Can I Get That in Writing? - Chapters 32-36 This Kingdom Will Not Kill Me Read Along

This Kingdom Will Not Kill Me Read-Along: Maggie’s Magic, Digi’s Deal, and Bellen’s Red Flags 

In this episode of Book Dragon Banter its hosts, Katherine, Sage and Zinzi Bree, discuss chapters 32–36 of This Kingdom Will Not Kill Me by Ilona Andrews, framing them as the setup before the climax. They recap Maggie meeting Galiene, exposing the leak to Hreban and learning Maggie can speak Sereso, then discuss expanding magic lore (mage tower, ancient Crimson Empire spells, and Maggie’s unusually strong magic). They cover Solentine and Everard’s fast travel via Drezmurs, Digi’s tense information visit tied to Everard’s past, and Maggie’s feelings as Everard departs. Maggie is “rescued” by flirtatious Lord Bellen, whom they distrust, while Will brings Maggie the butcher’s name. An invitation to the Joeduar ball sets up political drama, and they predict use of Digi’s stone, a coming mage-tower confrontation, and future Drezmur riding.

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Our Summer Read-Along: This Kingdom Will Not Kill Me (Bookshop.org affiliate link): 

https://bookshop.org/p/books/this-kingdom-will-not-kill-me-ilona-andrews/f544c8f1dba95f55?ean=9781250377265&next=t&aid=124342&listref=book-dragon-book-club-reads

00:00 Recap and Setup

00:28 Podcast Intro and Rules

02:19 Chapter 32 Magic Reveals

04:43 Carriage Banter and Isadau

07:08 Damaes and Mage Tower Theories

11:50 Crimson Empire Lore

16:54 Digi Meeting Tensions

18:47 Everard Earns Trust Back

23:24 Home vs Kair Toren Identity

28:18 Mystery Notes and Fast Travel

30:57 Drezmurs and Ride Temptation

33:35 Everard Red Flags

35:46 Solentine Warns Maggie

37:46 Future Falling Out

39:42 Bellen Horse Rescue

47:05 Citadel Meteor Magic

48:10 Damaes Mage Theories

51:22 Will Names Butcher

52:31 Joedurar Ball Hype

55:37 Stone of Remembrance

57:58 Kiss Predictions

59:47 Wrap Up and Outro

Transcript

Katherine Suzette (2) 0:00

Galiene needs a favor, Maggie needs a mage, and then she forms a plan. Maggie learns to stab, Diji visits for information, and we learn how Solentine and Everard have been traveling so fast as they both have to make quick exits. Bye, boys. Maggie gets arrested, I mean, escorted, and then rescued by Lord Bellan, the flirt, and Maggie gets the butcher's name and an invitation

Zinzi Brookbree 0:26

welcome. We see the assassins have failed. We are Book Dragon Banter, a podcast where three aspiring authors talk all things books. We're fantasy-focused but not exclusive. Join Sage, Katherine, and me, I'm Zinzi Bree, as we read This Kingdom Will Not Kill Me by Ilona Andrews, all for the love of story. Read or reread along with us. We're so glad you're here, and now's a great time to hit that subscribe button. That said, we're an explicit podcast, and we can give our honest and unfiltered opinions

Sage Moreaux (2) 0:53

This Not So Mini season is sponsored by Book Dragon, Inc., our company where we host writing retreats online with workshops, book coach access, writing sprints, and community. You can find our links to that in the show notes

Katherine Suzette (2) 1:06

we're saving our full spoiler discussion for a wrap-up pajama party, which I am super excited for. But in the meantime, we want to see all of your comments and reactions, and corrections if you have them, down in the comments. Please keep sharing with us, just don't spoil it for us, by that I mean Sage. I don't care, you can spoil me all day long. Don't spoil on Sage, though. let's get into it

Zinzi Brookbree 1:28

we're a bit discombobulated with this particular episode because our previous episode was meant to cover chapter 32, but we didn't have time for it. So we're gonna kinda speed run through this section of chapters, which I think is okay because most of it is... This is like the calm before the storm, right? There's a lot of setup, there's a lot of pieces that are getting placed on the board for what's coming at the climax

Katherine Suzette (2) 1:54

Yeah. The board is expanding a little bit too. We're learning more about the world in here, so we're, we're getting, like, extra things added. Gosh, we're over 50%, we're in that almost 70% stage where we're really setting things up for more, not just this climax, but for more after this. So yeah, I'm excited. Love a good calm before the storm, 'cause my tension is high. We need to get through this so I can read more

Sage Moreaux (2) 2:19

Yes.

Zinzi Brookbree 2:19

chapter 32, reminder, that is when, Maggie goes back to the garden and meets with Galiene and tells her, that it's Arlais that, is leaking information to Hreban, and has plans to poison, Galiene or, Hade, whichever is gives her the better opportunity, 'cause she's an ambitious girl who is now dead because she was eaten by magical butterflies. But also in that chapter we learn, and this was the part that I was like, "Sage has gotta be excited about this," that Maggie can speak Sereso, which is the language of magic, Sage is

Sage Moreaux (2) 2:58

Yes

Zinzi Brookbree 2:59

let's learn magic. So what did you think about that part, Sage?

Sage Moreaux (2) 3:02

Yeah, I was really excited. I felt like this chapter, well first of all I will, will say when I started the chapter and she was leaving Everard behind, I was like, had a flicker of disappointment because I enjoy him on page so much and then I was like, there's no way she's leaving him behind or that he's not gonna figure it out. Yeah. so we can get back into that later but, I felt like this was the chapter where magic start, like yes there's been magic in terms of what Everard's magic and Solentine's magic and the Butcher had magic, like this kind of more martial arts or martial style magic and this was bloodline magic and used for fighting, right? And it was more all of the magic that we've seen has been more used in combat and it hasn't been, I mean not the butterflies wasn't exactly like fighting or, or murder but this was the we were it was definitely murder and we also in this chapter started talking about, so there was the mage of the garden but then we, there's also the wizard tower, right? I believe the mage tower featured in the very first chapter, like really early on in the first chapter of this book and so to have it starting to come, yeah it's on, exactly, and it's very pretty. to have it start coming up more and more is like leading me to believe that it's gonna be a key piece of what's coming. but so I, I'm loving how they just, like they've been hinting at the magic all along and the comment that Maggie has too much magic was very exciting to me

Zinzi Brookbree 4:32

Mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux (2) 4:32

got all of my prediction brain sparking. I don't know if I have a solid prediction about that one other than my idea that she is from Kair Toren, New predictions

Zinzi Brookbree 4:43

ride between Solentine and Maggie, right? They're in the carriage, and unknown to them, Everard has hitched a ride and is listening to this conversation, and we have this super, I found so entertaining, the line of Everard saying, "You give me too little credit, I'd be very careful with your heart." Right? Because Solentine's like,

Katherine Suzette (2) 5:04

I chip

Zinzi Brookbree 5:04

each other, my life would have been easier, but also I would be heartbroken."

Sage Moreaux (2) 5:09

I love that so much. That was so sweet.

Katherine Suzette (2) 5:12

Yeah, I like that they didn't like...

Sage Moreaux (2) 5:13

friendship

Katherine Suzette (2) 5:15

Yeah, they didn't balk or anything.

Zinzi Brookbree 5:16

Mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux (2) 5:18

And then he told, like, in the next line he basically, Everard told Sol not to be so dramatic, and I love that too. Like, seeing their playfulness between, with each other come out, was very fun. Cause so often everything is very, like, heated, and it's, you know, the stake of the kingdom at stake, and this is just, like, a fun little flirtation, best friend flirtation. Some bromance.

Zinzi Brookbree 5:39

We love a good bromance is there anything else in that chapter? Katherine put in the in the notes, "Who the fuck is I- Isido?" Which made me laugh because her name just gets thrown out there, and we're like, "And we don't get to know for a while." I know, but you guys still don't get to know.

Katherine Suzette (2) 5:55

Yeah, I love it, 'cause there's no description, there's just a name, and clearly we're supposed to remember the name. Like, the authors do such a good job of choosing when to use a name versus when to use a description or an impression.

Zinzi Brookbree 6:06

Mm-hmm.

