The Biggest Mistake Golfers Make? They Only Prepare for Plan A | Mark Immelman (Part 2)

🏌️ Most golfers only prepare for Plan A. The best golfers are ready for Plan B… and Plan C.

Most golfers spend all their practice preparing for the perfect round.

But what happens when Plan A disappears?

In Part Two of our conversation with renowned broadcaster, coach and author Mark Immelman, Mark shares a brilliant lesson from Sir Nick Faldo that might completely change the way you think about scoring. We explore what has become a recurring theme on How Low Can You Go - why preparing for your C-game might be more important than your A-game.

We also discuss the habits that separate the world’s best golfers from everyone else, and why better processes—not better scores—are the key to playing consistently better golf.

We also share exclusive on-course moments from our day with Mark on Scotland’s Golf Coast, including a short-game lesson with Dave, and a brilliant story involving legendary coach Butch Harmon.

If you’re serious about lowering your scores, this is an episode you’ll come back to time and time again.

⛳ In this episode

• The Sir Nick Faldo lesson every golfer needs to hear - Why you must have a plan for you B-game and your C-game if your A-game doesn’t show up

• The habits that separate elite golfers from the rest of us

• Why smart decisions beat heroic golf shots almost every time

• How focusing on process can ultimately lead to better outcomes

• Exclusive on-course coaching from Mark at North Berwick

• A fantastic ‘pearl’ of golf wisdom from Butch Harmon

📚 Learn more from Mark Immelman

If you enjoyed this conversation, we highly recommend exploring more of Mark’s work.

🌐 Website
https://markimmelman.com

🎙️ Podcast
On the Mark Podcast

📖 Book
Lessons from the Best: Holistic Insights, Tips, and Tricks to Improve Your Golf Game

Mark has spent decades interviewing and learning from many of the greatest players, coaches and minds in golf, and his podcast and book are packed with practical wisdom for golfers of every level.

🎙️ ABOUT THE SHOW

How Low Can You Go explores how amateur golfers can improve their game, lower their scores, and actually understand what moves the needle — without wasting time on the wrong things.

🎧 Listen now and start turning bad rounds into better golf.

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Karl has worked with multiple Major winners, including 2026 Open Champion Ryan Fox. World-class coaching, great golf, in a premium setting in late October ‘26. Spaces will be limited.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_04 1:48

They don't have a plan B or a plan C or a Plan D. All they've prepared for is Plan A. And when plan A is not working out, then they cooked.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

Welcome back to Hilo Can You Go, the Golf Improvement Podcast, Born in Scotland. This is part two of our conversation with Mark Emmelman. Last week we spoke about why golf is really a game of recovery, why your putts should fall into the hole like a drunk sailor. The spiritual side of golf improvement and how getting good at shot number three might just be the fastest way to lower your handicap. So this week, Mark shared one valuable lesson from Sir Nick Faldo that every club golfer and every professional golfer probably needs to hear. It's also becoming a recurring theme here on How Low Can You Go. Why your C game might actually be more important than your A game. So this is part two with Mark Emmelman. This is How Low Can You Go.

