Why High Expectations Are Ruining Your Golf | Jared Tendler Psychoanalyses a Near-Scratch Golfer (Part 2)

"When you say high standard, I think expectation. And expectations are hidden guarantees." — Jared Tendler

Last week, Jared Tendler psychoanalysed Dave's golf game and uncovered some uncomfortable truths about confidence, insecurity, self-worth and performance.

This week, it's Chris's turn.

On paper, Chris is the golfer most amateurs aspire to become. A low handicap player capable of shooting under par and pushing towards scratch golf.

But Jared quickly uncovers a different challenge entirely:

Perfectionism.

High expectations.

And a mindset that's quietly making improvement harder, not easier.

Why do so many good golfers struggle to enjoy the game?

Why do high standards sometimes hurt performance instead of helping it?

And how can ambitious golfers pursue improvement without becoming trapped by unrealistic expectations?

This conversation explores golf psychology, perfectionism, confidence, expectations, resilience, mental toughness and the hidden mental mistakes that often hold good golfers back.

Whether you're trying to break 100, break 90, reach single figures or chase scratch golf, the lessons in this episode apply far beyond elite golf.

In This Episode:

✅ High expectations vs healthy standards

✅ Why perfectionism hurts performance

✅ Building confidence the right way

✅ How to stop throwing rounds away

✅ Resilience and grit on the golf course

✅ The psychology of scratch golf

✅ The "anchor in the mountain" concept

✅A Game, B Game, C Game - why a better C game can lead to lasting improvement.

Want to go deeper?

Check out Jared Tendler’s excellent golf psychology resources:

🌐 Website: https://jaredtendler.com/

📚 Books: https://jaredtendler.com/books/

🏌️ Everyday Golf Psychology: https://jaredtendler.com/books/everyday-golf-psychology/

Jared’s work provides practical frameworks for building confidence, handling pressure, overcoming fear of failure and performing more consistently on the golf course.

🎙️ ABOUT THE SHOW

How Low Can You Go explores how amateur golfers can improve their game, lower their scores, and actually understand what moves the needle — without wasting time on the wrong things.

🎧 Listen now and start turning bad rounds into better golf.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

What you're likely feeling is that you're effectively like climbing a mountain with no rope. At any point, right, a slip means you die. When you say high standard, I think expectation. When you're meeting your expectation, you get zero points. You don't get credit for doing what you're supposed to do. So again, kind of hidden language in terms of like, okay, well, why is it that expectations produce what you are describing? It's because they're hidden guarantees.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

Last week, Jared Tandler psycho-analysed My Golf Game and uncovered some uncomfortable truths about confidence and insecurity. This week, it's Chris's turn. As a golfer knocking on the door of scratch, Chris believes his biggest obstacle isn't his swing, it's what's going on between his ears. So let's get back into the conversation with Jared Temper. This is How Low Can You Go.

SPEAKER_03 1:21

How low can you go? One thing that I I'm kind of like battling with is like when does having these high standards stop helping and they actually like start hurting me more? Because I feel like I'm going through that just now, where it's like, yeah, I'm getting to a place where like loads of people would love to be at a single figure low handicap, but I'm wanting to get the next thing. It's always like I'll be happy when, but I'm not there. And those high standards that I've got are kind of hurting me in a way.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

Yeah, I know the phrasing you're using, and that's like kind of common speak for how we like analyze the situation. Um, it doesn't matter what other people think. So if that's just like an excuse of your mind trying to rationalize the caring and the drive that you have here. And you should not shy away from that. I'm not a person that believes that we should be lowering our standards by any means, right? Like aspire to the highest levels that you can possibly envision yourself wanting. But the difference is that you're not truly treating them as aspirations. When you say high standard, I think expectation. Is that a fair Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

So again, kind of hidden language in terms of like, okay, well, why is it that expectations produce what you are are describing? It's because they're hidden guarantees. You're basically guaranteeing that I will be a scratch golfer. I will be able to win this tournament. I know you're not thinking that, but that's the intent. So as a high standard, has a high expectation. It's phenomenal for motivation. And I think that's what you feel. You feel the intensity of your drive to kind of want this. And the way of the world is that there is always more. Like that's that's the beauty. Like, I I think if if we sort of truly solve golf, like you're never playing again. I mean, like so few people play checkers. Nobody plays tic-tac-toe outside of playing with a kid anymore, right? Because the game's solved. Like there's no fun in that. The the fun is in the challenge. So there is always more. We're not going to shy away from that either. But what we have to do is ensure that you have the confidence to keep climbing. Because what you're experiencing is classic. And I do talk about this in the confidence chapter. Although I'd be honest, I tried to slim it down just not to be uh too overwhelming. Um, so there is more I can provide in this podcast, perhaps in terms of the content here. Um but what what what you are feeling I'll actually I'll ask it. See if see if this resonates, okay? Um what you're likely feeling is that you're effectively like climbing a mountain with no rope. At any point, right? Yeah, slip means you die. And I don't mean that physically, uh, but like psychologically, that's what feels like so you're like having a death grip. You know, you get 300, like ah, uh one misstep, and I'm I'm gone. I'm a goner. I have look how high I've climbed. I'm getting so close. What you want is like we're not, you know, Alex Arnold, like, you know, climbing uh, you know, El Capitan with no rope. Like you want to be a climber who's got like anchors, right? You're anchoring yourself to the mountain, you're climbing higher, and if you fall, like, yeah, it's gonna hurt. I mean, falling short in competition hurts. You get to three under through, you know, 16 holes and puke on your shoes, like it's gonna hurt. Uh, but it doesn't kill you. And I think that's that's the big key. So the what what happens with these expectations is it it really damages confidence, kind of erodes it from the inside. And the reason is because you're never able to feel any pride or satisfaction for the growth. So the like you know, always wanting more becomes problematic only because your sights are only focused forward and you're never actually reflecting back on what have I actually gotten better at? And let's do the 330 in the morning test. What in the last year have you gotten better at in golf?