Katherine Suzette (2) 6:06

and I've been thinking about this so much since we talked about Kaiden's parents, and as I listen, I'm like, "When do they choose to use a name versus not?" And I think it's all intentional, 'cause we're only supposed to know what they give us on purpose, and I freaking love it

Sage Moreaux (2) 6:24

I've been cheating a little and I've been reading on my Kindle where you can search and look back. So I don't look forward at all, 'cause you know I don't like spoilers, but I do look, so if I search a name within the book, it will show me where that name has popped up in the past, which is really helpful instead of flipping through pages, which I will do in a physical book to find, like, when did that moment come up previously, and remind myself of, where I've heard a name before or whatever. But Isidore was brand new, and either she is the red-headed, vagrant woman who causes pain if you touch her it sounded like, if I remember correctly,

Katherine Suzette (2) 7:03

Yeah

Sage Moreaux (2) 7:03

is somebody related to the wizard tower, and I'm, that's my, my theories. what's the name of the mage? Damas?

Katherine Suzette (2) 7:12

Dumbass. Dumbass

Zinzi Brookbree 7:13

Damaes, Damaes, Dama- I call him Dumbass.

Katherine Suzette (2) 7:17

Damage.

Zinzi Brookbree 7:19

It's, there's Between Everhard and Dumbass, just, I was like, did the authors not just run these through a, like,

Katherine Suzette (2) 7:29

I think they did it on purpose

Zinzi Brookbree 7:30

they really love names the, the way that they are, and it's very clearly in their head it sounds like X, Y, and Z, and it just never occurs to them that they can be twisted into these, this other Yeah. But Damaes, Dumbass, just, I can't. that's just, that's who he is in my head. I can't get his

Katherine Suzette (2) 7:49

Love it.

Zinzi Brookbree 7:50

right.

Sage Moreaux (2) 7:50

You've potentially met him because you've read the whole book, so maybe he really is a dumbass and Katherine and I just don't know that yet.

Katherine Suzette (2) 7:57

I do know that he's eccentric so far because the whole thing with the meteor and all of that, the way that, that Bernard, Brentard, Ben- Bento, whatever his name is, encountered that situation. Bellan, yes, the, the handsome, mysterious, wants-something-out-of-you flirt that I would run away from at a bar. But, the way that he encountered that situation, I feel like dumbass is eccentric at least, so

Zinzi Brookbree 8:24

Mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux (2) 8:25

Yeah, and I feel like in the very first chapter there was some crazy stuff happening at the mage tower, Like, lights were happening and stuff was going, so like he's up there experimenting, I assume it's him, all the time.

Katherine Suzette (2) 8:36

Love it

Sage Moreaux (2) 8:36

can't wait to meet him, can't wait to see Maggie pitted against him. Presumably, well now I'm getting a little bit ahead,

Katherine Suzette (2) 8:43

Is that her father? Is that her father?

Sage Moreaux (2) 8:47

yeah, presumably without Everard around because, or Solentine, so she's like on her own going up against the head mage like good way to go, Maggie. She said something about wanting to prove to herself that she could survive in Kair Torenwn, which she sort of did do when she went to the garden when she was a beggar woman, right? So that like worked out for her, although she, you know, she mostly used money that she had stolen. but also I'm like way to pick your battles, like let's just go up against the most powerful mage in the city while none of your boyfriends are around, so know what she's thinking.

Zinzi Brookbree 9:20

Another of her boyfriends, you mean her

Katherine Suzette (2) 9:23

Retinue?

Zinzi Brookbree 9:24

interest

Sage Moreaux (2) 9:24

Gentleman companions.

Zinzi Brookbree 9:26

not

Sage Moreaux (2) 9:26

Yeah, cousin,

Zinzi Brookbree 9:27

on the list of potential boyfriends. They're family now. Incest is

Sage Moreaux (2) 9:31

No, and she did, she did make a nice, comment about how in this chapter how Solentine was a thirst trap but luckily she was immune, and I was thinking about how all of the characters that she's been like kind of allowing herself to be flirty with, which is basically Everard and this Bellan character, are characters that she has not been in the head of, right? So she hasn't been in Everard's head at all, and she, Bellan wasn't in the books, but Solentine, she was like intimately in his head. Although I guess she did love, she did love Romonde. Remo- no, uh,

Zinzi Brookbree 10:08

Nope. Reynald.

Sage Moreaux (2) 10:09

God, why, I don't know why their names have to be so similar. That one gets a little hard for me, but anyway. so she was in Reynald's head and, she was crushing on him, but he wasn't actually himself, so

Katherine Suzette (2) 10:23

Yeah, I think had Reynald been his- himself, she probably wouldn't have crushed on him in the same way. He was an entirely different human who encountered his pains and his choices and things very differently.

Sage Moreaux (2) 10:34

Yeah.

Katherine Suzette (2) 10:34

only way that she would've fallen for Reynald in the way that it's set up here is because he was Everard

Zinzi Brookbree 10:40

Yeah.

Katherine Suzette (2) 10:41

the end

Zinzi Brookbree 10:41

the book does, and I believe Maggie even comments about, the original Reynald being a more stoic character, and he probably just wouldn't have been as charming or as quippy, right, as Everard is. He'd have been, he might have come across more like Gort, just a widowed Gort

Sage Moreaux (2) 11:01

Yeah Definitely.

Zinzi Brookbree 11:03

cause he's dead.

Sage Moreaux (2) 11:05

He's dead

Zinzi Brookbree 11:05

He's

Katherine Suzette (2) 11:06

said so joyfully.

Sage Moreaux (2) 11:09

Mm-hmm.

Zinzi Brookbree 11:09

Know, I'm terrible. If

Sage Moreaux (2) 11:12

for Reynald

Zinzi Brookbree 11:13

don't have to see the character die on page, I'm not emotionally invested in them before they go, I can very cheerfully say, "Well, he's dead," and I don't have to worry about it, 'cause my emotions didn't get invested. if there is a character that my heart is invest- I mean, you guys saw me when we did the Sword of Kaigen, and

Katherine Suzette (2) 11:29

yeah. We were crying.

Zinzi Brookbree 11:30

was angry sobbing over that and getting choked up as we talked about it during the podcast.

Katherine Suzette (2) 11:35

Yeah.

Zinzi Brookbree 11:36

a character death on that level, I will be crying on camera, because I am a, I am a teapot, um, a watering can. Uh, I cry very easy. All right, moving along.

Sage Moreaux (2) 11:50

Sorry, can I say one more thing about that chapter? Because there was also talk when the contract was being looked over with the gardens mage and Maggie and Everard, and I guess Solentine was there too, I don't remember. But anyways, there was, there was magical writing on the contract that created this little spot, and they were talking about that, and they talked about how the Crimson Usurper and his death mages 300 years previously had been the ones to create this kind of spell that, life, I forget what it was called, like a life bond or something like that.

Zinzi Brookbree 12:22

It's

Sage Moreaux (2) 12:22

And I talked about this I think in our last episode, where, there's all of this rich history of the world that I can't decide if it is just this amazing rich history that adds credence to this being a real place and creates all of this world building and color, or if that's gonna become a key plot point possibly in later books. So that one just sparked my interest of, we've heard about the Crimson Empire for a while now, and I do feel like some kind of Crimson Empire uprising, attack, rebellion, is gonna happen possibly in later books. then the Crimson Empire would come in

Zinzi Brookbree 13:02

there's an invasion from the Crimson Empire, so we're still expecting that to happen at some point

Sage Moreaux (2) 13:08

Yeah. So and then like this whole thing with their mages, so whether or not like the actuality of those ancient 300-year-old ago people somehow like they've defied death or whatever

Zinzi Brookbree 13:22

if that particular, cult of mages in the Crimson Empire are gonna come back?

Sage Moreaux (2) 13:27

Exactly.

Zinzi Brookbree 13:28

during

Sage Moreaux (2) 13:28

they're magic in some way.

Zinzi Brookbree 13:31

Hmm, interesting. Yeah. 'Cause during the little history lesson, right, the Crimson Empire and both outlawed slavery, right? Like, so that's at least something that both of those countries on the surface don't have going on. But where is Hebron getting these contracts to begin with?

