S02 EP06. Be The Anchor: What Leaders Owe Their People During Times of Change

What happens after the change memo goes out? After the reorg. After the AI rollout. After the town hall.

Most organizations put enormous energy into that one moment. But what they truly miss is everything that comes after.

In this episode of Elevate, host Joy Fajardo sits down with Jessica Smith, Chief People Officer at Reframing HR, to explore what leaders consistently get wrong about change communication and what it actually takes to help employees recover, reconnect, and perform again.

Jess brings a rare combination of perspectives to this conversation. She's led transformation at scale inside companies like Amazon and Meta, experienced a layoff herself, and now dedicates her work to what happens after the disruption. That lived experience shapes everything she shares here.

Together, Joy and Jess explore the signs that change hasn't landed yet, the ANCHOR framework Jess uses to help organizations re-stabilize after big transitions, why middle managers are the most underused communication channel in any change plan, and why the leaders people will remember most from the AI era aren't the ones with the best strategy decks.

If you're rolling out a new tool, navigating a reorg, or just trying to keep your team grounded when everything feels uncertain, this episode will leave you with something real to take back to work tomorrow. 

__________________________

Want to understand how your own employee experience stacks up?
Book Your FREE Personalized EX Assessment

Explore Reframing HR: https://www.reframinghr.com/ 

STAY CONNECTED!
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/linezero/
Website: https://www.linezero.com/resources/podcast

=============================

Music: Ramaramaray by Aiyo | Get Up on That Horse by spring gang 
Via Epidemic Sound

©  2026 LineZero

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Elevate, a podcast where we sit down with the women shaping workplace culture at some of the biggest names in the business. These are the leaders navigating change, putting people first, and keeping teams connected and engaged every single day. Elevate is brought to you by Line Zero, a global employee experienced consultancy firm that partners with organizations to create connected workplaces. Tune in to learn how today's leaders are breaking barriers and building cultures where employees truly thrive.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

Hey everyone, welcome back to Elevate. I am your host, Joy Fahardo, and I've been looking forward to this one because today we are unpacking something every organization goes through, which is change, and more importantly, how people actually experience it. My guest is Jessica Smith. She is the Chief People Officer at Reframing HR, and she has one of those career paths that's gonna make you pause and pay attention. She started out studying finance at Hampton University and later earned her MBA at IESE Business School in Barcelona. From there, she moved into people leadership and ended up working inside someone very fast, growing organization. Her background includes work connected to companies like Amazon, AWS, and Meta, where she focused on things like early career programs, talent strategy, and employee experience at significant scale. But there's another part of her story that I think a lot of people listening will relate to. At one point in her career, Jessica experienced a layoff. More of that later, but today in her role at Reframing HR, her focus is on what happens after the transformation memo goes out. After that AI rollout, after the re-org. How do leaders actually help people recover from change, reconnect to their work, and perform again? With that, let's welcome Jessica. Hey Jess, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

Thanks so much, Joy. Thanks for having me today. I'm excited to be here.

SPEAKER_02 2:00

We are excited to have you here too. Now, before we dive in, I want people to understand where your lens comes from. Because when you look at your background, you've got finance, HR, big tech, and now wellness. Those could seem like totally different worlds, but I want to know what's the one thread that connects all of it for you.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

Yeah, so for me, it's people joy. Like you said, I started my career in finance. I went into banking on the day that Lehman Brothers crashed and the financial stock market was crashing as well. And so I spent two years in finance, probably in indefinitely within my time, one of the most stressful times. And so after things kind of stabilized, I told the bank, hey, I'm looking for kind of a different purpose. I'm not sure. I wasn't sure that finance and and helping people maintain wealth was really the impact that I wanted to make. And so the bank said, Oh, you just need a break, you need sabbatical, go rest and come back in a year, and then let's do it again. So I actually moved back to Barcelona. I was in living in London's time, moved back to Barcelona. Um, and actually that's where my first AR HR role started, which was in recruiting. And so making my first offer in recruiting to someone, having them being able to experience really a life change, right? Because for all of us, changing jobs or schools is life changing and feeling that impact that I was making on them, their families, and in some cases, generations to come, I decided that that kind of was the kind of impact I wanted to make was all about people. And so I've threaded that through really all my roles in finance, um in big tech and bringing that real people data lens um into things. And then wellness really is how I can use and every day and stabilize, not only keep myself stable, but also bring that lens into the workforce to help people as they're going through change.

