World Fencing League: Publicity Stunt or Fencing's Future?

World Fencing League debuts, but is it fencing's future or just hype? We break down Miles Chambley-Watson, blade tracking tech & bold predictions.

The Fencing Podcast of All Fencing Podcasts.

In this episode, you'll discover:
- Why Miles Chamley-Watson is both the perfect and most controversial choice as the face of the World Fencing League, and what his various sponsorships says about fencing's mainstream potential.
- How Dentsu's blade tracking technology works, what it means for spectators trying to understand the sport of fencing, and why it could have implications far beyond fencing
- Why Lee Kiefer, arguably the greatest U.S. fencer of all time, has received almost zero marketing ahead of this debut, and what that says about the league's storytelling woes
- Full match-by-match predictions for Team Blade vs Team Shield across all six bouts, plus an honest verdict on whether the World Fencing League can actually move the needle for the sport

This episode covers the World Fencing League's debut event from every angle: the format, the athletes, the tech, the missed opportunities, and the genuine hope that this could be a transformative moment for professional fencing.

⏱️ CHAPTERS
00:00:00 Intro
00:00:50 Miles-Chamley Watson
00:07:07 Early Impressions
00:08:24 Breaking Down the ormat
00:10:32 Dentsu Explained
00:11:33 Good or Bad Strategy?
00:15:05 Marketing Failures
00:23:05 Scheduling
00:26:04 Dragging Fencing Into the Future
00:30:35 Match Predictions
00:33:52 Building Legitimacy
00:37:04 Final Verdict

💬 BEST QUOTES
"I grew up absolutely idolizing this guy [Miles]. He is one of, if not the most recognizable fencer in the world, really trailblazing in terms of sponsorships."
"Lee Kiefer is arguably on the Mount Rushmore for women's foil all time. She's an incredibly. Rushmore. Incredibly accomplished athlete, incredible representative of the sport, the best U.S. fencer of all time, full stop. And there's been barely any marketing about her."
"This is one of the really exciting things about this event. It's an attempt to drag fencing into the future. The FIE has had many opportunities and has continued to fall short on them."
"How cool is it that fencing is going to be live on streaming platforms everywhere, outside of the Olympics? And it's not going to be a blurry YouTube feed that USA fencing is putting out."

World Fencing League
Website: https://worldfencingleague.org/
📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/worldfencingleague

Theme song written and performed by Colin Campbell
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Thank you for listening!

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Prieur USA

Website: https://www.prieurusa.com/
📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/prieur_usa/

Edge Spray

Website: https://www.edgespray.com/ALL-IN
📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/edgespray/?hl=en

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Oh, yeah, yeah, it's direct elimination. We're gonna be getting into and dissecting the upcoming World Fencing League debut event.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

Yeah. People have been talking about this, Steven, and there's been a lot of hype in the last couple weeks and more recently, the last couple days. Yeah. World Fencing League. They're using this tech, Densu, blade tracking technology, professional fencing. What is this? And it's time for us to explain, talk about what's going on, what we know, what we don't know, and what we think is gonna happen. So, where do we start?

SPEAKER_02 0:48

Well, first of all, Miles Chanley Watson, right? The founder of the league, the man, the myth, the legend, one of the most recognizable faces in fencing, has gone ahead and started this league and is participating as one of the contenders in this league. What are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_01 1:04

So, Miles Chanley Watson is the first men's fencer from the United States to ever be an individual world champion at the senior level. He is a trailblazer in many fronts. He is one of the first, if not the first, um, you know, uh celebs in the sport of fencing. He has a lot of connects with high profile, high visibility individuals. He's been in a lot of circles per se of people that are very famous. And he brings a lot of eyes onto the sport of fencing, and that's really unique because it's a niche sport. Uh yeah, I mean, he is also an Olympic bronze medalist. He's been to a series of Olympics, I believe three separate Olympics. He's got quite the resume as an individual and a Teams fencer. He's super talented, he's flashy, he's got cool moves. He's on the latter part of his career and individually, he hasn't done as well as his previous results in the prime part of his career. That being said, he is flashy, he has a lot of sponsors, and frankly, I think he is. If there is like a group of fencers that had a shot of making this type of thing succeed by being a poster boy for it, I think he is at the top of that list. He'll be a very short list, and that de-risks it for a lot of investors. That being said, being in the league, it goes 50-50. He's extremely flashy, he's a strong fencer, but he is by far not the best fencer in the world right now. And he's putting himself up against one of the best fencers in the world. And that's something else we can really get into when we talk about the format of this. So I don't necessarily think it's good or bad. I just think it is an interesting decision to put yourself in a league where you are the founder of the league. Uh, it sort of makes sense just because, you know, he is or he has made himself the face of this league. And we should definitely get into the fact that a lot of the other fencers who are much more high caliber at the moment and even, you know, across their entire resumes have better resumes, have not been really the face of the league up until this point. But I do think that as far as having a poster boy for the league, he is the most famous fencer on the planet, uh, at least by number of Instagram followers. What do you think?

