How to Fail Your Way to Lower Scores | Keeks Golf | Part 1

🚨The biggest thing stopping you lowering your scores isn’t your golf swing… it’s your fear of failure.

In this episode of How Low Can You Go, we sit down with Keeks Golf to explore the side of golf that rarely gets talked about openly.

From sitting in the car park too nervous to walk into the driving range, to wondering if she even belonged at a golf club, Keeks shares the fears, setbacks and breakthroughs that have shaped her journey through the game.

This isn’t an episode about perfect swings or Tour-level golf.

It’s about confidence.

It’s about failure.

It’s about learning to enjoy the process of getting better.

Whether you’re trying to break 100, break 90, improve your golf mindset, build confidence on the course, or simply enjoy the game more, you’ll almost certainly recognise parts of your own journey in this conversation.

⛳ In Part One, we discuss:

✅ How Keeks first discovered golf

✅ Golf anxiety and first-tee nerves

✅ Feeling like you don’t belong at a golf club

✅ Why so many golfers fear failure

✅ Learning to embrace competition golf

✅ Building confidence as an amateur golfer

✅ Why documenting the journey has inspired thousands of golfers

🎙️ Coming Up in Part Two…

🏌️ Breaking 90

🧠 The mental game

🏆 Playing alongside professionals

⛳ Competition golf

🎯 Why breaking 85 is now firmly in Keeks’ sights

📲 Follow Keeks Golf

📸 Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/keeksgolf/

📺 YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/@keeksgolf

🎙️ ABOUT THE SHOW

How Low Can You Go is the golf improvement podcast following two amateur golfers on their journey to lower their handicaps and shoot their lowest ever scores.

Each week we sit down with the world’s leading golf coaches, psychologists, Tour players, performance experts and everyday golfers to uncover what actually moves the needle.

Whether you’re trying to break 100, break 90, break 80, improve your golf swing, sharpen your golf mindset, manage your golf psychology or simply enjoy the game more, every episode is packed with practical insights to help you become a better golfer.

🎧 Listen now and start turning bad rounds into better golf.

📲 Follow How Low Can You Go

📸 Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/howlowcanyougopodcast/

📺 YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/@HowLowCanYouGoPodcast

💌 Contact
howlowcanyougopodcast@gmail.com

⭐ If you enjoyed this episode, please follow the podcast, leave us a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating and share it with a golfing friend. It genuinely helps us reach more golfers who are on exactly the same journey.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

I'm happy to make an art of myself because I've done it. I've done it. Golf is all about failure. But if you can pick yourself back up again, fail again. Fail again. Like it just golf makes you so resilient.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

Welcome back to Hilo Can You Go. Now, if you're a regular listener, you will know that most we are sitting down with some of the smartest minds in the golf improvement industry. Coaches, psychologists, performance experts. But every golfer listening knows that understanding improvement and actually living through improvement are two very different things. So today's guest, Keek of Geek Golf. Over the last few years, she's documented her journey through the game in public. The nerves, the frustration, the breakthroughs, and the occasional triumphs that have kept us all coming back. And that's why we wanted to have her on High Low Temigo, because while most golfers will never know what it's like to play on turf, almost every golfer knows what it's like to doubt themselves, to struggle with confidence, to wonder whether they're ever going to reach the goals they've set themselves. So in this first part, we talk about how Kik found golf, the barrier she had to overcome, learning to embrace failure, and why confidence might be one of the biggest skills any golfer can develop. So this is part one with Kik. This is How Low Can You Go. How low can you go? Okay, okay. Welcome back everyone once again to How Low Can You Go, the Golf Improvement Podcast, Born in Scotland, the show where we set ourselves ambitious golfing targets, and then we go ahead and smash those targets. Isn't that right, Chris?

SPEAKER_01 2:26

That is right, Dave. We have set those ambitious targets, but we're still trying to reach those ambitious targets.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

So hopefully we get there soon. Yeah, someone who has recently, speaking of smashing targets, somebody who's recently smashed a personal golfing target who has also developed a huge following online, on socials, on Instagram, documenting her golf journey. Keeks joining us from Glasgow in Scotland. Welcome to How Low Can You Go. It's good to have you with us. Wow. Well, we are absolutely honored to have you on for your first podcast. And I think anyone who's been following us for a while will know that most weeks on How Low Can You Go, we sit down with performance experts, leading minds in the world of golf improvement to learn how to get better at golf ourselves. But we also know that improvement isn't just theory, it is real people like ourselves trying to put that advice into practice. So today we thought it would be good to get you on the show, Keeks, because we feel like we're speaking to one of us, a golfer, trying to get better, battling the same frustrations, the same fears, and the same breakthroughs that we're going to come to in a moment, that every club golfer experiences. Um, for anyone who's listening who's maybe not seen your profile online or anything like that, do you want to just give everyone a little bit of your background, like how you started golf relatively recently, and then you know, where that's kind of taken you and how you've developed this really amazing following who are really checking out your journey as you get better at golf?

SPEAKER_02 4:12

I started when I was doing my honors for architecture, and I was working, I did a full-time in the office, in an architect's office, then part-time through university, and obviously architecture is so male-dominated. So, what I think there were two girls in this office of like 60 guys, and every June they'd host a big golf tournament up in Glen Eagles, and it would be like contractors would be there, subcontractors, it would be a huge event, and obviously I didn't golf, and there'd all be golf chat in the office. And I was like, right, well, I've dominated the male career in architecture. Well, not dominated, but I'm in there. So I'm like, let's try the male sport.

SPEAKER_00 4:52

So um so you were feeling hold on, you just you were feeling like kind of a bit like FOMO, a bit sort of like you were missing out on something, seeing that and it was mostly lads who were heading out to play golf.

