Is It Fresh? - Chapters 11-14 This Kingdom Will Not Kill Me Read-Along

This Kingdom Will Not Kill Me Read-Along (Ch. 11–14) 

Book Dragon Banter hosts Zinzi Bree, Sage, and Katherine continue their read-along mini season for This Kingdom Will Not Kill Me by Ilona Andrews, covering chapters 11 through 14 with a spoiler-free discussion. The hosts discuss Maggie’s rapidly shifting attachments, found-family dynamics, heist-story structure, and romance possibilities among Reynald, Solentine, and the Duke, plus theories about the “author” and upcoming maps.

Clover Bonus Scene from the Author's blog: https://ilona-andrews.com/is-she-a-lady/ 

Podcast links:

Book Dragon Banter Substack - https://bookdragonbanter.substack.com/

Linktr.ee: https://linktr.ee/bookdragonbanter 

TT: https://www.tiktok.com/@bookdragonbanterpod

Insta: https://www.instagram.com/bookdragonbanter/

BDB Fable Fantasy Focused Book Club: https://fable.co/club/diverse-fantasy-with-zinzi-bree-271215645134?referralID=f9KdWh3wtd

Other links:

Book Dragon Ink Online Writing Retreats: https://www.bookdragoneditorial.com/ink-retreats

Write With Me, Zinzi Bree - Substack: https://writewithmezinzibree.substack.com/

Sage: https://readorbleed.substack.com/

Book Dragon Ink: https://www.bookdragoneditorial.com/

Our Summer Read-Along: This Kingdom Will Not Kill Me (Bookshop.org affiliate link): 

https://bookshop.org/p/books/this-kingdom-will-not-kill-me-ilona-andrews/f544c8f1dba95f55?ean=9781250377265&next=t&aid=124342&listref=book-dragon-book-club-reads

00:00 Welcome and Podcast Intro

00:36 Read Along Rules and Spoilers

00:46 Sage Is Under the Weather

01:00 Reading Ahead and Note Taking

03:13 Solentine Knows Her Name

04:08 Sponsor and Retreat Plug

04:29 Chapter 11 Summary

05:39 Chapter 12 Summary

07:56 Chapter 13 Summary

10:25 Chapter 14 Summary

12:22 Key Moment Shifting Feelings

14:55 Relationships and Fast Bonding

18:56 Romance Possibilities and Love Interests

24:22 Reynald Protectiveness and Age Gap

26:25 Gender Roles and Romance Expectations

28:42 Reynald Romance Doubts

30:16 Garden Stranger Theories

30:29 Who Is the Author

32:40 Heist Structure Explained

34:44 Found Family and Loneliness

37:47 Soap Making Side Hustle

43:00 Skills to Survive Rellas

46:02 Stelka Fish Mystery

47:44 Favorite Moments Spotlight

50:39 Predictions and Wrap Up

Transcript

Zinzi Brookbree 0:03

welcome. We see the assassins have failed. We're Book Dragon Banter, a podcast where three aspiring authors talk all things books. We're fantasy-focused but not exclusive. Join Sage, Katherine, and me, I'm Zinzi Bree, as we read This Kingdom Will Not Kill Me by Ilona Andrews, all for the love of story. is a read-along mini season where we'll be covering a section of chapters each episode. Read or reread along with us. We are so glad you're here. Now's a great time to hit the subscribe button so you don't miss our next episode. spoilers. Uh, we will be keeping spoilers out of the read-along episodes, as we're saving them for our mini season wrap-up pajama party.

Katherine Suzette 0:43

We are an explicit podcast so that we can give our honest and unfiltered opinions.

Zinzi Brookbree 0:46

extra note here, Sage is under the weather, and her voice is pretty rough, Audio-wise, it will be more Katherine and I conversing on any of our stuff that is scripted so that she can save her voice for, the fun details. That said, Katherine and Sage, have you been good? Have you been reading ahead? Have you only gotten to you're supposed to read? today we are covering chapters 11 to the end of 14

Katherine Suzette 1:12

I mean, I was kind of good. I, I read ahead just a little bit to be prepared for what's next

Zinzi Brookbree 1:23

Uh-huh. That's not what you're supposed to be doing.

Sage Moreaux 1:25

I have not read ahead, but it was really, really hard. And what I did instead, you can, if you're watching the video, you can see I have my book with all my little tags of, like, notes and stuff. So what I did, and I haven't finished yet, is I went back and started rereading from the beginning and taking notes of, like, names of places, names of people, various details. And I, like, I realized I needed a much more comprehensive list after starting because there are so many little details woven in. Every time Maggie talks about the book, there's so much detail. So I'm kind of like, okay, I, I almost want, like, you know, the eight families page, and then I want, like, a structure of the realm page. Oh my gosh, I think maybe I need that. Yeah.

Zinzi Brookbree 2:18

Yeah

Katherine Suzette 2:18

It's like you're building a whole book Bible. I mean, I do love those directories, but I don't usually do them unless I'm getting paid, so. Sounds fun, though.

Sage Moreaux 2:29

I have been known to get super obsessive over books and like be online scouring dark holes of the internet to find like theories and however, one of the last times I did that was Game of Thrones, which was so long ago, and I, the books never got finished, and I was so mad that I kind

Zinzi Brookbree 2:48

Yeah

Sage Moreaux 2:49

cut back on that, on that reading books that are not... This is a testament to, wanting to do this with Zinzi because normally I would not read a book that all of them are not out yet. I try really hard not to

Katherine Suzette 3:01

We trust Zinzi.

Zinzi Brookbree 3:03

Thank you. I, I will do my best not to... I mean, I don't have control over what the authors do, you know, I'm, I'm sincerely hoping. They've got a good track record, so I'm not worried. So we talked last episode, I made a comment and I wanted some clarification. I, I asked, I was like, "We saw that Maggie gave her name to Reynald," and that was the only person that we saw her on page give her name to, right? And I was like, "So how did Solentine come in through the window knowing her name?" So extra-

Katherine Suzette 3:32

shows how much he pays attention, how m- how much he knows about what happens in Kair Toren, where all his people are and all the things that are going on. I think that that's character-building moment, like, for us as the audience to be like, oh, he clearly knows, knows all. Everything that happens, he must know about it

Zinzi Brookbree 3:51

and, you know, for a character like Solentine, where as a spymaster, right, information is power, and here is this mysterious person who he does not know where her allegiances lie, and so that absolutely is triggering all of his danger sense, and he's gotta get the information. He needs to be in the know. am gonna go ahead and get into our chapter summaries, sponsored by Book Dragon Ink. Which is our company, where we host monthly, themed writing retreats online, and those have workshops, access to our book coaches, Sage and Katherine, writing sprints, and community. You can check out our upcoming retreats, with the link in our show notes. chapter 11. morning, Maggie secretly watches Reynald practice his swordsmanship. She's mesmerized because, well, it's hot, and the books forgot to tell her. Uh, is Maggie into hot dads, or is it the controlled danger that Reynald represents? Clover makes delicious-sounding brunch, and we learn through conversation that Clover is indeed a lady's maid. Score for Sage. Wow, does that job require a lot more skills than just cleaning and doing hair. one more reason to hate the Hreban family, after how they treated Clover. They gave Clover her new name, and she will make them come to regret it. we learn the different reasons Lady Hreban and Sauven hate the Everard family, and that Selva, the Everard's land, is the Shield of Relles, occupying one-fifth of the country's land. In Maggie's opinion, Sauven is unhinged and Everard is a monster, and they should stay away from both. Like that's going to happen. Reynald brings up needing more guards, and Maggie lets him think he's convincing her with his choice of the Magnar family. however, Maggie already knows about them, and oh, Reynald is pissed when Maggie tells him that the Head of the Shears dropped by and he's just learning about it now. Oops.

