Everybody Wants to Be the Star — But Can You Be a Teammate?

Coach Justin Bennett of Noblesville High School joins the show to discuss coaching as service, building culture, managing expectations, and why every player must learn how to be a teammate before becoming the star.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:11

Welcome to Coach and Minutia. I'm your host, Nick Carruthers, and I'm blessed today to uh have with us uh our new head girls basketball coach at Novisville High School, Justin Bennett. Coach, how are you, man? Good to see you, man. Good to have you, man. Welcome to the studio. Yes, sir. Uh man, excited to uh see what you're gonna do up there, you know. I've known you for a long time now. You mean when I first got in the mid-state conference, you were at Greenwood. I was at Greenwood. You was at Greenwood, and uh it's not very few of it's very few of us in that area, so it was good to see you talk to you. It was always good competition. Yep, you know what I'm saying? We had some buzzer beater games, you know what I'm saying? Some good energy, man. So congratulations, Coach. We man, we want to celebrate you, you know, as at uh out there in Noblesville, man. That's a it's a special place to be, man. They got championship history. You know how you liking it?

SPEAKER_00 1:01

I'm enjoying it so far, man. Big time pedigree out there in Noblesville. Got a chance to meet the kids, a lot of the parents, man. Everything is well right now. Just looking forward to this special opportunity, bro. Good, good.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

And we're liking day two of June. So you had a couple workouts?

SPEAKER_00 1:14

Couple workouts. We started on Monday. Didn't work out today because they got graduation. Uh, but we'll get back at it tomorrow, Thursday, and maybe a scrimmage on Friday, and then get ready for the rest of the summer of June.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Okay, okay. Sounds good, man. Speaking of graduation, you I know you just have a son just graduating, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

And he's going to play ball, correct? Going to play ball, Anderson University. So they get Anderson University, you're getting a good one, I guess. Okay, getting a good one, okay. He's ready.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

It's hard to be a child of a coach, especially if you play a sport that the coach coaches.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

I will say this. I I see a lot of it on the outside, and uh what I love is these last two years be able to coach my son. You know, I've coached him in the summer, and that's a little bit different than coaching him in high school. But one thing we promised each other is like when we leave the gym, we don't talk about basketball at all. Ooh, ooh, we can you can you tell the people that When we leave the gym as a father, because I I want to cherish my relationship with my kid, even my son, when we walk out of that gym, we don't talk about basketball at all.

SPEAKER_04 2:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

Now, whatever I gotta say, I say it before when we were in between those lines. But when we walk outside and we get outside of that gym, it's a hug, it's dad. I don't talk no basketball, don't say you should have done this. We are a father and son.

SPEAKER_01 2:25

I mean, I find that that's a that's a very hard thing for coaches that coach their kid to do. Yeah. Because you, because you want to push your kid, because you want the best for your kid, because maybe you played the sport or play sports and make sure your kid navigates things maybe differently than you did as a player. Right. You know what I mean? You might be a little too hard on them sometimes, or it's hard to turn that switch off because it's in your mind too, just like it's in their mind.

SPEAKER_00 2:50

There's a saying that comparison is the thief of joy. Oh, say it again. Comparison is the thief of joy. And Coach uh Stacy Miss will say that all the time. We talk about this, and you know, the one thing I will say is like, you know, this is his journey. Yeah. I live my life, I've done what I wanted to do. My job is to help him navigate where he wants to go.

SPEAKER_02 3:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:08

And that's the way I got to keep it in perspective. Yeah. You know, I want him to be successful. This ain't me living through him. I want him to be successful. Yeah, we we call it the disease of left and right.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

When you you're so focused on everything else that's happening, you don't see the blessing that's right in front of you. Not everybody's able to be coached by their parents. You're right. To have them in their gym, to have them pushing them, but if you break that relationship trying to push them too hard, you ruin it all, and then you start looking, oh, this kid got that, or this kid got that, or I wish, I wish my dad wasn't on me so much, or I wish my kid did this better. Right. You forget that this dynamic is special.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

I tell you what, man, growing up without a father, you know, I was raised by my mom and my grandmother, and you know, they they taught me right and wrong. They taught me how to be empathetic, they taught me how to believe in folks, and man, I listen, I treasure uh the relationship with my kids. Yeah. And there is nothing I would do to mess that up. So if it meant me coaching him, yeah, I'm gonna be tough on him, but I also understand, like, I'm dad.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

And this is his journey. So my job is to help him navigate, man. That's it.

SPEAKER_01 4:08

Yeah, I got a little behind the scenes on y'all relationship, man, because my wife and you and you at the time worked in the same building, man. At graduation, you got to hand your son his diploma.

SPEAKER_00 4:19

So, you know, my oldest son, who when he graduated from Greenwood, Greenwood has a tradition of where every student that graduates has to pick a person of significance to hand them their diploma.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

What? That's special.

SPEAKER_00 4:30

I like that. I I think that is amazing. So, you know, there when I was working in the Greenwood system, there were years where I may have handed out 10 diplomas, but the one that was special to me was my oldest son. Yeah, yeah. And I got to hand him this diploma. And so Jace graduating, uh, I don't he didn't know I was gonna be able to do that. And uh they put me up in the front row and let me hand him his diploma, man. And for me to be able to do that to my my last and my youngest son, that was special. Yeah, that was special. Yeah, I might have cried.

SPEAKER_01 4:56

Me.

SPEAKER_00 4:57

I cried when I left. Yeah, yeah. I did. I didn't do it on stage, but you know, it was. I don't care what nobody thinks. That's my boy. That's my boy, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, he he even hugged me, man. I handed it to him. He gave me a hug in front of everybody. So, you know. Yeah, that's big. That's big time. That's big. It made me happy.