SPEAKER_02 5:05

Yeah, and they all get so excited about it, and I don't know, I just they definitely get so um it's exciting stuff, like come on. And then at that time, you want to like impress your boss. Um, this job I was in, it was a really good architect firm. So I knew that when I got my masters, I'd be going in full time. So then I wanted to learn how to golf. My brother, he's a really good golfer. So then I said to my brother, take me to the golf range, teach me how to swing, thinking it was that easy. Idiot. I I think I don't I don't know what made me do it, but I put a camera up and and I remember balancing on a water bottle and I would just film it, filming swinging, and I put it onto TikTok, and the title was Day One of Learning How to Golf. And obviously, I wasn't I wouldn't watch golf social media, so I wouldn't realise how embarrassing it actually is. I mean, day one of learning how to golf, but you guys can imagine.

SPEAKER_01 5:57

Everybody everybody starts somewhere.

SPEAKER_02 6:01

So then I noticed my socials were then I started on Instagram, and then I was like picking up followers. So then by the time I was graduating my master's, I think I had maybe like 50k followers on my Instagram.

SPEAKER_04 6:16

Wow, right.

SPEAKER_02 6:16

I didn't enjoy the office, so then I was like, right, I'm either gonna go full-time into the office or can I take a gap year and see where social media takes me and see if I don't know this whole golf thing. Because at that point I was like, Oh, I think you can earn money on social media, and I didn't take a gap year through university and I didn't want to work in the office, so then I used that as an excuse, and I was like, right guys, I'll I'll can I defer can I come back in a year? And I'm just gonna take a gap year and concentrate on my socials, and I've I've never been back, and I never got to play that golf tournament in Glen Eagles either. I've just got to go.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

Oh, you destroyed them as well, you showed them never being back, you know. Yeah, that is like honestly addressed, that is like living the dream. So many guys talk talk to each other about oh, whenever I retire and get to play golf all the time. But Kiggs, who is a relative newcomer to the sport, pretty much plays golf for a living. That's incredible.

SPEAKER_02 7:07

That's why I get so embarrassed when people are like much money handicapped, I play full time.

SPEAKER_01 7:13

But do you think, see, if you hadn't taken the leap and became a golf content creator, do you think you would have been back in the office just like I don't want to do this? Like, what do you think life would have been like for Keeks like if you didn't do that?

SPEAKER_02 7:27

I think I oh god, I don't know actually. I really didn't like the office at all. Like, so I only really got my masters, so I didn't have to go full time. So I was like, oh, let me do my master's for another year. Continue.

SPEAKER_00 7:39

Right, okay, it was one of those where you sort of like do more studying because you're still not quite sure if this is for you, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:47

I'd probably go on to do a PhD and be like, oh do the PhD came back in five years. So I think I probably would have gone on to study something maybe like I went to art school, so I loved art school, and that's why I love content creating, because it is it's like I love thinking of it's like a mini movie.

SPEAKER_04 8:04

I love thinking about the end of it.

SPEAKER_02 8:06

So I think at least I still get that creative aspect. Whereas anyone who works in architecture in the office, it was sanitary drawings, wall finishes, it it was not like art school, they really don't sell it to you in that way. It was just both not for me at all.

SPEAKER_01 8:21

And did you ever see you said it was really hard at this when you first started? You thought it was like, oh, but like I'll give it a shot, and you're like, This is so hard. Did you ever have a point where you're like, nah, I'm not gonna do this? Or gaining followers, did that help?

SPEAKER_02 8:33

No, gaining the followers did help. I feel like you can see the progress in golf so fast, and then it just plateaus, and then you're like, Oh yeah, and then I didn't have a coach. I would get like coaching, you know, it's that way for your Christmas, you'll get three someone bought you three lessons off a random coach, and then you're like, Oh yeah, that's good, and then you never go back to see them. And then I would get like sporadic lessons from like one of the coaches at the golf range, but it was never consistent, and now looking back, I'm like, I wish I'd started to get consistent coaching. Yeah, probably three and a half I didn't have a coach. Um because there were moments I was like, if it weren't for social media, would you still be golfing?

SPEAKER_00 9:12

You sort of feel almost like you can't you don't want to let the new followers down um because they're wanting to see like regular updates. And as as a beginner, fairly recently, like what did you say, kind of like three, four years ago, was that right?

SPEAKER_02 9:29

Yeah, nearly four years actually.

SPEAKER_00 9:30

Trying to break into a sport like golf that I think like let's face it, still can be I think things are changing, but it still can feel a bit like a bit of a male-dominated kind of boys' club. And you know, going in as a girl and also as a complete beginner, what was that like? Was that intimidating, or are you somebody who just goes for a new challenge and feels really confident and assertive in that situation?

SPEAKER_02 9:54

Well, when I started, I went to the range and stuck to the range for a year and a half. Like I did onto the golf course because just be is I just because I I wanted to like once I can swing properly, then I won't I was excuse every excuse. But now that I've definitely gone through that and now I'm like I don't care about embarrassing myself. I so now when it comes to like a like playing in the program in Turkey, anything golf-wise, I'm happy to make an art of myself because I've done it. I've done it so I and that's the thing like golf is all about failure, but if you can pick yourself back up again, fail again, fail again. But then you always have that like moment of I don't know, like it just golf makes you so resilient. So I feel like it like what did you say it you can about a new challenge, you can just step into it. I feel like golf makes you that type of person.

SPEAKER_00 10:51

Yeah, I think definitely if you let it, I think what you were saying there is really interesting in that I think so many of us and myself, I was certainly that person where I didn't want anyone to see me play golf, you know. If I was out on a golf course, I'd rather just be by myself, um, and you know, just didn't have that kind of confidence. But then if you get to this point that you're describing where you just go up, well, screw it, you know, I'm gonna be willing to accept whatever happens here and make an arse of myself to use your your words, um, then I think that's quite liberating in many ways. Because like I think was I am I right in saying that there was a time whenever you were starting out the range, you you felt like you didn't want to even get out of your car and step into a range bay, you'd be sitting there psyching yourself up for a while, is that right?