SPEAKER_02 3:49

Listen, I'll just say I grew up idolizing this guy, right? That got six fences. Probably one of the I'm gonna go out and and guess here that it's probably one of the most viewed fencing clips of all time, right? The Chanley Watson, this other way behind the back touch, right? I grew up trying to figure out how to do this, gotten it once or twice in ep A. You know, it's it's it's a really difficult touch to pull off, especially in epic. I grew up absolutely idolizing this guy, right? He you you've touched on it all already. He is one of, if not the most recognizable fencer in the world, really trailblazing in terms of sponsorships, Red Bull sponsorship, right? And I his whole kit was just so cool. It was always like a highlight for me as a kid seeing like these new sponsorships, these new videos that he would post. I was like, this guy is is living the life, right? There are some concerns with his, you know, the current state of his fencing. And I'm not saying this in a bad way. Miles could absolutely dog walk me and foil, and maybe even epe. Who knows? He's giant and he's a great fencer. I'm not dog walking in epe. Okay, he's not dog walking me in epa, I'll be honest. But he's not at the top of his game, right? So there is that sort of like, you know, you're the you're the representative for the World Fencing League, right? For the public to view fencing for the first time outside of the Olympics, like you're gonna be the guy. And you know what? I'm gonna go out and say it. Hell yeah, he's gonna be the guy. Hell yeah, he should be the guy, right? Like you said, short list of fencers who could be the face of a league, right? There's a very short list of fencers with that celebrity status, that celebrity persona, that that air about them. And Miles is at the top of that list. So yeah, it's almost ideal for the first iteration of a professional fencing league done well that Miles is the guy, right? I I think he absolutely should be the guy for this. He's gonna get more eyes than anybody else on an event that is very difficult to get the public to watch. He has the connect, he has the the friends and these circles. There's gonna be influencers out the ass at this event, right? So, yeah, not only should Miles be the face of the league, he should fence in the league, at least for event one, right? Let the guy, let the guy go out there, at least for event one, and be the anchor, be the hero. Hell, if it's not rigged, I hope he wins, right? If it is rigged, I'm all for what is what's the word I'm looking for? Uh, integrity in sports, right? I'm not I'm not saying that this league is rigged, I'm not saying it's rigged if Miles wins. I want Miles to win. I hope he dog walks Ryan Choi. I mean, he's definitely the underdog. He's the underdog, but who doesn't love an underdog story? And it's crazy, it's crazy saying that Miles Chanley Watson is an underdog, but I hope he goes all the way with it. I'm very, very excited for event number one. And I just when we were setting up the studio just now, I was scrolling through Instagram. I had a moment to myself, they posted a reel with what looked like a glimpse of the trophy that the teams are competing for. Oh my gosh, that was shiny. There seemed to be some gems involved. I think they're okay. So I'll I'll go into a second opinion of this league, right? Initially, press not great. Their advertisement, not great. The the glimpses they were giving into what this was gonna be and how it was gonna be done. It just I it didn't catch my eye, and I'm eagerly awaiting this, right? And so it definitely wasn't catching the public five months out, four months out, whenever they announced this, however many months ago. Recently, final month, they are picking it up and they are bringing in sponsorships that I did not expect that they would bring in.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

Mercedes-Benz.

SPEAKER_02 7:43

Mercedes-Benz. I forgot.

SPEAKER_01 7:45

Um, Don Julio.

SPEAKER_02 7:47

Don Julio. Like these are these are big brands that why the hell they're associating themselves with professional fencing, I don't know, but I also don't care. Ferrari, bring it. Like I yeah. We need an insurance company. We need an insurance company to sponsor this league. Uh, so if any of my insurance people have found this podcast, talk to your manager's manager's manager, and let's get some money going to the World Fencing League and let me have a cut. So, World Fencing League, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

What is it?

SPEAKER_02 8:18

Listen, it is a uh it is 2016 Borge Cadet Worlds remastered. All right, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

So on that note, I I think that to just explain this to people, the format is such there are two teams. Each team contains two epe fencers, two foil fencers, and two saber fencers. The men's epe and woman's epaist, men's foil, woman's foil, men's saber, woman's saber. Each fencer fences their respective opponent on the other team in a match with revised rules, and then the winner gets a point. The team that accrues the most points wins.

