An Invitation to Love our Immigrant Neighbour

Speaker: Vince Klassen

Happy Easter!

It's the biggest celebration in the Christian calendar — and this year, we're centering it on the teaching Jesus said mattered most: Love your neighbour.

Simple idea. Surprisingly hard to live out.
Especially when your neighbour grew up somewhere completely different. Lived a life you can't imagine. Works every day just to feel like they belong.

This Sunday, we're sitting down with a couple from our own community - immigrants from South America - to hear their story. Not to debate politics. Not to take sides. Just to know them. Because you can't love who you don't know.

Right now, the word "immigrant" carries a lot of weight. We think that's exactly why it's worth showing up this week.

Come learn how to love more skillfully. Come learn from the words of Jesus.

See you at the Spiritual Gym. 💛

Donate to Friends Church

To donate to this podcast and support the making of more of these please visit https://friendschurch.ca/podcast

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:00

Today is Easter Sunday, which means we're at probably one of the biggest holidays in the Christian calendar. And depending, sorry, Laurie, go ahead. Depending on which of the 70,000 different groups of Christians you are or were inspired by, this holiday means something different. Good Friday is about death. Easter Sunday is usually about life, but again, depending on who you are, life might mean something different. For some, it's the overcoming of death, the apocalyptic message that there's something bigger than death. For some, it has to do with this idea of power. Death seemed to win, and then power happened. To me, when I look at Easter, I don't tend to go into those theological rabbit holes. I tend to think of it more like a funeral. Yeah, Good Friday's death, and this is resurrection to something more. But you know how when you go to a funeral and they start talking about someone's life, it's usually not about their death, it's about the things that they valued. The things they believed in. When I look at Jesus' life, I don't want to just look at this one moment in his life. I'm like, okay, what what what was he about? Or at least what did the authors of the gospel say he's about? And a few of them say, Jesus said, and this was a classic rabbinic thing. If you were a rabbi, a Jewish rabbi, which we see Jesus as being, you did this thing where you said, Hey, my entire message is boiled down to one thing. This is common. When it came to Jesus, he said this Love God. Now I could spend about 6,000 years unpacking that sucker. What does God mean? What does love mean? Put that aside. But then he says, and love your neighbor as yourself. And again, the as as yourself portion. Love your neighbor. What if at Easter we look through that lens? And just like when I when I leave a funeral, I'm often inspired. I'm like, man, I gotta live my life and more intention. Life is short. How that person lived inspired me. What if this is in something that we used to inspire ourselves? That word love, in in Greek, originally this this line was probably in Greek, although it could have been Aramaic. It was written down in Greek. Greek has four words for love. They used agape in this one. Agape, if you translate it or define it, can you start up for me? The quality of warm regard for and interest in another. Bagged is just the name of a lexicon uh dictionary. The quality of kind regard and interest in another. Love your neighbor not in the sense of like I love you. But in the sense of I see you. And I'm interested in your life and your experience. I'm interested in you. This line has stuck with me. A couple months ago I reached out to someone in our community, a couple, they're gonna come up here in a few minutes. They're immigrants from South America. And I remember I I I just wanted to kind of well, maybe agape, I wanted to get to know them a little bit, as I do. But what they said has wormed its way into my mind. The number of times I'm out in the world and I see someone speaking a different language in public, and I have this little sense of like, well, I wonder why they're not speaking English. Or I I see somebody reacting in a way that's like, well, that's not how we do it here. And I realize how much of that is me not having agape for my neighbor. I don't think it was conscious. But now I have their voice in my head, and I I I have these moments where the normal reaction comes up and all of a sudden I'd hear their line, and I'd be like, oh yeah. That's why. And so, in an effort to love our neighbor, to to have agape, to be have interest, I figured right now, with everything going on in the world, if we could be inspired by Jesus' message of get to know, have in have curiosity for our immigrant neighbor, now with everything going on in the world, now is probably a better time than ever to do it. And so as a way to honor the inspiration of Jesus saying, This is my life's message, Agape, your immigrant neighbor. I want us to explore what does that look like? Now, before I do, I just want to tell you what this message is not. Can you put up the first line for me? This message isn't a moral issue. If you don't love our immigrant neighbor perfectly or exactly how they might want, you are not immoral. You are not bad. This isn't you must all do this, or you're a bad person, or you're moral. That's not what I'm trying to say here. What I'm trying to say is, what would it look like to love? But you have a choice there. What that looks like is as unique as you are, I think. Can you put the next one up for me? This isn't a political issue. I'm not doing this as a way to say, friend church, you need to vote this way, you need to whatever. That's on you all. You guys have to deal with how to do that. How do you take something as complex as politics and narrow it down to voting for a single person? Okay, next one. This isn't a friend church issue. We're not saying that if you're not, if you're part of Friend Church, you need to hold a particular stance to this group. This is not your unique spiritual journey. We were driving, we we flew into San Diego, we drove across the border, and then to get to uh Ensenada where we built the house, you have to drive along this road for about 10 minutes, maybe a little bit longer. And right beside you is the wall between the states and Mexico. I was driving, Ted was up front with me, and we both had this kind of like visceral reaction to that. It felt like something. Now, this isn't to say you need to hold a certain stance on immigration. Immigration is way more complex than that. Anyone who takes a c an issue as big as that and says it's a black and white issue, I'm like, okay, time out. It's way more complex. But we both felt something about that wall. Next one for me. Everybody is welcome, no matter where you stand on this issue. We value each person's unique spiritual journey. This is your journey. How you do this, how this shows up in your life, is as unique as you. That's what we believe. But we have one more I'm gonna call it a rule. Rule. Throw it up there. The only thing we ask here at Friend Church is you act lovingly towards everybody. You can disagree with the person sitting next to you. You can think that they're off base, you can think that whatever you want to think, all that we ask is you act lovingly. Fair. So with that said, let's have a break Friend Church welcome for Eddie and Andreas. Thanks, you guys. That's my okay, let's do this. I think we have it all under control. Welcome. Bring the mics up to your mouth. And perfect. Can you just introduce yourself? Because I might have said your names not perfectly.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