Katherine Suzette 5:39

chapter 12, here we meet Gort and Gort 2.0 and 2.1, otherwise called Will and Lute who all look like football defenders in height and weight. Gort, the father, is 6'3" and the sons are a few inches taller. Maggie is 5'3". I myself am 5'4" Well, actually, I'm like closer to 5'5". Anyways, point is, my dad is 6'5" and that height difference is, it feels like a lot sometimes. It's only a foot. My mother is a few inches shorter than me, and apparently, so also is Gort's wife. that height difference, just so you can see it, it's like a head or two difference. Love it. on we go. Gort keeps looking to Reynald for his yeses and his nos and to, to get the indication of what he should or should not do, which indicates that Reynald may actually be the person in charge of Gort and family. This is a problem for Maggie, but it is not one that is addressed yet. She just takes note of it. Gort looks how he's supposed to look, and Reynald doesn't. I have a theory about this, so let's check in with me again later. But is this an author bias? Did the author write it this way just so that Reynald could look a little younger and more sprightly and be a little bit more malleable for plot reasons? I don't know. Any inconsistency in book knowledge is a threat to all of their safety. After a conversation about paying people right, the Magnars, Gort and fam, are hired. But Maggie can't let this discrepancy go and pushes Reynald on his history until he offers to bring his papers and proof of identity, 'cause he just looks so different than what she expected. It all comes down to trust and apparently taxes, because Maggie doesn't have papers, but better get some by the time the seventh chapter comes knocking. So

Zinzi Brookbree 7:29

Seventh Chamber

Katherine Suzette 7:30

legitimate... Seventh what?

Zinzi Brookbree 7:33

Chamber. No one expects the Spanish Inquisition. You said seventh chapter, it's seventh chamber Nice. Okay, and taxes because Maggie doesn't have papers, but better get some by the time the Seventh Chamber comes a-knocking. How will she legitimize herself? Maybe it's time for some modern knowledge and invent something that Reyes needs. What could that be? Oh gosh, chapter 13 is so long, guys. There's so many, so much happens. All right, chapter 13, day, Maggie is internally working out her salt plans and her business venture. Also, why and how is there a fish on her chest when she wakes up? Gross. We meet Shana, a badass, mercenary yesterday to harmless cook today. And we learn that there's more than one kind of horse in this world. Also, everyone else left Maggie behind to run errands. How dare they? Maggie's not a child. She just lacks basic world knowledge that makes her stand out like a sore thumb. By the way, I'd love to try Fire Pit tea, and I hope some merch deal gets made where that gets made for the fans. I would love that.

Katherine Suzette 8:39

Yes

Zinzi Brookbree 8:41

on her side with, you guessed it, more secret book knowledge. later everyone returns, and Clover supplies Maggie with a new green dress to make her look noble enough to be annoying. As Reynald says, "Maggie looks good," in so this is a internal note for me that I was like, "Oh, nice, that gives me, if she looks good in green, that makes it easier to picture kind of, like, her coloring and how she looks. Also, compliments from the blade master. will Maggie do? With disguises on, Reynald and Maggie take a walk at the harbor on a scouting mission and to buy some salt, which, wow, is that expensive. But is it fresh? After the salt purchase, which is somehow very important for Maggie to prove her secret knowledge, Reynald and Maggie head back out to the harbor to look for the Iolenta family ships at the pier. In the process, Reynald offers his arm, and Maggie takes it and actually thinks about what it means in this world to hold it longer than necessary. Does she want to signal romantic interest? Is Reynald? The readers of her world have been missing out with crushes on Solentine and Arvel Oh, wait. Who is Arvel? When they could have been crushing on Reynald. Time to let go, Maggie. Reynald asks why she's so pensive, and we learn about the old dog campaign of 80 mercenaries that might die for nothing if Maggie doesn't do something. how much would it change? Shares a story from his past Maggie doesn't know about, a knight who saved him even when everyone else was against it. It was the right thing to do. they have a heist to plan. It's not a small thing to switch out a salt barrel under the nose of the Keepers of Iron. Um, just so you guys know, there is a bonus scene that takes place from Clover's point of view, confiding in, Shana about Maggie. So here is the place to read it after chapter 13. links are in the show notes.

Katherine Suzette 10:25

Chapter 14. In this chapter, Maggie and Clover experiment with making soap, which we learned earlier in the book is a commodity that is sorely needed and sucks, but is super expensive. So Maggie thinks it's time for a new recipe, and scented soaps enter the scene. Maggie and Clover bond during the process of making said soap, and Maggie learns that the reason Clover didn't take her shopping, was because she didn't look the part. even if Clover had told her that she didn't look the part, Maggie would have insisted on going. So clever Clover, she didn't tell her, and she protected Maggie's identity. meanwhile, Maggie has been apparently insulting Clover's cleaning skills doing some of the cleaning herself. Maggie thinks she's just being a part of the team, part of the family, and Clover feels like that is an invasion on her role as lady's maid and all of the training and life experience she's had in that role. So it's time for Maggie to stay in her lane. the end of the experimentation, they settle on batch number 17. All hail Maggie, the soap queen of Kair Toren. is currently surrounded All hail. Maggie is now the soap queen of Kair Toren. She is settling into her role, she is surrounded by good people. She's considering her old life and her own family less, she's starting to doubt that she would even choose to leave Kair Toren if given the option right now. in order to build on some of that trust that she's lacking with Reynald, she plans for a heist with all of her people. And Will gets a job at the warehouse crew, loading and unloading the boats. The plan also involves flammable gorfish blubber and Kaiden throwing something. But we don't know anything else at this time. Note to self, no spoilers. Whatever the case, This is an exercise in trust for the team, So this better be worth it.

