Coaching Beyond the Game: Kristin Wodrich on Faith, Identity & Kingdom Leadership

This episode speaks to coaches, Christian leaders, athletes, parents, and anyone wrestling with purpose, pressure, and identity.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:22

Welcome to Coach and Minutia. I have a very special guest today. It's funny how God works. Y'all have no idea the conversation that we had before we started, and it was all about the Lord. I mean, I just thought it was great, but um I would like to introduce you to my friend Kristen. Okay. Kristen, tell everybody hello. Hello.

SPEAKER_04 0:50

Hi everybody. I'm so excited to be here. This is such an honor. Oh, we get to talk about Jesus in basketball.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

Oh man, nothing like it, nothing like it. If it wasn't for him, we wouldn't be doing this. Amen. And uh I just I'm just so thankful for, you know, obviously the game, but him him showing himself atin the game. We talk about, you know, the creation of basketball was to help spread the gospel, you know, uh through the YMCA and uh Mr. James Nay Smith, so Dr. James Nay Smith, I'm sorry, you know. Um but it it it it has helped shape me, not just as a husband or a father, but as a man, and that has helped me be a small part of you know some young people, some great young people's journey, you know. Uh like we share uh a player, Martha Burst. Yeah, uh she played for you uh for four four years, all four years?

SPEAKER_04 1:42

Well, yeah, she was at IPY and then transferred to UND with me. So all four years, I had to.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

All four years, and then I got the coach her uh some semi-pro ball for the Minneapolis Bandits. Yep, and she came in like a whirlwind and just I mean, she's still taking over the world right now overseas, still playing overseas, still kicking butt. She was MVP a couple seasons ago when they won a championship. Uh shout out to Martha, you know.

SPEAKER_04 2:05

I know I know she's shout out to Martha, she sent me some nice shoes when she won. They're pretty.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

I believe it. I believe it. No, she's a good person, you know, also a believer, you know what I mean? So uh, but but coach, tell me about you. Coach, tell me um tell me about your journey with basketball. Did you play?

SPEAKER_04 2:23

Yeah. I did play. Okay, surprisingly. No, I'm just kidding. Um, I played Division I basketball out at UMBC.

SPEAKER_01 2:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 2:30

Uh the team that beat Virginia in the tournament. That's what everybody really UMBC. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

Let me see if your mic is on, Coach. Is your mic on? You see your color on your mic at the top of it? It's green. Oh, yeah, we're good. We're good. We're good. These are new mics, sorry y'all. I'm just trying to make sure. I want to make sure I get this great information.

SPEAKER_04 2:44

Yeah, so I did play. I played at UMBC for four years, and then I started, I was a graduate assistant at Texas Tech.

SPEAKER_01 2:51

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_04 2:52

And then I've just moved around from there.

SPEAKER_01 2:54

Uh I didn't know you did a grad assistant at Texas Tech. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:57

So grad assistant at Texas Tech. Then I was at Holy Cross for one year in Massachusetts. Um yeah, that was a journey. Just for 10 months I was out there, and then I was back at UMBC for two years, and then at APY. Then I was the head coach at UND for six, and then I've been at Butler the last four.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Man, coaching will take you from one side of the country to the other side of the country. You know, and you really got to be flexible. And uh, I know your husband's very supportive. He also coached the game, you know what I mean? So uh Pastor now, you know.

SPEAKER_04 3:25

So Pastor Andrew Woodrich. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:27

Shout out to church, shout him out, shout out Diversity Church North. Diversity Church North or 71st in Keystone.

SPEAKER_04 3:32

72nd in Keystone.

SPEAKER_01 3:33

72nd, my bad, 72nd in Keystone. Okay, so check him out, check him out. Um, no, that's amazing. Uh, but the game will it'll take you around the world, you know. Uh if you if you're blessed to have that opportunity to do so. Uh okay, so so tell me who was the coach in your life to kind of push you into coaching because somebody always has an impact on us to make us more okay, I'm done playing, I want to impart now into the game.

SPEAKER_04 3:55

Well, it's interesting because my dad coached for 40 years in high school. Oh he coached on the men's side, he coached my one of my older brothers, um, and then we moved from Laporte, Indiana to Avon, Indiana, and he coached me and my sister there. Gotcha. Um, my dad loved he loves basketball. Uh he was passionate, he's a very good teacher. And a lot of my teaching skills comes from my come from my dad. Um, but I went to college, I was like, do I want to coach? I don't know. So I like double majored, do I want to do this, do I want to do that? Um, but then I got an opportunity to be a graduate assistant and I loved it. Okay. Because I loved the game and I was able to impact young women.