SPEAKER_02 3:56

Amazing. That explains a lot about how you actually approach things right now. Anyway, as mentioned, when you started in finance and then moved into people. I'm curious what you carry over from that world, from the finance world, because I think a lot of employee experience and also internal comms leaders, they struggle with getting a seat at a table. You know, they know their work matters, but translating it into the language that executives respond to is a whole different skill. How does that finance background show up when you're you're making, say, for example, a case for something?

SPEAKER_01 4:32

Yeah, definitely I look at everything with a data focused lens. And then having that finance background really helps to then elevate quickly my business acumen on topic. So what I will do, especially if I'm trying to get buy-in for a project or get funding for something, what I will do is think about what's the metric, the important number for the people that I'm talking to. And so based on what they care about, then I will frame all the impact of that work um into data points that relate to areas that they care about, right? So if it's the sales team, I'm thinking about how is the thing I'm proposing, how is that going to impact revenue? If it's finance, I'm thinking about how is the thing I'm suggesting going to cut cost. And so using what I know about finance to then target and communicate in a way to people that they can understand and that they care about.

SPEAKER_02 5:32

I love that. It's like adjust the language based on who you're talking with. And I think generally that's just how communication works. It's not what's working for the person speaking, but what's working for the person receiving the message as a good communicator as well, not just in finance, but as a good communicator, right? You have to adjust your style depending on your receivers. I love that exactly. Now, another thing that I that really stood out to me is your builder mentality, right? Your Mayo mentioned standing up talent intelligence work, using analytics to plan for the future workforce. And I know a lot of our listeners are in that same mode. They are trying to build something from scratch or they're trying to fix something that's not working. Can you walk us through one example? What's, you know, what did you build first and what changed for employees on the other end of it?

SPEAKER_01 6:27

Yeah, absolutely. I'll talk about town intelligence at Amazon. Um, Amazon and this time, we needed to hire at Amazon.com around 40,000 people a year. Um, and that is manager and above. And so we needed to hire those people to be able to run all of the various types of warehouses that we have at Amazon. And so that's a lot of people, right? A lot of discipline in perspective. There are lots of companies that are the size 40,000. And this was just in operations at Amazon. Um, and so to make it more challenging, on top of that, the person that can be an area manager in a warehouse, um, the background of that person varies, right? So that leader can come from lots of different places. He needs someone that is analytical, but that can lead different kinds of people, right? People all the way from, you know, someone in their first job is 16, all the way through people that have have been working for years. And so it's difficult to pinpoint what's the one profile, right? That because there are many successful profiles in that, in that area. So essentially my challenge was how do we solve for that, right? And how do we speed up recruiting when you need to hire 40,000 people, which a lot a lot of times we were doing active source sourcing for. And so I built out what talent intelligence, which essentially aggregated different data points from different sources and then created a dashboard on top of that, a user interface that then the recruiting team could then use essentially market research to help to then field their searches, which will speed them up. And so this tool that I launched and the team, we saved thousands of hours a year and search time. And so if you think about thousands of hours, right, across a recruiting team that needs to hire 40,000 people, what we really were able to do is in many cases, and in all cases, of course, staff the building on time, right? So your Amazon warehouse near you opens on time or potentially early. Um, and then and to put that in real life terms, right? Now that we've got, for me, I'm live in Austin. Sat 2 is our closest, biggest Amazon building here. And that means I can get same-day service on my Amazon order. So all of that work impacts, of course, our internal employee population, but also all of you who are customers of Amazon. That's so you're welcome, Joy. You can just thank me for that order. She ordered this morning that's coming today.

SPEAKER_02 8:53

I'm curious, and I know the listeners are too, but you said you build it. Like what tool? How did you start? We are receiving all the benefits, but I know that it goes through a process. Can you walk us through a bit there?

