Working Moms, Working Dads, and the Guilt Gap

Being a working parent is hard. But being a working mom often comes with an extra layer of guilt, expectation, judgment, and invisible logistics that can feel impossible to set down.

In this episode, we talk about the difference between being a working mom and a working dad — not because dads don’t carry stress, but because moms are often expected to work like they don’t have kids and parent like they don’t have jobs. We unpack the guilt of missing bedtime, the pressure to be everywhere, the double standards around showing up, and the way home responsibilities can still feel like they all belong to one person, even in a partnership that is trying to be fair.

We also talk about the difference between being hard on yourself and being held to impossible standards, why “good enough” can be so hard at home, and how letting one ball drop might not mean you’re failing — it might just mean you’re human.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:06

All right, the mental load chronicle. Um, so today we're gonna talk about the mental load of moms who work and dads who work. And I genuinely want your thoughts and opinion on like what you go through. Yeah. Because I know what I go through and I know a lot of the societal pressures. And the last couple weeks I've really felt it because I've just been working, working, working, working. And our kids have kind of said something to me about it. And I I've just really noticed. I mean, I've I've missed up several times. In fact, today I nearly accidentally canceled a play date that our son was really looking forward to. And I just stood upstairs for a minute in our bedroom going, man, I'm a terrible mom. I'm just like a terrible mom.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

You are not a terrible mom.

SPEAKER_03 0:50

Well, and our oldest was like, You're not a terrible mom. You've you've been juggling a lot. And we're we're gonna take a trip this summer. We've been planning that. Yeah. And there's just been a lot going on. And so I think the the pressures, the load on working moms, and that's not to say that being a stay-at-home mom is not tremendous, and it's a lot of work. In fact, I was just talking to another mom about it about she's getting ready to go back into the workforce and she's trying to flesh out her LinkedIn. And she's like, you know, LinkedIn now has a description you can put in for gap time. Oh, cool. Yeah, and you can put in like the skills and what were you doing during that gap time? And she's like, How do I say that I was managing like a manager and you know, logistics ninja is what I said to you the other day that I feel like a logistics ninja with our kids. Yeah. And so there is a real stress and burden, and I think you've even said something to me over the last couple weeks about how you can visibly see my stress.

unknown 1:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

Was there a question there?

SPEAKER_03 1:54

No, I just feel like I've been babbling.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

No, I listen, I I I think it is it is uh very unfortunate, and I don't see a way out of it for our modern society. I think households work better with one breadwinner, could be male or female, husband, wife, husband, husband, wife, wife, whatever, and one person at home. Because being a homemaker, for lack of a better term, is an incredibly difficult, stressful, full-time job. And when you add on top of that, the the the fact that both of us in our household not only work but have very stressful, high-level jobs where we have dozens of people reporting to us and we work at big, you know, big time institutions. It's not something where we don't have jobs where you have a nine to five shift and then you come home and you forget about it.

SPEAKER_02 2:44

Right.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

You know what I mean? Like I remember my dad growing up, he was in he was working in the auto industry, and you know, he'd have overtime quite a bit, but most of the time my mom was home, or my mom was working at the school that had uh, you know, as a secretary having a a set schedule. Yep. And if my dad worked overtime, that was great, but when he was home, he was home. There was no extra calls after hours. There was there was no nut there was none of that. And I think there's just a high level of stress. And and again, when you have both of us in these roles, there's there isn't anybody to pick up that slack at home. Now we've been pretty blessed, and neither one of us have hit like a thousand miles an hour simultaneously. Yeah. Um, but that doesn't mean that that there's still not uh a high level of of of what's expected of us at work all the time.

SPEAKER_03 3:31

Well, we did during COVID. We hit a thousand people, but then we were home with the kids.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

And that was that was a whole yeah, it was a whole nother level of of stuff. But um, yeah, I mean I it's it's it's really, really difficult. I think you hit the nail on the head. More is expected of moms because you're still expected to be a mom and a in a in a homemaker while also working that job. It and it's it's it's really really tough. It's really, really tough.

SPEAKER_03 3:57

Well, and I think the hard part for me is there's still that sentiment of like like you and I will go do something at one of the kids' schools, and there's a lot of like, look at him, like he he came and he did this thing, or he's there at the band concert, or like tonight, you know, there at the gymnastics meet. There will be infinitely more moms than there will be dads. Sure. Now there will be dads, and we've seen some dads there.

