Swearing... Is it big? Is it clever?

WARNING... POTTY MOUTH ALERT!

Did your mother ever threaten to wash your mouth out with soap and water? 

Do you frequently drop the f-bomb, or even (on occasion and only when called for) the c-bomb?

Are you team Malcolm Tucker, or team Mary Whitehouse (Google ‘em if you’re under 40!)?

What are we effing talking about now? Well, it’s sw*&ring of course! Yes, this week, Morgan and Rhianydd are discussing cussing. Naughty words. Or as Netflix terms it, foul language. Is it big and clever, or is it the sign of a restricted vocabulary?

Who knows what we’ll decide, but you can guarantee that we will be turning the airwaves bluer than a very blue thing with this one, so if you’re easily offended or listening with children it’s probably best to Frank Bough and listen to something else.

In addition to these X-rated delights, we have a diminutive Wenglish Word of the Week, and a couple of truly historic cultural moments.

Follow Morgan James @morganjamesofficial

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:17

Hello, and welcome to Whose Coat Is That Jacket? Old Friends, New Conversations with me, Rihanna D.

SPEAKER_04 0:25

Brack, and him Morgan James.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Well, Morgan James, that was a very sassy name drop then.

SPEAKER_04 0:34

Yeah, I'm trying to bring a bit of sass to the episode. Yeah, a little bit of um zhuz.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

Oh, you zhuzd. Well, I think we may uh we may both be zujed by the end of it.

SPEAKER_04 0:48

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Um anyway, how are you? How are you, my darling?

SPEAKER_04 0:51

I'm good. I am good. We're currently going through a bit of a uh domestic crisis. In the we without gas. Oh, you're not cooking on gas. We're not cooking on gas. We're far from cooking on gas.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

Oh no, oh no.

SPEAKER_04 1:08

There was a gas leak discovered in the flat downstairs. You have a garden flat then where we've got like a two-story sort of well, you know, it's like a townhouse flat above it, and uh it supplies us on the first floor for our two floors. And um yeah, there's a there's a hole in the uh main gas pipe. Fortunately, that means it's down to the British Gas or the National Gas Supply Company to sort it out. So it's all been taken care of. There's no expense. Just as well, really, because um our garden's been dug up, the pavement's been taken up, the drive is gonna be dug up, uh so it's gonna be quite a thing. There's only we're a small, it's only three apartments, and there's two are like townhouses, first and second floors, and there's a garden one that we sit on and a central stairs. And the gas, the old the 1960s, the old gas pipes are in that central area. So they're well and truly good done. But of course, you don't think about it, you kind of go, Oh, that's alright. Michael said, Oh, Ans at the door, and there's a problem with the gas, I can smell gas. I was like, okay, get it fixed, and then you realise, okay, we'll be without gas for a minute, and then you realise, oh god, no, they're gonna have to dig, find it, re-route it. Uh that means no central heating, no hot water, no hob. And then you go, Oh, it is quite an inconvenience.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

That is an inconvenience. I tell you what, though, it's not as inconvenient as being blown sky high by a stray spark or match or something like that, is it? Because I mean, you know, that's that's how these things happen, isn't it? You hear it every now and then as a a house in the middle of a street is just blown sky high because it's a gas leak.

SPEAKER_04 2:52

And I went downstairs when we discovered it, and the gas emergency services were there. And my God. And they said, Oh, it's not, it's fine. They said it's not a dangerous one. We can we obviously it needs to be fixed and corrected, but we've seen worse.

SPEAKER_03 3:06

And the smell of gas.

SPEAKER_04 3:09

Oh, really? Yeah, it is terrifying, isn't it? When you think about it. So, of course, you're done. Well, we are totally compliant and go, look, whatever you've got to do, you do, absolutely. And they've been brilliant. You know, they bring you heaters and they bring you little um baby bellings to boil you stuff on. Boil a little leg. Boil a leg in the board. I said, Well, what can you make my legs? So that's how I am. I'm cold, uh, but I'm I'm good. And and as you say, I'm safe. How are you?

SPEAKER_01 3:39

I um I don't know how I am. I'm barely um I barely know I'm alive at the moment in functioning. I'm so tired. Are you? But you don't want to know about that, do you? Any well No, not really.

