S02 EP12. Purpose in Practice: How Great Leaders Create the Conditions for People To Thrive

What does it really take to build a workplace where people grow and do their best work, even in one of the most emotionally demanding professions?

In this episode of Elevate, Joy Fajardo sits down with Carla Armstrong, CFRE, Director of Philanthropy at Gulfside Healthcare Services, a five-time Top 100 Workplace in Tampa Bay, to explore what great leadership looks like when the work is deeply human.

Carla shares an unconventional career journey, from training at Juilliard and building a career in dance to leading philanthropy for one of Florida's most respected nonprofit healthcare organizations. Along the way, she reveals the leadership principles that have remained constant: resilience, purpose, trust, and the belief that culture is built through everyday decisions, not company slogans.

Together, Joy and Carla discuss:

• What leaders can learn from the discipline and collaboration of the performing arts.
• How Gulfside has built and sustained an award-winning workplace culture in hospice care.
• Why communication becomes even more important when your workforce is dispersed across locations and serving people in the field.
• The difference between purchasing technology and successfully adopting it.
• How professional development drives stronger technology adoption and employee engagement.
• Leading through multiple generations while preserving purpose and connection.
• The opportunities and limitations of AI in people-centred organizations.
• Why the future of leadership depends on creating the conditions for people to thrive.

Whether you lead communications, HR, IT, employee experience, or an entire organization, this conversation offers practical insights into building cultures where people feel supported, connected, and inspired to do meaningful work. 

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Music: Ramaramaray by Aiyo | Get Up on That Horse by spring gang 
Via Epidemic Sound

©  2026 LineZero

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SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to Elevate, a podcast where we sit down with the women shaping workplace culture at some of the biggest names in the business. These are the leaders navigating change, putting people first, and keeping teams connected and engaged every single day. Elevate is brought to you by Line Zero, a global employee experienced consultancy firm that partners with organizations to create connected workplaces. Tune in to learn how today's leaders are breaking barriers and building cultures where employees truly thrive.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

I am your host, Joy Ficardo. Welcome back to Elevate. Top 100 workplace in Tappa Bay five years in a row at a hospice organization. Most people leaders at large enterprises cannot hit that benchmark. And here's a nonprofit hospice in Casco County where the staff shows up every single day to walk people and families through the end of life. Our guest, Carla Armstrong, is part of how that happens. She grew up in Canales County, trained at the Juilliard School, earning a BFA in dance, and 15 years choreographing more than 50 original works, and teaching hundreds of students. And then she made a pivot that most people don't see coming. She built a 30-year career in nonprofit fundraising and development, earned her CFRE, the gold standard credential in her field, landed at Golfstein Healthcare Services as director of Philanthropy, where she's been helping build a culture where people feel the mission, not just read it on a poster. Carla, welcome to Elvate. I'm very excited to have you with us today.

SPEAKER_02 1:37

Thank you so much for this opportunity to share a little bit about myself. It's our pleasure.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

Carla, Juilliard for 15 years, building dance career, and then 30 years in nonprofit fundraising. Walk me through the pivot. What made you leave the studio and what pulled you towards this work?