SPEAKER_02 11:45

Yeah, I used to sit in my car and like doom scroll for like 20 minutes, or like what or like go through like old videos, be like, right, what was I doing there? What do I need to work on? And you build up this narrative in your head that everyone's looking at you, everyone's touching you, but no one cares. Even like I've had times I this way I post the video even with my driver, I skied it and hit the roof, and I'm like we've all done that, been there done that. Yeah, even if you go to a range, you always hear like knocks on the door, knocks on the walls, knocks on the and I'm like, it's until you realize everyone and you always assume that everyone's a better golfer than you. Like even before watching them swing, the guy in front of you're like, Oh, he's better than me, he's so and then he's like shanking against the wall, and you're like, Oh. And it's like him because it's like golf's hard. So I feel I feel like golf isn't a judgmental zone because we all understand how hard it is, and that everyone's at different stages, and even like good people have bad days, and it's all relative. So I think it's like everyone having that understanding of like golf can suck.

SPEAKER_01 13:01

And did you did you ever when you were at the range for like that first year and a half, were people giving you like unsolicited advice? Because I feel like that happens all the time.

SPEAKER_02 13:11

Like not really, actually. Just so weird. Because like I'd always have my camera set up. No, I'd actually never really got unsolicited advice.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

That's good to hear. I think I think we've said this. We we we don't like unsolicited advice podcast we think that that should be banned from golf. Anyone who's an average or even worse golfer trying to offer up advice should be escorted off the premises.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

I had it I had it recently where I was playing um playing a course up in um up in the Highlands, and I like I know my game, I'm really confident in my game. And someone has said, like, oh, you're hitting driver here. And then all of a sudden in my head, I was just like, Why wouldn't I hit driver? But then as I'm standing over the golf ball, I'm second guessing myself, and I just was like, I've seen that guy in another light. Like I was just like, I do not agree with what you've just done to my head, and I'm someone that on the golf course, like I think you've got to like a fantastic place where you don't really care what people think about you because we were speaking to John Sherman that said it's like the what did you say of the content creator? Like, obviously, your curse the curse of the content creator. Of the content creator for me, it is like I literally have the con obviously we're not at your levels, but it's just people will message and be like, Hope you're getting to your to the goals that you won. And you see them at the golf club and they're like, How are you getting on?

SPEAKER_02 14:42

And you're just Dave and I are just like we started every single time I go into my golf club. People I've I've never I don't I don't know anyone by name, they go, Oh, you broke an idiot, you broke an idiot. And I'm like, No, no, but now I can say yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:58

But do you find it and that's that's and how good is that moment? But but do you feel like yes, to Chris's point, it's definitely sometimes a bit of a burden because you're thinking, right, I'm hanging myself out to dry in public, I'm putting stuff out there, I'm vulnerable here. I'm saying I want to get to this target, and some weeks I'm absolutely nowhere near that target. However, the fact that you're just going through this and it's not killing us uh is kind of making us stronger, possibly. Do you agree with that?

SPEAKER_02 15:32

Yeah, a hundred percent. And I think the most is why I like it's so it's so liberating to go to these places and see as long as you've been honest with your content and what you're showing is honest, and it's it's you at your core belief, your core value, and it's like you can walk anywhere with your head held high and be like, yeah, I was honest. Like that for that's a huge like looking back, there was there were times where I wish I could only show my good shots and and but imagine me turning up to events or turning up to medals or anywhere and people are like, Oh, she doesn't play how she does online. Uh that's my nightmare. That's my whereas I can't it's more so like the opposite. I think I I show how bad I am online, whereas when it comes to my good moments light in a pro am where I win, I get called a bandit. And I had someone actually saying, Oh, you're handicapped, head dodgy.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

I think the content creators very often you see a highly edited version of of their golf uh of their golf games. But yes, well, speaking of bandits, to be honest, uh Keeks, and anyone listening who hasn't checked out your profile online, I'm sure a lot of our listeners already do follow you, but um, you know, when I first saw that swing, Chris, I was like, whoa, that is a good golf swing. I because I actually didn't, I wasn't aware of your backstory until we started this podcast. And I, when I first saw it, and I don't mean this to just butter you up, Kick, because I was like, all right, is she like a kind of a girl who's who's knocking on the door of the LPGA or is she knocking on the door of like college golf or something like that? It is a really, really good golf swing. It really is.

SPEAKER_02 17:17

I think I have like I said, I'm a ra I'm a I've been something I realize I have the past three years, three and a half years, I've been playing golf swing. To be fair, if you compared my swing now though to maybe like seven months ago, because six months ago I got a new coach, my swing has come on unbelievable and I've really worked because my C off the T so inconsistent. When the minute I step onto a course, I just inconsistent top it thin it. Whereas that's reducing so much now, but now that my swing's improved, uh by the time I get to like 50 yards before the green, I I don't practice my potty, don't practice my shipping. My mental game is so bad that I do score like 94s.

SPEAKER_01 18:05

I think we're in the same uh boat here where my mental side on the course is like killing my game. And we spoke about this, Dave, and Dave and I obviously message a lot. And I do I do think, like you're saying, um having that better mental game really pushes your golf on. And I I think that kind of like getting up 50 yards, and if you kind of hold your head high and be like, no, I've got this, I definitely think like it'll get like it'll get so much better, but it's it's easier said than done, I suppose.

SPEAKER_00 18:39

Completely, and and and we want to talk about you kind of breaking through a significant scoring barrier in a moment, but just quickly back on so you spent time on the range, it seems it's a lot of that was time well spent, because like I say, I think the golf swing looks really, really good, in my own humble opinion. But then you did eventually then join a golf club near Glasgow, right? And what was that like as a kind of somebody who hadn't played a lot on the course before, you know, as we mentioned earlier, as a girl, kind of trying to play golf on a golf course whenever it's quite male-dominated. What was that like?