Zinzi Brookbree 12:22

let's move into our key moments, one of them being shifting feelings. This is a note that I kept for myself, but for anyone else keeping track, Maggie has been in the book world since Plantar, which in my brain translates kind of to March, 3rd. That's about nine days so far. In everyday life, that's not a lot of time, but have you guys ever gone to, like, a summer camp or on a vacation and, like, everything me- feels more intense and important because you're away, and nothing from home really matters because you're away, right?

Katherine Suzette 12:53

Mm-hmm.

Zinzi Brookbree 12:53

so I kind of wonder if that's part of the shift for Maggie, in that she's, she's getting more entrenched with, being in Rellas, being with these other people, and has a little bit of that summer camp mentality, where just, like, everything that's happening to her now is more important and is e- eclipsing the importance of things at home

Sage Moreaux 13:19

It sounded like her home life didn't have anything like super... She didn't have the kind of job where people were relying on her s- very heavily. She's not a defense attorney in the middle of a big case or, like, something along these lines where she'd be fretting about what was happening at home. She had a pretty, like, low-key lifestyle and, you know, she, she misses her family, but also,

Zinzi Brookbree 13:45

take over her DoorDash deliveries

Sage Moreaux 13:47

yeah, there's not that much riding on her being absent, so maybe a little easier to ingr- you know, and whereas here she's turned into this, like, position of power almost, or starting to

Zinzi Brookbree 13:59

She is, she's certainly building the, foundations for power for herself, So, so far in the book, we haven't gotten... Like, we don't know her brother's name. We know she has a brother. We haven't gotten her parents' names, right? Those details have been held away. I think it's a choice on the author's part to be like, they may matter to her, but she's not naming them, so they don't have to matter to us maybe at all, or maybe yet. that's something to, like, mirror the distance that she's feeling, then we are also distant from those characters and not getting more about them, except in little character snippets.

Sage Moreaux 14:36

There are so many names, and like a character calls their parents Mom and Dad usually, right?

Katherine Suzette 14:41

Yeah

Sage Moreaux 14:42

in some books, we don't always learn a character's parent's name because, especially like a young adult novel or something like that, they just call them by their, you know And well, you might mention it once or twice, but it's not like a big deal.

Zinzi Brookbree 14:54

Mm-hmm. What do you guys think about, Maggie only been here nine days at this point in the story, right? with all of the things that have happened, she spent three days, being practically naked and starving on the street, It's only been, I think she says it's been a couple more, like three days, since she's met Reynald at this point, and their relationship is, continuing to strengthen. even though there is until this confrontation, right, over the, um, of, uh, is there this discrepancy, show me your papers, and how that whole scene goes. you know, like, do you guys feel like these kind of deeper bonds can be formed with someone that quickly?

Katherine Suzette 15:46

Yeah, especially when you're in the trenches with somebody, so to speak.

Zinzi Brookbree 15:49

the shared mission

Katherine Suzette 15:50

like you were mentioning a moment ago, like that, that super presence when you're really present in a moment, I do think that that tends to build a rapport with another human, especially if they are also sharing that level of commitment to being in that moment with you. And that's really hard to do in, in real life that we experience on the day-to-day. So

Sage Moreaux 16:12

It feels like a pretty common...

Katherine Suzette 16:14

connection

Sage Moreaux 16:15

It's a pretty common book trope, to have characters bond more quickly because of the intensity of their situation

Zinzi Brookbree 16:23

I do like that Maggie, like, calls it out for herself, or checks herself, and goes like, "It's only been three days," right? Like, she's aware of it that short of a time, and is examining her own, shifting feelings around she wouldn't wanna leave if she had the opportunity, and, I've just met these people, and yet I feel closer to them than really anyone else besides her family that she'd had in her life

Sage Moreaux 16:49

Yeah

Katherine Suzette 16:49

there was a moment where she's talking about her, her former friend and her DoorDashing?

Zinzi Brookbree 16:54

Yes, that happens in this.

Katherine Suzette 16:56

Yeah, I thought that it was really relevant, like the contrast in relationship that she'd had before versus the relationship that she's building now, wherein that friend, tried to help in a way that that friend thought was super helpful, and Maggie did not feel like that was helpful at all. What she could have used, what would have felt more helpful to her was presence and teamwork and, and just, like she said, "Just go to a coffee, just talk to me, just be present and be a part of my life. Not try to fix it or change it according to what you think is better for me, essentially." And I related really really hard to that, But I thought that was a great thing to have in here, in contrast to the relationship she's building with Clover and Kaiden and Reynald. Reynald

Zinzi Brookbree 17:45

Oh.

Katherine Suzette 17:45

probably,

Zinzi Brookbree 17:46

that's part of what has her confront Clover a little bit, she's going, "Okay, Clover, if there's something that I don't know, call me out on it or inform me on it. So, she's even, bringing up memories of past relationships and letting that inform her now when she's having the conversations with Clover to get clarity, to have a, a better rela-

Katherine Suzette 18:08

Mm-hmm.

Zinzi Brookbree 18:12

a, "Well, I'm gonna show her," right? Like, there's, I feel like there's a lot of, romantasy that have a main character who instead of just having the conversation and like, "Hey, help me do better," is just "Well, you didn't think I was good enough. Screw you. I'm gonna show you." And those tend to be characters that I like less and identify with less than someone who's just willing to have a conversation of you know, "Hey, what's up about this? How do we fix it? What do we do to move forward?" That's one of the things that I like so much about This Kingdom Will Not Kill Me is how, is managed between a, the majority of the characters

Sage Moreaux 18:56

I was thinking, on that note, I was thinking about the romance piece because there is some flirting in this, in this chunk of chapters. There's some, like, thinking on Maggie's part, as you mentioned in the recap, of like what does it mean to have physical relations with somebody, or not physical relations, but like where are the boundaries? It's a different society, right? and I was thinking about like, and especially when that one character came up that everybody was crushing on that I hadn't... Arvel. I was like, "Ooh, I don't, I don't think he's come up before. I don't remember any information about this." So,

Zinzi Brookbree 19:33

read ahead, I'm resisting so hard quoting the line, you know what it is, about Arval. Okay, continue, Sage

Sage Moreaux 19:40

Okay. So, you know, I haven't read the whole book. I don't know what is coming. I don't know if Reynald is the ro- main romantic character in Maggie's life, or does she have more than one? But it, I was thinking about it, and I was like, they are building this very nice bond where they are having open communication with one another. They are learning to trust one another, and it would be interesting if all of a sudden she is hanging out with some other man in the story and has, a passionate fling with this guy or some kind of, intense romantic connection, which often happens in romantasy, right? There's, an instant connection, and then all of a sudden you're in a bedroom scene. this is, is like a slow burn and a slow build, but it isn't actually even super obvious, I don't think. maybe he's gonna be the one that is part of the, like, romance piece, but we still have the rest of this book and two more books. So it could be that we just haven't really met that person yet, or it could be that it was the sleepless duke who we did meet very early on, right? And, for those of you who have read ahead, maybe you have a better understanding of it than I do. But just the, the way that the relationship between her and Reynald is forming. Now, it could just form into a lovely partnership, but I like that there is this relationship building that's happening

Zinzi Brookbree 21:06

navigate it?

