The Relationships You Actually Want

There's probably someone in your life right now who's a little more distant than you'd like. A relationship that's a little harder than it needs to be. And if you're honest, somewhere in the back of your mind, you already know why. Something happened - something you did, or maybe something you've been doing for years without realizing it - and now you're paying for it. We all have patterns in our relationships that are quietly costing us way more than we realize. Not in dramatic blow-up ways, but in the slow accumulation of distance, resentment, and walls we didn't mean to build. This Sunday we're starting a new series about what it actually looks like to stop creating those costs - and start building the kind of relationships you actually want. I'm going to start by telling you about a mistake I made that followed me for a decade.

Come ready to be honest with yourself. See you at the Spiritual Gym

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Jeff and I worked together for many years. Uh, 15 plus, we co-led Friends Church. And for the most part, we had a great relationship, with one exception. And Jeff and I have talked about this publicly before. And it starts off with this song. But I'm going to come back to it. I remember sitting in a meeting with Jeff one day, and and you know, as was our jobs, we were trying to figure out what things does Friend Church need to become the healthiest version of Friend Church possible. What do we need to do? And I and I'd come to him and I'd say, hey Jeff, I think we should launch whatever program, this program here. And almost inevitably, he would go like this. And I'd be like, no, Jeff, no. It'll be great. Like, come on, all I need you to do is just like, we'll do this thing, and you know, it'll impact our community, and we want to inspire our community. This will inspire them. Fifteen years of that. Meeting after meeting after meeting, just nothing but this. Finally, I'm like, what like I won't use the words I use, but there was a lot of swearing. What the half is going on here? And he said something that like it floored me. This is when I realized what that song means in life. He said, Vince, if I say yes to what you're talking about here, what else am I saying yes to? Uh, I don't know just what I asked you. What are you talking about? There was a time you walked me down a chain of yeses. But you hid something underneath it. And then a couple weeks later, when I said, No, no, no, no, not that. You said, Oh Vince, or sorry, oh Jeff. But you said yes already. I snuck it in underneath. Honestly, I don't remember. Should I say I don't remember which time I did that? Maybe I don't I don't remember doing that. I can see myself doing that. I can see myself there. The question, the question I think that was I was left with was I sure as hell hope that whatever I snuck in there that first time, it was epically good. Because I've paid for this for 15 years. And Friend Church paid for this for 15 years. We had to have twice the number of meetings we normally would have. It was never smooth, it was never like, hey, having this idea. Yeah, yeah, I think there's some tweaking. Perfect, yeah, let's do that. Perfect, let's do it. It was never like that. Because of that moment, that wrecked something between us. Anyone have, if you're honest, a conversation in your mind with someone where they were like, hey, you always or you never. It's that moment of something in your past just kind of bitch in the butt here. I had a friend. And this is like this is just so us, so human. His neighbor had a tree growing in his yard, and there was a fence, but the tree branch, I know trees don't think of like property divides, grew into his yard. So what does he do? Does he go and talk to the person? No, he just takes his chainsaw one day and just go like yoink, guns in. I like people like, yeah, that's that's legit. Totally legit. He's lived there, I don't know, maybe 20 years. There is not one minute past shovel clearing his sidewalk that if his sidewalk's not clear, the bylaw's not been called. There is not one thing that happens in his life that his neighbor, it's literally his neighbor sitting there at his window waiting for any infraction with like 311 on speed dial. And there we go. The amount of work and pain and suffering my friend has experienced for cutting down a damn tree branch. How long do you think it would have gone to be like, hey, Bill, can I cut down that tree? It's in my shirt. Yeah, okay, but can you do it this way? Yeah, sure, no problem. Right? Five-minute phone or conversation. 20 some bylaw complaints. We think it's simple, right? I I'll just avoid this. There will be no consequences. It won't be a problem. And then we have 15 years of meetings like this. Because I wreck trust. And it doesn't just work this way where you do something to somebody else. I was gonna tell you to put up your hand. Don't put up your hand. Anyone ever have someone say to you, hey, can you do something for me? And you really don't want to do it, but you're like, ah, it's just easier to just do it. You're not supposed to indicate. So people are like, yeah, I want to tell the world. And you think, what's the harm? It's just one little thing. It's just, it's just this, until 20 years later, it's like the world thinks of you as their assistant. You're burnt out and resentful as shit. Why? Because you said yes when the honest answer is no.

SPEAKER_02 6:27

I do not want that.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

We think at that time, I can just suck it up one more time. I did my whole family, we were trained in intimate relationships, like in with our partner, we are trained to do this. Is it healthy? I thought it was. Until I need to push somebody away, until I need space, until I need I'm resentful until all of a sudden I react to something normal with a much bigger tone than I needed.

