Exploring Vengeance and Redemption: For She Is Wrath by Emily Varga - Book Dragon Banter Book Club

Exploring Vengeance and Redemption: For She Is Wrath by Emily Varga - Book Dragon Banter Book Club

Welcome back to the Book Dragon Banter podcast! In this book club episode, we delve into 'For She Is Wrath' by Emily Varga, a Pakistani-inspired young adult dark fantasy. Join hosts Katherine Suzette, Sage Moreaux, and Zinzi Bree as we discuss the intricate details of the plot, the cultural influences, and the compelling characters. We explore the revenge-driven narrative, the rich setting, and the unique magic system. Tune in for thoughtful discussions, favorite quotes, and an analysis of the book's conclusion. 

Bookclub: For She is Wrath by Emily Varga: 

https://emilyvargabooks.com/books/for-she-is-wrath-2/

Linktr.ee: https://linktr.ee/bookdragonbanter 

TT: https://www.tiktok.com/@bookdragonbanterpod

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Sage: https://readorbleed.substack.com/

Katherine: https://www.bookdragoneditorial.com/

Upcoming Bookclub: The Sword of Kaigen by M.L. Wang

https://mlwangbooks.com/

00:00 Introduction and Podcast Welcome

00:36 Book Overview: For She is Wrath

01:17 Author Background: Emily Varga

04:08 Spoiler-Free Recommendations

05:27 Spoiler Alert: Deep Dive into the Plot

07:58 Character Analysis and Themes

24:19 Thoughts and Critiques

30:28 Magic and Corruption

32:46 Plot Twists and Romance

33:25 Transformation and Recognition

41:22 Revenge and Forgiveness

51:27 Final Thoughts and Next Book Club

Transcript

Zinzi Brookbree: 0:00

I think on Goodreads, one of the comments was, I wish it was two books, because there was so much packed into the ending. It could have been a second book, it could have been a duology,

Katherine Suzette: 0:14

Welcome back everybody to the Book Dragon Banter podcast. This is our book club episode on For She is Wrath by Emily Varga. And we are so excited to get into all the details. I'm Katherine Suzette.

Sage: 0:26

I'm Sage Moreaux

Zinzi Brookbree: 0:27

I'm Zinzi Bree.

Sage: 0:31

And that'll be nice and short.

Zinzi Brookbree: 0:34

We're so glad you're here. Book club is, uh, we are going around the globe picking different cultures and mythologies to focus on that inspire the fantasy of these books. and this particular one For She Is Wrath by Emily Varga, is Pakistani Inspired Fantasy.

Sage: 0:50

it's a young adult. Kind of dark fantasy, with a romance

Zinzi Brookbree: 0:53

oh, You would consider it dark. It's definitely YA and I wanna talk about that.

Sage: 1:00

I guess

Zinzi Brookbree: 1:01

Okay.

Sage: 1:02

it's young adult, It's a little bit dark

Katherine Suzette: 1:04

I,

Sage: 1:04

of the revenge. Like there's a

Zinzi Brookbree: 1:06

Plot. Okay.

Sage: 1:06

in the

Katherine Suzette: 1:07

Yeah.

Sage: 1:07

plot, so it's not dark in terms of like super gruesome. But for a YA fantasy, I think it trends a little on the darker side.

Zinzi Brookbree: 1:16

I would agree with that. Emily Varga, the author, is an internationally bestselling YA fantasy author for She Is Wrath. An instant indie bestseller, Goodreads Choice nominee and shortlisted for the Waterstone's Children's Book Prize. And also of The River She Became Duology. Now that book is not out yet. But I'm really excited about it. Having read this one and The River She Became, her comps are, she's like, if the Mummy meets the Cruel Prince, so you've got like Marian, from the Mummy, but she goes into the Fae realm searching for a relic and interacts with Fae that are, I'm assuming, morally gray and ambiguous like The Cruel Prince, if that's what she's writing. And I was like, sold. I'm in, I where our pre-orders Anyway, Emily Varga. She lived in England, Scotland, in Australia, and now calls Western Canada her home, where she lives with her family and her menagerie of pets when she's not writing, she works as a lawyer where she learned more about storytelling than she ever expected. this was something that I found really interesting that her day job, she's a family law lawyer, and has also done work with the Innocence Project, which is people who have been like, just like our main character, in, For She is Wrath, who have been falsely accused of a crime are, and are working for their freedom. This is an author who's entrenched in this storyline, in both reality and in fantasy. So that was really cool to learn about.

Sage: 2:38

Yeah. That's really cool that she took that from her, actual work life and turned it into this to explore that in a lighter way. I wonder if it was

Zinzi Brookbree: 2:46

cathartic.

Sage: 2:46

For her after dealing with people that like have gone through this, to then have a character who gets to, you know, come out the other side.

Zinzi Brookbree: 2:55

Yeah, I'm normally a cozy reader. Revenge plots are not my thing. But I did enjoy this. I especially loved, Emily Vargas writing voice. I thought that she had some really beautiful metaphors and I felt really entrenched in the setting, being Pakistani, the mentions of chai. I was looking up like the different kinds of swords so I could, you know, in my mind, you know, is this scimitar? Is it a curved blade? Is the straight blade the different, pieces of dress because, I'd say a shawl, but it's not a shawl, it's, they have, I'm gonna screw up how they're pronounced. Like the dupda. Nope. I listen to it as an audio book, so I should know these, but now I don't. I watch a lot of Bollywood movies and most of my memories of those have the top parts and then your bottom skirt. And it's a big wrap. But in the Pakistani, much more of them have the long shirt and then pants at the bottom. And that felt surprising to me and refreshing.'cause I feel like in a lot of fantasy books, like your lead girls are walking around like they never wear pants. They're always in dresses unless they're in fighting leathers to go ride a dragon. And then it's like they're in fighting leathers and sounds awful and gross as soon as you get sweaty versus like being in these more airy cotton. I totally just went off the rails already guys, so spoiler free recommendations.

Katherine Suzette: 4:12

In regards to For She Is Wrath highly recommend I am a revenge fantasy lover. I was not sure in the beginning how I would feel about it since the premise is that the main character, Dania. And her romantic interest started out as lovers and then became enemies, and that's where the book opens. And then they're supposed to become lovers again. I was not sure how I would feel about that. And in the end, I thought it was really well done. There were some great twists and turns in the plot. It was very, climax and like later in the book, heavy for all of those revelations, but it was still a beautiful setting. Beautiful voice from Emily Varga. Definitely recommend reading if you like a good revenge fantasy, and you're attracted to the enemies to lovers trope.

Zinzi Brookbree: 5:03

If you

Katherine Suzette: 5:04

Oh.

