46: Working Moms and the Mental Load No One Talks About

What happens when you've done everything you thought you were supposed to do (built the career, started the family, checked all the boxes) but still feel like you've somehow lost yourself along the way? In this bonus episode, Daffney talks with Angela Lee about the quiet burnout, people-pleasing, and constant self-criticism that so many women experience but rarely talk about. Angela shares the moment she realized that looking successful on paper wasn't the same as feeling fulfilled, how motherhood brought long-held limiting beliefs to the surface, and why discovering Human Design gave her permission to stop living for everyone else's expectations and start using her own voice. Together, they discuss what it looks like to question the stories you've inherited, let go of who you think you're supposed to be, and reconnect with the woman underneath all the roles, responsibilities, and "shoulds."

Connect with Angela Lee:

This Is How She Does It

In This Episode:

• (03:00) The invisible struggles no one prepares working moms for
• (05:10) The moment she realized something wasn't right
• (12:55) How your nervous system responds to your environment
• (16:00) Letting go of perfection in motherhood
• (20:00) Rediscovering who you are beyond your titles

Connect with Daffney:

liftprowellness.com

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Thanks everybody for joining us on another episode of Don't Fucking Shrink the Podcast. Angela Lee, fellow podcaster, is actually joining us today. And her story is all of our stories. One of my favorite things about learning more about Angela and hearing her podcast is how relatable her story is as a brand strategy corporate working mom with three, and how she realized one day, or maybe of her series of days, that she woke up and just something wasn't right. She was going through the motions, doing all the shoulds, and just not feeling connected any longer. Welcome to Don't F and Shrink, the podcast, where we stop playing small and start showing up big. I'm your host, Daphne Allwine. And I'm here to cut through the noise, ditch the self-doubt, and get honest about what it takes to live and lead with unapologetic confidence. Each week you'll hear unfiltered conversations, powerful stories, and in real life strategies to help you take up space in your life, your work, and your world. So buckle up because shrinking is not an option here. Let's dive in. Hey Angela, thanks for joining us today.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited for our conversation today.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Angela, how did you get started into podcasting?

SPEAKER_01 1:24

So my podcast is called This Is How She Does It. I interview working moms about this is how she does it because quite honestly, I was a working mom and I really struggled. I wasn't sure. Like, did I not get a memo? Like there's no books written on how do you become a working parent when you have these huge life transitions? Just a little backstory. You know, I have a son and then twin girls who were born 14 months after my son. So I was really thrown into it. Wow. I just took like, yeah, I took my, you know, standard three months off, went back into the office, and they say you're expected to work like you don't have kids, and then come home and parent like you don't have a full-time job.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

I work in marketing and there are a lot of working moms in the industry. And yet I felt like no one talked about what was happening when you went home.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

Yeah, no one talks about how tough it is at night to recognize that you're having these tough nights with these small children and still having to show up fully at work.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Exactly. And, you know, I just felt very unsupported. I was very surprised that no one was more real about this. And I was just going through all the motions. I really, you know, I had these three little babies, I had my corporate job, and I will say I had a lot of health. My mom was helping, I had a home daycare. And so we just went through the motions and didn't know a different lifestyle until COVID hit. And it was during COVID that I had this idea. Like I wanted to support working moms, but I wasn't really sure how. And that's when I initially got the idea to start a podcast, really sharing my story of burnout, but also learn from other women, right? Like other people have figured this out. And so I really used this podcast as a platform for me to interview other people. And in the beginning, it was me interviewing former managers and coworkers to say, you know, you're five years ahead of me. What really made a difference for you? How did you do that? How did you now get to a CMO position?

SPEAKER_00 3:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 3:35

And that's really where it started, just sharing these stories. And it's one thing for me to do it one-on-one, but I wanted to give these stories a larger place for it to be heard because I knew how valuable it was for me. So I wanted, you know, even if one person heard it and I can make a difference in that person's life, that was really what I was looking to do.