SPEAKER_04 3:40

How low can you go? I'm gonna hit you with Sir Nick Felder, who is I'm thankful to call a friend, a former colleague with CBS. And I'll never forget, we were on a show one day, and I was in the tower with him, it was a golf channel show, and he's sitting over there at the main desk, and I'm here at this my position, and I see this young man hit a shot, and Nick leans back in the chair like us and waves his arms, going, like, what the hell? And I I laugh because Sir Nick's animated. And so we go to commercial, we go to break, and he takes his headset off like this, and he puts it on the country, and then now he's talking to me, and I'm like 20 feet away, right? And I'm like, I can't hear you. And he goes, they don't have a plan B or a plan C or a plan D. All they've prepared for is plan A. And when plan A is not working out, then they cooked. Yeah. He goes, This guy over here was not prepared for stuff going bad, and now he's making stupid decisions. Right? Which was like the my emotions were like, holy cow, this guy is a sir. He's in the Hall of Fame, six-time major champion, won the Masters in the Open three times apiece. And he's saying he prepares for his B and C game. So afterwards at dinner, I'm like, are you for real about this B and C thing? And he goes, Yeah. He goes, I was prepared because he even said to me, He goes, I didn't think I was good enough, so I prepared for every eventuality. And if my A game wasn't there, I had a plan for my B game. And if it wasn't there, I had a plan for my C game. Incidentally, he describes one of the great shots I've seen in all time, of all time, was the two iron he hit on the 13th hole at the Masters when he had the duel against Greg Norman. Right. So I asked him about it on my show, but I'd asked him about it before. Yeah. And so he said that week, now this is an illustration of the B and C and D situations. He said, on the week, for the week, I'd put a five wood in my bag to hit the ball a little higher into those greens. And he said, there, that lion's 13, the ball's way above the feet, and it was a five. I say to Fanny, what's the number? She goes, 225 cover. He goes, that's a perfect five wood. And he said, I put the five wood down by the ball, and it looked like the ball was going to go over my shoulder in the Azaleas. And then he goes, I step out and I put the five wood down there, and there was no chance this thing was not going anywhere but into the Azaleas.

SPEAKER_03 6:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:15

So he's like, okay, well, the five wood's not working clearly. Uh so then when he said, so I said to Fanny, what about the layup? She gave the number and he's like, Well, um, Greg and I are kind of tied, I've got to, you know, put the foot down, say, pulls out the two iron, and he said the two iron just sat perfectly. And the face looked straight. And he pulled off this immaculate long iron, ended up winning. So that's sort of the background. But every shot he hit, he would ask Fanny two questions. What's the yardage? And then he would say, What do we want? And what can I do? So he said, I'd look at the flag and go, I want to hit it there, but right now off this lyre with that wind and this club selection, can I hit it there? No. And then he goes, I'd move what I want and what do I do to a place where those two intersected. And sometimes that may be 25 feet right of the flag, and sometimes it might be 40 feet left of the flag. But he was always moving his targets to what he could do. Essentially, his B and C plans. Yeah. Because the A plans are at the flag all the time, right?

SPEAKER_00 7:23

Yeah. And and to kind of call back from earlier on in this conversation, Mark, and I don't think you're somebody who is discrediting all the strokes-gained work that's gone on. No. Not at all. However, I think the point that is kind of recurring throughout this is that golf is a game of emotion. It's a game of gut feel as much as it is a game of mathematics as well. And so to that point, maybe mathematically, that five would, or whatever, in a situation that by logic would be the right thing to do here. However, I'm standing there and I'm going, I'm not feeling this one bit.

SPEAKER_04 8:08

Exactly. Yes. Exactly right. Yeah. Exactly right. Like strokes gained will tell you, hit the driver. Okay? Because yes, the closer you get to the target, uh, the better it is for the next shot. But if you're standing there with a driver in your hand and all you see is like bunker and water, and there's no chance in God's green earth you're gonna hit the fairway. Hitting the driver is a fool's errand. You may get lucky and headed down the fairway, or you also may not. Remember? Yeah. I'm glad you said that. I'm glad you said that. Here's another anecdote. Gosh, I'm on a roll now. Thankful to know Gary player. And Jack Nicholas. And Gary, a young man in South Africa's small, he's a small man. He's a little smaller than me, and I'm not that big. And he was really good, and he got sponsored to come and play on the PGA tour, where it was Jack Nicholas and Arnold Palmer's place. And he said he got over here in the first event, he looks at these two guys and they just seem like titans. They are just massive men who hit seven irons where he would hit five iron and stuff like this. And he goes, Lo and behold, he gets paired with Jack one day. And on the first hole, Jack, he'd never played with Nicholas. First hole, Jack gets up with driver and hits one fades it but hits it left in the woods, makes double burgee. He said, for the rest of the round, Jack didn't hit driver once. Okay? So they go into dinner for lunch, they're going for lunch, not together. And he summons up the courage to, and then Jack walks out and goes to the range. And I'm paraphrasing, so if I get this somewhat wrong, it's just poetic license. And he summons the courage to go to Jack and say he goes, Jack, you hit driver on one and you didn't hit it again. Why? And Nicholas's response was, and hit that shot again? No. Because Nicholas ended up shooting under par, but he got by something that he wasn't completely convinced in.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