Zinzi Brookbree: 5:04

enjoy a revenge plot, if you enjoy enemies to Lovers, if you enjoy, a grounded fantasy that like really feels like it's culturally focused, like you're getting that influence, you're getting that taste, which all of this has. Yes, I enjoyed it. She has really setting based voice, as a writer and that is the thing I think I enjoyed the most about the story. All right. So from here on out, there will be spoilers. We are getting into all the deets. we will be whinging and complaining and complimenting, all of the favorite things that we. liked or the things that we disliked. So if you haven't read the book yet, now is the time to pause us and go read the book and then come back to get all the details.'Cause you know, spoilers, it's now, now just all spoilers.

Sage: 5:49

So many

Zinzi Brookbree: 5:49

Yes, all the spoilers, and content warning in general, our podcast is explicit. So just here's that caveat there was not spice in this book, it was very low spice. it was basically faded to black. It felt like pretty close, but there was definitely murder. Our main character Dania is, is a badass sword wielding I don't wanna say killing machine'cause she's not a killing machine, but she kills people and doesn't feel eh, there's one more, innocence that didn't have to die over this revenge thing, but they were here and they worked for the wrong person, so too bad.

Katherine Suzette: 6:23

Yeah.

Zinzi Brookbree: 6:24

If you sign up to be a guard of a corrupt emperor, and you die, you signed up for it.

Sage: 6:31

She did get over the deaths awfully quick. I thought she was, oh, that was too bad. I had to kill that person. And now let's move on.

Katherine Suzette: 6:38

Yeah, but they did have the scene where she first killed somebody. And it was in defense of the boy at the time that she loved. So I think she got over it pretty quickly. But her reason felt stronger than the, I don't know, guilt maybe.

Zinzi Brookbree: 6:56

I feel like I've been reading so many third person things lately that I actually was a little startled to start out with first person. But I did wanna comment on, the, and I'm gonna give me a second to bring it up here, because this is, again, I love a full circle use here, the opening lines. The very first line in the book is, today is a good day for Escape or something like that. I'm, oh,"the light was good for escape today." Okay. Page one. The light was good for escape today. And then the first time we go back into the before, she has, it's a similar line. There's like one word change where it's, it's a good day to something today. And then in the epilogue is, I think it's a good day to train today. So like the author chose, here's my starting line and here's these three points in history that I'm gonna anchor them to with the same line. Just shifted a little bit and I just, I noticed it and I loved it and I just wanted to comment on it. What did you ladies think of? So instead of doing a fully chronological, where we started with her meeting Mazen, the romantic love interest, at the very beginning of the book and starting with that, them falling in love and then getting betrayed and then going to prison and, and having time jumps. Did you like that we were getting fed the love story and the backstory intermittently throughout or would you have rather, would you have thought it being linear would've been better?

Sage: 8:31

I liked the format because it was different. I feel like, I've read Revenge Fantasy, but I don't think that I've read a lot of it. But I liked that we didn't go chronologically and that would feel too predictable, but it did take me away from, Dania right away. I felt like it took me a little bit of time to really get into, and I marked it. There was a point, and it was maybe like chapter six, it was when she went back for Nor, When they were breaking out and she was recaptured and Dania decided to go back for her. And that's when I was like, okay, now I can relate to this character.'cause before, I've never been in jail. I don't have a ton of personal, like, revenge stuff that I'm going for. So I didn't have like something to anchor me to her. And I was enjoying it and I was liking the kind of anger that she was feeling and everything. But until she had that moment of humanity, that's when I really started to feel an attachment to the main character. So maybe if it had started with her, like in her happy times, I would've attached a little quicker. But I didn't feel like we needed a lot of that. I thought the amount that was put in was pretty good.

Katherine Suzette: 9:38

Yeah, I did like the structure. I don't think it have been as well done in a different structure. I liked that the two timelines kind of met up with each other, and then that's where climactic moment revelations, decisions. Changed minds and all of that occurred, so that was really good. I agree with Sage though, that there was not a lot of connection in the beginning, but also I don't think it started out as revenge necessarily. Like I knew it was going to be revenge that she was reciting these names of the people that she really wanted to go after. So then it did start as her revenge fantasy, but it was more of an escape in the beginning. Like she just needed out. And she felt massively wronged. I do think that a lot of, especially like YA humans will relate to, simply because of the growing into an adult. Time of life there. We do feel wronged at that time of life by humans, siblings, parents, whatever the case may be. Dania

Zinzi Brookbree: 10:42

Little betrayals.

Katherine Suzette: 10:44

Yeah. So maybe it's not revenge necessarily, but that she's so wronged that she was even put in prison and she is, being punished for something that she didn't even do. Yes, it's extreme in Dania's example, like she's in prison and being tortured. But in essence I can also see how a person could connect with Dania a lot quicker, maybe perhaps, than we did.

Sage: 11:08

I also feel like, attachment to blaming, how do you pronounce the name Mazen.

Zinzi Brookbree: 11:15

Mazen.

Sage: 11:15

attachment to blaming Mazen. Early on I was like, Hmm, I wonder if this is an unreliable narrator. Not on purpose, but because she is seeing things through her own of anger and betrayal. But her attachment to blaming him helped get her through being in jail. And that I could relate to, like, I'm going through this struggle and I am gonna attach on this other thing to help get me through it. at the beginning it was unclear if she was going to go for that full revenge or if she would go find her father and maybe be able to, leave that behind her and be happy to be free and back with her dad. So I don't think she fully knew, like she kind of felt both ways. She wanted revenge and she also just wanted to see her dad again and be home and free. Got home and her dad was dead, all that was left was the revenge. And I thought that that also worked really well for me. Like with that, that hurting point, and the

Zinzi Brookbree: 12:13

Yeah.

Sage: 12:13

and that turning point was like, okay, now I'm fully on board with her. the whole revenge plot makes perfect sense that she would go for this. Whereas if she had found her dad and still wanted revenge, I would've not liked her character as much.

Zinzi Brookbree: 12:25

Hmm mm-hmm. So we needed Baba's, death to just be that, final stick on the pyre to

Katherine Suzette: 12:36

Yeah.

Zinzi Brookbree: 12:36

Flame up the revenge. I wanted to ask you guys, at what ages were these characters in your mind's eye?

Sage: 12:44

I would say like early twenties or late teens maybe. I kind of feel like in a fantasy setting, a lot of times young people up a little faster. There's often, you know, like in the days, even probably currently sometimes in places, but people get married a lot younger than the way I think of it. Or we're expected to go to war at a earlier age, get, start working at an earlier age than maybe in American society. So, they could have been like 19, 18, 19, but I kind of thought of them as early twenties.

Katherine Suzette: 13:20

Yeah, I think

Zinzi Brookbree: 13:20

Okay.

