Cornhole Is Going to the Olympics — and Paying Six-Figure Salaries | Athena Delgado, ACL

Cornhole started as a backyard game people played at tailgates. Today it's on ESPN, it's paying six-figure salaries, and it's pushing for the Olympics. Athena Delgado, National Director of Player Engagement for the American Cornhole League, joins Luke to explain how that happened — and why cornhole and tailgating will be inseparable for generations to come.

Luke and Athena have history — they judged a cornhole trick shot competition on ESPN's The Ocho, then teamed up for the Snoop Dogg Arizona Bowl tailgating challenge in Tucson. In this episode they break down the full rise of the ACL, what professional cornhole actually looks like, how to get involved at any level, and why 80% of tailgaters name cornhole as their favorite game.

What we cover: How cornhole became a professional sport on ESPN · The Olympic push and what it means for the game · ACL pro player salaries and the competitive circuit · The tailgating challenge competition at the Arizona Bowl · How to join the ACL and start competing · The cornhole app and where to find tournaments

Transcript

Intro

Luke 0:00

Welcome back to the Tailgate Connect podcast. I'm your host, Luke Lord with Tailgating Challenge. I love all things tailgating. In today's episode, we're gonna talk about the gabe that tailgators have loved for years: Cornhole. We have Athena Delgado with us today from the American Cornhole League, who is the director of engagement worldwide for the American Cornhole League that has a lot of amazing things to share about Cornhole and Tailgating. Stay tuned for more.

Music 0:46

Let's have a ball across the states from college to NFL. Tailgate Connect's got a story to tell.

Luke 0:58

All right, welcome back to the Tailgate Connect podcast. We have our very special guest with us this evening, Athena Delgado, the director of player engagement with the American Cornhole League. Athena, how are you doing?

Athena 1:12

I am doing phenomenal. So excited to be here. I feel like we just saw each other not that long ago.

Luke 1:19

For sure. And for those that don't know, like Athena and I met originally on the set of an ESPN show with a cornhole trick shot competition in Rock Hill, South Carolina, where we got to uh have as I say the easy job, right? Of grading some of these uh ACL pros out there doing some really fun trick shots.

Athena 1:41

Yes. Oh my gosh, it was such a blast. And you know, we were on the Ocho and there was so much going on. Everyone's moving things everywhere, and we're just sitting there enjoying it. I mean, we probably did have the easier job, especially next to Jake. He had a talk and do a whole thing, and we're just there like we've got our numbers, we're good to go.

Luke 1:59

I still I still got my numbers around the house somewhere. I should have pulled them out for our episode today. But no, that was that was great getting getting to meet you then. And then we most recently got together in Tucson, Arizona for the Snoop Dogg Arizona Bowl game. We did some uh cornhole and some tailgating challenges out there. And so again, it feels like it was yesterday, but now it's been been a few months now.

Athena 2:20

Oh my gosh, yes. And it was such a blast. We had so much fun, even just like the planning and preparing, and what was so good is on the cornhole side, everything was just like, we know what we're doing. And then on the tailgating side, you're like, I know what I'm doing, and just combining it, it was a blast. Mind you, that last second crazy situation that had happened where you had a dub a champion within seconds. And I was like, oh no.

Everyone had a blast — what made it work

Luke 2:45

Yeah, I like the way you think that I had mine under control because like I was like, uh, I never done one like this before. That was all a dream I had, and we put it together out there. And so what a what Athena is leaning into is that we did a uh teal gating challenge competition uh in tandem with some uh cornhole play out there. And one of the things we were doing, we were setting up, we have a competitor set up a tent, some Kajaro chairs, they had to shotgun a non-alcoholic beverage out of a cooler and then finish uh making a game on a game called making a shot on a game called Ramps. And so at the very end, it came down to lit literally a photo finish between like a the long-standing like leader of the of the pack during the day, and then somebody came at the last second and they and they won by just a couple of seconds, and there was some controversy if they actually did the shot correctly. So we had to go back and look at the camera at a few different angles to verify that, yes, in fact, we did have a have a new winner out there, but everything was real smooth until until the end where I was like, oh my gosh, we're gonna have fisti-cuffs at the tailgate. There were none. Everything was good.

Athena 3:52

Oh my gosh. It was such a blast. Everyone had so much fun. They were like, this is the craziest thing, and there was something for everyone to do. I mean, the the boards were packed pretty much the whole time. The tailgate challenge area, there's people rocking and rolling left and right. So it was just a little bit of everything, and it was really cool. And all of the sponsors and partners that you brought in just to make that extra fun and exciting, I thought was super, super unique, and everyone loved it.

How cornhole grew from backyard game to ESPN

Luke 4:19

It's definitely definitely unique because that's the first time I've ever seen it done. And we'll we'll work to do some more stuff, but like that's kind of what brings us together on the podcast today, because like Athena, you said it, like tailgating cornhole fun, right? Two things that go hand in hand. And so, like, you know, what we're doing, like what I'm doing with Tailgate and Challenge and Tailgate Connect, what you're doing with the American Cornhole League, like they go in tandem because as we talked about before the show started, you know, one of the questions I asked the guest on this show, what is your favorite tailgating game? And 80% of the time, the answer is cornhole, period. Cornhole, period, with that. So, so, so I know cornhole has been affiliated kind of with with tailgating for years and years and years, but like cornhole has seen this monumental rise over the last decade to now it's being on ESPN. And I mean, there's ACL pros like all over the place. Like, tell us a little bit about like how Cornhole became just a backyard game, something people will play at tailgates to be in a legitimate sport that's being considered for the Olympics, Sal.

