The Mental Load of Personal Safety

In this episode, we’re talking about something deeply personal, often avoided, and yes… a little uncomfortable: the mental load of personal safety.

We come into this from very different places. One of us served six years on active duty in the military. The other swore she would never touch a gun, take a class, or even consider it.

And yet—here we are.

After years of quiet mental load, shifting perspectives, and growing concerns as parents, we made a decision we never thought we’d make: we took a firearms safety class—together.

This isn’t a political conversation. It’s not about telling anyone what to do.

It’s about:

•  What happens when your sense of safety changes 
•  How fear quietly builds over time 
•  What it feels like to challenge your own core beliefs 
•  And what it means to take a first step—even when you’re not sure where it leads 

If you’ve ever felt the weight of trying to protect your family in a world that feels unpredictable… this conversation might resonate.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:04

Alright, welcome everybody to another exciting edition of the Mental Load Chronicles. And before we get started with this one, I just want to give a quick disclaimer up front. We are going to be talking about personal safety and firearms in this episode. So if you've got little ones in the car or this isn't your cup of tea, then maybe this is an episode that's not for you. Let's talk. So yesterday, we did something that you had never done before.

SPEAKER_02 0:31

Yeah. And I'm really glad that you started by qualifying that we're talking about firearms.

SPEAKER_03 0:40

So, so let me give a little bit of context. So, uh, you know, as we've mentioned before, I was in the army. I'm I'm no stranger to firearms, was raised around them, taught at a very early age how to operate them. When we got married, you had what I would say is an aversion to them. Don't like them, don't want them around you, don't want them around the house. Yep. And so I've stuck with that until very recently your um opinion on that has started to shift, which led us to Pistol 101 class yesterday morning. So could you walk me through what's happened to you to now having a much different outlook on personal safety?

SPEAKER_02 1:23

Yeah, I mean, it's it's been a big part of my mental load over the last couple of years. And I think from talking to other Jewish mothers that I know, it has been for them as well. You know, political differences aside, opinions on Israel aside, all of those things, we're gonna tuck them to the side for this episode. And I think it's really important that we do because um, you know, we were talking even this morning about the word Zionist and how it has, you know, 15 different definitions right now. And depending on who you are, depends on whether, you know, is that your definition or is that a different definition, right? And so I I don't think I don't think we can get into that in this episode. I don't think for us, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:10

And so I think what's important to to say is that um you are Jewish, are you know one of our kids has had a bot mitzvah, another one's on her way. Yep. You know, all three of our kids are have either gone through Hebrew school or in he in Hebrew school. Yep. And that it's clear that anti-Semitism is on the rise. Yes. And recently there was a synagogue by where we used to live in Michigan that was like not our synagogue, but one that we It was around the corner. Right around the corner, right? Within three or four miles of our house that had the person drive through the front door of the the youth school there.

SPEAKER_02 2:47

Well, and we go to events and and I think so, so let me back up. So I think, you know, October 7th was certainly traumatic and certainly something that I think the Jewish community is still processing through. But it was not a moment where my opinion changed on personal safety or firearms. And I really, I think at that point had hope that it would be sort of this one-off moment and that we would move forward from it. And unfortunately, instead, I think the world has really devolved around Jewish sentiment. And I think there are still people who um want to be supportive, but it's really hard to assure our safety right now. It's really hard to feel safe. And, you know, synagogues have ramped up safety. And so there have been moments, Bondi Beach for me was the turning point. And and I don't know why that particular incident was the turning point for me. Maybe it's because I could picture our family there. And I I started to think about what would I do? What would I be able to do? And it really, really frightened me that if we were in that situation, you know, we're at an outdoor event with our whole family, and that starts to happen. I I don't know. What do you do? What do you do?

SPEAKER_03 4:06

Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 4:07

And it just terrified the crap out of me that I would not be able to do anything. And so it's been weighing on me because I did. I grew up in a household where you don't touch guns, you don't own guns, just don't be around them.