SPEAKER_02 19:21

Um so the first course that I was playing was it was part of a gym, but no dress code, it was chill, it was chilling. Um and I liked it because no one would really be bothered. But I think that was the problem. My mum wanted and I wanted to be part of a club that was like private and it was safe, and because this was like anyone could go on, so I was like, figure out, and I was getting messages of being like, Oh, I saw you out at X course, um and then I had I'm like, anyone can go on to that course. So I wanted to go to a private club, and my brother was a member of this club, and it's very like school tie, stricter episode, no changing your shoes in the golf course, put car park. Old school, yeah, which I kinda like. I like I kinda like those.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

Yeah, we like a bit of that, don't we, Chris? You know, I I like a bit of pomp and ceremony that comes with golf. Come on.

SPEAKER_01 20:12

Yeah, I love the etiquette to golf. I think I mean I'm very much I think that we should keep all the etiquette. There's certain things, but I definitely think like what you're saying with your golf course, where it's like the shoes, like don't do it beside the car and stuff like that. So, yeah, sorry, your golf course you were saying you got to join that the one that your brother was at.

SPEAKER_02 20:31

Yeah, um that was daunting because again, I just thought everyone was golf and the women section, it was they were all part of like the partners membership because they were the the partners of the main members, which were the men. So I think I was one of the only ladies who was a full member because I was a lot older and married to her husband. Um so and also I like to golf alone. I so I used to just go out really late and make sure I'd even skip the first T, go into the second hole so no one could watch my TV off.

SPEAKER_00 21:07

We need to do that at Murrayfield presentation.

SPEAKER_02 21:08

Yeah, I know the the first T narbs get to but nah, it was there was a lot of anxiety built up at the golf club, and also it's not until you actually meet members, and you know when like you look at a group of let's say men standing the first tee, and in my head they're like I'm almost assuming they're just mean and they're like, Oh my god, they're totally judging me, they so think I'm bad, they like literally looking at me and they think that I'm just a stupid girl, and then they are so nice, and they're like, Oh hey, how are you? When did you join? I feel girls do this thing where they just assume that men of golf clubs are thinking badly of them. But I've I mean they might, but from my experience they're not. Anyone I've spoken to in my club or any other. Club, they're so nice and so supportive, so it's almost like I've had to learn to stop creating that narrative in my head. And it's like if you you can't control what other people think, so if you just think that everyone is supportive and everyone is nice, whether they're male or female, then it's that makes life easier for you. Whereas but I was the complete opposite before.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

And did you did you find like um say for once you got confident playing off the first T, not like jump to the second T and stuff like that? Did you have you got into competitions at your golf course? Like is that in the ladies section or what's the setup at your course?

SPEAKER_02 22:35

So it used to be I joined in August, August before last, and then the medal started up in March, and I didn't think I was good enough to do the medals, so then I left the medals until a few months after. Then I was I was just doing the ladies' partner medals. So partner medals, and then you had the men's medals. So I was doing the partner medals, and then up until the last month I started to do the men's medals.

SPEAKER_04 23:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 23:05

And obviously it in the rule book it's not men's, it was just full members, so I was allowed to do it. Um and I embarrassed myself. I was I was bad, I wasn't good. But it kind of like it the whole winter of me practicing then pushed me to like no but come here. I want to play good in the men's medals, I want to play good. And then now the medals have started again. My club have now changed the medals to partner medals, and they're now called mixed medals, so the women into the medals.

SPEAKER_00 23:36

Um because of you, because because of Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:41

Yeah, because also there was I did a few competitions and it was in like four balls, and I'd be the only girl sitting, you know, and they have like the whole social lunch afterwards, and it's not until I'd and you'd say the captain would say, Oh, we're making history here because first female member to enter the competition. So it's not until moments like that I'm like, oh, like and my club didn't allow women up until like five years ago. So I'm happy that I've kind of made history.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

Okay, just before we get back into the conversation with Cakes, this is exactly why we wanted her on the podcast. The reality is that most golfers are just trying to get a little bit better themselves. And what Keeks is talking about here nerves, self-doubt, feeling out of place, worrying about competition golf is exactly why so many golfers are struggling. So if that sounds familiar, you're definitely not alone. And if you're enjoying these conversations, make sure you're following the podcast wherever you're listening. It really helps us keep bringing you both the experts and the real stories from golfers along the way. Okay, let's get back into the conversation. You're a trailblazer. Yeah, no, you have. Absolutely. And we should celebrate that. We should definitely celebrate that. Um, we, Chris and I, we're part of Murrayfield, which I think I could be wrong on this, but it's got a significant ladies section. It might actually be the biggest uh ladies section in Scotland, uh certainly in Edinburgh, I believe it is, um, which is something to be proud of, I think. And yeah, definitely. You know, Keeks, from your perspective, you that that seems like a big leap to have gone from being a bit too fearful to play even off the first T to then go to the club and say, here, is there any chance women could start playing in some of these competitions? Could I join the men's competitions? Like that is like a really, really uh big step to take. Uh like what can you pinpoint any like particular moments in your kind of golf experience that that m helped you break through to being somebody who was afraid to leave the car park at a driving range, afraid to play all the first T, to then uh changing the game in some ways at your home club where it's uh mixed competitions, including yourself, but albeit you'll be playing with a lot of men in these competitions. Like, what would you say you could pinpoint that that led to that kind of increased security or confidence?

SPEAKER_02 26:37

Um I think just wanting to be good so desperately. So then I just think watching, I think maybe because my brother's a really good golfer, just in general, I think I want to be good so bad. And I think it's kind of liberating to to play with the men, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 26:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:00

And I'm like, I desperately, and you know, you guys know I've struggled with hang my driver for so long, and I just think that's one thing. I'd love to be that person that who's a driver and just like fires it down the fairway. You guys say that we're like that because we know we're a good golfer.

SPEAKER_00 27:17

No like it's a safe place as somebody like myself. I struggled with driver for a long time. It's it's getting a little bit better in recent times, but yeah, I know what you've been through with that with that club, particularly.