SPEAKER_02 8:59

So there can be a tiebreaker.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

I think they have a tiebreaker format. We'll see. It's very interesting. Not a lot of strategy you can implement as a team, um, which makes it a little bit interesting that they introduced it as a team event. That being said, it allows the sport to showcase every event available in able-bodied fencing. There's no para here, it's a whole different conversation. Um here we are. So, and I'm not saying that there should or shouldn't be para. I'm just saying there isn't. So I don't know how marketable it's gonna be because we're introducing the world to fencing for the first time, and we're force-feeding them all three weapons. They're also gonna see men's and women's fencing in all three weapons. So, six, you know, semi-related but not the same events, and it could be very confusing for spectators. My fear is that there are too many rules, too much stuff happening in front of them. So they're gonna be using this densu technology that we'll talk about in a second, that will make it easier to track for the spectators viewing it both live on their screens as well as in person. But is it going to really help them make sense of what's happening? I'm not sure. Maybe they'll see who has right of way, but they won't necessarily know why. They'll be clapping but confused. I I don't know if that's the right way to approach it, and that's something we can dive into more. But one thing that we should talk about here is the Dunsu technology.

SPEAKER_02 10:38

I just want to say it is hilarious. And this is obviously, you know, when you're when you're involved in something as intimately as we are in fencing, right? You you know little niche facts, right? And I think it's so funny that all these major accounts have been posting this blade tracking technology and they're like, brand new blade tracking technology. It's been around for so long. It's it's hilarious to me that the there's a lot of accounts that are are posting that this is like a fresh thing, brand new technology. It's been around for a while. I'm sure they made some changes. Oh, absolutely. And I'm sure this sort of like highlighting right of way, there could even be a I mean, I'm not an engineer for this project, but like there could even be a little shortened explanation of why they have right of way. But to veer slightly away from this this blade tracking technology and go back to something you were saying about the format, right? Where you're force feeding the public all the weapons, I think it's a great move for the first event, right? The world because the world fencing league doesn't they're not married to this format, right? There are no laws, there's no FIE saying that they have to have six-person teams forever, and that it has to be this win a match, get a point, right? I think for the first event, hell yeah, force feed the public, show them, show them what we have, show them what fencing is, show them all three weapons, show them men's and women's. Show them in a team working together, right? That way it flows nicely together. Um find out what sticks, right? Now you find out the issues with all three weapons, you find out what the public likes the most, right? We finally settle the debate. Is it about the is it about the flashy entertainingness that is more appealing in foil and saber when you don't know what the hell is going on? Or is it Epe, at least you know what's going on, but it's a little slower. Like we can we can finally understand from a layman's point of view, because we have these all in one place and they're forced to watch all of them in a row, what are the people like? And where do those gaps still exist, right? Because maybe there's still an interest in all three weapons, but we're gonna need to make some more tweaks to the rule sets. So I think the fact that they're showcasing all the weapons at once in a short amount of time is a great way to start.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

I'm gonna challenge you. So if they're doing that, then I think in order to give every weapon the best shot, they need to have the best showman and showwoman for each weapon competing. I do not think they pick the best cast of characters for putting on a true show.

SPEAKER_02 13:13

No, but Max Heinz are retired.

SPEAKER_01 13:14

Max Heinz are retired, but you have Epeus, Foilists and Sabers. I think for foil, men's foil, you pick two great showmen. Absolutely. Choi, Chamley Watson, great. Osang Gook, great showman, and he is fencing against JPP. I think they picked the wrong Patrice brother to put on a show. Because this is about putting on a show, right? If it's if it's not you're what you're arguing is that this event is just an exhibition to show fencing and then the league will develop otherwise.

SPEAKER_02 13:44

I'm not saying it's gonna develop on its own, right? I'm not saying that magically we're gonna, we're gonna like do this and then the path will be clear, right? There needs to be, and this is this needs to be going on behind the scenes, right, with the media entities that are putting this on, right? They need to be focus groups, analytics, tracking minute by minute what does the public like, what does the public not like, if they want to be the most successful with this, and then iterate on it. So however, however, if you start with one weapon at a time, the way you're you're throwing it out there, right? Like one, you need a lot of money, right, to put on three plus events just to show the public all the weapons, right? You need a ton of money. And two, there's a chance that the public watches this, whether it's the six weapon this the six bout format or one match at a time, right? There's a the chance the public watches this and it's just not a good enough show. And we don't need to. Well, that's that's what I'm talking. You need good showmen to help carry that show. But that even if you get the best showman of all time, if you had Max Heinzer fencing Osang Gook with literal lightsabers, like there is no guarantee that anybody besides fencers gives a and will watch another match.