SPEAKER_02 7:00

Because I said yes when I should have said no. We think avoiding the argument will make it easier.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

And yet that sits with us years, decades. Friend of mine, a single mom, has some kids. The parents always done everything for the kids, right? Classic parent mode, right? Whatever your kid needs, you need to do. I can't believe you're asking this of us. I cannot do this. Do you know my life? And you're looking at them going, you ungrateful sons of you're not allowed to say that, but you're thinking that, right? Why? Because over the last however many years, instead of saying, no, you're old enough to learn that. No, you're old enough to do that. I know life is hard, and you'll figure it out. And now you're paying the price. It's sobering, isn't it, when you kind of like just like pull it all back and look at it and go like, oh why do we do this?

SPEAKER_02 8:47

Why?

SPEAKER_00 8:49

I think it's because in those moments, we're not seeing the future. Let me tell it to you this way. Um, a couple weeks ago I told the story about Jacob. Do you guys remember a guy named Jacob Trickster? He has the story of Peneal where he's he wrestles with, I think, himself, and he says, I saw the face of God. Well, Jacob, the the story of his name starts earlier. And the story starts so badly that it costs half of his net worth to figure it out, to solve the problem he creates. I could tell it to you guys in the ancient Near East way, but it's complex. So let me modernize it. I'm gonna put it in succession terms. Jacob, older brother Esau, both work for the same company for their dad. They have separate mums, so it's a splendid family situation. One day the dad calls in Esau, the oldest, and says, Here's the deal. My eyesight is starting to go. You can tell I can hardly see anything. I can't read a computer anymore. I walk with a cane. It's brutal. I need to get out of this thing. So here's the deal: I want you to go to this customer, get them to sign a contract, a big contract, and when it's done, I'll give you the company. Not too bad, huh? Except for Jacob's mom is sitting in the waiting room, waiting to take her husband to a doctor's appointment. And she hears, wait a second. Esau? What about my Jacob? What's he gonna get? And so she very quickly she calls in Jacob. She's like, Jacob, you need to come here. Here's what's gonna happen. You're gonna lose everything. So here's what we're gonna do. Here's what we're gonna do. You're gonna go and get that deal signed. You work in the same company, you know the same people, get the deal signed ahead of them, and then you're gonna come back to your dad and show him that you got the deal signed. And Jacob's like, uh, Mom, you know I am not Esau, right? She's like, No, no. We'll dress you up like Esau. Put you in his suit, put in his clone. Your dad can't see crap.

SPEAKER_02 11:07

It'll be fine. And Jacob goes, Yeah, that could work.

SPEAKER_00 11:21

Just put yourself in that moment. The mom and the son are sitting there going, We are going to tell our blind or half-blind father that you're your brother, you're gonna steal the company from your brother, which is promised and has always been that way. And how do we think this is gonna go down after that? People are magically gonna forget that this happened? Why isn't Nisar running the company? I don't know. Jacob is. Of course not. And yet, this is the moment that we're all in, right? Talk to my neighbor, cut down his tree. Future's gonna take care of itself. That'll be fine, right? So, of course, Jacob gets the deal signed, puts on his brother's suit, puts on his brother's clone. Father's like, I can't see you, you know, Mr. Magoo style, but you smell right, you your clothes feel right, great, you're done. You're now the boss. Two days later, Esau comes home with the contract signed. Trying to find his dad, Dad, why aren't you at the office? Well, I gave you the company, why would it be at the office? And we start the beginning of the consequences of our actions. The thing we pushed into the future just showed up. Esau is livid. Rightly so. Livid. He's like, Dad, what the that SOB brother of mine is always doing this stuff to me. This is why Jacob's name, another way of saying it, is trickster. This is the trick that he does. This is the thing that's foundational to his life, and it's not even just this moment, it's a way of not thinking about the future. And it's so paradigmatic. Because you look at our situation, you know, the time you, you know, you had a bad day, and someone comes to you and you blow up at them and you yell, and you're thinking to yourself, oh, this is just this moment. It's not, you know, whatever, I'm just having a bad day. But it's not just that, is it?

SPEAKER_02 13:51

That's Jacob mindset. The future won't ever happen.