SPEAKER_04 3:52

I don't want to sound like a right bastard. I'm really happy to listen to you if you want to tell me.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

I don't think I don't think the listener would like to hear about it, about my tiredness. So we'll we'll pass on. Beyond that, I'll plow through and we'll get on with this week's topic, shall we?

SPEAKER_03 4:08

Do it.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

So my question to you, Morgan, is is it big and is it clever? Or is it the sign of a tiny mind and low intelligence? What am I talking about?

SPEAKER_04 4:18

I could go filthy, because I'm prone to go filthy, but I think I got a feeling you're talking about cussing. Profanity.

SPEAKER_01 4:27

Profanities. I am indeed talking profanities. And I know we we quite often drop the odd F-bomb and various other profanities on this pod, but this week I do feel as though we need to issue, or I need to issue, a warning to our listener that if you don't like extreme swearing, you might want to leave this episode and try another one. We will be going there, if you know what I mean. So I'm just giving everyone the heads up straight away that this is gonna be no holds back, the filthiest ones you can think of. They're all coming out and they're loud and proud. So there you are. You've had your warning. Bye, nice to see you. See you in another episode. If you stayed with us, well done you! Yeah, so yes, I love a good swear, me. I absolutely love a good swear. So, cards on the table. I'm not gonna be arguing that swearing is, you know, a bad thing to do. I'm just interested in it as a concept. Why are some words seen as unacceptable and others are seen as though okay, you know? And and the changing fashions for it. So the thing that sparked this for me was an article I read on the way in which different nationalities, different, specifically European nationalities, but different countries have different kinds of swear words that they see swearing in a different way. So, for example, in Italy, um, the really bad unacceptable swear words are more kind of blasphemy type swear words, you know, old-fashioned like taking God's name in vain type swear words, whatever. Now we tend to have two different kinds of swear words, don't we? We have the the ones which are about um excreta, shall we say, and bodily functions, yeah, and the ones which are about uh are sexual in nature, either their sexual parts of the body or their sexual acts, essentially. So you know, there are lots of others, of course, but those are the kinds of the ones in the English language that we tend to have. But yeah, apparently in Italy they tend to be more blasphemy-based. Um, so there's one that kind of would um translate into English. I I don't know what the actual word is, but apparently it would translate um into English as something like fucking God, which you can imagine for a you know a strict Sunday Catholic country would be quite unacceptable, really.

SPEAKER_02 7:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

So yeah, so the things like that that made me think, oh yeah, so why why do we see some things as unacceptable and other things as absolutely fine? So I looked at a UGov poll, okay? So this was a UGov poll, which was done in April, April 2025. They asked various things. So out of that I picked up several things which I thought was really interesting. Okay. 57% of Britons said that they swear every day. Does that surprise you?

SPEAKER_04 7:50

No, no, not at all.

SPEAKER_01 7:52

Would you think so? I I would have thought it'd be much more.

SPEAKER_04 7:55

Oh, yeah, absolutely. I just thought, are my surprise it's as much as 57? No. Yeah, I would have thought it'd be much. When you when you think 43% don't swear every day, yeah, that surprises me.

SPEAKER_01 8:06

Yeah, and we're talking about adults, obviously they asked 18 plus.

SPEAKER_04 8:10

Okay. Um so 18 hours plus. It surprises me that it's not more, but it doesn't surprise me that it's a large number, anyways.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

I would have thought it would have been much, much more. And eight percent of people say they never swear. 8%.

unknown 8:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

Which I find quite surprising. That's quite a lot. Eight out of a hundred people would say they never ever swear. These days, you know, where most swear words are like tell a penny, aren't they? Yeah. Um, do you think men or women are more likely to swear?

SPEAKER_04 8:40

I feel like, oh, in order to get the question right, I should say women. I think women are great swearers. But then I I I know so many men of a certain demographic where it's literally every other word. So women.

SPEAKER_01 8:54

No, it's men. It is men. As you would have expected. Yeah, men are more likely to swear than women, but not by much, really. And the under 50s are more likely to swear than older generations.

unknown 9:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

Which again, I I guess you might expect. Yeah. So then it also looked at the home nations. Right. Right. So out of uh, well, only the only three, not Northern Ireland, they didn't encounter Northern Ireland. So out of England, Scotland, and Wales, which country has the least negative they would swear in?