The vision behind Limitless League expansion

Athena 5:30

Yes, yeah, it's super exciting. I mean, you know, as as you said, you know, tailgating has been around probably since the end of time. Whoever the first tailgator is, I wish we had that person's name and gave them a big old high five because it it really is just an exciting moment. And, you know, cornhole has really been one of those things where people would just kind of, you know, grab bags and boards and get their buddies and get ready for a football game, a high school football game, maybe a baseball game. You know, you can tailgate literally anything. And maybe that could be your next series. Where can I tailgate? All of it, everything. Do it all. Um, but what's so incredible about it is that it's one of those things that I don't think people really put together as, you know, this is a sport. And I don't think people fully realize that, you know, tailgating and cordhole always go hand in hand. And I think people think of it more of the backyard game. Now that's a hundred percent where it originated from, and it's still there to this day. I mean, it a hundred percent exists. We had about 10 people at our house last night in our backyard tossing bags just for fun. So all day, every day, there's something. And what was so incredible is, you know, Stacy Moore, who's our commissioner, he had this incredible vision early on. You know, there is a lot of different, you know, types of leagues that were coming up and, you know, people started creating clubs and doing these things. And, you know, this was, you know, a decade ago, like you said, it's been quite a while. And, you know, he had this vision on what is it that I can do to really ramp up this sport? Because in his vision, he said that there has to be a point system. You know, how do we elevate it to a professional level as well? You know, the backyard level is there, it exists, it's there all day, every day. And it's it's it's a part of everyone's, I would say, everyday life for the most part, especially, you know, even in everyone's backyard. So it just made sense to find a way how we can expand on that. And the way he built his structure, you know, creating, um, you know, finding the right folks to create an incredible software that not only tracks all of your stats, but it also has longevity. So you can look up stats from years ago. You know, I have players who were posting photos from their stats from probably five years ago, sharing, you know, where they were then to now. And the beauty of the ACL is that it really is, you know, anyone can play, anyone can win. Because you have people from the backyard going to, you know, a regular local night, maybe it's a bar, maybe it's your, you know, local a restaurant, and all of a sudden they have some bags and some boards there. And then all of a sudden, you know, you see the ACL software there, and you might wonder, what is this? Now you can still enjoy it as a recreational backyard sport, but you can also do something a little bit more elevated to that. And that's where, you know, you kind of have that middle ground. And the way we have everything set up, it's we have an entire season. So it runs from October 1st until our world championships, which kicks off in July. We just announced that a couple of weeks ago. And people can really compete and play. We have singles, doubles, crew cup, uh, tandem. We've got a little bit of everything for everyone that kind of fits those who want to be a little bit more competitive, who maybe want to attend a regional tournament and see how do they stack up? You know, you might be the backyard champion at home or at your Easter barbecue, but are you the backyard champion, you know, in your local community? The beauty of everything that we did is you can choose what level you want to be. You know, do you want to remain in your backyard? 100%. That's awesome. Keep going to tailgates doing all of that. Do you want to attend local tournaments, regional tournaments? Do you want to see how you do it? Your state championship and then maybe attend Worlds. And if you have never been to Worlds, holy moly. It is the mecca of everything cornhole. You see all of our, you know, vendors that are there. I mean, these are the ones who are building the bags and boards, creating the merchandise. And then you get to see over a hundred sets of boards laid out in one room. And then, of course, your ESPN broadcast. And it's the craziest thing to just know that it came from someone's vision starting in the backyard because Stacy also, you know, he tailgated. So he understood what that looked like.

Luke 9:41

And in his mind, he's like, When he was a tailgator before he got into the courthole stuff way back in the day.

Athena 9:48

A hundred percent. And just that that vision, that idea. And it's just one of those things that, you know, he moved forward with.com or iplaycl.com or theacl.com. Many of those will take you there. And it it shows you how to get started. You can get started as a player. Maybe you want to run tournaments, and it's just the community is amazing. And same thing at a tailgate. I feel like you can go and hang out, set up your tailgate, walk two cars over, and you're all sharing, you know, hot dogs and hamburgers and burgers. And that completely transferred over to the competitive side. It's the exact same thing, except we're typically indoors and everything's a little bit more, you know, measured, a little bit more, you know, set on how it needs to be. But the community is the exact same. There is no difference from that tailorgating community to the more competitive side. It's the same people, same everything, and it's the coolest thing on the planet. Everyone likes to have fun.

Cornhole on TV and growing beyond the US

Luke 11:02

Sure. No, I'm I'm I'm definitely with you on that fun part of it for sure. So I I mean, now if you cut your TV on and you find an ESPN channel, there's a chance cornhole is gonna be on, right? At some point, like over the weekend or over the course of the week. So I always wonder, like, like what was the tipping point that that truly took it from somebody's vision that I'm gonna take this and and make it a sport till I now just being on ESPN and probably being seen by millions of people every single week. Well, what do we do we know where the tipping point came from?