And that's kind of just like rounding it up, knowing what your C game is, that you know that his driver wasn't on that day and going back to his A game.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

Honestly, yeah, Chris, we are getting that like so many times on this podcast with phenomenal people who we respect greatly, is about this C game stuff, is like raise the level of your C game and then your your A game will probably increase as a result. It's like kind of building on a better foundation. If your C game's not gonna get as bad as it once did, then that will have a knock-on effect on the rest. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:48

When I was a college coach and I was recruiting, I I wanted to see people playing badly. See how they dealt with it emotionally, if they lost their temper and acted the fool, and if they could make a you know, lemonade out of lemons kind of deal. I want to say this to you, Dave. I'm gonna give you, in the interest now of not poo-pooed mathematics, but I w I wanna I want to show you how easy it is for you to break 80. Yes, please do. Give you a scenario. All I need for you to do is hit six greens in regulation. On those six greens, I need you to make six parts. So you're gonna hit the green and two-part. Then I need you to hit the miss the next six screens, but get those up and down. You're gonna make six up and downs. Then I want you to miss the final six greens in regulation and chip and two-putt those. Or hit a bunker shot and two-part those. If you do that, you're gonna shoot six overpower. Have you listened to me though?

SPEAKER_00 11:51

It almost sounds too easy, Mark.

SPEAKER_04 11:52

Yeah. Okay, but but but this is the thing, right? So if I give you that mandate, like I like another story, if there's some bogey golfer here who hasn't broken 90, I'll say to them, if you get on every green in three strokes and you two-putt every one, you're gonna shoot 90. Because 18 fives is 90. Yeah. And the reality is you might hit the ball in a power three in one and two-putt, and all of a sudden that's 88. Okay. But you see how now if I say to you, you've got three to get on that green down there, and then you got a two-putt, maybe you won't stand there and wail on the driver and you know, get to the green in five.

SPEAKER_00 12:29

In my defense, Mark, I uh you talked about your daughter uh previously, where you know, does she need to play more, does she need to practice more? And you're like, Well, the answer could be both, you know, it could be you need to work on certain skills. And like, Chris, I was aware that my t-shots, my driving, needs to come up a level if I want to get to a single-figure standard golfer. And so I spent a lot of time over the winter really working on driver, driver, driver, really focusing on trying to hit the middle of the club face, trying to own a shape to borrow words from Scott Fawcett. Yeah, he that's what he said to me. He said, I want you, Dave, to own a shape with driver. I don't care which one it is, own a shape with driver, which I think is good advice. Um and so, yeah, I feel like that skill has improved and has put me into a position where I could knock on the door of breaking 80. And the other day, Chris, whenever Chris shot his 67, like I by by my le my level is pretty good. I had eight pars and a birdie. And so if somebody says that to me before the round, I'm thinking, right, here we go. This is the day I'm gonna do this. But the thing is, Mark, for one reason or another, I always end up with a few triples thrown in there or a few silly doubles. And I don't know, it's I I sometimes can't put my finger on it because it used to be I would just be wild with the driver and I'd be like, okay, that's out of bounds, that's the end of that. But I think as that has improved, it's almost shining a spotlight on other areas of the game, like my decision making, for example, and I'll suddenly do something really silly from a position where a bogey's good enough on this hole. You know, so a bogey's good enough. So at my level, just lay up from that slightly out-of-position drive that you're in. You know, don't try and do something heroic. I think there's a lot of those types of things going on for me at the moment.