SPEAKER_03 5:22

I'd say my puttings definitely came on leaps and bounds is my pace putting. Um I think over the last year I was terrible at chipping, and I've got much better at chipping, but that's through obviously getting advice from someone on the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

Um be specific about what's gotten better with your chipping, because you can't be a single-digit handicap and be terrible.

SPEAKER_03 5:47

Yeah, so I'd say my grin con I'd say my I'd say my grin contacts much better. Um and I know where I'm like, I'd say most of the time I know where I'm landing the ball and I have a good estimate of where the run-out will be to a certain degree. Obviously, distance and my uh my direction's a tad off, but I know that'll be in and around four or five feet. That's where I'd like I'd feel safe. When before I kind of got the chipping yips, I was always a really, really good chipper and I'd walked up to the ball and knew it was going to a good level, and I was so happy with that. When the yips came in, I had this kind of like that was my biggest saving grace was if I got myself out of position, I could chip myself close and walk off of the par. And I so that's where my mental game kind of went down the pan because I couldn't rely on that, and at the same time, my driving's sometimes amazing, but then my putting's bad, and then it'll be like my putting's good, and then my driving's bad, but my chipping was always that stable foundation. So I went through a season of just not knowing, like I went up, I was a 1.3 and I went up to 2.9, which we've talked about, which isn't people are like, Oh, you only went up a little, but that is if I'm trying to get down to my goal, I think I've increased by 100%, like exactly. Where it's like, oh, it's like people when I speak to people and they say, but yeah, you only went up to 2.9, it's like, but to me, that was like a major fall for me. I've like you said, I felt like I'd put the rope in and I was just kept falling, and then when I'd stop on a plateau, then I'd fall again. Like I felt like that through golf. And I've had, we spoke about it before, I've I've had moments where I gave up golf.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

I'm gonna pause for a second because I want to make sure we get back to the original question. Um so this is classic high expectation perfectionist, right? Ask about things you've gotten better at, and all of a sudden now we're talking about your chipping yips. Right. And it just it just goes to show you how your focus is always on the imperfection and not on the strength. So pause a little bit at the beginning, fine, right? Kind of came to some very clear, like, all right, my my lag putting's gotten a lot better, chipping has gotten much improved, right? You just gotta stop there and start like like truly start to own the things that are improving because that's what's missing. So, you know, maybe the kind of parallel between you know you and Dave here in the conversation is that Dave's, at least from a psychological standpoint, right, we're dealing with like personal competencies that get lost and that need to kind of be brought into golf to provide a little bit more stability. I think for you, it's more specific to your game, like the specific skills and competencies if you've gotten better in golf are absent. And so there is no kind of stop loss. There is no kind of anchor in the mountain that's gonna kind of hold you up and say, all right, these are the 50 things that are really specific. I don't need to think about. I don't need to think about how I'm holding my putter grip or am I holding the club. I don't need to think about my posture, right? Those are things that I do very, very well. Now, ball position, okay, ball position gets a little bit off. Balance, okay, fine, you know, balance of my putting gets a little bit off, fine. But like you still know the things that you don't have to think about. Yeah. And and having that get stronger in your mind, right, provides more of that stability. And what it does over time, and here's just going back to this sort of high expectation um dynamic, which I I don't I don't describe in as much detail in the book. So the erosion happens because you know, confidence is kind of like a game. Um, when you're meeting your expectation, you get zero points.

unknown 9:41

Right?

SPEAKER_00 9:42

You don't get credit for doing what you're supposed to do. Right? Only when you exceed it do you get credit, but then that those points can kind of get very quickly recalibrated. So the summer after my sophomore year college, um, I won a pretty big like regional tournament. I grew up in Connecticut. Uh, at this point, I was playing in college. I'd won three tournaments uh in the first couple years of my, maybe four tournaments, first couple years of my career. Division III Skidmore, like, you know, I was pretty happy. Um, and this tournament was awesome. Uh, they had standard bears, uh, the last three groups. Um, I shot two under the first uh first day, was in the last group. Standard bear, name on sign, like 30 people walking with us off the first T. Uh, make the turn. There's another 50 people on the green, walk to the 10th T. There's another 50 people there. I mean, I did not make a birdie. I shot three over, ended up winning by a shot or by two shots. And I mean, it was like it was amazing. Yeah. Made a sick up and down um after having to pitch out on the 18th hole. Um, literally walking to my car, getting in the car, like, ah, it wasn't the US Open.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

We always do it. We always do it.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

There's always something else in the more, yeah. So the the recalibration of these accomplishments can happen very, very fast. So even the things that you might temporarily and should feel good about just get deviscerated immediately as you know, the next thing kind of takes that away. So it's it's vital, right, that we're not changing the expectation. We're just converting it into a goal, into an aspiration. And what that does is it kind of massages open the room for the growth factor to get acknowledged, recognized, and owned, and understand that you do not want to just keep climbing higher and higher. Like working with traders has helped me understand this, you know, even more exquisitely. Because if you think about like a stock, stocks that generally just go straight up in a line eventually are going to just crash. Right. They're, as they call parabolic moves that have no base of support. Right. The, the, the, the stocks that have really done incredibly well for long periods of time, like Nvidia, for example, right, they go through these periods of consolidation where things kind of just solidify. And what they're doing is they're creating a base of support. They're putting an anchor in the mountain that allows that that kind of higher low point to exist, where now it's like, oh wow, like I just can't play that bad anymore. I mean, right, I'm a plus two, plus three right now. I mean, I I played, I played with friends the other day. I hadn't played, you know, I played a couple tournaments um early this year, U.S. Open qualifier, the Philadelphia mid-am, finished 12th in the mid-am, missed qualifying for the open, or at least the local qualifying by three shots of like playing pretty good golf. Don't play for a month, play for three of my buddies that are awful. And I chose to like not take a practice wing because I knew we were playing in the morning, they're gonna be really slow. Like, I got to keep pace of play going. I shoot one under, and it was like I I just know my game so well that I know how to adjust very quickly, I know what shots to hit. Like it just things come very, very fast now. So, like my base, my anchor in the mountain is pretty damn high. It's it's for me to play poorly, I have to be physically in a pretty bad spot. Um so the point is like it's the higher lows that really create the base of support that allows the next legs up. So the point is like that that's what you've got to be confirming is the very intimate, uh specific details of your game that are really, really strong because you've been ignoring that reality for a very long time.