Athena 11:33

You know, again, just Stacey Moore, he just really made he was so impactful in making sure that we could expand beyond um, you know, what we were doing. Now, granted, you know, we had, you know, um our ACL Digital Network, YouTube, you know, Facebook, things like that was kind of where it started. And he was able to make that connection uh branch into, you know, working with the SPN and saying, look, like, give this a shot. Like, what can I do? And, you know, really made sure. And he made that case. And, you know, they had their very first, you know, broadcast. And we we look at all of the photos. It was in Vegas and it was on top of this building, and they're all out there, and it's just it's this craziest thing compared to now, um, where we actually just locked in another three-year deal with ESPN very recently. And yeah, it's it's so exciting, and I'm I'm so proud of just all of the work and every person who's on the team. I mean, they kick butt the behind-the-scenes effort behind the competitive side of Cornhole is is huge. You know, there's there's lots of partners that, you know, you work with and finding venues and locations and, you know, really trying to help players from all skill levels, um, including us also uh bringing in the Limitless League. And we're super excited and super proud. It's very new. Um, we're kicking it off again this weekend in Kansas City. We'll have our signature open with an ESPN broadcast and our first pro team event of the season, uh, which is super exciting. So that's going to be aired um through ESPN Plus, uh, YouTube, TikTok, Facebook, all over the place. So it is a teams weekend with conveniently the Arizona burn getting the number one seed. So I'm just throwing that out there as an Arizona girl.

Luke 13:18

So tell me, you said limitless. For those that don't know, what is it, what does that mean you said it's new?

Athena 13:23

Yeah, so the the limitless league, what that is, is again just a another vision. You know, how is it that we can ensure that everyone at all abilities have the, you know, availability in order to actually play cornhole. So it's anyone who has, you know, any type of special ability, you know, maybe um they're in, you know, either, you know, a wheelchair or maybe they have, you know, something else, you know, kind of going on that they need a little bit of assistance or they need the boards to be a little bit closer. So we made sure that we have an adaptive court area now, which we've had at two tournaments so far, and it has been phenomenal. Uh swag bags has been a huge part of putting this together. So Chauncey has really, you know, brought this in. Uh Josh Page, so their whole family, it's just been incredible. And you're going to see that at every single one of our signatures for the rest of the season. We have a couple of set, you know, boards ready to go for it. And it's really just to encourage everyone because we we want everyone to enjoy the game at every single level. So having those there where we can have, you know, 15 feet instead of 27 feet. And, you know, we have little tape markings where they can stand and we have some incredible pros. Um, Chris Kingsbury is one that comes to mind. And he spends so much time over there. Anytime he has a chance, if he is not playing, he is at those adaptive courts, making sure that he's ready and available, you know, doing some one-on-one training. And it is the coolest thing on the planet. So we're excited to expand that a little bit more in the future, but really just, you know, getting our feet wet and kicking it off and just really bringing, you know, the entire community as a whole into what it is that we're doing.

Luke 15:02

Amazing. Amazing. So you you said this a little bit earlier, too, where it's like, you know, you think you're good at the tailgate, but like, how are you going to be against the whole community? So for people that are maybe interested and be like, you know what? Like, I do think I'm pretty dang good. I do think I can compete in the league. Like, if someone wanted to do that, hey, first tell me how do they get involved? I think you said the website, but do they just go to the website and sign up to find a local event? Is that is that how it worked for the average person?

Athena 15:30

Yeah, definitely. So you can go over to our website. And we actually have our brand new app that is going to be released very, very soon. So we have a ton of marketing that's going to start pushing out the release date of our app. Um, it's phenomenal. So it's something where we're, you know, moving into the next generation of what it is that the players are asking for. Uh, but with that, they can just go online to our website, literally click on find events, and right there they can find a local tournament within their area. Now, to pre-register for those tournaments, uh, all they need is a free ACL account. And essentially what that does is it just allows them the opportunity to be able to receive those notifications that says, hey, no, come on over to your board, um, which you witnessed when we were at the Snoop Doggs event. People were all over the place and everywhere, but they made it to their board on time. And that's the the beauty of our technology is it it expands a really great reach and it's very easy to use so that people can, you know, get to where they need to get to. Um, but it it's incredible, you know, find a local club there. You can also find a local director. So maybe they decide, hey, I'm going to try out this tournament, see how it goes, and they fall in love with it. And I think typically people fall in love not just with the game, but with the people at that particular venue. And so they're like, I want to keep coming here. And then the, you know, person running the show says, we're here every Tuesday night from 6 p.m. until 10 p.m. Come on out. And and then you get the bug instantly.

Regional events and the pathway to pro

Luke 16:57

So, you know, one of the things I've I've seen and met some of the amazing ACL pros out there, and they're really freaking good. And so, like for some, it's like, are there levels to it, right? Like if somebody's like, I'm pretty good, but I know I can't compete with the pros yet, like is it is it radies like a level one, two, three, four, five, does it go up kind of like with tennis rankings or anything where you're competing against people against your maybe your level versus like a really, really pro level?

Athena 17:23

Oh, yeah, definitely. And that that's what's great about you know, regional events and higher, and some local events do a split. But if you were to walk into one of our larger open tournaments, again, those ones are incredible to attend. The experience alone is so exciting. So I always encourage people to go to an open if they can. Uh, but we do offer levels uh tier one, which is your highest tier, that's your open tier. Um, above that, we have our pro tier, but then you also have tiers two, three, four, and five, with five being that backyard recreational player. You know, they they don't have a very high, you know, PPR, which is your points per round. So you're kind of getting it on the board or close enough to the board, or maybe you're just sitting your bags on the board and maybe not always going in the hole, but there's definitely a place for everyone. And this year in particular, the ACL uh officially launched our cornhole player index. Uh, we have, you know, Dave, who's been a huge part of creating that, and then Michael Gonzalez, who's been a huge part of just collecting the data, understanding the information. And what that essentially does is it ranks every player based off of, you know, where they play consistently. And so you can get a CPI rating from zero, which is I just created an account, I just started, I have not played anything ever, so you're at a zero. And it progressively ensures that as consistent as you play when you attend these opens and, you know, regionals and state events, that you're playing within your skill level. And, you know, it it's going to take time for it to get exactly where it needs to be as people start participating and playing in those tournaments. But it's the coolest thing to watch people who really geek out on it. And if you love sports, most people who love sports love stats and they love tracking stats of other people, of themselves. And it just helps you understand your progression over time. And it's super exciting. And our new app is going to feature some incredible ways to view your stats that I'm super excited for the public to see.