SPEAKER_00 4:22

But also, like if we were taking about we were taking our son to a baseball tournament, there'd be way more dads.

SPEAKER_03 4:28

Could be, yeah, could be. I don't know. When I talk to your sister, there's a ton of moms.

SPEAKER_00 4:32

Well, and that's not to say that's not to say there won't be a ton of moms, but there's gonna be more dads than moms, I would imagine.

SPEAKER_03 4:38

Maybe. I mean, when when he's done I9, we've had a lot of mom coaches where the mom steps up to coach.

SPEAKER_00 4:45

Because of the the level of of baseball and the organization that that that that it is. I mean it's not it's not a uh it's not a anyway.

SPEAKER_03 4:54

Anyway, my point is I think a lot of credit, like extra credit, goes to dads when they show up to those things. Sure. Moms, I think by and large, are like expected to be there. And then there's a lot of I've taken black for not being places because I have to work. And it's like, oh, she's prioritizing her job over her children.

SPEAKER_00 5:15

Yeah, but taking black from who? Because like I don't say that. Like who who says it? Who don't?

SPEAKER_03 5:20

I uh we've got a few family members that have. And I think the other piece says the moms, right? And that's the piece that's killing me right now is the mom on mom anger.

SPEAKER_00 5:31

Mom on mom violence.

SPEAKER_03 5:32

It is, it is though. It's mom on mom judgment.

SPEAKER_00 5:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:36

The oh you uh you know are choosing your job or you work too much, or how could you choose to work so much and not be with your children? Don't you miss them all day? I mean, there's just and then the railing in the other direction of like, oh, you're just a stay-at-home mom. Like you don't know.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

Yeah, that's and that no, and that's that's BS. You know what I mean? Like that's that's total BS.

SPEAKER_03 5:56

I think there's guilt no matter what. And I know over the last couple weeks, as I've been working really late or haven't had the kind of time to give like our middle kiddo is big on covers and she wants to cuddle every single night. And there have been several nights where I haven't been able to, or the nights where I'm not able to tuck them in because like I gotta I gotta keep going. So you tuck them in. And you know, I think with our son, he's had a couple nights where that's been a real joy for him because he wouldn't ask for it, but he would maybe want that instead. Sure. But then I feel tremendous guilt because I'm not seeing that.

SPEAKER_00 6:30

Yeah. Well, so here's the thing, like I I I I think I I think that self-guilt that you're talking about is a large part of it. And I think you need to figure out like how to how to be okay with that.

unknown 6:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:43

You know, and and and I and I don't know how to I I don't know how to, you know, help you with that. You know, with with me, it was just something that I've always I want to spend as much time as I can with our kids, but I don't feel bad when I can't because if I have to work, like it's just it it is what it is, you know, it's practical. Right, it just it is. And and the other thing too is it's I think it's also healthy for the kids because it helps them learn, you know, it helps them set realistic expectations, it helps them learn that, you know, things not always gonna go their way, that there's gonna be different types of situations. And I, you know, I I think that there's a I think there's a benefit to it. Now, if it was every night, no, but like, you know, two nights, three nights a month, like is not the end of the world.

SPEAKER_03 7:23

No, and that's true. I think too, you know, I'm in a really reflective state because our oldest just graduated from high school, and you see, you know, you're sitting there watching her on the stage flip her tassel and realizing, I think it was yesterday that we were starting kindergarten. And so when you realize how fast it goes, when you realize those little nights, those little micro moments, those are the moments. That is the stuff. That's the that's the whole of parenting.

SPEAKER_02 7:54

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 7:54

And so it's not the it's not the big trips that you go on. I mean, yeah, that's part of it, but it really is in the day-to-day moments that we spend with them. Yep. And so then I feel even guiltier when I don't spend those little moments with them. And so I think that's that just weighs on me, and then, you know, and then balancing the stuff, right? I mean, so there's the guilt part of it, but then there's the like, how do you actually get so and so to such and such? Well, so and so's got to get to such and such, and then you gotta get somewhere. And so just even that over the last couple of weeks, it is mentally exhausting.

SPEAKER_00 8:28

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 8:29

Being on a conference call.

SPEAKER_00 8:30

Well, and here's here's the thing. I I I from the outside looking in, I I see this the is predominantly the stress that you have at work currently manifesting in other ways. And I I haven't seen any fall off in you, you're an amazing mother. You're you're you're uh you're uh a total ass kicker, and uh I haven't seen any fall off whatsoever. I I think you might be self-conscious because you're uh under so much stress and it's just discombobulated.