SPEAKER_01 9:09

Yeah, sure. Use uh, I call them the five Rs to solve any problem. And so the first thing is I focus on the result. So what is the result, the business result that we're trying to achieve, right? So in this case, it would be, you know, launch the Amazon warehouse at this amount of time, right? We need this amount of people to do that. And then focus on what's the reality. And so then that means I'm looking for what's the current state? How do we currently, how are we doing it today? Right now, doing all that to make sure we are actually solving for the right problem. The third one is root cause. So then I'm looking for, okay, if this is how we're doing it, why is it does that exist? Why we have been doing this way to better understand the the history and then again make sure we're laser focused on the right problem to then solve and get to the result. Finally, the roadmap. So then once you figure out what's the root cause, you can look back and be like, okay, now let's put those, the sequencing of that together and figure out the final artist rhythm, how you're gonna keep communicating. So it's really about going through that diagnostic process so you can make sure you got the right problem that you're solving for. And then once you got the problem, then you can start to experiment, is what we did with how to solve it. Um, and so in our particular case, we use Salesforce at the core to build the tool on top of. But we went through different iterations of that before we got to that part. So experimentation is definitely key.

SPEAKER_02 10:34

Everyone sees and appreciates the polished version, but you know, no one really talks about the messy middle and what how you explain it, but super systematic. I love how you frame that. Okay, so let's get into the thing that I think every leader is listening is dealing with right now, which is change. As we know, change is constant and AI is accelerating everything. And the people responsible for communicating all of that to employees are unfortunately, they're often the last ones in the room when decisions get made. So, from your perspective, when companies go through big changes, whether it's AI or reorg or a new technology, what do they consistently get wrong about how they communicate it?

SPEAKER_01 11:20

Yeah, what I see is the thing that typically is wrong is what happens after. So there's a lot of energy that's put into a communication plan when you're communicating a bit change. And many times that plan has been thought through a billion times. But what a lot of times gets missed is okay, we got through what we call communication day, so C Day, but what happens C day plus one, plus two, plus three, plus three, plus sixty, plus ninety. And because there's no solid communication plan for 30, 60, 90 post that change, sometimes what can happen is that employees can then actually have we've made the change process-wise and system-wise, but process and systems change faster than people. And so our employee population may not have caught up. And so that can create a lot of negative energy. And negative energy can convert to impacts on productivity, meaning that the people you still have in the business who are still working to create, you know, to continue the productivity going, could be impacted still. Even though they're not their jobs are not impacted, they're emotionally impacted, which is impacting the productivity.

SPEAKER_02 12:36

Yeah, I I see that a lot happening, unfortunately. And it's almost like employees, even though like they hear it, but they it's not like you need some time to marinate it before it really sinks in, right? It's uncomfortable, but it's very true. Now, what what's a sign the org is actually pushing change communication too fast?

SPEAKER_01 12:58

Yeah, I would say to know if a change has landed or not landed. I'll use this metaphor of a teenager, right? So I have a teenager at home. And you know, I'm constantly giving changing and giving her feedback. And how do I know when she is mad, right? Well, that same day, she's getting mad every day. But the next morning, I know she's has moved on that change has set in with her because the next morning in the car, going to school, she's fine, right? Her attitude is back to normal. She's singing, we're talking, and there's no kind of energy there. When whatever change I gave her didn't go through, then she is in the car the next day. She her energy is definitely negative. She is being mean to her brother, she is snappy to me. She is creating an environment where she's complaining all the time. That complaining starts to impact other people in the family, and the whole house becomes in a bad mood. And then it's clear that there's still something there. And that's very similar symptoms to what I see in an organization, right? When the change hasn't settled and people haven't adapted, or maybe they've adapted the process, but they haven't emotionally connected to that change and moved on, felt anchored. We see that people get negative. They start complaining to each other, they start pointing fingers, they create an environment that becomes negative around them and the energy is off. And that same thing happens, right? Uh, and that comes, and that's where you can start to see the productivity to be impacted. And people doing things like that's where that quiet quitting comes, right? And now they're coming to work, but they're not actually working. And so those are really the signs. And and the big, the one of the most important groups of people in the change is those that middle management layer, right? Because it's the middle managers that are in touch every single day with most of the employees around the business. And so the middle managers have to be bought into the change and taken on the journey. So, what I recommend is that after a big change, you've got in that communication plan definite connection points with the middle managers. First, to listen, listen for that teenage mood, right? That I was talking about before, but not only to listen, but then also to keep communicating to them, keep sharing information that's coming, making sure they're on board, making sure they believe in what's happening and they understand the vision because it's those people that are connected closest to the employee, which creates the culture, right? So ultimately the culture that's created the people around you and your manager is a big part of that. And so making sure that middle middle manager layer um is on board is key.