Katherine Suzette: 13:22

yeah, in my head it was almost the same. I guess I could be convinced that they were as young as 17, but. Upwards, I'd say up to about 22. I don't think that they were portrayed as any older than that, especially since the characters mazen and, Dania had not chosen marriage or anything like that at that point. So they were still at that transitional time where they were still under in the households of their. or adopted whatever, And still under their rule and not doing things, outside of their parents' acceptance.

Zinzi Brookbree: 14:01

I was reading the book the entire time going, are the ages ever gonna be stated? And they weren't. I was watching for it, for all three of our lead characters, Mazen, Dania and Nor. And I found that really interesting because reading it for myself, I also felt like this is new adult more than it was YA. Like I did not feel like I was reading, a 15, 16-year-old. The only time it might have been a 17-year-old would've been the falling in love with Mazen and the year before being in prison. And then prison would've been another year. And then escaping would've been,

Katherine Suzette: 14:36

Yeah.

Zinzi Brookbree: 14:37

Danny's journey might've been like 19 in my head to then give, Mazen being the second in command to the emperor, right? Like he starts having control of the city and that, to do that so young, I had to, I was like, Nope, I gotta mentally age him up a bit For that role. I also wanna just comment on there was no talk about marriage.

Katherine Suzette: 15:04

Mr.

Zinzi Brookbree: 15:04

That was not part of this. we're not officially told that the main characters are married in the end. There isn't a, subplot where the emperor is going, she's unworthy of you. You can't get married. Like, there's none of that. And I found that really refreshing, thinking about it. Now we're like, we just completely moved away from that being needed for this story at all.'cause it wasn't about that.

Sage: 15:30

I also noticed, similarly that she was allowed to be, when she was in disguise, she was allowed to be a woman living in a house with her servant. Without, and just going around and having meetings with men and dining at the palace and all of these things without like, I mean, yeah, her servant was there, but it never really seemed like she needed her servant as a chaperone. She was rich, she had a servant and obviously they were using it as a way to spy. and that's very different also because I think of more traditional society as women being needed to have an eye kept on them needing to protect their virtue all the

Zinzi Brookbree: 16:08

Mm-hmm.

Sage: 16:08

Empowered to make business decisions and all of these things. I really liked that as well. That was kind of like a different

Katherine Suzette: 16:16

Totally.

Sage: 16:17

in that society.

Katherine Suzette: 16:19

Yeah. And moreover,

Zinzi Brookbree: 16:19

Well,

Katherine Suzette: 16:20

they didn't seem to make any big deal out of Mazen sleeping in her room, even though the father was out in the same house and mazen had literally just snuck in. Or the fact that they decided to be sexually active together. And there was a little bit of conversation about birth control, but there wasn't a lot of processing of any other repercussions about their hearts becoming entwined and things like that. They just generally accepted that. that's fine with me in the context, but they didn't seem to have any societal rules around, sexual activity either, which is extremely abnormal.

Sage: 16:55

Yeah, I think this is why, one of the reasons I hadn't thought about Mazen as the, palace Guard or Head of the Guards, but, a lot of YA new adult books, when the characters are sexually active, they're often aged up over 18 or older. And I think that, that's like. I don't know if it's on purpose from the authors, but it just seems to be a trend that I've noticed. So I think that was one of the reasons I just kind of assumed she was a bit older too,'cause she had more of these like life experiences that I always read in slightly older characters.

Katherine Suzette: 17:27

Yeah. And they do talk about Mazen and Dania having known each other for multiple years. Dania trained him in Sword Craft and talked about in the, flashback arc about. When she met him as a boy, she saw him in a

Zinzi Brookbree: 17:43

Mm-hmm.

Katherine Suzette: 17:44

As he grew into a man, then she started to notice things differently. So yeah, I guess in my head if I had to choose a final age, I was picturing a roundabout 19 for her and maybe 20 to 22 for him. But you're right, that's an interesting point that they never actually called out the ages or even their, Like timelines society wise, like, oh, they're of the age to do this, and they're of the age to do No comment on any of that.

Zinzi Brookbree: 18:10

something else, when Dania first meets Mazen, because he is a representative of the Emperor that had suppressed her mother's people that had performed massacres, it was already an enemies to lover's story in their,

Katherine Suzette: 18:25

Oh yeah.

Zinzi Brookbree: 18:25

the past version. Therefore, you know, I'm not gonna work with you. And her father assigns her, training him in Swordsmanship. oh, speaking of the Swordsmanship, I so appreciate, oh my goodness. I was just like, I am so happy that this is a female badass character who from a young age has been training in swordsmanship, like logical reason that now this young woman can best full-grown men even coming out of prison where she is malnourished

Sage: 18:58

Agree.

Zinzi Brookbree: 18:59

in fight scenes because the training is there and it's not some ooh, you're the chosen one, you can train for six months, and now you're magically the equivalent of all these other trained their entire lives for this, I take such issue with that. Thing of just you're magically the equivalent of someone who spent a lifetime honing a craft.

Katherine Suzette: 19:21

Yeah,

Zinzi Brookbree: 19:21

For her to have been raised by a master swordsmith, to have the knowledge that she does with the different swords, I just, muwah!. Thank you.

Sage: 19:32

Yeah, I agree. And I think at the end of the book, she did get more magical. First she used magic just to change her appearance, right? But later she This magical badass, but I was really appreciating that her power was through swordsmanship, And physical prowess as opposed to I'm super powerful because of magic, which I love that. And that's totally a fine thing, but it was a refreshing element to have it be, and it's not like I haven't read other books where the female character is. Just good at swords and that's what makes her, powerful. But it was nice to Like a, an actual real life thing that could happen versus like a special magic thing. And like you were saying, not a chosen one at it. Just very good at it all along. Really liked

Zinzi Brookbree: 20:16

Yeah.

Sage: 20:16

she loved swords too. I really love swords and I love like the artistry that goes into them. So having like Handles

Katherine Suzette: 20:22

Yes.

Sage: 20:22

and the carvings, that was all like a really lovely extra bit of world building.

Katherine Suzette: 20:28

Agreed. I also

Zinzi Brookbree: 20:30

Yeah.

Katherine Suzette: 20:31

matched her outfits to her weapons, and it was totally subconscious. It had to be pointed out to her that she did that, and I was like, absolutely, yes. I wanna be you when I grow up.

Zinzi Brookbree: 20:43

Can we talk about, so something else I really loved with this is the friendship with Nor that, that relationship felt more important to me than the romantic relationship.

Katherine Suzette: 20:55

Yeah.