SPEAKER_03 9:01

That's a that's an interesting I hadn't really thought of it that way, just because you're right. I and I've said this to you before, I feel like I'm always failing somewhere. If I'm at work, I feel like I'm failing at home. Or if I I should say if I'm successful at home, I feel like I'm failing at work, and then vice versa.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

Yeah, I always feel like I'm not successful anywhere because I'm not all fully all in at work because there's always something going on that we I have to get away for. And I feel like I'm never here when I need to be because I'm given at work. And so to me, I just that's the most frustrating part for me is I just never feel like I'm a hundred percent at either spot.

SPEAKER_03 9:38

Yeah. And mentally too, because we've had so many things happening lately with preparing for her graduation party and um some of the stuff going on with our son with his ADHD and things that we're doing to try to help him. And in all that chaos, it's like I'm not really processing everything I know I need to be processing at work. Yeah. Because I'm trying to think about how to get him the support he needs and how to how to do that. And then summer too, right? Because now we're in summer, and so now it's like, oh, what camp are they going to today? I sent the wrong kid to the wrong camp. I mean, I did. Fortunately, they just wrote me a thing and said it's no big deal, we'll we'll just do a drop-in fee for the day. So thank goodness they were flexible and I didn't have to leave work, drive to get her, and then figure out what to do with her for the day. But I think it was honestly, I think it was that moment where I was like, oh my gosh, I sent my kid to somewhere she wasn't supposed to be for the day. Yeah, I'm really failing.

SPEAKER_00 10:38

No, and that's the thing is to me, it's uh it's not failing, it's just again, you you're under I I think this might be, you know, one of the most stressful times you've had in your career. And in a while, yeah. And it and it and this is the kind of stuff that happens. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, and that's the other thing too, is you know, it you know, it it's not one kid, it's not two kids, it's three kids, plus all that stress at work.

SPEAKER_03 11:04

Yeah, and the dog yes we sent her to training.

SPEAKER_00 11:06

Yeah, so like there's a lot going on, and there's that's that's if that's the worst that happens, we're good. That's true. I mean, yes, very hard. You're you're very hard on yourself. You're very hard on yourself.

SPEAKER_03 11:18

I am hard on myself, but I also think society is hard on working moms.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

Uh but I think you're hard on you right now. I I don't disagree with you that society is hard on working mom. I just think you're being extra hard on yourself and you should.

SPEAKER_03 11:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:32

You gotta give yourself some grace.

SPEAKER_03 11:34

Yeah, how do you let it go? Yeah. I mean, how do you and that's honestly, you know, when we started this podcast, that was part of my goal. Was like, how do you let some of it go? How do you and and and how do you shift some of those responsibilities, but then also how do you just let some of it drop? And I think for me, I'm not a ball dropper.

SPEAKER_00 11:54

Like I just Well, you know, one of the things that uh I learned from you early in my career, you know, in your career, you know, you d decades ago. God, I can't believe I just said that was that like you know, we were talking through once about like, you know, there's a lot going on at my job, and you're like, well, you just gotta go to your boss and lay it out for him and say, hey, what do you what are your priorities? What do you want me to do? Because like I can't get to everything right now, but I can get to all of it eventually. So tell me what order do you want me to do this in, right? And and it was just such something that had never occurred to me, you know, because you never want to like show weakness in front of your, you know, or show that you're overwhelmed. But that's the thing, is it just being honest and being real with your with your boss to say, like, hey, I this is a lot. I'm happy to do it, but just tell me what order you want it done in so I can make sure I'm meeting your expectations. And just that reframing is great. And I think that, you know, it's that same type of thing that you need to do, maybe internally, is just say, what's the most important thing I gotta get done?

SPEAKER_02 12:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

And then the other stuff is just gotta, you know, it'll it'll stack in and it'll get there eventually. And, you know, it is what it is.

SPEAKER_03 12:59

Well, when we did that with her graduation party, and I actually had a lot less stress that day. I mean, mainly because our middle kiddle just like Yeah, she was a rock star. She was amazing, but also because I had this huge checklist of the things I wanted to get to, including making sure our basement was ready for people to hang out in the basement. And I think it was the day before or something, and I looked at you and said, I don't think that's getting done. I think we just turn off the lights, close the basement.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

I think I had been telling you that for like a week that like, oh we don't we don't need to worry about the basement. Like just close, like you said, close the door and we're good. People don't need to go to the basement to hang out.