Uh good morning, everyone. My name is Andrés. Um, what's your last name? I never heard my last name. Celeste.

SPEAKER_05 8:49

Celas.

SPEAKER_02 8:51

My name is Eddie, and my last name is Aguilar.

SPEAKER_05 8:54

Aguilar. Gotcha. Okay, so obviously you have a bit of an accent. What's your first language?

unknown 9:00

Spanish.

SPEAKER_05 9:00

Spanish. And is there a difference between because you're from South America? Where in South America are you from?

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Colombia.

SPEAKER_05 9:07

Colombia. Is there a difference in the Spanish you speak in Colombia from the Spanish they speak in Mexico?

SPEAKER_00 9:13

No, it's the same language. It's just uh slang, uh different words, but the essence, grammar, everything is the same.

SPEAKER_05 9:20

So you can go there, you can understand. Yes, is it just use different slangs?

SPEAKER_01 9:24

Yeah, different expressions or like words. Okay. For sent things.

SPEAKER_05 9:30

Gotcha. Okay. So uh where did you grow up in Colombia? Give us a little bit of your background.

SPEAKER_01 9:35

So we are from Cali.

SPEAKER_02 9:36

Cali is in the southwest of Colombia. Okay. It's at a warm CD, 30 degrees normally. Okay. Very cold when it's 20 degrees.

SPEAKER_03 9:49

You guys are bundled up, wearing shorts, you guys are like tokes. We stay home. Really? 20 is too cold. Yeah, go for a nap. Sweet mother.

SPEAKER_01 9:57

Cozy.

SPEAKER_05 10:00

Welcome to Canada. Is it on the on the uh ocean side? Like two hours from three, about three hours uh from the ocean. The Pacific. Okay. So hot, warm, big cities, small cities, Motel?

SPEAKER_01 10:14

Big cities, like a third. Big big city.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

Third population. Okay. About three million, two point five million people.

SPEAKER_05 10:21

Okay, so we're solid here. And your family's all from the same city, or did you no?

SPEAKER_00 10:26

My family is from the north. Okay. From the Caribbean coast. Okay. They immigrated or moved to the south, or this is south of Colombia. Okay. Uh their parents are from not that far from from our city, Cali.

SPEAKER_02 10:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

Where are they from? Different countries?

SPEAKER_02 10:43

Um from another like province. Okay. Uh it's like the if someone knows Colombia, it's like the coffee uh bar of the country.

SPEAKER_05 10:52

We know coffee. Okay. So obviously you're here. You have two boys. Were your boys born there or were they born here? Here. Okay, so you guys are you're married, you got together in Colombia, yeah. Got married in Colombia?

SPEAKER_02 11:07

Got married, yeah. You cannot leave home without getting married.