Sage Moreaux 21:07

And it feels real

Katherine Suzette 21:08

have laid... It does, it feels really real. the authors have laid, three potentials in my mind. We have the duke, which is obviously, like, leveraging some of that shadow daddy kind of behavior that we expect in a lot of modern romantasy, where we have, like, the older, super powerful guy who's a total asshole to everybody, but then, like, is the hero for the girl, the protector, and all of that. But we don't, we haven't figured all of that out yet.

Zinzi Brookbree 21:34

Yeah

Katherine Suzette 21:35

have Saltine, Soltine, the Sorrentine,

Zinzi Brookbree 21:41

Solintyne Saltine. Oh my God.

Katherine Suzette 21:44

Solentine. we have Solentine, who is, like, a very thief-like underground, manager, and he's supposed to be, I think, in my head, he's a very attractive, witty character,

Zinzi Brookbree 21:56

is

Katherine Suzette 21:57

pops into her window, which is, it, supposed to be a relatively impenetrable, house, and he just, into the window in the middle of the night, "Here, I'm paying you." And, and she's like, "Oh, he way underpaid me, therefore we are not going, I'm not giving him information again." Then turns out he, like, way overpaid her because, you know, she said, "Pay me the value, pay me what you value for a life," or whatever,

Zinzi Brookbree 22:18

Yeah

Katherine Suzette 22:18

"Pay me what you think is right," essentially, for saving that life. or giving you the information so that you could save the life. then Reynald, who is the super protective guy, who's actually, like, real- much younger in appearance. He has some life experience. He has some tragic backstory that a person can love and, you know, like, take care of him and be, be the safe spot for a man like that. And he's also the super protective guy. He... So that this could go any which way. But also, a, a, note, Reynald was so jealous of when, when Soltine in

Zinzi Brookbree 22:53

Fallentine

Katherine Suzette 22:54

just Solentine, it wasn't just that Solentine had climbed in the window and, like, given Maggie money. It was, a- and, like, had got past him, and Maggie hadn't told him. But it was also in part, I think, because Maggie hadn't told him. She was like, "Oh, yeah, he was here last night, no big deal." And he's like, "What? Excuse me? I'm supposed to

Zinzi Brookbree 23:14

There was

Katherine Suzette 23:14

and

Zinzi Brookbree 23:15

a freaking assassin in your room last night and you didn't tell me?

Sage Moreaux 23:19

Mm-mm.

Katherine Suzette 23:20

And she's like, "No big

Zinzi Brookbree 23:21

I excuse you.

Katherine Suzette 23:22

Look."

Zinzi Brookbree 23:23

Yeah

Katherine Suzette 23:24

and then I think he was jealous too. Like, why wouldn't she tell me? Is there something between them? You know, kind of thing.

Zinzi Brookbree 23:30

so that sounds like for you, Katherine, at this point, you think he's already developing some feelings based on his behavior, Reynald to Maggie?

Katherine Suzette 23:42

At least protectiveness. I think that, going into this trust-building exercise where we've left off in these chapters is going to us a lot of what the potential is for this relationship. this is where the trust exercises happen. This is where the team starts to become a team. is also where the characters tend to settle into the team-like spirit and whatever lifestyle they develop in however long this phase lasts before things change and big things start happening again. So whatever happens in this span of time, I think will tell us a lot about how they're going to end up

Zinzi Brookbree 24:21

Okay. Sage, do you have an- anything to add on the, developing feelings between, potential developing feelings between Reynald and Maggie?

Sage Moreaux 24:31

Yeah, a couple. One, I don't love age gap romance. he's like 12 years older than her. It's not awful. They're both full adults. She, what, she's 26? And he doesn't look his age

Zinzi Brookbree 24:45

26 and he's thir- he says he's 38.

Katherine Suzette 24:50

My worry is that he's going to develop trust and then to be even more protective, and Maggie's gonna really like it, but then it'll feel a little bit overprotective

Zinzi Brookbree 25:01

Hmm

Katherine Suzette 25:02

I mean, obviously I don't know this, but I kinda think that like that could really get in the way of them, and maybe they start to fall in love, and then, you know, come, like, quarter three or the low part of the book or whatever, there's a trust broken. maybe Reynald does something to protect her, which was her original fear, is that he has just enough information to fuck things up, and he does that 'cause he thinks he's, he's making the better and protective choice, and then it, it screws her over, screws them over. It, it in a lot of... gets in the way of a lot of things and kind of breaks the potential for their relationship,

Zinzi Brookbree 25:37

It's interesting with romantasy now it's hard to tell, a romance developing too soon? Is it a slow burn? before now, it felt like was easier to predict, like, the length of development. Should we expect a third-act breakup or, you know, like, what the pacing would be for a relationship. And now we've got characters, not in this book, but in other books, where, you know, they're having sex with each other before halfway through the book, sometimes earlier, depending,

Sage Moreaux 26:06

Mm-hmm.

Zinzi Brookbree 26:09

it's interesting with this one, trying to make predictions or theories, now that kind of the, the standard length story romance story structure has been thrown out the window

Sage Moreaux 26:24

I would, yeah, 100%. And I would also say that it's a little different because Maggie is not from this world, so she's not necessarily You know, if she did live in this world, maybe she would be a woman who was looking to get married, right? I'm assuming that there is a little bit of a, just based on the information we've gotten thus far. I've been thinking a lot about, like, male and female status in, in, especially based on what Clover said about her rape, and just that it's mostly men that seem to be in power. Yes, there's some women in power, for sure, that is talked about. there was the, is it Galianne who was the, proprietress at the cloud, the cloud hotel?

Zinzi Brookbree 27:12

at the Garden?

Sage Moreaux 27:14

and like, like, so it's definitely not, like, a full patriarchy, right? But it does feel somewhat medieval in terms of maybe men having a bit more power than women, women maybe being more in the position of wife and homemaker. although we do have Gort's wife, who is totally also a, a mercenary, right? So there's definitely a mix of it, is my point, and we haven't gotten s- super clarity on wh- what women's roles are like. But if sh- if Maggie was a lady in this world, presumably at this point she would be married, right? So and she's not... Is she planning on staying? She really only got the story goal of staying here until she completes her plans, like in this section, I feel like. She was trying to survive. She was trying to find a way to have a roof over her head, all of those, basic needs

Zinzi Brookbree 28:11

Maslow's

Sage Moreaux 28:12

what-

Zinzi Brookbree 28:13

yeah

Sage Moreaux 28:13

yeah, in the Maslow's hierarchy, right? And now she can start pursuing her further story goal of trying to change things for the better. But is she really looking for romance? Is she in the position to have a dalliance, right? Like,

Zinzi Brookbree 28:28

Mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux 28:29

she was h- here in America she could just, like, do some dating, flirt, whatever, have some... I mean,

Zinzi Brookbree 28:36

Yeah.