SPEAKER_03 13:37

Yeah, and I think you'd been telling me that for months, not just a week. But but it was my goal because I knew we were gonna potentially have some little kids and have them over, and and we did, and it ended up being okay. They went down to the messy basement, they played in the messy basement, they made it messier than it had been, and they went home. And so it was just this stress and this worry of we've got to get this part of our house ready. And and I'm I'm I'm good at it at work, right? This has to come before this, this thing cascades into this, and for whatever reason, at home, it all feels like the highest priority and it all feels easy.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

Yeah. I I think, and I know this is hard because you're you're a perfectionist, but like you have to learn to not be a perfectionist all the time at home.

SPEAKER_03 14:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

Like it's okay if we have to order a pizza, right? Like, like, like it's okay if the basement doesn't get clean for this graduation party, right? Like it's okay if you know the side the the our backyard is the best it's ever looked, our back patio is the best it's ever looked. The sides of our house are a hot mess because they're still under construction, right?

SPEAKER_03 14:38

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 14:39

So, but it's like if that's okay, right? Like they're good, they're good enough.

SPEAKER_03 14:43

Well, no, right, and I couldn't worry about rationalize, like nobody was gonna be on the side of us, right? And so that didn't work.

SPEAKER_00 14:49

But that's the thing is like like just letting yeah, just letting that kind of stuff just roll off your back because you know, control what you can control and you do the best job that you can, and then you just let the chips fall where they may.

SPEAKER_03 15:00

Well, and I think too, that's where I really feel badly for working moms who have partners that feed into the high expectations. And I really appreciate the fact that you don't. You have never, you have never like even even ribbed at me, even jokingly just kind of haha, you didn't make dinner tonight kind of thing. Or, you know, like you've always been the one saying, let's just order in tonight. You've had a rough week, or you don't really want to.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

If there's stuff there that I know how to make, you're right, like the other day you were like, Hey, can you make dinner? Yeah, what do we got? You know, and I and I put something together. Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_03 15:36

Well, and I just appreciate that because I think and and I'm curious for you. You know, you came out of a pretty conventional upbringing with a mom who, until you were into kind of late grade school, was a stay-at-home mom. And um, and then had another kind of bout as a stay-at-home mom when your surprise brother came. And so you had a mom who sort of greeted you at home after school with a snack and you know had dinner on the table every night and was just more of the sort of stereotypical, like conventional mom norms, right? Yeah. And and you're in a pretty unconventional marriage because I work, I've always had career ambitions. And so I'm just curious for you how you think any of your like upbringing framing because I've noticed it, it I've noticed a shift through our marriage.

SPEAKER_00 16:26

You know, I I you know, I I would say that there was, you know, when my mom did a lot, but my dad, it's not like my dad didn't do it.

SPEAKER_02 16:34

Yeah, well yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 16:36

But it, you know, and I think that I think anytime you have a relationship, there's a feeling out process of like, what is what are they gonna do, what am I gonna do, what are their responsibilities, what are my responsibilities? And I think that you took a lot of real estate, so to speak, of taking on a lot of that stuff. And then I think as you've expressed to me, this is a lot, then I'm happy to, you know, step in to make it a more even, you know, split of of the duties. So yeah, I mean, I it that's the thing, is like uh I you know one of the things my grandma said to me, said to somebody else, and I overheard it once. She said something to the effect of like, you know, he's always been the one who's the mo the most fair. He just wants what's fair. And I I think that's a good way to describe kind of my out my outlook, right? Like I I just want I want an you know an even split, right? Like we're partners. And there's some things that you do better, right? There's some things I do better. Yep. And then, you know, and and sometimes it's, you know, I do some things that are more regular, but you do some things that are a heavier lift, but you know, like taxes, right? Like you do our taxes. Yeah, but but but I do all the dishes, right? Like I do all the lawn work. Like there's that's more regular than taxes, but hell, I don't want to do taxes, right? So you just you just find a way to to just be fair. And uh I I I that's one of the things that like I don't understand. Like you mentioned that that mindset of like saying to your spouse, like, you know, you know, riding them if if if everything's not perfect. Like I I just I I I that's something that's completely foreign to me. I I can't even I can't even understand that that mindset.

SPEAKER_03 18:13

Well, and I do think even though your folks hadn't have a pretty conventional marriage in the in sort of the gender norm sense, they have a very respectable marriage. 100% the hell out of your mom, and your mom respects the hell out of your dad. And so I think that is part of what works between us too, is like I respect the hell out of the things that you bring to the relationship, and vice versa. And and what's really funny is, and I was actually thinking this last night, is how long it's taken me, and I I I know you don't have the same reaction to this, but I have always had one of the you do it because you're better at it than I am.