SPEAKER_04 9:28

Oh, it's gonna be either Wales or Scotland. Um it's gotta be. It's gotta be either Wales or Scotland. And I think that would be a kind of photo finish to me that I can't imagine there's much in it. Because I I want to say Wales, having coming from Wales, but then again, having been Scotland a lot, you know, it's um there's a lot of swearing up there.

SPEAKER_01 9:50

There is a lot of swearing, isn't there? Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, it it's it's it's funny because the way they do it, it's um they're kind of questions where do you have a positive view of swearing, neutral view of swearing, or a negative view of swearing? Okay. So the most people in Scotland Scotland was the area where there was the most positive view of swearing. So um something like 22% of Scots said that they had actually a positive, they like swearing. They think it's a good thing. Yeah, there were fewer positive in Wales who said out of England, so out of England, Scotland was at the most positive view, England had the next most positive view, and Wales had the fewest people who said they had actually a positive view of swearing, but also Wales had the fewest number of people who had an outright negative view.

SPEAKER_04 10:45

Right, okay.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

Right? So most people in Wales are saying, I don't mind either way, really.

SPEAKER_04 10:52

Oh look, I know it's not right, but I do it. Whereas in Scotland it's embraced actually, I love a swear.

SPEAKER_01 10:57

Yeah, got it. Yeah, exactly. But in Eng England was the country with the most people who said they had a negative view of so 35% of English people in this survey said they had a negative view of swearing, which I thought was quite interesting.

SPEAKER_02 11:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:11

I thought it was very interesting. So are you ready for the list?

SPEAKER_04 11:18

Yeah, I'm ready for the list.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

So how were so the this is a list of okay? Um, the most to the least offensive words. I haven't counted them, but they must be bloody loads. So I'm going to do a run through. Okay. Now, do you want to make any any predictions, first of all?

SPEAKER_04 11:42

Least to the most.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Uh most to the least. So I'm going to start with the biggie.

SPEAKER_04 11:48

Well, I think I I know what the biggie is.

SPEAKER_01 11:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:52

Yeah, I think I know what the biggie is. Which interestingly, and I learned this myself, if it's in a film, it has to be an 18.

unknown 12:00

Just the just the one.

SPEAKER_04 12:02

Yeah, this is what I was told because I was in a a British indie horror. My character said the C-word quite a lot. And it was a violent film, and I thought that would make it an 18. No, it was the C-word made it the 18, which I think says something about our society that actually me shooting guys right between the fucking eyes is fine, but if I call him a comp while I'm doing it.

SPEAKER_01 12:26

That's that's really not on. That's right, like that is.

SPEAKER_04 12:30

And there we are. For those who don't like swearing and want to switch off, I would say fuck off.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

They've already been warned, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_04 12:35

I would say, yeah, fuck off right now.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

Yeah, if you if you're in two minds, you really want to turn off right now. Because I'm gonna do the charts, okay?

SPEAKER_04 12:44

So running down.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

Yeah, so my inner Alan Freeman is coming out. Okay, so I'm gonna try and do this all in one go. There's a lot of words. Can't motherfucker fatherfuck a bitch, fuck, wanker, bastard, pussy, prick, twat, asshole, dickhead, son of a bitch, cock, toss a bell end, knob, dick, fanny shit, douchebag, bullshit, idiot, bollocks, shite, horseshit, fing, piss tit ass, sneg prat, jerk bagat, ass get, pin hole, balls, feck, crap, twit, man, bloody bird, help who damn heck.

SPEAKER_04 13:15

Well, first of all, marvelous delivery.

SPEAKER_00 13:19

I thank you, I thank you.

SPEAKER_04 13:21

Heck is not a swear word.

SPEAKER_00 13:23

So apparently, five people said they found heck fairly offensive.

SPEAKER_01 13:30

So the options were very offensive, fairly offensive. Don't know, not very offensive, not offensive at all. Okay and five people found heck fairly offensive. And also, I mean Pratt. Pratt is quite high. Two people found Pratt highly offensive. Pratt! Pratt! PR18. Git. Nine people found git highly offensive.