SPEAKER_02 13:21

Yeah. And what you said there, it was almost like with Chris, Chris's game, it it he's sort of worked himself into a situation where there's no upside. Is it is that fair? Where it's a bit like, oh, you know, good golf smile's baseline, and and you know, anything below that is just not acceptable. But one kind of example I've often thought is interesting in golf, where I feel like there's kind of no upside, and that's why I feel personally real pressure standing over like a two-footer, three-footer, something like that. Because when I say there's no upside, it's it's it's people aren't gonna say, Oh, great shot after you hole a two-footer or a three-footer. Nobody's gonna say that, you know. Whereas I personally think those take quite a lot of skill to hole a lot of the time if you are feeling under pressure and you've got a good score going or you know whatever is happening. But yeah, do you agree with that? It's kind of like that situation is one of the classic situations where there's there's no upside, and therefore that builds quite a lot of pressure.

SPEAKER_00 14:23

If it's not a guarantee, then there's upside. And I think this is what gets missed a lot, especially psychologically, is just like the number of repetitions that are required to create that strength and stability. The the analogy of kind of putting that anchor in the mount, it's not like a single moment where that happens. It's the repetition. And eventually that sucker like stays in there. It's like, oh wow, like I just I can't be that bad anymore.

unknown 14:49

Right?

SPEAKER_00 14:49

Like Chris, you know that like you you you just can't think about golf like a 20 handicap anymore. Like you can't make decisions like a 20 handicap. There's not like get kicked in the head by a donkey, sure. But short of that, like you're just you just can't unlearn it.

SPEAKER_02 15:07

Do you even have any recollection of being a 20 handicap level? Yeah, like that. It's just I do.

SPEAKER_00 15:14

So like until that point, like the repetition is the value.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:19

You know, like okay, so you got a two and a half footer, everybody's expecting to make it. Most of the time you just rake it and walk to the next hole. But I gotta nail my alignment. I've got to make sure that my you know, my pacing is right. I'm not like jerking this thing. Like, so there's things that are still being acquired that you get to have a rep on. And here's the here's the best part of it. You get uh almost like more value, like the quality of the rep counts more when you're under pressure. Yeah. Which should make sense, right? That's why major championships are so hard. It's why playing in unforgiving conditions are so hard because the the room for error is so narrow. So, because of that, like having precision gets you kind of a higher quality rep. So, for example, uh, you do it well in the driving range, it counts for like one-tenth of a rep, maybe even like one fiftieth. You do it well in a casual round with friends, it counts for maybe like a half a rep. You do it for in a money match where it starts to matter, you get like one rep. You do it, you know, to win a tournament or in a spot where you're teen off in the first hole, you had a putt, you know, three-footer on 17 to like win the match. Like now all of a sudden it counts for three. You know, it's like the scale of the quality of the intensity of the reps increased. So you want to take advantage of every rep, every opportunity you have possibly. You know, and that's why like taking mulligans and raking those putts, that that it's generally like why people struggle to get off the first T and why they struggle with short putts, because they're not doing it enough to take care of the small things that helps them to understand how to uh ensure that their body is in the right place. It's less mental, honestly. It's like, can you stand up to on this T-box, make a good decision, and uh hit the ball where you're looking? Well, if you go there knowing that you've got a breakfast ball in your back pocket, I'm like, nah, doesn't you don't, you're not re you're not really under the pressure to kind of get it right. You know, if you know that that buck, that putt's gonna get knocked back to you, you're not really under that kind of pressure to hit that first lag putt, you know, maybe with a chance of going in.

SPEAKER_02 17:22

So yeah. And we were on Carl Morris's mind cutty podcast just the other week there, and he actually put us both in the spot asking, well, what what's next? Well, you know, what's the plan? What what what are you building up to? And I said that actually I think I probably need to put myself in more competitions, like more proper compet sorry, more competitive golf to kind of and that I think that is very much in line with the point that you were making there, is that you know, maybe a casual round with nothing on the line is sort of half a rep at tops. Whereas if I'm facing like we've got our club championships this Saturday, you know, you know, that two-footer is gonna feel very, very different in that scenario than it would just a bounce game with Chris.

SPEAKER_03 18:19

Yeah, so that's exactly where you need to get up to the the practice button green and just keep hitting and keep hitting those two-footers, that's or no, would you not say?