SPEAKER_02 18:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:51

And I feel like in a lot of marriages, that's a cop-out of like you're better at this than I am, so you go ahead and do it. And it's basically saying, I'm not gonna learn how to do it, or I'm not gonna get better at doing it. And that's how I had read it in the past when you would have said that to me. And especially since we've been going through this exercise, now I don't hear it that way anymore. And so it was funny because last night we're getting packed for our trip, and um you had thrown your stuff in the express, the or not express, but the vacuum seal bag. Yeah, yeah. And uh you said, Where should I put it? I said, just in the suitcase, just throw it with mine. And it was like hanging out of the bag and whatever.

SPEAKER_00 19:31

Yeah, just set it right on top of the and you said, What?

SPEAKER_03 19:34

You're like way better at that than I're you're like Miss Tetris, yeah, right?

SPEAKER_00 19:38

Like so because that's the thing is like if if I had put it in there the way I thought it should go, you you would have walked over and done the same thing anyway. Right. So I so I'm just saving you the time of having to unpack what I packed.

SPEAKER_02 19:50

Right.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

And then then that creates drama because then I'm like, well, what I pack's not good enough. So I just don't. You just surrender and say, okay. I mean, like, there's it's there's just no point, you know, there's no point.

SPEAKER_03 20:01

No, but I do think that can that can be used for so many things. Of you cook dinner, you're a better cook than us. You know, you do the laundry, you fold better than I do.

SPEAKER_00 20:11

Yeah, right. And and here's the thing, you do do do you do fold better than me. I do 99% of the laundry. You do cook better than me. Uh you cook five nights a week, I cut I cook two. Right. Doesn't mean I don't do it. Right. Right. It's just but I could see you no, but I agree. I could see where that could be a cop out in some another relationship.

SPEAKER_03 20:28

And I've heard that before from friends before that have expressed, like, well, he just tells me I'm so much better at changing the baby's diaper.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

And it's like, no, that's to just go change the baby's. That's just BS, right? Like that's BS.

SPEAKER_03 20:40

Well, but also I could see where if you are, especially like you're a stay-at-home mom or you're coming off of maternity leave or whatever, there are some things you probably do know how to do better. I'm gonna use the word better in air quote, with your children than your spouse who's working and isn't around them all. 100%. And we actually experienced that when you came home from Germany, you finished your military service, and I had been around our oldest for not quite a year by myself, but it was a long time. And I was like, no, no, no, let me show you how she likes her juice. No, no, no, let me show you how she and I know that was endlessly frustrating for you because it was like, can't she just have it that way? And it's like, well, but she and I had gotten into a routine. Sure. And so there were things that I did quote unquote know better. Uh-huh. And we had to really ease back into you being more involved. Because I was like, I got this, I got this, I got this. Yep. And it took a long time for you to be more a part of the day to day and that reintegration. And I think about like military families who do that constantly, and it just must be so hard and so painful.

SPEAKER_00 21:48

Yep. So painful. Yep. Well, and the other thing too is I mean, not to not to belabor the point, but you know, I I had a great six years in the army. There's a lot of those situations like that where guys are coming back from combat, they're coming. Back from you know the worst six six to twelve months of their lives, they've seen a lot of crazy stuff and their nerves are fried and they're overwhelmed, and then they come back and they don't know how their daughters likes their juice. Right. And like that's that's that's tough. Yeah, that's tough.

SPEAKER_03 22:14

Yeah, it is really tough. It's funny because there's that sort of meme around the internet, and and I often wonder how true is it? It's the skit of like women trying to go out for dinner and constantly answering text messages, phone calls of like he can't find his blanky, which is the blanket. I'm looking at all the blankies, which blanky is it? And I don't know why he won't eat the peas. Oh, because you have to mix the peas in with the pasta or he won't eat the peas, you know, all of those things. And they get so frustrated and flustered that they can't even go out for the night and the night ends early because they all have to go home to sort of rescue their husbands who have no idea what they're doing because they're not the one to typically do the thing. And it's interesting because I don't, I don't worry about that or think about that. Like when I go out or go do something or I'm away, I don't freak out that the kids are gonna suddenly not eat or that they're gonna have the wrong stuffed animal or that they're you know most of that.