Sage Moreaux 28:37

in, in, romantasy a lot of times...

Zinzi Brookbree 28:40

different.

Sage Moreaux 28:41

Right.

Zinzi Brookbree 28:41

Mm-hmm

Sage Moreaux 28:42

she's definitely, crushing on Reynald a little bit, I would say. there's a lots of commentary on hi- the color of his eyes shifting and, the way that he looks and stuff. So she definitely, I think, is crushing on him, and he's this strong, protective kind of character, right, that often comes off as attractive, depending on the woman. But is she really looking to, is he looking to get in a relationship with his wife, only dead months like not years, and is she looking to get in a relationship, or is she mostly just focused on Her plan and she has a,

Zinzi Brookbree 29:16

Is this a

Sage Moreaux 29:17

an American perspective of relationship, right?

Katherine Suzette 29:20

Yeah.

Sage Moreaux 29:21

And it's like you said, is there gonna be sex in the, in, in these books? Like, or is the status qu- some romantasy sex is, like, more open, and some it's more, of a, like, deeper commitment type of thing, right?

Katherine Suzette 29:38

I am afraid that, that Reynald is gonna be the red herring as far as romances go. He's gonna be the misleading actor where people fall in love with the safety he provides, and then it turns out that because he's so obsessed on his ultimate goal of protecting and saving, and, like, his version of things going correctly, and maybe it has more to do with his son and he wants to use her to find the son. Whatever the case may be, I think that, I think it's gonna get in the way of them actually having, like, a genuine romance. But he has a potential. He's one of the three potentials I think, that, that I've identified

Zinzi Brookbree 30:11

There's

Sage Moreaux 30:11

This actually brings

Zinzi Brookbree 30:12

but that's all I can say about that

Katherine Suzette 30:14

Is that

Sage Moreaux 30:15

there was also

Katherine Suzette 30:15

Okay,

Sage Moreaux 30:16

was the unnamed man at the garden that she met who was, like, mysterious, who I still think is the author or the crown prince. Those were my two theories.

Zinzi Brookbree 30:24

Mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux 30:25

but I wanted to point out, this is on page 122. it says that the book started with Reynald sitting on Striver, his horse, riding into Kair Toren, expecting a happy reunion, and instead finding out his wife had died and his son had been kidnapped. And may- so all along as I'm reading I'm like, "What is this book series that she read, like, really like?"

Zinzi Brookbree 30:47

Yeah

Sage Moreaux 30:48

I always relate it sort of to, like, Game of Thrones level of lots of different character perspectives and lots of gruesome, awful things happening, and unfinished, right? So, but I thought it was a really, that was a really interesting thing that got brought up was that Reynald was, like, the starting character, and you're in y- his head a lot. Whereas in this book, we are only in Maggie's head, so we have no idea, and it's definitely like she is an unreliable narrator, 'cause she doesn't live in this world. All she knows of it is from her books. She thinks she knows lots of stuff, but there's already been inconsistencies, right? And we don't have Reynald's point of view of what he's actually thinking, and I just found it really interesting that he was the first, like, the opening of the books that she read, that it was him. 'cause often, not always, but often the person you start the book with is, like, the main character, right? Or one of the key characters w- in a multi-POV. And it just brings me back to my theory that maybe the son, Reynald's son, who can see what's happening at any moment, or at, at that moment anywhere, could be the author

Zinzi Brookbree 32:02

Hmm

Sage Moreaux 32:03

Because he would be able to kn- how was, does the author know all these things and be in people's heads and all of this, right? So that's my, that's my, I don't know that I think I'm right, but that's my current theory about that one

Zinzi Brookbree 32:16

Good theory

Katherine Suzette 32:18

Yeah, that was a good theory

Zinzi Brookbree 32:19

Uh,

Sage Moreaux 32:20

I also have no idea if we learn that in this book. There's two more, right? And I cannot wait to, for book two to come out or about to be released and reread this and then read that, or maybe even reread all three of them afterwards and pick up on all the clues. I think there must be so many scattered in for later books in the series

Zinzi Brookbree 32:40

100%. shifting into another key moment, I wanted to talk about the structure of heists in stories, right? when we are told a plan beforehand, if you get to see that in a movie or you get to read about it in a book, that ultimately means that that plan is going to fail, and we get to know about it as the reader so we can anticipate it, and then okay, this is where it has diverged, and then our characters get to be smart when they come up with a s- solution in spite of the plan going to shit, right? versus here as they are planning this heist, we aren't told what the exact plan is. We're given pieces of it that we'll get to recognize, as it happens later. did you recognize that structure happening here in the, in the, story of like, okay, I'm given this piece and I'm given this piece, and then the other stuff is held back?

Katherine Suzette 33:37

was a need-to-know basis, and we didn't need to know until it was already happening or it was over

Zinzi Brookbree 33:41

Mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux 33:43

Yeah, my understanding is that if you know the plan, it won't work, but if the plan is withheld, that means it's going to be successful.

Zinzi Brookbree 33:50

Mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux 33:51

But Maggie likes to hold a lot of things back from the reader.

Zinzi Brookbree 33:54

She

Sage Moreaux 33:55

She gives, like her little talking about the She's been talking a lot about these mercenaries,

Zinzi Brookbree 34:01

Mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux 34:03

slowly in these couple of chapters, a little bit more has dribbled out about it as she's talked with Reynald, but we don't know the whole picture, and it kind of drives me crazy

Zinzi Brookbree 34:15

I appreciate it so much from the writer's perspective in that, those are all of these extra hooks where not only is Maggie hooking the other characters by driveling "I know this, and I have this secret knowledge, and I know this," right? Like, she's hooking the characters around her, but then also we as readers are getting hooked on, here's a, here's a tidbit here, and here's a tidbit there, and what is she gonna know next, and what little inside secret are we gonna get to learn about this new character that showed up on the page? I appreciate also, I feel like I've read a lot of romantasy or fantasy novels where we don't get friendships with the bodyguard, the cook, the lady's maid,

Sage Moreaux 34:54

Mm-hmm.