SPEAKER_04 14:02

I hate the word git. Yeah, when somebody says, Oh, you get, or they're right, get. I kind of go, ooh, such a shit word. It doesn't offend me, I just think it's a crap swear word.

SPEAKER_01 14:13

Well, maybe. Fing? Right? So effing is what you say when you want to keep it clean.

SPEAKER_04 14:19

Yeah, effing is not swearing.

SPEAKER_01 14:21

Yeah, effing. Four people found that highly offensive, and three thirteen found it moderately offensive.

SPEAKER_04 14:29

But the alternative's far more offensive.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

Idiot comes above bollocks. More people were offended by idiot than were offended by bollocks.

SPEAKER_04 14:40

Is that would be how it's used though, surely? I don't know. If if I was to say to your god, I was such an idiot, I I can't imagine if you were one of those people you'd sit there going, oh gosh.

SPEAKER_02 14:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:52

Whereas if you were like, you're such an idiot, that the do you know what I mean? The the attack is more offensive than the word, surely.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

Yeah. Did you also notice that fuck comes below motherfucker, fatherfucker, and bitch?

SPEAKER_04 15:09

I didn't notice that.

SPEAKER_01 15:10

Yeah, so fuck is number five on the list.

SPEAKER_04 15:13

I would like to ask who says fatherfucker.

unknown 15:17

I've never heard of that.

SPEAKER_04 15:18

I've never heard of that in my life.

SPEAKER_01 15:21

I've got one to add to my collection.

SPEAKER_04 15:23

And that comes in at number three. It says new inn at number three.

SPEAKER_01 15:26

New in at number three this week, yeah. New entry. Father. Never heard of that. Yeah. And bastard. Bastard is quite high as well. I always think bastard is a particularly inoffensive word. Bastard is much higher than twat and arsehole.

SPEAKER_04 15:42

Yeah, I don't think twat's offensive, I've got to be honest. Or arsehole. I don't find. But then remember, you and I swear.

unknown 15:51

Yes, this is true.

SPEAKER_04 15:53

This isn't not this isn't new territory to you and I.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

No. No, indeed. But uh the interestingly as well, I mean I th I find it all interesting. Things like somebody finding bur and bun. One person was offended by Bun.

unknown 16:08

Oh god.

SPEAKER_01 16:09

Um so made-up swear words. There are two made-up swear words in there. Did you did you pick up on them?

SPEAKER_04 16:16

I didn't. I thought father father fucker was made up for a start, but obviously it isn't.

SPEAKER_01 16:23

Well, I don't know. Yeah, so smeg is in there.

SPEAKER_04 16:26

Oh, smeg, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

Which is from um Red Dwarf.

SPEAKER_04 16:30

I know what that would mean though.

SPEAKER_01 16:31

I don't think it does mean what you think it means. I think that was a word we used in the 80s.

SPEAKER_04 16:36

Okay, so for anybody listening, it would be some kind of secretion, we can call it. Good word, I was gonna say distribution, but yeah, secretion in an area that only men have.

SPEAKER_01 16:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:51

And men who haven't had surgery down there.

SPEAKER_01 16:54

Yeah. So anyway, but I think, I mean, according to this, it says that Smeg is uh invented by Red Wharf.

SPEAKER_02 17:02

Right.

SPEAKER_01 17:02

And the other one was Pimhole. And that was invented by Fry and Laurie. That was on an episode of Fry and Laurie where they were doing made-up swear words.

SPEAKER_04 17:16

Oh my god, and it caught!

SPEAKER_01 17:18

And four people said they found that very offensive. Oh for fuck's sakes.

SPEAKER_00 17:25

Oh, I absolutely love it.

SPEAKER_04 17:29

I am aware of the irony that I'm holding on to my honest reaction, which just came out then under a breath, which was, oh for fuck's sakes.

SPEAKER_01 17:37

Oh yeah, thanks.