SPEAKER_04 14:24

I would agree. Uh, and and I would revert to the get good at shot number three thing. Um, I'll never forget the moment because I didn't have coaching when I was playing golf as a kid, and I got good because I was an athlete, I guess. Um and I was a voracious reader, and my dad bought me VHS cassette tapes by Dr. John Jacobs. Love that man. And so I sort of learned stuff and then I'd read about a lot of things. And then when I'd play, he'd be the dad who was like, Why did you why'd you hit that shot? And I would say, Well, I gotta make a par. And he s would say back, Well, why don't you just hit it back in the fairway and hit a wedge onto the green? And I'm like, I I would couple together some feeble answer. But the reality was deep down, I didn't trust myself with a wedge from a hundred yards to get the ball into a place where I could make a putt. And then one day by pure accident, I'll never forget the hole, I can't tell you how old I was, but I was out of position off the T. All I had was a shot to wedge it back out. And I put it in the fairway and I wedged it to like 15 feet and made it. And it's like, oh my gosh. There are more than one, there is more than one way to make a four. Because if you make 18 fours, you're gonna shoot 72. If you make 18 fives, you're gonna shoot a 90. Okay. So it's it's it's when you finally come to grips with the fact that you don't have to hit the ball on and around the green to make four. That's when you're on your way.

unknown 15:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:58

And then certain situations like like I don't know who it was. Might have been Carl, probably. Um he said you no, it wasn't. It was a guy called um uh Evan. He hosts the Power Train podcast. Okay, yeah. He talked about gambling equity. He goes, now if if you are p if you're playing blackjack volume six, you kind of know which how many decks of cards are in the shoe. And you have an idea of like, okay, well, I cannot be hitting on 16 if the dealer is sitting on this. So you make the smart decision because you want to win the money. But most golfers aren't following those rules. They're hitting on 16 every freaking single time. Then they wonder why they're making sixes and sevens and stuff like that, you know.

SPEAKER_00 16:52

And as you would say, in that situation Chris, the house always wins in that situation.

SPEAKER_03 16:56

That's true. Yeah, it's true.

SPEAKER_00 17:07

We'll take a very quick break there. One thing that really, really stood out to us after spending time with Mark was that every lesson seems to come back to simple ideas like making smarter decisions, not taking on miracle shots, not chasing perfection, just smarter golf. Earlier that day at North Perwick, I had the privilege of getting a few lessons live on course with Mark. He spent a few minutes helping me out around the greens. Here's just a little glimpse of that.

SPEAKER_04 17:50

So here we have Dave. And Dave's on a downhill live in a lynx golf course. And he's being told to get his weight to the left and to get his hands in front of the golf. Now, does he look athletic at all? Don't move, Dave. Stay where you work. What are the chances of him landing the club behind a golf ball with his eye line that far in front of him? I know he's probably heard certain golf instructors talking about steepening the angle of attack, but he's gonna have to back up to hit this thing properly. So, how about this, Dave? Narrowing your stance a little bit. I get the ball in the middle of your stance. Now just lean a little bit. Don't you feel more imbalanced there?

SPEAKER_01 18:32

That's still not in the middle of a stance. There we go.

SPEAKER_04 18:36

Rudder. Okay, I feel way from. Yes, now you're a tall man. So I wonder why he's holding the club so low down the shaft. I mean, what's the chances of him getting the club under the ball? If he holds it that short, there's every likelihood he's gonna top the thing off that severely downsloping line. So now he's balanced, he's wet sliding. The sternum is sufficiently left at the ball, and the club's long enough to get underneath it, we should be in good working order. Okay. Go, go. That's a good show. I would you know what the lesson behind the lesson is? Understand what you're doing. Don't just follow blindly. Balance, athleticism, all these things are still part of the golf swing. Be careful of overdoing. Like Harvey Pennock said, right? If someone tells you to take an aspirin, don't take the entire bottle.

SPEAKER_01 19:41

I definitely think that's something um where it was, I think it was Alex Hong that said it's like bogey avoidance, or like if you say if I find myself at a position just to kind of repeat what you've said, so if I find myself at a position, I say this to not just Dave, but I say this to every golfer I play with when they try and get it through the little gap that Sevi Balesteros made when it went through. I'm like, just he can do that. You can't do that. Just and I'm not saying be boring with your goal, it's just like be realistic that have you ever hooked a ball around like a big tree like that before and it went the distance that you wanted. Do you know when you hook it like that, you'll potentially like lose a little bit of distance and it'll roll out more? So your chance of hitting like these are all the things that I'm thinking of when I'm like, get that back in the fairway and just make a ball gate worse, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 20:37