Zinzi Brookbree 34:54

the- right? Like, and- or even really get to know, like, what those roles entail, that they're not just, you know, background characters. They're, you know, for Clover being the lady's maid, the knowledge that she has to have, it's not just, oh, she's cleaning things all the time, or she's helping Maggie with her hair. Like, yes, she is doing those, but also, she's going to market and haggling. Like, she knows the prices of things. She knows what's a good deal, what's not a good deal. She's balancing the books. She's going, "Okay, if we're paying these people this amount, that means we have this much left over." Like, all of those things, and more, those are just some of the skills that she has and that she was trained in. Like, to know that about that character, really enriches her and enriches my reading experience getting to know that about her

Katherine Suzette 35:41

Yeah

Sage Moreaux 35:41

It is a nice, I often feel like epic fantasy, there might be friendships, but they are often serving the plot, and I, I guess these do too in a certain way. the more Maggie has these relationships formed, the more committed she's gonna be to keeping those people safe, and the more, personal the stakes become for her. But I feel like a lotta times, you know, you befriend a maid, and then the maid gets slaughtered in front of you or whatever, and it becomes like a...

Zinzi Brookbree 36:15

Mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux 36:16

But I honestly feel like a big piece of these relationships is that it's part of what Maggie has been lacking in her life, is this con- this sense of connection. I actually think when she was talking about that moment with her friend who she was delivering groceries to and they, reconnected, it, there's been a lot of talk in the news lately about loneliness epidemic, both for men and for women, and I think that that's a huge thing going on in our society, and I really appreciated that, like, that's basically what Maggie is dealing with here in her, you know, human earth life, is that she is disconnected. She doesn't have community. She doesn't have these deep bonds that are vital for a happy life, and they always say, like, one of the keys to happiness is a really strong social network, and not a social network like social media, but like real individual connection with other humans that you see in person. And

Zinzi Brookbree 37:12

village

Sage Moreaux 37:14

yeah, and so she's finding that, and I really love that piece of it. It'll be interesting to see when she at some point she'll probably have interaction with other, people in the upper classes or whatever, and it'll be interesting how, to see how that all goes down

Zinzi Brookbree 37:29

See how that's navigated? I would like to move on to what I'm calling the theme of the episode. I have no idea if I'm, if we're actually gonna end up keeping the key moment and theme f- framework of this. it may just devolve into we're just, we're just talking about all the different points that came up in this that we wanna talk about, right? but one of them was there's basically a whole chapter on soap making, right? That, Maggie's going, "The soap here sucks, I know how to fix it. I have this hobby, okay, this is, this is something that I can do that's gonna make us money" because that's your next, Maslow's need hierarchy, right? Having money that, sustains you, and selling secrets is only gonna be so useful. They need income in another way. So, business from modern knowledge. D- did you guys expect that it was gonna be soap? Even though soap was mentioned a bunch early on, and how, you know, that it was a sliver of it, or that it was expensive even in the garden, right? Like- Right that's, the garden is supposed to be, serving the higher echelons of, nobility and things like that, and even their soap she's commenting on, 'cause it kinda sucks. It's still not that great.

Sage Moreaux 38:43

I didn't think soap until it mentioned lye, and then I was like, "Oh, that's a key soap ingredient." Um, I thought maybe like candles 'cause of the bee.

Zinzi Brookbree 38:54

Yeah

Sage Moreaux 38:54

so I was like maybe so- honey or candles, but then I was like, boy, that's a lot

Zinzi Brookbree 38:58

honey because of the bee at first too, and then she got all these other ingredients, and I was like, wait, this is not... That's not how you make a, the hi- like, the hive, you know, structure, homemade beehives, right? and I have no idea how old that is as a practice, being, keeping bees, so that may be something that already exists, 'cause we've seen, you know, they're eating honey, even at the breakfast, I think it gets mentioned, or in the tea, drinking tea, right? So, like, honey was already something that was, available to the world

Katherine Suzette 39:30

Nice. I definitely... I was also, like Sage, I thought candles just by the talk, by, by the way things were being mentioned. I was like, "Oh, she's gonna do something kind of frou-frou-y," in essence. And turns out it's one of those, like, super necessary small-time things that I was really glad to see in a fantasy novel like this, when the character goes out to, to make money. I appreciate that it was, a necessity, but also that Clover talked about, the rival soaps out there,

Zinzi Brookbree 40:01

yeah

Katherine Suzette 40:01

I was like, "That's, that's cute. I like that." And now we kinda know where we stand here, with, with soap being truly relevant

Zinzi Brookbree 40:09

she does mention, during The Thieves of the North or the, the other original book, right? In the two books, one of the things that's, that is listed that takes place is a plague, and so her choosing to make a bunch of soap, is already proactively preparing for when a plague might hit, and soap is gonna be needed that much more to protect people

Sage Moreaux 40:34

Yeah, I hadn't thought of that

Zinzi Brookbree 40:36

fact that toothbrush, like the thing that I was like, how are toothbrushes not being like the immediate invention once we learn that toothbrushes don't exist? I was like, toothbrushes and toothpaste, come on. that's... If clearly there's a problem with teeth in the world, if, Maggie's teeth get her into, Dereg's compound to begin with, let's, let's,

Sage Moreaux 40:57

Yes.

Zinzi Brookbree 40:58

you know... she'll

Sage Moreaux 40:59

Let's do

Zinzi Brookbree 41:00

whole, like, hygiene empire where she'll go, she'll do soap and toothpaste and toothbrushes, and Maggie, Queen of, of Clean, right?

Sage Moreaux 41:10

She is, like, people have soap and to convince people to use toothbrushes if they don't already have it is like a bigger lift. So, but I would also feel like if you're thinking of getting romantic with someone, you might wanna introduce them to the concept

Zinzi Brookbree 41:27

Yeah, for sure

Sage Moreaux 41:29

I, one of my favorite scenes thus far has been when she goes with Reynald out to the salt place and buys the salt barrel.

Zinzi Brookbree 41:35

Oh, yeah.

Sage Moreaux 41:36

was, like, the little flirting, and then she acted so dumb, and it was really funny. and he teased her about it. I'm really loving his sense of humor.

Katherine Suzette 41:43

Yeah

Sage Moreaux 41:44

at that point I was thinking that there's probably smuggling, because the way that she described the barrels made me think some salt, you could hide something in there and then fill it with salt, and that felt like something about the barrel of salt. But I also felt like there was this interesting moment where she was doing the ma- like somebody on the first of all, love that she's talking about the fan forums that the obsessive readers were on, and how they had, figured out the units of measurement and, like, how it converted to weight. She was figuring out the weight of how heavy the salt was, and sh-

Zinzi Brookbree 42:28

yep

Sage Moreaux 42:29

yeah, super heavy, and then she says, "I had no idea why I remembered that so precisely. The numbers just popped right into my head." And I wondered if that is, a little hint at something about the whole what is she doing in this world? I feel like there's moments like that that happen regularly, and I'm not sure if it's just, if it's, a clue or if it's just a fake clue or red herring, so.

Katherine Suzette 42:54

It does seem like Maggie's just kind of been imbued with these skills that she's gonna need in this life.

Zinzi Brookbree 43:00

is there a skill, if you got dropped into Kair Toren is there a skill or a knowledge that you had that you could bring there? you think you could make yourself of use? Have you had enough, if you had the funds to, your startup business going, right?