SPEAKER_04 17:39

So my apologies if you find it offensive, then you have every right to find it offensive.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

Yeah, yeah, exactly. But there's also a lot of research currently, you know, because when you get told off for swearing when you're a child or in school, or you know, even somebody who's a little bit pro-faced and doesn't like swearing, and they looked at me, I mean, like my my I wouldn't swear in front of my aunt Elaine. I'm not saying she's pro-faced because she's not, but it I just wouldn't find it appropriate. And I think she would be disappointed in me. So there's certain people you know that you wouldn't kind of or wouldn't appreciate swearing. Do they dislike it because I mean the old argument was, wasn't it? It's like a sign of uh lack of imagination. You can't think of another word to use, so you use a swear word. So it's like low intelligence, lack of imagination, or coarseness, it's a sign of coarseness, all these like negative connotations. But there are, or there is rather, there is research that suggests that actually swearing can provide, does perform a function because it allows for people to express extreme emotion. And actually, if uh they've done experiments, um, there was one with um a bucket of ice. I don't know whether you heard or saw that, and I think Stephen Fry again was involved in this, I may be wrong. Um, but there was an experiment that these psychologists did where they had people to stick their hand in a bucket of ice, right? And you know, you could do that for so long, and then it gets really, really painful. It gets really painful. So they wanted to see how long people could could stand it with their hand in a bucket of ice saying nothing or just saying normal words, and then how long they could stand it if they were allowed to swear, and they could stand the pain of the ice much longer if they were swearing, it allowed them to put up with it. If they would just go shit, you know, that would allow them to put up with it. So it does, it does seem to perform some kind of physical function or psychological function, whatever you want to call it. You know, it does have a purpose, yeah. It's not just us having uh fun with words which have become profane because of things like you know the church's disapproval, or I mean, a lot of our sexual swear words were not regarded as sexual, as swear words, as profanities before, guess what, the bloody Victorian period. Yeah, you know, so if you read medieval or early modern medical texts, where anatomical texts they will talk about cock and balls and and cunt and that kind of thing. The woman's cunt or the woman's cunny, it might be something like a cunny, a kind of a um associated word, not an actual, not not that actual word. But so they were there was no shame attached to those. Chaucer uses the word fuck. It was just an expressive form of English, and there was no actual shame attached to it until later on for many of these things, when you know it was regarded that we don't talk about that kind of thing. We're too genteel, you know, societies become too genteel and polite. Um, and it's not acceptable to talk about it. So, you know, all the s most of the swear words are the unacceptable taboo words if you go back in history and more to do with get blasphemy, such as the Italians will still think is, or some Italians I presume will still think is terrible. What's your view on swearing?

SPEAKER_04 21:20

I mean, that's fascinating what you've just said, putting it in some time some kind of historical context. I love swearing. I love swearing in certain situations. So I love swearing comically. I love swearing as an embellishment in a story, you know. Oh my god, it's fucking furious. That kind of thing. I think you're right. I think that sometimes no other word will do. Whether you've done something wrong or you kind of oh fuck, I forgot to pay that. You know, it's just it's a wonderful expression of I think it gets rid of a lot of rage very quickly. In a minute. I think that's healthy. And I do find it very funny. I do fall into that camp that when people are over overusing swear words as somebody who loves to swear and has no moral judgment, I do go come up with something else, actually. Come up with something a bit more. I was watching a documentary last night, we were watching something on Netflix called The Marines, which I was quite fa I'm quite fascinated by, and it's about the American Marines. And you know, it's a world I don't understand, or and they are real kind of to use their words, particularly the gunners, the the the the machine gunners. This is their word. They describe themselves as grunt. So they've got massive necks, they're f really stacked, tattooed, they come from butt fuck nowhere, and they just want to kill. And that's their words, that's not me. Watch the anybody listening who just watched the show, that's their definition. And you know, they're effing and blinding every sentence, and I go, Oh, come on, think of something else now, think of something else. So there is a part of me, so perhaps because I have a a a grasp of vocabulary that and that might be patronizing, but I think I'm using it as a adjectively, I'm using it as a kind of uh an embellisher. I always used to use it as a weapon with Michael. If we were having a row and he swore, I would always kind of say, can't I come up with something better? Because I will never swear in a row.

SPEAKER_03 23:19

Oh really?

SPEAKER_04 23:20

No, I'll never swear in a row. I'll really try and be. I mean, I will, you know, oh for fuck's sakes, don't be stupid. I'll do that kind of thing. But I will never call somebody something. I would never use it as a weapon ever.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

Is that because you feel like you lost the argument once you start?