SPEAKER_01 27:28

Yeah, no, I think it I I was listening to this podcast where it was like Adam Young, John Sherman, and they were talking about how basically it's like you can't put everything on to like being like be it was like this last week because all of a sudden, you know, if you practice too much, your back goes a little bit tighter, so then you're not hitting the driver, and then all of a sudden you're like, but I was a good driver of the golf ball, and then your whole identity kind of like is up in the air. Like I always think that I'm a good driver of the golf ball, and then all of a sudden, like a week later, Dave, you've seen it, I don't know what I'm doing with it, and then my putting gets better, and then my like you're I think you're a bit hard on yourself, Chris.

SPEAKER_00 28:07

Like you are a pretty good driver of the golf ball. Like, come on.

SPEAKER_01 28:11

But it's there's levels to where I like you were always like you're saying, you want to be that good golfer, and you're always holding yourself to that like kind of like standard, and when it doesn't happen, you're almost like, Well, who like what am I doing here? Like I thought I was getting better, and then I'm I'm not, but I like I always think it's like that kind of like the graph of it's going up, and sometimes you will be going up and down, but you want to just make sure that you're on that constant climb. I find do you find that with your golf now? Obviously, because we're gonna get to this, but you've achieved something great recently in your golf, and if you want to tell the people, um, because like we've been watching obviously on your socials, but you you managed to achieve one of your like goals in your golf game. So tell us how that went.

SPEAKER_02 29:04

Um you know, everyone said so many people in the comments, you'll break 90, mean to quit. And I was like, I don't I was like, I don't know what you mean by that. I just thought it was like uh like oh you'll feel better soon, like kind of one of those comments, like but it was nor I always do I do a lot of programs, and normally it's a four-ball scramble, whatever chilling. So this was for this was a three-day program in Turkey and it was the last minute that was lighted, so when I was over there, I thought it'd be a free fun four ball, and then so I wasn't really stressed about it, and it was until we turned up the first day and I met my throat tea because I played so well the first day, I had so much expectation for the second day, and I flunked the second the second day was horrific. So all I was thinking of was trying to break down to say stroke by throat funk it was so bad, and the second day from like forget breaking down screamer, do it you're only playing hole by hole so you can get as many points as possible. And then I I was so focused and zoned in because my c not my caddy, the pro was so far.

SPEAKER_00 30:18

He turned into your caddy, I think, by the time hit this club.

SPEAKER_02 30:23

But this time the past two days he learned a lot about my game, so yeah, like 100 yards in, there's your club, and I'm just hit. And by the time I got to like hole 12, we were both just like so in the flow of like zoned in. And then it wasn't until we were in hole 18. He was like, Oh, like by the way, I think you broke a 910. I was like, What? And I thought I ended up shooting at 87. And smashed it. I know three better than your actual and I didn't even it wasn't it's something that I've just learned. I'm like, we should play golf. Like, even when I don't keep score, I never keep score in my head. I just do it until I'm like, oh, I shot this.

SPEAKER_04 31:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:00

But it's not if you just do like hole by hole and forget what happened in the previous hole. So it didn't change my swing. My putting was really good. But to be fair, he did give me all my lines and my putts.

SPEAKER_01 31:11

Um you you mean you had to hit the putts, that's what you need to remember as well. Give give yourself that as well.

SPEAKER_02 31:17

True. And then oh just like I don't know, just like letting go and like not being so fast and trying to break 90 and like believing you could do it.

SPEAKER_00 31:26

Um yeah, because you you'd you'd done this whole thing, just for context for anyone listening, you'd done this whole 30-day challenge not that long ago, right? This sort of like, can I break 90 in 30 days? And I think that's what's great about the stuff that you put out is that it does have that vulnerability where it's not like, oh, this is just a fix and she just breaks 90 right at the end of it or something like that. It's like, you know, you're you're really demonstrating how hard you're trying, but you didn't pull it off, and like you got to the 30-day uh marker and you hadn't broken 90. And then lo and behold, like what how long how many weeks later? Just a few weeks later, and then there you go. No, that's really, really good.

SPEAKER_02 32:10

It was inspiring watching because basically, like I didn't realise that the clutch tour for three days was all these players, was it 100 or 80? Anyway, and it was watching them for the three days compete. It was a pro winner, an amateur winner, and a team winner. They're all taking it seriously because they want to win for money. So I it was almost like I was on tour. Well, I was on tour, I was on tour with them because I was in the same hotel, same restaurant, same routine. So I was able to watch all these pros, even you know, honestly, even down to like nutrition, I watched how much they ate during the rounds, before the rounds, after the rounds, and I'm so guilty of like I zone out. I literally zone out whereas I've never been so it tired after 18 holes because I had to concentrate for 18 holes. It wasn't until after three days I'm like, you don't concentrate, and I don't because I just think that it's all golf is a physical thing, and if oh I can't swing the club, it's fine. I'm like, if you actually just focus, you can do it. And then I don't know what's weird, it's so weird. Like, even down to like nutrition, I realize I don't I do not eat enough before around the golf, I don't eat enough during golf, I've not been drinking enough during golf until I watched my pro and I watched everyone else. And and sometimes this this is the embarrassing thing, I never want to take it too seriously because in my head I'm like well Krima, you're just a 20-handicamp, that's low key embarrassing if you take it seriously. But I'm like, I did take it seriously, and I broke a seven. And then one time I was before medal, and I was practicing on the punting green, and someone walked by and he was like, Oh, you're taking this very seriously, and I was like, Oh my god, Krima, that is so embarrassing. Why are you practicing before medal? Like, that is you're so you're such a beginner golfer, Kumar just chill. Why are you practicing you're taking this?

SPEAKER_01 34:09

And ever since he said that that stuck in my brain, and all the people that we speak to are like, you have to practice, you like you have to practice like so much as like like repeat, repeat, repeat all your practice, like your drills and stuff like that. Um so that's what we were talking about is like unsolicited advice from an amateur golfer. It's like you didn't need to say that, just carry on walking on with your day.