SPEAKER_02 1:55

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I started out young dancing. Um art and dance were my passion. And I consider myself fortunate to have had that opportunity to go to Juilliard, work with incredible masters the four years I was there. And then I also um was able to dance professionally after I graduated. But even while I was dancing, I the arts, it's difficult to make a living on one job alone in the arts. And so I I started uh thinking about beyond dance, because dance is a short career. What do I want to do? What's what's sort of going to be the next chapter and what can I do now to lay the groundwork for that? So I was very fortunate to be able to also work side by side with performing with a company called Gaynor Minden. Um they're a ballet point shoe manufacturer, and it was a startup company at the time. Um I was their first full-time employee, and they were so wonderful in being flexible, understanding the needs of a performing artist for that schedule. So they really worked hard to hire dancers who could perform professionally and still work on the business side. And it was just a wonderful learning experience. I learned a lot in the five years I was there. And then from there, I shifted to uh a dance publication, a dance and theater publication. Uh, it was a company that owned many different dance uh publications, but the one they wanted help with was something called Stage Directions, which was a national B2B magazine for technical theater, all the behind-the-scenes stuff, you know, the rigging, the lighting, the scenery. I was to sell advertising. I said, well, this is new. I have never done this, and jumped right in and learned a lot and had a great time and really discovered that I enjoyed that. But I was with them for five years and I'd at that point been in the for-profit world for a little over 10. And while I was doing well, I was very successful, I wasn't as happy as I thought I would be. And so I really started to take a hard look at the same time. I was getting married, getting ready to have children. And, you know, you think about all those life pivots, and I really wanted to see what I could do to use the skills that I have and grow, but also help other organizations grow as well, maybe nonprofit. So that was when I first became interested and found a position at the Strauss Center for Performing Arts in Tampa. During that time, I had moved to Florida, married, had children. And so helping another arts organization was just so near and dear to my heart. And it was my first time doing any kind of fundraising, but it was similar, right? Advertising is sort of selling something that's very abstract. You don't get something in return. It's space. So fundraising kind of aligned with that, where we're selling a good feeling. Really, that's the return a donor gets for their donation, is to feel really good and empowered about the impact they made. So it was just a really, it's odd because I would never have planned and thought that it would be a fundraiser because there's a joke that nobody goes to college for fundraising. We all kind of fall into it from different paths, but it's one of those things in retrospect, you look back and you realize that everything on your journey was leading you to the next step. And so that was how I found myself as a fundraiser at the Strauss Center. I was with them for five years, really enjoyed it, but again, wanted to focus on a work-life balance. Um, and the commute was was quite a bit, and that the late hours were taking me away from my very young children. And so looking around at other nonprofits that were near and dear to my heart, Gulfside Hospice was one I'd had family members on hospice. It was a pretty transformational experience for myself and my family. And I thought this is where I really want to invest time and resources into helping others in the community through Gulfside's work.

SPEAKER_00 5:41

Even the very beginning of the story that you shared, where they see people who can perform but also wants a full-time job. That kind of support in that industry first, it's just very heartwarming. And when you say the new role that you have with Gulfside, it's transforming, I believe you, because I have a lot of friends who are working in hospice care. And I just can feel that it's definitely transforming for anyone to work in that space. You came up in an environment where the standard was absolute and collaboration was non-negotiable. You weren't just performing, you were also directing, you were teaching, building groups of people towards shared things. Now, when you look at how you lead now, what specifically did the studio teach you that most leadership development completely misses?

SPEAKER_02 6:30

I don't know that it misses, but I will say that the thing I think I learned the most was resilience and repeated effort matters. I think that is the biggest lesson I learned as a student. And then through performing, I grew up with many incredibly talented dancers. And probably the biggest indicator of whether they sort of eventually were performing professionally and succeeded was did they give up or not? So it was it was that idea of, okay, if this door closes, where's another door? Where's another window? I'm gonna keep pursuing this and find a different creative way to approach the problem, to find a different solution. And sometimes we have to be open to it not being what we had preconceived as the way forward. So I think I learned a lot of that resilience through the dance training and through the collaboration in the arts. I think it teaches you to be open to others' ideas, teaches you to, you know, take responsibility for your own effort while leaving room for others to weigh in and be a part of that. And it's such an ingrained part of the process of training to not just be a dancer but be an artist that I feel like that just sort of became part of me. It's very hard to like separate that now because it's just been so ingrained since I was a child, really. You know, it's you.

SPEAKER_00 7:49

It's just you cannot separate Carla as a ballet dancer and Carla as a leader. And having that perspective is actually kind of a superpower, right? Because you are approaching things on a different angle. You are asking questions that are typically not asked by leaders in your field. When you step into golf side, where as we mentioned, the stakes are as high as it can get, getting culture right, it's a big thing. Now, I want our listeners to actually feel what that environment is like. Hospice is one of those words that people hear and immediately they praise for it. But golf side has figured out how to build a top 100 workplace inside it. Before we get into the how, what does it actually feel like to work there? What's the daily lead experience that most people on the outside don't understand or maybe they don't know?