SPEAKER_02 15:38

Amazing. Folks, look out for the teenage attitude for whatever is being that metaphor a lot. It's easy to remember, especially for us with kids. I don't have a teenager, but you know, it's very easy to remember that when change communication doesn't land well, it's gonna affect the person's mood, as Jess mentioned. It's gonna affect their productivity and how they interact with the people around them too. So thank you so much for sharing that with us, Jess. Now I want to shift gears for a second because this is the part of your story that really got me. And I think it's going to hit home for anyone who's been on the receiving end of a company transformation. You've talked publicly about being laid off, and instead of pulling back, you launched Zumba Fitness ATX and created power of joy for other people going through layoffs. For anyone listening who's experienced that or who's been the person responsible for communicating a layoff to employees, what did going through it yourself teach you about how companies should handle those kinds of moments?

SPEAKER_01 16:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:46

I'm glad you brought us up, Joyce.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

So back in 2003, uh had a huge layoff, right? So meta-laid off, 10,000 people throughout the organization. The strategy shifted. We like many companies that overhired during COVID, made a big correction. And I happen to be a part of that, right? And so there are two lenses definitely, which I look at this from, right? Than the personal one and from the corporation. I'll start with the corporation one first, right? Because as a chief people officer, right, uh transparently I've I've had to light people off, right? So that has that's definitely part of our role. Not the whole role, right, but it's definitely one part. And so having it given that that's happened to me, it impacts the way that when I need to roll out a change of that type, that I um that I act, right? And how I handle it and manage it. First, I obsess over the employees. Obsess, meaning I think through every single detail, every single person, every person's been thought through. I'm thinking about how someone might react. Will they be emotional? Will they not? If they're emotional, what will we do in that moment? How should we be training managers based on what could happen? How can we support the employee post being told that they've been lay off? Is there a way we can create support for them to find new jobs? What can we do? And then obsess over every detail because it's still a human at the end of it. And so I even if it's not the best news you want to hear, I want you to walk out of there feeling as respected and as dignified as you did the day you walked in. And so, and that's what our chair leads to do. We are firm, but we're empathetic. We show respect and make sure that that person leaves, knowing that layoffs are not personal, right? They they'll be very much uh um about profit and loss statement, right? And ensuring that a company can be viable for the future. So they're not personal. Um, and so making sure we're empathetic and and showing that we care is a definitely top of mind for me. I don't sleep a night before a layoff because I am already because I'm planning and obsessing over the details, it's like I've lived it several times already before it comes. So it's definitely difficult for me as well emotionally, because I need to feel those emotions so then I can make sure that the people that are impacted feel that they've been thought about. So it definitely impacts me as a leader. Um, and then on the other side, on the personal level, being laid off is not easy, right? A lot of times what happens, you get laid off and you many of us, right, have been running through our careers, we're going from one job to the next, and without noticing, we become our careers, right? So, you know, you're director of finance at wherever. And that becomes your identity in many ways without you noticing. And so when you get laid off, right, it's not expected, it's one day to the next. And it's difficult sometimes to separate who am I, right? Who am I separate from the organization of which I work for? And so it's a very important part, healing part of the process of being laid off. And what I recommend when I did anyway to help find, figure out who I was. Um, I just thought about okay, what is the thing that I'm most passionate about that I don't have time to do normally, that I really want to do. For me, wellness, fitness is my passion. And I went to be a Zumba teacher, but I never had time. So I decided this was the moment. I will I apply for jobs. I also go and certify myself uh to teach Zumba. So I fly in New York, which was the next class that was offered. I get certified, I come back, and then they told us to the training. Oh, it's gonna be 90 days, maybe six months before you can teach. And I was like, absolutely. I worked in tech. So I nothing takes 90 days, right? So I come back, I start up my own classes, and then before you know it, um, I've got a mobile fitness business, six locations around Austin where I'm teaching classes. I have teachers and and like I've got a whole cardio dance um fitness business, excuse me, which was actually really amazing because as I was going through the job interviews, the people were been like, Well, what were you been doing since you were laid off? And I'm like, I started a fitness business. So it actually gave me something really exciting to talk about. And then it just energized me every day, right? Because I love dancing. And so I was more energized. I was probably like super happy. And that was coming through in my interviews. And then I decided to give that to other people, right? Because in that time, Meta was the first one to lay off, but many tech companies came after. And so I organized the hour of joy where I essentially organized a virtual Zumba class for other people had been who had been laid off and needed some joy and re-energizing. And we just danced for an hour on Zoom all together. And I just, you know, shared and tried to pour in to others, right? Because I think that's the other big thing that's important. When you have been impacted, is that you still have a lot of gifts to give, right? others and it's also energizing to pour into other people in that time. And so that's what I did.

