Bamboozled Summer: Camp Edition

Summer camp sounds simple… until you’re the one planning it.

In this episode, we turn summer camp into a game show—because honestly, it kind of is one. From half-day camps that don’t cover your workday to last-minute cancellations and the never-ending logistics of childcare, we break down the real mental load behind “just signing your kids up for camp.”

Then we shift from chaos to solutions:

• Why summer camp planning feels so overwhelming
• The assumptions parents get wrong every year
• What happens when camps fall through (and they will)
• A surprisingly freeing way to divide the mental load with your partner
• Simple systems that make summer actually manageable

If you’ve ever felt like summer planning is a full-time job… you’re not wrong.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Okay, welcome back to the Mental Load Chronicles. Today we are going to have some fun talking about summer camp because summer camp planning is fun.

SPEAKER_03 0:14

Not as fun as going to summer camp.

unknown 0:16

No.

SPEAKER_01 0:17

You know, the meaning of summer camp has changed so much for me because I was a summer camp kid and I went to all different kinds of summer camps. And now that I'm a mom planning summer camp, it's like, whoa, this it's like snow day, right? Snow days were a blast when you were a kid. Uh-huh. And now that you're an adult having to clean up the snow, reorganize your entire work schedule, figure out what to do with the little monsters all day. I mean, the cute little children. Hi, kids. Summer camp is just different. And it's a huge, huge mental load. And you and I talked about this months ago.

SPEAKER_03 0:48

But because summer was nowhere near, we just sort of kicked that can down the road and said, but you got a plan for like how how is your life going to work with one of your kids that you, you know, that does chores and stuff around the house is no longer there doing that stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

If it's sleepaway camp, sure. Yeah. But like if it's day camp, and we're gonna get into all of that. Yeah. All right. So what I thought we would do is I thought we would pull on a little nostalgia for all of my fellow friends fans out there.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:17

And we will play bamboozled camp edition.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

So I have set up bamboozled camp edition for them.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:25

And uh you are the sole contestant. So you're not playing against anyone, but you are playing against yourself.

SPEAKER_03 1:30

It's gonna suck if I lose, I'll just say that.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

I I don't know how you could win. Your knowledge on this topic is is pretty slim, but but you know what? Let's see. Let's just let's just go. So welcome to Bamboozled Summer Camp edition. Okay. Your job is simple. Get three kids through one week of summer camp. Okay. Ready? Ready. All right. So you've got three kids with different interests and schedules. Okay. Pick one camp for each of them for one week.

SPEAKER_03 2:00

Well, so for our oldest, we can throw this out. She's she's she'll be 18, getting ready for college. We don't need to get her camp.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

She went to camp last summer.

SPEAKER_03 2:09

Yeah, but that that was last summer. We're talking about this summer.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Okay, what if she wanted to go to camp this summer?

SPEAKER_03 2:15

And she's 18. She can plan her own kids.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

All right. What age? So this is a good question, and it's taking us a little away from our bamboozled summer camp edition. But what age should a child be responsible for their own camp planning? Is it 18?

SPEAKER_03 2:31

Here's the thing. If if it was up to me, I would be, I would say 15, 16. If I can trust you to drive a car, we I should be able to trust you to say, here's what I want to do for summer camp, and then to ask some questions and to see if they got it figured out.

SPEAKER_01 2:47

Okay, that's fair. I also think around that age is probably when you're getting a summer job. Sure. Not necessarily summer camp. Sure. So what age did you get your first summer job? Uh I would have been 15. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:58

That's my it wasn't a summer job. I just got a job. But yeah, it's around 15.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

Yeah, same. So and I only got really summer jobs because I babysat during the school year. But my summer job, I always worked at the pool, the community pool.

SPEAKER_03 3:10

Yeah, and I never really had a summer job because I played baseball all summer.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_03 3:15

So I was never like went to camp, never like my camp was being at the park all day with my buddies playing baseball.

SPEAKER_01 3:21

Yep. Yep. All right. So back to bamboozled. Okay. So we'll take one of the kids out of the mix, but we have two others. One is six, one is ten. Pick summer camps for them for one week. Okay. What kind of summer camps would you send them to?