SPEAKER_02 8:44

I think the biggest thing is we have a small team that visits with each family. And so they get to know them intimately. They almost become part of their family in many cases because you're there through some of the best and the worst of that end-of-life journey. But I think what people may not realize is it takes a lot more support for that team to be able to do what they need to as well. So there's so much going on behind the scenes and a lot of collaboration. Like any healthcare organization, it's complicated. It's a really challenging because you've got pressures both from wanting to do the best you can for the patient and the family, but then also there's legislative things that impact the way we can do our business. Um, and in just so many different layers to that onion. So I think it's really what helps is knowing that everybody wants to work together. We're very patient-centered, very patient-focused. And I think when you start to approach things from it's not about what we want, it's about what they want or they need. It shifts the way we all think and the way we all approach a problem because we remain focused on being solution-oriented. And I think that helps create that culture of collaboration where we all want to work together to achieve something that's really meaningful and important. And it literally is important. It is life and death for our patients and our families. And so the stakes are high and we understand that and we take that responsibility seriously.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

The same way that the question shifts when you shift your mindset about not what the company wants, but what the people that you serve want. In the same way, when meaning is built into the work itself, the leadership challenge also shifts. Because now it's not how do we get people to care? Because they already care. It's more of how do we protect the people who already do so that we can expand, we can serve more people in our space. So I think it it goes the same way. Five years, I'll go back to that because it's mind-boggling. I was like, people like organizations want to be there and Carlis team is there. So five years as a top 100 workplace while doing work this emotionally demanded. I want to get specific a bit here. What does Golf Sign do structurally and operationally to build a culture where people don't burn out? What would surprise, say, for example, a people leader from a large enterprise if they spent a week inside your organization?

SPEAKER_02 11:21

Well, I think anything related to culture starts at the top. And we have a wonderful president and CEO, Linda Ward, who, you know, comes from a really unique background. You know, she has her master's in social work, right? That empathetic, caring, mission-driven kind of heart. And then she's also got healthcare administration experience, years, decades of experience of understanding that you have to protect the business in order to protect the people who work for it. And so that starts, I think, at the top. And she's really created this atmosphere where there's an open door policy. Anyone can come and talk to her at any time. So there's always an avenue to go right to the top and talk to her about that. And then that trickles down, right, to her, the rest of her executive team, and then the people who report to them, and then those all the way throughout the organization. It kind of permeates there. And it is an important thing. There is, there is burnout. It's a very heavy lift for a particularly our clinical team. They're there every day. And you grow close to these patients, and watching them pass away is regardless of how much you think you're prepared for it, it's it's still hard. And so we have an amazing mental wellness program that our HR department is really focused on providing support. We have a lot of employee resources to help employees make sure that we can, you know, we can stay at our best mentally, physically, emotionally to continue to be there and be that foundation of support for the patients and families who need us.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

I love it when you mentioned that the culture starts from the top, from the leadership. Because it's true. The organization is as good as the leaders are. It's not really about protecting people from the hard parts, because no matter what, that hard part, it's part of the job. But it's making sure that no one carries them along. Because as he said, there's a lot of layers, there's a lot of things that are happening behind the scene to make it happen for the people to really serve. I think that's a very smart approach. Now, five years in a row means you're not actually getting lucky. Someone made a decision to keep her building this. And as you said, that's the leadership team. I mean, it's the whole team, but the support from the leadership is a very huge piece of it as well. Now, culture at scale only holds if communication holds, right? I want to get into how you actually keep everyone connected because your workforce setup is one that a lot of our listeners deal with at the same time. So, as we know, healthcare attention is a real crisis right now. You have field workers, you have clinical staff, you have admin people, you know, people in completely different environments. And a lot of them are not sitting at a desk. What does good internal communication actually look like at Gulf Site? How do you reach everybody? And what have you learned about what actually works versus what sounds good in a meeting?