SPEAKER_01 4:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:34

And so I kind of put two passions together. Yes. Um, and I really started my faith walk a lot when I was at Texas Tech.

SPEAKER_02 4:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 4:41

So um I gave my life to Christ in eighth grade, but it there was just so many years I was trying to figure it out. Yes. Um, college, basketball's your identity, like you gotta be this and you gotta be that, and then when it's taken away from you and you're not playing anymore, you're like, okay, what now? It fills that void. Yeah, so I had some really good mentors there that kind of steered me um to wow, what am I doing with my life? Is there an impact? Am I making disciples? Um I found a spiritual mentor who was very helpful for me. Okay, and so then I was like, wow, I want to do this, let's let's do this. Um so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:15

That's awesome. That's awesome. I mean, we love the game, we love basketball. It is uh a big part of you know what we do. But you said identity, and finding our identity outside of the game is so important that so that basketball doesn't become an idol, you know what I mean? And and and I've I've shared this with you that you know, as coach especially, you work so hard, you put in so much time that for me, really God really convicted me that basketball became my idol. And I was spending more time with the game and that ball and the film than I was with him. So I I had to, you know, accept that conviction and and and embrace it like, okay, Lord, yeah, um, you I say coaching is my ministry, and you ask me where am I in your ministry. That's good. So um I listened. And so because of him, I've been blessed with so many opportunities. You know, and now just with a better uh path forward and the clarity of you know, the game is what we're using to reach people by not preaching to them but how we treat them and how we live.

SPEAKER_02 6:15

Right.

SPEAKER_01 6:16

So uh I feel you on that, you know, having the game taken away from you and then now looking for who you are in the game, you know, uh led you to coaching. But along your coaching journey, you went a lot of places. I'm sure you impacted a lot of people.

SPEAKER_04 6:30

I hope so. I hope so. Um yeah, and even in coaching, right? Like you go up and down, and being an assistant and a head coach are two different worlds. And so, like, as a head coach, like your players win and the head coach loses. So, and when you're doing really well, everyone in the hallway wants to talk to you, and when you've lost a couple games, they don't know what to say.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

And you're not sleeping.

SPEAKER_04 6:53

And I'm not sleeping, and I'm not sleeping either.

SPEAKER_01 6:55

I understand.

SPEAKER_04 6:55

But I haven't changed. I'm still the same, I'm still trying to do the same things. Yeah, um, but people might treat you differently or look at you differently, and and so that's where your foundation in Jesus really has to be solid, right? Yes, yes, like who you are in him. Yeah, um, and the Bible tells us like we're free, we're adopted, we're forgiven for all of these things, right? Um, and that's what you have to cling to because society wants to tell you that you're supposed to be this and look like this and act like this.

SPEAKER_01 7:20

Or be perfect.

SPEAKER_04 7:21

And be perfect, right?

SPEAKER_01 7:22

And let's be clear, we are all sinners. That's all right. But thank God for his grace that when we do miss the mark, when we do disappoint him or sin against him, he's forgiven us because we've accepted him in our life. That's right. And being a Christian isn't being perfect, it's about surrendering to his will and actively trying to live for him. That's right. You know, uh so I mean that that in itself, the conviction part, I've learned to embrace more than anything else because I would rather be right in his eyes than right in man's eyes. Um, you're not gonna please men. You're not gonna please men or women or you know, anybody else in this world. I'm just trying to live right for him. And if I do right by him, I'm gonna do right by the children that I serve. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 8:05

That's good.

SPEAKER_01 8:06

So, okay, now moving on from college coaching. I know you're into uh uh completely brand new space.

SPEAKER_04 8:12

Completely brand new space.

SPEAKER_01 8:13

Completely brand new space. Come on, fill us in, coach. What's going on with you?

SPEAKER_04 8:16

Um, well, I can't really say yet, but I have taken a position uh to be an assistant athlete director somewhere. Okay, that's awesome. Um yeah, I'm excited about it just to be in a different space, but still impact coaches, yes, impact players. Um, but I'm able to be at the church more.