SPEAKER_04 23:36

I think so, yeah. I do. Wearing at like you know, calling someone a motherfucker or Yeah, because and also, you know, it's a with your partner, it's different, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 23:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:45

I think there are there are certain people you could you know, I could swear with my partner, but nobody else really. Like I'd never call you a swear word.

SPEAKER_01 23:52

I'd never I'd never What a load of bollocks.

SPEAKER_04 23:56

Well, I'd ne not aggressively.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

Well, I'd hope you wouldn't call me anything aggressive.

SPEAKER_04 24:01

Exactly, exactly. So when it when it steps over into aggression, and that might be from history of we've talked about this recently, which I and I was thinking about this actually, touching on it. I had a recent incident recently which you know where somebody did use uh swear word really aggressively at me in a written form. And it really triggered stuff in me, but that's my history as somebody who was bullied a lot as a child, and a lot of language was used at me like a weapon. And you've got that sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me. Actually, they do hurt you, so I think that's why subconsciously I've never used it as a as a as a weapon. I'd never go, you know, you are up in cut. I would never do that, but I would probably if we were sitting around the table and I'd work with somebody I didn't like, I'd probably go, oh Christ, it's such a cunt. And we'd laugh about it, but I would never do uh use it as a weapon to somebody aggressively or attacking. I think that's just behind their back. Just behind their back, I think it's perfectly fine. I think that uh and again I think people think we're like, you know, I uh for me there's a moral line there. If it's moving into where you are, there is conflict or some kind of argument, choose better language.

SPEAKER_01 25:09

I guess when you are trying to win an argument with somebody, you want to communicate as eloquently as you can.

SPEAKER_04 25:16

Yeah, I think so. And that that's probably hypocritical. I'm probably um, you know, using double standards there to say I swear a lot and I do enjoy it and I think it does help, and then go, ah, but there are certain conditions where it doesn't.

SPEAKER_01 25:31

But I no, I don't think that's hypocritical. I think that's sensible. It's it's it's your choice of language, isn't it? If you're saying that um swear words for you are part of your everyday vocabulary, unlike any other kinds of words, they form perform functions, don't they? So you choose when and where you're gonna use them, and you use the best word for the best effect and whatever you're trying to get across. So, you know, if if you want to yes, if you want to make someone laugh and you know it's somebody like me who does love a good swear, and I can't think of anyone more amusing than Malcolm Tucker in the thick of it, you know, the sort of the sweariest man on earth. Um, so you know I'm gonna find that funny, but if you were wanting to tell your I don't know, your great aunt a joke or something and make them laugh, you probably wouldn't use him be using those words. And you might it would be a completely different context. So, Brian, so I don't think it's hypocritical of you to say that you have a swear word, you can't see anything wrong with them. I think they're great, they've got a function, but then I wouldn't use one in an argument because that's not the function you want to use to make.

SPEAKER_04 26:38

And I I wouldn't use it aggressively, and I think that's a really good uh example you use with uh The Thick of It and Veep, Amanda Yonucci. He uses swear words beautifully. Oh my god. And they come out of the most they come out of the most surprising mouth. It's marvellous, and you kind of go, and they're always used, I think, in the right context. Yeah. When somebody is gossiping with somebody just trying to get off their chairs to oh oh Christian so and so's fucking ear. Do you know what I mean? They use in that context, they're never used because they can't find he he can always write a better word to put somebody down.

SPEAKER_01 27:11

Yeah, yeah. One of my favourite Malcolm Checker lines. And and this is actually where you could say, Oh look, find another word, you know, but so funny. He's in his office, somebody knocked at the door, and he said, Come the fuck in or fuckle cackle.

SPEAKER_04 27:28

I think I may be misquoting the line, and uh again, C bomb alert, but I think there's a similar one in Veep where Julia Louis Dreyfus is playing the vice president, and she's so beautiful and you know, so kind of seen as so conservative and almost tightly wound and something's gone wrong. And he may not use the word, but I remember the scene and she's going, oh Christ, she said, you know, somewhere there's a woman who looks like me lying on a beach having a cuntied note right now. And it's just so it's just perfect. It sums up how she feels about her life. Do you know what I mean? It's so perfect use of it. Um but um on a beach. That's clever.

unknown 28:10

I don't think that's a piece of it.