SPEAKER_00 18:31

Probably not. Um that can kind of start to condition, like so from a focus standpoint, that can be great. Like if you're gonna like nail down your technique, great. But I think at this stage, you got a week before you're playing. I would say um play more games, simulated games, like on the on the putting green, where you're you're um you know gonna give yourself uh 20 to 50 footers on that putting green, and your goal is to shoot even par, right? Over nine holes, and and you go through your routine for every single one of those putts, and you know, you're gonna have a bunch of two to five footers as your second putt. Like there's your chance. Like your goal is to shoot even par on those nine. Like that that's gonna put more pressure on them. I I think like the block practice, the repetitive stuff, it is not like timing-wise right for you because you you do not want to change your technique this close to it. You got what you got. Try to make as make it as good as possible. Number two, uh on the side of the putting green, you're gonna look like an idiot doing this, which is great given that your tendency towards embarrassment. I want you to do uh like five jumping jacks and a push-up, and then go hit a three-footer. Right. So, like make your body feel a little bit weird, jack up your heart rate a little bit, and then go make that five-footer, uh, or go make that three-footer. Um, and and for you especially, that's gonna do a couple things, right? It's gonna make you look like an idiot and maybe take your attention farther away from the shot. Because at the end of the day, at its most basic level, that is what fear does. That's what pressure does. It takes our attention and draws us more inward. And that's the opposite of what needs to happen in that moment. And so if I forced you, and I I say this in the book, it's not a complicated idea. If I force you to focus on something completely irrelevant to the quality of that putt, like focus on your feet through the entirety of your entire process, right? The moment you walk up to the green, the only thing you're focused on is your feet. Okay. Now, of course, you're still walking, so you see the green, you mark your ball and you clean it and you know, begin to like kind of look at the slope and whatever and figure out what you're gonna do. But again, the majority of your focus is on your feet. So, how much attention is being lost to where exactly the ball is gonna roll in the hole or whatever it is that you need to do to get lined up. And then, of course, you're distracted. So your posture preparation, it's like everything's kind of gonna get a little bit off, or you're gonna start to maybe second guess things. Well, that's ultimately what pressure does. It takes you to inward, and then as a result, well, you're not athletic, you're not able to respond to the moment as cleanly as you would normally. And I that's not the only thing that happens with fear. But again, at the basic level, in practice, doing those push-ups, maybe forcing a little bit of extra attention on what other people are thinking about you. How well can you drive your mind outward to the demands of this putt without thinking about your technique and just going through it?

SPEAKER_02 21:29

It's funny, we had Scott Fawcett on our podcast, and I'm just kind of speaking on his behalf. He would absolutely hate what you've just said. He I think he said when he spoke to us, he said, you got these guys saying, Oh, you should run a few laps around and then come back with a higher heart rate. He's like, I completely disagree with that. A higher heart rate through running a few laps is completely different to a higher heart rate through fear, right? But I think, am I right in saying what you're what you're describing here is as a good exercise? You're not trying to say. That is an identical situation to the anxiety or the pressure that you would feel in a tight moment in a game of golf. But at least it makes you feel physiologically a bit different, and you possibly feel a little bit uh, you know, self-conscious if people are watching you do all those kind of like push-ups and whatever on the side of the green. And then it just kind of shakes things up a bit. Is that is that the point you're making?

SPEAKER_00 22:26

So when you feel physical physiologically different, right? Your heart rate's higher and you've done push-ups, so your arms feel different. That's what happens. Like it draws your attention towards that. Why? Because our minds generally seek novelty. So for a lot of amateur golfers who are not that experienced in dealing with pressure, they focus on the feeling because it's just newer. And so getting you kind of more acclimated to the, oh, I can sense my attention going inward to the kinesthetic or physiological feeling or my heart rate. Maybe I'm just feeling my heart rate. I don't care that the cause is different. I care that your attention is being brought that way. And can you then have a process to kind of fight through that? Because the goal is not to get rid of the fear. The goal is not to get rid of the anxiety, the nerves. I'm not going to get hung up on the specific differences between those. They're semi-irrelevant at this point. The key is do you have a process for getting yourself out of your own head, out of your own body, and focused on being athletic in that moment? If the answer is no, then this is a great way to practice.

SPEAKER_03 23:37

Yeah. Shane Lowry said when he was about to hold that pot in the rider cup, he said he couldn't feel his hands. He said like he didn't know what was going on in his hands, but he said that he'd been in a position before where he knew what to go, like he basically spoke to his caddy and they just went through the process and then he made the pot. Yeah. And because I've felt it so many times where my heart, like, say if I'm playing in a match play situation, it's gotten better the more that I've played in these kind of situations and I've put myself under pressure. I still do feel the my hands start going numb and I feel a heartbeat in my mouth. Like I and I feel that.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

But the fact that you said the word still means that there's a part of your mind that thinks eventually it's gonna go away. Right. It's not. If your aspirations are gonna continue to get higher, they're only gonna get worse. Yeah. So all you're doing is practicing it. I I remember, now this is obviously dating myself a little bit here, but the US Publinks qualifier. Um I I I could visibly see my hand shaking over this four-footer. I made a great uh, you know, short-sided bunker shot, got to like four feet above the hole. If I miss this thing, like I'm gonna have another four feet, if not more coming back. My hands were visibly shaking over the ball. I stepped back and I told myself, it doesn't matter. Like I can still hit a good golf shot, right? Or I can still make this putt. Like my hand and my hands were visibly shaking, and I made the putt. Again, proving that numbness, shakiness, they're not relevant factors. And I think that's that's again a big part of what amateur golfers, Dave, like you get into a spot where you're feeling this way, it feels wrong. You try to get rid of it, which is why calmness is oftentimes the antidote. It's like, oh, let's try to get you relax. It's not, you're gonna lose your sharpness. We you can use the nerves to have greater sense of the the conditions of the golf course, a greater sense of your swing. Like things, you become your your senses are heightened. We can use that. But again, if your senses are heightened and now they're more attentive to this strange feeling, well then that that's what's what's kind of uh consequential.

SPEAKER_03 25:47

People talk about meditation and breathing techniques. What's your opinion on that? Because I know you said you obviously stepped away from the ball and said, like, this this doesn't matter, like just commit to the shot. Because I've found myself doing a lot of like breathing techniques, like I'll breathe out, then breathe in, then breathe out, then breathe in and look down at the ball and make the stroke. And I feel like that centered me somehow. It's maybe something I'm holding on to that I think helps, but in pressure situations, I've found breathing has helped. What's your opinions on breathing and meditation and stuff like that?