SPEAKER_03 4:21

And and I think that's one of the things that really adds to the significance of the mental load is anytime you're going up against core beliefs or like things that you've had drilled into you since a very young age. Yeah. Right. Like for me, it was very different for me. My, you know, we we my dad had a glass gun cabinet. You could always, you know, they are guns were always locked up, ammunition was always kept separate than guns. Like, like every it was it was very safe. But like it wasn't like uh, oh my God, there's a gun. Right. And then when I was like, you know, probably 13, 12, 12, 11, 13, we know we started going to the range. And my dad would teach us how to safely operate them. He wanted to demystify it.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 4:58

Right. So that it wasn't like, oh, I want to sneak off and play with this gun. It was you understand how this thing works. Yep. And and and also, I think it's one of the things that we we'll talk about that you experienced yesterday. Like, once you fire one, like you realize that's not a toy. No. Right? Like that's not simple, like it really takes a lot of the the intrigue and the curiosity and the the sexiness of it, you know, if you're a kid, out of it. But I but I think that when again, when you're going against core programming, yeah, it it just adds and here's the thing, and like, and that's the thing is the hardest things in life is when you have something you feel like you have to do, but you have core programming that says you can't do that, right? And so with you saying, I need to be safe, everybody has a a core need to be safe, but your teaching um from your upbringing is we don't mess with guns. Well, then how do you fight back against people who have guns? Well, I mean, like it's really hard to do.

SPEAKER_02 5:50

But I want to be really no, because I want to be really clear. I don't think for every person this this logic prevails of like, in order to feel safe, I have to know how to fire a gun or I have to own a gun or whatever. I know plenty of people that feel perfectly safe because the temple employs armed guards and they know that those folks are trained and they're there and they are going to protect them. And for me, it started to feel like not enough. True. And and I'm not saying that in the sense of like, I'm gonna go get my concealed carry and I'm gonna be, you know, packing, walking into high holiday services, right? Like that is not my plan. Yeah. I I just started to feel compelled to know what it felt like to pick one up, to fire one, and to do all of that safely.

SPEAKER_01 6:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:44

And recognizing, oh my gosh, if I was ever in the position and I don't even know. I mean, some of this is like your brain makes up these movie scenarios, right? And and I think let's talk about that with fear and anxiety with the mental load, is when you're stewing on something like that, and it has to do with your children, protecting your children. 100%. Your brain can go a lot of places. And and in those quiet moments, your brain goes to the worst of the worst situation.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

100%.

SPEAKER_02 7:13

And you start imagining yourself in these movie-like situations where there's like a gun and I gotta disarm it, right? Like I gotta figure out how to disarm this gun so it can't be used against me or my kids, or I've gotta I've gotta pick up a weapon and actually fire it at someone. And and the thought that I have literally in my entire life up to up until yesterday, never held a gun was terrifying in those hypothetical, you know, made-up situations in my brain. And and I kept processing it and process I mean, this is not something that I leapt into. This is not like on a Monday I looked at my own. No, you know, absolutely not.

SPEAKER_03 7:51

Because this is even something that, like, as things have been going on, I really think since COVID, when I started to feel because this thing, when you when you're in the army and and you study history like I do, like you see how fragile society is. Yeah. And and when you start knocking out foundational pillars out from underneath society, things things can go bad quickly. And then when they go bad, like they will go really bad. And so that's one of the things that with me, and I've been struggling with my myself, is my responsibility is protect our family.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:20

Right. And God forbid something happens. I didn't feel like I was equipped to do that. And so as I had been kind of breaching that topic with you, you know, since October 7th, um, hey, what do you think about this? Hey, what do you think about this? Like I I could feel that like you were more open to it, but not not like totally open to it until very recently. And then you were like, then that switch had flipped for you.