SPEAKER_01 8:31

Yes, and you're and you're not just at the church, you're a first lady.

SPEAKER_04 8:33

Yes, yes, you're a first line.

SPEAKER_01 8:35

Hey, that's a big that's a that's ministry as well. It's different.

SPEAKER_04 8:40

Yes, yes, it's um another level of heaviness. Yeah, I don't want to say stress, because I I I don't feel stress, I don't feel anxiety, but it's a heaviness, right? Because you're people are people are hurting. Yes, people need things. Um and my husband wears a lot of heaviness, he's very compassionate, and so to see him go through some things sometimes, it's just hard. And um I had no idea how to be a first lady. I didn't know what like neither of us were in vocational ministry, right? Yeah, we're on fire for the Lord, um, and that's all we knew is we wanted to love on people. But the biggest thing I've learned is just to pray, yeah, yeah. How to pray in intentionally and fervently, and like that's the first thing, right? Not asking for things, but praying is just like. A lot of times that's the last thing we do. Yeah, so my prayer life is just you know exploded. Yeah, but because of that, man, God moves mountains. Yes, and he's been faithful, and he's been faithful in this uh last two months where what do I do when I grow up? Basically, I always say, What do I want to do now when I grow up? Um so many different things, and now I'm coaching coaches and I'm doing leadership consulting and uh doing more things at the church, and it's just been so good to see um opportunities open up, but not only just for what I could do, but just for kingdom, kingdom work.

SPEAKER_01 9:53

Kingdom work, yes.

SPEAKER_04 9:54

And just to share the gospel more. I feel more free to talk more about the gospel. I don't know if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

No, look, like Jesus asked his disciples to leave everything, right? Pick up your cross and follow me, and you said the word heavy. That is the cross that you are carrying as you follow him. It's heavy, it's heavy, it's heavy. I mean, and and like you said, you know, the church, you know, there are people that you are serving, but that community is so necessary. And I think it's necessary for coaches too. So you coach and coaches, having that community like what we're trying to build at Coach of Minutia, is super big because number one, you're not gonna be able to carry the cross that you're carrying alone. Jesus didn't carry his cross to Calvary by Himself. They pulled a man from the crowd, the Romans did, Simon, to help him carry that cross. So if the Son of Man, if our Lord and Savior, if God in the flesh needed help to carry the cross so he could die for our sins, I'm just Nick, coach. I don't know about you. I need a whole lot of help with this cross I'm carrying. So the prayer that you were talking about, that relationship, that intimacy, that conversation with him to get direction of how to move, how to, when to be still, when to go, when to apply for a job, when to say no to an opportunity.

SPEAKER_04 11:09

If you don't have that, well, and I think as coaches, a lot of times too, like we want to make decisions, right? And we're talking to all these leaders and coaching friends and all these things. But at the end of the day, your discernment and your wisdom comes from the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_02 11:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:24

So if we're not in tune with that, if we're not getting our direction from that, and it's not gonna look like the world. No, it's not gonna look like everybody else. No, but in the Bible, it tells us we want wisdom. Yes, we don't want all these things because of wisdom we're able to accomplish those things. And I see so many coaches like they're missing that part, they're missing that discernment, they're missing that wisdom of like when to speak, when not to speak, when to discipline, when not to discipline. Because you need both, right?

SPEAKER_01 11:49

Yeah, and so um or just accountability, right? Amen. We're trying to hold our kids accountable, but are we being accountable as coaches?

SPEAKER_04 11:57

Oh, how does it be?

SPEAKER_01 11:58

Am I practicing what I'm preaching?

SPEAKER_04 12:00

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

Or is it just a facade? Yeah. If it's just surface deep. If I'm here's an example, I'm telling you to be on time to practice as a player, but I'm late. All the time. So I'm telling you, this needs to be a priority for you, but you're not ever at everything either. So it's not a the kids are impasse. They see through the fickle. So if you're not living what you're preaching, it's hard to have a positive impact on a group of young people that are supposed to be following you and using your wisdom in their time of adversity and stress and pressure and need in the middle of a game, if they don't trust that you are all in not just what you say, but how you live.

SPEAKER_04 12:39

And how you respond. How you respond, I think, is a big thing. Because a lot of times as coaches re-react to things instead of respond.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

Oh, yeah, guilty.