SPEAKER_00 34:36

But also, did you find and I think this is the great thing about breaking through a barrier, no matter what level you're at in golf. I think some of the advice that we've had from people like Carl Morris on this podcast, where you should be focused on your intention for every shot. And that's not to say, Keeks, that you just take everything really seriously and you're just a really serious person the entire time. You know, we talked about this with John Sherman recently, Chris, where it's like you you chat away with your playing partners, you chew the fat, you have a laugh, whatever you want to do, but then you get to the business end whenever you're locked into the shop. And it sounds like you playing with that pro was an amazing experience that brought that out, where it was like this pro was telling you, here's where you should be getting your ball to here. Okay. Here's your target. This is a good target for you. And so you had that intention. You were able to lock into that intention rather than if you're someone like me, you could be standing there going, oh no, don't hit it out of bounds. Oh no, watch out for the water, watch out for the bunker, don't do that, don't chunk it. You know, all of those different don'ts. Whereas I think having that clear intention can really help people break through uh their scoring barriers for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:03

I was just gonna say about the drinking and eating. Carl Morris said to us when we were speaking to him that if you are prone to forgetting to drink or eat, he said, try and give yourself every three holes, you have a drink of water or you eat food. If you can yeah, break up into like every three holes, it'd just be like, well, third hole, like forget what's just happened there, have a drink of water, and then just take on the next three holes and then the next three holes. Like break it up.

SPEAKER_00 36:31

You can divide it up any way you want. They also said stuff like if can because sometimes 18 holes feels like a long journey, doesn't it? It feels like a lot, you know. It feels like I'm gonna be exhausted at the end of this. Whereas he's like, if you break it up into little bite-sized chunks and then reset after each, it sometimes uh can have a really good knock-on effect on how you focus and how you how you play.

SPEAKER_02 36:55

I think the main issue is that see when you have a round and all you do is think of your swing. And even when you're standing over the ball also I realized how sometimes my pre-shot routine, now tell them a pro this, my pre-shot routine before the past three days was hover over the ball and thinking, cream up or oh god, cream, hit the ball, and I'm screaming in my head, I'm like, hit the damn ball, woman. Like that's literally my pre-shot routine, whereas now watching the pros, I'm like, they are almost selfish with their pre-shot routine and they really like focus and and I think thinking of that intention helps you pull that trigger. Whereas if you're hovering over the wall, thinking of hips rotating, backswing, it's almost like the intention, like you said, takes away your swing thoughts.

SPEAKER_01 37:48

Yeah, definitely. Dave knows my concentration like yourselves lacks at times, like say, for example, when I was playing at the weekend there, I was standing over a putt and I knew it was going downhill, and I seen dog walkers in my peripheral.

SPEAKER_04 38:03

Really?

SPEAKER_01 38:04

And all I'm thinking about is the dog walkers. Like I wasn't thinking about the putt, hit the putt, and I like spanked it by like six foot, and I was just like, I went like guy was like, What are you doing? I was just like, all I was thinking about was that the dog walkers behind me. I and because it's that kind of thing of your playing partners are like, hurry up, they're not, but I was kind of thinking if I step off this golf ball, then all of a sudden they're like, What's he doing? But at the end of the day, like it would have saved me a par instead of a bogey. And obviously, you do the content creation and stuff like that, and you've said that you've got to this point where you're like, I've put myself out there, I'm like, I tell the truth with how I play, I show the bad shots, I show the good shots. Like, when you're going away to places like so I'm a member at Nairn, and when I was up there recently, they had said that you'd obviously visited, and and they were saying that you'd um this uh little girl came up to sign your golf ball. Tell us what's that feeling like of like when you go to places now and you've got people like noticing you and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 39:05

Or the little girl asked Cakes to sign her golf ball, maybe rather than she signed yours.

SPEAKER_02 39:13

Um it is kind of surreal, but I think it's not until it's not until it happens, then it's like, oh yeah, I'm like I am Keith's golf, that's kind of cool. Whereas I think maybe I don't walk into golf clubs being like I'm Keith, I have X. Like I if anything, it's more so like I'm just in my head, I re I see myself as a 20 handicap and I walk into golf clubs and I'm like, oh I hope they don't I hope they don't know how rubbish I am at golf. Like that goes through my head, and then it isn't it's not until someone like adds for a picture. I'm like, I'm like, oh yeah, but like that you being rubbish at golfing showing that is that's the reason you're here, like you're fine, you're liberating like being an amateur golfer, you're fine. Um but it is surreal, but then sometimes that comes with like paranoia as well. Like I'm I'm on the golf range, and I'm if someone looks at me, I'm like, oh my god, do they know who I am? Or are they are they judging me? Like, do they know that I'm a shit golfer here? Um so I think that with that comes paranoia, but I I think I don't know. I'm a paranoid person now, but like um I don't know. I'm just I I think maybe because I'm my our mum's grounded us, I'm a very grounded person that I forget. I probably forget to a point that I'm too chill with people and I'm like I like overshare when I'm really chatty with like guys in the pro shop. Um but and I I don't realise that they might know who I am, but um or like if I'm at the golf range or at the range before I tee off and I'm with my brother and I start to like sulk or get angry because I'm hitting it so bad. Um he's like, Kimmer, like there's people over there, they're gonna know who you are, and I'm like, oh yeah, I'd chill.

SPEAKER_00 40:58

Have you has there been any like club throw any club throws or or anything like that that you've done that people have seen?

SPEAKER_02 41:04

Because I was a calorie of my sponsors, so I'm like, I represent calories, I'm not throwing Calorie clubs, I'm not losing my con like do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 41:10

I'm like, is that in your contract?

SPEAKER_02 41:15

I don't throw my what I do, I just I get really sulky. I do so like I'll I'd solve, but then I'm like, who doesn't sulk? But I sulk a lot.