The Olympic push for cornhole

Luke 19:22

Excellent. No, I'm over here. I have one of these like giant sport tickers in there. It's like a five-foot sports ticker over there. And I'm like, man, what one day there might be like cornhole stuff just floating down the bottom so I can get showing me like future NBA games and hockey games and everything. It'll show future cornhole matchups or player stats, maybe in the future.

Athena 19:39

Yeah, that would be pretty awesome. I think there's there's a pretty good way. We have um, you know, Corey, he is creating some incredible stuff. Um, he came in officially full-time this season. He's one of our producers of our live streaming, and the stuff that he is making is blowing all of our minds. I mean, we just saw some cool stuff even today and this past week that we're going to be introducing on our uh official kickoff for pro team. So I think that that's possible. There's probably definitely a way to get that going for sure.

Luke 20:10

Excellent. Excellent. All right, well, something about this. So, so we alluded to it earlier. It's kind of been in the news recently, like with Cornhole potentially getting into the Olympics. Can you give us any more like vision on that? Do you think it's gonna happen? Is it happening? Like, what can you tell us about Cornhole and the Olympics in the future?

Athena 20:29

Oh, it's definitely going to be there for sure. I mean, it's one of those things where we are just scratching the surface, you know, where it needs to be. Um, again, just hats off Stacy Moore. He implemented so many things that wasn't just, you know, recreational, wasn't just in the United States. Now we're in Canada. We have ACL Europe and we have the World Cornhole Organization as well. And the whole purpose of him creating that many years ago, and it's expanded tremendously to this day now, um, was the purpose to, you know, get enough federations and do what we need to do to get into the Olympics in the future. So I will always say that we will a hundred percent be there as to the timing of when it will happen, hopefully sooner rather than later. But I a hundred percent see that that vision and you know the the ACL's constantly looking five to ten years ahead and really trying to make sure that we can, you know, make the correct moves and do what we need to do to make sure that it's something that does get there to the Olympics. I mean, that's, you know, a huge priority. And, you know, once once we get there, you know, I'm excited to see what the next step after that is going to be.

Luke 21:37

Yeah, I mean, I feel like I have never tailgated for the Olympics, but that would give me every incentive and reason to go out there and tailgate for the Olympics when Cornhole makes its uh debut out there.

Athena 21:47

See, there you go. That would be fun. Maybe we'll have to write that down, make sure we send that in there. So Stacy, everyone who's watching, tailgating at the Olympics. I mean, why not?

Luke 21:58

Tailgate everything, right? So why? Not the Olympics and cornholes. That makes sense to me.

Athena 22:02

It definitely does. And I don't know if anyone's tailgated at an Olympic game yet.

Luke 22:07

Yeah, but personally not saying it hasn't happened, but it needs to. It needs to tailgate in the Olympics.

Athena 22:13

I agree.

Luke 22:13

All right. So h how many like roughly ACL pro players are there across America right now? Do you have an idea?

Athena 22:21

Yes, yep. So we have um, so we have two different subsets of pro players. So we have our top 100. So that's 100 players right there. And those are essentially the ones who are, you know, pretty much on those pro teams. Uh we have 10 pro teams that are also owners, uh, they have ownership this year. So it's very, very different. We have multiple companies, different people that own our pro teams now in a really, really exciting licensing deal. So they are kicking butt. Um, so most of our top 100 are there. That is the best of the best. Those are the ones that you are like, oh my gosh, I'm going to get very nervous if I play against them. But it is also the coolest experience if you get the opportunity to. So they're 100% those top-tier players. Uh, then what we have is a different group of pros. So we have your women pro, junior pro, senior pro, and then an ACL pro uh vision. And essentially what those groups are is they are pros within their respective division with our ACL Pro. Um, those are the ones that are really those top-tier players within their state. And we recently, you know, did that this season as well, introduced that to allow state representation. And every state has that person who is the best player in their state. So the ability to say, you know what, you're number one in your state, you 100%, you know, should have a pro card. And all of them uh play in to get into the main bracket to play against the top 100 pros in order to earn points to hopefully become a top 100 pro in the future. So lots of exciting ways to get to pro status within the ACL, which is good.

Luke 24:00

Okay, so when I hear the word pro, when I uh ESPN, I know some people are saying, do do cornhole pros get get paid? Or are they making money to be like a professional cornhole player? Does that happen?

Athena 24:13

Um, it does happen in the sense of their sponsorship. So we have, again, incredible sponsors for these players. You know, these players, again, every contract is different and we don't have specific access to every single player's contract, but we do know an idea of what some of them are. So between, you know, you have some players who can average anywhere from, you know, maybe they're guaranteed 2,000 plus merchandise plus gear plus, you know, travel expenses, all the way up to players making over $60,000 a year who are actually doing this full-time as a full-time job. Um, what's exciting is with the introduction of our pro teams, we ran a pro draft, and now all of those players on pro teams have a salary band that has been added to what they currently have. So as far as a very specific salary, I would say, you know, look to other sports and kind of how they do it with their salary bands and caps and everything that they do have. But even though our pros also have sponsorships, we have a lot of amateur players who are also sponsored as well. So you don't have to be a pro to get a sponsorship, but those top players who are going to get you your ROI on, you know, television, those are those, you know, top 100 pros for sure.