SPEAKER_00 23:09

Well, right, but if they do, like to me, the big thing is you should like I I try when you're out doing stuff, like I try not to bother you because like I don't want to add like stress or you know, you're out. And like there's nothing that can happen that's that bad that can't get fixed when you get home. There's no reason to add that stress while you're out, right? Like, go out, whatever. The kid doesn't eat dinner, great. The kid doesn't eat dinner. We'll load them up on ice cream, they can eat something healthy in the morning, right? Kids not falling asleep because they don't have the right thing, eventually they're gonna get exhausted and fall asleep, right? Like it is, it is what it is. It's okay.

SPEAKER_02 23:42

Yeah, it's okay.

SPEAKER_00 23:43

If you're doing it every night, that's a problem. Right. But like on the on the once in a blue moon, you get the opportunity to go out with your friends, yeah. Don't don't bother your spouse. Let them go out and have their time and figure it out.

SPEAKER_03 23:54

But even more than that, you've worked hard to be like, oh, I'll put him to bed tonight, so that there's some consistency to that, so that it's not like, well, mom's the only one who can. Yeah. And I think so many in so many marriages, it falls to like, mom's the only one who can tie my shoes because she knows how to tie my shoes the way I like it, or you know, just whatever. She packs my lunch every day. And so because I think you and I have spent the last year or so just trying to consciously rotate those things and trying to because we did have it where for the first couple years of his life, I think I put him to bed every single night unless I was truly not available. And now we have it where every once in a while you just put him to bed. And I think those things really help, and it um has helped ease the burden a little bit because then if I have to work at night, it's like, well, you got it. And I don't worry that he's gonna be screaming at the top of the stairs anymore. Yeah. So because that that definitely layers into guilt, right? I want mommy. Yeah. And then you just feel like, oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_00 24:57

Yeah. So but like that's the thing, is like um, I hate to tell people a lot of things like that. It's like it's real easy to just say, you gotta let it go, right? Like, but but but I don't know how to say it any better than that, you know. Like it just it is it is what it is, and and and I know it's tough. But uh again, if again, if you were doing it every night, that's a problem. If it's every once in a while, like it's good for him. It's good for other, you know, it's good for our kids to have that novelty and that flexibility to be able to, you know, survive when things aren't always the way they want them to be.

SPEAKER_02 25:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:31

It doesn't help that in this same time period I lied to our son. And we're gonna we're gonna save that for the next episode because we're gonna talk in the next episode about lying to your children, white lies versus maybe not so white lies, lies that backfire. I think I think in that moment I realized we lie to our children way more than I thought we did. So we'll talk about that in our next episode because that doesn't help with my mom guilt whatsoever. But I think that's it. That's it from me in terms of just being a working mom. It's hard. It's really it's really hard. It's hard not to be, it's hard to be a stay-at-home mom, it's hard to be a working mom. We need to stop bashing each other for whatever choices we've made, part-time, working from home, stay at home, work in the office, traveling working mom.

SPEAKER_00 26:20

Here's the thing, I you know, social media is so much about like manufactured jealousy. And it you just everybody picks what's best for them and their family, and you just it's fine. Yeah, it's fine. Like you there doesn't need to be there, doesn't need to be such right. Like, like it was funny that a couple of my friends have always joked about, you know, their their their wives make way more than them, and they've always joked about how like they're looking forward to retiring and like just going and golfing every day because you know they're gonna be kept men because their wife makes, you know, more wives make enough to for them to do it. And it's like I'm not like, oh how dare you spend the day at the golf course because your wife makes a lot of money. Like, no, like good for you, man. It doesn't matter. Yeah, it doesn't matter. So I I don't know the I to me it's completely foreign to me this concept of like sniping at somebody because they've made a choice that that you didn't make. Like, who who cared? Yeah, yeah. Let let you know, let bygones be bygones.

SPEAKER_03 27:14

Well, I would love if anyone's listening, and if you are very content with the choice that you made, whether you work, you don't work, you work part-time, whatever, if you have found a way to be content with whatever decision you've made, I'd love to hear from you because I don't know if there's a if there's a choice you can make in life, especially when it comes to raising children, that results in being like politically, right? No, I don't. It's it's hard to raise kids. It's hard to raise kids, kids whether you work, you don't work, there's always guilt, there's always pressure. Yep. But but can you be content in your choice? And so if anyone out there is is a child, I'd love to hear what that's like and how you got there. Yep. All right. Well, that does it for today. See you next time.