SPEAKER_04 28:11

That's clever. To me, that's a clever use, and I may have misused that, and it may be just that's the imagery, but using swearing cleverly can be really, really powerful.

SPEAKER_01 28:22

Really powerful, absolutely and again, I suppose that comes from using it sparsely. You know, if some I remember once my mother, who she she did swear, she'd always be saying, not always, but she would say shit and piss and and those kinds of bloody bloody was popular, wasn't it? Bloody was absolutely I love the word bloody. I love it. Bloody hell. Bloody hell. Um, so she'd used those kind of what I would consider to be mid-tier swear words, you know, mid-tier swear words. And I never heard her say the F-bomb, and I don't think she would have known hunt. I don't know whether she would have known what that was. She was, you know, kind of quite sheltered after bringing my mother, I think. Um but anyway, she was we were talking about somebody. This was not that many years before she died, and you know, as people get older, they get a little bit more, they lose their inhibitions a little bit, and they have more of a demo make care like uh attitude, maybe in some cases. And um so we were talking about somebody talking about a family member, in fact. My brother was there as well, and we were talking about this person, and she said, Oh, she can fuck off.

SPEAKER_04 29:49

That's the per to me, that's the perfect use of it. Because they're not in the room, they're not gonna hear me, they're not gonna be upset by it. It j it it gives you the temperature of where Marion's at with that person. Perfect. Perfect. Um, I love that. My aunt once now I think my aunt did swear. My aunt was an opera singer um uh at the Royal Opera House, and I yeah, no, I know that yeah, I come from the theatre. Of course she fucking sweared. And I heard her swear, but she didn't always swear in company, but I would hear her under a breath, and I think she probably had a mouth like a like a trucker. But she obviously it was old traditional swear words, like your mother, it would have been bloody or sod or but probably fuck, do you know what I mean? But she certainly would have been wouldn't have been in the modern era. But she once used a swear word without knowing what it was, which was hysterical.

SPEAKER_03 30:46

Oh god, what is she saying?

SPEAKER_04 30:47

So we were leaving the cinema. Oh god, it was years ago. I think we went to Patley Cinema to see a film. I used to uh meet with her every week, we'd either have dinner or go at the cinema for about twenty-five years, and we'd taken a film one uh every couple of weeks, and we were leaving the cinema, and you were walking down the you know, it was one of those cinemas where you came up through the middle and you had seats behind you and seats in front of you, yeah?

SPEAKER_00 31:12

Oh right, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:13

So we were at the back and we were coming down to exit, and this man obviously was running up for something, and Norma was elderly, he bumped into her, he smacked her in the face, and he was so apologetic, you know, oh my god, what and he you know, there was no drama, but she was like a quite melodramatic, she an opera singer, you know, it's a big deal, and also she's elderly. Um I I got her outside and I said, You alright? And everything was okay, and he was sorry and everything. And I said, What happened? She said, I don't know. I don't know. I was walking down the stairs, you saw me. I was walking down the stairs, and the next minute he wanked me in the face. And I remember going, I don't know if he did that, but but of course she had no idea what I was on about. So he wanked her in the face. So she this now she probably got whacked wrong, but I kind of went. Yeah. It was on I thought, shall I say, do you know what wanked is? And then I went, No, I can't do that on my aunt. I can't do that on my aunt. No, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 32:11

He wanked me in the face.

SPEAKER_04 32:14

Oh, she was holding on to her jaw. And I remember going, yeah, he didn't. He really didn't.

SPEAKER_01 32:20

Oh no.

SPEAKER_04 32:21

And if he did, we've got a real problem.

SPEAKER_01 32:23

Yeah, then we need to call the police, probably.

SPEAKER_04 32:25

Yeah, he shouldn't leave this cinema.

SPEAKER_01 32:28

Yeah, then there is a real issue.

SPEAKER_04 32:29

If he's wanking old ladies in the face, we've got a problem. No, not how to go. But I will swear, I'll swear in front of my parents. I don't think my brothers would like.

SPEAKER_01 32:39

How far would you go? So F bomb? Yes, I've heard you say fat in front of you.

SPEAKER_04 32:44

I would, yeah. I'm not I'm not oh god, I feel like I should say I'm not proud of that now. And my parents don't swear. Uh like that. They they say bloody and bugger. Bloody bugger, of course they swear, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:57

Um, interesting. Fatherfucker, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:01

Um would you say motherfucker in front of them?