SPEAKER_02 14:27

Oh gosh, that's a there's a lot there to unpack. So I think, and what makes it really unique is from even hospice from other healthcare organizations is we're not all in one building either. So our care goes to wherever the patient calls home. So when we talk about the the clinical staff, they're not doing it in our building. We do have two hospice care centers, but a very small percentage of the number of patients we take care of need that level of care and are in there. The vast majority of the care is going out to the home. Well, that means you've got staff scattered working in homes across three counties. We have even among those who work in an office, it's still spread out. We have 11 locations. So communication is always the challenge, having everybody feel like we're still all connected, even if we can't physically see each other every day. So I think there's a number of ways we we try to tackle that and and do the best that we can. One is technology. Technology, there are a lot of tools that we use, some Microsoft Teens, among many other things, to help stay connected, to make it really easy to just send a quick message or a quick phone call or a quick FaceTime type or visual meeting, virtual meeting. So we we make that just make it easy and accessible. That's number one. I think also, again, it starts from the top where you have to have good communication and make sure that we're all on the same plan, the same strategy, that there's um a really clear focus and understanding of what priorities have been set for the organization. And each of us are now committed to making sure that remains the priority. And that again changes the communication style because now we're really making sure that everything is honed in and focused on those really critical things that help keep the organization going. So we have regular meetings at the top, leadership, specifically focused on solving problems, bringing up issues that we see, and how can we tackle them together? And then that information then becomes helpful for us to like keep our own staff informed of what's going on outside of our department, right? It's easy to get stuck into just what our little world is, but we've got a lot of different spheres touching each other inside this organization. And we all need to have a good understanding just of what the others are doing, but what they're trying to go for, right? So how can we collaborate and help and be supportive and find ways to work together to make that possible?

SPEAKER_00 16:55

What you say matters, but the where and how you say it also matters as much. Without I want to talk a bit about the infrastructure. You'll describe what it takes to make communication actually land across clinical admin field staff. The tools matter here as well. So you you already mentioned briefly Microsoft Teams, but what other tools actually keep Golf Side connected? And when you're evaluating any kind of technology, as you mentioned, are there any specifics that you're looking for? What separates something that gets adopted from something that gets purchased and then forgotten? Because that's one of the biggest issues and concerns for a lot of different organizations right now.

SPEAKER_02 17:36

Well, obviously the electronic health records system we use is is key. It's everything about patients. And we we kind of live and breathe by that to making sure that the all the information about our patients is there, recorded accurately. It's it's accessible by those who need to access it in order to take care of the patient. So that electronic health records system is core to everything. In addition to that, really, it becomes identifying tools that additional tools outside of things that work globally through the organization, but things that might help departments for their specific needs. So obviously HR has um developed some systems that help stay in touch and track employee benefits, our payroll, things like that. And then even fundraising philanthropy, we have our own tools to help us stay connected and in contact with donors and give them the best experience possible. So there are many different tools. I think though, in general, what it comes down to, my experience with software is that you get out of it what you put into it. So I think there are a lot of wonderful software tools that have an amazing capability, but I think sometimes we neglect to invest the time and the resources into building out and utilizing that tool fully. So sometimes I I found with other software, like you can see people are using just the bare minimum of it. And that's what they're getting out of it. So I think um there is a focus to try to, if we're gonna invest in this tool, we want to make sure one, it's the right tool for any job, right? And then make sure that if we're if we're investing in it, we use it and we use all of it as much as we can because that's where we're going to get the maximum return. And again, that just adds to better communication. You know, it usually it's all about utilizing those communication aspects of any software program. So we really try to just make sure we're, you know, putting that time and effort into it, not just purchasing it and using the bare surface.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

I love what you mentioned in the beginning that you only get what you put in. Adoption is just so underrated as well. Adoption and also all the investments put in terms of making sure that the tool is the right for your people, because you can have the best platform in the world. And if the field nurse or if your people doesn't feel it's for them, it's it's not going to be as efficient.

SPEAKER_02 19:57

I think also just making sure that they have the opportunity to learn to be educated. So I think that's something that I'm really um I haven't mentioned that is important is there's a sense of professional development. So when you make professional development a priority for every employee at every level, things like saying, okay, here's a great tool, but let's really make sure you have the time to learn how to use it. Um and and not just assume somebody can just pick it up along the way. We actually really have training that's available to help develop those skills and to make that tool possible to be used.

SPEAKER_00 20:33

Correct. Yeah. You you already gave them the tool. So now it's time for you to also provide them the space to learn. I'm gonna shift gears a bit here. 30 years of building this, you know, the culture communication teams mission. I want to talk about what it actually taken to do all of this as a woman. Okay. So, what has it actually been like to show up as a woman across 30 years of this work? You know, the studios, the nonprofits, the boardrooms, the donor rooms. What have you had to navigate that never gets talked about as much publicly?