Sage Moreaux (2) 13:50

Yeah. He could have his own mages, but he could be in bed with the Crimson Empire,

Zinzi Brookbree 13:55

Yeah. Something that I loved with this was for Maggie, there's been several instances of because she has so much magic going on in her body that we've learned now between, the contract trying to warn her away from signing, right? Like that, that magic even has that, a little bit of some kind of sentience or something that is things as well, that it would warn you away from signing something that's bad for you. and then also that it's attracting magically sensitive animals to her, between the Drezmer liking her and also right? Sushi bit her at the very beginning of the story because it wanted a taste of her magic, and this is my theory, is the, because it bit her, it may have a little bit of what the, the Akula's little creature can do, where it can do tracking, like magical tracking to a degree throughout the city, and that's how it was able to find her later once she had set up house in the fortress.

Katherine Suzette (2) 14:58

I don't wanna move from this chapter until I say that, like, this thirst trap with Solitude, he's just so piratical, and he knew it too. I adored that moment. I adored how Maggie analyzed it. Okay, now we can move on.

Zinzi Brookbree 15:14

I...

Katherine Suzette (2) 15:14

Hold up

Zinzi Brookbree 15:16

I need clarity. Did you just say piratical as in pirate or tyrannical as in tyrant? Because I could not hear one

Katherine Suzette (2) 15:25

Piratical. although

Zinzi Brookbree 15:27

dressed like a pirate.

Katherine Suzette (2) 15:29

I, can see that being tyrannical as well, but nah, it was more swashbuckling. Yeah, he had the leather straps, he had the poofy sleeves, he had the long jacket. He was all cleaned and polished, although he did shave, which is not normally a pirate thing. But yeah, I appreciated how well Solentine can weaponize his looks in order to charm those in his vicinity, and, he does it with such intention

Sage Moreaux (2) 15:58

I've been really coming around to I loved Solentine when he was first introduced, and then I would- was mad at him when he was disregarding Maggie so heavily, which is whatever. That was character appropriate, but it still made me upset. And then I have been coming around to him, but I absolutely love him when he talked about how it wasn't up to him to dictate what a woman did with her virtue, or a person did with their virtue. Love you,

Katherine Suzette (2) 16:20

Yeah, and also how he,

Sage Moreaux (2) 16:22

cousin,

Zinzi Brookbree 16:23

Favorite

Katherine Suzette (2) 16:24

100%, but also in later chapters how he treated Maggie's, wrong choices according to Solentine. He could probably have a whole, list of things like that, but wrong choices according to Solentine, and he didn't berate Maggie for it. He didn't get upset with her. He was just like, "Okay, now what?" And Maggie comments on this in the... Yeah, I appreciated that. So Solentine's all win right now

Zinzi Brookbree 16:50

he's all about family, and Maggie's family now Good luck to him. Moving on to Diji's visit, in that scene where she shows up, she's got her bodyguard, and Maggie sits down and offers the fancy tea with clover, and then Everard walks into the room, and we have to remember not her father, is responsible for the death of Everard's mother. so that just immediately raises tensions in the room, right? 'Cause, you know, you say the wrong thing, you get enough of, of an excuse and well, here's an opportunity for revenge that Everard did not take.

Sage Moreaux (2) 17:28

Yeah, but she's innocent of that crime. She's not the one that killed his mother and Presumably she wasn't intricately involved in any way to that.

Katherine Suzette (2) 17:38

I mean

Sage Moreaux (2) 17:38

'Cause then I do believe if she was involved, he would have had taken issue with it. and I

Katherine Suzette (2) 17:43

Yeah

Zinzi Brookbree 17:44

your mother's husband,

Sage Moreaux (2) 17:46

And I think that character is being lined up as somebody we will meet on the page because he's a, like a puppy murderer and a whole dog murderer, so he's being painted as very much a villain regardless of, Digi's, he was doing to her. but for the reader, hearing like that you're a dog murderer really draws the line

Zinzi Brookbree 18:05

Nail in the coffin, yeah

Katherine Suzette (2) 18:06

Yeah, well, and the way that he abused and tricked, Diji's mother in a sense into marrying him. I, well, I mean manipulated, maybe not tricked. she knew what was happening. But, with Everard choosing not to harm Diji, I think that he might have if it was going to send a particularly desired message to her father. But she was using that separation language, which Everard did not know until he was in that room had happened, because Maggie did not tell him, and she did not tell him on purpose. She wouldn't have told him had he not been like, "Ooh, secret meeting, I'm gonna go anyway. Screw what Maggie wants, I need this info." so he goes and he sits in, and that's where he learns

Zinzi Brookbree 18:47

The level of trust that he's demonstrating, right? Like, walks in, sits down next to Maggie, takes her side, says nothing until addressed, because he's letting her dictate what happens here, and that's admirable, and on the, on the, another green flag for Everard and the choices that he's making, given the circumstances

Katherine Suzette (2) 19:11

True, he's also, by supporting her, he's showing everybody else that she's as powerful and deserves the respect that he does and has. beyond that, though, when he came into this room with Diji and her bodyguard, he didn't wear his cowl as he had in previous meetings. So he came in as himself with no plan to keep anybody in the dark or to use his identity as a secret weapon later in the meeting. He just came in as the secret weapon right from the get-go. he might have harmed Diji had it been in his best interest, but he knew to trust Maggie when he came in. He still came in as his very threatening self, and he let things play out, and he learned things that I think led him to continuing to let the situation slide and see how Maggie was going to handle this and help it play out. stamp of approval on all of that. Also, like the way he handled Diji's, request for, "Can I get, can the next heir get that in writing?" can the next ruler, me, get this agreement in writing?

Zinzi Brookbree 20:12

Yeah.

Katherine Suzette (2) 20:14

a ruler yet. Talk to me when you've done this."

Zinzi Brookbree 20:17

Yeah

Sage Moreaux (2) 20:18

And also what an insult to doubt his honor, right? He's all about, his word is set in stone. He's all about, his honor. My read on Everard is that he has no problems with violence. He has no problems killing people or doing what is necessary to get the job done if it is warranted, and that he is very cool and calculating about it, and I don't believe that he would have harmed Diji at all if he had met her in another place unless she instigated. So if she had

Katherine Suzette (2) 20:48

Or if it was for his benefit

Sage Moreaux (2) 20:49

yeah, for his benefit in a very logical way. I'm sure he's upset about his mom. my sense is that he was close to his mom and that was really devastating to him. But coming across a relative, he is gonna make a lot of very, strategic choices in that he wouldn't have harmed her unless she had antagonized him in some way, and then in that case, he might have. I liked

Katherine Suzette (2) 21:10

Yeah

Sage Moreaux (2) 21:10

trying to get back in Maggie's good graces and, show up as a partner and a supportive partner in this way where he's "I'm supporting you. I'm, yeah, you didn't want me in the room, but I'm gonna come in and I'm not gonna mess your scene up. I'm gonna just be here support."

Katherine Suzette (2) 21:25

Yeah. Another aspect in which he's throwing his weight and his power, so to speak, behind Maggie and her choices, from taking the, the vow from the one guy in the last chapter. The oath, yeah,

Zinzi Brookbree 21:40

Yeah,

Katherine Suzette (2) 21:40

the oath of service that Maggie used him. So even then she said, "Can I have him?" And then Everard took the oath and made sure that Maggie was standing there so that she could receive the oath as well. even though the guy made it with Everard, most technically in the spirit of it, and you know, with Everard and his, "In the spirit of it," and, "My word is bond," and all that kind of thing, Everard is picturing it as a Maggie and Everard oath with this guy. he's acting like this is a done deal

Zinzi Brookbree 22:12

Well, I

Katherine Suzette (2) 22:12

And he's showing her how it's gonna be. like it.

Zinzi Brookbree 22:15

you just don't know it.

Katherine Suzette (2) 22:16

Yeah, he's winning me back over, which is good. He's showing her what it's going to be like when they're in a partnership. I still don't like a lot of overbearing, but in this context for right now, it's understandable

Sage Moreaux (2) 22:28

He's overbearing, but I would also say that I prefer, the cards on the table.