Sage Moreaux 43:14

I've made soap, but only from a kit, never with lye.

Zinzi Brookbree 43:18

Hmm

Sage Moreaux 43:18

I can sew, but probably not as well as the seamstresses that already exist there.

Zinzi Brookbree 43:27

Yeah, I was like, "I can crochet, but I'm sure they're better at it."

Sage Moreaux 43:31

Yeah, I mean, and it seems like everybody can read and write pretty well Cause I was gonna say I could be a scribe, read and write things for people

Katherine Suzette 43:42

I could cook. I, I went through the same things as Sage. I was like, "Sewing." And then like, oh, but not as well as they could. And then I was like, okay, fashion stuff. You know, I have experience, like, learning all the makeup and the hair and the style choices and things like that. And then I'm like, oh yeah, but then I'd have to be, like, retrained in what they have their society. And then I was like, oh, non-verbal communication training. I could sit in the room during, like, political deals and conversations and things like that and tell whichever party I'm working for all of the signals that I see.

Zinzi Brookbree 44:12

You...

Katherine Suzette 44:13

again,

Zinzi Brookbree 44:13

So what I'm hearing is Katherine would go work for the Sheers

Katherine Suzette 44:17

Yeah. that was definitely... I was like, ooh, that, that's the one I spent the most time on mentally when you asked.

Zinzi Brookbree 44:22

Mm-hmm.

Katherine Suzette 44:23

then cooking. I could do cooking. I am an excellent cook. Not 100% of the time, but

Zinzi Brookbree 44:29

Mm-hmm. "I am useless." I would be useless in, in a medieval world. also because as soon as either my contacts, are taken out or my glasses are knocked off of my face, I would be blind. So that would be, that would be an issue. On,

Sage Moreaux 44:45

patisserie

Zinzi Brookbree 44:47

hmm

Katherine Suzette 44:47

Mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux 44:48

Fine patisserie, 'cause I do bake, and I believe I could improve upon some things

Zinzi Brookbree 44:54

Yeah.

Katherine Suzette 44:55

a

Zinzi Brookbree 44:55

Board games. I could start inventing board games. That's what I would do, is I would start thinking about different card games and board games, and try and introduce those to people of leisure who have time on their hands.

Katherine Suzette 45:10

Nice. You

Zinzi Brookbree 45:10

That's my skill

Katherine Suzette 45:11

about having a gaming night, things like that.

Zinzi Brookbree 45:13

Yeah

Katherine Suzette 45:14

master kind of a session.

Zinzi Brookbree 45:16

Mm-hmm. Show me to your back room with the poker tables. With my lack of poker face, yeah. So there is a bit of, I feel like I relate to Maggie in that that is naturally how my brain works, where I am going through my day and going, if this happens, then here's the other possibilities of what will happen next, you know, out of those options, what's the best scenario that's gonna, gonna,

Katherine Suzette 45:42

Yep

Zinzi Brookbree 45:43

lead in the direction that I want it to," blah, blah, blah, right? There's, And it's so cool to see that in a book where that's basically a character's superpower, is just that level of strategic thinking ahead

Katherine Suzette 46:00

Yeah, I like it yeah. Oh, and then I wonder if the, the stelka isn't a part of this somehow. I don't know, like the, like the stelka has more knowledge, or maybe the stelka's just adopting her and taking care of her. Like, "Oh, yeah, you sweet, poor, poor pup," you know, "You need care." I don't know. But it could also be that the stelka is a, conscious being, who knows a lot of things. I don't know

Sage Moreaux 46:30

I thought it brought her the fish.

Katherine Suzette 46:31

Oh, totally.

Sage Moreaux 46:33

But we're, we have a

Katherine Suzette 46:34

fact. I... It's, it's not exposed in the over-reading that I did that it was otherwise. definitely am assuming that that was the stelka.

Zinzi Brookbree 46:43

hmm

Sage Moreaux 46:44

Which because

Katherine Suzette 46:45

she close her window after that?

Sage Moreaux 46:47

Yeah, exactly. Whoever brought that fish in did some kind of sneaky magic, but, um,

Katherine Suzette 46:53

Hmm.

Sage Moreaux 46:54

like my cats will bring me dead animals,

Katherine Suzette 46:59

Mm-hmm. Mine

Sage Moreaux 47:00

but we also don't live near wa- a river, so. Yeah, exactly, and it's like a pr- protective gift, so that's what it made me think of, reminded me of that

Katherine Suzette 47:08

Yeah, especially when they, like, feel like the person that they're adopting needs care. Like, they can't, clearly cannot fend for themselves, therefore creature takes it upon themselves to help them

Sage Moreaux 47:21

my husband was out of town one time when my kids were little, and my cat fully just brought the ginous rat in. And I was like, "Oh, you think I can't feed us, so you're bringing me a, like some food?" I was like, "Great, thanks." It was very thoughtful

Katherine Suzette 47:36

mean, sometimes

Zinzi Brookbree 47:37

l-

Katherine Suzette 47:37

just, like, bring it for praise, But they bring it because they, they wanna take care of you or share in their prowess.

Zinzi Brookbree 47:44

Let us move into... favorite moments, any other favorite moments that you guys, wanted to touch on in these, several chapters

Katherine Suzette 47:56

I think Sol and Tine, Sol and Tine sneaking into

Zinzi Brookbree 48:00

So in time. Good job.

Katherine Suzette 48:02

also the Stelka the fish. And yes, I am assuming it is the Stelka. Maybe we learn differently, but I think it's the Stelka leaving the fish. I thought that that was great. And also, like, Clover's the frank discussion between her and Maggie

Sage Moreaux 48:15

I really liked how liked how the author handled her backstory when she basically, breaks it all down of why she, the whole thing of, like, Clover isn't her name, and why she's gonna stay going by Clover instead of going back to her old name because she really did take pride in being a lady's maid, and then that was, like, taken from her, and how she just very matter-of-factly talks about it. It's not shied away from, but it's also not, over-glorified. And we don't know what happened to Clover after she was brought into Derog's dungeon or whatever with all the guard, even more atrocities could have happened at that point. Didn't get into that. It just was, like, bad enough that this happened, and let's move on, and I really enjoyed how well that was handled in the writing

Zinzi Brookbree 49:09

I wanted to comment on that because I highlighted the lines, that the little speech that Clover gives, where she goes, So it doesn't matter what my name was. The girl who had that name is no longer here. Things that happened to me would have broken her, but I survived. Clover, exactly what they made me. I'll keep the name. It's mine now, and I'll make them regret giving it to me." that little speech just felt like such a, kernel of the center of Clover and, what her purpose is now,

Sage Moreaux 49:40

Mm-hmm.