SPEAKER_03 3:36

Well, I here's the thing. I would say for um our middle child, I would female uh into sports athletic, I would see if there's a she loves gymnastics, see if there's a gymnastics camp going on a week somewhere. Yeah. And uh book her for that.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

Okay. And what about our son?

SPEAKER_03 3:53

Uh I he he's getting into baseball, so I or or just other sports. Yep. So try to find something that would keep him active in a productive way for the week.

SPEAKER_01 4:03

Okay. So I've done some research already on the summer, and I picked curveballs in your game based on my research.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 4:13

So unfortunately, you have gotten a wicked wingo card. Oh no. I know. And both of those camps are partial day camps. Okay. One runs from 10 to 2 and the other runs from 9 to noon. What do you do?

SPEAKER_03 4:27

Um, first thing I would do is call in-laws. Uh your mom and dad and their significant others live locally. So to see if they're on any of those days they could take one of the or boat kids to camp, either pick up or drop off. Uh and then work with you and then me to see what we could do with our schedules to fill the rest of the time.

SPEAKER_01 4:49

And that sounds like a lot of fun, doesn't it? Yeah. Okay, so you would not abandon the camp plan.

SPEAKER_03 4:56

Not initially, no. Okay. No, I'd I because the thing is, I I uh you know, here's the thing, I d I I think a lot of day summer camps are essentially just daycare where they put the kids in a room and they don't really do anything and they just let them run around and that's fine, keep them alive. But like, you know, if they can get better at their sports that they like to play, I think that that's a better use of their time. So I agree.

SPEAKER_01 5:16

Okay, so let's fast forward. You've you've signed them up for those camps. Okay. It's Tuesday morning. Okay. And my dad, I'm just gonna pick on him for a minute. My dad is supposed to come get the kids. You're ready to leave for work, and he calls and says he's not gonna be there for an hour and a half.

SPEAKER_03 5:34

Okay. Then I just tell him not to bother because if those camps are only for like three hours and he's gonna be an hour and a half late, then I will just take him to camp that day.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

Okay. Hungry monkey camp has ended early. There was there was a case of COVID.

SPEAKER_00 5:49

Oh no.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

They have sent them all home. You just got the phone call at work.

SPEAKER_03 5:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

And now they don't have camp for the rest of the week. It's Wednesday.

SPEAKER_03 5:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

Go.

SPEAKER_03 5:59

So uh obviously you'd have to leave work and go get the kids.

SPEAKER_01 6:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 6:03

And uh we'll also see if in-laws are around to go pick up kids. If not, then uh I'll go grab them or if you can't, you know, call you and see what's up. Uh and then for the rest of the week, it would be calling the local school camp here that's just down the street, and see if they have any openings for those two days. Because then now it's, you know, now you're just uh surviving survival mode and just kind of see where that goes.

SPEAKER_01 6:25

Yeah. Well, that concludes the game. I think you did pretty well.

SPEAKER_03 6:30

It's complicated and it's a lot of it's a lot on your plate when you're already worrying about everything else that goes on in life to then have to worry about, you know, it's one of the you know, obviously, if you if when your kids go to school, it's great because it also simplifies your life, right? Because you can drop them off and you know you got eight hours to do what you gotta do, and then they'll come back in eight hours, unless there's you know a wrinkle with like somebody being sick or something. Um, but with camp, you're right, it's it's much more of a wild west. And you know, we had I remember previously, um, I think it was with our oldest when she was in a a summer camp and they just closed it for the last week because all the college kids that were running the camp all went back to college, and they're wind, right? We didn't find for that. So sorry, there's just no camp next week. And it's like, what? No, we were relying on you to have camp next week. And it's like, well, sorry, all the all the kids are going back to college and we don't got anybody else. So sorry. Um, but yeah, that kind of stuff happens with summer camp. And you know, it it's it sucks because you know, um camp is hella expensive, yeah, super expensive, yeah, and you typically don't get a lot out of it. Again, it's a lot, it's really expensive to have your kids just have just have babysitting for your kids, essentially. Right. Um, and uh it's tough. It's really tough, especially with families that have to have mom and dad both work.

SPEAKER_01 7:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:45

Or or a single household, right? Single parent household, right? Like it's really, really tough.

