48: Why "People Pleaser" Is the Career You Need to Quit

Words are the brand. That's the whole premise Daffney and Denise Tallcott build on in this episode. Denise spent her early career in radio developing a "look at me" persona, until an entire Facebook group formed around hating her at just 22 years old. She walks through what that season taught her about authenticity, why she now calls herself a recovering people-pleaser, and how she rebuilt her voice from the ground up. You’ll learn why the words you choose matter, how your relationships shape your future, why failure is often your greatest teacher, and the simple mindset shifts that can completely change your life.

Connect with Denise Tallcott:

denisetallcottleadership.com

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In This Episode:

• (02:10) Recovering from people-pleasing
• (09:40) Surviving public criticism at 22 years old
• (13:05) Your relationships become your glass ceiling
• (21:10) The question that changes your entire week
• (23:20) Why slowing down isn't falling behind
• (27:15) Systems that create freedom

Connect with Daffney:

liftprowellness.com

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey everybody, thanks for joining us for another episode of Don't Fucking Shrink the Podcast. You know, words are really important. The way you speak, the way you show up, the way you represent in the world is your brand, is your fire, is your purpose. And with me today is Denise Talkett. And she is a keynote speaker and a coach who helps women find their voice, represent who they are, and also not be afraid of what their actual purpose is. Welcome to Don't Fing Shrink, the podcast, where we stop playing small and start showing up big. I'm your host, Daphne Allwine, and I'm here to cut through the noise, ditch the self-doubt, and get honest about what it takes to live and lead with unapologetic confidence. Each week you'll hear unfiltered conversations, powerful stories, and in real life strategies to help you take up space in your life, your work, and your world. So buckle up because shrinking is not an option here. Let's dive in. Hey Denise, how are you?

SPEAKER_01 1:10

Hi, Daphne. Holy cow, what an intro. Aren't we all looking for that? I mean, we might be teaching people how to find it, but I think all of us are still trying to find it ourselves too.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

You and I touched earlier a little bit about this, that it is the whole map. It is the whole story coming together. And what a beautiful age that you and I are at where we are recognizing that we are subject matter experts in our experience and sharing those experiences with people is our number one job right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

I think it's such a gift to be able to have the opportunity to do that type of thing because I think so many of us love, we know what we love, but how can we make that work for us in a career and in our homes and outside of our homes can be scary, difficult, and hard. And all of those things are still true, even when you're still doing them. So we're learning together, we're growing. And Daphne, you made a really great point earlier. Like we are in a world where we can either choose to be divided or we can choose to come together. And women supporting women to not fucking shrink is amazing. Sign me up, put me in, coach. Let's chat.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

This is what I keep, I keep having these wonderful experiences with fellow coaches, fellow women, intentional women who realize that we don't actually have to compete with each other anymore. It's this hierarchical sort of like masculine energy that keeps us actually disconnected and disempowered. Now, the fun part for you though, as a keynote speaker, as someone who works in this industry, you actually have conversations with men. And that's a different type. And I think that's why I love your brand so much because you are so direct and you are so intentional with your word choices.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

Thank you for that. I also love to say that I am a recovering people pleaser. And that is, I think, why I've created this business so that I can't be that, because our brains are so quick to go back to what we know or what is comfortable. And for me, it's a high school career of what do I need to shape shift to be so that people like me. And once I realized after a career in radio that, you know, people can either choose to like me or choose to not, but that's not my responsibility. I really then be was able to like dive in as to who I think I was made to be and to capitalize and teach others how to embody a sense of confidence, not necessarily in what they do, but how they show up daily. I love to think, and I often teach this, I am in competition with no one except who I was yesterday. I compete with who I was yesterday. And let's be honest, since we've already kind of mentioned like the paramenopause, menopause, that hormonal state, like some days competition is I have to wave the flag, right? Like I'm not going to be like I was yesterday, but that does not mean I am not as good today. I am different. And so getting to, I know this transitions weirdly into how did we talk about hormones and yet we were talking about men. There is a sense, for me, at least, there is a sense of removing the expectation that I place on myself as to whether or not men are going to like what I have to say because it's easier for me to care less. Women can be mean. Women can be really nice. I don't surround myself with women who are not uplifting individuals. It's very easy to look around a table and say if you do or do not belong here. Men, they won't even remember what you said two days ago, let alone two hours. And so it gives me a little bit more of a different place to just like let it go a little bit. And I found my spiciness, if you will, around leading group facilitations of men. And so putting yourself in uncomfortable situations sometimes lends the opportunity to learn about yourself and to then be able to grow and help lead other women to say, no, somebody might think you're spicy, but I actually love the energy that you're giving off. Let's hang out kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 5:08