Katherine Suzette 49:40

Clover does the killing blow in the end. There we go. I vote for Clover having the killing blow

Zinzi Brookbree 49:47

at the end of that discussion she has, also the moment that I thought this was smart of the, the writers, right? we're not left in this, even though it's a serious conversation, Clover then looks at, Maggie and Reynald and Kaiden and goes, "Is the food not delicious?" And then, like, we've got the com- comedic beat, right? Where all they're like, "Oh, yes, it's so good," and they all go back to eating.

Katherine Suzette 50:11

Yeah

Zinzi Brookbree 50:12

and, you know, Clover paves the way for us to be like, "Okay, let's move on. The moment's broken. So I just, I thought, I found that to be clever writing

Sage Moreaux 50:19

I really like how the found family is a variety of ages, and that it isn't just everyone is either, you know, 25 or looks 25.

Zinzi Brookbree 50:29

Mm-hmm.

Katherine Suzette 50:30

Yeah

Zinzi Brookbree 50:30

S- or

Sage Moreaux 50:31

right?

Zinzi Brookbree 50:31

like, a group of teenagers that have all bonded

Sage Moreaux 50:33

It's like a real family, right? 'Cause usually a family has generations within it.

Zinzi Brookbree 50:39

We can head into theories and predictions for what's coming next

Katherine Suzette 50:43

For the most part, I don't think we really kept them to ourselves. we just put them right out there. I think that a potential, Reynald is being set up so that something we don't know about him. like, the, the readers are being manipulated into being a little bit suspicious. And if they're not suspicious, it's because they're like, "Oh, there's gonna be this romance," and that's the distracting element, right? And maybe there is, but also I believe that the romance is the distraction from what's really going on with Reynald, I kind of wonder... I really like Sage's prediction that Reynald's son could be the author, but what if the author is able to kinda go in and out of his book, or he accidentally got, like, went into this world and ended up in Reynald, and he was kinda trying to manipulate events himself, and that's why he's Maggie earlier on, and maybe, like, testing her a little bit to see if maybe she really does understand things. So it could be that the author is currently in Reynald's role I don't know if that's like, I don't know if that overrides my prediction that the author is the one in the garden, that mysterious golden-eyed man, but,

Zinzi Brookbree 51:51

Mm-hmm

Katherine Suzette 51:52

but this, it's an option that I see

Sage Moreaux 51:55

I had a lot of different theories that I think I thought through and then discarded as I was reading. One where I was like, "What if Reynald is the author?" And then I thought probably that's not true, but it made me think a lot about like, okay, we're just accepting that Maggie has been sucked into this world of these books that she read, and, you know, she's very caught up on what knowledge she doesn't know, or, or what knowledge is out of sync and what that could mean for the knowledge that she does know, and that's being presented very clearly, and it just made me wonder like, okay, well who Did somebody choose her to come in? Why did they choose her to come in? Are these books I really hope that these books, that they put out book three, and that it's not a mirror of the books that she is currently reading.

Zinzi Brookbree 52:46

awful would that be? Ugh

Sage Moreaux 52:49

awful. I think, that would ruin some careers. Probably won't happen

Zinzi Brookbree 52:53

so much fan fiction of like, "I need to have answers. I'm writing it for myself,"

Sage Moreaux 52:57

Okay, so I have two other predictions. you reminded me, this one is gonna be impossible to track, but in book two I believe that there will be a world map or a larger—like right now we have Kair Toren, but there's all these things that are happening outside of this If you look in your book at the beginning at the map, there is a Kair Toren map, and then there is a, a, like, a continent that does have some of the information, but I'm going to, I'm gonna give the prediction that there might be a more detailed, or it's a hope, 'cause I love a map, there'll be a more detailed, map of Rellas itself. Because I feel like even if the world, even if everything that's happening stays within the city, so much of the knowledge of stuff that, has happened in the books that Maggie's read have taken place outside of the city. So I've always been like, I want a more detailed map. So my, that's my prediction, is that maybe book two will have a more detailed one.

Zinzi Brookbree 53:55

I love that you brought that up actually, because... So one of the things that was giving me a huge internal chuckle, the whole bit that we talked about earlier where a fan had, done all the weights of, how heavy the barrel should be and things like that. Well, there is a fan of This Kingdom Will Not Kill Me and I forget if, they were posting on, I think it's on, on the Facebook group for Ilona Andrews. but she had, map measuring distances of, like, where locations should be based on horse riding or, like, the different way that things are traveled of the, larger continent and larger world, and then got contacted by, House Andrews, about being an extra resource for checking their map because that is something that they will be working towards So another score for Sage that that is

Sage Moreaux 54:47

Awesome

Zinzi Brookbree 54:48

that we will be seeing, and that,

Sage Moreaux 54:50

hope so

Zinzi Brookbree 54:51

of some fans just get so into the details that they, you know, are already plotting out these extra things that just e- enriches the whole experience as a reader and as part of the

Sage Moreaux 55:03

at the very end of the reading of this book, we can make predictions for book two

Zinzi Brookbree 55:10

Yeah. that will absolutely be part of our pajama party now that we have all of this knowledge of what's the setup and we know how this one ends, what, what do we think is gonna happen? What, what's been set up here that we think is gonna stay? What's been set up that we think is gonna change because Maggie's, choices have affected the plot, and what might happen. all exciting and I'm looking forward to we would love to hear your own theories and corrections. Please put them in the comments, but no spoilers. for this episode, I will remind you, we are only up to the end of chapter 14.

Katherine Suzette 55:42

Your homework for the next episode is to read chapters 15 through 17. Don't be me. at the end of chapter 17 for our next episode if you're doing the read-along. Outside of this podcast, you can find us at bookdragonink.com, as well as on Zinzi Bree's weekly Zoom write-ins. If you are a writer and you wanna join a great group of people to do some weekly writing, her on Substack at Write With Me Zinzi Bree. We'd love for you to check that out, and we can't wait to continue the conversation. just like our book stuff here on the pod, check us out over on Substack, Book Dragon Banter on Substack, where you can support us directly. Shout-out to Ria Nancoo. She is still a committed supporter. also, we wanna ask those of you who aren't going to, go to that extra level of effort to leave us a review. It really helps indie podcasts like us get noticed out there. leave us a great review. It helps, we promise. Thank you so much for tuning in. Reynald says, "Fuck the kind of people who would sacrifice 80 souls to further their ambitions." Or I can try it in an accent. Fuck the kind... No, I cannot apparently try the accent.

Zinzi Brookbree 56:53

Fuck the kind of people who would sacrifice 80 souls to further their ambitions." Is that kinda close to h- how he's, how he's done in the audiobook? I love it so much

Katherine Suzette 57:03

And as Maggie says, "No milk runs." Reynald also says, one can escape the seventh chamber." Not the seventh chapter, we can all escape that, but seventh chamber.

Zinzi Brookbree 57:16

Yes, we've all read past the seventh chapter at this point. All right, thank you so much for listening. See you next time.