SPEAKER_01 7:49

Yeah, yeah. Well, so I thought we would have a conversation about summer because most summers we just sort of survive, um, as you said. I mean, you referenced that a couple of times, where you know, you just you're relying on different things, looking at all the mom blogs right now and Reddit threads and people just trying to figure out where do I send my kids? And then you brought up another good good point, and that's cost. I mean, there's just astronomical costs for summer camps right now. So if you're trying to get out of the summer under$10,000 for a family of, you know, five, which is what we are, it's impossible. It is impossible to do anything productive, right? Like you said, you can typically park your kid in a place where they will basically keep them alive. Um, or if you want to do something that is more enriching, you're gonna pay a lot more for that. So one thing that I thought that we could talk about is assumptions, things that uh people think that they know. So you think you look into a camp, and that's why in in our bamboozled game, I had one of the camps be a half-day camp because you think like, oh, I'll send him to a baseball camp. Won't that be great? And it turns out it's really just sort of a two-hour clinic.

SPEAKER_00 9:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

Right. And it's like that's not child care. And they don't offer most of the baseball camps that I've looked at, don't offer that.

SPEAKER_00 9:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

So then trying to piece together what's he doing for the other hours of the day is near impossible.

SPEAKER_03 9:16

Well, and it it almost makes it, you know, a a a two-hour camp, in my opinion, is just stupid because it makes it not worth it. Because like if you have to drive a half hour to get to the camp, then you're not like driving a half an hour home just to turn around and go right back. So you gotta, whoever's dropping them off is hanging out in that area, in that area. It's just it the logistics of it make going to that camp stupid.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

Yep. So for us for the summer, um, I think we have had some assumptions too that are based on who's gonna do what. So I thought we would kind of talk about who's gonna do what as we head into this summer. Cause we're, believe it or not, being March, we're already behind. So a lot of the summer camps that I had looked at when I reached out to them last week, a couple of them said, I'm sorry, we'll we're full, but we can put you on a waiting list. So we have two kids that need care all summer. Who's responsible for what? I know. Well, for so many years, it's been me. I'm responsible for this whole summer.

SPEAKER_03 10:17

And I sort of tell you that I need you to help. But here's the thing, like again, you know, as we've had this conversation before, like, uh, if it's gonna change from that, I'm open to that, but you gotta let me know because you I I can't read your mind.

SPEAKER_01 10:29

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and that's that's this whole conversation is like talking about we've got time to split this or at least partner on this. So, what are some things that you would want to help with, or do you not feel equipped to even make that decision because you don't really know the process? No, I'm happy, I'm happy to help.

SPEAKER_03 10:47

Here's the thing, I'm happy to help in any way that will that will lighten the mental load on you.

SPEAKER_01 10:52

Okay. I think it sort of gets back into the conversation that we had about instead of, oh, I'm I'm over here, just just put me in when you need me, coach. It's like really concrete, because the mental load of summer camp then stays on me entirely. And I'm just farming out certain pieces to you.

SPEAKER_03 11:11

Well, no, you just tell me what you want me to take. It's not farming certain pieces of you're like, all right, you're you're on our youngest, I'll take our middle kid. I see. Then great, and I'll figure that out for him and we'll go from there. And then we can decommit, I'll come up with a plan, we'll sit down and talk, and we can de-conflict because there'll be things ultimately that come up that you're like, oh no, you know, he can't be there that week because you know, grandma's in town. Yeah, he can't be, you know, whatever. So yeah, but I'm happy to do that.

SPEAKER_01 11:34

All right. Well, in anticipation of this little conundrum of how do we share it, which I would imagine other couples struggle with this just like we do. Absolutely. Um, I chat GPT'd a couple of suggestions. And I will tell you the one that I liked the best was that we divide the summer by week and basically say one week on, one week off. And then that way we know during the week that, and we can print out a calendar and literally label them mom week, dad week. Okay, and know on mom week I've got them. And so let's say camp does close or you know, there is a snafu with some pickup drop-off situation that we've arranged, it's on me to handle that. That is just not your responsibility. Okay. And then on weeks that it's yours, I just know whatever the kids are taken care of. We've signed them up for something and he got them otherwise.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

