel the freedom to share without shame and without fear. And I think that a lot of that has to do with just overcoming this mindset of like, okay, I'm defined by what others say about me, or I'm defined by what others think about me, and more about I'm defined what God has said about me and what God has done in my life again. And so I think that we have a freedom to share because we first and foremost believe that God can redeem all things, and then second, that part of that redemption is that there is power in sharing. And so while we might feel f shame or while we might feel fear, I think that to give some encouragement that you have no idea how sharing your story can be a part of somebody else's story. Uh I've heard it before because you know, on Tuesday nights, our young adult group, we uh regularly have young adults share their own testimony. I've heard it so many times that when this person shared their story, I felt like I wasn't alone for the first time. Or I I I realized that somebody else has been through the same thing that I've been through. And it then opens the door and unlocks a new person's testimony. And so there's so much power and being able to share and just to give you confidence that God can redeem and God can use all that you've been through.

SPEAKER_01 13:13

That's so good. I and and honestly, that's what really a major part of how I came to know the Lord, to be honest with you. I think a lot of times for a somebody that's not even a believer yet, but somebody that's just exploring what it even looks like to follow Jesus, they might not want to open up and read through the whole New Testament or whatever, or maybe they don't want to, maybe it's intimidating to walk into a church building, maybe it's hard for them to show up to a small group gathering in the midweek. You know what's very relatable to them? Just somebody else's story, somebody that they can relate to and say, Man, I get this person. Um, they've been in my shoes. And that's like, man, I've heard story after story of how powerful that is of just sharing a simple, I mean, just a simple story of what God's brought you from and what he's brought you into, whether that's from anxiety to peace or from fear to joy or whatever that looks like and how exactly that worked out, that was a major factor in me coming to the Lord. And you know, I think I also think that like the longer that I've followed Jesus, the more I've come to terms with the fact that any thought that brings me shame really isn't from God. Yeah. And I think it's important for us to recognize that. Like, if if a part of your past keeps coming up in your mind and it's bringing shame into your thoughts about yourself, you can be confident that that thought is not from God. Yeah. God will convict us towards the truth, but it's always welcomed with this love and this forgiveness and this understanding that I don't want you, I don't want that thing for you because I love you. I'm a loving father towards you, and I'm not I'm not sitting here pointing my finger at you telling you that you're the worst. I'm saying I love you enough to bring you out of that. Those thoughts are from God. The name Satan in the Bible actually, what that term means is accuser. Satan is the accuser of mankind. Satan is the one that points the finger at us and says, You could never work for God, you could never do good things for the Lord, you could never be loved by Christ because look at what you've done in the past. And he wants to keep us under this burden of of living our lives and the shame and this fear, oftentimes about things what we've done that that bring guilt upon us. But always know, like, if if the thoughts from God, you might be convicted, you might you might think that's not the best thing for me, but it'll immediately be followed by this this loving invitation back into his presence. That's what God wants for us.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

Yeah, yeah. I I mean you reminded me of so much of what you're saying relates to Romans 8:1, that there is therefore now no condemnation for those that are in Christ Jesus. And it's like that I take that to mean literally like there is actually never a point in your life as a follower of Jesus where uh Jesus will look at you and condemn you, where there will be condemnation coming from God. And so um we are completely covered, we're completely washed. I love you know, just this is such a I mean, this is the gospel, uh, and this is why we are talking about all of this is you know the gospel is so intertwined with our testimonies, but um kind of to paraphrase elsewhere, you know, in scripture Paul talk about a list of those that he says will not inherit the kingdom of God, those that are idolaters and swindlers and sexually immoral, and then he goes on to say, and such were some of you, but you were washed, cleansed, and sanctified. And it's like we were once defined by our sin, uh, but now we're defined and identified by the work of Jesus in our life.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

Yeah, somebody recently pointed this out, and I it has stuck with me for months in Genesis, right before the fall, the last verse in chapter two is talking about Adam and Eve right before sin entered the world, and it says, And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed. And it's just interesting to think about how shame is the one word that God chose to write in that verse, and it's the one thing that God is saying, that is what is not from me. And there's so much shame that people carry, especially when it comes to things that they've experienced, whether it's been by their choice or done to them, people just carry shame. But once it is redeemed by Jesus, it change it should change the perspective that you have on what you've been through and what you've walked through. So I wanted to ask, whether it's in a personal context or how Jesus can do this in general, how can Jesus reframe the way that you see your past? Or how does he reframe the way that you see your past?