SPEAKER_01 15:03

So that brings me to the next point. What do people care about? In my opinion, people care about stories, people care about drama, people care about fashion, excitement. The only thing that the league is selling so far, other than pictures of Miles Chimley Watson, is the fact that they're using really cool technology. The world doesn't know anything about the athletes that are going to be competing in the league. They don't know anything about how they got here, who they are, why they're here, why they were selected, why this matters to them, why they should care, why they should watch. At this point, people are just watching because, oh, cool technology, or they won't watch at all, or they are fencers, and fencers are going to watch regardless. And that is one of the things that I think maybe could have been done a little bit better to give this a shot, where you do more profiling on the athletes leading up to the event.

SPEAKER_02 15:56

Well, now we're talking marketing versus um format.

SPEAKER_01 16:00

Well, marketing is a big part of this event. Yes, it's not part of the format. Okay, we're we're still discussing the format. That's true, that's true. Okay, so you're getting ahead of you're getting ahead of me. I am okay. So format, I I agree with you that it's a great way to showcase the league. I don't think it's a sustainable format whatsoever.

SPEAKER_02 16:16

No, and I don't think it should be. I think they should change it in event too.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

I agree, and I hope I hope you will, World Fencing League. Uh, that being said, let's talk about marketing. Sure. Why should anyone watch this league?

SPEAKER_02 16:27

Uh, because fencing's awesome, guys.

SPEAKER_01 16:30

Great one. Yeah. Someone else. Someone just clicked away from this video.

SPEAKER_02 16:33

If you're watching this podcast and you're not watching the World Fencing League and you're not a fencer, I don't know what the hell you're doing with your life.

SPEAKER_01 16:40

Um, but go watch the World Fencing League. So, in my opinion, the World Fencing League really fell short on their marketing. And I think if you're going to be doing something big like this, you need to sell the hell out of it. What this has turned into is a seemingly a publicity stunt for Miles and for this dense technology. When in reality, you have some incredible athletes competing at this event. Lee Kiefer is arguably on the Mount Rushmore for woman's foil all time. She's an incredibly incredibly accomplished athlete, incredible representative of the sport, the best U.S. fencer of all time, full stop. And there's been barely any marketing about her. Gargo Siclosi and Koki Kano, a classic match in Men's Eppay, both really pushing for that Mount Rushmore spot on Men's Eppay. If they're not there already, we can have our own argument about that on another episode. Point being, no stories about them. Osang Gook also pushing towards that Mount Rushmore, if not on it already for Men's Saber. No stories about him. JPP, really cool story over the last couple years. Uh, being fourth at the Olympic on the Olympic team for France to number one in the world in Men's Saber. Also, no story about him. Esther Muhari being so young, so successful, so dominant at the NCAA level in such an unpredictable sport, proving that you can predict her own victories. And Alexandra Nodolo with the really interesting story transitioning from Germany to an African country, Kenya. Very cool story there. No one's heard anything about it. And then in Men's Foil, Ryan Choi coming out of the woodwork, not fully woodwork, but out of Chunkalong's shadow to be the first, you know, athlete other than Miles selected for this event. That's like a big deal. He's been on a tear, he's a world champion, he's been doing great. No, no story there. Michaela Battistan from Italy and My Chamberlain from the USA, both very strong woman Saber fencers. No stories about them. If you want a story from Maya Chamberlain, you can watch our episode with her. There's been no marketing done for woman Saber either. So, really, it's just been a huge publicity stunt for Miles, which is again great for Miles, still good for fencing, getting eyeballs, but it's not drawing the public to the sport. At the end of the day, the public doesn't care that much about Miles. They don't care that much about fencing. This tech is a really cool angle and they've been spinning it super well, but that's not a story. It's just tech and it's really cool tech. But at the end of the day, people will watch football, people will watch fights on mixed martial arts, people watch stuff because of the story, the drama, the excitement. There's been no marketing done for the public to get attached to any of these athletes. They don't know what they're getting into. They're just gonna see fencing maybe and see some cool tech, which I think is probably the biggest piece that was missed leading up to this very exciting event. The potentially the biggest moment or opportunity for fencing outside of an Olympic Games ever.

SPEAKER_02 19:48

Yeah, no, we're in agreement there. I think they've really dropped the ball on marketing and strategy within marketing. I think they've really tried to make up some ground in the last few weeks, and I think they have. I think they've definitely garnered more interest in the last few weeks than they have.

SPEAKER_01 20:02

But it's all coming from this tech.

SPEAKER_02 20:07

Okay, where else then? I think there's been celebrity endorsement that has helped substantially. Uh Keegan Michael Key. Yeah, and what did he do?