SPEAKER_00 26:21

So at the end of the day, like whatever gets the job done, gets the job done. I think if it's reliably holding up, then then that then that's great. Like I think there's lots of ways to get it done. Um generally speaking, I think meditation is like greatest value is in helping to build awareness. Um and and you know, you can't kind of stop a problem you can't see, right? If you can't sense the slow rise of frustration, you can't sense the slow degrading of your focus, which is a huge problem. I I can't tell you the number of players that um their first sign of of their focus wandering is being pissed off for missing, you know, making a like a dumb mistake. Overconfidence, huge problem that goes unrecognized. So meditation can absolutely help you to become more aware uh of you kind of deviating away from uh what is your sort of optimal mentality. Um breathing, right, can be great for focus. It can be great for creating some calm. I'm not saying that like if you're if the pressure is too high, that um being calmer is not part of the solution. But the reason it's it can't be the only one is because if you actually do it too well, then you're gonna suck because you're too relaxed. You know, and and you know, I and I talk about this um in in chapter six, where there's this like performance stress curve. Right. And your optimal performance includes a lot of energy, a lot of emotion. For some people, that mixture includes anger, right? Tiger and Jordan, um a bunch of athletes, like they often like were fueled by anger and in and that kind of intensity. Others need the fear and pressure. Like Cam Smith, Cam Smith's a guy that like needs to be redlining in terms of pressure, like because, you know, like a run-of-the-mill, a run-of-the-mill game, like he's gonna uh Brooks Kepler, another one, like just they need that extra pressure, otherwise, they're too far on the other side of the spectrum and there's not enough energy kind of powering them. But the problem is like if you're only using breathing as your tactic, then the way that you're gonna kind of handle that pressure is gonna kind of swing from one side to the other. You're gonna at times be almost like too relaxed. So, to me, right, we're trying to change uh or reduce that excessive pressure. And some of that, I think, can come more consistently through having greater certainty. I was talking about earlier. So, what I'd suggest is when you're doing that breathing, combine it with reminders of things that you can be certain about with your putting, your process, you can be certain that you've made the absolute best read you could here. You don't know if it's gonna be right. So just go hit it, right? And so there's layers of certainty that allow you to kind of hold yourself in the pressure, and that that to me is a more reliable way. So, like breathing can absolutely be part of it, but it's like a tactic, it can't be the only strategy.

SPEAKER_02 29:25

Earlier you touched on this a bit, Jared. Uh where it's like you want to get a foundation of your game on the bad days. So I think you talk a lot about your C game, your B game, and your A game. But the interesting point that you make in the book is like everybody needs to go and work on getting that C game better. I think your words are everyone needs to learn how to suck less.

unknown 30:00

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 30:01

But it's but it's it's really I find that like a really interesting point. And and when we spoke to John Sherman, we had him on the podcast podcast recently, and he was telling us about how there's so much value in golf in not giving up, even when things are going really, really badly. And then this was really validated when I picked up your book because you were kind of saying, actually, your C game should almost be the foundation of your game. Because if you can get your C game slightly better, or then quite a bit better as time goes on, then it's probably gonna have a knock-on effect and help your best days because you'll have maybe more freedom on your best days to play your best stuff because you know that your C game is never going to be that bad.

SPEAKER_00 30:50

Is that right? Or maybe I'm butchering it there? No, no, that's 100% right. I think it brings together a lot of things that we've talked about today.

SPEAKER_02 31:04

Before we get back to the conversation, quick favor. If you're enjoying the podcast, please follow the show and leave us a rating or a review. It genuinely helps us keep bringing on brilliant guests like Jared Tendler. And one thing that's really stuck with me from this conversation. If you are serious about getting better at golf, stop throwing rounds away when your A game doesn't show up. The golfers who improve aren't the ones who only play well when everything clicks. They're the ones who learn how to grind out a score with their C game.

SPEAKER_00 31:43

Okay, let's get back into it. Um so yeah, I think the the construct of having that kind of A, B, and C game defined, like you understand the nature of your C game and understand that a lot of it is not technical. It's it's mostly mental, right? The the fear, the anxiety, the the anger, the lack of confidence, the lack of focus, the embarrassment, the threat of embarrassment, uh, they are the thing that are impairing your ability to kind of get the most out of your physicality, right? Obviously, there can be days where you're, you know, you got like a pinch, you know, in your neck and you just for the most part, like if you're physically in good shape, uh, you know, reasonably, uh then like the mental game is the thing that's gonna cause your C game. So when you're in those situations, right, the not giving up helps you to figure out at a minimum more of what is going on. You know, I think the the most common thing that golfers do after rounds where things went badly is they try to like just forget about it and they kind of drink the round away. Um they uh, you know, kind of go through the deletion of like, oh, like if I didn't, you know, uh three putt on five and uh you know, I got I got you know unlucky on nine and you know, hit hit a tree and went out you sort of lose um a bunch of shots, but you're not really like understanding not just what happened, but why. Again, going back to that my question.

SPEAKER_02 33:15

Like if we just if we just forgot about what I did on that hole, that hole, and that hole, then I would have had a half decent round out there, that kind of thing. Yeah, it's all the time.

SPEAKER_00 33:22

It's all square related. And and and we think that, okay, well, then you're still capable. Because here's the thing because it's mostly mental, you know that you have the ability. I mean, I can't tell you the number of times like you hear a player say, like, oh, I just need to do X. Like, I know what I need to do, I just didn't do it. Okay, but that that's not random. There's a reason why you didn't do it. You got distracted because on the 15th hole, you're having fun with your with your buddies, and you just forgot that you needed to make sure that the ball was teed up, you know, an extra half inch higher. Because you tend to sometimes, when you're not paying attention, just like tee your driver lower, and of course, then you know you hit this sort of thin shot that goes off to the right. It's like, okay, that's a simple example, but it was the loss of focus because you were distracted by the enjoyment of the game. If if that was your primary goal was to have fun, well, then hitting a good shot there would actually have been, you know, against your primary goal. You want to hit good golf shots the whole way around? Well, then you got to make sure that you're sharp for those, you know, 30 seconds before you tee up. And you got to make sure that you're remembering all the things that matter to you. Or maybe it's because you got pissed off because you burned a few edges in the previous few holes, and then you get up on hole number seven and you try to slam one in the back of the cup, you know, from five feet. It's like, oh, I knew I should have, you know, uh hit it a bit softer and not and and you know, not hit it through the break. It's like, sure, but the anger blocked you from having full access to your knowledge and your intellect and be able to use it in those moments. So the why question becomes so vital. And so in a bad round where you're struggling, ask yourself the why. You could do it in the middle of the round. You want to make some value out of that time, like do that. At a minimum, do it after the round. Because once you understand kind of what is going wrong, well, then you can use my book or other, you know, other resources to start to problem solve and begin kind of picking off each one of these aspects of your C game and then training it and getting in the reps round after round. And then, yeah, in rounds where you're struggling, you have something that you know works, well, then use it. But the worst thing you can do is like kind of whether it's mentally or technically, just kind of bouncing around to lots of different ideas. Because then you never get the reps. You kind of are looking for the thing to like work, but like a single rep is not evidence that it's working.

unknown 35:42

Right?