SPEAKER_02 8:42

But it, but that's the point I was trying to make is it wasn't very recently. It has been a progression over years. That's what I mean. Yeah. That's like there wasn't a light switch that flipped. There was a lot of rumination and a lot of just mental weighing. And and you know, when we talk about things like the mental load, the tricky part about it is it's the stuff you don't see, the the things you don't see my brain working on. And oftentimes I'll say something to you and you'll be like, oh, I didn't know you were thinking about that, or oh, I didn't know we needed to do that, or oh, I didn't know. And it's like, yeah, because I've been sitting on it for six months, or I've been, and and it goes for all kinds of things. But I think in this particular instance, and you know, and especially as stories have continued to come out from October 7th of what families went through in their own homes. You read those and you just think, What would I do? Like, what would I have done in that situation? You start to feel like sitting ducks a little bit. Yeah. And and that feeling, again, it just scared me, but but I wasn't sure what to do about it. And and quite frankly, there's a part of me that still isn't sure. I just started to feel ready about what the first write stuff felt like for me. And for me, it was I need to know what it feels like to hold a gun. I need to know what it feels like to hire a gun. I need to know how to handle it safely and appropriately. And then we'll see. And then we'll go from there. Yeah. But I just felt like there was this barrier between knowing what's right, and and that barrier was that I'd literally never been exposed, right? I mean, other than your service, where we would be faces and blown up and yeah. I mean, and and so like I knew what guns sound like outside, you know, ranges or far away. I I knew I know what explosives sound like. Like, I and to be frank, being in Israel the couple of times that I have, they're not shy. They walk around with, you know, everybody's walking around with a gun. It's like a backpack in Israel. And so you do, you you kind of, if you're there long enough, get a little desensitized to like, oh yeah, okay. But I I remember the shell shock getting off the airplane and being like, whoa, everybody's got a gun. Like, what is going on?

SPEAKER_03 11:00

Yeah, and I think what was eye-opening for me was, you know, because of my background, like it was when we were talking yesterday, you know, you you had a a thing at work after we were done in the class. Um, and you had mentioned something like, yeah, it was a really stressful day. And I was like, What do you mean? And you were like, Well, you know, I was, you know, I was, you know, I didn't sleep well the night before because I was worried about going to this class. And then I was worried while I was in class. And I could see your nerves, you know, when you were, you know, we were in stalls next to each other when we were firing. So I could, you know, I could see, you know, your nerves kicking in. Um, but I didn't realize like that you had been like carrying that the way you were.

SPEAKER_02 11:35

Yeah. I mean, even leading up to it, because once we booked a date for the class, then there's this day looming that like I'm gonna do this thing or I'm not. And and I think what helped me through the day was I gave myself the permission. You and I didn't talk about this, but I will share it with you. I gave my myself the permission to back out of that at any moment. Sure. And I'm not that person. Normally, when I book something or I do something or I commit to something, I follow through. Yeah. Like that is who I am. That is a part of my core identity, is follow through.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:09

So to sit in that class and go, I don't have to touch one if I don't want to. I don't have to go to the firing range part of this program. The other thing I did was I called a bunch of people and I said, Hey, we're gonna do this thing. Here's why I'm doing it. And if you feel so compelled, like sign up for the class and we'll all go. And we had a group of people, there were like six of us.

SPEAKER_03 12:32

Yeah, they were joking that you should have gotten a commission.

SPEAKER_02 12:35

Yeah, one of the other class participants was like, Does she get a discount? Because she got all these other.

SPEAKER_03 12:40

Yeah. It was, it was but no, but here's the thing. It's again, I believe it's something that everybody should at least do what you did yesterday to have a basic understanding of what what guns are and what they are not. Because I think people who don't know anything about them will never forget, you know, working in a school context and talking about school shootings and talking with a previous superintendent of mine who was like, I don't know why, you know, I don't know why they have to, you know, shoot them like that. Why can't they just wing them and shoot him in the leg? And I was like, Do you do you not understand like how this works? Like, that's that's not how this works. You know, it it's it's it's way different. It's more, it's more difficult than that. There's more nuance to it. But again, I think if again, if you are not, if you haven't done what you did yesterday and just taken that very basic first step, I think you have a very different understanding of what firearms are and aren't and what they can and can't do.

SPEAKER_02 13:28

But the other thing, if you think about it in that context, is and you've said this, the the pistols that they had us training on are like a step up from a BB gun kind of situation.