SPEAKER_04 12:47

If you're not amen. Guilty, if you're not in that solid foundation, if you're not prepared to handle those situations, then because I could say 18 years ago, I would react a lot differently than I would respond now.

SPEAKER_02 13:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:02

Just with all these experiences I've had and just uh God honing that and honing that leadership ability. But I think you're totally right. Like you have to make sure your foundation is set.

SPEAKER_01 13:13

Well, you you you just last season on uh coaching music, I was talking to another coach, uh, her name's Gabby Ritchie. Uh actually, I'm not Gabby Ritchie, I'm sorry, that's a former player, Gabrielle Smith. Say a lot of Gabbies in my life. Sorry. Gabby. A lot of Gabbies. Congratulations, coach, uh, getting the head coaching job at Kokomo High School. She just moved from Richmond High School. She's from Kokomo High School, so that's her alma mater. And she gets to go back and impart into that community. She's gonna do amazing things there. But I was having a conversation with her asking her, do you prepare yourself? Do you prepare your players for the different versions of yourself as a coach?

SPEAKER_03 13:45

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

Like, I'm this way in practice, I'm this way when we're off the court, I'm this way when it's a pressure game, I'm this way when I'm focused and serious. And I got convicted to not, I shouldn't change. If we serve a God who doesn't change, the Bible says he doesn't change. Oh, he's yesterday today and forevermore. And so I I if I'm trying to be Christ-like, then I can't be different with her. I have to give her a level of consistency in her in my program, because it might be the only structure of consistency she has in her life.

SPEAKER_04 14:12

Ever has. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 14:13

And when people see you as a follower of Christ, when people see me as a follower of Christ, they should see that consistency of who we are, no matter what the situation you said 18 years ago, I would have reacted, and now I would respond.

SPEAKER_04 14:28

Two different words, two different, and yeah, two different meanings.

SPEAKER_01 14:32

And that's that's the growth, not just from your experience as a coach, but in your faith walk.

SPEAKER_04 14:36

Yeah. And with that too, like, yes, I reacted, but as young coaches, I just want to encourage you to like give yourself some grace. Yeah. Right? We're learning and we're growing, and but you have to be able to have that self-awareness to be like, okay, that was not right. Yes. Give myself some grace, and you know, I need to get better. And you need to get better. So many people say, okay, that was wrong, but then they don't change. Right. There needs to be conviction. There's no conviction, there's no transformation.

SPEAKER_01 15:00

Yeah, I I I found myself this year after after really being convicted by him, going in and redoing what we're doing as a staff, you know. And I went to my staff and said, hey, anything that has happened in the past year or two, it's not your fault. It's my fault. Because I'm the leader. So, so because whatever happened in the past that may have made us not be on the same page, may not have made things look the way they need to be, or what we may have missed the mark, it's not your fault, it's my fault. You know what I mean? Give yourself grace because it's on me. I've been convicted of it. So now we have to change how we move forward. We have to do A, B, and C to make sure that we're serving the kids the right way. And I and some people accepted that and some people push back, and that's okay. But I have to, first of all, ask for forgiveness because I was wrong. Okay, acknowledge that I need God and how we're moving forward, and then stay on course, you know. No matter what happens, stay, stay, stay with him, and everything else will work out fine. That's so good. So, you know, he may not have me coaching forever. You know, I gotta, I'm I'm I might be in a in a pulpit like your husband, because I know your husband was a coach, you know. You know, my wife don't want to hear that, but you know, it I'm gonna do what he tells me to do. I I have to. Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, you know, and I'm not looking for it right now, I'm looking forward later on in my heavenly bank account, you know, when we worship and having a good time on a new earth, you know. So, okay, so tell me this, coach, yeah. If you could go back and tell your old self, your your young coach at Holy Cross. Yeah. You said Afro Texas Tech, Holy Cross, right? Young coach at Holy Cross, or or first year head coach at UND. What are three things you tell? What I mean, you're looking at yourself in that time. What are three things you're telling yourself to help you cultivate the environment that can be successful, not just on the court, but in his eyes too?

SPEAKER_04 16:56

Um I think as a head coach, I would have given myself a little bit more grace early on. I think I put a lot of pressure on myself early, and I was a young head coach, I was only 30.

SPEAKER_01 17:09

Well, I know you, you're kind of a perfectionist, right, coach?