SPEAKER_01 5:11

That shows his maturity too. It does. That shows his maturity too. Yeah, man. Well, man, shout out to you, man. I know you're gonna do good things, you know. You got a good father, you know. Uh, keep that relationship, you know, with your dad. You know, it's uh it's it's I'm like you. I didn't grow up with my father in my life in a positive way. Gotcha. He was around, there were things that happened, right, but it wasn't the best. I feel that. And so anytime you have any child with their parent dynamic, but especially a son with a father, yeah, special, special. You bless, young man. You blessed. So, okay, coach, so so tell me this. Let's let's get into it, coach. Okay, tell me about your love for the game, man. How'd you find it? Where you from, coach? Give me your story, man.

SPEAKER_00 5:53

Well, I'm from uh Decatur, Illinois, just a little south of Chicago, grew up there uh all my life. And man, you know, I just you know, I was a track athlete. I love football, and uh, I got asked to play some basketball because I was a little taller than everybody else. You always get it.

SPEAKER_01 6:07

You got drafted, you got that hallway draft, come play because you're tall, young fella.

SPEAKER_00 6:13

And uh I for me, I just considered myself as an athlete. I I wanted to be really good at everything I did, and uh I ended up falling in love with basketball, and uh, I just remember watching being able to watch Scottie Pippen and Grant Hill.

SPEAKER_01 6:25

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:25

And I wanted to be a big guard like them. So by the time I got to high school, you know, I'm 6'3 or whatever, and I'm you know, I want to handle the ball and shoot it a little bit. Yeah. And uh, man, it just went on from there. So I, you know, once I once I got in the gym, I stayed in the gym as much as I possibly could. And when I left the gym for practice, I went straight to the park and played for five, six more hours, and I just kept trying to get better, man. So uh, you know, end up going to Greenville University just outside of St. Louis, spent a little time overseas, came back here, played some ABA, and got into coaching, man.

SPEAKER_01 6:57

So that's why we get along so well. I don't know if you knew this, but I'm from the south side of Chicago. Okay. From 123rd and Hosted, so I'm right in the hunts. Yeah, you know what I mean? When they call it Shirack now, you know. But um, man, that that is uh a different place to grow up in. Right. I always tell my kids, you know, y'all, y'all don't have to grow up as fast as we had to grow up, you know what I mean? So you know, uh, but it that what we had to go through living in Decatur, living in Chicago, right, it helped, like you said, kind of build us, build that callus a little bit, right? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 7:28

I'm the oldest of four. Okay. I had to be the man of the house. Yes. I had to grow up real fast. And you know, uh my mom was, you know, even though she was doing it on her own, she was super strict and she always made sure we had what we needed, and she had standards, yes, no matter what. And the one thing I always tried to make sure I did was never disrespect my mom because she was giving me everything she had. Yeah. And so to this day, you know, I still feel like I'm that 13, 14-year-old kid around my mom and grandma, and it's because I have a tremendous amount of respect for the way they raise me, man. And so uh I wouldn't change it for the world.

SPEAKER_01 8:00

That's awesome, man. That's awesome, man. Yeah, my mom, same, same look, I got the same love for my mom that you got for yours, man. Special lady, man. So you got to play some Pro Bowl a little bit, Coach. Okay, got that experience. So, how does that translate to you know helping these kids who want to get to the next level, right? Who have this desire to um play for the school that they like, right, uh, or the coaching staff that they like, but the dynamic has changed so much. So, how are you navigating that for your for your students?

SPEAKER_00 8:31

You know, when I think when we grew up, you know, it wasn't all this talk about trying to be D1 or are you D1. I think you just wanted to play. Yeah. Because the game was pure for us. I wanted a way out. I think we're gonna be able to do that to city. That's right. I don't I don't want to go back home. Or when I knew I had a chance to go play, I mean, I like I said, I stayed in the gym. I got to make it, no matter what level it was. And I think uh, you know, I think part of the reason is is you know, we didn't have that social media. Oh, yeah. Uh we didn't, we I wasn't able to look to see what the kid in California was doing and how many offers he got. I just I worried about me.

SPEAKER_01 9:04

Now we did go grab the USA today. We didn't go because I read track, yeah, and I wanted to see what them hundred times look like in Florida and Texas because they got to run year-round.

SPEAKER_00 9:13

But you didn't see it every day. No, I know you didn't see it every day. So I I think that's a big a big deal, is that you know, kids have constant things that they can see and look at to try to get this gratification, man, and instead of just being narrow-minded and focused on what they need to do, man. So uh, you know, and it's hard, man. Playing, you know, playing at any level, it's hard. You have to continue to level up. Right. And I think that's part of what's missing with kids too, man. Like, you know, kids are satisfied and they don't think that they need to continue to get better. Yeah you know, and and that's that's a big talk with me, man. Like, I you know, you still gotta have standards, got to still gotta work to get better, no matter how good you are, and there's always uh a level that you can get up to. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:53

So man, um, here's a question for you, man. So you you you're navigating just the mindset of the kids that we have right now. Yeah. Okay. How are you managing the parents' expectations for these kids, man? Yeah, and what's realistic, you know what I mean? And maybe what a kid has a strive and a desire to do, but is unable to do right now and where they are with the game.

SPEAKER_00 10:18

Yeah. I I would say that I've been blessed and fortunate uh to be in some programs that's got some really good parents, but I I do think that that's because like I'm I am I'm a blunt person and I'm very transparent. And so when I sit down with parents, I tell them the do's and the don'ts.

SPEAKER_02 10:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

I I just do. And like I I am not willing to negotiate a lot of different things, uh, you know, and I won't talk about things like playing time or coaching decisions as made abundantly clear, yeah, and that I'm always gonna put the team first. Yeah. Uh, you know, for for kids who want who really want to get to another level, I am all about the the player, and we're always gonna make a plan on how we can get there, and I'm realistic in saying what's a best fit. Yeah. If I know a kid is not a D1 kid, but they may be a NAIA kid or a Division II kid, I'm gonna have those conversations. Yeah and I'm gonna talk to them about it. And you know, sometimes people may not like it. Oh, that's the point. You know, sometimes people may not like it, but uh I I my experience is it's not always the kid either. And I think you have to have some realistic expectations and with those talks with the parents.