SPEAKER_05 11:10

What? There's like rules?

SPEAKER_02 11:12

Yeah, yeah. That's like the Catholic way.

SPEAKER_05 11:15

Oh, okay. Your grandmother's giving you one of these if you okay. So you guys got married, big wedding ceremony, or is it like Catholic sprinkle?

SPEAKER_02 11:24

Like but with family and friends.

SPEAKER_05 11:26

Gotcha. When did you guys start to think we maybe need to move someplace else?

SPEAKER_00 11:32

That was my idea. Your idea, okay. Oh, really? When I turned 30, I'm like, okay, what am I doing here? Uh job opportunities. I studied uh electronic engineer back home. Okay. And opportunities for an engineer were not uh enough. Okay. Uh getting a job wasn't wasn't easy. Sometimes it's not like for everyone, but for me it wasn't easy. Okay. And then I'm like, okay, I want to do something better. And if I have kids one day, I want them to have a better opportunities. Okay. It was not about violence or all the uh things people hear about uh Colombian or countries in South America. Uh there was there's there are many things going on there, but it was not because of that.

SPEAKER_05 12:18

It's just so the violence was just extra stuff. Yes, it was actually for jobs.

SPEAKER_02 12:24

It was more like a life plan for us. It's like, okay, we want better opportunities where we can move, and then Canada has like an immigration process uh that we can apply, and then we can show your uh like what you have done or your um professions, and then you can move. So and then we need we wanted to be like permanent residents, right?

SPEAKER_05 12:52

Right, so you had a plan, but back it up, just so you know, our midlife crisis is in our 50s, so you're coming up for a new one here. Okay, it's just how we roll. 30s, we don't have them. We start late, we're late bloomers. So Andreas comes home one day, he's like, Hey, I think we should immigrate someplace else. What was your thought?

SPEAKER_02 13:10

So we were dating at the time. Okay, not married, uh, but he just said, Look, there is uh this opportunity in you people that have done this process. Okay, do you want to do it? So we said, okay. So it took like around three years.

SPEAKER_05 13:26

Just one second.

SPEAKER_03 13:26

You said okay?

SPEAKER_02 13:28

Yeah, like why not?

SPEAKER_03 13:30

Why not move to another country with a language we don't speak that regularly goes to minus 30?

SPEAKER_02 13:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:36

Why not?

SPEAKER_02 13:38

I think we didn't we didn't know a lot of things back then. Okay. But like my minus 30, nothing like that.

SPEAKER_05 13:51

Oh, it can't be that bad. Now, when you first so why did you pick Canada? I never asked you guys that.

SPEAKER_00 13:57

Um, so the very few options we had were either moving to uh Australia. Okay. They have like an immigration program you could apply with a degree. Right. Uh it's easier. Uh Canada was the other one, or the the the last resort, like moving to States just as a tourist. Uh that was like no.

SPEAKER_05 14:18

Good pick on Canada on that one.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

And then we came across uh, I had a friend. He moved to two friends. They moved before us to to Quebec. Um, and they gave me ideas like you can do this, that. And Quebec had like a good process explained in the website.

SPEAKER_04 14:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:38

So we just followed that process and it was easier to apply it and and get the PR.

SPEAKER_05 14:44

Now, okay, electrical engineering, what's your degree in?

SPEAKER_02 14:47

Um marketing and international business.

SPEAKER_05 14:50

Marketing international business. Okay. So you guys were all smarty pants. Is that important for immigration? Like you need to have a certain level of education.

SPEAKER_02 14:57

So with the process that we did, it was like you need to be professional. Ah, gotcha. I think also they take in consideration your age.

SPEAKER_05 15:06

Right. Um a bunch of things. Experience. Now, what you guys probably don't know is you guys first immigrated to Montreal, right? Correct. So you went from Spanish to French. How long?

SPEAKER_00 15:20

How is your French? Yeah. No, back then it was better. I mean, when we moved. So the process was we had to study French because you have to um you have to have certain levels and the and then you need to qualify to that. Back then we had to do a test. Then we with that level, with that certification, uh the we got the PR. Uh we studied in the Alliance Frances in our home. Okay. And then we moved to Quebec. But ours our level was uh just easily not not that good. Okay in French.

SPEAKER_05 15:55

But you guys went from Spanish to French. You hadn't learned English yet.

SPEAKER_02 15:59

Uh I knew English, but again, we learn English at school, but it's like basic.