SPEAKER_01 20:13

He said He hung out with Miles.

SPEAKER_02 20:15

He hung out with Miles.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

Okay, so it's a publicity stump for Miles.

SPEAKER_02 20:18

Yeah. Okay. Did it? I'm sure it sold at least one ticket.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

Yeah, I know. But what are they watching?

SPEAKER_02 20:24

They're going to watch Keegan Michael Key. Listen, they bought a ticket to the World Fencing League.

SPEAKER_01 20:28

I hear you. What happens after that is up to the good lord. I hear you. I hear you. I'm just saying, I think you could get people more bought in. There could be emotional attachment to this. Sure. Sure.

SPEAKER_02 20:40

There could be. But listen, Ari, we are where we are. You don't need to, you don't need to kick them while they're down. You get down. You gotta lift them down. You gotta lift them up, man.

SPEAKER_01 20:49

You gotta play both sides here. They're not down, Steven. They're up. It's super up. I'm just saying they could have been more up. I think it's a great strategy that was totally missed for event one. And it was available to them. We we even offered the World Fencing League to have some of these athletes come onto the podcast at the very least. And then they, you know, we could cut up clips of their stories, get it out there, talk about the World Fencing League, and it has nothing to do with our podcast. They could have paid anyone to do it. And I just think that's a huge missed opportunity. We could have gotten even more people, and it's not about buying tickets in person, it's about how many people are watching worldwide. Tickets in person is great, but how many people can they fit into the shrine? Probably a lot.

SPEAKER_02 21:32

Probably.

SPEAKER_01 21:32

But not as many as they could fit into the online platforms.

SPEAKER_02 21:35

No, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 21:36

But listen, we are where we are. We are where we are. We are where we are. And I think that and I still let me make one thing clear. Yeah. I'm praying this succeeds. This would be so cool for fencing if we had more than one event, more than one opportunity for fencers to shine, because this is one set of fencers, but if there's another event, there will be more fencers. That get to do this, and more people that get to shine, get to go and express themselves.

SPEAKER_02 22:04

And no project is perfect, right? There were going to be missed opportunities. Including this podcast. Including this podcast. We're stupid. But listen, if they had still done everything you said, there are still going to be missed opportunities and missed optimal strategies here. So yeah, it's it's very easy to critique and it's easy to say where they went wrong. And I'm in agreement with you on a lot of these. But nonetheless, I am very excited to see the final product. I think there is still, because of that, we'll call it bad marketing strategy, right? Uh, because of these missed opportunities, because of this lack of information the public has had, the final product is still a mystery, right? Closer we get to Saturday, the more excited I get, to be perfectly honest with you. I'm really, I'm really curious to see what the final product is. I'm really curious to see how they present the sport and elevate the sport. And I'm super excited. I am pumped to watch this, and I can't wait. You know for a fact we're watching it together. That's the next point I wanted to touch on. And since you've gotten you've done a good job of pointing out all the things they've done wrong, guys, what the hell? It's during Div 1 national championships. You have the best fencers in the country, aside from the handful that are fencing in the World Fencing League or who you know don't need to go to Div 1 nationals because they're going to make the world team regardless, right? That is a small handful, a small subset of the top fencing population, right? Even the middle to lower tier fencing population are still going to go to Div 1 Nationals to compete, right? It's it's the the pinnacle of the season for so many athletes. And the fact that they knowingly chose this date and put the world fencing league debut on this date, I think it's kind of a little spit in the face of a lot of fencers, right?

SPEAKER_01 23:59

It is. That being said, I don't think that the goal of the World Fencing League is to appeal to USA fencers. No, but I think the goal of the World Fencing League is to open up fencing to the world. So now we're switching roles. I'm being a little bit of a devil's advocate. I don't, I think they I think the World Fencing League knows that USA fencers will forgive them if fencing continues to grow. And look, we're gonna be at this tournament, we're still gonna tune in, we still care, we're gonna watch. And I agree. It it it was a little bit of a kick because would we have loved to go to this event? I would have bought tickets, I would have flown to LA.

SPEAKER_02 24:35

I would have flown to LA, I would have bought tickets.

SPEAKER_01 24:36

Yeah, we would have a cool Airbnb, guaranteed. Next thing. So, what else can we explain about this?