SPEAKER_04 17:11

Yeah, so I think I would have given myself a little bit more grace early, but also like what I said, what I've learned over the past 10 years is the wisdom and discernment from the Holy Spirit instead of all these other people. Well, this person was successful, they did this, and this person was successful, they did that. But at the end of the day, I serve one God, and He put me in that position. He's gonna, you know, direct me where I need to go.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

Never leave you or forsake you.

SPEAKER_04 17:33

No, and I wanted to be a head coach because I wanted to do it differently. Yeah. Like I wanted people to, I wanted to be able to hold people accountable but love them through it. Um, and not everyone loved that either, right? Like you're not going to please everybody.

SPEAKER_01 17:46

It's not there is no easy part about following his will. We have to suffer well through some things that he has asked us to do because growth is uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_04 17:57

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

And if we're gonna continue to grow and following him, we're gonna be in some uncomfortable moments. But will you trust him through through all of it? Faith, the opposite of faith is not fear, the opposite of faith is uncertainty. So doing something he asks you to do, not knowing what the outcome is, is faith every single time when we draw a play.

SPEAKER_02 18:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:18

Or or we we have to hire a new coach or let somebody go. It's just walking on faith. And it is uncomfortable. It is uncomfortable, it is scary at times. But we just remember we're not alone.

SPEAKER_04 18:30

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 18:31

You said he's he gave you the opportunity, he won't leave you, leave you alone. So that's two things. Give me a third. Give me a third.

SPEAKER_04 18:36

The third would be when I was even younger. Like I worked, someone told me you gotta work half a day if you want to be successful. Seven to seven. Like you gotta be in the office like 12 hours a day. And I felt like in my 20s it was just grind, and I had to keep up with the Joneses, and yeah, they're in the office, I'm in the office, and I just felt like I did a lot of wasted stuff. Um, but God doesn't waste time, right? So I learned so much basketball in that time. I made so many connections, I watched the game. I so when I got older, it was easy for me to watch film. I was more efficient with it because of that. Yeah, but when I was young, it was it was I was very almost uber focused on a lot of things. Um maybe that's why I got married older, I'm not really sure, but but I just think my younger self, like, work hard, but work smart.

SPEAKER_01 19:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:27

I think I would have told my younger self that.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:29

Okay, I got you. I got you. Make sure you're working smart because sometimes you're just doing what everybody else is doing, but it's not efficient.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

Yeah. Or it's not for you. It's not for you. It's not for you. Uh I we you know, we we as a high school coach, we watch a lot of you know, you guys in college, you know, and we see actions and plays and things that we really, really like. And obviously, as a coach, you pull from different places for what works with your hopefully for what works with your kids.

SPEAKER_04 19:54

The games are already invented, right?

SPEAKER_01 19:55

You know, so okay, I know I have this type of athletes, I know I have this level of IQ, we can do that, or I really like that, you know. You should be coaching to the athletes that you have, my personal opinion, not to the system that you want, unless you're able to recruit.

SPEAKER_04 20:10

Right.

SPEAKER_01 20:10

We're not able to recruit. Well, we're not supposed to. But um That's another podcast. That's a whole nother conversation. But you know, um, but okay, so now I'm pulling from Butler. You know, I'm pulling from UND, and I'm like, hey, I like this action, let's do this with our group, but that doesn't work for your group because like you said, you're all over. I felt like at times, and not not not now where I am at the school that I am now, but in the past at other places, I saw so many things that I like, like a piece of candy. And I'm just all over the place. And there's no foundation for my kids. And so now I've I've really like, okay, cool. This is the conceptual that is gonna help this group of kids get up get to the next level and be able to play at the next level because now, I mean, you know, in recruiting, let's let's let's let's let's go to the recruiting real quick because we need to have a real conversation about recruiting. High school players are probably sixth on the list for recruiting. You gotta recruit your own roster first.

SPEAKER_04 21:06

Yeah, yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 21:07

You gotta recruit the portal division one. Then you're looking at the portal division two and three.

SPEAKER_04 21:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

You put two by itself.

SPEAKER_04 21:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

So okay, two is by itself. So we're now seven. Okay, then you got three, then you go junior college.

SPEAKER_04 21:21

Right? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

Not really NAIA, or you put them together. NAIA is.

SPEAKER_04 21:24

The list just gets smaller, right? Like in division one, you have a bigger list. Division two, you got a smaller list, and then you go NAIA, like your top five players will probably get plucked to come up. It's just a smaller list as you go down.