SPEAKER_05 16:04

Kind of like what I learned French. Yes. I can swear, and that's about it. Okay. Um where did the boys can when were the boys born?

SPEAKER_02 16:12

They so they uh we have been here 16 years and they were born in 2017, so they are nine years.

SPEAKER_05 16:21

When did you come to Calgary? First, how did you get to Cal? What did when did you come?

SPEAKER_00 16:25

So we moved to uh Montreal. Okay and then I was uh doing like a job search program. Okay. I opened my for the first time the LinkedIn account, getting contact to a friend that was living here.

SPEAKER_04 16:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:41

He uh told me what are you doing, and then long story short, I applied to a job. Uh he referred me. So I applied to this job and got the job in Calgary. Ah uh at some point I I studied French and English, and the little English I learned helped me getting this job. Okay. Working for a so-to-speak engineering company. Okay. Uh it's a valve automation company. And I moved here in 2012 first.

SPEAKER_05 17:09

Was there ever a time in this process that you thought to yourself, what are we doing?

SPEAKER_00 17:16

All the time.

SPEAKER_02 17:18

Like I just want to go home and like many times about um I so I think I mentioned you when we were talking before, is like I've never I think for us, this is home, right?

SPEAKER_06 17:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 17:35

Uh, but um, but it's still like um like we don't feel from here or from there anymore. Right. Right. So sometimes we miss, like I missed people, like family, because again, we came the two of us.

SPEAKER_04 17:50

Right.

SPEAKER_02 17:50

Now we have kids, so they are our family. Uh but but yes, it's like the people and different cultural things that we miss.

SPEAKER_05 18:01

So there's times where you were just like we should just stay in Colombia.

SPEAKER_02 18:06

I think I've never thought about like we should go back. No, we never thought about retirement for sure.

SPEAKER_05 18:13

Oh, really? So you want to retire back in Colombia?

SPEAKER_02 18:16

Like I yeah, in a warmer place again. What's with the temperature?

SPEAKER_05 18:23

Okay, so now we got you centered here in Calgary. We got you here. The boys are born here, okay. Uh and their names are Samuel and Sebastian. Sebastian Twins Nine. Nine. Okay. The thing that it was so mind-opening to me was when you started to talk about what Canadian culture feels like when you didn't you're not born into it. I remember I was I was actually walking down the aisle here the other day, and Andres, you were over here, and I told you guys, hug me in a way that makes sense for you guys culturally. And I came down the aisle and then you just got up and hugged me, and I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, what we just go right in for the hug here. And I remember thinking, what a Canadian way of thinking about this. So tell me how when you first come, how does space work? Physical space, closeness to people. How does that how did that feel when you first came here?

SPEAKER_02 19:26

Um, so we and when I mention as well that I don't feel from here or from there, like I noticed that when I go back, I feel like people are too close to me. Oh but here it's too far from me.

SPEAKER_05 19:41

So even physically, how far you stand away? We stand too far away.

SPEAKER_02 19:44

Yeah, sometimes you have people talking to you, and now I feel like well, you're too too too close, right?

SPEAKER_05 19:53

We call them close talkers, we don't like that.

SPEAKER_02 19:56

But it but I think for us it's like that's the way so you guys are constantly navigating space.

SPEAKER_05 20:03

So what feels like for you would be we stand a little closer. What feels like for the person you're talking to, you know, a little bit further. How much when you first came here, how much conscious thought did you put into how much distance do I need to put between me and the person I'm talking to?

SPEAKER_02 20:19

I think we always think about it.

SPEAKER_05 20:22

Even now.

SPEAKER_02 20:22

Um not anymore, because again, we we we now we we can feel like if if I see you uncomfortable, I can feel it, feel it, and see it.

SPEAKER_05 20:33

So you can actually do it more naturally, but even still, you're doing like Yeah, I think so. Are we the right distance apart? Because I can feel I'm leaning back. This feels okay. This feels more normal to me.

SPEAKER_00 20:53

Um I'm not like a super hugger, but I I like hugging. Handshaking in my case, uh, with every uh every person, even though you don't meet you don't know them, you handshake. Okay. Here is a little bit different. Uh, some people don't like handshaking, especially after COVID. That is like the people don't that maybe don't want to touch your hand. But we are handshakers, so I can handshake every single person without knowing them. Whereas here, the uh people keeps always a distance.