Zinzi Brookbree: 20:56

Because granted, you know, a lot of what's popular right now is a romantasy where it's, you know, the main characters are, I'll kill anybody, I'll kill everybody except for you. You and only you are the only thing that matters and everything else could be scorched earth. and I appreciated that this was not that, that this was, yes, at the time, mazen was her enemy. and Dania would probably scorch the earth for Mazen now at the end of the story. But, she goes to save, Nor at least twice, if not three times throughout the course of the story. The friendship that has developed between the two and Nor, saves her back also. It's not a one-sided friendship. they're both actively choosing at multiple points throughout the story to keep protecting and saving and sacrificing for each other. I don't feel like I see that as much that's usually only saved for the romantic interest or the, hero is doing the saving and it's not reciprocal where the person who's being saved is always the victim, but doesn't also save back. And that frustrates me.

Katherine Suzette: 22:03

I love to see the strong female relationships that don't have to be anything more than that. The anything more than a strong relationship, a support structure in which they genuinely want the best for each other and they wanna help each other succeed in whatever their goals are. So I also really appreciated that. Nor was the character going through everything with Dania as opposed to, it's a pretty common trope to stick the romantic interests together, An unwanted way. Like they start out enemies that way, like they're thrust back together after she's been in prison and things like that. And the author could have done that and it would have been a good book, but to have removed a lot of that romantic tension, the author was able to focus in and hone in on that inner world of Dania and the relationship of Dania and nor

Sage: 22:53

also really liked how they were complimentary to each other. They both wanted revenge on the same person of the emperor for the deaths of their fathers, among other things. but where Dania was really brutal with the, like, she was such a master swords person that Nor didn't even know how to hold a sword.

Zinzi Brookbree: 23:15

Yeah.

Sage: 23:15

A lot of times, nor was the one through, in the middle of the story, reminding her that there had to be more to life than just revenge. Like what happens after? And I really

Katherine Suzette: 23:25

Yeah.

Sage: 23:25

she brought that up. She was like the softer of the two of them. I felt like personality wise, Dania was very Like a sword, whereas nor was a softer person thinking more about like, okay, yes, I want revenge, but what happens next? I also want a life. I don't wanna burn myself up. I don't wanna become an emotional shell of myself. I want more than that. I love this friendship that I have, and I want that to blossom. And I really liked that she was the voice of reason that kept pulling Dania back from the edge. And that felt very real to me. I kind of felt like at towards the end, the friendship fell off a little bit and the story became much more about her relationship with Mazen and their like

Katherine Suzette: 24:03

Yeah. Yeah.

Sage: 24:05

I was like, oh, I felt like all of a sudden Nor kind of disappeared off the page and I wanted her to have a little bit more involvement she had some, but I wanted more of

Zinzi Brookbree: 24:15

Yeah.

Sage: 24:16

this relationship had been built up so strongly.

Katherine Suzette: 24:18

Yeah,

Zinzi Brookbree: 24:19

I wish it was two books, because there was so much packed into the ending. It could have been a second book, it could have been a duology,

Katherine Suzette: 24:25

Yeah.

Zinzi Brookbree: 24:26

I think they would've been shorter books to do that. But there was so much packed into the ending and into the twists and climax stuff I might have liked that better and felt like there was I don't wanna say a better conclusion'cause the conclusion is, is good, but like I would've felt the whole thing because the revenge is so built up to the degree that it is. And then Dania does end up pivoting and choosing forgiveness over revenge and choosing herself mostly instead of revenge. Which I think is great. That's absolutely do that. That's a good thing. But, with the way the epilogue wrapped up, what happens at the end? I didn't, with how much Dania cares about the people and what's happened to them because of what the emperor does. I would've liked to have seen, more of the politics delved into and resolved. So that the empire as a whole ends in a better place. Not just Dania and Mazens, arcs as people, like they get a good resolution. That's, that's for them. The sister, Mazen's sister that is a, that is a plot point.

Sage: 25:40

Mm-hmm.

Zinzi Brookbree: 25:42

the fact that at the end of the book, it's oh she's going into the war councils and talking politics. But earlier in the book, she's described as someone who gets taken advantage of at the market all the time.

Sage: 25:55

Yeah.

Zinzi Brookbree: 25:56

That was like one little slight disconnect of characterization that I was like, you either needed her to be a good negotiator in both instances so that ending is good and believable for her, or she needed a different resolution at the end of the story that is not contradictory. To something that we learned about her earlier on. Amman, I think is the sister's name. So

Sage: 26:18

Yeah, it was trying to tie the bow too tight at the end and it just,

Zinzi Brookbree: 26:21

yeah.

Sage: 26:22

agree.

Zinzi Brookbree: 26:22

Yep.

Sage: 26:23

I really wanted when she made the bargain with the djinn, I really wanted like more of that. I wanted that to become, more of an emotionally difficult journey. I felt like she easily kind of got herself outta that situation. And if it had been a duology or a longer book, it could have delved way more into the struggle. Like I felt like she made that bargain, I wanted another half of the book just about with that, Because there was so much potential there

Katherine Suzette: 26:54

Yeah.

Sage: 26:55

her own losing herself and like losing herself to the vengeance over trying to overcome it, there was a lot of great stuff in the middle when she was taking the seeds and the power was going through her and she felt like she was losing herself. And then it didn't come to as much fruition at the end as I wanted it to.'cause I really felt like there was so much like cool stuff that could have happened could have been her losing herself. And that affecting her relationship with Mazen and that affecting her relationship with Nor, I was happy with how it all came together and the twists and everything, but I just, I kind of wanted, like, I was enjoying it so much in the middle that I really wanted the end to like even go on for longer, and get more into that kind of stuff.

Katherine Suzette: 27:35

I didn't feel very connected to it because it was so rushed. In the end, Dania's final decision that, rectified all the wrongdoings in the end got her the revenge, but also saved herself felt, not difficult in that moment. And everything leading up to that, I do think it would've felt a little bit more satisfying to me as a reader had there been just a little bit. More of a struggle.

Zinzi Brookbree: 28:04

Did we need a, so I'm thinking of, looking at the fields of the seeds, like before they get burned, just having a paragraph of the temptation of what I could do with this, what good things can oh, but also these terrible things have been done with it. And just like seeing that written out, that struggle. and then ultimately choosing, okay, let's burn, the magic seeds from the djinn. And the emperor's power by him no longer having access to that. Also dumb of the emperor to have all of that in one place. PS

Katherine Suzette: 28:38

Yes.

Zinzi Brookbree: 28:39

just

Katherine Suzette: 28:40

thing that they, like Dania burnt up the fields and not just of Magic producing flower, whatever that was called, but the actual food producing fields for that town, that village that. And she did impact a lot of innocence. But she. negatively affected a lot of people, and I think that the author, leveraging that a little bit more to show the consequences of this revenge path for Dania And how far she went with it, would've felt more satisfying to me as well.