SPEAKER_00 35:42

Yeah. There's got to be like a sample that shows you, ah, Chris, like your lag putting has gotten better, not just because on one 50-footer you knocked it to a foot and a half. It's because the totality of those average uh of shots are actually seeing, you know, a greater convergence on your shot making. So yeah, we're we can't be looking for single instances as a solution. It's it's yeah, more complicated than that.

SPEAKER_02 36:06

I was actually just on all of that point that you're making about those bad, bad days and what we can do on those days so that you don't just walk around feeling dreadful the entire time. I was actually really proud of myself, and I spoke to you afterwards, Chris. I went out and played 18 holes by myself and the front line was shockingly bad. And this was just last week. It was shockingly bad. I started double-double-double, and it was just one of those where I was trying different things and just nothing was coming off. It was like I just I kind of just lost the ability to get the ball to go anywhere that I wanted it to go. And I was walking off the ninth green after having just hit an approach shot into the junk, and so uh you know, ended up with a triple boogie. And I was thinking, I feel really down here, I feel really sad. This is shocking. Like, I'm actually shocked now. I'm not a great golfer, but I'm shocked at what I'm shooting here because I I counted it up and I I shot 49 on the front line, and then I just went, no, I'm not giving up on this. This but but seriously, Jared, this was like I have definitely got my C game or worse here. Like this is this is really dire stuff going on here. And I just thought, no, I've got John Sherman in my mind after him saying the value of the C game, and then I started reading your book actually just after this happened. And I was like, no, I'm not giving up. I'm gonna try and see if I can do something to try and get my C or D game to a higher level than it once was, right? And I ended up I shot 41 back nine. So by my standard as a 14 handicap, that's that's pretty good shooting. That's that's a kind of five over power on the back nine. Um, and I was so proud of myself because I I felt like I found a way to dig something out here. I tried to learn from what was going on because it was just a practice round. I I was able to spray the face of my iron because I was like, what's going on here? When I was off the tee one time, I sprayed it with foot spray to see. I was like, what is going on? Why are these iron shots so bad? And it turned out I was hitting it like way off the toe when I hadn't realized like way off. And then I made some adjustments. And so, long story short, I felt like I managed to dig something out and ended up shooting 90. Now I know nobody listening is gonna think, oh wow, this guy shot 90. But I remember when breaking 90 was a big deal, right? Not very long ago for me, breaking 90 was a big deal, and there's very often times I'm happy to admit that I don't break 90, that happens. Um, but I just felt like here I was with my C game shooting 90. That felt like a big shift in my uh golfing development, in all honesty.

SPEAKER_03 39:02

Chris, what do you make of this? I think from someone that I've played with for such a long time, I do think a lot of the times when Dave needed to get his hands dirty before he knew about the kind of like C game, like making it break the back of it up to the front. I think you might have just let let it go. You might have just thought, I'm just having a day, and it would have been like a 98.

SPEAKER_02 39:26

Um and that's what that's what that was what like I know I keep saying John Sherman, but he had said on our podcast, he said, can you turn your 97 into a 93? You know, and I was like, this is heading for a 98 plus finish here, but I managed to dig out a 90, so I was pleased with that. Sorry, Chris, carry on.

SPEAKER_03 39:44

No, no, it's I like one of the like kind of one of the final questions I had was if you walked like around with me like for 18 holes, what do you think you would be able to like see? Obviously, if we were talking as I was playing, do you think you would be able to put your hand on what is going wrong in my head essentially when I'm playing golf?

SPEAKER_00 40:06

Yeah, I think we'd have to be talking about certain situations kind of beyond what we did on this podcast.

SPEAKER_03 40:11

Uh yeah, because I think like I say, for example, you were talking about I'll the lack of concentration I have in my head. I'm eating more, I'm drinking more water just to try and keep myself stimulated and in the match. But I'll be standing over a ball and I have these internal conversations of this is an eight iron, you've got a nine iron in your hand. And I it's not like I'm not paying attention. I'm literally over the ball going, you the wind's coming into your face, hit a lower club. And then I'm telling myself, no, hit the nine iron, hit the nine iron, I hit it short. And then I'm in this battle with like an internal, like, why didn't you do that? And I'm taking that to the green, I hit a trap putt. Then I'm like, see, look what's happened after, and I'm having it's not like I'm going, oh yeah, like what we haven't for beers afterwards. I am in this mode of I feel like I'm concentrating, I'm doing breathing techniques, and it's just my head just doesn't want this that is not listening when I'm golfing.

SPEAKER_00 41:08

It's interesting that that's your takeaway with that description. Um what what do you think is the the mistake or the problem in what you've described?

SPEAKER_03 41:16

I think I'm listening to myself in a certain degree, but then I'm ignoring myself straight after, personally.

SPEAKER_00 41:23

And why would you do that?

SPEAKER_03 41:24

I think it's from past uh events that have happened before where I've hit it and it's gone through the back. But it's on the same because we play the same course all the time. I'm like, you know you need to hit the bigger club, but what happens if it I'm just constantly second guessing myself on the course? Like constantly.

SPEAKER_00 41:41

Why would you second guess yourself? Because of past experiences. No, because you're not allowing that past experience to work for you because you're always thinking about the next thing and not having built up a base of competence in understanding what you are actually good at.