Yeah. Oof, I think we can all relate to this. And this is this, this goes in many ways. This goes in friendship, this goes in community, this goes in career, as you know. Yeah, I have to tell you personally, I've always related better to men. Like I, like professionally, it was always easier. In fact, early in my career, I feel like I had more male energy, more male client-base, because I wasn't afraid to say something to them or I wasn't afraid to be misunderstood. I could be very direct with my language and things like that. I still to this day, which is really interesting because the podcast is really about empowering women to do this. I still struggle to this day with how to approach some of those female interactions and how to best relate because it is.

SPEAKER_01 6:01

Yeah. People will never forget how you make them feel. They won't. And so, how can I make you or whomever feel loved, cared for, and valued within five minutes? Has nothing to do with me. It has everything to do with asking questions to get you to talk about yourself. Yeah. And being a podcast guest on these episodes is I love it. And yet it's a challenge for me because I love to ask the questions to get you to feel really comfortable. And so I challenge myself in these roles to flip because otherwise I'm losing that ability, which I love so very much, to be able to put a concise and educated thought together with no prep. Why? Because the audience deserves us to prepare. And so this is a challenge for me because I want to be able to have an arsenal of things that I believe and live out daily and can then translate nicely as not only a working woman, but as a working mom. How many times do our kids put us on the spot and rather than take a beat or take a pause, we react and say something that we experienced our parents saying years ago that we're like, dang it, why did I do that? Well, it's because we don't have necessarily enough thoughts in our arsenal to be able to say, no, I want to take a pause. I want to say, ooh, can you help me understand why you chose to do this instead of that? Yeah. And those things, when we're coaching, we're coaching our kids, basically. And dare I say, we're coaching our husbands. Like, yeah, I, when you when you said something about more of the masculine energy, that's me too. In my mind, that's from a lifetime of sales, right? I've, if you were in sales, that's a more masculine, not only dominated field, but you have to be a little bit more direct. But I just had a conversation today with a one-on-one coaching client, is there's different sales techniques. I'm more relational. This person might be, dare I say, like a sleazy car salesman. And I'm not gonna be like that. And that's okay. But working through those conversations, realizing, especially with your partner, like, hey, it's okay for me to let my guard down with you, can be hard. And so that's just give credit to that.

SPEAKER_00 8:02

And it's we talked about we talked about this fairly briefly. Like, we come in young. We come in really young and we don't have any of these skills, whether it's for relationships or for parenting, or even let's let's say the world at large, we don't know where we fit into the mix, right? So it's hard not to take on personas and personalities and armor and that sort of thing. Is there something, is there a place that you start at when you take on a client with finding that authentic voice?

SPEAKER_01 8:30

For me personally, or for finding their helping them find their authentic voice?

SPEAKER_00 8:34

Well, I'd love to hear your story. Like I'm sure that you actually figured it out on your and you're like, oh, that's what it was. Like, where did your authentic voice develop?

SPEAKER_01 8:44

So I went to T or I went to school to be a TV news reporter. I was very selfish in nature. I loved to be the center of attention. I come from a background of beauty pageants, and yeah, see, she you get it. I just I love the art of being able to speak on stage, but or just speak in other people here, but I was doing it for the wrong reasons. I was doing it for a look at me mentality. When I graduated college and then I did not get a job in TV because I, you know how you like make a decision and then a week later you get the other decision that you really were wanting, and you're like, crap, too late. I'm not gonna renege. I should have reneged. But nonetheless, I got into radio. And long story short, we ended up getting the morning show slot after a longstanding morning show was upturned. And a I hate Bo and Denise Facebook group was created. My co-host was Bo, and I was 22, 23 at the time. And again, as a recovering people pleaser, that rocked me. And when ultimately, nothing that you could do or say, I didn't, this was when social media was rather, I mean, it was new. I couldn't control what people thought of me, literally, and then saw their thoughts of me, because of course we went and looked at every message that was posted, because why would you not? Gosh. Yes. And it was at that moment where I'm like, okay. And now don't get me wrong, there were lots of tears and conversations with my now husband, like, oh my gosh, nobody likes me. I should just quit, type of thing.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

And yet I look back at that moment and think, man, if I haven't decided if I hadn't decided to show up the next day and continue to be me, or dare I say, find the real me, I might not be here today.