SPEAKER_01 21:36

So then a lot a lot of coaches are going overseas. I just heard LSU's uh men's coach say they have one American player on this roster. Everybody else is from overseas. One? Because they want to play Europe European style ball. They're gonna get to the ball. And those kids are older. And they're older, bigger, faster, right? We haven't even gotten to high school yet. And you want to talk about the top kids in high school that are freshmen and gonna actually come in and be on a roster. They're probably a circuit kid, an e-i uh EYBO kid, uh uh SSB kid, you know, uh Unarmor kid that's on the one of those top 17 U teams, right? So, what about everybody else?

SPEAKER_04 22:11

Like, well, what are your options? I can say this now because I'm not employed by any university.

SPEAKER_01 22:15

Okay, yeah, talk to let's talk to you.

SPEAKER_04 22:16

If you have a scholarship offer and you like the school and it the school has to fit, right? Like, I'm so tired of the shiny, the brand, like I gotta get the names, I gotta have the graphic with 30 offers on it. Preach to them. Tell them. I've been at a school where the graphic was on a page and I said, I don't think we've offered this kid.

SPEAKER_01 22:33

What? Wait a minute.

SPEAKER_04 22:35

I don't think we offered this kid. Um, but they just that's that's what they want to do and they want to put it on there. And again, it it's not bad within itself. You want to celebrate that, right? It I'm not saying posting all your offers is a bad thing, but what I'm saying is don't buy the Jordan that's nice and shiny without trying it on. If it fits and you like it, take the offer.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 22:55

Take the offer because yes, people are some men's schools are outwardly saying, I am not recruiting high school kids.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

Yes, they're they're literally saying that.

SPEAKER_04 23:05

They're literally saying that. So it's like, and then you got your lower, your mid-majors that are kind of like, well, come play for us, get your stats up, and then you can go your last two years and go make some more money. I mean, that's just what the reality of it is now.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

But the I'm gonna be honest with you, can I be 100% with you? People say tell you the truth, right? Yeah, don't lie to me, tell you the truth. But when you tell them that your kid probably needs to go to junior college, your kid is not a division one player, not a power four player, and this this is the level, this is who we should target at her list that she's giving you, they get mad at you as a high school coach. They take their kid and they transfer to another school.

SPEAKER_04 23:41

Yeah, that makes me sad. Because if you want to play college basketball, you can play college basketball. Yes. Like I coached at Division II, great basketball, like high level basketball.

SPEAKER_02 23:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 23:55

It just, if you want to play college basketball, there is a place for you you can play. Yeah, you just have to be willing. And the other thing is too, is to be self-aware enough. So my dad, I was self-aware enough. I got a couple P4 letters.

SPEAKER_01 24:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:10

When I'm 16 years old, I'm thinking, wow, like I'm, you know, getting letters from and my dad's like, they're not trying to recruit you, trying to get you to go to elite camp.

SPEAKER_00 24:21

Yeah, you try they try to get you to come to that elite camp, come to the team camp so we can get a little bit of money.

SPEAKER_04 24:26

And so I went to a school where we actually watched film and he was like, You can play in their system. My head coach ran Princeton. Um, and I could shoot it, and I was smart.

SPEAKER_03 24:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:37

And I fit in, like, right?

SPEAKER_03 24:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:39

And uh I actually ran Princeton. I've done many clinics on chin offense, point series, whatever. If you need just call me, I got all everything.

SPEAKER_01 24:48

Well, I'm I'm hoping you get in the Discord. Yeah, we got a coach of Medisha Discord and you can put it right in the Discord. It'd be free for any any coach to hop in the Discord. We'll put a link below uh on the Discord so you can get some some great coaching, not just some.

SPEAKER_04 25:00

I love it. I mean transition stuff, like that is that is me to a T. I love it. But my college coach was really smart with that, and I learned so much from him. And uh, but I went to a place where and I didn't play much my freshman year. Like, I didn't play much. Like, I went in there and I played early. I think I started a couple games by conference play. I didn't play much. And I called my dad and I was like, dad, and I had a senior guard who was six foot, and he goes, She's better than you. How many fathers are out there saying, like, you either fight or like you're just gonna be on the bench?

SPEAKER_01 25:38

Folks, they're going in the transfer portal.