SPEAKER_05 21:24

Okay, let me just who in the crowd's a hugger? Anyone should put up your hands? Well, there's a lot of y'all. Who's not a hugger? Now we're talking. I I remember sitting with them, we were sitting over at Marcus's ice cream place, we're sitting outside, and I said, Well, when do you hug? And they're like, Well, all the time. And I'm like, Okay, but like, if I just saw you, would we hug? They're like, Yep. If I said goodbye to you, would we hug? Yeah. If I just saw you a couple hours ago, would we hug? Yeah. And I was like, Holy crap, like, that's all the time. How does it feel? Like, do you have do you find there's kind of times when you want to go in and you're like, oh no, no, no. Again, you're reading that, you're constantly reading that, trying to figure out what the other person wants, how do I react to that?

SPEAKER_02 22:11

So now we are more conscious, and again, we don't hack. And for example, for me, and again, Andres is different. Obviously, we are two different people, even if we are from the same country and everything. Um, I'm more expressive and I I need to touch, right? So uh, like even at work, I I just put beyond the shoulder, just hug.

SPEAKER_05 22:38

But you would normally want to hug them.

SPEAKER_02 22:41

Um, not not now.

SPEAKER_05 22:46

I don't know, it's different again because in Colombia you would have. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:50

Because again, in for example, in in the workplace also, like we became friends with your co-workers, right? Here is like work, home. Like, and I don't know if it's where I I've been moving around, but like you are not friends with your co-workers in Colombia, your co-workers are your friends.

SPEAKER_05 23:12

So you invite them over socially and all that. Yeah. I was as you said, I tapped my people as like HR would not like that if you touched your employees. You said something that really hit me. Your original language is in Spanish. You said I'm a different person in English. Can you describe a little bit of what that feels like?

SPEAKER_02 23:33

I I think how it feels. It's like I I mentioned that I feel a different person. And again, because I learn English and I normally interact in English in the workplace, right? I I speak Spanish at home, I speak Spanish with my kids, with my husband, with my friends. So English is like the serious part of me, right? So and again, so yeah, I'm like another person in English.

SPEAKER_05 24:05

You described it as in Spanish, I'm like funny, I'm lighthearted. In English, I'm serious. Is that how it feels to you?

SPEAKER_02 24:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 24:15

Do you crack jokes in English in the same way you would in Spanish?

SPEAKER_02 24:20

Not really. Sometimes people don't even understand what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_05 24:25

What does it feel like to be a different person here? How does that impact you?

SPEAKER_06 24:38

I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 24:40

I remember when you first told me you kind of teared up and you were like, it's like I can't be myself here. Is that how it feels?

SPEAKER_02 24:48

Yeah, sometimes again, because it's not um again, we normally are judging also ourselves when we speak and we say, oh, this person might think I'm dumb, or because again, uh like I I have I've been here 16 years, so I I may have like a 16-year-old vocabulary, right? So so again, like it's like feeling less, or like are they judging me because I they're looking down on you. That's right.

SPEAKER_04 25:17

Do you feel the same way?

SPEAKER_00 25:18

Yes, and you know, there's something funny. We went yesterday to um uh ex hunt with the kids in a park, yeah, with a playground by uh the place where we were we were, or the kids were getting the ex and I was screaming to my kids, hey, don't do this, or come. Uh and Eddie was like, Stop screaming. I'm like, I'm Colombian, I like screaming. We're noisy, we're noisy, noise. It doesn't mean that people here know like that, but yeah, I think it's different. So she made me a word of don't be noisy, right? Like, okay, yes, but I am not fully from here.

SPEAKER_05 25:59

Well, one of the things I was thinking a lot about you, uh Hold, can you throw up their model of uh I, they, we? We have this whole model where it's like I and they, and we find this balance in we. The thing I've been thinking about, in fact, since we coming back from Mexico, how do you think of the balance? If you guys are I, we are Colombian, we yell, we hug, we talk close, we we do all these things, but they, the people who are born in Canada, we're all Canadians, but the people who are born here, it's different from them. How do you find the balance between those? How do you find the we where you're like, it's not just we become someone different and like I don't yell and I don't hug, and I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, because you need to be present too. How do you think of that balance?

SPEAKER_02 26:43

You look like you're No, that's difficult because again, so sometimes it's again, it's to put in the choice of the other. Like I cannot pretend someone to to do things the way I do because just for me to come feel comfortable, is is to have that balance of understanding how the culture works. And for example, if if like I said I've been here 16 years and like I don't have friends, Canadian friends, right? Like normally my friends are from Colombia or even immigrants from other countries. Um, but again, maybe because for me, friendship is different, it's like inviting you to your home or do things together, and maybe Canadians are different.