SPEAKER_03 41:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 41:57

So it goes back to our previous conversation. It's like in order to trust your own sense of what's right, you have to believe that you have enough skills that would make that sense accurate. Otherwise, it's like a stranger. It's like, you don't know my game. Like, why am I gonna listen to you? Yeah. You know, so I think I think that will start to quiet down. Um at a minimum, the the lack of commitment, like the the your tolerance for lack of commitment has to go to zero. You know, and and and so even if you're you know not wanting the ball to go to the back of the green, you cannot allow a kind of a conflict of like what shot you're gonna hit at the at your level. That uh honestly, that alone can be the thing that's distinguishing the difference between you getting from where you are now to frankly even being a plus handicap. Um and here's here's the longer-term consequence of that, right? If you're committed to like the the more and like aspiring to higher and higher levels, you are are factually learning way less from every shot that you hit when you've got a split mind about what's right. Right? Because here's the thing. If you hit the shot well, I think to a degree you got lucky because your mind, your body wasn't really kind of primed and tuned for a specific outcome. So you got two shots in your head, you know, muscle memory can kind of be competing. Um, and when you hit it poorly, well, we don't know if there was something off with your alignment, your posture, your mechanics, uh, your sense of the lie and how you adapted to it. Um, or if it was most likely just because you actually weren't clear on the shot you were trying to hit. So because you get a contaminated like sample, your learning goes to hell. And you cannot afford to have any shots on the golf course be contaminated with indecisive. Decision. So at a minimum, just going through the okay, I don't know what's right here. I don't know if it's nine or eight. And if they go through, I'm not a hundred percent sure. It's okay to not know. Now, I think from a high expectation standpoint, that's probably part of why you haven't been able to be as committed because it's probably not been okay to not know. Um, you have to have certainty about what's right. And the reality is you don't, you just have to be committed to a choice, and then over time you get to find out through that research of what is right, you know. Uh so um but Dave, back to you for a sec. Um, like the the the um respond, like kind of responding on the back nine, and like some sometimes that happens. I know what many players kind of find that because they they kind of give up and they stop kind of caring. I think what was what was I think what was great about your description here is that you didn't stop caring. I think that that like the not caring is not the progression that's not really gonna move the C game forward because not caring is not something that you can train. It's not a mentality that we want to have. So what you did was you kept caring, but you started caring about kind of digging through the crap and finding a way to suck less, even though that maybe not it was in your head at the time, but that's what you were doing. Um, and and and you were able to kind of find something with your swing, with a bit a bit of resilience with your mentality. And so you cared about the things that you had more control of. And and I think that that sort of goes to show you that the front nine from a technical standpoint, from a swing standpoint, from a mechanic standpoint, could not have been the reason. It's very, very rare for somebody to so dramatically change their mechanics within the span of nine holes on the golf course without actually practicing. Yeah. So what changed was your reaction to those bad shots. And then that started to free you up. I'm sure there was less tension, there was a bit more clarity and more purpose with each shot. You were less focused on the outcome of each shot and the and the and the score you were shooting. You were more focused on your preparation, your examination of each shot. So like your process was way better, had to have been. And so then like that was more of the control. So you stop caring about some of the things that you didn't have full command of because look, the reality is our gob swing, the aspects of it that are still being learned, we do not have full control of. So you try to control certain parts of your mechanics of a swing moving, you know, 90 plus miles an hour. It's like that's not how the mind is designed.

SPEAKER_02 46:38

Yeah, yeah. No, definitely. I I think it's just really good from my perspective to get that support and validation from someone like you, someone of your background, that that was because I was thinking, oh, was that a really good moment for me? Because, you know, I really did feel like, yes, when I told Chris afterwards, he said, Well, you should, I said, I shot 90, and he was like, Oh no. No. And I was like, hear me out, Chris, hear me out. This was a good, this was a good, good moment. But uh, no, but that's good as well because it it shows that like it's not a score that I'm always that I'm necessarily happy with.

SPEAKER_00 47:16

When you think about the club championship, now you have something that you can start to rely on. Again, this goes back to the original, like, look, you got to get stronger because you're not weak, but you have to get stronger on the reasons why you're not weak. And so that is a memory that's very recent that you can use because you're gonna be tested in that, in the the round of rounds at certain points. And and you're gonna have an opportunity to maybe focus more on your swing or get a little bit more down after a double or after a couple really bad swings, and to be able to not wait until you know the ninth or tenth hole to like kind of make that shift. But like third hole, you get off to a rough start, fourth T, what are you doing? Okay, been here before, different circumstance, same sort of like pivot. It's like, okay, focusing too much on my swing, that's not great, focusing too much on score, that's not great. All right, let me just try to not suck here and and hit a better shot and and start working your way back. That's it's it's a it's a great way to again reinforce the strength because the more that you can control not sucking, great. Well, now you now you again it becomes harder for you to be bad or harder for you to be terrible. And so then as you're developing more of that strength in the round, again, you're not gonna get distracted by hitting great shots because again, C game is always a possibility, so you're just prepared and gritty to get the ball around.

SPEAKER_02 48:40

Yeah, grit. Yes, developing grit. I really, really like that. Um, Jared, we are mindful of your time. Um so we'll let you get on. But just for everyone listening, obviously the book's out. The book came out earlier this year, around April, I think, of this year, right? Uh everyday golf psychology, practical advice for golfers at every level. Where can people find you if they want to get in touch or hear a bit more about what you're doing?

SPEAKER_00 49:12

Yeah, uh, JaredTendler.com. Uh, we've got a monthly newsletter or bi-monthly newsletter that you know sends out some tips. It tends to be fairly kind of performance general, um, although I do obviously talk about golf. Um, and I do have a community for golfers uh that you can sign up to uh on my website as well, where I'm kind of offering some practical advice for uh, you know, a lot of different scenarios and trying to kind of go beyond the book.

SPEAKER_02 49:35

And the book is available wherever books are sold, right?

SPEAKER_00 49:39

Yeah, yeah. And I I do the recording on the audiobook. Um so it's uh audiobook, ebook, softcover, hardcover.