SPEAKER_00 13:58

I'll be fine. Until the future shows up. Esau says to his father, like, I don't even know. You can't tell in the way it's worded if he's like angry or if he's sad. I would go with angry, but that's me projecting, maybe. I'd be angry. He says to his dad, What will become of me? His dad says this. Thanks, dad. Jacob will be your boss, but it won't be like that forever. One day you will take Jacob down. One day you'll be out from underneath him. It's the one day that matters, right? In this moment, I do something that has no impact, but one day I'm gonna have to pay for what I did. One day, Jacob, we'll figure out. Oh, you don't screw me over and get away with it. That's a thing. Remember when I first pitched this series? I said, if you live in a cave, or actually I used um shelter. If you live on a uh if you're an ex-assassin and you're living on an island at the movie shelter, and anyone watch the movie shelter, is this reference? So you know he's like by himself, he's you know, wanted criminal, and so he lives by himself, doesn't talk to anyone. If that's currently your life and you're listening to my voice, you do not need to listen to this message because it doesn't matter. But if you're everybody else in the entire world who interacts with humans at any point, this matters because one day will happen. One day. One day, that neighbor who got his tree cut down, one day you'll get your neighbor back after 30 bylaw complaints. Yeah, one day. One day. The lack of relational skill you've put into your life. You'll wake up one day, maybe alone. A relationship was ended, and you're looking at it in the moment, going, what happened?

SPEAKER_02 16:38

This is one day. It was all this stuff in the past showing up one day. There's a proverb it says this.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

But your cruelty will restore you. I actually want to add, your cruelty will destroy you one day. Oh, you can get away with it. My coach, uh his name is Vince Fowler, his wife was at a store the other day. Brutal place, you could tell. The employees hating life. She goes to the the customer service counter. There's I think there's a price missing on something. It's like a hundred dollar item. Price missing. Hey, um, customer service person was a guy. How much is this? This guy has been kicked by it, the ownership, mistreated by ownership, abused by ownership. Guess who's one day just showed up right there? All those days that the ownership was like, oh no, no, it's fine. It's fine. I'll get away with this because I have power and you have a job. Here's what the guy does. He's like, just take it. Don't even pay for it. Oh, one day's a bitch, isn't it? The owner's like, no, no, no. Why is there why is there theft so high? Oh, it's not theft. Your employees hate you so much that they are giving away product. One day matters. Now, here's how it works. The series is called Detoxification for a reason because oftentimes it's not, you know, toxic masculinity or that kind of word. It's the sense of toxic things that we put into relationships that somehow in the future bite us in the butt. One day hit us. That's what I'm trying to get to. My coach kept saying, How do you define toxic? And I was like, it doesn't work that way. This isn't like old school church and sin where you say, like, you can't do that, you can't do that, you can't do that, you can't do that. Toxicity in relationships looks different. One person, you cut down the tree from their or the branch from their tree that grows over their yard. They're like, I will be calling bylaw on you for the rest of our lives together. The next person says, Oh, thanks. I was gonna have to call someone to go cut that down. That's great. I really appreciate it. Toxic isn't a one size fits all. Here's how toxic works. Stan Tatkin, a researcher who does a lot of work in couples, he calls it interpersonal psychobiology. Did I get that right? Interpersonal psychobiology. I think I got it right. Don't quote me. If it's wrong, send me an email, Vince at Friend Church. He conceptualized the brain this way. He says, your brain has this thing called a primitive in it. A primitive is a thing that's entire goal is to figure out when you're unsafe. It's all it does. It doesn't care about being right. It doesn't care about being accurate. It just cares about if you're in a situation where it feels that you might potentially possibly maybe be unsafe, that thing will fire. I was downstairs. Hope this is okay to say somebody from our team. I was just walking out of my office while they were walking in. Right? You know, the same thing. The doors open, I'm like right there, right in their face. And it's like, wow, that's their primitive going, danger, stranger, danger, something there's danger here. Question. What does that primitive measure against to trigger danger? Long-term memory. What do you think went into Esau's long-term memory after his brothers screwed him over of the CEO ship of the entire company? When we do toxic things to the people around us, it gets put into their long-term memory, and their primitives will spend their entire existence going red alert, red alert, red alert.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

That was Jeff.

SPEAKER_00 21:28

His primitives are going, no, no, no, you got screwed here once before. You cannot let this happen. Anyone have run into someone else's primitives before? Anyone realize your primitives are a little spicy? This is why it's so important how we repair things. If you do something to somebody that hurts them and you you're watching them, If you don't repair it right away, it gets put into long-term memory. And from then on, your primitives action on it. That person smells like a smell that I remember being a bad thing, danger. That person moved in a way that I felt danger one time, danger. You are danger. From then on, danger. If you let this stuff go into long-term memory in the people in your life, you will probably fight it for a very long time. It's job, the primitive job, is to keep you safe. It's sobering when you start to look at it this way, don't isn't it? How many times have I been unskillful? How many people are walking through my life with long-term memories and primitives that are aimed right at me? When I said it came in like a wrecking ball, it's a metaphor, but not too big of a one. And here's the important part for you how many people are walking through your life with long-term memories aimed at you?