SPEAKER_04 25:40

They're going well by my senior year. I was an all-conference player. We made the NCAA tournament. I was playing a couple 40-minute games. I don't recommend that to anybody. But like, yeah, I didn't play. Six man started playing 40 minutes a game. I got better, I pushed through.

SPEAKER_02 25:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:57

But like that adversity really helped me. It allowed me to get through things as an adult. Um, to really lean on the Lord and like, but like that just and again, transferring it's in itself, some people, it's better.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

Yes, some people.

SPEAKER_04 26:11

I'm not saying transferring is bad.

SPEAKER_01 26:13

Like, but think about there were 1300, over 1,300 women in the portal this year.

SPEAKER_04 26:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

What they don't tell you is how many people didn't get picked up.

SPEAKER_04 26:23

Yeah, there's a lot that don't get picked up.

SPEAKER_01 26:24

There's a lot that don't get picked up.

SPEAKER_04 26:25

Yeah, and some go into better situations, and that's good. And some people have great experiences and that's great. Um but we just have to make sure that we're being wise about it. Yes. And there's discernment about it.

SPEAKER_01 26:36

And who you're taking this in who you're taking this uh advice from to leave or stay. And is a situation you're in a bad situation, or is it just a level of adversity that you need to overcome? And my fear is that we're not allowing our kids to see adversity and embrace it as grow an opportunity to grow. Like you said, you grew into a conference player, you know? Because success in your mind and actual success in where you are, it might look two different ways. That's right. I might be a senior and dream that I'm gonna be uh, I know I'm gonna start because I I'm good enough. I I know where I land on the team, but I'm gonna be the leading scorer, and I'm gonna have all these accolades, and we're gonna have a winning season, and the locker room is gonna be good. And if maybe four out of five of those things happen, you have a great locker room, you have a winning season, you're you're you're ranked, but you're not playing the star role. You're a support player, but you got all the great locker room is great, you got all those other four things, but you didn't get the fifth one. Does that mean you had a bad season? To these kids, that's a bad season.

SPEAKER_04 27:34

Yeah, and it's it's funny too, because uh stepping away from coaching, a lot of former players have come out of the woodwork. I still talk to a lot of former players. Some former players use my guest bedroom when they're in town. Um but when I I literally sat one day and was like, okay, how many of them were 20-point game scores? Yeah, how many of them were all conference players? It's all over the game. Some didn't play. Yeah, some played a lot, but my love for them and like wanting them to be great women and to love, like, it had nothing to do with and some of them transferred.

SPEAKER_00 28:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:05

That I still talked to.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

You still gotta love them.

SPEAKER_04 28:07

And I still love them. And some of them are still in my life, and they transferred. Because that's not some of them it was better for them, some of them it wasn't. And so it's just it's all over.

SPEAKER_01 28:16

Um and if you're a real coach, you don't take that personal.

SPEAKER_04 28:19

You don't take it like you can't anymore. No, you can't anymore. Because when when I played, you didn't transfer. Transfer, people who transferred when I played, well, there was different rules, right? You had to sit out a year, right? It was different, right? Um, there would be probably more if there wasn't as many rules. But like you either went down a level or you wanted to go closer to home. Those are the people that transferred.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:39

But now when it's it's just uh I guess it's just easier.

SPEAKER_01 28:43

It's easier. There it's it's a monetary incentive for some for some people.

SPEAKER_04 28:47

Like I think about my own boys, like if they could go somewhere and make X amount more money, yeah, why would you and it's a good situation, right? Like I don't want to leave a good situation to go to a bad one.

SPEAKER_01 28:57

Right.

SPEAKER_04 28:58

Like to me, that's not worth it. Yeah. But if you're leaving a situation to go to a good situation, the monetary value. I mean, there's just so much to it. There's so much gray. Um yeah, it's just it's hard to navigate.

SPEAKER_01 29:10

It is, it's hard to, you know, but like even at the high school level, we have our 30-day rule where a kid can leave.

SPEAKER_04 29:16

Do you have to sit out 30 days?

SPEAKER_01 29:17

Yeah, sit out 30 days. Uh so let's just say a kid leaves and sit out 30 days uh for a fall sport, and then winter sport comes swimming, whatever. They can swim the whole season, then they can transfer back to the school that they came from and sit out 30 days and then do a spring sport. That's what we're dealing with now. Now you only get one of those, you know what I mean? That's what we're dealing with now. But what's happening is okay, people are taking that opportunity, transferring, leaving, and then going to a third transfer.