SPEAKER_02 22:05

That's so inspiring. I appreciate you sharing all of those with us. I think it still goes down to the very first answer you gave us during the this podcast that for you everything is about people, right? Like definitely you have to empathize, you have to think how you can support them even after the layoff was already announced. And even after you yourself went through it, it you you still, as you said, you still have more to give. You you created that space for everyone also experiencing the same thing. So that's just so inspiring to hear. So again, thanks Jess for sharing that with us.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

Yeah, of course. And Joy, just so you know too, it was a good learning for myself, right? Because also too when you're so busy you don't even realize that like I didn't have a hobby. And I didn't have a hobby before. And now I have one. So now I even still I still teach current dance. Now as you can imagine I don't have time. It's a chief people officer to have a six location mobile fitness business. But I do still like I subteach sometimes at the YMCA. I don't have a regular class but whenever they meet me my schedule aligns on the weekend I'll go and teach um at the YMCA. So I still sometimes I'll do um have bachelorette parties or um you know just kind of one-off events but it's still such a great outlet for me still today um in my role to just help myself re-energize during the normal work season.

SPEAKER_02 23:36

Amazing. You talk about recovery after transformation when we first met before this podcast what does that actually mean for a comms or employee experienced leader? What should they be watching for in their teams after a big change?

SPEAKER_01 23:52

Yes. So I talk a lot about transformation. I led five transformations um in my last role and what I have come to use as a frame is a framework I call anchor. So if after any major change people are looking for something to anchor to right that's essentially what helps to restabilize the workforce and for people to find peace right within the change whether they agree with it or not. And so that anchor is actually an acronym. So the A is for anchoring stability. So for leaders it's important that when you have a big change or layoff, the the employee feels like almost like they're in a boat that's rocking and moving. Like they don't know what direction is going next because now you essentially had something that was steady and then you change directions quickly. So when you do that, nobody knows what's coming next. So that their concern it creates anxiety and so you can't promise what the feature brings because it's in constant change but what you can do is anchor stability by being predictable, right? So essentially saying what you're going to do and doing what you say. That's number one. The end is about nurturing wellness. And so this is going back to helping the employees understand that it's okay to take breaks. Like you need to take care of yourself layoff a transformation even in a transformation where there are you know a reduction and force the people that are still in the organization are still impacted. And so they they lost friends, they lost coworkers and it can be traumatic right because after uh a reduction and force you don't actually know who's impacted immediately. So you're pinging your friends they're not responding you don't know somebody's going to respond to your email it it can be traumatic. And so just as a leader ensuring that you're taking care of yourself and being open about it. Right. So taking PTO telling people hey I'm going to take that meeting in a walking meeting taking PTO and telling people about it and putting them out of office and not responding to mails encouraging your teams to take breaks you know and use their PTO that sounds small but people need to be healthy. The C is about meaning creating meaning so people want to know that the work that they're doing is actually making an impact on the broader organization. So that's about sitting down with people and I call them stay conversations to with your teens pretty quickly after, you know, within the first 30 days of a big change to say Joy you you work here, we have a new strategy here's how your work fits into the new strategy. Here's what's what you're doing is creating meaning and impact to that. The H is about holding community. So that's about bringing people together ideally in person if you can but when people feel like a sense of community they typically are happier. The O is about orienting to the future so getting people focused on the future versus staying stuck in the current changes today and helping them get excited about it. Right. Like we talk a lot about leadership about creating vision. It's never been more important to have a vision and be able to bring people along so that orients in the future and then finally the R is restoring trust. And so you you restore trust by kind of going back to what I said about anchor instability is from a commons perspective saying what you're going to do and then doing what you're going to say and then telling people you did it and then reminding them that you did it over and over and over. And that is how you restore trust. So really it's about being the anchor.