SPEAKER_00 41:25

I admitted on episode one of this podcast cakes that I cried after an absolutely apocalyptic. This was quite a while ago, to be fair. This was over tw like in fairness, this was this was over 20 years ago, but underwater in a pool as well. I was on holiday with an ex-girlfriend's family. It was one of the most harrowing experiences of my life. I my body violently rejected any notion of a golf swing in front of all of my ex-girlfriends, dads, mates, and everybody there. And I jumped in the pool afterwards and I cried. I cried genuine tears after that.

SPEAKER_02 42:05

Well, you know the thing is a non-golfer might think you're being dramatic, and I'm like, no, he's definitely not. So valid, so valid. A good cry is so valid. I'm glad to hear it. I cried day two of Turkey on like all 12.

SPEAKER_00 42:22

Did you?

SPEAKER_02 42:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:24

But then it was all worth it because you because you broke you broke 90. Yeah, it's fine. We we've interesting thing on that, you know, where you said that you know you you've cried after golf. Um and like we've spoken to some of the guys we've mentioned already, like Carl Morris, who are like really renowned mental performance coaches, also Dr. Raymond Pryor, who's like kind of one of the leading sports psychologists and performance psychologist. He works with a lot of like leading actors and CEOs and that kind of thing. And he was not surprised. We we actually haven't released that as part of the podcast, but we talked about whenever I cried after playing golf. And he's he he didn't even flinch, Chris. He was just like, Yeah, yeah, I get that. I completely get that. Um, he said, Yeah, it's it's it's trauma, and a lot of people have this golf trauma. Maybe you didn't cry over it, but maybe there will be something traumatic that has happened. And the point that they were making was Keeks that your subconscious actually believes whenever you feel anxious on a golf course, your subconscious deep down actually believes that your life is in danger. And so this genuine anxiety that you feel, you know, you're telling yourself, well, this is just a game of golf. Like, why do I why do I care so much? It's it's deep down you are feeling a f a fight or flight response. And so that's why sometimes you will completely duff it off the first T is because you are experiencing that fight or flight, and your subconscious is just trying to get you out of there safely and alive, and that's it.

SPEAKER_01 43:58

It's crazy. And the mental thing with that. Just to go back to what you were saying about you seeing their nutrition and everything like that. One thing they did say as well, and Rory's really good at this, was if you are feeling that kind of built-up tension and emotion in like your the fight or flight mode, if you eat, it basically regulates your body because it tells you like if you were in so much, like imagine you were getting chased by a tiger and you stopped and had a McDonald's. Do you know what I mean? It regulates you again. So if you're ever in that kind of like, I'm feeling very like anxious on the golf course. I've done it loads of times now since hearing that. Like eating has helped me like calm down and regulate that I'm not like actually in danger, I'm just about to get a double bogey or something like that, or worse. But but yeah, no, we're we're with you on the on the side of like we've been there where it's I've I've cried as well. So it's one of those like but I'm I'm sure I was like a little bit younger than yourself, Dave, at the point where I cried.

SPEAKER_00 44:57

Whatever, whatever. I I I feel strong enough to admit all of it in this safe place, Chris. Good.

SPEAKER_01 45:04

We all need to cry here and there.

SPEAKER_00 45:06

But I do think, yeah, and it's interesting, Keeks, that you noticed all of that, like with the pros that you were uh around last week in Turkey, all of that kind of fine-tuned routine in terms of nutrition and physical uh warm-ups and health and that kind of thing. Uh, I do think, Chris, we we definitely need to do an episode on golf nutrition because I think it's an area that is really overlooked, and we're hearing more and more about that these days.

SPEAKER_02 45:33

Yeah, because I want to try to look I've tried to like do some research on it and there isn't that much research on like golf nutrition. And then I'm like, is that silly? Like, is there such a thing as golf nutrition or is nutrition just nutrition? Um but it's always the thing, it's like, is it good to have caffeine? Is it not good? Does that make you jittery? Is that makes you uh like my first go-to is at GBT, I'm like, can I have a red is it good to have a red? Can I have a red boo before golf or three?

SPEAKER_01 46:00

Um our friend uh Marcus uh Mollison, he w went to golf school and he was basically said they'd done a they put like done research on drink like if you drink a monster energy drink at the like at after nine holes, you seemingly gain two yards on your drive, but your hands in your short game are absolute shot to bits.

SPEAKER_04 46:23

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:24

Yeah, so you're standing over a putter and you're like just jittery. Um so I've got a question for you. Um so obviously you've accumulated like a massive following on your socials and stuff like that. If I gave you the choice right now to break 80 this year, because obviously you've just broke that milestone of 90 and you're an 87, so that's like three better, so you're doing amazing. Um, or get another hundred thousand followers, what would you want to do? What one would you pick?

SPEAKER_04 46:57

Break break eighty.

SPEAKER_00 46:59

Come on, yeah, and Dave, Dave's trying to get it. Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. It's fortunately for you, kiggs. I think the two will coincide. I think like as discussed, that golf swing, you are going to break 80. Like, I I I just I know that's going to happen. Um, but yeah, I think then by virtue of that, you'll probably get a lot more uh followers along the way. But yeah, no, it's it's a scoring barrier. I shot 80 last year kicks. Uh Chris was with me. I three-potted on the last hole to um just miss out on a 79. Yeah. Um, but we can smell it's coming, Chris, can't we? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:39

It's coming that way. His games got so much better, and it's like it's great to see as like a pal and a podcast uh partner. It's it's class to see, but we'll definitely we want to keep up with your journey as well, and definitely have you back on. Because I'd love to see if you could get to break an 80 before Dave. What?

SPEAKER_00 47:58

We could we could fit we could make that a little competition. Just sit on the girl's just broken 90. Now come on, like you know, let's let's take it easy here.