SPEAKER_00 10:27

Wow. How did you manage that? At 22, 22, how did you manage that?

SPEAKER_01 10:32

Talk. I like I said, like it, I let it take advantage of me. And yet for every bad, there was a good, but I just didn't necessarily see the good. I had to convince myself that there were other people that believed in me that I couldn't. Because in that season of life, I didn't believe in me. Yeah. And so if we apply that to today, if there are days, and we all have them, where, oh man, I am not feeling like me. I don't say in the best, or I'm not, I don't label things as this is the power of our words. I don't label things as, oh, we're having a bad day. This sucks. Like I am experiencing bad things, maybe, but I will not let that ruin me. I have a like a review file. So from time to time, when people send kind notes or text or emails, I save them in, I have a folder at home where I save them or I save them, save them in a Word doc on my computer. And on those moments when I start to let other people's thoughts control the narrative in my mind, I go and look at this and remind myself in the moments that I can't remind myself that one person's opinion is going to completely be different than another person's opinion. And that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 11:41

What a great strategy. How is that translated, that really big dynamic moment? Because I don't know, at 22, that might have either crushed me or lit me on fire, which which probably is closer to my story too, is just when someone would always tell me, and this might be a middle child situation, but anytime someone told me that I was too small or I wouldn't make it or didn't make sense for me, or there was somebody better out there, it lit me in a way where I was like, oh, really? Watch me. That says a lot about your constitution as a person. You as well. Like you were brand new to the workforce. You're brand new to your own show. And someone started a page to take you down before you even got started.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

And yet, don't we all have people probably day to day that do that? And yet we might not even know about it. I mean, there are people who are definitely not cheering us on. And we can choose to focus on that, or we could choose to focus on the fact that I can cheer me on in a humble way. And I have a team of support who, whether that's at home or at work, that want to see me succeed. We are all, and that's one thing I learned is like we are always gonna have an I hate Bo and Denise Club. We just are. Yes. Yes. But what are you gonna do about it?

SPEAKER_00 12:57

You know, the other piece of that too is you said it's about the people that you surround yourself with and you allow those thoughts and those things to come into your orbit. I heard something really dynamic the other day. And it was, you know, it was really it was more geared towards like partnerships and relationships, but it was basically saying, this is your glass ceiling. The person that you marry, the circle that you create is your glass ceiling. So if you are in a space where people are not confident or are not cheering you on, like you said, or secretly sabotaging you with backhanded compliments or troublesome curiosity as opposed to, hey, I'm I'm with you no matter what, this you create your own glass ceiling with the people around you.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

I remember in, I don't want to say it was March of 2022, and I went to Florida to get certified under John Maxwell. Super great experience. I was sitting in the training room, and John Maxwell himself said, half of you in this room will end up divorced after you complete this program. And if you're unfamiliar, John Maxwell is someone who is has been married for a very long time, believes that everyone should be a forever learner, and is very faithful. So for him to say a statement like that, I remember vividly thinking, oh, that'll never be me. Daphne, I'm not joking. A year later, my husband and I were in marriage counseling because I had threatened divorce. I'll be the first to admit it. Because we all make mistakes, but his were my final straw. And how do we use that to then say, in a roundabout way, like, I don't want this to be our glass ceiling. Yeah. You being stagnant in personal growth and development is not only holding me back, it's holding us back because I see more for you too. People change. And my husband Jeremy is the example of that. He, I have my own flaws, don't get me wrong, but we worked on them together and he did as well. And so when you think about if you are in a room, whether that is your marriage or if you need to be looking into a mastermind type of setting, like your ceiling is where you set it. You can choose to set it differently. And those come with hard decisions and hard choices, but you can do it. And I feel as if I can genuinely say that because I was getting ready to get rid of my ceiling. Yeah. And then instead, that gave Jeremy an opportunity to choose that ceiling as his floor. Oh my, well, thank you for sharing that.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