SPEAKER_01 11:24

I think I think people say, tell me the truth, and I'm I'm really big on telling people the truth. Absolutely. But sometimes it's not what they want to hear, so they're angry with you about telling you, hey, your kid is good, but they can be great playing in this environment at this level with this coach that's gonna allow them to play this, or your kid likes the school, a parent likes the school, but that system doesn't fit for how she plays. Right. This is what she does well. This is these are the programs that she can thrive in, and they won't ask her to fit in a uh be a round peg that fits in a square hole. Right. She can be herself and thrive and be happy playing the game. Those are hard conversations.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

Those are hard conversations, and and another part of that hard conversation is that you know, parents and some kids don't understand that you can you can be effective without just scoring the basketball. Okay. That's another ripple. You can you can be just as effective by doing other things and scoring the basketball.

SPEAKER_01 12:22

Dominant. You can be dominant. You can. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 12:24

And I mean, you know, the the way things are set up now, especially the way uh the pace of play is and how things have changed, you know, if you can average eight points, but you are a really good defender and you can knock down an open shot and you communicate, coaches are looking for that.

SPEAKER_02 12:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 12:39

But that's not appealing, and that's not, you know, the sexy thing for parents and kids.

SPEAKER_02 12:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 12:44

You know, and so like every team, you know, you don't need five people who can score. You need two people who can score, maybe. You need somebody who's willing to play defense, who's willing to get the assist record, you know, who's willing to get the rebound record. You need those type of people.

SPEAKER_01 12:57

My my my conversation with my players and my families now are coaches aren't looking for players that do just enough. Correct. They they this the the landscape for college basketball has changed so much where you can't get a freshman in, and it's such an investment for those coaching staff to develop that freshman and be ready to play. There's no guarantee with the landscape that it is that that freshman will be there. Yeah. So you can't be a liability in those other areas like communication, like locker room presence and character, like uh accountability in the classroom, uh, like rebounding, like playing defense off the ball and on the ball, uh, like uh being an effective communicator on and off the floor. You have to check every single box right now to be that division one player, to get a consideration when they can go get somebody that's been doing it for the last few years.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

How do you set yourself apart? And one of the first conversations I had when I met with the team at Noblesville, it was it was about being a good teammate. That was that was the first conversation. I think they tell you that the first conversation was about being a good teammate. And when I have parent meetings, one of the first things I talk about is yes, you know, when you say, hey, who wants to go to college and play? Everybody raises their hand. Yeah. And I say, Well, you're gonna have to be a good teammate. Because a lot of the times when our kids graduate, and this is life too, not just in basketball, you're gonna end up being a teammate more than you are gonna be in a superstar.

SPEAKER_02 14:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:23

Yeah in everything you do.

SPEAKER_02 14:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

And I don't think a lot of people realize that. You know, you can be a superstar in college by the time you're a senior, but when you start back over or uh in the pros or in high school going to college, you're gonna have to be a good teammate.

SPEAKER_02 14:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 14:36

Because you're not gonna be the focal point anymore.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

So I'm preaching the same sermon to my staff as well. Because we talk about a culture, we talk about standard as coaches, but your staff has to exemplify what you're asking your team to exemplify. They have to live what they're preaching. Correct. So I'm very in tune to hey, developing who my staff is and making sure that myself included, we continue to grow into the people we're asking our kids to be. Right. And developing that culture within our staff, kids do more what they see than what you say. Correct. They are also empaths. So if there's a division or a shift in your staff locker room, then they know by how the feeling is and the interaction within the team. So I have been starting with myself first as the head coach. I gotta be right. I gotta continue to grow. Not just as a basketball coach, but as a man, as a man of God. You know what I mean? So I'm using that with my staff. Hey, this is who we have to be to be successful in the eyes of God, in the eyes of us as a coaching staff, as a as a husband, as a father, as a as a mother, as a wife, whatever, you know what I mean? You this is what we need to do and show the example we want our kids to be, and let basketball be the tool to teach the discipline necessary to sustain that for the rest of your life.

SPEAKER_00 16:00

Yep. I think the one one of the biggest lessons I've learned throughout this coaching and just in the workforce too, is that you do have to be intentional about everything you do from the people that you bring in, because you know, uh with the landscape and how it is, you know, why would I want to go hire coaches just because they can get kids right now?

SPEAKER_01 16:17

Or they can run a drill.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

Or they can run a drill. Like you have to have people who are going to one, they got to match your mindset, they gotta match your personality and have a little bit of offset too, because you don't want everybody to be alike. Yeah. But also you got to have some people who can relate to kids. Yes. You have to have people who can relate to these kids. And move with integrity. And move with integrity. Yeah. And not make it about them. You can't have you can't have hidden agendas and make it about them. It's got to be about a collective. And I think that's why I feel like everything I do has to be intentional.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

There's there's a level of humility that you need to be a leader. Absolutely. To lead people. It doesn't matter if you're a header.

SPEAKER_00 16:53

To be a leader, you gotta serve.

SPEAKER_01 16:54

Look, if serving is if serving is beneath you, then leadership is above you because leadership is service. That's right. It's serving the people you've been blessed to steward. That's right. Whether they're a player, whether they're a coworker, whether they're a staff, whether it's your wife, whether it's your husband, whether it's your children, you have to serve. I mean, there is no doubt that that in your household you serve your children. Absolutely. There's no doubt in my house I do the same. So why would we not do that with the people that are entrusting us to impart the best of ourselves to their children? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 17:23

It's a service, man. It is a service. And it's, you know, a lot of people, you know, I think people like us, Coach, Coach Mitchell, we're we're in it for the kids. We want to serve. Yeah. But there are other people who are in it for the position. Yeah. Or the or the status. Or the status. You know, and what is that serving? Yeah. Serving themselves. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:40

Or using the kid to maybe get a better job. Correct. Look, I can don't even get me on the recruiting stuff. And the high school level, which is not allowed, but what it is, what it is, man. But back to back to the coaching, the leadership, the service. Who is that coach for you? Who is that coach for you? That I mean you it could be more than one that stood out in your life that helped give you the direction you need to now. You're like, look back on it like, man, that coach was really impactful to me.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

You know, I would say it's a number of people. One, my grandfather, uh, he passed away a few years ago, and he was he was a person that I looked to that kind of transformed his life. You know, he he was an alcoholic, did some things that I've saw in my lifetime that like I wouldn't agree with, yeah, but I also saw his transformation.