It does, it really does. It reminds me of you know, I've had various caddies on my show, and I appreciate the caddy because I've done it a little bit. And it's a thankless task, and you are the biggest motivator in the world, right? Yeah. If you if anyone's catting for anyone and your livelihood is dependent on how they play, all of a sudden you become the best motivator. So I'll say to people, you need to speak to yourself like you would speak to someone you're caddying for. That's that's the starter, right? Because the caddy will be like, you got this good tempo, good rhythm. They're always giving you this of affirmation, affirmative kind of phrases. But the caddy, if you listen, and I get to listen when I'm on the golf course, because I do my best work as an on-course announcer when I don't have to say anything. And they've got the parab mic on a caddy and a player interaction. That's where the goal is. And you'll hear them going back and forth with numbers, and the caddy will bring it, bring the sensitive play, the sensible play, and the player will be like, well, I can do this, and the caddy will bring him back, and there's this sort of back and forth thing. But then more often than not, you'll hear the caddy go and there's a front right flag, and the caddy knows that his boy's not hitting the ball that flush right now. He'll be like, at the TV tower. Take it at the inside edge of the TV tower. Now, for folks who don't arena, TV towers are normally straight over the back of the middle of the green. Okay. So this caddy's saying, just hit the thing in the middle of the green for me. Let's let the putter be a superstar. Ted Scott, who I love. I mean, he's like a dear friend to me. One time he said something on my hole, on my air, I had Scotty Scheffler. And Scotty had hit a rare shot way out of position, and he's got this lyre where he looks like a dog going to the bathroom, and his right foot's way above his left, left, left foot, balls in the rough over a bunker, green tilts it away from him, just disaster. And Ted's final words to Scotty were let your putter be your superstar. No. Saying to Scotty, go, get me 20 feet or so. Yeah. You know the strange thing? He hit it to about 20 feet and made the power attempt. Instead of going for the hero shot and turning that position into a double instead of a bogey or better.

SPEAKER_00 22:52

Yeah. And this might be a strange thing to ask someone like yourself, Mark, as a PGA announcer, someone who's inside the ropes. But do you feel like the TV coverage of these great golf events has almost distorted what club golfers like Chris and I uh are thinking about when we're out in the golf course. We're watching Phil Mickelson do something miraculous and we're thinking, right, I should probably try that from here.

SPEAKER_04 23:21

100%. Um we are showing the leaders out of a field of 156 players or 120 players, and you sing five or six or seven of them. And these guys are the seven guys who are on top of their game for the week. And they're the best of the best. You're not seeing the guys that are sweating to make the cut and that sort of deal. Um a PGA tour player will tell you I've asked all of them. I'm like, what is more nerve wracking? A put to me. Make the cut on a Friday afternoon or a puck to win on Sunday, and they'll tell you Friday. Right, well. Because when you when you're sweating the cut, you're not playing your best. Yeah. When you're in contention with a chance to win, you're playing your best. So, yes, the golfers, the fans' view of what the pro game represents is a bit distorted by what you see on Saturdays and Sunday afternoons.

SPEAKER_00 24:14

Before we jump back into the interview, while we were out on the course at North Berwick, Mark told us this brilliant story about some advice he received from Butch Harmon. He describes these little snippets as pearls that were passed down to Butch and his brothers from their legendary father, Claude Harmon. Take a listen to this.

SPEAKER_04 24:39

I want you to remember that golf is always about context. And I heard the coolest story from Butch Harmon. It's a lesson he learned from his father, Claude, Master Champion, fantastic instructor. And Claude called them his pearls. And he'd say to his boys, listen up, I'm giving you pearls. And one of the stories, one of the pearls he shared with Butch, and I paraphrase, is he said to him young Butchy, and Butch was playing tournament golf, he said, Butchie, if you're on the 18th T at Pebble Beach and you have a one-stroke lead, if the toe overtakes the heel on your T shot, you lose. If the heel leads the toe through contact, you probably win. Now that sounds mundane, but the reality is there's wisdom in that. Simple images. If the toe overtakes the heel, the ball's going left. If the heel leads the toe, the ball's not going left, it's going right. So Claude's Pearl was brilliant for a young butch, and it's brilliant for you too. Keep context in your endeavors and keep golf simple as you can.