SPEAKER_01 18:03

Well, I think that grace is like the most important thing for maybe a person to understand to embrace their true the true version of themselves. Grace with ourselves, understanding that God has been gracious to us. What does grace mean? That may be a good thing to define here for a second. Grace is undeservedly being treated in a way of love and acceptance, even when you know that you've sinned against God, you've transgressed God, you've you deserve um the opposite treatment from God. And yet he chooses to offer grace to us as a free gift, the Bible would say, as a gift that he offers to us, not by anything that we've necessarily earned, but because of what Jesus has done for us and the love that God has for us. So undeservedly be being treated as a son or a daughter when really we should be treated as a stranger or somebody cast away from the presence of God because of the blood of Christ. And it's so important because that's the gospel, right? And we have to have because because we know the believer should know fully, not just intellectually, but know deep in their heart that God views me in this way, and and that unlocks us being able to view ourselves in that way. And when we can view ourselves in that way, we can become this true version of who God has created us to be. And and I think it I think it very much relates with the last question you asked because you bring up terms like shame and fear. If that's how we view ourselves, we're not gonna be that person that God's created us to be. We're gonna have this barrier, we're gonna have this roadblock into living the life that God has for us. And even an extension of that that I think maybe is just as important in the life of a believer because there's so much that Jesus commands us, specifically in the New Testament, and even as we look to the life of Christ in the gospels of how he treated other people, okay, we have this understanding first. God views me with grace, I can view myself with grace. Now, what does that produce? I can view others with grace. And if you cannot view other people with grace, everything becomes dysfunctional. All of your relationships become dysfunctional. A relationship that doesn't have grace is really just um manipulative, it's trans transactional, it's there's it's so much bad there. Um, and that's what the world's missing. I look around at the world, I see so much brokenness, and I and I just think it's because people cannot offer each other forgiveness, people cannot offer each other grace, and that's really integral to the part of who God's called us to be as well, as believers in Him. We should we should love other people, we should offer other people the same forgiveness that He has offered us. So I guess when you when you think about your past, when you think about ref reframing all of that in the way that it it it should um produce the life that you hope that it would produce in you, it's totally reframed by the concept of grace. It's totally reframed by the concept of how how God can now view us because of what Christ has done for us. And I think that's important for us not only how we view ourselves, but how we view others, and there's so much that's impacted by that.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

Yeah, just you know, and I feel like this conversation I just feel very pastorally kind of uh motivated in this because I I just I think this is such a sensitive topic, and I'm just thinking and even praying here for the listener that's uh hearing this and asking, is there any hope for my past? Like, what do I do with this? And and I think that the way in which Jesus has reframed the way that you uh see your past is that Jesus wants it. Like he wants uh you Past like you want everything that you have told yourself that you are unwanted for, like all the things that you've done that you feel like have disqualified you from receiving love in life. Jesus has said, I I want that part of you. I want your whole story. And and the beautiful thing is that Jesus doesn't ignore a single part of it. Like he doesn't pretend like it didn't happen. He he doesn't avoid the reality that sin is sin, and yet he does so with an attitude of grace. Like Caden said, Matt Chandler's said that there is not a single part of you that God wants distance from. John chapter four is one of my favorite passages that relates to this idea of your past or your testimony. And Jesus meets this Samaritan woman out of well, who is uh a woman who's partaken in great sin. Uh she's got a messy past, she's had multiple uh partners, and the person that she's currently living with is not her husband, and so Jesus addresses that, he he calls that out whenever she tries to hide from that reality, and yet he still makes himself available to her, actually proclaiming to her uh that he is in fact God, essentially. He he reveals to her, it's the first person that we see him, make that revelation to in the Gospel of John, and he does that so to a sinful woman ashamed of her past. And so there's this beautiful reality is that you you don't have to hide from it, but you also don't have to try to keep it from God. Jesus wants your past.