SPEAKER_02 18:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:26

I saw him change it around and be better for it.

SPEAKER_02 18:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:29

And he was a big, big, big part of how I became a person when I became an adult. Uh, as far as the coaching aspect of it, man, I've had so many really good coaches. Yeah. Uh it all started with a gentleman that was my seventh and eighth grade coach at Thomas Jefferson Middle School. His name was Dennis Brew.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

Dennis.

SPEAKER_00 18:46

Dennis Brew. Dennis Brew. Shout out, shout out, coach. Shout out. Dennis Brew. And he he saw me as the person. He knew I was gifted, but he was the one that would say, hey, young man, you got to do things this way. Yeah. Hey, man, when you come in here, make sure your pants pulled up. Hey, man, you know, if you want to. So he was the one who kind of taught me how to be a guy.

SPEAKER_01 19:04

He was on you about the little stuff.

SPEAKER_00 19:06

About the little stuff.

SPEAKER_01 19:06

About the little stuff. The stuff that gets on our kids' nerves now.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

And yes, and there's a say, like Bruce Arians would say, uh coach him hard, hug them after. Yes. He was that kind of guy. Yeah. You know what I mean? And so to this day, since seventh and eighth grade, he watched me all through high school. And to this day, I call him about once a month. He lives in Florida, plays in the jazz band, and I still talk to him.

SPEAKER_01 19:26

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

He's like a father to me. And so he was one of the ones that made the biggest impact. And you know, I've got some other people, you know, uh, Tim Cruz, he was my football coach. Tim Cruz, you know, uh at Steve Nicator High School, uh, older black gentleman. Okay. It's all about doing things the right way, taught me how to be a man. And so, you know, I think that's big when you don't have a father in the house and you're looking. Uh, but you know, you get some people who don't do things the right way, but they always see who have potential and they say, hey, you know, you can either be a follower or you can be a leader. Yeah. And I chose to be a leader.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

I think it's so important, man, that we that we as coaches realize that we might be the only structure, the only love, uh, the only ears that actually listen to the players, the only Jesus that they see, you know, uh, to the players that we serve. Yeah. Because we don't, until you really get in a locker room with a kid, get on the court with a kid, get through some adversity with a kid, that kid may not open up to you till a little while later, right? But once that kid does, you might have a bigger insight to this is why he's struggling with that, or this is why she's struggling with that, or this is why that was so in me, it's it seemed small to me, but it seemed big to her that it was an issue. Right. Because there's some trauma there, uh, because there's a lack of this there, there's a lack of uh communication, there's a communication barrier there because they're not allowed to express themselves or don't know how to. Correct. How many times have you had a teammate or a player who expressed themselves with a lash out because they've never had a dialogue that they weren't point the finger at?

SPEAKER_00 20:58

And I think that's been a lot. I think that's happening in the school system too. Right now. You know, and you know, as a dean of students or former dean of students, like that's that's happening right now. Yeah. And there are, you know, I think we all know there are certain people in the building that these kids want to come to because they trust you. Yeah. And they know that you're invested. Yeah. You know, and so I think that's the big thing, man, relationships. You know, people think because you're an adult that these kids nowadays are going to respect you, and that's just not the way it works. No. You have to build a relationship with these kids to get them to that point.

SPEAKER_01 21:26

I think as adults, what we got to understand is these kids don't have the interpersonal skills that you and I grew up with. Like you said, we didn't have social media. So a lot of their communication is digital. It is. It is it is open to interpretation because it's text or or passive aggressive messaging. Correct. Right? Uh hitting messaging. Where when you're having this type of dialogue, eye contact is a threat to our kids. It sure is. You know, uh, tone of voice is a big thing to our kids. Uh the w the proximity is a big thing to our kids. You can Be as loving and compassionate to someone as you possibly can be, but if you're too close to him, he feels some kind of way. If you're too far from her, she feels like she's you're yelling at her.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

Well, you know, like look at the workforce today. You know, everything we do is via email, everything we do is via text. Yes. You know, I want to want you to do this via text. Nobody has a face-to-face conversation. Yeah. And like you said, it's left up for interpretation. And I think that that is why these interpersonal interactions are just not as great, or people can't problem solve because, you know, when we we had to read the book.

SPEAKER_01 22:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 22:36

You know, we had to listen to the teacher. We had to take the note.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

And like write out your thoughts, your feelings, your questions. We had to like take time and write it out. You know what I mean? So uh, and then doing this and having a question answered by an individual, not a device. Correct. You can ask Siri, whatever, or you know, like, but you can't do that. You couldn't do that back then.

SPEAKER_00 23:02

Even just thinking about remembering phone numbers. Oh man.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

You gotta remember for you know I struggle now with it, and I'm grown. Okay, because we didn't have some programs.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

I think back then you had to remember those numbers. Yes, yes. You know, streets. I think we could we could say we walked around everywhere, we knew everywhere. I could give you details about the street, you know, the landmarks, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 23:21

Like so different. Okay, I like that, coach. I like that, coach. Okay, so so so tell me this, coach. You know, you you got a wonderful career going coach, you know. Uh like I say, you were at Greens, Greenwood, then you trans transitioned to Tri-West, correct? Tri-West, yes. Tri-West, and then that led you to Riverside, uh, here in Riverside. Tribside, yeah. Okay, and uh now moving to Novasville. Okay, now you're teaching in Noblesville as well?