SPEAKER_03 13:39

It was a 22 for anybody who knows anything about ballistics, which is a very small round.

SPEAKER_02 13:44

Well, and and so, like, I mean, obviously, still incredibly potentially legal. Yes, absolutely. Still like, you know, it's nothing to make light of. And when we were in the range, our class was the only, we're the only people in that range. But next door was another range where just your average day citizens who felt like coming to the range that day were shooting, and they were all shooting a variety of equipment. And you could feel it in your chest when the bigger rounds were going off. And I remember that experience from you being in the service and us being on bases, where it was like, oh my gosh, that's that's something serious that they're doing. Whatever that is, that's a more serious thing that they're doing because you feel it, there's there's reverberation in your chest. There's reverberation in your body. Your your hairs actually go up, like people say they will, that like there's danger, right? That that physiological experience actually happens. And so I had already felt that. And I think honestly, that was a huge benefit because that was not my first time having that physiological response to danger is present. I am near danger, where you then have to turn on your brain and say, but I'm safe. And that juxtaposition of the hour that we were in that range of danger, I'm safe. Danger, I'm safe. Not to mention, you're watching people. The there was a group that went before us, and we stood in the back. And you're thinking at any moment in time, one of these people could just turn into a wack-a-doodle, turn around and shoot. Like they are holding loaded firearms, and I'm trusting that to keep that that nose downrange.

SPEAKER_01 15:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:22

And that could change in any second. I mean, it just it it messes with you, and the adrenaline and the anxiety and the all of that builds, right? And so, but I will have to say, because I want to go back to you saying everybody should do that. And what I would say is it's it's probably not the right thing for everybody to do the shooting range experience. Sure. That classroom exercise, I sat there thinking we should be teaching this to all high school kids, right?

SPEAKER_03 15:52

You know, the the one of those elementary schools that I used to have in my previous school district had a shooting range in the basement.

SPEAKER_01 15:58

I know.

SPEAKER_03 15:58

And the kids used to bring their rifles to school, put them in their lockers, and after school, they had their Boy Scout thing, they'd go in the basement and shoot.

SPEAKER_02 16:05

I know. But I think the understanding of just how to how to safely like how to be safe around 100%. And that's what that's like it was like an hour and a half.

SPEAKER_03 16:18

Yep. Um just class, straight up classrooms. Just classrooms. What's your posture? How do you stand? How does the gun actually work? Uh, how do how do you clear it? How do you like just all of that? All of that.

SPEAKER_02 16:29

How do you how do you pick it up properly? How do you yes, how do you ensure that no matter what, that must stay is downrange? Yeah. And what is downrange in an open environment where you're not in a range? There isn't a clear downrange. What does that look like? And I mean, there was just it she was far more law enforcement. So I think we got the benefit of that as well. But but I just think I I don't know, it was a very educating experience. Um, you talk about demystifying, it helped with that a little bit too. And and obviously, I mean, look, in different roles that I've had, I've been around law enforcement a lot. And so I am around people who are caring all the time. I mean, even last night at work, I was in a room full of law enforcement. So I don't have like the heebie jeebies around that sort of thing. And what I told the instructor is when she she came over to me when we got into the range bay, and she was wonderful. I mean, she was great. She reassured me, she said, I'm gonna stay here the entire time. I'm gonna stay here the entire time. And there was one moment she said, Why don't we do this together? And I said, Okay. And then she kind of helped me, like, okay, put this hand here, put this hand here, or like, I mean, she really walked me through it. And then she immediately grabbed back onto my hands and helped me lower the firearm because who knows where I'm gonna do that thing. And it was right, seriously, because you at that moment are just so your body has taken over. Uh huh. And so, and then she said, Okay, how do you feel? I said, Well, I'm still breathing. And she was like, Yes. She said, and you did hold your breath, and that's really good, you know, right? We just talked, but I I never got comfortable with it. I don't think I could actually ever get comfortable with it. But I left feeling like I would not be 1000% powerless in a bad situation. Yeah. And and and even just you and I were talking on the drive home about like now you know why it's so important to run in a zigzag pattern. Now you know why it's so important when we talk about with school shootings, to throw a chair at the shooter. Because now you've seen what kind of concentration and focus you have to have to try to hit your target.