Sage: 29:15

I also felt, and it was addressed a few times, very minorly, but as she was seeking revenge, I kept being like, okay, so you. Let's say you kill the emperor, right? Then what? Who takes over? All along the whole thing has been that you hate the emperor because he is this despot, and how do you make sure that society becomes in a better place because of that? And I think Nor, again, was a little bit of the voice of reason, mentioning those kinds of things, but there was no plan. I didn't feel like ever they had a plan of like, we'll, overtake the emperor. What? And then just cut out like, see YA!

Katherine Suzette: 29:49

Yeah.

Zinzi Brookbree: 29:50

Basically.

Sage: 29:51

luck.

Katherine Suzette: 29:52

Yeah.

Sage: 29:53

that bothered me because I felt like that was irresponsible, but also like I could have used more of the politics and more of the like, intrigue around that.

Zinzi Brookbree: 30:01

I think that's the, that's the YA aness showing itself of just I got what I wanted. I'm outta here.

Sage: 30:08

yeah.

Zinzi Brookbree: 30:09

And not thinking ahead to those, like those next far reaching consequences. So like for a magic system, we really just had the djinn. And these magic seeds. And there was a statue of a dragon that was referenced in one of the homes of one of the people she's getting revenge on. And that's the only other time there's another magic or magical creature mentioned. It's very, very much focused just on, this one djinn and the bargain that he makes. But what did you guys think of the of how the magic was used in here? And, there was a message of, and I find this very unusual in fantasy of turning away from magic. That magic, there was a message that the magic corrupts that yes, it's power, but even if you try to do good with it, it'll go bad.

Katherine Suzette: 31:02

I think the overall message is that, the easy way out corrupts, and

Zinzi Brookbree: 31:08

Hmm.

Katherine Suzette: 31:08

Case, the easy way out was the djinn magic. As opposed to her using her sword skills or political intrigue like Mazen was doing. so.

Zinzi Brookbree: 31:17

Unsuccessfully.

Katherine Suzette: 31:19

yeah, I feel like there could have been more there too. Like he just floated through the story and he said he was doing things, but I didn't see any of that. And then also the king, he was just overall bad guy. And that's okay.

Zinzi Brookbree: 31:34

He was previously a farmer had somehow made the deal with the djinn and then took that power and ran with it.

Katherine Suzette: 31:41

But the part about like him wanting to avenge his village and the deaths and feed people and things like that,

Zinzi Brookbree: 31:46

Oh.

Katherine Suzette: 31:47

the djinn magic corrupted him because that was clearly not the case when Dania, went to prison or when she initiated her revenge but the djinn, The deal with Dania. Told her about how, whatever his name is, vain, er, whatever, had basically wanted the same stuff as Dania, but for like his village and his family that had been killed and things like that. I felt like that was a bit like tossed in at the end. In order to hopefully help Dania connect with the king and show again, like the potential of where she could go if she continued down this path.

Sage: 32:20

That bit of backstory also made me feel like it was the reason of being able to. give her, the excuse not to kill him by humanizing him a little bit at that point. And then she decided to, you know, she sucked the djinn magic from him, but then left him like she didn't do the killing blow. I think he did die, right? He burned up in the fields.

Zinzi Brookbree: 32:39

partway through this episode, Katherine had technical issues with her computer. Katherine has left the building. Hopefully she can come back in. The things we have left to talk about, I have a couple of quotes that I would like to talk about and I would like to talk about the, plot twists.

Sage: 32:55

I was, maybe this is part of plot twist, but I wanted to talk a little bit about the romance. Just touch on it briefly about him realizing when, like, knowing who she was, that's one of the plot twists early on.

Zinzi Brookbree: 33:08

Oh, that's not early on. That's shoved into like the last 20 minutes of the book, it feels like. But he realizes very early on who she is because she doesn't change her hands.

Sage: 33:20

right. So I went back and like refound that section where you hit, kissed her hand and stuff. So we could talk about that a little bit.

Zinzi Brookbree: 33:25

So I very much wanted to say as soon as she chose to not change her hands, of course, whatever thing you don't change is gonna be the giveaway. That's just obvious on one level, but on a secondary level. Any scars, and she talks about having the scars from the sword, which I was like, that is a dead giveaway. Like if you are not wearing gloves, and you have been intimately loved by this other person who's noticing those details about you. And there's awareness of the djinn magic and like that transformation is an option. Like it'd be one thing if that was like a secret thing that Nor invented, right? Where transformation was not known then that would've been easier to me to believe that, there would be a trick that could be sustained for longer versus oh, but this is a known ability that this magical element has.

Sage: 34:20

Was it mentioned? I don't remember it being mentioned that transformation was like a, anybody else had undergone it, like the, it did say that the emperor had healing magic and some other stuff. I can't remember what

Zinzi Brookbree: 34:34

"so nor says, transfiguration one of the more difficult powers of the Zorat but possible with the right blending, think through how you wanna change the way you look, focus on a feature. The magic will manipulate your body as if a djinn fire could melt the skin, like water softening clay." And I saved a different part, this is temporary. Once the Zora leaves your system, you'll start turning back to yourself. You must keep consuming Zorat in order to maintain the facade, and you shouldn't consume too much of this blend for long. Even if we had an unlimited supply of seeds. I've seen some assassins turn dark from having too much." So, like Nora has already, like, that's part of her experience as she's helped assassins change their appearance.

Sage: 35:13

right.

Zinzi Brookbree: 35:14

so it's not an unknown thing of the world. It's something that's for those who are, and I would assume Mazen being the emperor's second in command would be aware of that level of Zorat's ability.

Sage: 35:26

Yes.

Zinzi Brookbree: 35:27

so

Sage: 35:28

on, she notices when they reunite, she notices his hands and remembers the of his hands or the scars on his hands. And I was like, okay, but you, you're, you think you're cool. You don't need to wear gloves all the time. Like you expect that because you look differently. He's just not gonna recognize you, none of your mannerisms the way that you are speaking, even though your voice is different. That was

Zinzi Brookbree: 35:53

Well, and

Sage: 35:54

by her vengeance,

Zinzi Brookbree: 35:55

yeah,

Sage: 35:56

through.

Zinzi Brookbree: 35:56

Also her, at one point, she thinks about his laugh and I was like, if she laughs at any point, like that's a laugh as a person's dead giveaway, in my opinion. even if he hadn't recognized her at the point of seeing her hands and interacting with her hands, there is no way in heck where I would've found it believable that they would kiss and it not be recognized because I, I.

Sage: 36:24

Yep.