SPEAKER_00 23:43

I'll I'll be going over as a uh health and wellness teacher and helping out with strength and conditioning.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

Oh, so you'd be able to get in the weight room with the kids, which is a big thing, you know. You guys got a pretty good weight program over there too. I I've been in that weight room before.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

It is it is refinished and nice. Uh, you know, Tony D is our weight room coordinator over there at Noblesville. He's great. Okay. Uh, and I've met him a couple times already, man. And I I'm excited what he's got for these young ladies to do in the in the summer to get to work, man.

SPEAKER_01 24:11

So yeah, and you guys plan some events this summer? We are planning some events this summer. Yeah, good. Yeah, we we're gonna we we're gonna be moving around a little bit too. We didn't get to go to everything that we wanted to this summer, but we we moving around playing some, trying to play some good competition. Right. You know, I I want to I want us to, if we got to take lumps, I want us to take them playing against the best competition we can. There you go. Because it's gonna help you get better. And our sexual is no cupcake. Your sexual is no cupcake either, coach. You got some hitters in your sexual. Yeah, yeah. But you'd be just fine. I know, I know they'd be excited, man. So so okay, so tell me this, coach. I always ask this question. If you could go back in time, okay, and talk to your younger self as a coach. Give me three things that you would tell yourself to help you along your path. Like, I call it hindsight's 2020. Yeah. Okay. So now that you have been through it literally, what would you go back and tell younger Justin? As a coach?

SPEAKER_00 25:05

As a coach. Oh man.

SPEAKER_02 25:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:06

Uh the first thing would probably be um don't take things personal. Right? Don't take things personal. I gotta tell myself stuff now. That now, sometimes, you know. I'm in a good place to where, you know, uh because I care so much about the kids, like everything else just doesn't matter. Yeah. You know, and then you just kind you just gotta kind of let it go. Because at the end of the day, you know, especially with coaching these kids, we're the ones that's in the gym with them. Yeah, we see them every day. If we're in the school with them, we see them in the school. So like we're having just as much contact with them as the parents are. Yeah. So I, you know, not taking things personal. Uh the other thing would be um, you know, care a little bit less about the outside noise. Say that again.

SPEAKER_01 25:49

The outside noise.

SPEAKER_00 25:51

Care a little bit less about the outside noise and just focus on what you got in front of you.

SPEAKER_01 25:54

Yeah, a lot of it's distraction, man.

SPEAKER_00 25:56

It is.

SPEAKER_01 25:56

You know, it's it's opinions, man. You know, I saw, I saw, uh, I'm not sure, I I wish I can give credit to the podcast I saw it on, because I I watched, I watched uh a little bit of this podcast, and the guy was asking, Have you heard about the man, the woman, and the donkey? Okay. And he gave this illustration. I'm gonna give it now, okay? I want to give them credit when I can, though. You know, the man and illustration, the man and woman, and a donkey, and they're traveling, and a man and woman are walking, and they're walking with the donkey, and somebody in the distance, some outside noise, says, Man, that man and woman is stupid. Why don't they just get on the donkey and ride the donkey? So somebody else sees them, and the man is riding the donkey this time, and the woman is walking, and the donkey is carrying the man. And they say, Man, then look at that guy, man. He don't care about his woman, man. That's terrible. That he's gonna make her walk while he rides the donkey, you know? So then somebody else sees them, and the woman's riding the donkey, and the man's walking, and the donkey's carrying the woman. They say, Man, she must be bougie. She, she, she don't, she don't care about her husband. She she making him walk, and she, she's uh she's a passenger princess, you know what I mean? Whatever. And that was their perspective. And then lastly, the man and the woman, they were finally riding the donkey, and the donkey was carrying both the man and the woman. And someone else said, Man, that poor donkey. You gotta carry that man and that woman. That outside noise, man, is always gonna be in a situation where you're critiqued. And for us as coaches, our work is on display on game day. So when you win, the kids win. When you lose, the coach lost the game for the kids. He didn't prepare them, he didn't call the right plays, you didn't use your timeouts right, you didn't know adjustments, but they don't know the interactions of what's happening inside, not just the locker role, but the individual child that we spend time with, that we're trying to be our best for, that we might have to adjust for in the heat of the moment, you know, that adversity doesn't develop character, it reveals character. You know, but that outside noise will change what your response to that adversity will be.

SPEAKER_00 28:03

Absolutely. And I think the less that you care about it, the better you'll be. Yeah. And I think a lot of that is uh is a comparison. Yeah. You know, I think people think because my kid puts two hours in the gym compared to the other kid that's putting two hours in the gym, that it's supposed to be the same result. Yeah. And, you know, I used the analogy the other day when I went to practice. Like, you know, when you put popcorn in the popper, do they all do all the kernels pop at the same time? No, they don't. No, they don't. One gets a little hotter than the other and they all start popping at different times. And that I think that's a microcosm of what we do as coaches.

SPEAKER_01 28:37

Some never, some never pop.

SPEAKER_00 28:38

Some never pop.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

Some never pop, coach. Some never pop. Always some season less that potential that was unrealized, right? Even though they were put in the same situation. That's right. Under the same pressure and the same heat.

SPEAKER_00 28:48

Yep. Yeah. But what they do is they compare to everybody else, and you just can't do that. Oh man, that's a good one, coach.

SPEAKER_01 28:54

Okay, so we got two. Okay. Outside noise. Yep. Let it go. Okay. Don't take things personal. Yep. Give me one more.

SPEAKER_00 29:02

Be you. I think early in my career, uh, I wouldn't say I was trying to please people, but uh, you know, I I didn't feel like myself at times. I wanted to be me. And I think uh, you know, it came to a point where I just said, you know what, I don't care. I'm just gonna be me. I think our kids are scared to be themselves because they're scared of the judgment.