SPEAKER_02 23:35

And how much of your life is long-term memories aimed at everybody else.

SPEAKER_00 23:45

Instead of feeling loved and cared for, your primitives are firing all the time. Instead of feeling connected, their primitives are firing all the time. If you're an owner and you treat your employees like crap, that's going into their long-term memory. You are not losing stuff because someone's stealing it. They are giving it away on you. Relationally. Do you find it hard to open your heart to people? Chances are it's primitives. Tied to long-term memories. You haven't worked through them yet. And they're firing all the time. What's the people in your life? You put them in there. Just like I did. I snuck in that one thing. I paid for it for 15 years. From an energy point of view, the engineer in me says, Vince, that was dumb. I said, Why do we do this? Why do we do things in the moment, you know, blow up, come down hard on someone, not talk or look at their point of view, all the things that we do. Why do we do it? I think it's because we think unconsciously that there's somebody else who's going to deal with this. And do you know who that person is? Can you throw up the picture, Esmond? Future me. That's a handsome devil right there. I think future me, that's future me. He's smarter than I am. He's better with money. He'll probably go to the gym more than I do. He'll solve all my relationship problems, all the stuff that I put into long-term memory, he will fix. What do you think future Vince thinks of current Vince? He does not like me very much. Because I keep sending crap to him. So take a minute and think of yourself up there. Put your future you up. If you want, go to FaceApp. You can put your face and put old. There's a Dapper old. Gives you a beard. I thought, eh. Put it up and put it on your phone. So every time you look at your phone, you're like, oh, there's future me. What am I sending to Future Me right now? How's Future Me feeling about present me now? Not very good. When you start to look at it, and this comes from uh, wasn't it Future Homer? Is that where it comes from? I'm looking at uh Andrew the drummer, who's like, oh, it's Future Homer. For me, when I think of Future Vince, something shifts. Instead of just being in this moment of, here's what I feel, oh, I just need to get this thing done. I'm just gonna get him to say yes this way. Sneak. When I look at future events, I'm like, hey buddy, you okay if I do this? He's like, no, dummy. We're gonna spend 15 years fighting with Jeff over this. We're gonna waste countless hours in meetings. We're both gonna be frustrated for 15 years. How about you not do that? Huh? Question, what does your future you think about current you right now? If future you could talk to you, what would that person say to you? Would it want you to stop saying yes to things that you really don't want to do? Would it have you take a breath with your kids before you're like, you little? Would it have you change how you interact with the people around you? Be like, hey, if we do this poorly, this will go into long-term memory and we will fight their primitives forever.

SPEAKER_02 28:02

Please, please handle this skillfully.

SPEAKER_00 28:10

Today, as you leave here, I want future you sitting with you on your shoulder, like you know, Angel Devil style. Let it whisper to you. Hey, we probably shouldn't do this because that's gonna hurt us. It's gonna hurt me. Hey, you see how that person's face just tweaked? You did something to hurt them. Maybe you should repair that so it doesn't go into long-term memory and their primitives fight you for the next 15 years. Hey, maybe we should take care of ourselves now so that we don't have to pay for that in the future. We don't know how much longer, let's say 20, 30 years, Jacob and Esau reunite. Can you imagine how that would have gone? Hey, brother, how's it going? Did you forget that I sold a company from you yet? Jacob sent half of his net worth to his brother as an apology.

SPEAKER_02 29:26

Half. Just to say I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 29:36

I don't know if the Bible stories ever happened. I'm never interested in that, but I'm telling you, that one's true. Future us will pay the price for the actions that we do now, for the toxic stuff we put into our life now. So as we start this next series, I want you to have future you sitting on your shoulder, looking at how your behavior, looking at the choices you're making, looking at what you're doing and saying, hey, hey, hey, don't send that one to me. Let's deal with it now. Because not putting something into long-term memory is infinitely easier. It takes infinitely less energy. Unfortunately, for the counselors in the world, you won't make as much money because we won't have to deal with that stuff. But our lives will be changed profoundly. Not to mention, we won't hurt the people around us. So I want to invite you. This series, we're gonna dig deep, go all sorts of different places. It's based on the work of John Gottman, but also Amar Levine, his new book, Secured, fantastic book. It's gonna be a ride. And it's one of those rides that I can feel future Vince saying, yes, pay attention here. Remember this. Don't take the easy road here, Clausen.

SPEAKER_02 31:21

Have the long haul in view.

SPEAKER_00 31:25

May we be a community who learns to put less toxicity into the people around us. Instead, live in relationships of love. Amen. As I said, hell yes. Much better. Folks, uh starting next week, we're going to talk about bidding. This one is key. Key. This is one that chances are, well, I am missing often. And it matters.