SPEAKER_05 27:36

So for you, you skew a little bit towards them. What makes them feel comfortable? What makes them what I'm hearing from you is I'm Colombian, we yell. That's how I roll. Do you find that you guys are the same in how you balance this out? Us versus the the culture around us? Do you ever find, you know, he's doing something you're like, shh, or he's she's doing something you're like, hey, no, no, no, that's not how we do it here. How do you guys find that balance? And is it the same for the both of you?

SPEAKER_00 28:06

That's a good question. I think uh uh to me it's been a transition from when we moved, uh it was I the I then. Um and the the more we learned about the culture, the the differences, uh the more we became we. And now I feel it's we, and we come here, and we feel we feel we, and everywhere we go, we feel the the we. And and you know, uh I wanna say something. We love Canada. We love the people here. People here is amazing. And we feel uh Eddie said that we feel here home. Uh winter, summer will be like any any season. Okay. Um it's just that sometimes we I cannot deny that I'm from Colombia and I have certain things. Yesterday I screamed, it's me, it's like it's in my roots. Yeah. But then I just relax and and become part of the society.

SPEAKER_05 29:08

Have you ever had someone react badly where you were talking about like you're like, if I take the bus to work every day and I see the same people, I'm gonna become friends with them. Like in Columbia, we would like we'd chat and I'd invite them over for dinner, and like within a week or two, we'd be like friends. Whereas in Canada, there's a rule, you don't talk to anyone on the bus, it's just not how we roll. How do you find do you ever find that you kind of do it one way that would feel more natural to you and people react poorly? Or can you just note can you just read them? Like you can tell, like, oh, they wouldn't has anyone ever reacted badly? Nothing?

unknown 29:45

No.

SPEAKER_05 29:45

Thank goodness. Because I was thinking some of us. Nothing for you either.

SPEAKER_00 29:52

Sometimes uh uh people make fun of your oxen, but it's okay. I actually at some point at some point uh uh when I moved here at work, uh people made fun of me because we s we say chocolate, and they wanted me to say chocolate, and I'm like uh chocolate, and I knew they were trying to just make fun. Okay, and then uh one time made me feel not good, but then the more I did it, the uh I started like making fun of myself and that was fun. Uh sometimes uh I mixed up words and said something instead of something else. I I worked in an environment where they have bulbs that are called like waffles, and I I called it uh I called it differently. And the my coworker was just making me repeat the same words. Say it again. I'm like, uh why? And he was making just fun of me. But it was it's in this situation, it was a fun and I enjoyed it. And then if I make mistakes, I'm okay with that. I'm uh I'm no longer worried about uh if if you don't you don't understand me, I try to look for words that make sense, maybe mispronounce things. Um it's just that uh uh I'm I'm okay. Maybe it's like uh a confidence you build, and then the more confident you feel, okay. I I I know now that I can speak, maybe I cannot speak perfect, I cannot sound like you, I don't want to sound like you because I'm me. Yeah. Um but I just I'm okay with that.

SPEAKER_05 31:31

But there's a side, and you talked about it, you said it's like people look at me like I'm dumb. I'm educated, I know my area well, but because of the language and how I speak in English, the question is, do they look down on me? You guys must have had to wrestle that through. Like you said, at first it was kind of painful, and I was like, this isn't going away. I can't suddenly be fluent in English like that tomorrow. I have to be confident in myself to be able to navigate this world. Is that right? Yeah, okay. Did you have to do the same thing? No, like there's a time when you're like, okay, this is just who I am. Love me the way.

SPEAKER_02 32:08

And again, communication is the listener and the person who talked. So again, this other person uh needs to be also open. And I I feel also, but I also understand that English, if you say a T instead of an S or something, is like a totally different word, right?

SPEAKER_04 32:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 32:30

Um, but I sometimes think, can you just figure it out? Like are you gonna just put things together?

SPEAKER_03 32:39

Come on, like what don't be a snuggler for the word.

SPEAKER_02 32:43

Spanish is is like that, but I feel like when when people speak Spanish.

SPEAKER_05 32:47

In Spanish, if you mix up things a little bit, it's still like it's nunca's nunca's nunca.