SPEAKER_01 24:16

Yeah, that's so good. I'm gonna comment on that too, Brandon, real quick, because I think this is a beautiful image of exactly what you just described. God rejoices over you when you return to him. No matter, I don't care, I really don't care, and God doesn't care where you're at. How however far you think you've gone, God rejoices over you. The Psalms would say he sings over you. I think of the parable of the lost sheep, super, super popular passage in the New Testament. And this is God Himself talking, right? God in the flesh. This is Jesus in the flesh talking about this lost sheep that he finds. It says that he calls together all of his friends and his neighbors, he brings them together, and he says, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep that was lost. Just so I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance. God sings over you, God rejoices over you, God prepares a feast with his friends before you when you turn from what we're what we're defining as your past, maybe some sinful ways that you've lived in for a while, and come to the one who's able to provide grace, to come to the one who's able to for to provide healing in your life, and so much goodness in your life. So please know, like, God, there's so much joy in in your heavenly father when his son or his daughter would just come back to him.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

This has kind of been a relevant conversation topic that I've been having with people in our ministry. I guess you guys are still touching on it, but I just wanted to double down. If somebody knows in their head like all these things, we can know the knowledge, we can know the scripture and know XYZ, but they feel like their heart is having a difficult time catching up to what they believe in their head, what would y'all say to them on how to move forward in like seeking the Lord and trying to connect the two?

SPEAKER_02 26:22

I would say two things, and these are probably not gonna shock anybody, but I hope that the way in which it's communicated maybe resonates with somebody here. I think that first of all, you we gotta ask the question like how do we change our mind, and then how do we change our our heart? Um, and I think that we've got to change our mind uh by education. Education leads to transformation. Romans 12, that uh we should not be conformed to the pattern of this world, but we should be renewed in our minds by the transformation of our minds so that we might know the will, what's perfect and pleasing according to God. And so we renew our minds through through teaching ourselves the scriptures by studying God's word, by knowing what he says about you. And so, you know, something that I've done in the past and recently is I I've just sat across from somebody and I've said, Hey, tell me everything that scripture says is true of you today, whether you get an F today or whether you get an A plus. Like what does Scripture tell uh about you? What is true of you, regardless of your performance? And to identify and to know according to God's word what is true about me. So I think it's it's reminding ourselves according to God's word, you know, Philippians 4, we talk about that as well, whatever's good uh and right and pure and just, think about these things. And then I would say, really, second thing is okay, now how does this get into our hearts? I think really the only way is that we ask the Holy Spirit to allow us to believe it, to communicate it to our hearts. Jesus says in John chapter 16 that when the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears, he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, um, is what Jesus says. And so uh I think that the Holy Spirit is what takes something from a truth on a paper to a truth internalized, to a truth believed. And so we regularly ask God, uh, God, would you make known to me what is true about me, what is true over my past according to what your word says. And so uh that's God's word, and that's prayer.

SPEAKER_01 28:59

That's really good. I think I totally echo everything Brandon just said. I think specifically, like the Holy Spirit's role in this is, you know, critical. I it it can't happen apart from the Holy Spirit, frankly. Just to tack on one extra note is the person that maybe is thinking, man, I I've I've been trying, I've been trying. I think there is a time and a space where maybe professional help is needed in a scenario like this, where if you are really continuing to wrestle with aspects of your testimony or aspects of your past, maybe there's trauma involved there, maybe there's deep wounds even from childhood that you're still wrestling with as an adult, there could be a time for you to seek out professional counseling. To help to, you know, maybe you're just that type of person that needs external processing. Maybe you need professional help in understanding the ways that this has impacted you and how to process through those things. So there's there's certainly no shame in seeking professional help when it's needed and when you've exhausted these other things that we're talking about during this podcast. You know, I think our church has a wonderful counseling service that we offer here. I know that there's a lot of other great Christian counselors out there. So maybe that's something that you start to consider to pray through. Lord, would you have me try that out to try to process through some of that stuff as well?

SPEAKER_02 30:26

Yeah. Yeah. That's a great point. Thanks for saying that.

SPEAKER_00 30:29

There are a lot of resources that you can seek out. So it's not just you alone, one, seek out God first, best resource. Um, and then there are other things also. And if you need help and you go to our church and you know us, pull us aside, let us know. We're here to help and point you in the right direction. So, how can someone know if a part of their past is healed enough to be shared with others? Does it have to be completely healed for someone to share it with others, or what is some wisdom around that?