SPEAKER_03 18:47

Even, and here's the thing, even with concentration and focus in a perfect environment, right? Yeah, no one's doing anything, and it's still hard to hit the middle of that target.

SPEAKER_02 18:55

Yeah. I mean, I had a trainer standing next to me. So now imagine concentrate and breathe. And and I get that I'm I am a very different person than someone who grew up around ranges, who grew up around guns, was well, well informed and and has had lots of practice. So I get that in those environments you're often dealing with shooters who but here's still you run in a zigzag, you just make it harder.

SPEAKER_03 19:23

Right. But one of the things you have to remember too is unless you have been a combat person in the military, you have not been in a in a in a gunfight where there's all the sights and sounds and feelings of that.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:36

Right. So even if you're a good shot at the range, like say the sights and sounds like a few.

SPEAKER_02 19:42

And that's that helped empower me to know, like, okay, wait a minute. If I were truly in that position, it's it's about getting into the mindset of like the worst thing I could do would be to hunker down and just try to like the hell out of it. No, right. And and that, I mean, there's there were certain things that were really informing and empowering about yesterday that had nothing to do with even holding the gun or shooting. The classroom itself, that whole piece about this is how it works. Um, the thought about jams and how many of us experience jams. Yeah. Where like, now I know what that is going to potentially sound like. And God forbid I was in that position. The minute that gun jams, okay, now I have the upper hand. Right.

SPEAKER_03 20:25

And it just Or somebody's changing a magazine. That's when that's that's when you that's when you make your that's when you make your move, either uh aggressively or defensively, you get that's when you move, right? Because it takes a second for them to drop it, put the new one in.

SPEAKER_02 20:39

Right. Now, this is all assuming that I'm in a situation where the assailant has that type of weapon. And obviously there are weapons that are much more sophisticated and et cetera. Um, but I it just I don't know. I when we got in the car and you asked, How are you feeling? I said, That did what I was hoping it would do. And and I don't know, like now I will have to think about it more in terms of just like, is there a next step? What is the next step? Or do I feel like that was enough to just at least because you're never gonna feel like, oh, I'm perfectly safe in this world. No, and you never are.

SPEAKER_03 21:17

Well, and the thing is you you could be Rambo and you know, it doesn't it doesn't matter sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 21:22

It doesn't matter. Well, and I mean let's just be real about the world and how the universe works. Like there are fluke accidents all the time with all kinds of so it is what it is. Um and I I don't know. I don't I don't know how we feel reassured as a Jewish community right now. I don't know how we feel reassured as a parent community, given all the school shootings, given you know the vulnerabilities to our kids. Like we talk about everything, the the drugs that are camouflaged as gummies, right? And all the things floating around the internet of like if your kid brings these home, throw, you know, call the cops like those are they're narcotics, they're not. Actually, dummies like tell your kid to eat things that other people offer them. It's so sad and it's so scary because I remember like eating brownies at friends' houses. I remember you know doing that. It just it's a different world. Um, it's really hard to be a parent right now. Yeah, it's hard to be a Jewish parent right now. And I I you know, I took the step that I felt was right for me. A couple of our friends came as well, they felt like that was the right thing for them. A couple other friends, I think, kind of politely declined, and that was right for them. Yep. And so I what I loved is um through this whole exercise of inviting other friends or talking to them about what I was gonna do, there was never any judgment of like, why would you want to do that?