SPEAKER_02 21:07

I think the challenge has been, and it always probably will be, it feels like, is that work-life balance because I'm a mother, I have two children, and as they were growing up, I think that was the biggest challenge is how do I balance the needs of my children, were obviously the most important things in my life, but also balance the needs of my work. And I'm I'm because I grew up with that ballet dance background, there was always this, you have to do the best you possibly can. And so for me, the challenge was always how do I give 100% to both? And so I think as a woman, there's there is typically an expectation that you're the mom. So you're the one helping deal with the day to day of the children. I I'm lucky I have an amazing supportive husband who truly has parented equally with me. He's embraced that there's never been this feeling like that's your job or that's my job. So he's he's amazing. Could not have done anything without my husband and his support. And truly he was the one there with the kids when I was working or teaching dance. I think I'm uh I'm not sure if I mentioned I still teach ballet um a few nights a week in the evening to stay connected to the art and the and the my passion. And I think that probably the role I have as a mother very much is intertwined with the role I have as a leader. And I think in some ways it's it's made me a better leader because as my children have grown up and I've seen their needs change, I become more empathetic to the changing needs of the people that I lead. Um, or the the students that I teach become more it creates a more a different layer of awareness of what their needs are and how I can lead them best. So I feel like I've learned from motherhood some better ways to lead. And then likewise, some things I've learned along the way of leading employees. Teaching students has helped me to be a better mother. It makes me weren't more empathetic or maybe even just more aware of some of the challenges my kids may have been facing, but may not have wanted to talk to me about until I ask them a little bit. So I think the two kind of go hand in hand for me. And that's all part of, I feel like, being a female leader.

SPEAKER_00 23:21

We love the dynamics, right? Like it goes both ways. You learn something from being a mother that's applicable to work, you learn something from work that is applicable for being a mother. And that's just as a demon. I bet even male leaders also have their own. Like they learn something from being a father that's applicable for being a leader, too, and vice versa.

SPEAKER_02 23:42

Yeah, it's yeah, and I also just want to say I think it matters having other women leaders around you. Um, and that is actually one of the things that I think is very unique about where I work now at Gulfside, because the entire executive suite is female. Our CEO is female, our COO, our CFO, our C H R O, and our chief medical officer, CMO, all women. And so I think that that's unique. And I think that that that helps because we we model those who've gone before us and appreciate the paths they've paved to help make that possible. And so then that helps inspire us to do a little bit more, reach a little bit more. So I think that's fun too.

SPEAKER_00 24:23

That is wonderful and inspiring. You know, a set of all women leaders just cruising. And again, I'm gonna go back to the top workplace, right? Yeah, with very inspiring, 100%. Now, looking at who's coming up behind you, I want to end with where all of this is going. You've spent 30 years watching how people and organizations change. What are you paying attention to right now in terms of the future of culture, communications, and this kind of mission-driven work? What genuinely excites you and what are you worried about?