SPEAKER_01 31:00

This is very nuanced. I think it's very contextual based on what you're sharing and also your relationship with who you're sharing it with. I think that there's never there's actually never necessarily a time where anything is off the table to share with anyone. And what I mean by that is there should always be someone in your life, hopefully, that you trust enough to share even the most difficult battle with. Um, because I think it's it's it's a it's a it's a dangerous place, I would say, to hold everything that you're going through just to yourself. Now, even if that's one person, maybe that's your best friend, maybe that's your mom, maybe that's your dad, maybe that's your pastor, even if there's one person that you can share with that you trust with that very difficult thing, I think there's always a place to share with one person. I will say that. Don't don't try to just hold everything, or maybe that one thing that you think I could never tell somebody about that one thing because I am fearful of what that would cause, or I am ashamed of of what that means about me. Don't let that lie become a barrier to bringing something that's in the dark to the light, because the Bible says over and over again, when we bring things to the light, when we bring things that are hidden out into the open, and we we allow somebody else into that to pray for us with that, there's healing in that. So don't allow those lies to get to you. Now, there's another side of this question where you know maybe you want to go and share it in a way that's gonna help somebody else out. Maybe you're gonna share it with somebody who's going through something similar to you, or you want to share it with your small group that you meet with, or maybe you want to share it with just friends or or even even somebody that's lost that's not currently following Jesus, and you think this part of your testimony would help to bring them to Christ. There's aspects within those things that I think that there should be a certain level of healing in your own life before maybe you go and share that openly with a bunch of people. And I think that that that's ultimately between you and the Lord, there it's hard to know exactly what that threshold is. I can't give you an exact definition of once you get to this point, you're in a position to share that. But I think once you're in a position where you you generally feel like like a lot of the things that we've already talked about, like it's not defining you anymore, it's not bringing intense shame upon you anymore, it's not framing the way that you see your past or your present and who you are as a person. Once you're freed from some of those thoughts, I think you can be more open to sharing this with some of these other groups of people. But ultimately, I think that's for you to it's such a deeply personal, like this whole topic about testimony is such a deeply personal thing that it's hard to give like uh clear guidelines to exactly the moment some of these things happen. Like a formula, like a formula for it. Um, I think like like what Brandon said, like trusting the spirit um and and trusting as you pray how you might communicate these things and who you might communicate these things with could be really important, but that's kind of what I would say on that.

SPEAKER_02 34:09

Yeah, I think a lot of it gets into how you define publicly, right, in this scenario, and I think that there are these levels to it. I I don't want to by giving, okay, there are some some scenarios where you might not be ready to share publicly. I don't want you to hear, oh, that means I can't I don't need to share at all, because to Caden's point, first John 1, it says, you know, God is light, and in him there is no darkness at all. We as well as his children should be people marked by light to not uh to not walk in darkness with our brothers and sisters. And so there are particular particularly things that may feel taboo in nature that we tend to hold on closest to. And I think that those are the things that will follow us most closely with shame, uh with confusion, with uh popping up in difficult relationships in our life. And so until we are willing to address some of these things, it doesn't go away, it it will follow you. And so again, find somebody that's very trusted in your life to share that with, but share it with someone um that can point you towards Jesus. Whenever I think about publicly, though, that's maybe more privately, when I think about publicly, if we're talking about sharing in front of a room full of people, let let's say that, or um, or maybe it's yeah, somebody that doesn't know the Lord, um, I've heard it said to, you know, you can share your scars, but don't share your wounds. So if when you touch something, there's an emotional response uh that feels as though, wow, this this really hurts, or like I'm not fully processed through this, or I'm getting re-mad talking about my childhood, or I'm, you know, unable to fully express the level of guilt that I still feel about what I've what I did in this scenario. I think it's good to, you know, to try to seek after healing and the restoration of the Lord in that before you feel as though you're constantly putting yourself out. Because what happens when you touch a scar? Well, you know, I've got a a scar on my shin and like I can touch it, and it I don't really feel any different. Uh it may look different on the outside, but it's not hurtful whenever I touch it. But when you touch a wound, it hurts. And so don't don't kind of uh put yourself in a position where you're constantly having to hurt yourself in order to share your story. So I think that there's maybe some wisdom in that.

SPEAKER_00 36:52

Yeah, I would say a really good book that I think is helpful for those who don't know how to identify people to process things with is this book called Safe People by Henry Cloud, who we reference on the podcast a lot actually. Uh he wrote Changes That Matter. Is that what that book is called?