SPEAKER_00 3:54

Thank you. I it's really all I can say is that there are so many gaps out there, and whether it's based in shame or based on information or skill or just breaking the status quo, as I've noticed a lot in my work. It's just sometimes there are gaps out there. We don't know what we're walking through. We literally don't have the resources for. Some generations are feeling like they shouldn't share these stories, but I'm going to tell you, I have uh shared my birth story probably more often than people actually want to hear it. I wish, just like you, someone would have offered me this information. Now, maybe I wouldn't have been ready to hear it, but that is such a big space, especially in some of the work I do, that is so unsupported that women don't know how to make that transition or or bridge that gap or even prepare themselves. There's no way to prepare yourself. So I'm so excited that you chose podcasts because I think this is this is our way. This is our way of sharing our wisdom throughout generations. So that's huge. Now I got a chance to hear one of your recent episodes, which was a solo, which I know. You know, as a podcaster, it's what it's a very vulnerable and honest way to share. So it's it's always a very dynamic episode. When it's solo, it's just you. And like I said, you said I was going through the motions, I was checking all the boxes, I was doing all the shoulds, because very early on we're taught that people pleasing or we're shown a quick way to get approval from other people from the well-meaning people around us. Now, can you tell me about that moment? Because I think that don't fucking shrink moment is really my favorite part of this show. But in that moment, what was that, what was that flip? What was that switch? How did you know that this is this is not working for me and I need a new way?

SPEAKER_01 5:48

Oh, I love that question. Thank you for asking it. And I know that's what your show is all about. But if you listen to that episode, I talk about how I grew up as really reliant on external validation, the people pleasing, going through the emotions of all the shoulds, of living everyone else's expectations, doing what I'm supposed to be doing. And going back to when I went back to the workplace after having the kids, I felt like I was failing. And I think that's what so many women are gonna do in their heads. Go, the first person that they're gonna blame is themselves, right? Why can't I do this ideal? Everyone else is at work doing it. They're not complaining about it, they're not talking about it. What's wrong with me? And I will say again, it was during COVID where I finally had that opportunity to stop and think and be like, am I happy? On paper, I had every single box checked. I I had the perfect life. I had these three kids, I had a great job, I have a great husband, but I was so unfulfilled inside. And it took me, you know, a few years. But this is where that aha moment came from. I remember like being on a business trip, being sitting in a hotel room, finally away from my kids. This was right before COVID. And this is when those inklings started happening. Like, what am I working for? What am I doing this for? And I was in this hotel room by myself, and I finally had that moment to ask myself and pause and say, Am I happy? And the answer was kind of no. I was like not depressed or anything, but I wasn't feeling fulfilled. I wasn't doing anything anymore for myself. And I didn't even know who I was anymore. So it was during COVID that I really took that time to say, like, who am I? What, what do I want? You know, if you work with a coach, they're saying, What are your desires? And even my husband was saying, Okay, well, what do you want? Just go out for a girl's night. And I was like, I don't know. I A, I don't know what I want. And B, I don't know if a girl's night is going to solve this problem. But it still took years for me to unravel this to a place where I can stop shrinking myself because that has that was so conditioned in me. And so I work with a coach and she talks about like, where are you too much in your life? And my first instinct is I'm not too much anywhere in my life. I have never been too much. Yeah. I have always been the quiet wallflower. I don't want to vote. I have strong opinions. I don't do this, I don't do that. There's nothing where I'm too much. But then I flipped it and was like, oh. I have done that because I'm scared of being too much. So I've squashed that my whole life to the place where I thought that was who I was. But it wasn't. It wasn't who I was. And it wasn't until I learned about my human design where I saw I had, I don't know how familiar you are with a human design, but I had a defined throat center, which shocked me because I was the kid, you know, the model, quiet Chinese girl who doesn't talk. She didn't even raise her hand. She got good grades, but like got zero for class participation because I was so afraid to speak up and be judged or whatever. And so I didn't talk. And now I saw my human design and was like, this is your superpower. You are here to share your voice. And that's where I was like, okay, well, maybe I can do this podcast. But then there was still a lot of fears before I got over the mental blocks, you know, and all those limiting beliefs in my head, like, how am I going to find time to do a podcast? I work full-time. I got these three kids, you know, and have a husband who's a wonderful person.

SPEAKER_00 9:33

Be selfish and do something you're passionate about. I have to tell you, I have dabbled in the uh in the uh human design. And I find it so fulfilling, right? In the fact that I'm not looking for human design or in when I when I did some work myself, like I'm not looking for answers. It's sort of like validation. Cause when you go ahead and read what human design offers for you based on what your information you're giving, you're you're just sort of like, oh yeah. Oh yeah. And you're sort of like putting the puzzle pieces together when that happens. So can you explain to our listeners a little bit about what human design is? I think that's probably the best way to start.

SPEAKER_01 10:13

Yeah, yes, exactly. I think it did exactly what you said. It gave me language for how I was designed to communicate and operate in the world. But basically it's a a self-assessment tool. We know Myers Briggs and Aneagram. And I always struggled with those because it asks you a series of questions. And depending on the day and how you're feeling and you know, your ego that days, it your results is going to be dependent on how you're answering these questions.