Luke 25:27

So uh again, for those that might be listening right now, maybe the younger generation of people that think they're really good and coming up like Cornhole, to me, it's still ascending. If we're talking about Olympics, we're talking about this. So again, there might be opportunity to. I remember like being a kid, it's like, oh, you know, when I grow up, I'm gonna play video games for money. And like, you know, the family's like, no, no, you're not, right? And now people are making like a lot of money playing video games that are really good at it, right? And you never know where that could go to actually be like a really big source of income for those that are supremely talented in this area.

Athena 25:58

Yeah, a hundred percent. And it's only growing from here. You know, the the pro teams is going to be, you know, insane in the future. There's really cool things coming down the pipeline that once all of that kind of comes out, I think people are going to get more excited. And, you know, the the goal ultimately at the end of the day is, you know, having salaries, doing all these things, you know, being able to provide that to players is one of those big things as well that is a hundred percent on our minds. You know, what steps and moves do we need to do? What type of, you know, marketing and PR, like what are the things that have to happen in order to elevate the sport, in order to get those sponsorships, not only for the ACL as a whole and the sport as a whole, but also for these players. You know, there's tons of sports that have these opportunities. So we really want to make sure that we build on those relationships. And another super cool thing that the ACL also does that I would like to add in is we are also a part of um ACL College and ACL High School. So high school players, you know, if you play, you know, Cornhole, you have the ability in receiving a collegiate scholarship for Cornhole. And yeah, so a little bit of everything, you know, Winthrop University is one of those ones that people, you know, see a lot. You have Adrian College, um, some other, you know, larger universities as well that are in there. I mean, we have, I want to say a little over, probably close to 40 plus, you know, between colleges and universities. And some of these are D1 schools. So it's incredible to see just the growth and for a kiddo to be able to say, I'm going to school and I have a partial scholarship or a pretty darn good scholarship for cornhole. And it's the craziest thing. So it's it's definitely building a pathway. And, you know, ACL has so many different buckets and pathways and education, you know, even between directors, we spend a lot of time trying to create leadership within our directors. We have a bucket of over 60 resources and a director resource center. We're not just training people to just, you know, plop some stuff in and, you know, run a tournament. Um, we want to help them excel and do what they can within their community because at the end of the day, you know, we we want everyone to be able to, you know, not only just make some kind of money behind it, but to be able to grow their community and just have fun. Because in all honesty, cornhole does a lot for mental health. You know, sometimes you're outdoors, you're around other people. It's so huge and so important. And, you know, there's there's kids who maybe don't talk a lot. And one of the best stories that I have is uh Minabella Woods. So she's watching this, she is going to message me the second she hears this and she's gonna say, Why did you save me? Um, I I will never forget her and her dad. They had come to one of our regionals. They only showed up to regionals, by the way. And I was like, who are these people? What are they doing? They're constantly coming here. And she was this, you know, sweet little girl. I believe she's about 12 at the time when I had met her, 12, yep, 12 years old. And she would always come. And finally I, you know, mustered up the courage. And I went up to her dad and I was like, is that your daughter? Like, you guys never stay, you play, and then you leave. Like, what's going on? Where do you live? They lived less than five minutes away from our freaking venue. I was like, why don't we see you Tuesdays and Fridays and Wednesdays? And like, we didn't know. I was like, oh my gosh. And now she is a junior pro in Arizona, female, kicking butt, 15 years old, and just phenomenal and you know, crossing fingers. You know, she's one of those ones who gets a collegiate scholarship. And it's just so impressive to see that um and to be a part of it too, is really exciting.

Luke 29:37

No, that's that's a great story. And hopefully there's a lot more of those to come in the future, too, with some of the younger generation getting into the sports. So, Athena, is it something? Am I hearing this correctly? We're talking about college scholarships. Could could it one day be like where it's like the SEC, like a you know, Texas versus South Carolina in a cornhole, like, you know, weekend matchup? Like, is is that is that coming?

Athena 30:00

What's happening? That's going on right now.

Luke 30:03

Okay, see, this is my ignorance right here.

Athena 30:05

We we have it, you know, it's it's again, you know, one of those things where we're scratching the surface, you know, where we're trying to find ways and you know, putting um, you know, energy in different buckets. And we have some incredible people who are already doing, you know, head-to-head matchups and you know, they they have rankings, you know, where we're working on really building that a little bit more in the future to really give it a much better spotlight um in order to do that. And every um every year, Myrtle Beach will be there again this year. Um, New Year's Day, we have our national high school and collegiate championships. We crown the champion and it's aired on television. So it's incredibly exciting. You know, they they're all you know ranked and seated. And I mean, these these players are fierce. And to see people just cheer on their school team is so exciting. It's the coolest thing. I I love team sports, so I'm all about the collegiate teams, pro teams, uh, minor league teams, all of it. And I'm obsessed with them all.

Luke 31:04

Yeah, no, I feel like I need to talk to you probably more after this because it's like, man, with with all the tailgating that we do, a lot of it's for college events. And I'm like, if there's like cornhole that's already tied into some of these universities, like there. Yeah, we got we gotta talk more because that sounds like an awesome opportunity. Hopefully that continues to grow. Because I think a lot of people, if they find out about that, like that's good to be like, all right, we're gonna go tailgate for that for sure.