SPEAKER_02 27:22

I love that I went to this seminar recently and it tells there that you have to tell the same message four different ways in one time so that it lands different people has different styles. One would hear specifically if it's very number oriented another person might hear if it's very people oriented. Another person would hear just the summary of it and so on. So you kind of as again being in the communication space you have to learn how to communicate one message into different styles. And as you said you just have to keep reinforcing it. And I really love the Anchor acronym I'll put this on the landing page so that everyone can have a reference to it. But yeah thanks so much Jessica for sharing that now the question I know every internal comms person listening to this podcast has been waiting for is when you're rolling out something new whether it's AI tool, a wellness program, a policy change, what internal channels do you actually trust? Do you use Slack, Teams, email, town halls and how the the more important question is how do you decide what goes where?

SPEAKER_01 28:35

Yeah so the short answer is everything. So Joy kind of back to your point, you know people receive information in different ways and interpret it in different ways. So you need to use all the channels I would add to that where appropriate when you're when you're communicating something that's not confidential, I would also use external channels. So for example, I also will use LinkedIn to communicate something internally to my teens all by it's going to be on an external platform because it's really interesting. But you know if you think about how we process and receive communication at work it's not really how we process and receive communication in our normal lives right in in our normal life we have our apps we're on our phones we're constantly you know we're not constantly checking our personal email right like we're doing texts where all the ways that you are communicating is not how what the the same tools you have access to at work. And so we're a lot of times we're oversaturating people with emails um and then you have a town hall then everybody's distracted. So they probably didn't digest what you um and so a lot of times for messages that again are not confidential I will also use LinkedIn as a way to communicate. So I'll give you a good example of that. Every year um at Hayes we would do we celebrate people at the end of the year you have three or four awards categories and so absolutely announce those in the in the awards event we send out an email and so they won, they're seeing it live right there's an award ceremony and then I would also post on LinkedIn and highlight the people right that have been awarded and tell people hey because we will have celebrations after hey share your pictures from the celebration here too right where appropriate. And so it's another way that you can get people's attention. So I would not um I I would also think about how to use external tools that people already use in their normal life to also communication communicate non-confidential information.

SPEAKER_02 30:30

I love that bridging the gap between personal and work because as you said sometimes slowly your career is becoming you. And so if you kind of find that bridge to get into their personal lives too that's going to bring the message even more meaning for them. Now what have you learned about what actually cuts true when people are exhausted and skeptical like what's in a comms plan that gets people to actually pay attention and participate because right now there's just lots of messaging going around right so is there any tips from your aunt the most important messager is the manager.

SPEAKER_01 31:07

So who is the person that the your employee your colleagues are listening to is the most is their manager. So again back to that manager layer the middle manager manager in general your people leaders the people leaders are your way in so if you can as a cons team get your people leaders understand the leadership team understanding the strategy understanding the importance of the messages that are coming they have received the message they will and then you should deliberately ask them right to pass on the message because they're the ones being with employees they probably have a weekly stand up there might be a weekly one-on-one they'll be the people just have more direct way to communicate whatever needs to be communicated. And so the real trick is getting those leaders to digest and disseminate information.

SPEAKER_02 32:00

Amazing I fully agree with that 100% now I want to shift gears a bit here. Let's talk about the part that keeps up at night so which is proving the value of what they do. With your finance background I know you already mentioned data, right? And I know you think about measurement differently than most people leaders. So for someone listening who needs to walk into a budget meeting and justify their program, their platform, their team what are maybe two or three metrics you actually trust and what do you skip because it's just noise.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

The this is gonna sound crazy but the metrics I skip are culture and the metrics that I focus on are the ones that the person I'm asking the money from care about the most right ultimately the you know the person and this is it's probably controversial, but whatever the person has their bonus tied to is probably the metric they care about the most right so if you think about it from that lens, right? You're not gonna know what everybody's bonus is tied to, right? And that's an extreme example I realized. But ultimately that's what people care about. Right. So if you can focus, think through okay, what could this person's be like what is probably the metric right that is there being performance measured on and then you talk about it in that lens that's probably gonna get you a lot further than going to a meeting with finance and talking about culture because culture is hard to quantify. Now said that you have met culture the business won't work but at the same time is hard to quantify into money. So I would definitely focus on the metric that the person you're presenting to cares about.