And so if we do that, then within our work weeks, because the one thing Chat GPT was saying is within our work weeks, then we can plan around that and I can schedule my Monday through Friday that week, knowing it's a little flexible because I'm on. So they basically they basically re recommended almost like a divorced parent model within a married household. But it struck me as like the the freeing thought of that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:58

That sounds good. So what you're saying is we would uh plan in the next month, the summer. Yep. And then as part of that plan, there would be on weeks and off weeks for each one of us. Yes. It wouldn't be like, we'll just plan on week, because here's the thing. Like what I don't want to do is like I'm responsible for planning every other week. No, because like that just breaks the continuity and it creates chaos. Correct. So I would want to make sure we're both on board with what the plan is for the summer and then determine what are on weeks and off weeks.

SPEAKER_01 13:30

Yes. And so then, so I brought that up to Chat GPT as like a hey, that could create a lot of chaos in our kids' lives because forget about us being six and going to this camp one week and this camp another week. Not to mention every camp has their different rules about apply sunscreen before you arrive. We want to apply it when your kid arrives. You know, do this with lunch, don't do this with lunch. It it's it's insane how many different rules and restrictions. So if they're oscillating between camps, then we got to learn all the rules and routines as they jump between camps. And that's not fun for anybody, let alone the kids. 100%. And there's no friendships that form, right? Because when they're bouncing around, the minute they become friends with Jimmy or Susie, now they're not going to camp with them anymore. Yep. So what ChatGPT recommended is that you and I have a session where we literally go week by week through the summer. We identify what the kids are gonna do, and then we decide who's gonna take on what task of getting all of that booked and arranged and just make a checklist between the two of us and know like you're gonna call the camp and book it. I'm gonna call my mom and make sure she can do drop off every day that week. Yeah. Right. And then we go back through and assign weeks based on our workloads. Sure. Because you might say, Oh my gosh, that week in July, no way can that be my week. Yep. And then great, that'll be my week. So that's what Chat GPT recommended. I actually really liked that.

SPEAKER_03 14:56

I think it's good.

SPEAKER_01 14:57

Okay. So then the next thing that I wanted to tackle is systems. So I just talked about how every camp has different requirements, different checklists. And I think we need to set up some systems in the house for camp, similar to what we've done in the laundry room, the pantry. We've talked a lot about organizing in our last conversations. And I think we have to set ourselves up for summer. So I would love to spend a weekend whenever we have that transition between school year and summer.

SPEAKER_00 15:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

Clean out the backpacks together. Typically, I do this all by myself. We clean out the backpacks, put in extra clothes that are summer and not winter, get a bin of sunscreen ready and label every bottle of sunscreen so we don't have them disappearing willy-nilly all summer. I don't know if you've seen the cost of sunscreen, but it's kind of like gasoline these days. So I would love to do that as a family and then talk to both kids about like every morning for camp. Here are the things you're responsible for and print some checklists for them. Yeah. Okay. Anything you would add to that for readiness for it?

SPEAKER_03 15:57

I'd want to do it in the starlight calendar.

SPEAKER_01 15:59

Oh, yeah, the skylight.

SPEAKER_03 16:00

Skylight calendar, yeah. Because that's something that I've seen, you know, typically I'm gone for work by the time the kids come downstairs. But in the mornings I am here, that is something I see our youngest go right over to there every morning and look what he's got to do and then press the button and say that it's done. So I think that that would be a good uh addition to just program it all in there and just kind of add it to their morning routine. Oh, that's great. But we'd have to do it week by week, like you said, depending on what weeks they're what camp.

SPEAKER_01 16:26

Yeah, yep, for sure. And I think we could probably do that. I don't know how to do different checklists by week in that system, but I'm sure they have a method because it's a beautiful, beautiful system. Okay, so I talked about that. And then the other piece, of course, is the the planning for friction. So in your bamboozled game, there was a curveball where my dad was supposed to come and he texted and said he can't come for an hour and a half. And that's that's going to happen.