SPEAKER_02 25:03

Yeah, I think it's interesting. Clearly, I think both the challenges and the potential successes, right? The things that are great is in differences between generations and working generations. We've got a lot of different generations working right now. I think more generations working together than almost any other time in history. And with that comes some different communication styles, some different expectations. And what I feel like worked for me as a leader 20 years ago isn't the same as what I need to do now to best lead my employees. And I think I still am always trying to learn. I think that's part of being leader is is trying to keep an open mind and learning. And the the needs of the employees have definitely changed, I think, in the last even 10 years. So I think I'm always paying attention to that. I'm excited though, because I feel like as somebody in, you know, working in the nonprofit world, the generation, the younger, what I'd call younger because of my age, the younger generation, there's probably it's been years since we've had a generation that's more socially engaged and active and wanting to change the world and wanting to do things that impact on both not just a local but a global scale, and are willing to put the work into it and willing to put their dollars where they think this is going in the right direction. And I think that says a lot about hopefully the support that nonprofits who really are the ones, we're usually the safety net, we're the ones helping the ones most in need, that getting their engagement and having them be a part of that is exciting. So that's, I think that makes me most excited. I think about my young adult children and the ones that are maybe 10 years older than them, they want to do things. They're still building their career. So they're limited in what they can do. But watch out one day, they're not going to be so limited and they're going to be able to do amazing things. And I think just encouraging that, supporting it, nurturing, growing that idea, I think is what excites me most as somebody fundraising in the nonprofit world, wanting to just engage and help them feel like they can make an impact now, even as they work to make a bigger impact later. So that's what I'm excited about. I think as far as challenges, I think we're all figuring out what the heck does AI mean for the world today and what's the impact going to be tomorrow? And how do we plan for that? We're always trying to think not just what's happening now, but you've got to start planning out three years, five years, 10 years. What's your vision? What's your goal? Where, what direction do you want to go? And AI has certainly made that a little bit more complicated because there's still a lot of uncertainty as to how helpful or not it could be. It's it's a bit of a double-edged sword, right? There are a lot of wonderful things about AI that can definitely transform and make things more efficient, can speed up processes. But because I'm in the people business, I think there's a risk too that we lose that genuine authentic ability to communicate with a real person in real time. And while AI can sometimes feel real to some people, it's not. And it's still a program. It's giving you almost the answers you want, not the answers you need. And I think that's sometimes the difference. So I think there are definitely some challenges there. And I know we as an organization are trying to figure out right now how how do we best use it because it is a tool, again, but again, you get out of it what you put into it. So what direction do we want that tool to be used in? And I think then the last challenge is just healthcare is so complicated in this, in this country. And it's a very hard onion to peel back to solve. I think a lot of people have tried to solve it. The fact is the cost of health care is growing for both the individual, the recipient of that care, as well as the providers of that care. So everybody's trying to figure out how do we just still stay whole to taking care of the patient, but also making sure we f as an organization survive to be able to take care of that patient. So we don't pick and choose. We take everybody who needs our care. And so we're becoming more and more reliant on that philanthropic support from the community. So for those who are able to help, a little bit makes a big difference. And so those are the challenges we're seeing because it's it's healthcare. I don't think anybody goes, oh yay, let's talk about healthcare. I think it's like one of those subjects that people are like, oh. So I think we're just trying to, you know, figure out how to continue to um adapt and make sure we're maneuvering and positioning, I guess is a better way of saying it ourselves to be able to take care of the patients tomorrow.

SPEAKER_00 29:57

It's a perfect segue. I think you wanted to share something with our audience. Um, if you want to bring that up right now, I think it's a perfect time.

SPEAKER_02 30:05

Yeah, I just wanted to share. I'm the director of Line Therapy, and my heart is connecting people who want to help and make a difference with the work that that matters. I really just want to encourage you to consider donating to a worthwhile cause that's near and dear to your heart. There are amazing nonprofits doing amazing work, but they all need help. And a lot of that work stops if they don't receive the donations. So just consider making a donation to something near and dear to your heart. Personally, if hospice is something that either has touched your life or um resonates with you, that that idea that no one should be alone at the end of life and no one should have to worry about whether they can receive the care they need. We rely on that community support, particularly to help patients who are uninsured. And I think a lot of people don't realize that the ones who are most likely to fall into that sort of uninsured gap are people my age. So someone who might be between 50 and 64 years old, they're too young to qualify for Medicare, but they may have become so sick that they lost their job and with it their private health insurance. So it could happen to anybody. It really could. And so just helping to ensure that we can take care of them requires a lot of support. Goldside raises between two to three million dollars a year just to take care of the patients right here in the local Tampa Bay community. Every little bit helps. So just encouraging everybody to, if you can, make a make a gift.

SPEAKER_00 31:41

Perfect. Thank you so much for sharing that, Carla. And we will definitely include the link to make that donation in the page where we will post uh this podcast. Now, folks, we started with a number five years, top 100 workplace in a hospice. And by the end of this conversation, I think it makes complete sense. Carla didn't build a great culture by trying to make hard work feel easy. She built it by creating the conditions where people could do hard work and not do it alone. The communication had to work, the trust had to be real, the mission had to mean something to everyone, not just the leadership. That's not a hospice thing, that's an every organization thing. So, Carla, I'm really glad we had this conversation. What you're building at Gulfside matters in ways most of us don't think about until we need it. Thank you for being here. And to our listeners, if today's conversation got you thinking about how your organization connects with its people, how you communicate, how you build culture, or how you help employees do their best work, LineZero can help you figure it out. We offer a personalized employee experience assessment for our consultants who spend real time with you and your team to understand your employee experience ecosystem and also the specific challenges you're navigating. You can learn more at LineZero.com. The link is in the description. Also, please give Carla a follow on LinkedIn. We will post her link on the description. Follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, and LinkedIn at Line Zero for more conversations from the women who are transforming employee experience. Until then, keep elevating, keep inspiring, and let's keep building workplaces where people truly thrive.