That's incredibly vulnerable in the way that some people just never it's too it's too raw for them because you know, it's a reflection of did I make a mistake? Am I unworthy? Am I like there's a sort of thing or did yes, right? When you are willing to, like you said, be honest, say what it is, create a date, say by this date, if we're not in a place that is moving forward, I'm gonna move forward, says a lot about you. And it says a lot about how much you recognize your own value because I think a lot of us get trapped in that idea of what will people think of us if we're not in, you know, if we're not in that same relationship. What will people think of us? You know, where good, where do all of our support systems, where do all our comforts, where do all of our regular things? I don't want to start over. I can't tell you how many times I've come into a situation with a client or a family member or a friend. And that's always the thing is like, well, I just have to hold out a little longer, or you know, we've been together so long, or it it's it's no different than when we were growing up and you were dating somebody and the choice to get married, you probably remember this, is well, we've been together for so long. So either we're gonna get married or we're gonna break up. And you're like, if that is the choice, break the fuck up. And I mean that sincerely because that person, that choice, that family is how you how your life is gonna evolve. That is gonna be all of the resources that you have. And thank God it sounds like you have the same situation with your husband where he was willing to evolve.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

Yeah. But nobody teaches this to you when you're 25 or 35 and you find a partner and you're like, oh my gosh, wait, like you're not just this isn't going to be a Disney movie and things aren't going to just work out perfectly. How dare they?

SPEAKER_00 17:13

Yes. You know, it's it's very interesting you say that. Wait, we were 22, 24, 25, making lifelong decisions with limited skills. So after a divorce, one of the very big things for clients, friends, family along is this feeling of failure. And the reality is, like, I just like to talk statistics. I'm like, you know, 50% of the time it works. Like it was like, it's, it's, it's worse than a placebo, right? Like it's not the truth is is that it's it's meant to be that way. It takes two people to evolve over time. And it takes two people. So if you are a listener and you're in that sort of chasm of I'm becoming somebody else, my voice is coming out, the circle I have is really suppressing me and maybe causing some physical symptoms. This is a great opportunity to pause and reflect. Is this an opportunity for a hard conversation like you and I had with our with our partners? Or is this a value check? I think one of one of the hard things, and this is not so long ago in my house. One of the big conversations came to a peak of, I don't know if we have the same values anymore. And then it became it got easier because then it wasn't a character assassination, like you suck, you do this, you didn't put the dishes. Like it wasn't about that. It was when I sort of stopped cold in my tracks and I'm like, I'm hearing what you're saying. I think you're hearing what I'm saying, but it sounds like we don't have the same values anymore. And I think that took the took the responsibility of who was better at fighting or who was better at communicating and came right back to a conversation. Like, yeah, do we have the same values? Because you can't move forward with anybody, a work partnership, anything like that. If you don't have the same values, you're you're not ever gonna move forward.

SPEAKER_01 19:03

Two thoughts. Yeah. One, I don't believe in failure. If I believed in failure, I would not have started three businesses ever. Failures don't exist, especially if you learn something. So if you make a mistake and you learn something, label it as a lesson. It is not a failure. You learn something from it. And that is an example of the power of our words. If you tell yourself consistently over and over and over that you are a failure, then you will become a failure. You are manifesting failures. I am manifesting lessons. I might not make the best choices, but I am going to learn something from them and dare I say, do something with it and hopefully make money in it down the road.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

I love that. This is an investment. It's not a failure. It's an investment. It's a mistake. And you know, you and I very candidly talked about this earlier, where I feel really confident in my clients and my work and the things I've done for 20 years. But what kind of a weirdo has a second baby at 42 and is like, yeah, you know what? Let me turn this into a podcast, right? Like I love it. This is this is I this is never gonna be a mistake, no matter how successful, no matter how far this goes, no matter how long I'm gifted the opportunity to have this show, it will all be worth it. And it'll all be worth it because even if it was a mistake at the end of the day by anybody else's thoughts or beliefs, the fact that I can connect with wonderful people like you and have these open conversations about what's real and what's not performative. And let's not put on a show and let's just say it like it is. If it helps one person just sort of bridge that gap, I'm here for that.