SPEAKER_03 16:50

Well, that's just the ownership of whoever's weak that is.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

I was just about to say, I think that'll be taken care of by that. So I'm not sure that we have to necessarily do that. And then the other piece is, and this was something that I have seen a lot on sort of mommy blogs, is the thought of downtime, the thought of just being a kid, the kids are really overscheduled.

SPEAKER_00 17:09

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

And so I wanted to get your thoughts on how much of the summer should be scheduled. Obviously, they're too young to just like pay for work for the day and be like, play outside.

SPEAKER_03 17:19

But no, I listen, I I I uh one of the things that I'm very sad about for our kids is that they didn't have a childhood like I had. Um, but that that world doesn't exist anymore, unfortunately. It does not, Grandpa. Um, no, I mean, listen, I'm not that old. I'm you know, I was born in 81, but like, you know, my mom worked for the school district, so she was home. You know, she's a secretary, so she was home all summer. And there was there wasn't a need to worry about camp or anything like that. And like I literally, you know, the friends that I played with my entire youth are still buddies of mine today because, you know, that's what you did every day for eight hours, right? Like we were with each other all day playing baseball, and then one of us would be sleeping over at somebody else's house, you know, three nights a week. And like it was just, you know, that was that's that's what it was. That's not the world we live in today, though. And so um, listen, I I don't want them to be overscheduled because number one, I don't want to pay for that how much you skate. Yeah. Uh, but number two, I also think just having a day off where they don't have to worry about going somewhere else and they can just hang out at home is great. The problem with that, of course, is how do we make that work with our schedules and our oldest schedules? She's getting ready for college. I don't know how much she'll be around, but trying to plan in with in-laws and stuff like that. Um, but yeah, no, I I agree. I I don't think they should be overscheduled. I don't think they should be in camp every week, but I don't know what that looks like.

SPEAKER_01 18:38

Yeah. And that's where I think those curveballs become the hardest because at least with a camp, you know that it's their responsibility to figure out staffing. So if they have someone call in sick, it is what it is. With with our kids going to grandparents' houses or you know, hanging with our oldest or some teenager that we know in the neighborhood that could take them for a day and go to the pool. Like there's a lot of variability to that person's availability. 100%. And if that changes, now your day is bust. And so I just that's the worry for me, and that's what we've been juggling the last few years. And it's been a nightmare every and every summer I've said to you, I'm not doing this again. I'm not doing this again. They're going to keep five days a week.

SPEAKER_03 19:22

Yep. Yep. And and and that's the thing is I'm okay with that if that's where we land. But you know, in a perfect world, that's not the way it would work. But again, we'll have to we'll have to see. But then again, going back to staffing, that's what's so hard about booking summer camps, is like there is no last-minute drop-in summer camp.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

Not really. I mean, the one, the one at their elementary school is pretty good in that you can sign up for any number of days you need and any days of the week. And I know that's not the norm across the country. The parents I talk to say, you know, you got to commit to five days, or you have to commit to at least Monday, Wednesday, Friday, or whatever. We don't have to do that with our local camp, which is really co quite nice.

SPEAKER_03 19:59

And it's not a guaranteed spot.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

There's not a guaranteed spot. No. And and that registration opens at like midnight on the whatever day before the whatever day. And I swear it every year I tell you it's like waiting for Bon Jovi concert tickets or something stupid, or Taylor's Taylor Swift is the better. I was gonna say, yeah, but but you know, waiting for Taylor Swift concert tickets, you know, it's it's it's insane. Those spots, they fill up so quick. So yeah, so we'll have to look at that because I don't want them so overscheduled, but then that balance falls to us to staff it.

SPEAKER_03 20:36

100%. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

So that's really tricky. Although I do think our middle is getting to the age where on one of my work from home days, she could have a friend over us. Yes, 100%. And I could just passively like, you girls still doing okay. Here's the thing our son could not.

SPEAKER_03 20:52

Our middle child. Yes. I I don't trust as much as our oldest, but it's not that far off. No, right? Like she's a very mature young lady. Yes. If if our son was not here, I would have no problem leaving her home alone all day and just checking in on her periodically to make sure everything's good, right?

SPEAKER_01 21:09

Yeah. I mean, I would worry about that from like a rotting brain. Sure. 100%.