Zinzi Brookbree: 36:24

kiss somebody that you're familiar with, there's a rhythm that you get into. There's muscle memory that goes into it, and there's no way that, that's not recognizable,

Sage: 36:33

Yes. She kept mentioning his scent and I don't, maybe they mentioned that she had changed her scent also, but I don't remember that being called out. Her voice was called out the way she looked her But she was like smelling him and talking about the way that he smelled so frequently and how familiar that was to her. And I was like, yeah, pheromones

Zinzi Brookbree: 36:53

Yeah.

Sage: 36:53

thing. I would think that he would like kind of instinctually. Realize it, and then

Zinzi Brookbree: 36:59

Yeah.

Sage: 36:59

her hands and there you go. I did really like though that, talking about her transformation, there was never a direct comment on which of her two faces was more beautiful. were compared as being like softer and maybe like, I don't know if they used the word harder for her original appearance, but kind of more intense.

Zinzi Brookbree: 37:20

Yeah.

Sage: 37:21

but it was never like, I made myself so much more beautiful or, you know, More richly dressed and talked about the color of her hair being different. But it didn't feel, and I so appreciated that. I felt, I appreciated that it wasn't like a makeover kind of thing.

Zinzi Brookbree: 37:36

Agreed. Yeah. and I even, something that I appreciated is, we have Mazen Falls in love with her. Her original form, what she looks like, and that's still the thing that he's seeking later, is just who she is. And when she talks about herself, she's so, because of her swordsmanship, because of her training, like she's so grounded and centered in that and confident in that, there isn't a need to discuss beauty on the level like that. It was just never part of the conversation. Even because it wasn't necessary, because she was confident in who she is and that's what is attractive.

Sage: 38:20

Which I love that. Love with each other as people, not with, I mean, there was a little bit of like him being a scrawny boy and then later noticing his muscles. But you know, that was more of like an aging up and a becoming mature is how I read into it. and they were like, it was enemies to lovers, but it was like enemies to friends, to lovers. Into this like, I hate you, but you're so hot.

Zinzi Brookbree: 38:42

Yes.

Sage: 38:43

The books that I don't

Zinzi Brookbree: 38:44

See that a lot?

Sage: 38:46

Yeah. But when they become friends in the point and then the that friendship grows into love, I like, that's really lovely. I did feel like his, excuse, or it was basically felt like an excuse of why he let her go to jail. I was a little thin. I was like,

Zinzi Brookbree: 39:05

Mm-hmm.

Sage: 39:05

and I forgive you. I recognize that you were pretty powerless in that situation and you were trying to do your best to keep her from being killed in that moment. But, mm, I wanted a little bit more of him like apologizing or that he could have done a better job about it or tried to get her out to, like, did he not recognize that she was gonna be beaten jail and starved and gross?

Zinzi Brookbree: 39:29

Yeah.

Sage: 39:30

Like, he didn't try and get her out, you know? I guess he said he was trying Eh.

Zinzi Brookbree: 39:33

He said he had tried to, that he had had multiple attempts to try and rescue her, that the warden wouldn't give him any information about her. And something that, like why didn't Mazen go to her father and have them try and work together to get her out? That would've been a choice he could have made. And something also that isn't really well gone into is like, what is the depths of his political power? Did he have that's really glossed over both in the past and in the present. So what his ability to do things, how much money he had that he could have used for bribes.

Sage: 40:13

Mm-hmm.

Zinzi Brookbree: 40:14

could he have outright lied and said, oh, the emperor wants her in a different prison, blah, blah, blah, blah. because he is not, he's not shown as like a favored adopted son enough to just show up somewhere and be like, the emperor says this. I'm the voice of the emperor".

Sage: 40:32

Yeah. And his excuse, I felt like the sister was a little bit of a plot More than a fully realized character. Like his excuse that he needed to protect her, but she was able to go off to the market by herself, and

Zinzi Brookbree: 40:44

With guards.

Sage: 40:45

Okay. With guards. I just felt like it, like probably in the year he could have secreted his sister away in some way. I Forgave him, but with a reservation, and I think she

Zinzi Brookbree: 40:56

Yeah.

Sage: 40:57

Like it did feel like in the epilogue there was. Like they were working toward, they had been working towards it. Like, yeah, they, you know, they did Staying in the bedroom together, in that last bit. And, you know, like you said, fade to black, but, that's not like forgiveness, that's more like that physical reconnection. I did feel like the forgiveness wasn't gonna happen overnight, but that they would slowly kind of process their trauma together. I was a little mad at, I'm still mad at him.

Zinzi Brookbree: 41:22

So going into the death of this warlord, to me, what felt like the biggest plot twist?'cause like, you know, Mazen isn't actually gonna be at fault for her ultimately.'Cause it's a, the count of Monte Cristo. For them to get back together. He has to, his crime has to be forgivable.

Sage: 41:39

Right.

Zinzi Brookbree: 41:40

What did you think of it Turning out that the grandma had learned of Dania's plans with Mazen and had made a bargain with a djinn. And she is the cause of the warlord's death. The instigator of Dania getting framed and then. Also instigates Dania's father, going out to try and rescue her and getting killed in the process.

Sage: 42:07

Brutal. Okay, so first of all, brutal for your grandma to

Zinzi Brookbree: 42:10

yeah.

Sage: 42:11

The grandma was set up to be a very. Unlikeable character and not warm. Clearly didn't care very much about Dania early on. I did not at all see it coming. I really like plot twist to feel inevitable. And it didn't feel inevitable to me. It was unexpected for sure. And it was planted enough that the grandma was this cold woman who Clearly didn't like the dad was surprised to see Dania, didn't treat her that nicely, but I thought it was like, it felt a little thin that the grandma could all of that. I mean, yeah. It was the warlord who was responsible for killing her daughter, like her. The grandma's reasoning was sound. Mean, cold, kind Unhinged, but it logical, like it

Zinzi Brookbree: 42:59

unhinged Grandma Yep.

Sage: 43:00

shows logic, but I just felt like it was a little thin, ticked the boxes. I can't remember actually if the grandma knew that Dania was gonna be there and would end up getting

Zinzi Brookbree: 43:09

There's a line about she discovers, Dania's plans with Mazen, and so sets that up because she knew that the father would then try to rescue her

Sage: 43:19

right?

Zinzi Brookbree: 43:20

He was trying, she was trying to cause pain to her son-in-law as much as she was trying to get revenge for, the death of her daughter.

Sage: 43:28

I felt like it could have been explained in a more political sense with the, With the emperor.

Zinzi Brookbree: 43:34

happens.

Sage: 43:34

I didn't think the grandma needed to be brought into it, then I didn't feel like there was enough time to process what that meant. The stuff with her having the djinn magic through her and what that was doing to her, her vengeance and how, what that was doing to her, her reconciliation with Mazen and then the grandma thing on top of it made it like almost like, like you could have used that space to go into those other elements a little bit more. We were just

Zinzi Brookbree: 44:02

There we go.