SPEAKER_01 25:44

And you you're obviously talking about the like the golfers at the top of their game and say like they've had a couple weeks where they're playing really well and they're coming into this thinking, I've been playing well, I could I could do this, my game's on point, I'm striking it really well. For someone that has just reached their all-time best, and I do feel like I'm playing good golf. How in the best way would I maintain this form and not get too carried away? Because I'm always trying.

SPEAKER_00 26:14

How do we bottle this up?

SPEAKER_01 26:16

Bottle it and keep it and sell it.

SPEAKER_04 26:18

Chris, if if I had the answer for this, you would not be talking to me right now. I'd be retired somewhere on a beach. No. But here's my take. First off, you need to understand that there is a circle of life in golf. And it goes good golf, indifferent golf, bad golf, indifferent golf, good golf. And that circle is always turning. And when you get to indifferent, instead of panicking, and the panic or the like try something new or whatever, which takes you to bad golf or make stupid decisions, insert whatever you want when you're in indifferent. Instead of just doing like Scotty Scheffler, do the same thing, uh, do your fundamentals, that'll help you back to good golf. Most people start panicking and they help themselves to bad golf. And then when they're in the bad area of it, which happens with everybody, then it's like five bell alarm fire, five alarm bell fire. And then they're panicking and the slump continues. Instead of going, Well, I'm in my bad stage, when I was doing the good stuff, I was doing this, and that helps you get back on track. So that's the first thing I would say. And then the next thing I would say to you is there's more than one way to shoot 72. You don't have to be perfect all the time. So uh and don't brew the grind. You know, people look, I I I want everyone I've taught to to go out there and hit the ball flush all the time and hit the ball straight and do everything right. But by definition, it's impossible because the game we play is an imperfect game. Play it on play it on a golf course where the designer is designing visual intimidation for you and challenging every skill you have. Right? Yes. But we're winning this perfect scenario all the time. So you can go a good golfer you are, you can go and shoot 72, barely hitting the ball solid the whole day, but making smart decisions.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:25

Or you can go and shoot 72, you know, making dumb decisions because you hidden the ball so well. That's the one thing that's that's where Rory to me, because I used to characterize him like this whenever I call Jordan Speith, whatever the score he shot is the l uh is the lowest score he could have shot. Yeah. Is that uncanny ability? For a while there, Rory, whatever he signed for, was the highest score he was going to shoot on the day because some of and I'll tell and we talk about this. And it's because some of the decisions were just asinine. And then when he decided to play the game more like Scotty Scheffler, all of a sudden he's won two masters in a row. And all of a sudden he doesn't have to hit the ball perfect. This last Masters in 2026, he hit the thing terribly. Yeah, chipped and putted his way to a second green jacket. Yeah, yeah. So don't rue the don't rue the grind, man. The grind is part of it. But remember the circle of life. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:22

And I love that circle of life. And also as a Northern Irish man who's always rooting for Rory, I kind of like the roller coaster ride that you get with Rory, you know.

SPEAKER_04 29:33

I thought I thought you sounded, you didn't really sound like a Scotsman.

SPEAKER_00 29:35

Now I get from Belfast, yeah, originally, but in uh in Edinburgh with with all these these Scotsmen in the home of golf.

SPEAKER_04 29:45

We love it. I'll s I'll say to I'll say this to you, Dave. Rory is my second favorite golfer to watch in the world, and that's ahead of my brother and behind my daughter. Okay. And there's been so many times, because I get to call him a lot.