SPEAKER_02 24:43

So one one more really grinds my gears. Team Shield, are you kidding me? That is and team blade, team blade, sure, whatever, but like there's no shield inventing. There's no shield inventing. Who the hell wants to be a shield? Well, maybe some people want to be a shield, but definitely figurative old shields figuratively, but if like you're gonna represent like your your whole thing is like I'm team shield, that's so dumb. That they've they've done a good job. I know we complained about the marketing and the the presentation of a lot of aspects of this league. The team names are by far the worst part for me. Like they're they had a lot of those photo shoots with just like fencers who weren't who were very visibly not that good.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

Um, oh yeah, that's another thing. Yeah, fencing has to stop advertising with bad fencers doing fencing actions. Yeah, just just have AI replicate Osangu clenching, just or something, yeah. Um, or if you're spending millions of dollars on this event, just have pay good fencers to get this footage. I hate watching. I yeah. Um, so that's worse than AI Slop to me.

SPEAKER_02 25:52

That is worse than AI slob to me. Um, so that's one. Two is Team Shield. Come on, guys, you gotta come up with a better team name than Team Shield. Yeah, um moving on.

SPEAKER_01 26:03

Let's talk about some of the awesome stuff though. So implementing tech, implementing tech into fencing is a huge deal. Like we have not actually gotten to experience high tech opportunities in fencing, even at the highest level, Steven, you we fenced it world championships, senior world championships, you've fenced in senior world cup final strip. The tech used is obsolete. It's exactly what tech.

SPEAKER_02 26:32

So you know the most tech I've used. You know the most tech I've used in Ukraine. Oh, really?

SPEAKER_01 26:37

For me, I got a fence wireless at world championship.

SPEAKER_02 26:40

I got to fence wireless with the lights in the mask. That's so cool at in Ukraine. That's pretty cool at the Ukrainian knack.

SPEAKER_01 26:49

Well, that's not what it was called, it's called the Averbach, and it doesn't happen anymore. RIP. But it's so cool that they're implementing this tech that, yeah, it's been around, but it is now being showcased to the world. And it is really exciting for fencers to get to fence with that tech. Like, how cool would it be to have a video of you fencing as an athlete with that tracer tech? It's it's unfathomable to watch it anyway. Yeah, you don't watch video of you fencing, but it's unfathomable to most fencers that something this, you know, futuristic and with the times is being brought to a sport that is so archaic. And that is one of the really exciting things about this event. It's an attempt to drag fencing into the future. The FIE has had many opportunities and has continued to fall short on them to bring fencing into the future. Sure, they've upped the presentation of the events, you know, put lipstick on a pig. But you take fencing and you disrupt the format, you disrupt the tech, and you bring this really cool new opportunity for all fencers to view and eventually experience. Like I'd be remiss if I didn't say that uh people will be watching this, investors will be watching this. People with money in deep pockets will be watching this and they're excited about the technology, not just for fencing, for hockey, for other sports where it's hard to track, right? Because only fencers can track the fencing blade. Even fencing parents have a hard time tracking. Even fencers, like we did a live stream the other day and we disagreed on actions. Okay, it was blurry and it was a stream. Just saying. It's true. On it's it when you're not a person.

SPEAKER_02 28:24

It's very difficult. You need a you need a slow-mo replay.

SPEAKER_01 28:26

No, it's good. So kudos to the World Fencing League and Densu for doing this. What other exciting things are there for you? I still want to know what the rules are. Well, we know what the rules are.

SPEAKER_02 28:38

We we kind of they presented the rules.

SPEAKER_01 28:40

It's gonna be cool to see the rule changes happen live. Yeah, I didn't see it. So let's let's cut that part. The rule changes I don't care. I didn't see that. You need better visibility. I'm gonna edit that out, bro. It's fine. Um, keep it in. I think the rule changes are gonna be interesting to see because you know, in fencing, we know that the rules are hard for spectators to see for saber, for foil, and for epe, it's boring for spectators to watch because even though it's easy to understand, it's hard to track the blade when the action happens, B, it's it's not exciting enough for the average spectator just due to low attention spans. And I think it's gonna be really cool to see how this pans out. But back to a qualm that I have. Each match is going to be so short-lived. I am fearful of the fact that we're not actually gonna, we're not actually going to get to see the rules implemented effectively. Each bout, we got to test this out actually together. It is not a lot of time per match, and that's it. It's done. There are two ep A matches, pretty short, two FOIA matches, pretty short, two saber matches, pretty short, unless they're throwing out a surprise for us. I don't believe that the public is gonna get enough time to watch. And I don't believe that the fencers have A, had enough time to train in this new format, B, will have enough opportunities to battle with this format to actually get a good feel for it. And I think there might be some confusion left on the table. That is one of the potential problems with having it in this format, uh, in the in the presentation format of having the six six-person teams. Um, but that's to be seen. Still very exciting, though, to be bringing about rule changes that are so important when we're talking about the viewability and spectatorship of our sport. Uh, what else is exciting here?