SPEAKER_04 29:45

How do you do that?

SPEAKER_01 29:46

You have to fight for like an old trans, you can still do it with the old transfer rules. So there's really no hard cap. Some people roll the dice, and some people have to lose a lose a year. And all because of adverse because it's not money in high school, it's it's adversity. Um our team isn't good enough to beat this team, or and you're the best player on this team, though. Okay. Um our team um doesn't have the same athletes as they do. You know, um our team schedule is too hard. I think we're playing too hard of a schedule. No, like you, if you want to play in college, this is my personal belief. If you want to be known as the best, you gotta play against the best and beat the best when you can. You can't go play people who can't chew gum and walk and say that I'm a division and the city.

SPEAKER_04 30:35

I've never seen growth when people are just comfortable.

SPEAKER_01 30:37

So, so for my example, I go to one of the smaller, I coach at one of the smaller 4-A schools in the state. We're listed as 1800 kids, but uh uh a nice size of that number is an alternative school. Okay, so we don't, those kids can't play ball. So we're a smaller school, and the schools that we play have four and five thousand kids.

SPEAKER_04 30:55

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 30:55

So they have a bigger pool of athletes to pull from. But we don't shy away from that competition. We're gonna play those schools because I believe that you have the talent to do so if you put the work in and you love the game the right way. That's right. Some people don't like that.

SPEAKER_03 31:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 31:10

So they'll leave. And this happened before in the past. Not it hasn't recently, but it happened before in the past. And you still have to, like you said, you still have to love that kid. Still talk to those kids, still help those kids when they're in college now and they need to go to another school, or my coach just quit two weeks before the season and they're calling me and they're crying, and I'm like, don't worry, you know, stick it out for right now, we'll figure it out at the end of the year. You gotta love them.

SPEAKER_04 31:31

You do, we absolutely do.

SPEAKER_01 31:33

Yeah, yeah. So, well, coach, um, if you could um this is a new season for us. This is season two for us. In season one, we do.

SPEAKER_04 31:42

Oh, congrats, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 31:43

Yeah, I'm very blessed to have some great people come on. Uh Mark Mitchell from Indiana State, uh, uh some bunch of high school coaches, uh, Jason Pruitt, he was all assistant at associate head coach in Indiana State. Come and talk about the games, a couple doctors, you know. So, but um we always leave a question for the next coach. Okay, or the next guest that comes on. So if you had to ask them a question for them to answer for the community, what would it be? Here's an example. Um Jason Pruitt, probably one of my favorite questions. He said, What are you doing to ensure that your roster looks like the kingdom of heaven?

SPEAKER_04 32:26

That's a good answer. I don't know. That was his question. Yeah, that's such a good answer.

SPEAKER_01 32:31

So that's what he it was probably my favorite question.

SPEAKER_04 32:33

Yeah, that's so good. Um, so a question for the next coach. Yeah. I guess a good one would be what are you doing yourself to make sure that you're representing the kingdom of heaven to your roster?

SPEAKER_01 32:48

Ooh.

SPEAKER_04 32:50

So some self-accountability.

SPEAKER_01 32:51

Coach, that's huge.

SPEAKER_04 32:52

Some self-accountability. We have to ask ourselves that, right?

SPEAKER_01 32:55

Looking in the mirror as a coach is just as hard as looking in the mirror as a parent or anything else. Because we're talking about someone else's child. They are trusting you to be your best for her.

SPEAKER_04 33:07

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 33:08

Coaching is giving the best of oneself to someone else's child without asking for anything in return. It is a service. And if you don't approach it that way, you hurt children. So having the accountability is am I giving my best to this kid? That's a that's heat. I like that question. Okay, that might be my favorite question for season two right now, okay? All right, Jason, I guess. For season two. Well, thank you for coming. Thank you so much for coming. Uh men is so good talking. Um, we I told you before, we were circled each other for years. Uh, my wife worked at UND while you were at UND. Uh, I trained one of the players that you coached. Um, but we weren't supposed to meet until now. And uh I'm I'm excited to see what God has in store because I know this won't be our only conversation. This was fun. Thank you so much. This was fun. So thank you for joining us. Uh, we hope to see you in the next episode. God bless you. Have a good one.