SPEAKER_01 48:08

I I wouldn't want to take that golf swing on. I know, but that's the thing, you're the golf swing's so good that it's like now that you've broken that barrier. Like one thing we've spoken about is um I think Bryson talked about being comfortable with going lower, and he used to like tee off from the juniors medal tees and just be under par all the time. So when the time came, he was like, whenever he was under par, he was like, Oh, it's just another Sunday. Like I think we should definitely that would be amazing to try and do is like tee off from the front tees and see if we could like go to like even a bigger extreme. Because I think you it'd be so enjoyable as well. Like you just need to keep the ball on the planet.

SPEAKER_02 48:51

Do you guys do like when you're saying, Dave, that you're trying to break 80, do you do that through or like both of you? Do you do medals or do you do general plays for your handicaps?

SPEAKER_00 49:01

A bit of both. But more general. Yeah. We try and just get out as often as we can. And you know, we've said this a few times on the podcast, it's one of the kind of dilemmas we face is is we're trying to get cards in regularly, but then it's not always possible because we don't know if we're going to get a full 18 holes in. And also, you know, slight bone of contention that we've found, Chris, is if you just card nine holes on the world handicap system at the moment, then it kind of inflates your score differential. Like Chris has found, he went round recently, shot level power on uh our front line up here, and it went down as a three over kind of score differential.

SPEAKER_01 49:43

Yeah, I was like, level power, and then that means that'll maybe be like a 1.2 or 1. And it came, it came out as a three, and I was like, that's knocked off one of my good scores. We're in this, we're in this battle just now. Like, I think you're in a really good place where you're not looking at the score, but like I attach myself to my scorecard every single round, and it's getting really bad.

SPEAKER_00 50:07

No, I I also think, yeah, we're learning a lot from what you're saying, kicks the way that you're detaching from your score. I think Chris, certainly you you feel like you need to do that more than more than anyone. What I need to take, a leaf, I need to take out a leaf out of your book, Keks, is the way I love how you've just gone for it, and it's almost like would it be fair that you've tried to put yourself in kind of uncomfortable uh situations almost? It's like you've you've you've jumped into the uncomfortable, and that feels like that's working for you. And I I think myself speaking here, and probably a lot of golfers out there, there is that tendency to just hide behind and like stay in that comfort zone. So, you know, for me, I feel like okay, I don't really want to go into a medal because I might embarrass myself and also I don't want to wreck my handicap, or I might not put a card in today because I haven't been hitting it that well, all of that. Whereas your approach seems to be just no, I'm just gonna jump in here, I'm gonna get my hands dirty, I'm gonna be vulnerable for as long as that takes, and then I'm gonna grow from there. Is that is that about right?

SPEAKER_02 51:11

Would you say a hundred percent because like I mean what for the handicap, I know that I have to play with someone I've never played with before for my medals, never played with them. Like, I I think I could be uh much lower handicap if I did general plays. But I just I l I like just being nervous having that bit of pressure on me and I then I'm more so proud of that handicap. Whereas I see people on social media and they've started around the same time as me, and they're like a 14 handicap, and I'm like, I'm in two I'm always in two minds. I'm like, well, they're probably doing a lot of general plays, which would be fine. And number two what was my number two on oh god, don't know where number two I don't know where number two was.

SPEAKER_00 52:02

They're maybe not getting the same metal experience or competition experience.

SPEAKER_02 52:06

Oh yeah, it's like people like like when it comes to events I won't get nervous for golf anymore. So if I just keep if anyone who's playing golf, if you just keep making yourself uncomfortable, the more bigger uncomfortable situations will just be like normal and not I don't know. I just always think it's more beneficial to the harder things that makes you feel more accomplished when you've finished it.

SPEAKER_01 52:29

Yeah, it's definitely it's kind of like I've been here before in this uncomfortable situation.

SPEAKER_04 52:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:35

This feels normal. Whereas like sometimes I think the game of golf, you will always find these uncomfortable moments. But what we've talked about is like if you stretch yourself enough when you're playing in these medals, like with someone you don't know, it's like the score's there for everybody to see, whereas the general play, nobody's really keeping up with your or may they might be with yourself, but like nobody's really keeping up with your general play as much on a medal. It's like that is go time, like to like play your best golf. So you're like putting yourself in the best situation to do it.

SPEAKER_00 53:11

Yeah, I think that um taking that leap of faith that you've taken cakes and just putting yourself out there, putting yourself forward into these competitions, it sounds like you've kind of discovered, like, lo and behold, everyone else is just as scared of golf as I am a lot of the time, or like everyone else feels just as vulnerable about playing with strangers as I do, or or else the other point is no one really cares that much about what's going on with your score, they're much more worried about their own score, and that's that's a fact. Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_02 53:45

I think I think one thing like golf is just like you're always gonna fail. Like the amount of times you fail in golf, it's like so it's like you almost have to like stop hiding in your car before going to the range, you have to like stop hiding from like failure. So I remember my first co my first lesson on the course with my coach, he said like one of my main issues is I have a fear of failure when I go to hit the ball. So it's like once I had that in my head, if you are aware that you have a fear of failure, it's like if you joke if you don't try, you're gonna fail anyway. So it's like I don't know, I feel golf has this way of of the good parts feels so so good when you've had so many failures through it. And if you keep hiding from those failures, you're never gonna like get through that barrier.

SPEAKER_00 54:42

Huge thanks to Keith for joining us. I think one of the reasons her story resonates is because so many golfers need a bit of stealth in it. I know I certainly do the nerves, the self-doubt, the fear of failure, the feeling that everyone else has it figured out while you're still trying to find your way. The reality is that so many of us golfers are all fighting those same battles. So if you enjoyed this episode, we'd love it if you follow the podcast and leave us a rating or review wherever you're listening. It genuinely helps more golfers discover the show and become part of this community we are building here. And if there's someone at your club who's currently struggling with confidence, worried about entering competitions, or wondering if they're good enough to get involved at all, then why not send them this episode? There's a good chance they'll recognize some of their own journey in Kick's story. So next week, Kick's returns for part two as we dive into Breaking Mighty, the mental lessons she's learned along the way, and the goals she's now chasing in her own game. So we'll see you next time on How Low Can You Go.