SPEAKER_02 37:11

Changes That Heal. Changes That Heal, sorry, not matter. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 37:14

Changes That Heal and Boundaries. And he also wrote this book called Safe People, How to Find Relationships That Are Good For You and Avoid Those That Aren't. And it's not saying, oh, avoid people that are sinful and imperfect. It's that's a whole other thing. But it's talking about how like the most intimate parts of you, you should share that and process that with people who are safe. And if you feel like you're processing things with people who are hurting you or they're not the best people to be processing with because they haven't processed certain things that you're also hurt by, maybe you're not picking safe people. And so I would encourage you if you have any of those problems or relate to that, it's a really good book that you should um check out. So that's a great resource. And kind of related to this, as people are processing things and being honest and genuine with their friends and those around them, some people think they're sharing their testimony, but they might just be oversharing their trauma. So what would you say is the difference and how would you caution people to be more aware of what they're talking about?

SPEAKER_02 38:18

Maybe just one question uh for you to consider as you're thinking of sharing your testimony is what's the outcome of it? Is the outcome of sharing your story primarily to glorify God? Or is the outcome for for you to process your emotions? Um because I you know, I think that processing your emotions has a important and a healthy place, and I don't want to say like that you shouldn't do that, but when we're s talking about sharing our testimony, ultimately our testimony is a story of like we said, what God has done. It's intended to glorify him. And so I think to look to okay, I'm I'm sharing this and I'm rehashing everything and I'm you know getting deep into you know the the trauma every time I share it, you know, again you might be subjecting yourself to um to just unnecessary wounding in that to unnecessary um yeah focusing on your trauma, focusing on the the sin, focusing on your past as opposed to actually focusing on what the story is all about, which is about Jesus. So what is the outcome? Who does it point to? Maybe is a different way of saying that is as you're sharing your testimony, like what is somebody walking away looking at? Are they looking at your sin? Are they looking at your trauma, or are they remembering the power of Jesus at work in your life?

SPEAKER_01 40:01

Yeah, and I don't know if I'm thinking about this in the right way, Jules, but when I think about trauma, I'm really thinking about something that's been done to me that's caused pain in my life and not necessarily something that I've initiated. So it I think that in this, you know, are you sharing it in a way where when you're bringing this up, is there bitterness in you towards that other person? Is there still like this seed in your heart of um anger or um resentment towards this individual that's maybe caused trauma, or maybe this event that's caused trauma in your life? Or is it is it told in a way where maybe this is highlighted or talked upon, but it's not the the star of the show. It's not the hero of the story, it's not the main character. Christ is the main character, and the redemption arc after that trauma or that traumatic experience is the hero and the main character of the story. So the way that it's communicated and what is highlighted, or even even what you feel while you're sharing the story, I think you have to resonate with all these things. I think you have to maybe do a deep dive on where you're at personally with that portion of your testimony before you share it in a way that's that's healthy.

SPEAKER_00 41:35

Yeah. And just kind of the closing topic, which we've touched a little bit in different questions, but just kind of like tying a bow on it, the final discussion point would really be what would y'all say makes a testimony life-giving and healthy when they're sharing it? And how would you how do you share your past in a way that highlights redemption rather than glorifying sin? Kind of like what you're saying, Brandon. If people are just sitting and listening to you talk about your past life for like 20 minutes and then the last two minutes are like, and then I got saved and now I'm I'm here, that's probably not a healthy way to share your testimony. So how what would y'all say is a life-giving one and focus on redemption rather than glorifying their sin?

SPEAKER_02 42:20

Yeah, I think maybe to even just connect these two questions again. I think that, you know, it it does look very different to your point, Jills, of like, okay, you know, is it sitting around and and I say this with a lot of compassion, and so I I hope that it doesn't come across as as a lack of that, but is it you being embittered about how your life has been and sharing about XYZ that that hurt you without the thread of grace? Um is it you celebrating a sinful past and kind of like showing that you're you were cool to your Christian friends that have seen you after Christ? Um is it kind of is it kind of glorifying sin, or is it a a a measured and Christ-centered approach to say, hey, there was things in my life that I was shackled to, like I was enslaved to, I was addicted to, and yet Christ has rescued and redeemed me and still is healing me. I I've not achieved perfection, but I do know that Philippians 1 would say that he who began a good work in me will bring it to completion on the day of Christ Jesus. Uh is it is it Christ centered? If it's Christ centered, if it glorifies the person of Jesus, then we look at everything through the lens of oh, like we do not uh we do not. glorify any part of our story but Jesus. And also we don't hold um you know this is something that we work through. So if if there's bitterness in your heart, I'm not saying that Christ is not worked in your life or is working. But that's not the purpose of telling our s our story either is to point to all the ways that we've been wronged in the past. No, we just want to make much of Jesus. And so if people leave you sharing their testimony of thinking man, Jesus is pretty amazing. Then I think that that is a healthy way of sharing. I think just to close my thoughts on this, bringing it back to John chapter four one of the things that I love is in the story of the Samaritan woman, you know, she has this amazing encounter with Jesus. She goes into the town and it says many believed because of the woman's testimony. And then what we see is there's this crowd that comes and they they come to Jesus and then just a few verses later it says no longer do they believe because of the woman's testimony but because of Jesus. And it's that should be what this is right it should it we should say man we share our testimony which is ultimately come and see for yourself.