Katherine Suzette (2) 22:33

Yeah

Zinzi Brookbree 22:34

Mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux (2) 22:38

he is not hiding who he is, as opposed to someone like Bellan who feels like he is doing all this charm, and I don't trust him. So Everard is like, the whole earn trust thing that he was doing as Reynald, like now he's rebuilding trust. But I feel like he's a little more like, "This is who I am. This is what you're getting. now that you know who I actually am, here's who I am. I'm not gonna pretend to be this charming whatever. I am This is me, and you're gonna love it."

Zinzi Brookbree 23:09

He doesn't have to pretend to be charming, it's

Sage Moreaux (2) 23:11

He does not-

Zinzi Brookbree 23:13

turns it off, depending on the, the moment and the opportunity, right, to, get in Maggie's good graces. speaking of, yeah, on Sage's good graces, too. I particularly love the scene After Solentine comes in and lets, Everard know that he's gotta leave, to go back home and make it there before the messenger arrives, and so they just have this evening alone where Maggie and Everard are in the room together and talking and, and we're getting Maggie realizing her feelings and how much she's gonna miss him when he's gone, that that he has to leave feels like she's getting and thoughts then turn that into, "Oh, no, I've been leaning on him. He's become a crutch. Can I... You know, am I gonna be okay without him?" And I wonder, even though there wasn't a specific thought in those lines of it, but like, is part of that because she knows or hopes eventually she'll go home, leave Kaertorn, she'll leave Rellas, and she'll have to go back to the real world and be without Everard? is that part of her to know that she's gonna be okay? or is it still just she's fighting her attraction and doesn't wanna give in?

Katherine Suzette (2) 24:30

I still don't think that her permanence here is her immediate problem, but she's definitely still not acting like she's a permanent figure here. She's acting more like she's a player in the plot line of the books that she read. But beyond that, there doesn't seem to be any, consideration of permanence. I don't know if that means that she believes she's gonna get home, but I do know that when she thinks of home, she wonders what's going on and how they're doing, and isn't making plans for getting back yet. it may be a plot key later on that she feels like she has to go back or, like, that's the next thing, somehow

Sage Moreaux (2) 25:06

believe she's gonna get sucked back in a inopportune moment. She will find herself somehow back on Earth. she did have a conversation with Solentine about how Ker Torren had changed her, and Solentine was like, "Maybe it's just showing you who you really are," and she was like, "Whoa, that's scary." And then later she was dwelling on if she did go home, how would she even, she was thinking about how comfortable she'd gotten with violence and being this woman who's killed multiple people and now at this point, and doesn't shy away from, the thought of having to defend herself, and being this kind of violent... Not that she's a violent person, but not being afraid of using violence in self-defense.

Zinzi Brookbree 25:48

yeah

Sage Moreaux (2) 25:48

would I even, like, how would I even integrate back into my past life in Earth?" And so I think that her integration I think her seeing herself as a permanent fixture, I mean, it's only been a month, think that that is starting to evolve and that she, as she has her found family, as she is finding her place, as she is developing these strong romantic feelings, she is seeing herself more as a member of, a citizen of Kair Toren

Katherine Suzette (2) 26:17

Yeah. She's feeling more at home here and more like herself here than she ever did on Earth

Sage Moreaux (2) 26:24

Yeah.

Zinzi Brookbree 26:24

Yeah.

Sage Moreaux (2) 26:25

I do think the thing about, not, wanting to be able to protect herself or stand on her own without Everard, I also think that's 'cause she has this strong, independent streak. And when she lived on Earth, she pretty much was a loner. She w- relied on herself. Yes, she had a loving family, but it seemed like she kind of, like, did her thing. She didn't have a lot of friends. And I, I see her as being this strong, independent woman, and she doesn't wanna lose that. She doesn't wanna become, like, the weepy heroine that needs to be rescued. So it would be real easy to But I also don't think that Everard would that of her. that's, he's wouldn't be drawn to that kind of woman in my opinion

Zinzi Brookbree 27:04

on him more.

Sage Moreaux (2) 27:06

Yeah, and maybe say, "Okay, you're right."

Zinzi Brookbree 27:09

she becomes a pushover, right, like that's

Sage Moreaux (2) 27:12

Or needy, yeah.

Katherine Suzette (2) 27:13

It's not what he's into, clearly.

Zinzi Brookbree 27:15

No

Katherine Suzette (2) 27:15

but the authors have a pattern of constructing characters that end up saving each other, so I think that's a relevant ploy that's gonna come back in here, and it is one that I like as a reader, to be fair. so I, I don't know exactly how yet that is going to play out, except for the minute Everard leaves Maggie ends up in danger again, that she accepts the challenge, goes to, this police officer, Anyway, his office, invited to discuss things. Yeah, she's usually like, "Challenge accepted. I will go because, you know, the plot is more important than my safety." And in so doing, has to be-

Zinzi Brookbree 27:57

about me

Katherine Suzette (2) 27:59

Yeah. Well, and it makes sense. Maggie's the kind, so far to want to to prioritize figuring these things out over her immediate safety. And to be fair, she can die and come back to life. hopefully, you know, not as, as much as we were afraid she might, but we'll see. but then she is inopportunely rescued by Bellan. Now, the key here, this kid who relays the messages there,

Zinzi Brookbree 28:25

Mm-hmm.

Katherine Suzette (2) 28:25

I'm wondering if, if he was sent by Goldeneyes, 'cause he's still sneakily in the background and involved in all these things, and because he keeps ending up in all these places that Maggie ends up, and the plot keeps changing whenever she gets involved. So, Silverin keeps having to adjust his plans and his actions according to whatever she does and changes. So I'm wondering if he was, he played a card there.

Sage Moreaux (2) 28:54

I have a theory.

Katherine Suzette (2) 28:55

could be something else,

Sage Moreaux (2) 28:56

I have a

Katherine Suzette (2) 28:56

but

Sage Moreaux (2) 28:56

theory

Zinzi Brookbree 28:57

out for your rereads, this is not the first time that a unknown note has shown up on Maggie's doorstep

Katherine Suzette (2) 29:04

Yep

Sage Moreaux (2) 29:05

My theory I thought Reynald's son, Matheo,

Zinzi Brookbree 29:10

Matteo?

Sage Moreaux (2) 29:12

Mateo, doesn't he, with the son Margrave, or is that wrong? Is he not, like, in the priest's order or something like this?

Zinzi Brookbree 29:19

the Sun Margrave. He is supposedly with Silven in the Knight Redeemers,

Sage Moreaux (2) 29:26

Redeemers.

Zinzi Brookbree 29:27

the, Lord Bellon has over, with the Knight of the Defenders, right? There's another version of that. That's the Knight Redeemer, and that's where, Maggie sent, Tilmar, as a spy,

Katherine Suzette (2) 29:41

Mm-hmm.

Zinzi Brookbree 29:42

was to go be there, and Silven is the head of the Knight Redeemers

Katherine Suzette (2) 29:47

Okay

Sage Moreaux (2) 29:47

my thought was, so first of all, anybody could dress like a priest if you presumably have the right garments. but my thought was either Matteo, because he can see what's happening in the moment, and that could, could see and then send some child, or I also thought there was like a mention of a priest that she thought was in danger of killing himself. I forget his name, and she

Katherine Suzette (2) 30:08

Yeah.

Sage Moreaux (2) 30:08

the brother and he gave her

Zinzi Brookbree 30:10

misremembering, that it's not...

Katherine Suzette (2) 30:13

Appearing to be a month

Zinzi Brookbree 30:14

at the cloister, a monk, that is with Pelegrin and helping him with, dealing with his trauma after being in service as a knight, and Pelegrin was the one that Maggie thought, would later hang himself, and is

Sage Moreaux (2) 30:30

any, he hasn't taken the cloth or whatever. He has not become

Zinzi Brookbree 30:34

No. He, he has no intention of becoming a monk. He is just there to heal

Sage Moreaux (2) 30:39

Okay. So I was thinking, oh, maybe he became a monk and that is who, but he's also, like, outside of town, so that didn't make as much sense to me. But that's who my mind on. Like, how many priests have we seen? Very few, I feel like, if any

Zinzi Brookbree 30:54

far, it's all good theories.