SPEAKER_02 32:52

No, it's just like, for example, I I I feel that when people want to speak Spanish, like we enjoy seeing like seeing people wanted to speak Spanish. Right. And even if you say something totally off, we we we get the message. Okay, right?

SPEAKER_05 33:09

It's like you try and get the message as opposed to like if you're not gonna say it perfectly, I'm not gonna know what that word is.

SPEAKER_02 33:14

So so so then, but maybe it's because it's totally a different word that that really you cannot figure it out.

SPEAKER_05 33:22

Right. As we look back through right now, we're in a time when immigrant is a really tricky word in politics and culture. How does this current time we're living in, how has that impacted you guys?

SPEAKER_02 33:42

I'm gonna talk about my for myself.

SPEAKER_05 33:46

And she also said to me, this is our experience, not all immigrants. So this is their experience, please.

SPEAKER_02 33:52

No, but I I always feel that Canada is like the best place to be as an immigrant. Um I watch a lot of news from the US that I should not watch because it's very like painful. Part of the mental health. But I I have a sister that is she lives in the US for about 22 years now. Um uh but no, I I just feel that that it's like you said at the beginning, is just to get to know and ask questions, be be curious about other people's ways, ways to do things. But I understand as well that as an immigrant, you should integrate, you should not lose your roots. Because, for example, for me, my kids, they speak Spanish at home. They and sometimes they ask them, where are you from? And they look at me because they are not sure. And I said, You aren't from Canada, you are Canadian, right? But because they speak Spanish, they may get confused why we speak Spanish if we are from Canada.

SPEAKER_05 35:04

Why do you have them speak Spanish at home? Because this really impacted me.

SPEAKER_02 35:07

Oh yeah. No, so mainly is because, for example, my parents they don't speak English. So we want uh like I want them if they go to Colombia, they I don't want to sound like a gringo, like I to speak Spanish perfectly, and also I feel that when you speak another language, like if for you to be able to help someone in their language, that's like like like having another language on your pocket, like you know, to know, is is very powerful. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 35:46

When you said all of my my family mostly speaks Spanish, if my kids lose Spanish, they lose connection to their family. That really hit me hard. And now when I look at people who speak with an accent, I think to myself, their language is what connects them to their world. And to take that away to make them Canadian means that we have to disconnect them from family. That really hit me hard. Thank you for sharing that one, because that one ever since you said that, I keep thinking, and yet I have in my head, well, why aren't you speaking English the way I speak English? But you're right, it's more powerful to speak. You go to banks now and they're like, here's all the languages we speak. Like, that's really powerful, even as a way to take water, right? To speak to somebody in their own language. Yeah, you guys have really changed my thinking on that. Andres, anything you want to add to that?

SPEAKER_00 36:42

To the kids.

SPEAKER_05 36:44

Kids, but what is it like the immigration conversation right now? Immigrant is often a very tricky word in the political dialogue. How does that impact you?

SPEAKER_00 36:56

So I I I I see things now because it's it's interesting. Even though I'm I am an immigrant, uh right now, in the last uh few years, maybe the government, Canada, has allowed more than what they can get uh as immigrants. So they have opened the door for uh people to move here. And I see the health system maybe not providing the best uh service, uh people not getting access to certain basic services. So I'm like, what is the country bringing so many people when they cannot provide for the people that is living here? So that makes no sense to me. Um and it's it's I don't know if it's contradictory or not, but I feel that like they shouldn't bring more, more, more, more just because they wanna please someone or uh but that's rather for the politics to figure it out. But we have to figure things out here, so but I don't know, like moving here has been has been um a beautiful challenge to to to live. Um we have gone, as I said, it's been a transition from I, them to we. And it's been a way to demonstrate ourselves that we're capable of many things. Nice. Uh overcome situations. Okay. Uh and I never look back at I want to go back home or or or no, this is home, and uh I'm growing here, I want to become better here, I don't want to move back home.

SPEAKER_05 38:35

Okay, I want to have one more question. Can you interrupt the model again for me? Uh Holly just stepped away from the computer. This is gonna be hard for you guys, but I want you to try. If we, so like part of Canada who is not immigrants, how do we love you all better? How do we, if you go like the odd, here's what I like? We hugs every time, we close talk, we do like you get to pick whatever you want. What's the thing that you would like Canadians who are born here versus Canadians who are immigrants? What would you like us to know to love you better?