SPEAKER_02 21:15

But like but like not a safety, she's gonna but her and our son, they like all day, they would, they would, they would, they would be, they would kill each other by the end of the day.

SPEAKER_01 21:24

Oh yeah. Oh yeah, yeah. Well, and he's just not making decisions he's a six year old boy. He's a six-year-old boy. With ADHD. And yeah, there's an impulsivity control. It's a great combination. Absolutely. Highly recommend. Ten stars. Um okay, so we'll deal with when we do our planning and go through, we'll talk about downtime and try to plan in some downtime because I know the grandparents do want them. I don't think they're old enough for grandma grandpa camp in Michigan yet with your folks. But I do think maybe next summer they would be old enough for you to fly the two of them out there and then for me to. Fly out like three days after you leave to go pick them up and leaving them with your folks for like three days. But that'll depend on your parents' health and making sure that it's not too much on them. Cause I know they don't know.

SPEAKER_03 22:12

And again, if it was just our middle kid, we could send her out there and there'd be no issues. Oh, yeah. Like I said, brain rotten that kind of stuff. But like there wouldn't be any issues with like she's not gonna make stuff harder on grandma and grandpa. No, no. You know, our son is is a full-time job.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

Yeah. And she might actually be helpful to your parents. Hey, go run and grab this from the basement or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 22:32

Yeah, but all right.

SPEAKER_01 22:33

Well, we'll look at it.

SPEAKER_03 22:34

She's easier to please.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

So she's yeah, and she's just a good kid. She's a good kid. All right. So we are going to work on our summer sanity plan. Along the way, I'm gonna make some notes because I want to see if we can create any sort of blueprint that might be helpful for families. Yeah. I'm gonna float it out there on like a Reddit thread where I've seen parents trying to figure this out and not trying to figure out summer, right? Because that's not the goal. Like the the goal, the summer is different for every family, it's different for every kid. I'm not proposing you and I try to figure out summer for other families. I want to try to figure out how do you share this with your partner? Because from what I've seen on the blogs, typically moms are taking this on and they are doing it completely by themselves. And then they are looking at their partner and saying, Okay, I've booked summer and here's the one day I need you to take off, or I need you to drive them somewhere. And their partner's just like, cool, cool, and has no idea what has gone into that, or the anxiety all summer that some shoe is gonna drop with some camp and leave them stranded.

SPEAKER_03 23:36

100%. And the one thing I do want to say though is um we both work for in uh industries where summer is very light.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:45

And so we have that and can be.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:48

Um, so we both have that benefit, right? I I can't imagine like if you're if you're working in an industry where your summer is busy, yeah. Good lord. Yeah, like and trying to do summer, like it like it it's tough.

SPEAKER_01 24:00

I it makes sense why there are families who truly do sleep away camp all summer, just like if you can afford that, but if you can afford that, now you're talking about 10, 10,000, 20,000.

SPEAKER_03 24:11

Like I don't know what it's possible nowadays, but you know, a decade ago when or not a decade.

SPEAKER_01 24:15

No, no, no. I mean, truly, that is you were on the money just now. Like that is not it's crazy. Because when you look at the average sleepaway camp being, you know,$3,000,$4,000 for a session and a session being two to three weeks, and that's that's generous, right? There's some camps out there where it's seven grand for one of those three week sessions. If you then look at trying to stretch the entire summer with that, you are not far off by saying$20,000 to$30,000 per kid if you really want them to go to sleepaway camp for the entire summer.

SPEAKER_00 24:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

I mean, it's insane, it's madness. And yet, if you're like a tech executive and your summer is when you're doing RD and you know, launching new products and whatever, that might be what you end up doing. I don't know. But it makes it makes au pairs look really reasonable because you get an au pair for the whole year and it's that$20,000 to$30,000. Um, so I don't know. And I know a lot of families that do au pairs and they do them primarily for the summer so that you have a built-in live-in someone five days a week. And then that person can take them to the two hour baseball clinic. Right. I mean, you can only imagine what that would be like. But anyway, all right. So we're gonna make our game plan. We're gonna try to publish what we learn on our website, and we'll put it on some of the Reddit threads that I found where moms are pulling their hair out. Hang in there. We're gonna hang in there, and we'll see you next time.