SPEAKER_01 29:20

Yep. Will you like the real me? Yeah. Will you accept the real me? Because that that acceptance thing, man, or that like the likes and the shares and the comments, it's a really, it's a really uh, it's like a drug, man, to our kids. It's an addiction. It is, you know what I mean? So you'll be whatever it's necessary to get the likes from someone else. And like you said, you never find yourself, or you lose yourself.

SPEAKER_00 29:47

Or you lose yourself.

SPEAKER_01 29:48

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

I mean that's the biggest thing. Once, once I felt like I could be myself and I didn't care what they what the perception was, I think that's that's that's when I became better. And you know, when I when I went to Greenwood, I you know, the situation wasn't great. I was the fourth coach in four years. Wow, the culture wasn't wasn't super great. Uh, you know, we threw had a COVID year we throw in there too. And so uh I think that that job right there is where I became a a better coach because I had to coach him. Yeah, I had to learn about myself. I had to I had to learn how to develop a little bit better uh as opposed to where in our other places before. I have some decent athletes, and then you know, in girls' basketball, if you got a couple decent ones, you can get away with some stuff. Yes, you know, and but Greenwood, you know, we had to make players, and you know, COVID year we go three and 15, and I'm playing with a different lineup every game because of contact tracing and different stuff like that. And uh I had a situation where there were some parents who wanted me to lose a game against Decatur Central. It was the last game of the season. We had only won two games, and they felt like we should just play everybody. Just play everybody. This is not the year I was there. No, this was the year before you got there. Okay. Uh just play everybody. And this was this was made known. Just we should just play everybody. We're not gonna beat, we're in the sectional, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Now, one or two things can happen. I can I can do that and just make everybody happy, or I can I can coach the way I need to coach to propel us for the future. Yes. And so I chose to propel us to the future. That meant some seniors didn't play.

SPEAKER_02 31:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:17

That means, you know, we go into a double overtime game and we win. And so some people were upset about that. All right, mostly parents. But then we come back after going three and fifteen in a COVID year to make it to a sectional championship the next year, and I think it's because of that moment.

SPEAKER_02 31:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:32

It's because of that moment. Because we teach kids how to persevere and make a decision. Yeah. You don't have to give in to what everybody else wants. You have to do what you need to do to get where you want to go.

SPEAKER_01 31:41

And you earn what you get. I shouldn't have to give you playing time.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 31:45

You know, I that's right. I tell my kids this all the time. I tell my parents this too. You know, once a month, twice a month, I want you to come and practice. Come sit and watch. I want you to see who your kid really is. When it's hard, when she's competing against somebody that she knows, when she's uncomfortable. I want you to really see it. So on game day, when I need to trust your child or a child with A, B, or C, guard this player, box out that kid, remember this play. You know, you gotta every you know every TikTok in the world, you know every single dance, but we can't remember the inbounds play that I know we've run in practice multiple times. That's right. But you want me to play this kid because, well, they go to practice every day, correct. But they have they earned the playing time. Correct. If I give them everything, then they won't value what they earn in life.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

Which is where I think AAU culture is right now. It is it is so hard for people to value the winning because I think there are people now who would just rather see the their kids do great things regardless if we win the game or not. Amen. And, you know, we are in a we are in a world where a team has to do everything together. And, you know, uh, I I love AAU by the way. I'm not knocking it. Yes. Because I coach it too.

SPEAKER_01 33:03

But it's broken right now.

SPEAKER_00 33:04

But but we got some things we got to fix. It's broken right now. You know, if I if I got kids that I know I'm playing for Coach Nick, I'm gonna have a conversation with Coach Nick about what I want to see them get better at. And when I coached the AAU, guess what I did? I reached out to those coaches and said, hey, what do you want them working on?

SPEAKER_02 33:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:20

Because I don't want to play 60 games. I want to help them get better. Yes. And that that to me should be the goal. You know, I think college coaches know you can score and do some other things, but like, can you remember that play? Are you willing to play some defense?

SPEAKER_01 33:33

I I want to tell you a little story, man, because I coached AAU and I coached high school ball. Yeah. You know, and there are very few AAU coaches who are willing to have the conversation with the high school coach about, hey, what you know, what does she do for you? Or come and watch their come and watch your kid play. Right. Because you know she's on your team in the fall. Yep. You know it. But how many of you actually come and watch him play? Yeah. But AAU direct, he's actually a director. Uh his name's Bruce Harris. Okay. Uh his is her his daughter is Tyasha Harris. Okay. But uh, one of my players played for him, and we're on the phone tag teaming. What schools have you talked to that's interesting to her? These are the schools that I've talked to that's interesting to her. Hey, these are what her grades and attendance is. That's that's what they're asking for right now. That's what they're asking. They're asking for grades and attendance. They want to know if you're showing up.

SPEAKER_00 34:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 34:26

Do you if you didn't come to school, you didn't go to practice.

SPEAKER_00 34:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 34:30

You know, like if you were late, but they want to know because you're getting paid to play. Yeah. So we're me and Bruce, we're having these conversations. I talk to the school, oh, I talk to that school, cool. This school wants to pull the trigger, but they haven't yet, you know what I mean? Okay, cool. This school has said that they are really interested, they're gonna get on the phone call with her so that she can get the best of of what she wants. Yeah. As a player, right? We're working together to tag team that. But how many, how many dialogues like that are happening?

SPEAKER_00 34:57

And I just think it's a status thing. You know, everybody wants to be able to claim that they did something offer, you know. And so I to me, that's not, that shouldn't be the goal. No. It should be to help that young man or that young lady get where they need to be and you know, have, you know, have kids that I've coached went on to play. Yeah, but I'm not posting it and putting it everywhere because that's that you know, the kid earned that. Yes. I'm a I'm a part of the journey, but the kid did that. Yeah, I'm a very small part. Yeah. I tell her, I I'm a part of the journey. That's it.