Katherine Suzette (2) 30:57

Yeah

Zinzi Brookbree 30:57

you guys think of, you've been questioning, right, fast travel, and here in these chapters, we get the solution to that question. What did you guys think of the Drezmers?

Katherine Suzette (2) 31:09

I want one

Sage Moreaux (2) 31:10

You want one.

Zinzi Brookbree 31:10

you

Sage Moreaux (2) 31:11

Yes. Mm-hmm. Oh yeah, beans off magic.

Katherine Suzette (2) 31:15

I need magic first. I'm very happy that it wasn't just a, a tool, like another marble or a machine that these guys created, but it is, like, this well-kept secret, in the North that if they have enough magic they can ride one of these things. 'Cause they made it clear that Sauven, King Sauven doesn't know that that's how they get around, and that's why Everard has to leave that night, 'cause he has to make a show of coming from Salva to get to this Joie, Joie, Joie de Vivre, I don't r- I don't know. he has to get to the event. Joie

Zinzi Brookbree 31:51

Yeah.

Katherine Suzette (2) 31:51

I like that it's a secret from Sauven. I like that Everard and Soltene were like, "You don't know what this is? Ooh, cool, we know something you don't know." and then Soltene is like, "Don't, don't you dare touch it. Don't get on it," all that kind of thing. I think Soltene has already put it together from what the mage said, that she has a lot of magic, but they don't know how much yet. They don't know how safe she'd be,

Zinzi Brookbree 32:14

"Come with me, Maggie. We'll go on a test flight.

Sage Moreaux (2) 32:17

Mm-hmm.

Zinzi Brookbree 32:17

promise it'll

Sage Moreaux (2) 32:18

the manipulation.

Katherine Suzette (2) 32:20

Yeah, I actually didn't love that. That's one of those things, like, if, if a guy were like, like IRL, real life, he's like, "Oh no, we'll just do a test drive, and then, like, maybe some dinner, and then, like, maybe some of this and that," I'd be like, "Oh, bye. Goodbye. Hello, police? Hi. Yes, red flags." So that was definitely one of those moments, but also it was attractive in the book. I was like, "Ooh, yes." IRL, though, don't get on the bird, ladies.

Zinzi Brookbree 32:48

With

Sage Moreaux (2) 32:49

that's...

Zinzi Brookbree 32:49

he's gotta try

Sage Moreaux (2) 32:51

He tried and she said no, and then he

Katherine Suzette (2) 32:55

Kind of res- I mean he,

Sage Moreaux (2) 32:56

their conversation

Katherine Suzette (2) 32:57

yeah

Sage Moreaux (2) 32:58

no again. She was like, "It's not gonna happen."

Zinzi Brookbree 33:01

I promised that I would bring you back in 20 days."

Sage Moreaux (2) 33:05

but when she said no, he agreed. he didn't like the answer, but he kind of went along with it, and I love the scene where she was, like, realizing how much she wanted him, right? And he clearly wants her too, and that was all very clear and laid out. But when he started trying to get her back on obviously she wants to get on the creature, 'cause how cool, right? She very fangirls over all the cool things that she is experiencing in this world where she had never experienced anything like that before. When Solentine was doing his knife fighting and she was like su-

Zinzi Brookbree 33:35

when he was doing the

Katherine Suzette (2) 33:36

Yes.

Zinzi Brookbree 33:37

yes, the

Katherine Suzette (2) 33:38

She's...

Zinzi Brookbree 33:38

technique."

Sage Moreaux (2) 33:40

she's like all in, but she knows she can't get on that.

Zinzi Brookbree 33:42

Mm-hmm

Sage Moreaux (2) 33:43

when

Katherine Suzette (2) 33:43

Yeah

Sage Moreaux (2) 33:44

her again, I was like, "Okay, a little too far." You really think she's gonna go for that? Like, do you not know her well enough to know that she is very clever and knows what you're

Katherine Suzette (2) 33:54

She's so curious. She loves it so much.

Zinzi Brookbree 33:55

Mm-hmm.

Katherine Suzette (2) 33:56

gonna be a way to get her...

Zinzi Brookbree 33:58

though

Katherine Suzette (2) 33:59

Right, so it...

Sage Moreaux (2) 34:02

mean, I

Katherine Suzette (2) 34:03

And

Sage Moreaux (2) 34:03

her

Katherine Suzette (2) 34:03

she trusts him, like her body trusts him at this point, as we saw after the experience with the butcher. So, but, like, I don't trust him enough to be l- to not be like, "He's manipulating you. Red flag, red flag, red flag." 'Cause, like, I, I prefer a guy who, takes the no. Like, if, if he's going to try again, there's gotta be more discussion, there's gotta be good reasoning, not just pushy, "Please, please, I have a reason. I'm gonna protect you. Come on." And I'm like, "Ugh," clearly. kinda wanted to beat him a little, a lot.

Sage Moreaux (2) 34:34

That was the moment where it was clear that he cared about her more than he cleared- cared about his own power. And I don't know if Maggie's picked that up yet, because she's always like, "Oh, he's using me. He just wants to have me as a tool in his tool belt of being able to see the future and for his own future," right, and the good of his country. And here she is. Yeah, I mean, it is, of course it's both. Of course that is, intriguing to him and desirable, but it's more than that. And I felt like that was the moment when he was pretty clear about it, 'cause he was impassioned, right? He wasn't like-

Zinzi Brookbree 35:08

as the reader, even if she's not getting it

Sage Moreaux (2) 35:12

Yeah, and he wasn't, thinking through what he was saying. He was responding in the moment,

Katherine Suzette (2) 35:16

she's still valuing what she knew from the books over what she's feeling and thinking in the plot right now with Everard. that is definitely real for her, and I think that it's really important that she hasn't been in his head as a reader as well. But, there will come a time when she recognizes that she's not just, a player on the board, but she's, actually living there, living in this. And maybe when she gets sucked back onto Earth and that she realizes she wants to come back, she needs to come back, I don't know yet. We'll figure it out

Zinzi Brookbree 35:46

to comment that her ideas of Everard and that he would take her, treat her well, but use her as a tool, use her information, that she shouldn't just climb into his bed, right? that's being reinforced by Solentine. Solentine is, has advised her, multiple times now about not getting involved romantically with Everard. it's not

Katherine Suzette (2) 36:12

Yeah

Zinzi Brookbree 36:12

own instinct from what she knows of him in the books and the character, that she's witnessed from him, but also Solentine, who is his best friend, now her cousin, advising her, and she is letting that have some weight as well

Katherine Suzette (2) 36:27

Which is fair, but he's also showing her, like in, in the moment after Diji gets the information, gives her a gift in exchange and all of that moment, Everard essentially tells Diji and the accompanying party how much he values Maggie's input and, and her choices and all of that. So he is making motions to make it look as though he wouldn't just use her, but that he would make her important and value her and give her the status and the recognition and the respect that she's, she's well worth.

Zinzi Brookbree 37:06

But Maggie's independent and she wants to earn it on her own.

Sage Moreaux (2) 37:09

if/when they finally get together as like a power couple, they're gonna have a lot of, gonna be like a lot of fight and make up, I think, sex because they're both so strong-minded and opinionated and stubborn. And like who, does he get to have the final word if they were married because he's the duke and the husband and the man and all this kind of stuff? Or, you know, like if she has the knowledge and is strong-minded as well, like where, just because she doesn't Well, now she is a member of the Demar family, but they're not as powerful as his family is, so like where does that line cross and how does that all play out? I did wanna mention something that was brought up way earlier about Solentine and Everard and how they had this big falling out in the future

Zinzi Brookbree 37:55

Mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux (2) 37:56

something that we are never clued in on what it is. but it's something very personal about like Solentine would do anything for his family and Everard would do anything for his, his dukedom. And I'm wondering if it's Maggie, and I'm really wondering how were the books written? They were written in the future but somehow brought to Maggie where she's now oh, this is just still so fascinating. I can't wait to hear how it is explained, because I've put so much time thinking about it. But I'm wondering if that could be, now she's intricately involved in the, their relationship, and she's Solentine's family and she's Everard's, you know, side piece or whatever you wanna call her. and could that be the, the thing that breaks them is now Maggie? But she was never in the books, so I don't know. it,

Zinzi Brookbree 38:44

Yeah.