SPEAKER_03 22:46

You know what's really funny is I had talked to um a couple people that I work with about it to just say that, like, hey, we're you know, we're going to do this. And the the response was, hey, you know what? Uh I'd never, I'm like your wife, I was never gonna do that either. But just recently, me and my husband had that conversation.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:04

And now we're looking to go, you know, I think one of them said we're gonna they were gonna go shoot clay pigeons, right? Like, like, but that's exact same reason where it was like, hey, you know what? Never felt the need to do this, never felt that it was needed, never wanted to, but you know what? Now, with everything that's going on, it's probably not a bad idea. Yeah, you know, yeah. And even the other people in the class were all older, we're all older individuals. Like they were all in their early 60s, I would say, the other people in the class, except for the one.

SPEAKER_02 23:30

Oh, no. I mean, there were a couple, and that uh gentleman was younger, he was our age. But but I think uh that one but I think, yeah, and everybody uh what I loved is she did ask, like, what's your reason for being here? Yeah. And a lot of people, you know, one woman said she hikes alone, and she hikes alone regularly, and she has started to feel unsafe on the hiking trails by herself as an older woman.

SPEAKER_01 23:53

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 23:54

And she wants to know that she would have the protection that she needs. And, you know, and another man said, Gosh, you know, I just feel like it's time. It's time for me to learn. So I so everybody had their own motivation. And I think what was great is the respect in that room for everybody's motivations. It was interesting because one of the women in the class uh said at the very beginning, she's a journalist, and her motivation for being there was to better understand gun culture, better understand who are the people who come for classes, who come to the ranges. And at one point I turned around to our group and whispered, I think we're all about to be in some sort of article article or media story. But I started to think about it in terms of her perspective of what she must be taking in as a journalist.

SPEAKER_03 24:39

And it was I think it's great that that that because here's the thing. Well, the one thing um that you will find about, but like there's a bad stereotype of gun owners. Yeah, right. And what but when you when you actually go in there, like they they'll be and ask just ask them what what what about this? What about they'll teach you, yeah, right? Because it's the it's one of the things that they love, like the same way you it wasn't your cup of tea, but you're glad you went through it. Some people like they love it. Like even the lady who's ours instructor, she's a she not just a former law enforcement, but she does um competitive shooting, like target shooting, right? And so she loves it. And so she'll she'll sit there and talk your ear off about anything you want to learn about. And so, you know, you just got to go in there and and talk to people, right? Because they're not a bunch of it's not the, you know, you remember when um uh Oklahoma City happened, right? And like the Michigan militia, and everybody, you know, they got that bath rap of like everybody, everybody who's got a gun is in a you know militia and they're you know, they're crazy people out in the woods who are gonna throw overthrow the government. Yeah, it's it's not what it's not what it is, it's not what it is.

SPEAKER_02 25:39

No, but I think when you grow up, like you said, in an environment where it really does have that stigma and it's and it it becomes a little bit of like an us versus them culture. Yeah. And I I just assumed everyone with a gun chewed tobacco, everyone with a gun. I mean, this is this is eight-year-old me, right? Like, oh, 100%. Yeah. Who was a gun owner, and I would have drawn them with a cowboy hat and then I would have drawn them out on a ranch. Yeah. And I would have, right? And I think, I think um, understanding that there are there are a lot of different people who have different motivations for wanting to become informed. Like maybe it's not gonna become your recreational hobby. Maybe you are never going to own a gun and put it in your home, but to just go get informed. I mean, the people in that class are not like, here I go, I'm gonna have a collection of 50 by the end of the each. There's no pa, you know. I mean, it wasn't, yeah. And then you peek into the other range to see like who's here, like who are the people on the other side? And and you could tell, like, some of them looked like they were uh military. And I know there's a lot in Colorado or or maybe for military, yeah, where that was a big piece of them, and it will remain a big piece of them. And right, like I just you start to kind of understand the backstory. Like, okay, so here was one thing that I was absolutely floored by, and I mean floored by. Okay. And one of the friends that we brought, she and I had this like whole conversation about it. We went to the ladies' room before we went to the range, and there's this dad with his two kids who are like, I don't know, five and seven, yeah, telling them to just sit on the couch because they have like a little waiting area. He's gonna go kind of have a conversation and do whatever, and they're just gonna sit on this couch. And he's like, and the the little girl was like, my daddy, and he's like, No, no, no, this guy's fine, because there was a guy sitting in that area. He goes, See, he's got an American flag on his chest. He goes, You can just trust anybody wearing an American flag, you know. And this little girl's like, Daddy, like, okay, daddy. And he goes over and he's now having a conversation about guns and ammo and whatever. And these two little kids are just minding their business, doing absolutely nothing on this couch, like sort of staring at guy with American flag on shirt. And and this friend of mine and I were like, I don't, I don't think it would have occurred to me to bring children in here. Like, I don't think this is the place I would have brought my children. Yeah. And it just occurred to both of us how different we grew up versus some kids, right? There are kids who will remember being five and seven, sitting in the waiting room of the gun shop, staring at the guy wearing the American flag on his chest while dad is over there doing whatever he's doing, and then they go home. I that was my first time ever being in a gun shop.