Athena 31:28

Yeah, no, it's it's a blast. And we also have a college tour. Uh Jake Brann, he went out, you know, he had his uh camping world RB, headed out and did a collegiate tour and hung out, did some great activations, a little bit of tailgating, and it's it's the coolest thing. So it's it's ever growing. And one of the things that I always remind people, because they're like, you guys are this massive corporation, you should be here and there and everywhere. And the reminder is we're still a baby. You know, it's been about 10 years, you know, we're still, you know, getting everything figured out, getting everything completely finalized, you know, getting the right people hired, getting all of our resources together and just really building everything up. So it does take a little bit of time, especially in the sports industry, because there's there's a lot, and especially in schools, there's a lot of things that you have to do. And, you know, you have NIL, you have, you know, the NCAA, you've got all these different things. And so we're we're working towards all of that. But I I'm excited to see where, you know, the next five to 10 years brings us because I think, you know, we we can come back, we'll mark it in our calendars 10 years from now. We'll be like, okay. And maybe by then I can say, you know, we've done 150 college tailgate tours with you and see if that works out.

Luke 32:40

Yeah. Tailgate tours always sounds good to me. Sounds good to me. All right. Athena, let me ask you this question. So, you know, I I think back to when I I first really got into like tailgating like big time, like after college and everything. And that that was like before the full ascension of ACL and everything. And I'll be like, when I'm thinking back to some of the bags and boards and things that I had, like, there's been a big time evolution in regards to the cornhole gear and the stuff that players use, specifically like with bags and boards, right? Can you tell me a little bit about that? Because I know there are some pro players uh that are very finicky with their bags. Very finicky with their bags. For the people that don't like, tell us more about like the, I guess, like what's happening in there, why they're so particular about that, because for the average person, it's like a a bag's a bag, but that's not really the case.

Athena 33:32

Oh my gosh, exactly. And just just with I know the the evolution of the sport created the evolution of a certified equipment. And that's one of the big things, again, the the ACL just invested so much. You have Anthony Aon. He is our scientist, you know, cornhole science. He's also on YouTube, and he broke down every fabric, every type of filling. I mean, everything you can think of. Um, he has a humidity tracker where he says, okay, if it's this humid on this side of the building and the bags are gonna do this. If it's this humid on this side of the building, it's going to do that. And so many things go into it. And the ACL's done a phenomenal job at figuring out the science behind cornhole, as well as, you know, what works in Arizona, which is dry and fast, does not work in South Carolina where it's slow and sticky. And yes, and all of these bag companies that that we've partnered with, you know, they are, you know, ACL certified. They have the stamp on them. So anytime if you go out there and you see an ACL stamp on any equipment between bags and boards, it it's it's gone through the test. It has gone through every test you can think of at our warehouse and, you know, in the lab, you know, with Anthony. And he's made sure that he, you know, every bit of material has gone through an approval process. And you know, material comes from so many different places of the country as well as, you know, the world. And people don't always realize that there's restrictions between materials and all these things and to make sure that everything is safe products. You know, ACL does have a standard that we do uphold, and it's also part of our ACL fair play. Um, so essentially, with all of that, you know, we we have boards that are designed. Um, we have ACL Rec, which is your backyard, you know, use those boards in your backyard. It's what you would see at a normal store. We have ACL comp boards, which are a little bit thicker. They're gonna be a little bit more, you know, playable. They're going to last a pretty darn good long time. Um, then you go into your ACL Elite boards. That's what you're gonna find in your state tournaments, uh, some of the, you know, worlds events. And then your ACL Pro boards. That is your top of the line, best of the best. Um, I have a set of boards from that are 2021 stamped. That to this day, I mean, there is nothing. There is no splinter on them. There is nothing. Now they are slow as molasses because they are, you know, old. They've got a little bit of grit on them, a little bit of dirt, and they've been used, but they're they they last a long time. And same thing with the bags. You have your um, you know, unstamped bags. You have your ACL rec bags that are going to last you a little bit longer, especially if you're a backyard champion with your family. Um, then we have our comp bags, you know, those, you know, just have a different type of fill in them than the pro bags. So lots of stuff, lots of information on our equipment. And what's so good is it's all broken down on our website as well. So for someone who's like, oh my gosh, what like I'm I'm overwhelmed. What do I do? Um, all of our amazing bag partners are there. And then if you want any ACL certified equipment, you can also go to our shop.iplacl.com and order anything from there as well. And that comes, you know, directly from our partners also.

Luke 36:43

Excellent, excellent. So there's levels to all of the uh the gear over there too.

Athena 36:47

Yep, exactly. And and just like with with anything else, you know, you've got, you know, good, better, best sort of thing. And that's you know, with anyone, you know, you go into a store and you're like, okay, do I do this brand or do I do that brand? Or, you know, things like that where we we kind of have all the different types of levels based off of where you want to play, you know, where where is your competitive level? Um, and you can find, you know, some of our equipment even in stores. You know, we have some stuff in Dicks, we're in Shields, um, tons of places. We have a couple of end caps here and there. So you can actually find us in the stores as well, um, is online, and then of course, all of our partners. So it's super exciting.

Luke 37:25

Excellent. No, definitely need to check some of that stuff out. Now that I I knew the stamps were on there, but I didn't know there was actually, I guess, like levels to the uh the stamps or what you kind of need for your own individual use as well.

Athena 37:38

Yep, definitely.

Luke 37:40

Athena, I I know the answer to this question, but I'm gonna ask it to you anyway, so I just want to hear what your response is. So I know like, you know, we talked about like cornhole and tailgating, like or go hand in hand with it, you know, they've been together for years and years and years, right? And one of the things, like a tailgates would be like we a lot of people enjoy having a beverage in hand, maybe the adult variety, right? And playing playing cornhole. So can players drink alcohol while they play in events with uh ACL?

Drinking and competing — does it help?