SPEAKER_02 49:46

Great. And uh just one last point on the book. I really love the way at the end of each, I think every chapter or at the end of each section anyway, there's like the kind of key takeaways. I personally like a good high-level summary at the end of different uh different ventures or different activities. So if you wouldn't mind, Jared, I'm gonna put you on the spot this time. Can you give Chris and I your, in your expert opinion, your key takeaways that we need to walk away from this podcast and then implement what would be the key takeaways? Start with Chris. Go.

SPEAKER_00 50:21

I honestly it's I think it's both of you. It's to build your base. Um, and not in actual terms, but in perceptual terms. You are both amnesic or magicians who have magically forgotten the core of your own competence. And and it's very, very common for people that are either kind of continually looking for more or who you know come to golf with expectations because they've been successful elsewhere to kind of diminish or devalue uh their abilities uh and and things that extend beyond. So I think for both of you, it's it's build the base. Uh, you know, I think the the the grittiness that comes from that is almost kind of automatic because the stronger that anchor is in the mountain, it just gets harder for you to fall. And so then, you know, like kind of fighting through those tougher moments, it's like, well, of course you would, because you you have goals, you things you want to accomplish. Like you want to, you know, win club championships, you want to get to be a plus two, you want to like of course you're gonna kind of leverage the strength that you have, right? I mean, you're in the gym lifting weights, like why would I lift 10 pounds when I can lift 150? So it's it becomes inevitable and it's not that complicated. It just takes the reps. So you both kind of have you know your kind of individual tasks to be reflecting on. Um, and I look for the listeners too. I mean, there is zero downside to doing both of these tasks for each of you, uh for every one of you, because from a character standpoint, from a personal standpoint, you know, that that there's a lot that a lot of golfers, a lot of golfers gen tend to be successful elsewhere. And if the if there's strength and integrity that's not being used on the golf course, well then you're then having to learn it out of from scratch. It's like why why? Like just make the transition, use that. But then of course, you got to use that to build the real skill in golf. And so then we kind of need to have greater understandings of the things that we are great at any level. I mean, you're a 30 handicap, you're still great relative to an absolute beginner at certain aspects of the game. Every player has the ability to feel confident. Confidence is not about competence, confidence is about how accurate you are in understanding your competence. That is what creates the confidence. So, yeah, both of you have, you know, kind of your marching orders to build that that base. And yeah, there's no doubt that you're gonna have challenges. Um, you know, I think secondarily for Chris, it's the um, you know, that commitment. That's gonna take some practice, right? To and I and actually on the range, I would practice this because there's gonna be times where you can be very target-oriented and you know, kind of have that second guessing. Just practice walking away, going back to your bag and grabbing the other club. Sounds ridiculous, but I'm certain that there's a social element to it where you don't want to, you know, go back and pick another club and kind of look indecisive. Well, that's that's challenging, right?

SPEAKER_03 53:17

No, thank you so much. I think when we get to speak to someone like yourself, it really does open my eyes. I get to learn so much. So I thank you for that. And it's been a great conversation.

SPEAKER_00 53:28

You're welcome. But I would I would I would uh urge you to start to consolidate because if you have these great conversations every week and there's like more and more and more, then things are gonna get lost. Like it's like you can't learn out, like you've got to take time to truly create mastery. If you're not doing that, then the gap between your best and your worst is just gonna keep getting wider, and that's gonna actually make you more unstable, and you know, all the all the bad things that are currently happening are gonna continue.

SPEAKER_02 53:57

Yeah. And just in terms of that base that you think he and I, Chris and I need to work on, that's us pretty much kind of on the spot, like journaling or writing down what our good attributes are that are not attached to competency or anything like that. It's just good characteristics that would mean we are confident individuals. Is is that am I getting that right?

SPEAKER_00 54:26

So yes, yeah. So for you, yes, it's more on a personal level. For Chris, it's more on a technical golf level. Got it. Um but it's the yeah, so writing it down five minutes a day, like getting that list, then spending time uh like reviewing that list and connecting to specific memories and experiences that uh kind of underpin it. Um and and then you start testing it, right? Kind of seeing how it shows up in certain moments. And if it's not, then you're connecting to it in real time on the golf course. So on that first T, on that third hole, you're right, where things start to get a little squirrely, you're taking a few deep breaths if you want to, and thinking about that base, thinking about the core of your competence on a personal level, on a technical level, and that will kind of take away some of the you know fear of embarrassment, some of the pressure, perhaps some of the uncertainty.

SPEAKER_02 55:18

Um after it. Perfect. Let's get after it, Chris. Let's get after it. Uh, you you haven't heard the last from us, Jared. We'd love to check in.

SPEAKER_00 55:28

I hope at a minimum I can get an update. That would that would be great.

SPEAKER_02 55:30

Well, just we would love to check in on you uh later in the season and let you know how we're getting on. And all the very best with the book, Jared. Uh, you know, I highly recommend it to anyone. It really is well worth reading if you're like us, uh club golfer, a golfer at any level, really, just wanting to get better. And so thank you so much again for joining us on How Low Can You Go.

SPEAKER_00 55:59

Yeah, you're very welcome. I mean, I guess at a minimum, you know, for the price of two sleeves of balls, which has to save you two sleeves of balls, you know, you can get the book.

SPEAKER_01 56:09

Excellent. Right, thanks so much. Appreciate it. Thanks, guys.

SPEAKER_02 56:17

Huge thank you to Jared Tandler for joining us. For me, one of the biggest takeaways from this conversation was the idea that improvement isn't just about getting better, it's about recognizing how much better you've already become. Whether you're trying to break 100, break 90, get the single figures, or get scratch golf. I think there's something in this episode that every golfer can learn from. If you enjoyed the conversation, please follow the podcast, leave us a review, share the episode with a golfing friend who wants to get better at golf. We will be back next week with another episode. Until then, keep getting better, keep chasing improvement, and we'll see you next time on Hilo Can You Go.