SPEAKER_01 28:33

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 28:34

That was my first time ever being around that much ammunition and whatever. And you served in the US military, right? Like, I mean, you I think at some point you just have to be real about, like you said, and and where this whole conversation started. The formative experiences that have formed your opinion on whatever it is, whatever taboo topic. That is what it is. And then you as an adult have to decide while it's weighing on you or you're thinking about it, okay. So now what?

SPEAKER_01 29:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:04

Right. And that's that's where I've been. And my honestly, I think um I this morning I slept it for the first time in weeks. Um, like really truly just slept. And I think it's because there's a piece of my mental load that got lighter yesterday. Good. And it just I you don't really think about it in those terms.

SPEAKER_03 29:25

But yeah, well, good. All right, anything else you wanted to share?

SPEAKER_02 29:28

I just, I just hope people if you know, if you've listened to this episode and you've gotten this far, you understand that there's no judgment, right? Like do it, don't do it, hate them, love them. I I don't really care.

SPEAKER_01 29:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:39

I think for me it's it's responsibility. I was just gonna say, yeah, and that's what yesterday was for me. Yep. And you know, I even made the comment to you, like, oh my gosh, I want to bring our two older children here, and not to go through the training yet, not to do that. I want them to sit in the firing range. I want them to know what this sounds like. Yeah, because there were certain there were some noises I would never out in public identify as a gunshot. And you hear about that in these shootings where people are like, I thought it was fireworks, I thought it was whatever, and and you get loss of life because people don't know and they don't know to run.

SPEAKER_03 30:17

Well, and it's not only that, but it's um it's such a novel thing that even though everybody is aware of like school shootings, you never think it's gonna happen at your school. Well, even if you have a high level of anxiety about it, you still never think it's gonna happen to your school. So when it happens, you you're right. There's a hundred percent that delay where there's that cognitive dissonance of that can't be that. That that's this can't be what that what that is. And so, and you don't want to be the person who freaks out, so you just kind of sit there and like like you said, you lose you lose precious time, or say, or malls or movie theaters or I mean.

SPEAKER_02 30:52

Unfortunately, at this point, we live in kind of the poster state for these these moments, which means some in the water in Colorado.

SPEAKER_03 30:59

Yeah, I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:01

So I I just want them to know what that sounds like and know what that feels like because the being paralyzed is what really led me to this whole process. Yeah, the thought of being paralyzed and how terrifying that is. And so anyway, so it helped me. Um, I don't know if it would help anyone else. I would say find a place with really good instructors.

SPEAKER_03 31:24

Yeah, and that's the thing is um the one the one thing I would say is just don't don't have that stigma stereotype in your head that you had to our to our audience of like gun owners being these big, scary, crazy people, right?

SPEAKER_02 31:41

I didn't think they were big, scary, crazy people. I just figured they were all alike, they were all the same type of person. In my mind, even as a kid, I never pictured them as big, scary, bad people.

SPEAKER_01 31:52

Gotcha, gotcha.