Sage Moreaux (2) 38:45

interested to see how her-

Zinzi Brookbree 38:47

from that scene is that, It's in book two of the two books that she read, and, happens during the Crimson Empire invasion Everard does not send troops to reinforce, and to aid wherever the Demars are located, and it eventually results in the death of Izarn, Demar, which is Solentine's father.

Sage Moreaux (2) 39:12

Okay

Katherine Suzette (2) 39:13

Is Everard sick at the time that he doesn't send the troops?

Zinzi Brookbree 39:18

Oh,

Katherine Suzette (2) 39:19

Because his country is weakened because he's been poisoned and he's dealing with

Zinzi Brookbree 39:23

in

Katherine Suzette (2) 39:24

effect of that

Sage Moreaux (2) 39:24

Mm-hmm.

Zinzi Brookbree 39:25

that happens for... I'm trying to think of the timeline

Katherine Suzette (2) 39:28

off troops when he's not capable makes sense because, he couldn't protect Silva as well if he gave up some of his force

Zinzi Brookbree 39:36

it's a good question. I'd have to look at the timeline of that again. Thanks for bringing that up

Katherine Suzette (2) 39:41

Mei

Zinzi Brookbree 39:42

moving along to another significant moment is, not so much the, the being arrested, although now Maggie knows, right, that Hreban is sniffing around her trail, doesn't necessarily know her name, doesn't have a lot of information, and then we have the note that we talked about that arrived that, triggered Lord Bellen to come to the rescue, and what did you guys think of this whole interaction between Maggie and Lord Bellen? How much of a flirt he is, how, like, didn't ask her permission before putting her on a horse, took him to the, took her to the citadel instead of taking her home. Again, just, well, this is

Katherine Suzette (2) 40:21

I felt feelings

Zinzi Brookbree 40:22

those who cannot see, Katherine is giving Lord Bellen the finger.

Sage Moreaux (2) 40:28

Yeah. I did not like him.

Zinzi Brookbree 40:31

He's flirty, he's courteous. Maggie even says, "Oh, this would

Katherine Suzette (2) 40:35

And yeah, but

Sage Moreaux (2) 40:37

more the first time they met, but this time he's being so manipulative and it's unclear what his reasoning. Like, what is it that he wants from her? It's very unclear

Katherine Suzette (2) 40:48

just the way that he puts her up on this horse with no warning. He doesn't wait for her acquiescence. he asks kind of, but then, like, lifts her up without an answer, and then expects her to,

Zinzi Brookbree 40:59

asking

Katherine Suzette (2) 41:00

out. Right, but, like, framing a question or telling somebody but framing it as a question, it just, it, it isn't okay. In that moment, I was like, "Her safety is at risk." He's putting her on a fucking war horse. I don't care if it obeys him right now. Like, there was, there was no, like, warning, "I am going to put you on the horse, and you are going to have to sit this way, and also I will take care of you. Don't worry about anything else. it, there was no preparation, and, I wouldn't consider myself a true horsewoman, but I take care of horses day in and day out. It's scary. Oh my goodness, yes, and that too. give a mouse a flipping cookie. she didn't even give him a cookie. She gave him a crumb when they very first met, and then he's taking advantage 'cause he's like, "Oh, look at this. I came in. I rescued you. Aren't you happy?" And then he's like, "Oh, see, you wanted something out of that situation, didn't you? Look here, I actually have that information. aren't you happy?" And I feel like it's one of those big dick energy syndrome-type things, and he, he knows he's handsome. He knows he's got all this stuff. That's why he uses his charm as a weapon like this, and women are supposed to fawn over this, and I have an issue with this IRL too. Like, I have been flirted with this this way. I don't know a woman who hasn't been flirted with in this way, where you just give the mouse a cookie, and he takes, and he takes, and he manipulates, and he asks for more, and he does something without warning that you're supposed to be like, "Oh, okay, that was kind of cool. I feel kind of cool up here on the horse. This is kind of awesome," instead of being mad about how it went down. And I'm like, that, that's not okay. Nope, not okay. so I don't even know if Bellan is, is Bellan. this may be another situation in which there, she doesn't know him as a character, so what if he's... He's either somebody else, or he's definitely trying to get something else out of her. So I don't know what he wants from her, but I am uncomfortable with all of this. Ladies, do not get on the horse

Zinzi Brookbree 43:01

I feel like that should be a sticker, ladies, do not get on the war

Katherine Suzette (2) 43:07

Yeah. Well, and guys, like, they roll up in their sports car and they're like, "Ooh, isn't it so cool?" And you, you're supposed to... I've, you know, guys rolled up in a sports car into the driveway, and he's like, "I brought my nice car," and you're, like, supposed to go along with more than you agreed to because they brought the nice car. Like, reward, you get more of my time. You get to take more from me. I'm gonna stay in the castle. I'm gonna come to tea. I'll be in your home, in your place. He sends off the maid. He sends Clover away. She's alone. Oh, I have so many issues with all of this

Sage Moreaux (2) 43:44

When he came in and rescued her, reminds me of the, the kind of like needy, did I call it earlier? Like, the damsel in distress, right? That Everard doesn't, I don't think wants Maggie to be, right? He wants her to be a strong-minded woman, whereas Belan is very much treating

Zinzi Brookbree 44:03

that

Sage Moreaux (2) 44:04

at all, and Belan is very much like, "Aren't you You know, and Maggie kind of plays into it very manipulatively, like, "Okay, I'm gonna go along with this. I see

Katherine Suzette (2) 44:12

She plays damsel to figure it out,

Sage Moreaux (2) 44:14

that, he's not gonna hear no, and I'm gonna keep going with it to see what I can get out of it," and she's being very thoughtful and logical about it, as she usually is. but if she could, if she, if she hadn't had the experience of dying and coming back, she'd probably be a little more cautious with some of these situations.

Zinzi Brookbree 44:30

Yeah.

Sage Moreaux (2) 44:31

knowing that she can come back does, I mean, obviously she doesn't wanna go through that trauma again, but she does feel a little more confident, a little more empowered, a little more capable of taking care of herself against these like, giant knights that are clearly

Katherine Suzette (2) 44:45

yeah

Sage Moreaux (2) 44:45

strong and powerful physically and in terms of like, their connections in the city. so he like, comes in and rescues her, and it just, it, I agree with Katherine, it's like all red flags to me, even though he's attractive. He's like,

Zinzi Brookbree 45:04

Mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux (2) 45:05

right? He's like, blonde and strong and big and all these like,

Zinzi Brookbree 45:10

He's a

Sage Moreaux (2) 45:11

physically attractive things

Zinzi Brookbree 45:12

to how Everard treats her

Sage Moreaux (2) 45:17

Yeah. I'm all day Shadow Daddy. Thank you

Katherine Suzette (2) 45:22

Well, I'm, I'm all Everard now that, like, we know who he is. His secret, his main secret is out on the table. He's being himself now. Even if he hasn't laid all cards on the table, he's being himself with, with Maggie, and I appreciate that. But another note about how Belard, Bel- Bellow, whatever, treated Maggie, Bellan, thank you, is that IRL or in books, there are often situations similar to this where there is not a better, safer option than to play into it and go along, say what the guy needs to hear, do what he needs you to do, until there is an opportunity to get out of that situation. Now, thankfully, it doesn't seem like Bellan wanted to cause harm, but he would've kept her, but then something came up and he let her go. All of that is good.