SPEAKER_00 10:43

And who people want you to be, right? What makes other people comfortable? Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 10:48

Exactly. And what makes yourself comfortable. But human design is actually a self-assessment tool that uses three questions that are just facts. So it's based on your date of birth, time of birth, and place of birth. And it gives you a what they call a body graph that shows you how you were designed to operate in the world based on where the stars and the planets and everything aligned. So it's a system that does marry ancient wisdom, the Hindu chakra system, the Chinese I Ching system, with quantum physics and more of these newer age theories. And so it sounds kind of woo-woo, but it is surprisingly and crazily accurate. And so again, you're not using your mind to answer these questions. It's basically based on the energies of the time you were birthed, when you were born, and how you what is your potential and how can you show up in the world. And also what I love about human design is that for every part of that you talk about in your body craft, there's a shadow side and a highest expression side. And so where I was a people pleaser, I was in that low vibe shadow side of how I was showing up. And once I recognize that, that gives me the power and that authority to say, I don't have to live like that anymore. That's not who I actually am. And how can I stand up and really stop shrinking myself and share my opinions, share how intuitive I am, because I didn't even realize that was a thing until I saw my chart and share my voice because I'm here to use my voice and influence people.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

Yes. You know, it's it's one of those things too, where especially if you grew up in a community or a family that's has sort of a personality or has a certain way of doing things, right? And you have this new tool to say, okay, it doesn't matter where I grew up, what my nurture was, right? This is sort of a question of your nature in some ways. All right, Angela, here's here's the fun. You ready for this? On the count of three, we're gonna say what our type is. You ready? One, two, I bet I can guess. Three. I'm a generator. Interesting. Okay, good. That also explains why you were interested in starting something new, like creating something, right? Developing a podcast. I think that's really cool. So, Angela, one of the things that we often go talk about a lot on this show is how our nervous system really shapes and really, really plays a role in our physiology and our mental health and things, and things that determine and shape our actual experience as a human being. And what we know about the nervous system is it's really external. It is the nervous system is just responding to its environment. It's it's responding to things outside of us and it's our security system. So, one of the things that you said, and I love that you talk about, is how self-criticism is so loud for a lot of women. Can you talk about that?

SPEAKER_01 14:01

Yes. And it's something that I've worked hard over the years to overcome. So now I am my biggest cheerleader. I heard um one time, I think it was like a parent coach say, how you speak to your kids today is how they will speak to themselves tomorrow. And that really, really stuck with me. And this was even before I had done any of this work and started learning about my nervous system. And, you know, I grew up in a Chinese family, and Chinese people are just generally a little bit more critical. They don't say, I love you. They're they don't express their loves in a verbal way, like my mom cooks and does all the things. That was her way of expressing her love. But I always felt like I was never good enough for her, right? And so I was lucky because like dad is you know also Chinese, but they're a lot more affectionate, would fill up our emotional bucket. But I actually internalized when I started doing this work, and someone's and I would say something about a limiting belief, they would ask me, Well, whose voice is that? And I was like, Oh, my mom's voice. It wasn't something that I said, it just became so a part of me that I thought it was me. But when you really break apart, it was my mom's expectations that were placed on me that made me feel a certain way about money or visibility or you know, that not being not too much. And so that caused me to shrink for so much of my life. And I will say, you know, once I had kids, this is where I finally felt like I could step up in a way that I hadn't before.

SPEAKER_00 15:43

And you have a big job to do a huge job to do, right? Yeah, to unlearn that.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

Yeah, and and step up and start protecting my children, protecting my boundaries. And a part of that, and then I had to think and talk to myself differently. And just one simple, simple little example of this is when I had my son, he was my first, and I was trying to breastfeed him. And you know, like at the time it was breast is best, and I got it in my head. Oh, I'm a failure if I can't breastfeed him. What's wrong with me? The one thing that like my body's supposed to be doing for my child is to feed him, and why am I having so much difficulty? Even if when my husband and my mom are saying, It's okay, just go on formula. You had formula.

SPEAKER_00 16:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 16:29

And again, that was like that self-criticism, thinking I was a failure. And part of it was also just this mantra to myself of like, okay, like give yourself a break. It's okay. Tomorrow's a new day. Maybe tomorrow we'll be able to breastfeed, and maybe we won't.