SPEAKER_02 33:40

Amazing that's probably gonna save a lot of effort just thinking it from the lens of the person you're speaking to I think that's overall theme of this podcast is really adjusting your tone, your language to who you're speaking with. Now last week question Okay Jess, this is your moment to leave every employee experience leader, IC and people leader listening with something that they can take back to work tomorrow. If you could give them just one rule for navigating AI change and keeping employees at the center of it all, what would it be?

SPEAKER_01 34:14

It would definitely be the anger right so when people look back on this era that we're in it's an important era, right? We're we're in a period of disruption and it doesn't have to it's not negative, right? But it is a huge change. It's it's disruptive and so when we look back and we say what are these major milestones right in different eras this will be one. And so when people when you should be thinking about definitely I'm thinking about when I look back and people are thinking man how how what did I do during the era you know kind of like now and people are like what was I doing during COVID people will say what was I doing during the AI era and like how were you know the leaders that impacted me and they what people won't remember is all the different changes that were made. They won't remember that. But what they will remember are the leaders that really helped anchor stabilize them give them clean good strong feedback and a period of super intelligence so that they can be the next better version of themselves that's what they will remember. And so my my call to all of you all of us as leaders would be that is be the anchor right and think about the person when they when they look back who what do they what do you want them to say about you?

SPEAKER_02 35:32

That's a super strong line and I'm gonna steal that in the best way possible. All right so I want to end on something a bit lighter so let's do a rapid thumb so first thing that comes to mind just answer that ready okay okay what's a non-negotiable habit that keeps us teddy running a tool template or ritual you swear by as a people leader? Claude just in general I don't think I can live without Claude now best leadership lesson you learned outside of work keep dancing by J Lo.

SPEAKER_01 36:07

Went to a J Lo concert in Vegas and she was saying that was how she thought about life like when she made mistakes and she went to her mentor and was like what do I do next? And she's like what did you do before when you can't learn dance like just keep dancing keep trying keep dancing that's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 36:25

Okay. One thing you wish more leaders understood about what employees need after a big change that they need to anchor. What are you personally curious about right now when it comes to AI and the future of work?

SPEAKER_01 36:40

How every single one of our jobs will change as a result and then what are the next layer of skills that we need in order to be successful.

SPEAKER_02 36:50

Amazing all right Jessica there's a lot here people are going to take away you brought the strategy brain and the human side and I think that's exactly what people in this space need to hear more of.

SPEAKER_01 37:02

Now before we go where can people find you and learn more about what you're building at reframing HR Yeah so visit our website it's reframingHr.com you know we're focused on what I see in the market is that there are a lot of people talking about and a lot of people in tech right building tools for HR and reframing is all about actually let's use the HR practitioners to then help to educate uh where we go from here. And so that's what reframe is about so there's a lot of thought leadership also um have courses about reskilling and how the our jobs will change the first class we'll launch is about HRBPs. So definitely join that and and give strategic advisory. So reframingHr.com is where you can find more information.

SPEAKER_02 37:46

Amazing. All right everyone thank you for tuning in to Elevate if today's conversation sparked ideas about improving your own organization we want to help you take the next step. At Line Zero, we offer a personalized employee experience assessment. Our consultants will spend time with you to evaluate your unique employee experience ecosystem and also understand the specific challenges you face in engaging and supporting your workforce. You can learn more by visiting us at linezero.com the link to our page and I'll put Jessica's page too in the description. We also encourage you to follow Jessica Smith on LinkedIn to see more of her amazing work at ReframingHR. Finally if you enjoyed this episode be sure to follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts YouTube and LinkedIn at LineZero for more conversations, insights and stories about internal communications and employee experience. Until then, keep elevating keep inspiring and let's make every workplace a place where people thrive. Thanks everyone