Zinzi Brookbree 46:16

supposed to be honorable

Katherine Suzette (2) 46:19

And I think that he is currently being honorable because it does not, conflict with what he really needs out of her. I think that if he really knew all of her secret, and not just that she's a really important player on the board, I think that his honor would only go up to a point

Zinzi Brookbree 46:35

in that tower knew

Katherine Suzette (2) 46:37

Yes. And then, then his loyalty would be more important than his honor, in this situation. H- her safety would not mean as much as the information that she could give him. but I do understand that in this situation, sometimes it is important for the character to go along with it for their safety, or in this case, because Maggie thought that she could learn more from him now. Like, "Okay, go along with the plot, see what I can learn from him instead." And she did

Sage Moreaux (2) 47:05

I have something else to say about the moment with Bellan because when she showed up, when he, after he put her on his horse, which, yeah, agree, don't get on the horse, they ended up at the citadel And I do wonder if he is working alone or if he's under orders from Arval, who is one of the head knights and is a, like, key player in the books, and he is at that same citadel. So I don't know, I think we'll get more about this, knight order or whatever it is at the citadel with Arval and Bellan maybe being connected. But when they got there, that's when the fire, when the asteroid was, flying towards Kair Toren and the mage let out this huge ball of fire or whatever to stop it, and that was just awesome. Like, I was there in that situation and my, like, experience of the mage was that he was blasting, using his magic to blast meteors out of the sky, I would've been so fan-girling on that. Like, I don't

Katherine Suzette (2) 48:09

Yes

Sage Moreaux (2) 48:10

You know, since he calls him dumbass, I don't know what he will be, and I think he's coming really soon. Like, I think while Everard and Solentine are out of town, this confrontation before the ball, the confrontation with the mage is gonna happen. That's my theory.

Katherine Suzette (2) 48:24

Yeah, it makes sense. Maggie even said later on that she's going head-to-head with the the head of the mages, so

Sage Moreaux (2) 48:32

and that she didn't want Everard or Solentine to know because they'd try and stop her.

Katherine Suzette (2) 48:36

Yeah.

Sage Moreaux (2) 48:36

But I think that this will come to a head, and I'm really wondering... So first of all, my, one of my theories is that she might die. I'm counting five deaths in this book, and I'm, we're up to three. So I really need two more to happen, which feels like a stretch.

Katherine Suzette (2) 48:51

I think at least another, another death. At least one more, if not more than that. I think seven was a number we floated in our first episode. so I don't know, that would be a lot of deaths in quick succession in this, like, final, like, 20, 25% of the book, but, a minimum of one more

Sage Moreaux (2) 49:09

she went through those first two deaths pretty, like, easily, and they, not that they were painless, but compared to the way The Butcher devastated her body and the amount of recovery that coming back to life from that took,

Zinzi Brookbree 49:22

Perfect

Sage Moreaux (2) 49:22

of her trauma, you would need to spend a little more time on the page with the ne- next death.

Zinzi Brookbree 49:27

he's

Sage Moreaux (2) 49:27

So having even more than one after this feels like it would be a lot. anyways, I'm very excited to meet this,

Zinzi Brookbree 49:36

have

Sage Moreaux (2) 49:37

Damas character to see what his whole deal is.

Katherine Suzette (2) 49:41

I don't think that Dom- Domias, Dom, is, like, our main villain character.

Zinzi Brookbree 49:47

Dameas

Katherine Suzette (2) 49:49

yeah. But he, he's a side quest. he's another distraction, and like for Maggie, he's a player on the board and something to navigate through in order to achieve her final goal. But I kinda think that as opposed to something like the Butcher, he's not a true villain character. I think that he's eccentric, and I think we're gonna learn something that makes him an ally, eventually. But maybe not. I don't know.

Sage Moreaux (2) 50:13

I would love, her to turn him into an ally, like use her magic to, or

Katherine Suzette (2) 50:18

Teacher. Oh, he's our mentor. Mentor has been introduced

Sage Moreaux (2) 50:25

If I was Maggie, I'd be like, Yes, we wanna get the key mage on board." Like, that's a power player and we wanna get him, and there was a few other people that she mentioned early on in the book as being different power players, but he was definitely a big one. And so like that, she was scared of him, like she didn't Early, when she, before she knew she could die and when she was still like a beggar woman, she was like, "I don't wanna tussle with that at all." But now that she's empowered, she knows that she has magic

Zinzi Brookbree 50:52

then have her come back and then dissect her again, 'cause he likes to

Sage Moreaux (2) 50:56

Yeah. Right. So, but her knowledge piece, but maybe he would try and do that with her, keep her up in that tower. and maybe that is what's gonna happen. Maybe she's gonna end up in that tower with both of her, her cousin, her favorite cousin, and her lord protector gone, you know? And then Bellen can come rescue her again.

Zinzi Brookbree 51:18

We shall see

Sage Moreaux (2) 51:19

Throw her back on that horse

Zinzi Brookbree 51:21

Yep. On to chapter 36, pretty much all that happens is, Will comes home after a bar fight and tells Maggie the butcher's name and story, right? So look, now she knows what name to look for on the contracts, and how he kinda knew what he knew and why he was so obsessed with the knights. then Will tells her that he and Lute have decided that their loyalties lie with Maggie, even though Gort's lies with Everard. They

Sage Moreaux (2) 51:55

Love that

Zinzi Brookbree 51:56

think different things thought that

Katherine Suzette (2) 51:57

Yeah.

Zinzi Brookbree 51:57

the betrayal was not cool. and then an arrow arrives with an invitation to the Jaduar ball, feast, extravaganza, that now Clover is in a panic to get Maggie prepared for, because she has to go, because now she's a Demar, she's been sent an invitation, so she's gotta, she's gotta show up and represent the family. Right? Like, that's, that's what happens in that chapter

Sage Moreaux (2) 52:31

I'm so excited for this ball. Balls are like, dancing and all of the social, the ball social dynamic that Right, and presumably she will have a hot dance with Evrard. That's gonna be my guess. He's gonna show up, right? Like, I wanted to talk about this before. She mentioned that he's leaving, and when he comes back, he's gonna come back as his true self. He's not gonna be able to hang out with her in her house. presumably, they're gonna meet for the first time after that

Zinzi Brookbree 52:58

public. Mm-hmm

Katherine Suzette (2) 53:01

In public, yeah

Sage Moreaux (2) 53:03

fitted up, like, in his full Evrard duke, sleepless duke like she thinks she's fallen now. When he's putting that out there, I bet that she's gonna find that very attractive.

Katherine Suzette (2) 53:13

I would

Sage Moreaux (2) 53:13

but

Zinzi Brookbree 53:14

We shall see

Sage Moreaux (2) 53:15

I loved the whole like, "We only have 15 days, and we gotta get a ballgown ready and teach you all the dance." Like, that's very fun for me.

Zinzi Brookbree 53:22

Dinner etiquette, dancing

Sage Moreaux (2) 53:24

yeah. So I see the ball as being one of the big, set pieces at the end of the book. And I love a ball for, the outfits and the dancing and the visual glamour of it, but I also love it for the way that it's used in society as a, public, a political and social dynamic event where there's all this, gossiping and manipulation and things that are happening under the surface of the, soiree. So I'm excited for that as a big, a big set piece

Katherine Suzette (2) 53:52

the fact that Maggie's being called is strange and interesting because we don't know why, and I'm wondering again, is this, is this Silverin, the priest? Golden eyes.

Zinzi Brookbree 54:05

He's not a priest. the reason I have to point this out is because the priests have an entire different branch of magic than those who use bloodline magic,

Katherine Suzette (2) 54:16

Hmm

Zinzi Brookbree 54:17

those who are in the mage tower, right? Like, so far there has not been much to do with the priests in the book. and it is different and it is separate, and I don't want you to get confused.

Sage Moreaux (2) 54:30

There hasn't even been talk about

Katherine Suzette (2) 54:32

Yeah, I'm always confused

Sage Moreaux (2) 54:33

or religion at all,

Zinzi Brookbree 54:35

I'm forgetting now. If it's a bunch of different gods, or if it's one god, but then that's been split down into different aspects of

Sage Moreaux (2) 54:44

yes.

Zinzi Brookbree 54:45

yeah, so they're, they... 'Cause even, Solentine, I think at, or a couple of the times they've done cursing, right, as thank the aspects or thank the divine, right?

Sage Moreaux (2) 54:55

Okay

Zinzi Brookbree 54:56

worshiped, a version of the aspects that was, a hostess goddess or something.