SPEAKER_03 29:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:59

And watching him play yeah, Marxism, is biblical. It's it's like I have this moment where I'm like, holy cow, can one person hit the ball that well? It's just impossible to me. Yeah. And it's like the game just oozes out of him and it comes so freaking easy. Yeah. And then I'll watch him just hitting these mammoth drives and then missing the green with a wedge. And I want to go, I want to go and shake him and go, what the hell are you doing? And so I've lived and died many situations where I've seen him just completely blow a situation because of maybe an over-exuberant type play. Yes. And that's why run that's why young Rory to me would win majors by seven, eight, nine strokes, because he was on and he just run like a thoroughbred.

SPEAKER_03 30:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:42

But the truth is that thoroughbred also has to run through the dust and the grime of the start. And the jockey on its back is trying to find it clear air. So you know, when there's getting bumped around, Rory would try and punch his way out there with golf shots. Like, no, just kind of just hang around. You're that good that after 72 holes, you're gonna be near the lead.

SPEAKER_01 31:03

Yeah. No, I I like that a lot because like we watched uh the Masters there, and I said I was messaging Dave. Obviously, I love we all love Rory over here. I think the whole golf world does. And you do when these when these shots are getting hit. Like I I remember the first Masters that he won. I'm like knee sliding in my living room with my hands in my head, just like, please, please help, like help yourself here, mate. Um one thing I had um was just after interviewing all the best players in the world, what's one thing they all do that club golfers don't, other than being like unbelievable players? But like, what do you like what do you see as that kind of like gap, like where they're not making space?

SPEAKER_00 31:48

Anything that we can learn from these superhuman golfers as club golfers.

SPEAKER_04 31:52

Sadly, it's not very sexy. Okay. Because everyone's waiting for this like ethereal advice. I would say they're all sticklers for what they call the process. It's their routine. They're like Justin Rose has a tape in terms of what he does, not just in practice, but before practice, after play. He he's he's almost like on a robot in what he's doing. So it's it's it's the routines that they have in place that they never deviate from. Okay, food, hydration, um, practice. Some of them are on ball counts practicing, uh, how they do pre-tournaments. They they've all figured out what they need to do for to bring out their best. So so routines is the big deal. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 32:39

And when you say routines as well, it doesn't mean that it becomes this kind of mindless thing where it's like I've got to do this, walk this way over to this and do this, like I've got to mimic what I did a moment ago. It's more, as you say, it's it's kind of process, it's it's I'm identifying the shot, I'm feeling the shot, I'm seeing the shot, and then I'm playing the shot. You know, I think sometimes people misunderstand what is meant by routine. I that that's that's my take, anyway, is people sort of go, oh, look at Tiger Woods back in the day, and you could time it to like a nanosecond or something like that. And that's fine, maybe, but I feel like I I prefer what Carl Morris often says is is is pre-shot creation rather than necessarily routine. Because routine sounds something that like almost like brushing your teeth, it almost feels a bit mindless. Whereas I think I think the routine you're talking about is very mindful, right?

SPEAKER_04 33:32

Yes, absolutely. But before the shot, the golfer is the elite golfer is mindful of every scenario. Then they are decisive as to what they decide and go with. Very few caddies have the mandate to pull them out of their launching sequence. For a caddy, if if there's a wind switch and the caddy pulls the guy who's about to pull the trigger out, you've got to have some guts about you. Um and then when they hit the ball, they hit it with freedom. So they go from cerebral and mindful to free flowing. And then they uh analyze and then they walk and they go and do it on the next one. Now they're not always gonna be free flowing because of nerves and stuff like that, but there's the attempt to you never hear a caddy go, oh well, don't forget to flex your wrist at the top of your swing. The caddy's going the caddy's going to be positive. Yeah, keep it smooth. You know, it's it's it's these it they they go from mental to emotional and to athlete within.

SPEAKER_00 34:39

Yeah. I've got I'm just realizing thank you so much, Mark. I've got uh a family suddenly returning at the door. Just give me one second, I'm just gonna shift.

SPEAKER_01 34:51

Oh, I think he's muted himself.

SPEAKER_03 34:54

Um I think the family the family typical Irish, typical Irish, but no sorry, I don't want to I know he's obviously moving and we're obviously very uh mindful of your time.