Athena 38:08

Yep, yep, they definitely still can. You know, it's again the tailgating culture is still on the you know competitive side of the culture. Now, you know, depending on, you know, years down the line, you know, will that change, will it not change? You know, who knows what's going to happen there. But yes, it is definitely possible. I know you're going to see a lot of your players who actively do that. Uh, one of the most famous, Adam Hissner, you will know who he is because he is wearing his bucket hat and he's got a drink in hand and he throws a bag with a drink in hand like nobody's business, and he hits the shot every single time.

Luke 38:42

So it's Hey, it's only crazy if it doesn't work, right?

Athena 38:45

Exactly. I might, you know, loosen up some nerves and you know, you never know. And and some people like that's that's just what what they like to do, you know. Maybe it makes their comfort level like I'm at home, I'm relaxing, I'm hanging out with my buddies, and you know, they do that. And then you do have the players who are like, I am not touching a drop of alcohol all weekend long. And of course, you have the kids, you know, they're they're dominating, they're kicking butt, and you know, they cannot drink. So again, you know, maybe, maybe it's maybe it's their their secret weapon because they cannot do that. So it's it's interesting for sure.

Luke 39:19

And uh obviously I've been to some of the events, I know that happens out there. I just think it's it's like the one sport where it's like, sure, want a beer? Sure, have a couple beers before you start playing uh with it and it and it's okay. I obviously I know you want to say too, like, please don't drink and drive and be responsible and all that good stuff. We want to make sure we highlight that part of it. But again, I go back to like cornhole is one of the the few sports on ESPN, you're gonna be like, yeah, have a beer. Yeah, have two. That's cool.

Athena 39:45

No, exactly. And it's it makes it very interesting and very unique. And it's one of those things that, you know, a lot of you know, sports and things like that. You know, of course, you know, there's some like, you know, I'm be running and drinking and you know, things of that nature, but it's one of those things that the community as a whole is very unapologetic about it because it is a part of that tailgating crossover culture that's also into competitive sports. So again, and maybe that's why everyone enjoys, you know, the events, because everyone's like, hey, buddy, what's going on? Let's hang out. And and it's true though, like I, you know, again, obviously I do not have any beverages while I am working, but you could go up to anybody and you could say, oh man, you've got like five drinks in that bucket. It'd be, I'm so thirsty. And they'd be like, sure. Like everyone is, you know, they're they're buying drinks for each other. They are having a freaking blast. And it's just a part of that, that culture, which, you know, again, in the future, will that stay? Will it eventually change? You know, will it translate? You know, again, you know, the the Olympics are the big thing that we want. And, you know, there's rules and stuff behind that. So it'll be interesting to see how that evolves years down the line.

Luke 40:51

For sure. Does does ACL have uh a beverage like is like the official drink of does it does it have one of those or just kind of is it is it open right now? Just people just kind of do it do whatever they want.

Athena 41:03

Uh you know, it's it's fairly open right now. And what what's interesting is that, you know, we do have players who do have partnerships with a couple of companies. Um a couple of our uh you know, bag manufacturers have partnerships as well. I know that um uh Reynolds Bags Online, uh, they have partnerships with it, some Miller's Coors, um a couple of those different ones. So they they do have their own separate partnerships, but as of right now, nothing as a whole for this season that we currently have, but you know, that could change.

Luke 41:38

All right, let me let me add this is one of my last questions I got for you today. So if tailgators play cornhole, do professional cornhole players go tailgating and play cornhole at tailgates?

Athena 41:51

You know, I see a lot of them that and they they definitely do. Yeah, I 100% would say yes, they go and they play. Now, a lot of the times they're they're going with other cornhole players to these tailgates and they're like, we've got bags, we've got boards. I mean, they they have the perfect setup. Most of these guys have their own equipment, and so they're hauling it to tailgates. Um, so yes, I would say if you're a professional cornhole player, you are tailgating. You know, you you never know who you're going to get at those. Now, a funny thing that I would say is most professional cornhole players enjoy golf. So you will see a lot of them also golfing, which is so interesting to me. Um, but yes, they do that. That is a crossover right there for sure. But yes, they definitely tailgate for sure.

Luke 42:40

Because that was my other question too, because it's like if if these the pros of the pros, right? They're making this a living. They're probably doing cornhole all the time. At some point, they'd be like, you know, I need to play golf or or just do and not play cornhole. Where a lot of us would be like, in the event we play cornhole at the tailgate, but they're like, dude, I play cornhole all day, every day. Like, I don't really want to play cornhole at the at the tailgate, too. Like, is there is there cornhole burnout for the pros? And is that where or is that where golf comes in?

Athena 43:07

You know, that that's gotta be where golf comes in, but I'm talking like they're like, okay, we're gonna golf first thing in the morning, and then we're gonna play our pro vents in the afternoon. Like it's it's insane. They're still playing cornhole. They're still playing cornhole. I mean, you know, a lot of these folks, like, okay, is there a golf course? I mean, we we have some pro chats and they're like, hey guys, we're going golfing. I'm getting like a six-man team or you know, whatever it is that they call it. And they're actively looking for places to golf when they're going to these events, which is so interesting to me. And these guys, they they don't get burnt out. If you play cornhole and if you enjoy it, I we know players who will play seven days a week, go to an open, spend 14 hours a day in that venue, and they will keep on playing. They will play until the last bag has hit the board, and you'll see a room full of people still doing cash games, still playing. And I'm looking at them, I'm like, you walked in these doors at eight o'clock this morning. It is 11 o'clock at night, and they would still go on if we let them. I mean, they would keep on going. And it's just, again, the experience and just being there, you know, not all the time. Can you do, you know, 14-hour days of just tossing bags? But people will do it. And I get exhausted watching them. Uh I do not play often. Very rare do I play. But when I do, I'm like, okay, guys, it's a lot of walking. I'm usually sitting. This is this is actually a lot more work than than I thought. And, you know, as hilarious and as embarrassing as it is, like I we we had one on Valentine's Day. We went out to Phoenix. My husband and I drove and went to support one of our really, really good friends. And I played with my husband. I said, This is my gift to you. And I was horrifically sore the next day. My shoulder, I was like, why am I hurting? This makes no sense. And, you know, tossing bags for a few hours. I their stamina is beyond anything. I mean, that it should be studied, the stamina of a cornhole player from 8 a.m. until, you know, midnight.