Sage: 44:02

the grandma twist.

Katherine Suzette: 44:03

That was a good one actually.

Zinzi Brookbree: 44:05

So Sage said she didn't see it coming, but looking back, like saw that the personality type was in place. I feel like one part of it was Dania needed to see, oh, this is what I could become if I keep following down this path. This is a direct, this is my grandmother. I will be exactly like her if I only choose, revenge,

Katherine Suzette: 44:29

yeah.

Zinzi Brookbree: 44:30

also there was a lot of, this was just a revenge exploration. The, emperor was getting revenge. Dania was getting revenge, Nor was getting revenge. Mazen was getting revenge. Grandma was getting revenge. Like there was just, and they all were going about it in different ways, right? So there's part of, it's just, here's an exploration of all these different kinds of revenge. But they all ultimately were leading to the same place that Grandma ends up in. The emperor ends up right where it hollows you out and you become an empty shell. And it may eventually cost you your life, but it certainly costs you any, any happiness that you could have had.

Sage: 45:19

Yeah,'cause I was saying that I like the grandma was sort of unnecessary, but it is true that that is such a direct parallel for Dania about who she could become.

Zinzi Brookbree: 45:30

So I think this is my favorite quote from the book. I think Dania is actually the one that says this to Mazen about the emperor. And it is,"you may have given him forgiveness, but that doesn't mean you owe him kindness."

Sage: 45:47

Yeah.

Zinzi Brookbree: 45:48

And I feel like that's a really powerful thing to internalize.

Sage: 45:53

Yeah.

Zinzi Brookbree: 45:54

As a mom with kids, like there's a level of, I teach my kids okay, they did something wrong. You need to forgive them. But that doesn't mean you go and play with them more. If they hurt you, you can just be like, no, you hurt me. I accept your apology, but I'm done. We're not gonna play this game anymore. I'm moving on

Sage: 46:12

and the forgiveness is like for yourself. I mean, yes, you're forgiving that person, but You're forgiving it so that you don't carry that weight any longer. Right? You're

Zinzi Brookbree: 46:20

Yes.

Sage: 46:21

you're letting go of, of. That baggage and then you can just be done. there might be times in life where you do have to reengage with somebody because maybe it's like a coworker or a family member that you do end up seeing, you get to decide how much you wanna engage. Hopefully you get some say over that. But definitely

Zinzi Brookbree: 46:41

Yeah.

Sage: 46:42

is like the part for yourself and the amount that you choose to engage is more on them, right. And on their further actions. I agree. That was a really powerful quote.

Zinzi Brookbree: 46:51

Some of the other lines that I pulled out is"I came for revenge, but I'm leaving with something much more worthwhile, friendship." I thought that one was really beautiful. And this one I liked. You are building an empire. Just because it isn't made of kingdoms and djinn doesn't mean it isn't powerful."

Sage: 47:12

It's nice.

Katherine Suzette: 47:12

I like that. That speaks to a really solid theme or a couple of themes that the author really approached, in an unexpected way.

Sage: 47:23

I also

Zinzi Brookbree: 47:23

found very

Sage: 47:24

curious Dania versus Nor, how Dania had the capacity for this vengeance. She was angry. And Nor didn't. She still wanted revenge or she had that feeling of revenge, but it didn't burn through her in the same way. And I Was it her lover being part of the, situation that put her in jail doing that to her? Or was it part of her human nature? Just like her inborn personality that made her more quick to anger and she did have that she like would get angry real easily. So I liked that that was like the difference of how each person kind of dealt with that was really nicely handled also.

Katherine Suzette: 48:05

Yeah, she did a really good job with the relationships and everything.

Zinzi Brookbree: 48:09

we talked a bit about the world building and the culture and that was really well done. And, we talked about the magic. Then character. We did touch on character development with Dania's revenge arc at her choosing forgiveness at the end. did the book deliver on its premise being a retelling of the Count Monte Cristo being a revenge story? Do you guys feel like it delivered?

Sage: 48:33

I do feel like it delivered. I have to admit that I kind of wanted it not to be, to lovers. There was a part of me that wanted it to be. Less of a happy ending or less of a romantically happy ending. But halfway through I saw that it was clearly going in the direction.

Zinzi Brookbree: 48:50

Yeah,

Sage: 48:50

Wouldn't it be fun if it was this love that turned bad and that was what the story was and it wasn't? And that was fine. And I do love a good enemies to lovers, but it would've been interesting to have it be something different,

Zinzi Brookbree: 49:02

would've absolutely read the story where Dania and Nor were just like, we're friends that we're awesome and we're gonna ride off in the sunset together and we don't need you Mazen that would've been great too.

Katherine Suzette: 49:11

he still messed up. he messed up big time, he could have been a better character for me, a more worthwhile, let's take him back. I'm absolutely all for him, kind of character. I hear you guys.

Zinzi Brookbree: 49:25

Yeah, besides him recognizing her in her new transformed body, he did not have a redeeming action in the story, right?

Sage: 49:34

no.

Zinzi Brookbree: 49:34

he does have a, I screwed you over. I fully admitted I feel guilty, and it was awful. And I tried and I failed, and I'm sorry, and you don't have to take me back moment. But there wasn't a, he didn't get stabbed for her. Unlike, Nor put herself on the line for Dania more than Mazen did. So maybe that's, maybe that's why I'm such a,

Sage: 49:59

he knew who she was, but he didn't say, Hey, I know who you are and let's work this Make

Zinzi Brookbree: 50:03

Let's work together and take down the emperor.

Katherine Suzette: 50:06

Yeah,

Sage: 50:07

Right.

Katherine Suzette: 50:07

Like he, he just wanted to watch and see what she would do.

Sage: 50:09

Yeah.

Katherine Suzette: 50:10

I can see a lot of That, but that doesn't make him very redeeming to me.

Zinzi Brookbree: 50:14

I will say him being flat as a character does allow Dania to have more agency because he's not coming in and trying to swoop in and be the hero, right? Like, she still gets to be the hero of her story. She still gets to make, the choices it's not being taken out of her hands. So

Sage: 50:30

Yeah.

Zinzi Brookbree: 50:30

understand that. And there is also a, As a person who has lost a loved one, that emotional connection you have to people who knew them too because mazen knew her dad and that's, you can't replace that. So like I can understand that being an additional grounding element that ties them together as a couple.

Sage: 50:53

That's

Zinzi Brookbree: 50:54

a nice point. There are definitely things that Mazen could have done better, but there are also things that I understand on a. In an emotional level, why that connection was still so strong, and had such a hold on. Dania.