SPEAKER_02 30:34

No gambling.

SPEAKER_01 30:35

Which team's winning?

SPEAKER_02 30:36

Which team's winning? Let's look it up. I think Miles' team has to win. I think Miles' team has to win. Come on now, let's see. World fencing league.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

My dream for the World Fencing League is that seconded.

SPEAKER_02 30:56

Let's put beers on this.

SPEAKER_01 30:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 30:58

Alright. Miles over Ryan Choi. That's what I got. Cokie over Girgo.

SPEAKER_01 31:03

Girgo over Kokie.

SPEAKER_02 31:05

Alright. Esther over Nidolo.

SPEAKER_01 31:07

Esther over Nodolo. Sorry, Alexandra.

SPEAKER_02 31:09

Sorry. Umsangook over JPP. Osanguk over anyone. I agree. Um, ooh, women saver. Let's see. You got Maya? I have Maya. You got Maya?

SPEAKER_01 31:23

Maya's fierce right now.

SPEAKER_02 31:25

Pop off Maya.

SPEAKER_01 31:26

Let's go, Maya.

SPEAKER_02 31:27

Team Prior, baby.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

Team Prior is one representative, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 31:30

One representative all the way. All right. Uh, and finally I got Lee. Yeah, I got Lee over anyone. All right. So that's all the matches. That's that's six matches. Alright, so um Lee, one point for Team Blade. Uh Ryan Choi. Ryan Choi, one point for team shield. That would be me. Yeah. Well, I'm just saying.

SPEAKER_01 31:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 31:52

Whatever. Uh Garago Team Blade, Cokey, Team Shield.

SPEAKER_01 31:56

Is Team Shield Ryan?

SPEAKER_02 31:58

Team Shield's Ryan.

SPEAKER_01 31:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 32:00

So I give it to Cokie, man. But uh then Esther's on Team Shield.

SPEAKER_01 32:04

Oh, Team Shield got some bonus points.

SPEAKER_02 32:06

So I think Team Shield's got They have Esther, Choi, Kokie. Yeah. That's that's three that they're kind of Blade.

SPEAKER_01 32:18

Okay. Team Blade has all the Americans.

SPEAKER_02 32:21

Yeah, all the Americans and Garagoo and Oh.

SPEAKER_01 32:26

They're gonna give it to Team Blade.

SPEAKER_02 32:29

Team Blade's gonna take it, dude. They got Lee.

SPEAKER_01 32:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:32

They got Lee, they got Miles, they got Gargoo. Interesting. Interesting. I think it's pretty even, to be honest with you. I think that matchups are pretty even. Um in the end at the end of the day, I'll give it to Team Blade. Who do you give it to? Do you wanna see them? No.

SPEAKER_01 32:48

Team Team Shield. You're taking Team Shield? Yeah, why not? So, other thing. Celebrities at this event.

SPEAKER_00 32:56

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 32:57

Does that make a difference? Will that make people care? Because Miles is friends with celebrities. He's gonna bring in Lewis Hamilton and his entourage, maybe Sean White. Does that make a genuine impact into the watchability of our sport?

SPEAKER_02 33:12

Um you know? Yeah, I think it does. Why? I think if you're watching a UFC fight, right? And you're watching a UFC fight and you don't really care about UFC, but you see that they they pan that camera to these celebs that have shelled out a bunch of money, or not probably not even shelled out a bunch of money, who've been invited to this event in Vegas, right? It adds uh an air of legitimacy, right? Because these people who clearly have better things to do, right? Are are making an evening out of it, right? I think it adds legitimacy to the event.

SPEAKER_01 33:55

Only if wannabe Chef Matt is there.

SPEAKER_02 33:59

I I genuinely think one, it puts more eyes because these people have a lot of eyes on them, even if it's in the form of a short form story or reel or something, right? That's just more eyes on the sport. You never know how many what the conversion rate's gonna be on that. Um it's it's not gonna be a huge conversion of one percent. Better than zero. But when you're talking the numbers that these people have of eyes on them, like it's gonna make no, it's like, oh my gosh, it's gonna move the needle on the five.

SPEAKER_01 34:23

I'm a big fan of Simone Biles, and Simone Biles is posting fencing on her story. Maybe I should be interested in the case.

SPEAKER_02 34:29

Maybe I should click on it, yeah. And you know, then the conversions from clicks are even lower, but like it's one percent of one percent, but that moves the needle for this league that is starting from zero, right?

SPEAKER_01 34:38

Yeah, it's true. So, what else is super important for this to succeed? I think they announced the commentators today.