SPEAKER_00 16:47

I love that. That's brilliant because it because it does. It takes a fair amount of deconditioning. And we know moms have a tough job. We know as new, as moms ourselves, it is a tough job because you're under a microscope all the time or it feels that way. And we have to really come back and parent ourselves in a different capacity. In what would my child think if they heard me talking to myself this way? Right. Because you don't talk to your children that way. There, you didn't turn to your baby and say, What is wrong with you? Why won't you take the breath? Like there's something you would never talk to your baby that way. So why is talking to yourself productive? So I'm glad you said that because it is true. I think a lot of times, and and we get into our own heads, but like you said, a lot of times these are conditioned voices behind us or voids or or things that we feel like we're missing emotionally. I I had a really profound discussion with my husband this morning when we were talking about our children. And I have always, and and and my oldest is five now, but I have always struggled with the fact that it was COVID, we all had to get back to work, and I had to send her to daycare at four months old. And I know that I beat myself up every single day, dropping her off. And I also thought about it in a monetary context, right? Where how much money am I spending when I could be spending time with her? But one of the biggest pieces I gleaned and said out loud to my husband today is I said, what an incredible investment I made. You know, just changing the verbiage or the way of thinking about it. She is such an articulate, outgoing, loving version of herself. And I'm going to be honest, I struggled early on because I did not have mom skills. I had a similar upbringing to you, where I did not have those emotional mom skills to really connect and relate and self-regulate in the way that I probably needed to mostly. So I did. I made this huge investment to also put her in the care or partner with care with other professionals, because turns out I wouldn't have known that then, but I know that now that that's what she needed. I didn't have the skills yet. She needed that support to be who she is now. And it gave me the opportunity to build a skill during that time because I had zero mom skills. We're always coming in with zero mom skills, even if we have, you know, wisdom from other people. So I was able for the first year of my second baby to spend more time with her and not have her in full-time care. And because I now I had the skills, I had the strategy, I had the self-regulation to have that conversation and work differently. So thank you for also acknowledging that this is a work in progress, right? So I love that you traded up. So that's really the wrap-up. It's like you traded up your verbiage instead of saying, that's it, breastfeeding, you know, finality, this isn't working for us. I failed at something. You came in with this really profound thing. I don't know if I would even have the skill then to say, we'll do it again tomorrow. We'll try again tomorrow. Angela, where were you at before all these titles? Like, who were you before you took on mom and corporate strategist? Like, who were you?

SPEAKER_01 20:16

I think that's something I'm honestly still discovering right now because I think I was so conditioned at such a young age that I never got to explore that little girl who was just me. I think I'm finally now coming to a place where I have that roadmap through human design. And like you said, I love that term that you used around reparenting yourself. And having kids yourself is the first time that you're cracked open to identify these triggers that you're like, where did that come from? And now I'm learning to reparent myself and also be that person that I was born to be without those titles, like you said, because I for so long I was like a student. And then, you know, like, you know, you you get all your career titles and you get your accolades and your diplomas, and you lose sight of who is the person at the core, and is that person happy? So, like I said, it's an evolution, and I think I'm still discovering that person right now.

SPEAKER_00 21:22

I love that. And I think that's something we can all connect with and identify that even if you're 60 years old, if you're 80 years old, there is always an opportunity to reflect and think what brings me joy? What do I really connect with? And that is a work that I think is ongoing throughout because part of our conditioning, especially as women, is to do what's safe, do what is expected, right? Follow the footsteps, don't color out of the lines. All the things that really taught with good intention, I think, is just how to move you forward really disconnects you from those really important fundamental learning edges that we that we do. Angela, thank you for joining me today. Thanks for being part of my podcast. Thanks for thanks for sharing your story. Because like I said, your story is everybody's story, and we are a constant work in progress. Where can people hear more from you or connect with you?

SPEAKER_01 22:26

Thank you, Daphne. It's been an honor to be able to meet you and share my story with you. And I just really appreciate that you say my story is everyone's story, because at the end of the day, we're we're a collective and we all want to do our best. And so I hope by sharing my story, other people can hear a little bit of, you know, inspiration or motivation to think about things a little bit differently in their own lives. But to connect with me, I have my podcast, which is called This Is How She Does It. You can find it on Apple or Spotify. And I would just encourage everyone to come and hear more about who I am and hear some of the interviews that I've done with other incredible working moms on my podcast.

SPEAKER_00 23:11

That is how she does it. She didn't fucking shrink, right? Thanks, Angela, for being with us. Hey, I know that you know a friend who can really connect with this episode. So be sure to like, share, and comment because we are building this community together.