Sage: 51:05

Yeah, definitely not going in my list of book boyfriends though.

Zinzi Brookbree: 51:10

Dania will absolutely go on my list of badass lead girls though,'cause she's,

Katherine Suzette: 51:16

Wanna be

Zinzi Brookbree: 51:16

she did that.

Sage: 51:17

Mm-hmm.

Zinzi Brookbree: 51:18

Yeah.

Katherine Suzette: 51:18

don't want her story, but I'd love to have Her skills

Zinzi Brookbree: 51:21

sword skills, right?

Katherine Suzette: 51:22

Yeah.

Zinzi Brookbree: 51:23

Yeah.

Sage: 51:23

Yeah.

Zinzi Brookbree: 51:24

Her fire. okay, so book delivered on its premise. Do you guys feel like you got to talk about what you loved about the book? Because we were, we were critical, so let's.

Sage: 51:34

I loved a lot about it. I just wish the ending had been less rushed. And I think that was because I was enjoying it so much that I wanted to go more deep into it. I just also loved the, you mentioned it earlier, like the chai, the way the chai was described, the way the Described, the swords, like all of that world building was really lovely. And it was in the sense that it was like touched on, but not paragraphs and paragraphs on end about the world. But it was enough to really make me feel like I was there. So I did really enjoy that.

Katherine Suzette: 52:04

It was subtle and very atmospheric. I liked that style.

Sage: 52:08

I feel like you could do a whole nother book series, trilogy or whatever set in the same world with different characters, Like I would totally read that also with just having already experienced a bit of the world and the magic system, or like you said, it's not a system, but that magical element.

Zinzi Brookbree: 52:27

Yeah, absolutely. And I just, wanna give the caveat or put this thought in your guys' minds. We would've loved this to be two books like a Duology, because we felt like that end was so rushed. But this is her debut novel. Publishers might not have been willing to give a chance on, oh, we'll start you off with a duology. They might have just been, we'll make this one deal with you. You'll sign one book and see how you do with it. And now she has, she's got a duology coming out, so I'm excited now reading this and going like, she obviously has the material and the ideas to put into a duology or more, so Awesome that, that's, what she has next is a duology and we're gonna get that, the opportunity for a more fleshed out, two book story the next time. Because it did really feel like all of the early stuff in the book that was so well paced and plotted to build and build the revenge and the desires and the other things she was trying to achieve. And just that, that rushing in the end might just have been a, Hey, you only get so many words and you gotta fit it here and you only get this debut book. Do the best that you can.

Katherine Suzette: 53:32

Yeah, unfortunately, in the publishing world, it really is. You get a debut novel instead of a debut series, generally speaking. And also she would've been, blocked into writing for genre and writing for what the market trends were for the publishing house. So I kind of wonder if maybe Mazen was never supposed to get back with her in the end, in Emily's original plans, but in order to write to market, she had to create a resolution and send them off together at the very end too.

Sage: 54:04

Interesting.

Katherine Suzette: 54:04

things we'll probably never know unless we get to interview Emily Varga, which would be awesome. Writing to market and writing to genre for a publisher can be really limiting,

Zinzi Brookbree: 54:16

she was trying to keep to the count of Monte Cristo because in the Count of Monte Cristo, right? Like, he gets back together with the woman that he loves and gets his son back that he didn't know existed. Some of those correlating decisions in plot line might have just been trying to keep that because that, that is a marketing point for the book, right? To say that it's, if you had just been like, oh, here's a fantasy revenge story, or here's a fantasy gender swapped, Count of Monte Cristo, what that gives you in terms of what the story's gonna be about, if you're gonna like it. this is revenge that sort of has some heist elements to it. It has a prison escape, and there's a love story. It tells you so much about what you're getting into.

Sage: 55:02

Mm.

Zinzi Brookbree: 55:03

That it might have just been a choice that I have to stick to the guardrails of that story somewhat, to deliver on the promise of what is being marketed.

Katherine Suzette: 55:13

that's a very good point. True, true. to be fair, she did do a good job.

Sage: 55:19

yeah.

Katherine Suzette: 55:19

Just because satisfaction complaints about the ending doesn't, or some of the arcs doesn't mean that she didn't do an excellent job

Zinzi Brookbree: 55:26

And we're not unsatisfied in that we didn't like it, we're unsatisfied in that we did like it and we wanted more.

Katherine Suzette: 55:31

Yeah.

Zinzi Brookbree: 55:32

if you're gonna be unsatisfied is because you want more, like that's the good kind of unsatisfied

Sage: 55:36

Definitely.

Zinzi Brookbree: 55:37

Onto our, next month's book club, next month's book club is the Sword of Kaigen. I think it's Kaigen, it could be Kaigen. the sort of Kaigen by M.L. Wang. It is an epic fantasy standalone, and Japanese is the influence for that one. I'm very excited i've had it sitting in my TBR like very high in my TBR for a really long time and my husband just listened to the audio book of it last week and he was like, I wanna talk to you about it, but I can't yet'cause I haven't read it and he's gotta hold off.

Sage: 56:09

I'm really excited for it. Yeah,

Zinzi Brookbree: 56:11

mm-hmm.

Sage: 56:11

you can find us on our various social media platforms, which are linked below, rate and review us and tell your friends. We would love to have you continue to listen and share the word.

Zinzi Brookbree: 56:22

Thank you for listening to this deep dive into, For She Is Wrath by Emily Varga. thank you for listening. Thank you for tuning in. Thank you for being here with us. And hopefully we'll see you in the next episode.

Sage: 56:32

Bye.

Katherine Suzette: 56:32

guys.

Zinzi Brookbree: 56:40

do we still be like, need to be like, Hey, I'm Zzi, that's Sage, that's Katherine. I'm pointing at random places. Um. We interrupt this podcast to bring you tech issues.

Katherine Suzette: 56:52

my camera, but I don't think I can plug in my mic

Sage: 56:55

I believe Mercury is retrograde. I've had about six things break in the last week, so...

Zinzi Brookbree: 57:01

bloop bloop. Yeah. Um, bloop, bloop, bloop, bloop. I had something that I was gonna add and it just like,

Sage: 57:11

And then did I have anything else? you brought up the chai because that was really getting me, I love chai and I just thought the Spices and stuff was so lovely. and the clothing too.'Cause I thought it was an Indian thing. And they weren't wearing sari's and I was like, oh, this must be Pakistani. I kind of realized it in the way that the cha is made is different.'cause I traveled to India, but I ever went to Pakistan. But it was like, this is not how I remember chai being made. And now I really wanna try it. I don't know if there's

Zinzi Brookbree: 57:38

Yep.

Sage: 57:39

There probably is some, I have to see if I could find somewhere with Pakistani chai