SPEAKER_02 39:12

Hmm, I will say that I think everyone that is here and come here like are really doing their best to to become like a better person, right? Um yeah, like people come here because we see Canada as the country of opportunities where you know like that can become better, right? So I I think, and again, I speak myself, right? Because I don't know the other who what would the other people think or right? But but again, everyone comes here for a better life, but obviously, like we don't we don't want to let go of our culture or yeah, certain certain things because that's part of us, yeah that make us us, right?

SPEAKER_05 40:06

Like it's it's like just being curious of like you will be very amazed if you talk to someone that is from another culture and how they celebrate things or how they what kind of food they eat, or yeah, so it's it's it makes us better to to ask questions and so for you just be curious, except that there's a part that they bring from another country that's part of this and it enriches us all. Is that anything you want to add, Andres?

SPEAKER_00 40:40

Besides be curious, even though we look different and speak different, it makes we're we're the same. Um and we have many things to share. We have many things to share that we're not different. I don't feel that uh I'm different here, but sometimes I I do.

SPEAKER_05 41:01

I want to leave it, that's where I want to end the interview. We are not different. We might talk different, we might look different, although you guys don't look that different, but whatever. We are all humans first. That's beautiful. Thank you guys.

SPEAKER_04 41:23

Thank you. Thank you. Well done. Oh boy.

SPEAKER_05 41:31

The thing that I've noticed the most is often when people from other places are working the hardest to look like us, we see them the least. That's my takeaway. If the Jesus story is about that message, agape, to get to know and be curious about the people around you. My encouragement this week is to notice. Even as she was talking, uh Eddie said, You guys are so careful about your words. If I make one little mistake you point out, in my head, I can realize while she's talking, I'm like, oh yeah, that's not said right. Oh crap, I'm doing it right now. Be mindful as a way to love. Now, I want to transition into the classic French church Easter service. A friend of mine, I don't know how much I can share. There was an accident at work and it went horrible. Horrible. Someone died. And he's sitting there with this thing in his head that says, What could I have done? How could I have done more to protect the people that I care about? It's stuck in his head. When he's trying to go to sleep, it's spinning over and over again. We as humans have these things in us. We make mistakes, we we don't live up to who we want to be, we we fail, we have weaknesses, we whatever your thing is, that is part of the human condition. We have times where we screw up and we don't live to who we want to be. How do we let go of those moments? How do we get free of the mistakes that we make? The guilt, the shame. Every religion, every major religion has a process to help us get freedom from the things that we did not do well this year. Our tradition has one. Classically, it's done through this time because as Easter is tied to a more ancient story of past. Over. But even more than that, it's part of the larger tradition that says when you have something that you can't get freedom from, where you need to let it go, you need to get free from it, you need a way to do it. Our brains seem to need a way to do it. You can't just say, okay, let go of that. It doesn't work that way. We need a ritual. Our ritual is this. Normally they use a scapegoat, which is you take the thing, the mistake you made, the thing that you did wrong, the screw up, the failure. And you symbolically put it on something. In the Jewish tradition, it was an animal. They put it on an animal. Then they kick the animal out into the desert and let it die. The symbol is that is not mine anymore. That goes away. And I am free. Today I want to invite you to that freedom. We don't. The SPCA doesn't let us tie things to animals and send it out to the wilderness and kill them. Sucks to be them, but whatever. We have our own way of doing it. You saw there's pieces of paper and pencils on your on your chair. I encourage you. Just hide it. Like, don't let the person next to you see it. Write whatever. You don't need to write it all out fully. Take the thing that this year is still stuck in your mind. The thing you can't let go of, the thing you can't be free of. Just write down, just write. Sometimes I just write a letter because I know what it is. I don't need to write it all down. It's not like I have to write it, and that's what works. It's the process of saying, I choose to let this go. For me, I'm realizing how I talk to people who aren't native English speakers. It's not my best moment. As I think back through, I realize I have some things in my marriage that I need to let go of. Mistakes I made. I look through my life and think, oh, you know what? In my darkest times, that's the voice, that's the part that talks to me. Just take that piece of paper, write down whatever it is. It can be a symbol. It doesn't, again, it's not the language, it's the ritual. Write down what you need to be free of this year. And then crumple that piece of paper up so no one can see it. And we're going to go outside. There's a barrel outside. We're going to throw them all in there. We're not going to read them, not going to look at them. We're going to throw them all in there. I'm going to doust it with lighter fluid and we're going to light it on fire. And we will be free.