Sage Moreaux (2) 55:04

Yes, I remember that now

Zinzi Brookbree 55:05

different mentions, yeah, there's been a couple different mentions of the different aspects, which I think is a really cool concept for, you know, because there's so much, Poseidon is the god of the sea or whatever version of a sea, right? Like, just say the aspect of the ocean, right? Like, that's who you wanna worship. That's kind of a cool way to,

Sage Moreaux (2) 55:24

Like all the faces of the divine

Zinzi Brookbree 55:26

what you wanna worship

Sage Moreaux (2) 55:28

Okay, so I take it back, but it hasn't been heavy in the story, but it has been sprinkled in there. Like, everything is so nicely sprinkled in. I do have a lot of predictions again,

Zinzi Brookbree 55:40

we can head into predictions

Sage Moreaux (2) 55:42

the gift that Digi gave Maggie in exchange

Zinzi Brookbree 55:46

Stone of

Sage Moreaux (2) 55:47

the claw, the stone, and, like, who the heck is she gonna use that on? You squeeze it, and it makes Maggie appear like the person's most beloved human. Yeah.

Zinzi Brookbree 55:57

for about two minutes, and they hear

Katherine Suzette (2) 55:59

40 breaths

Sage Moreaux (2) 56:00

And spill all their secrets to you somehow, I guess, as part of the magic, So I'm like, is she gonna use it on Everard?

Zinzi Brookbree 56:08

Oh

Sage Moreaux (2) 56:08

a fun

Katherine Suzette (2) 56:09

I don't know if she'll use Hmm

Sage Moreaux (2) 56:10

I don't, I kinda don't think she will, but that would be a nice bit on the romance subplot. I imagine she's clever enough to save it for something. it won't come out till

Katherine Suzette (2) 56:20

How about Sauven?

Sage Moreaux (2) 56:20

or three.

Katherine Suzette (2) 56:22

What if she learns more about her history from Kair Toren, her familial bloodline, when she thinks she knows enough to embody whatever this person is, in front of Sauven or somebody at the ball, and she learns, something that she never expected to learn, and that's what trips her up, and then Everard comes in and saves the day, wraps her into a dance, or gets her out of the room, or whatever. I could see that being key. But yeah, this was one of my predictions too, that, absolutely, clearly, this, Stone of Remembrance is going to be used.

Zinzi Brookbree 56:54

The Spellshop's

Katherine Suzette (2) 56:56

So

Zinzi Brookbree 56:56

and

Katherine Suzette (2) 56:56

I just don't know when or exactly how, but she's going to use it to get information. I think she might get information she's not expecting, and it could be in front of Sauven, it could be in front of a whole group of people, and then they're all like, "Wait, what did she do? What trick did she pull?" 'cause theoretically, to other people, she looks like herself. I don't know, maybe it's Keir, Kieran, the, the prince. maybe it is Dumas.

Zinzi Brookbree 57:19

Heel is the name of the

Katherine Suzette (2) 57:21

Kill

Sage Moreaux (2) 57:23

Yeah, Presumably, and then there's the other prince too. Presumably she's gonna meet them all at the, at the ball. she said that the Jarre, Jarre de Vivre, was gonna happen. It happened in the books, but it happened later, right?

Zinzi Brookbree 57:38

Yes.

Sage Moreaux (2) 57:38

the timeline, but it still happened, but she didn't say anything about what happened at that event, except I guess Everard didn't go because he was ill from the poisoning.

Katherine Suzette (2) 57:47

Yeah.

Sage Moreaux (2) 57:47

that, so already things are different, but other... Well, we don't know if he's gonna be poisoned or not. I'm gonna say not, now that she's so emphatically warned him

Katherine Suzette (2) 57:57

Yeah. Speaking of the Jour d'Vivre, I had another prediction about this event, and that is obviously Everard's gonna be there. if he makes it back safe and unpoisoned, Maggie has promised him a kiss, and which he manipulated her into, by the way.

Zinzi Brookbree 58:14

She didn't have to.

Katherine Suzette (2) 58:16

no, but he-

Zinzi Brookbree 58:17

He asked for one, and then she offered. It was not a manipulation. She didn't have to promise that,

Katherine Suzette (2) 58:23

All right, all right.

Zinzi Brookbree 58:24

in

Katherine Suzette (2) 58:24

I'm okay with this kiss. Anyway, she owes him one when he arrives back. I don't know if this is gonna occur in a place where other people see them, or, like, he uses this as a way to show her status with him. I don't know if her history that Everard made up about her being a childhood friend is going to impact how he goes about treating her at this event. But I do think that the kiss is going to occur somewhere in the vicinity of this event, whether it's, like, public or it's private, and they will, there will be a lot of feelings to deal with during this event, both political and emotional.

Zinzi Brookbree 59:04

We

Sage Moreaux (2) 59:05

Can't wait. Can't wait. I fully believe that Maggie will get on one of these jaz- Drezmur

Katherine Suzette (2) 59:11

Absolutely.

Zinzi Brookbree 59:12

Drezmer Drezmur

Sage Moreaux (2) 59:14

thank you. And what if Everett is poisoned and she needs to, like, rush to his rescue and she climbs on one? That would be fun. But I Maybe book two.

Katherine Suzette (2) 59:24

Yeah, I don't know. in my head, I don't know if she knows how to ride it when she gets on. I don't know if she has- knows how to feed it her magic or if it just feeds off of her, either. So I don't know how much danger she's going to actually be in when she gets on it, and I don't know who teaches her how to do it. But yeah, I agree, she's gonna, she's gonna get on this creature

Zinzi Brookbree 59:44

That said, let's start finding out. Your homework for the next episode is to read chapters 37 through 39. Outside this podcast, you can find us at Book Dragon Ink, as well as, on Substack with weekly Zoom write-ins with me at Write With Me Zinzi Bree. we'd love for you to check those out, and you can find the link in the show notes. We also have our podcast newsletter on Substack as a way you can support us directly. Thank you to our subscribers who are already doing so, particularly Ria Nancoo, who's been with us so far all this time.

Katherine Suzette (2) 1:00:17

We'd love to hear from you in the comments section, so please let us know what you think. Give us those comments, corrections, theories, and predictions, all those things below. We do read them. Zinzi reads them, and then she feeds us the ones that are good for us to think about and to comment on in turn as well. thank you also...

Sage Moreaux (2) 1:00:33

all also. So no spoilers please.

Katherine Suzette (2) 1:00:37

Yes, it's no spoilers for Sage.

Sage Moreaux (2) 1:00:39

scan them, yeah

Zinzi Brookbree 1:00:40

Spotify is just me, Zinzi, if it's on YouTube, Sai's just seeing them

Sage Moreaux (2) 1:00:45

Yeah, yep. That's true

Katherine Suzette (2) 1:00:46

If you are loving this read-along, a great way for you to support us that isn't monetary is to leave us a good review or to leave us some comments, give us some traction. It's great for these little indie podcasts, and we really appreciate it. So thank you for tuning in. as Everard says to Solentine, "For the record, you give me too little credit. I would take great care of your heart, Sol." As Maggie says to Bellan, "My lord, I think you're the man my mother warned me about."

Zinzi Brookbree 1:01:13

you so much for listening. We'll catch you next time

Sage Moreaux (2) 1:01:17

Bye

Katherine Suzette (2) 1:01:17

Bye

Zinzi Brookbree 1:01:25

Fuck. My microphone was off. Can you hear me now? I'm a Barbie girl in a Bar- I don't know why that song popped into my head.

Katherine Suzette (2) 1:01:35

It's fantastic

Zinzi Brookbree 1:01:37

being plastic. Galiene needs a favor, while Maggie needs a mage. I'm not gonna do that

Katherine Suzette (2) 1:01:45

And then the formal plan doesn't fit, but you get to Maggie learns to stab. DG visits for info. Solentine and Everwise.

Zinzi Brookbree 1:01:54

Wippers

Katherine Suzette (2) 1:01:55

been traveling so fast. No.

Zinzi Brookbree 1:01:57

Join Oh, my God, I just forgot our names. I was like, I'm doing so good, I haven't looked at the script once. I don't know who we are. soul left my body. Oh. Join Nope. Join-

Katherine Suzette (2) 1:02:13

Somebody send us coffee, please. More, all of us. Thank you.

Sage Moreaux (2) 1:02:19

good tea

Katherine Suzette (2) 1:02:20

Yes, tea. I vote tea.

Zinzi Brookbree 1:02:22

Uh.

Katherine Suzette (2) 1:02:23

teas