SPEAKER_01 35:23

Even when kids have left my program, I tell them, and I tell the parents, I want to thank you for allowing me to impart a small part of myself to be a small part of her journey. Yeah. Because it's not about me. It's this is her whole life's work has turned into this opportunity for her, or her even going to another. Thank you for letting me be a small part of that kid's journey. I'm gonna love that kid regardless if they graduate, if they transfer, if they decide not to play next year. That's that's a big thing right now in sports. Right now, we're losing really good athletes because the sport is hard. It's hard. Like basketball is one of the hardest girls' sports. You know what I mean? Outside of rugby, outside of soccer. This is the only one you get to hit somebody and it's cool and it's axed of you on offense and on defense. That's right. You know, so the sacrifice of her body, man, girls will go and I'm gonna go play volleyball, or I'm gonna go play, I'm gonna go cheer, or you know, softball, you know, it's not as big in the Midwest, but like in the South, southball huge, you know what I mean? Like, I'm gonna go play those sports because I really ain't gotta touch nobody. Right. You know, uh I can make a team that big roster's a little bit bigger, you know. I know that there's a rotation I'm gonna be in. There's more people actually on the floor at the same time. Right, you know, basketball, it's five, man. Five and playing right now. And you know, and I know in high school, high-level high school ball, 4-A ball, you you're playing about six, seven kids, and you got about eight or nine in a jersey. That's it, man. You might have 25 kids in your program, 30 kids in your program, but you only play them seven.

SPEAKER_00 36:57

Unless you have a special group, you know, it is what it is. You got a rotation of about eight people.

SPEAKER_01 37:02

And that is what they earn, right?

SPEAKER_00 37:04

And it is what they earn. And that's where I think like creating a culture of competition. Yeah. You know, like in practice. Like you, you know, right, you know, we played, me and you could still be friends after going at each other in practice. Now, you know, you want to take it easy on people, and that's stuff you got to call it out.

SPEAKER_01 37:19

I know you're trying to take my head off. Yes. Because I'm trying to take yours off too. Because you want to get better. But that's respect.

SPEAKER_00 37:24

That's respect.

SPEAKER_01 37:24

That's respect. You know, I know I can't go easy on coach because if I go easy on coach, he got game. He's gonna embarrass me out here, and it ain't even personal. He just trying to get his move off. Right. Trying to get his shot off. I can't let you just cook me, bro.

SPEAKER_00 37:37

But how do I get better if you take it easy on me? And that and that, and I for me, like anybody who is really competitive, and you got some kids out there who are super competitive. Yeah. Uh, how am I gonna get better if you if I take, you know, if you take it easy on me or I take it easy on you? Yeah. And that does us no good. Nobody wins in that situation.

unknown 37:54

Man.

SPEAKER_01 37:54

So, coach, we have a segment, man, where the previous guest leaves a question for the next coach. And the question that was left uh for you uh by coach Kevin Merriweather, who's who was our guest before you. Uh, he he his question was, Why do you do it, man? Why do you coach?

SPEAKER_00 38:11

Why do you do it? You know, I got into coaching, uh, you know, a good friend of mine, Randy Saxon, was over at international high school and got me into coaching after I came here to Indianapolis. Uh and it was girls' basketball. You know, I had a I had a younger brother and sister who passed away when I was in high school. And my, you know, they they had some some health complications, and my sister was not able to do some of those things. My why is because you know, I think some people take it for granted. I I think people take the opportunity that they are given so for granted, which is why I'm so passionate about it. Uh, in that, you know, if I could trade places that have my sister be able to do some of the things I can do, or my brother that passes, I would do it in a heartbeat.

SPEAKER_02 38:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:54

And I think, you know, when you have the opportunity to do that stuff, you don't take it for granted. And so I stay in coaching because I know there are kids who really do want it. And I think you, you know, you sift them out, the ones who really want to do it. And so my why is because I, you know, I see, especially coaching girls basketball, I see my daughters, my sisters, and some of these kids that I want them to take advantage of the opportunity because it's not just about the ball bouncing. It's about them learning the life too. Yes, you know, when you go how you're gonna be able to rebound when something don't go wrong in life, you know, you're gonna need a teammate to get you somewhere.

SPEAKER_02 39:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 39:26

Right? You're gonna you're gonna have to assist somebody to get somewhere.

SPEAKER_02 39:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

You know, you're gonna miss a ton of shots when you're trying to put in for jobs and everything else. You're gonna have to work hard to get there. So it's all applicable. And uh that's my why. You know, I I I really think uh I'm you know, like you, like Coach Midgel, some other people, just we're we're put in this ministry because this, you know, this is what we are supposed to do.

SPEAKER_01 39:49

And it is a ministry, man. It is a ministry, it is, it is, man. Uh I hope kids, whether you play for me or not, you never see me. I'm just Nick. I hope you see him through me by how I treat you. Yeah. Because I can't preach to you in the locker room. I can preach to my staff. I preach to my staff all the time. Yeah. But I can't preach to the kid. But I hope you see him by how I treat you and how I live.