SPEAKER_01 35:15

Um yeah, no, I think just to kind of a question, obviously Dave said for his um for getting from that mid-handicap, or just for I'm sitting at two just now trying to get to scratch. Is there anything that's different to what you would say to Dave? Because obviously I don't need to be hitting the five like greetings and regular six screens and regular like what would you give me as a a tip?

SPEAKER_04 35:41

I would say um, and it's gonna sound a bit like Scott Fawcett, have something you can go to, you know, have have a reliable shot, develop a reliable shot. Yeah. And and and I would say I would say to you, stop thinking about it as if it's like in strokes. You gaining a quarter of a stroke here and you're gaining a tenth of a stroke there. It's just little bits. Because oftentimes when we think about it in strokes, we almost handcuff ourselves because by definition, the lower the score is, the fewer mistakes you need to make. So assess every shot and where you are, play it like you're gambling. Look at the shot and go, okay, I've got an eight out of ten chance of pulling this off, go. But if you've got a two in ten chance, hit the next best shot to make the following shot easier. Does that make sense to you?

SPEAKER_01 36:32

Yeah, no, that definitely. Definitely. Um no, that's that's perfect. Um thank you. I don't know if Dave's sorry, you're can't hear you, Dave.

SPEAKER_04 36:44

Sorry. You should you should have taken care of the Irishman better when you went over there the first time.

SPEAKER_01 36:51

I don't I don't know, please. I think his microphone's um not working. But um for yeah, sorry, thank you so much obviously for coming on. That's it's hard to it's my pleasure. Um behind the C Speed. Yeah, no, sorry. So thanks so much for coming on. Can you tell everybody where they can find you with all of your stuff?

SPEAKER_04 37:17

Well, the easiest would be there's a website, markimmelman.com, which is just my name. Um, but I'm very proud of a new venture we got on the go because I've got the on the Mark podcast, obviously. But um the YouTube channels, you can search for Mark Immelman, and there's a new channel we're developing called Marcology. M-A-R-K-O-L-O-G-Y. And that's pure game improvement stuff. Okay. And so go search and subscribe there, search for Marcology uh golf or on the Mark Golf on YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

SPEAKER_01 37:50

Perfect. No, thank you so much. It's honestly been a pleasure and an honor. Um you've you finally got Dave muted. Well done. No, honestly, I appreciate it so much. The the lessons and the stories, as you've told them, have given me goosebumps and uh made me smile um ear to ear. It's been great to have you on.

SPEAKER_04 38:13

Well, let's do this. I appreciate what you guys are doing. When I'm over there in Scotland, let's get together. Yes. And let's let's let's do like real Scottish golfers do, where after my work or whatever, we go and have a pint or two and talk a few golf stories. Is that a deal? That's a deal to me.

SPEAKER_01 38:28

I'll uh we'll definitely take you up on that. Right. God bless you. Thanks so much. Cheers. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 38:40

Now, if you're wondering why I suddenly disappeared at the end there, my microphone decided it had had enough. But thankfully, Mark Emmelman could not have been more of a gent, he couldn't have been more relaxed about it, in all honesty. While Chris and I were scrambling around trying to work out what had happened, he was carrying on cracking the jokes and laughing at us while patiently waiting for us to get things sorted and wrapped up. So I think that honestly just sums the man up perfectly. Someone who spent decades around the very best players. He's incredibly generous with his time, a real sport when things went wrong, and exactly the same person off camera as he is behind the microphone. So, Mark, thank you so much. It really was a privilege, and we look forward to many more great conversations in future. If you're enjoying these shows, these conversations, we'd love it if you would share this episode with another golfer who, like us, just wants to get better at this game. Episodes like this are exactly why Chris and I started How Low Can You Go. Every week we get a chance to learn from some of the best. And then we bring those lessons back to everyday golfers like us who are simply trying to shoot lower scores and enjoy the game a little bit more. So make sure you're following the podcast wherever you listen and subscribe so you never miss an episode. And if you've got a spare 30 seconds, if you wouldn't mind leaving us a rating or review, it really helps other golfers discover the show. So from Chris and me, thank you very much as ever for listening, and we'll see you next time on How Low Can You Go.

SPEAKER_02 40:40

How low can you go?