Luke 45:15

No doubt. No doubt. Especially if they're having a couple of beverages during that time period as well, too. But I digress.

Athena 45:20

Yep.

Luke 45:21

All right, all right, last question, I think for real. What other yard game do you play in your household? Or is it only cornhole? We can't play any other compet competitive yard game at all because of what you do for a living.

Bocce, ramps, football — the backyard rotation

Athena 45:36

My gosh. So cornhole lives in our backyard. Like I said, we had people at our home, which was insane last night, uh, tossing some bags. There are boards out there right now. I know I think my husband and son were playing a little bit earlier. So it it's always there. Um, but there are a couple of other games, you know, yard games themselves. I would say, um, is it bocce ball? Bocce ball. We do that every now and again. So we'll do that, of course. There's, I don't know if you'd call it yard games like football, and they're always tossing the football in the backyard. Um, and then the the ramps game has actually become a huge favorite out here. I mean, we had um a get together a couple weeks ago for my husband's birthday and busted out with that so the adults can enjoy, you know, cornhole. And it was a rotation. They were playing cornhole, and then they were doing a little, you know, ramps competition and trying to figure out stuff, and it was the craziest thing. And now everyone is like, dang, we actually like this is really fun too. But I would say that. Um, and then cards. Cards are the one thing that are always happening, um, indoor, outdoor, everywhere too.

Regulation distances and the backyard rules debate

Luke 46:45

Nice, nice. Well, no, again, I'm a big fan of ramps as well. But again, it has a lot of cornhole elements to the to the game, right? For those that that haven't seen it, it's skee ball, cornhole, and elements of beer pong all rolled into one. So you definitely gotta check that out if you haven't seen it before, because it is something that once you start playing, you're like, I gotta play a little bit more of that too. But it has that cornhole element of getting a miniature bag into one of the cups of holes on the other side of the of the board.

Athena 47:10

Yeah, it's it's crazy. It's fun, and there's there's technique to it too. So it's it's interesting. I tell everyone, I was like, okay. Now, one thing that we didn't actually look at is is there a regulation distance to that game? We haven't looked, but we had a whole argument actually about it at the last backyard thing. And we were like, well, this is 27 feet. What if these were 27 feet? What if it's only 15? What if it's 10? So it became this whole thing. And now that just reminded me that I need to look at that to see is there regulation for it?

Tailgating at local high school games

Luke 47:40

Yeah. I mean, there's I feel like there's regulation to every single game that I've played, but then it goes back to as well, like if you want to do a little bit shorter or further away, like if both sides are playing at the same distance, like and you're having fun, that's what the main thing is with all this.

Athena 47:54

Yes, a hundred percent. And I think that that's what's the coolest thing. You know, you can enjoy yourself, you know, tailgate again hand in hand. Um, you know, we we tailgate local high school football games. They haven't kicked us out of the parking lot yet, which is good. But yes, yet. No, not done it yet. But we have, you know, regular boards, mini boards, and you know, a little bit of everything. But it's really just, you know, both tailgating and all of Cornhole between your amateur level, your competitive pro level. It's it's the same type of environment, just a different location. And the people are always the same. And I think at the end of the day, that's why we all do, you know, what we do, running tournaments or, you know, going to tailgates. It's it's for the people and just the experience. So it's always good.

Luke 48:40

No doubt. The people, the experience, fun. Again, going back to how we started the show, cornhole and tailgating go hand in hand and probably will for years and years and years to come with it as well. So I think to tell everybody one more time, if they want to get involved with American Cornhole League, they want to show up their skills, tell them how they do that, where they can find you to get out there and have some fun playing cornhole.

Athena 49:01

Oh my gosh, perfect. So just on our website is going to be our number one resource of all truth. So everything that we have going on and happening, not just in the United States, but Canada, internationally, worlds, everything, uh, they can go on to theacl.com, iplaycornhole.com, and of course, very soon, uh check your local app store and Google Play Store because we will have the cornhole app there as well. And so that's going to be there. And you can find the ACL in our new app store as well. Um, also, if you want to say, hey, I just want to jump in, uh, you can go to ap.iplayacl.com, create an account, and start playing. It's that simple and that easy.

Luke 49:45

Nice, nice, nice. All right. Well, here, thank you so much for coming on the show, hanging out with us, talking some cornhole. Again, loop tailgate connect here, closing our show out. Thank you. If you tuned in to the end of the show, we definitely appreciate your time. And if if you tuned in to the end, it means you love tailgating and cornhole. We have tailgates at tailgate connect across the country. And trust me, a lot of them have cornhole. If they don't, I think it's probably gonna make them all have cornhole before it's all said and done. So thanks for tuning in and hope you all have a great night and see you at a tailgate there.

Music 50:17

Thank you. Tailgate connect, it's all here for you. Food drinking friends under sky so blue.