SPEAKER_01 20:43

Authenticity is connection. When you are authentic, people connect to you. I lived a life of inauthenticity so much that I wanted to be whoever that person needed me to be. And I got there through years of therapy on my own, of realizing that that's just a little girl who didn't get the attention that she wanted at five years old and said, look at me, look at me. Whereas if what makes you you, whether that is doing a value exercise, whether that is doing, hey, name five things that you really like about yourself, five things that you want to show up as. How I love asking the question, how do you want to feel at the end of this week? And if that word is joy, then your body and mind is going to find things that week that bring you joy.

SPEAKER_02 21:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:27

And then at the end of the week, whether it's with myself or our kids or our family, I asked, hey, you wanted this what week to be joy filled. What did you find? Yeah. And that's sometimes foreign to people. Wait, life is simply as easy as saying, I want life to be happy this week. And then you find happiness. And yes, there are going to be hardships, but literally today, yeah, you could have listed several things that didn't go right, and you could list things that really went well. Which one are you going to choose to focus on?

SPEAKER_00 21:55

This is that red car theory, right? Like you never notice a red car until you're like, oh, I have a red. Car. So it is exactly that. I think I think that that's wow, what a what a profound way to look at that, too. Where it's just like, you're in the driver's seat. You were literally the main character. And I think we forget that too, because we have so many responsibilities we give us, and maybe not so bad, so good role models about this. But you are in the driver's seat. You are the main character of your life. And if you keep giving away that main character status, you are literally at the whim of the person driving in front of you at the grocery store. Right. So if we can be intentional this week and say to ourselves, I'm the main character. I want, like you said, if I want to feel joy at the end of this week, if you make that decision, the power is in your hands, right?

SPEAKER_01 22:43

And the best way to do this is by changing your word from I have to do this to I get to do this. Yes. Yes. I get to go to the grocery store. I get to go pick up the kids from sports camps. I get to take out the trash versus I have to go pick up the kids. I have to take out the trash. Like all of these things are do we, are we living a have to life or are we living a get to life? And that is how you bring more joy simply by switching out get to instead of saying half-to.

SPEAKER_00 23:14

I feel like I have to sit with that forever, ever. Or just like put it on one of those nice boards behind me. I get to, right? Is there something you're seeing or that you're experiencing right now with clients or yourself where you're like, wow, you know what? This is a tough time in the world. Is there something that you're doing or like a practice that you like to share?

SPEAKER_01 23:33

I have, I lead a mastermind on every other Wednesday where a group of women come around a table in person that are so powerful. Yes, Zoom is great, but in-person masterminds are so great. And she has just she's labeled July as a shit show. Like July is a pass. When you look at the month of July, it is meant for kids. Like it is meant for you to show up for your kids. And I remember last year, last summer, our kids were six and eight, and it was a lot. I didn't feel like I showed up in the best way. And I remember, so I always plan as much as I can in the moment. So last July, I was feeling the shit show that my friend and client says it to be. And in March, because I I have the gift of being able to be booked out very far in advance. And in March, I wrote, do not overschedule in June and July. And man, I had to go in and block off some days and some times to not schedule it. But I planned for July 2026 me in July of 2025. Because we have got to show ourselves what is important in the moments where we didn't make it a priority.

SPEAKER_00 24:42

Yes. We only get so many summers, we only get so many opportunities. And this is that get, get, get thing, right? We're gaining. Every time we say the word get, get means gain, right?

SPEAKER_02 24:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:53

One of the things I love to have conversations in the summer with clients, like you said, is like, this is not a time to like sacrifice yourself, sacrifice your health, sacrifice everything. If anything, it's time to let go of some of the things that are superficial and don't really matter. And I have to tell you, like, just the experience of this summer having Tuesdays with my five-year-old, having just the two of us, no baby, no husband, nothing. It's just, it has been so rewarding. And it also has caused me to reflect on what I want and what's joyful to me. Because as a mom, as a business person, as somebody who's constantly performing and in a way that is helping to move other people forward, you stop thinking about what do I actually like? What makes me happy? Like what makes me giggle, right? And there's no more honest person than a five-year-old. I just, yeah, there's not.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

I, this is really, this summer especially has really been a trying season for me in the best ways because I said I wanted to be slower. So now I am slower by choice. And I am fighting that internal drive of let's go, let's go, let's go. And so I always love to look at third quarter as watch out, right? Like I have some ideas. This is what I'm going to do. And then I go all the way up till Christmas. Like I don't coast, but then Christmas break, I am present for the kids. I love the thought, be where your feet are. And I'm not always where my feet are.