SPEAKER_02 34:45

Listen, I think commentating is certainly gonna be a challenge for this league, right? You you have one fencer in the box with the other commentators, and you have very, very knowledgeable commentators. I'm sure they're gonna brush up on their fencing knowledge, I'm sure they're gonna review footage, I'm sure they're working with David right now or with Miles to understand the kinds of things that they're gonna be seeing, the kinds of things that they should be calling out, and figuring out in their own way how to explain that to people who don't know what the hell they're seeing. These people are professionals. I think what they've done extremely well is they have gotten professional commentators to come do this. And I'm gonna trust that these professionals will adapt to a new sport and an unfamiliar environment. And so I think a key is going to be good commentary, and I think just given the short the short glimpse I've taken at the resumes of these people, I think they're gonna succeed.

SPEAKER_01 35:37

And it's so important for a sport that they do because if they succeed, they can hook people with their language, their emotions, then then people can get excited about this stuff. People will get excited about these touches. So I'm I'm really hoping they're doing their research, and I'm really excited to see what they bring to the table on Saturday. Yeah, what else is important?

SPEAKER_02 35:56

I don't think you can guarantee the amount of entertainment in these matches, but that goes for any sport. I guess so. I think about some of these we've watched some fights, we've watched big fights together. Or they're just like hugging on the ground. Yeah, so you know what? No, I take that back.

SPEAKER_01 36:12

You take you roll the dice, you roll the dice, roll the dice, you roll the dice. Um, and I mean they did pick some of the best fencers on the planet for this, so it's hard to hard to really go wrong in your decision making when you pick the world's best. I think the the upside is that it's exciting, it's new, there's amazing tech, there is a lot of hype right now. The downsides, the risk factors, not enough storyline, not enough commentary or marketing done on the athletes, as well as a potential format problem with not showing enough of each weapon, not showing enough gameplay for each weapon for the spectators to see potential risk factors. Any anything I missed, Steven?

SPEAKER_02 36:58

No, I think all in all, tune in Saturday. We're gonna have a great event, we're gonna see what could quite possibly be the future of the sport of fencing, but at the end of the day, is something that fencing needs. And I think you know, we've we've addressed rick risk factors, we've addressed shortcomings, but I think they're gonna deliver a show, and I am excited to be a viewer of this show. Me too. And my only regret is that I can't gamble more on it.

SPEAKER_01 37:27

Oh, yeah, and that's another thing. No, no gambling, it's not available on any of the betting sites. You know, there's a lot of moral and ethical conversation around is gambling good? Should it happen? That's not our job to discuss here, but what we should be talking about is the fact that that would bring a lot more attention to this event. And maybe in the future they'll do it, as you said. But even now, look, we're wagering some beers. We're wagering beers on it. We've talked about it before on our show. We wanted to start a league. We were trying to, we didn't get funding in time, and we were trying to do that because it is a gap in our sport. It this is something that our sport needs. We're rooting for the World Fencing League, as you and I said. Like, I you and I are going to be sitting in anticipation, hoping this succeeds. Because if this succeeds, it only builds more opportunity for all fencers everywhere, all eyes on the sport, trying to understand what's going on, learning, getting excited about it, wanting to learn more. It's beautiful. I know we both came out and gave positives and negatives. At the end of the day, we're cheering for this. We're cheering for not just the sport of fencing, but the world fencing league. We know people deeply involved in this project from the athlete side as well as the operation side, exactly. And this is a big moment for them too, because kudos. Like, you guys did you guys are almost at the finish line of executing the biggest thing outside of the Olympics for our sport. Like, how cool is that? How cool is it that fencing is going to be live on streaming platforms everywhere outside of the Olympics? And it's not going to be a blurry YouTube feed that USA Fencing is putting out. It's not going to be some blurry feed uh the FIE is putting out that's cutting halfway through. It is going to be a professionally done show for the world to see. How cool is that? Very cool. I'm I'm just I'm excited and I want to see it. I want to see it succeed. I mean, we are very passionate about the sport, we're very passionate about so many pieces of this journey, and this is a really, really big potential shift for the future of how fencing takes up space on planet Earth and in society. On that note, if you want some good equipment, you should go to preurusa.com. Shop preur USA, baby. And frankly, thank you for tuning in. This was not your standard episode, but it is a very urgent public service announcement. This is coming up tomorrow, and sure as hell, we are gonna be back next week to debrief exactly what happened and without a doubt. Really just praying it goes well and catch you soon. Go team blade. Go team shield, I guess. Um ads?

SPEAKER_02 40:51

I could do an ad.

SPEAKER_01 40:56

See, I'm not that suave of a guy, but when I'm wearing my Prier mask, I sure do feel like one by Prior USA. Get grippy with edge.