SPEAKER_04 40:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:13

That's that's what my walk with him is. You know what I mean? My ministry is how I treat my wife, how I treat my coworkers, how I treat my the children that I serve, you know, how I treat fellow coaches, you know what I mean? I know we're gonna speak at halftime, we're gonna come to half court line, we're gonna laugh. I'm gonna ask you how you're doing, how your family's doing and everything. When the ball goes up, you're trying to outcoach me, I'm trying to outcoach you. That's right. I'm trying to get my kids to destroy your kids, you try and get your kids to destroy mine. But afterwards, in that handshake line, I'm not just shaking your hand, I'm making eye contact, I'm saying good game, I'm showing genuine love. That's right. Because I owe you love. I don't owe you everybody access, but I owe you love. You know what I mean? I gotta love everybody, even your enemies. The Bible says, even love your enemies. That's right. Gotta love them, pray for them too. You know what I mean? You got to. But you said something that that kind of uh touched me a little bit, man. I've been really lucky, blessed to have a young lady come from Toga, Africa last summer. She's actually a college ball player, she never played high school ball for me or anything. But she came here and I've been training her, right? Uh, or you know, working her out while she's home from college, because she's playing ball in college right now. She told me about this young lady in Uganda. I can't remember her name. I'm gonna find it out. I'm gonna find it though. Uh she tore, she's uh I'm 13 years old, cold. I seen video of the girl, she she was she's cold-blooded. Nice tore her ACL, died in the ACL surgery. This is a 13-year-old girl who's playing for the Uganda national team. That's how good she was. And all she wanted to do is come to America and play ball. And she tore her ACL and didn't make it out of the surgery. And we take our players take the game for granted. Tomorrow's not promise. This girl's so good, she's playing for her country. She would have been playing against the U.S. Not here no more, bro. Joe's off for torn ACL. And I think our kids, if they realize how special of an opportunity they have to be an American, to be here, to play at a school in Indiana, you playing Indiana ball. Coaches who actually study and watch film and break down and scout report and call other coaches like what you see because they want the best for you. Absolutely. Not for themselves. And they be like, man, I'm not going to practice today. Or I don't feel like going to weights, or I don't want to run this 17 because coach is tripping, or coach always on me about not rolling my shorts. Like, you know, like we care. We care. You care. You know, we care. So uh, man, you said that I really, I really, I just remembered that, man. And uh the young lady that I coach, her name is Miriam. I call her Mimi. And uh, man, she's on fire for the game. On fire for the game, on fire for God. You know what I mean? She's talking about today. She tells me we did work out this morning. I'm going to pick her up at 5 20 in the morning. We're hitting the gym. You know what I mean? The local gym. And uh, she like, coach, I want to get a tattoo with the scripture. I gotta I gotta pick the right scripture though.

SPEAKER_03 43:12

Right.

SPEAKER_01 43:12

Because I this basketball, God has blessed me to be here because her country, she's from Toga, Africa. It's on the no, it's on a no-fly list right now. So she can't even go home to see her family. She's been here for almost uh uh a little over a year now, and she's here just to try to play ball to make a better life for herself. That's a sacrifice she's making. She has not seen her family in over a year.

SPEAKER_00 43:32

Well, and I think that that goes to speak to where we are, you know, in in our world here. There's a sense of entitlement and not appreciation. And so, you know, uh if I could do it all over, man, I I I probably would try to work ten times harder than I did. And I felt like I worked hard to get where I wanted to go. But I tried to do it even harder. Yeah. And uh I just don't think there's a sense of appreciation for what you have in front of you. It's always about entitlement. And that's something that, you know, people need to realize. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:58

And she talented too, coach. 6'2 guard. Wow. We did a shooting workout today. You shoot 15 at each spot.

SPEAKER_04 44:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:07

And uh she shot 57% from three.

SPEAKER_00 44:13

She has some sisters?

SPEAKER_01 44:15

Somebody right, you know. Where they at? Her family's in Africa, bro. But she won it, man. This is this is at 5 30 in the morning, man. 5 30 in the morning. We're working out for 90 minutes, just me and her. And she's going hard. And she sweating. You know? So I mean, like that type of stuff. I wish that our kids had the drive for the game like that. You know what I mean? That they loved it like that, man. So okay, coach, so you answered a question from Coach Merriweather. Appreciate that, coach. Uh you gotta leave a coach, you gotta leave a question for the next coach. Oh man. You know? It could be anything.

SPEAKER_00 44:51

Anything.

SPEAKER_01 44:51

Anything, man. You know?

SPEAKER_00 44:53

I would say the question for the next coach would be if you could change anything about the game of basketball, what would it be? If you could change anything about the game of basketball, what would it be? If you could change anything about the game, what would it be?

SPEAKER_01 45:11

That's a good question. That's a good question. Yeah, yeah. I don't even know what I would say to that question, coach. I really don't. So uh well I mean I'm excited, man. Got to bring you on, man. And uh man, it's always good to speak with you, man. It's been too long, you know. So, you know, I know I know you your path have been taking you different places, man, and you, you know, trying to get your boy out of school and he's off to college to play ball, it's exciting, you know. But uh, I'd love to have you on again, man. Come on, and maybe we'll maybe we'll get Coach Mitchell to come on with you. You know what I mean? I'm gonna kidnap Coach Mitchell. A lot of people have been bringing up Coach Mitchell, you know. He's listening. He's he's he's a he's he's a legend, man. He's a legend, man. He's a legend. Get him in here. Yeah, yeah, we'll get it, we'll get him on with you too, man. Well, it's great to have you, Coach. Appreciate you, brother. Yes, sir. Absolutely. Uh I want to thank you for joining us on Coach Immunutia today. I want to make a quick little announcement. We have a culture, uh, a culture development program, a course that we're gonna be giving out for free in our Discord, okay? And it's it's uh Bible-based, uh based off the Beatitudes from the Sermon on the Mount. Uh that we, you know, I've been led to share this with everybody. The Bible says, as a disciple, you've been giving the gospel freely, so give it freely. So you ain't gotta pay for this course. You ain't gotta pay for nothing. I'm gonna give out the coaching the coach's version of it and the player's version of it. Now it's both biblical, okay? So I know if you're not in a Christian school, you can't use it. So we will have a non-biblical version coming out that's school-based. Uh, but for right now, these two versions will be coming out. This one coming this week, this Friday, uh, will be posted with our next episode. And uh the following one will be coming out at the end of June. So you can go right into your fall workouts with some locker room development about how we treat each other, how do we uh deal with conflict, how do we deal with community and fellowship, how do we compete? How do we give God glory and live the way he would have us live, not just as coaches, but as players. So thank you for joining us on Coach and Minutia. I look forward to having you again.