SPEAKER_00 26:23

I think it's really interesting that you prioritize the summer and you prioritize the Christmas season. And I think that's no matter what kind of business you're in, or no matter what kind of, you know, system you use, that is just practical. You know, whether you're a marathon or you have to have an off-season, no matter like, no matter what you're doing, I think when you organize with the intent to recover, to find creative space or whatever, whatever it is, make mistakes, whatever that may be, you get to become a novice. You get to become a rested, more, more connected person in that case. So I love that you said in September, you just run hard at it. Do you have like a ramp up or do you have something that you want to that you like share with people that you're like, this is how I get ready for September, or this is how I frame, or this is the mantra that I use?

SPEAKER_01 27:11

I always love to think I can do hard things and being more intentional with how I place my time in the summer. Like, I don't want to make anyone listening think that Daphne and I just hang out with our kids. Like I really press what was five days of work into four. And then the kids come with me on Thursdays. They come with me to meetings. They are in the background of Zoom calls. Like they, and that's intentional. I want them to see how they can build a business that fits around the lifestyle that they want. But when I am looking at August, I know that September to November, I have I do two online courses each year. I do one in the first quarter after our leadership conference. And then I do a second one September to November, where we are, okay, you've had this break for a little bit. Let's go. Let's be growers and doers. And then you're going to, I dare I say, enjoy the fruits of the labor that you are bestowing right now. So I was, I was told like, I'm the type of person who I'm going to create an idea and then I'm going to hand it off to somebody to do the dirty work, right? Like, here's the person that's going to go build this on the website. Here's the materials that need created, go do all of this, bring it back to me. And I'm like such a scheduler. I need this by this date. I need this by this date. And so I plan all of that six months in advance. And then I do the same thing every year. Yes. So then it's like getting back on a bike if you want the system for your life. Yeah. It's a system. We both we both know from Life Management System, right? She talks about that type of system, creating systems to be able to replicate and do that type of work. And so that's just an example as to what works for me. So that when August comes, I'm not doing all of the things I wish I was doing. It's already in place. I just got to push start.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

All right. So I think what we're telling our listeners today is that go ahead and take that break. Go ahead and make the mistakes, be silly, be ridiculous, be creative, and also be contemplative. Like, is this how you're going to move forward next week? I knew you were just saying you've got a mastermind leadership thing coming up. Can you tell the uh the group about this?

SPEAKER_01 29:14

It's called Growing on Purpose. And so and it is an online mastermind. It's 10 weeks. It starts after Labor Day and stops before Christmas, intentionally. We go through conversation, right? We learn about the laws of growth and these John Maxwell tactics and tools that each and every one of us can utilize. But the cool thing is about masterminds, and Daphne, I know you've been part of these before, so you can understand the gold that is a mastermind. Once you're part of a round of table of men and women who have the same desire to grow and be better, the content. Yeah. Yes, the content doesn't necessarily matter because the conversation and learning comes from one another. And that's what I love around around around a table is that round table discussion that only happens when we have a specific intent in mind of growing on purpose. And so we'll go through the in the 15 invaluable laws of growth from John Maxwell. That's the book that we will read. But oftentimes the conversation stems from one question off of a chapter and then we talk about it. I'm gifting your audience $50 off the price with the code word podcast50, um, a chance for you to grow with people who have the same intent in mind.

SPEAKER_00 30:27

Create your own glass ceiling or bust through your own. Thank you so much for being with us today. And thanks for moving this conversation about not fucking shrinking, right? Like we choose the people around us, we choose our mindset. If you are somebody who could benefit from this show, if you probably know somebody who's in this same position, please share and help move this conversation along for others too. Denise, thanks for being with us today.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

Daphne, you are an asset to so many people who listen to you, and I'm excited to learn from you as well. Thanks.