SPEAKER_02 31:53

Gun owners did not equate to bad people in my mind. It was just you had to be the type of person to hold a gun, fire a gun, know know how they worked, any of that, fill in the blank. Yep. And so, you know, and and and I will say, dating you and meeting your family didn't help because your dad falls a little bit into that stereotype. Not entirely. He's not on a ranch or anything, but it didn't have a cowboy hat. No, he doesn't not yet. I'm gonna get him one. He needs one. Um, he'd look good in one. But no, I just think it um, you know, that that notion of like you have to be fill in the blank, you have to be Republican, yeah, you have to be, you know, a big dude, right? You have to be like to hear some of the women who came who were not a part of our group, yeah, who were like, I don't want a pink pistol. And I was like, wait, what? Right. And it just those uh none of that ever occurred to me. It never occurred to me until my adulthood and I think everything that's happened, and then getting educated and starting to think about and what I'd say is there's every type of person who owns a gun.

SPEAKER_03 33:02

Yeah. Like every type of person.

SPEAKER_01 33:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:04

Because everybody cares about personal safety, and everybody has everybody gets to that point uh where they have to make that if they come to that same crossroad that you do. Not everybody t goes the direction you did, but everybody gets to that point at some point in their life where they're thinking about this stuff. And you know, peop people make decisions, and so there's every type of person that's there.

SPEAKER_02 33:26

Yeah, yeah. It really was informative.

SPEAKER_03 33:30

Yeah, and I guess that's what I would say is if if you're if you're intimidated, just just pick up the phone, right? Because like even calling, even if you're too scared to go in, yeah, pick up the phone and call them. Tell them what your, you know, your com tell them what your anxiety is. That like that, that it's their business. They deal with it. They they they can help you and then you know figure out whether it's right for you or not.

SPEAKER_02 33:48

But yeah, I mean, she had me pegged from from probably the minute I walked in the class of like, okay, she's the most terrified of the investors. And well, because I I noticed she when she would do a demonstration of any kind, she would start by looking at me and doing the demonstration. And then she'd do the demonstration for the other side of the room.

SPEAKER_03 34:09

Yeah, because there's 11 of us total in the room. Yeah. Six and five. Yeah, we were split up.

SPEAKER_02 34:12

But it really became very clear that like she she got body language and she got facial expressions and she understood. And, you know, and having us go around the room of like, why are you here? With me going, you know, I swore I'd never touch a gun, be around guns, hate guns, wish they didn't exist, right? Like I I'm sure my introduction just reinforced everything she had already thought about me. But what I loved is she didn't then label me as like the the scared kiddo in the class who you know, whatever.

SPEAKER_03 34:45

Because you were there, right? You you I mean, here's the thing, you have all that all that anxiety and stuff, but you still were there. Yeah, yeah. Which which says a lot.

SPEAKER_02 34:52

Yeah. But I I definitely think finding a place that is going to treat you in that way is paramount. And I just, I just needed someone who was gonna meet me at my level, and she did. So I mean, real kudos to her. But 100%. Anyway, all right. Well, uh, I think we've talked enough about this topic, but uh, we would be really interested to hear if you have reactions from this episode. I think it's maybe one of the most, I don't know, taboo, borderline, whatever you want to call. Yeah, which which yeah, it's I know, but we gotta talk about this stuff, and that's part of the mental mode is we don't talk about this stuff. And I was I was petrified to reach out to some of the people I reached out to thinking, what are they gonna think of me? What are they gonna think of this situation? Am I gonna lose these friendships?

SPEAKER_03 35:33

Oh, you know, everybody's thinking the same stuff right now because here's the thing, every single person in America, we may have all disagreements on what's causing our current situation, but no one is in denial that we are in a situation at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 35:45

Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_03 35:46

Yeah, global, global, sure. Global, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 35:50

I mean yeah, so anyway, so I just I would say talk about it. It it really I you know again, I was raised not to talk about it, not to look at it, not to like just stay away. Yeah, and it doesn't do anyone any good. And so just at least start the conversation with someone you trust, even if it's even if it's the opposite of this. I I don't I'm never gonna touch one. I'm never gonna be around around one. Like it it does help to talk about it, I think. Anyway, thanks for joining us. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_03 36:19

See you next time.