SPEAKER_01 45:24

Come and experience what I've experienced come and taste and see that the Lord is good and that people wouldn't uh wouldn't leave being directed to anything else than to investigate more of Jesus and who he is yeah I think I call it false humility and really it's just another face of pride where it's like um it's like man look at look at how hard I've had it or look at how far I was and look at how far I've come and and the natural inclination of our hearts is always to default to pride. It's really it's never natural for us as human beings to default to genuine humility and I see this even I see this still when I share my testimony with people just what you described Brandon of like am I glorifying my past even in a false in a falsely humble way of ooh look at me look at where I was I wasn't raised in a Christian household I didn't have parents that brought me up in the church I did I I found it myself. Look at that and I find my even even in the even if I'm being honest with everybody in my own heart I see that still and I I think a lot of us have a tendency to do that. And even the way that you worded the question Jills you were like what makes a testimony healthy Christ centered and life giving to others well it it answers it in the question is it Christ centered is it is it you centered and and you're a big part of your own testimony right so you you should be you should be a part of that story but is it Christ centered in the way of you were brought from death to life you were brought into in from this this sin that very much enslaved you very much had you captured and you were brought into a life of freedom and joy and peace and the fruit of the spirit that God offers us in him. So we have to be I think you have to be vigilant. I think you have to be vigilant I think you have to be prayerful when you're sharing your testimony I think you have to be in tune with the Holy Spirit and I think that you I think that you should recognize like there's going to be part of you that wants to glorify parts of your past even no matter how hard it is no matter how traumatic it seems to you there's a part of us that kind of clings to this in this in this weird way but Christ is ultimately the hero of our story and he's the one that saved us so we should very much be uh Christ focused when we're sharing our testimonies. Yeah and and real quick uh Brandon shared a verse to wrap up his so I'm gonna do the same here real quick because this this this kind of uh encapsulates the whole idea that I that I just shared in Mark chapter five there's a demon possessed man and he's well known by the community he has he's he's causing a lot of trouble obviously if you're literally demon possessed you are going to be in a dark place Jesus frees him from that and this is what he says to him at the end of that go home to your friends and tell them how much the Lord has done for you and how he has had mercy on you. Go and tell your friends listener how much the Lord has done for you and how much mercy he has done for you and watch God work through your testimony.

SPEAKER_00 48:50

Yeah I have one last thing to wrap up this is funny because I just shared this with a friend yesterday and I think Caden you might have put this in the show notes but in Isaiah 43 it says Remember not the former things nor consider the things of old behold I'm doing a new thing now it springs forth do you not perceive it I will make a way in the wilderness and rivers in the desert. And I just love that God is saying don't look back at the past he's doing something new and when he says I'll make a way in the wilderness I see that as hope and when and rivers in the desert I see that as life. And so don't dwell on the things of the past and trust that God is doing something new because there's hope and there's life that God is giving you. If you just realize that we are not the main character God is the main character and we are supporters and we are just the people who witness to others and share just what he's transformed and what he's redeemed in our life. So we hope this has been helpful. I really hope that you guys aren't carrying shame and fear and that you celebrate not your past but what God has redeemed you from whether it's you trusting the Lord at four or five years old or you finding him in your adulthood after you've lived either a whatever a quote unquote less crazy life or you've lived a quote unquote crazy life. God redeems sin and sin is sin. And we hope that this has been helpful and yeah encouraging to you guys so thanks for listening to the podcast maybe make sure you like subscribe and rate the show five stars this has been Caden it's been it's been great yep we're gonna wrap wrapping it up here. That's also Kate too caded well thanks for listening y'all we'll talk to you guys in the next one