SPEAKER_04 33:04

No, Christ no. And I certainly wouldn't say the C word in front of them. Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_01 33:08

No.

SPEAKER_04 33:08

I wouldn't say many words in that. Fuck, I think I think fuck's quite okay. And I wouldn't be like F, and then I meant that and they fucking did this, and then we fucking did that. It wouldn't be like every other word. Oh, I've had a fucking day. But I would I would occasionally go, oh, for fuck's sakes, don't listen to them, ma'am. For Christ's sakes, don't listen to them. She'll correct me if I blaspheme, which is really interesting.

SPEAKER_01 33:30

Where's any ghostie?

SPEAKER_04 33:31

She's not particularly religious. James. If I'm like, if I'd be like, oh, Christ's sake, will you stop taking the Lord's name in vain?

SPEAKER_01 33:41

That's probably upbringing, isn't it? Yeah. And their generation. Was she a chapel goer?

SPEAKER_04 33:47

Yeah, she was a chapel goer. Uh, but my my father will sometimes want to say it with me if he gets really frustrated. But he won't say the F. So he's not really swearing.

SPEAKER_03 33:59

Ooh, I get so annoyed with them.

SPEAKER_04 34:02

I'd be like, oh bless you. So they won't say it. But I'm sure they do to each other. I'm sure they tell each other to F off all the time in Amlao. I hope they do.

SPEAKER_01 34:12

Yeah, yeah. I was just thinking now, because I mean, uh said it once that my father didn't swear very much. He would say bloody bugger, bastard every now and then, that kind of thing, you know, the sort of mid medium level ones. But what my son James, he's got a bit of a sweary mouth on him. And I do when I when it comes from him, I do kind of wince every now and then, you know, and if he does say fucking this, fucking that, um, and he's dropped a bloody C bomb several times in front of me. And oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'll just go, oh, change down, you know, it does make me wince because it's coming from him, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 34:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:57

And I think I don't know whether I'm thinking, oh, he should have a bit more respect in front of his mother.

SPEAKER_04 35:01

Yeah, and I've never always this is only in the last few years that I have s used, say the F word occasionally in front of them, and almost it's like a bonding thing. Look how close we are.

SPEAKER_01 35:13

Yes, we don't we're on we're on a level now, it's no longer parent-child relationship, it's more, you know, equal, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 35:21

I never ever did it as a young child.

SPEAKER_01 35:24

I would have had my ass kicked from here to bloody over there. Yeah. I really would have. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 35:31

So if we go to the top of the list then.

SPEAKER_01 35:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:36

I think it's worth talking about that word, number one. And we always knew it was gonna be number one.

SPEAKER_01 35:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:42

How do you feel about that word?

SPEAKER_01 35:45

I used to very much dislike it.

unknown 35:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:48

I used I used to find it, I did used to find it highly, highly offensive. I saw it as misogynistic, I think.

SPEAKER_02 35:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:58

Um, because it was using the female anatomy as a swear word. So I did see it as highly misogynistic. Um and I didn't like it at all. I didn't like hearing it. I didn't ever say it. But I don't know when and why that started to change as I got older. I think probably the first time I ever heard it, I might have been in university or something. Not sure. And I don't think it was a word that we used a lot when we were in form.

SPEAKER_02 36:30

No, no.

SPEAKER_01 36:31

Wasn't, was it?

SPEAKER_02 36:32

No.

SPEAKER_01 36:32

Wasn't part of our vocabulary, and I don't think we f inject very much either. Perhaps we did.

SPEAKER_04 36:38

I think we probably did. I I think it's as you say, it's always been around. Chaucer used fuck, but I think it's become very, very mainstream with again. That's probably with going back to my story about uh films with licensing as well, swearing in film has just become more there was that period where you know um what's that fantastic film with Ben Kingsley and Ray Winston? Charles, he wasn't in that. You're thinking of Gandhi. Um Ben Kingsley and Ray Winston, where he's um sexy beast. Sexy beast, where literally every other word is F or C. And also the Cook, the Thief, His Wife and Her Lover. Michael Gamblon doesn't stop swearing. So it's become very acceptable, hasn't it?

SPEAKER_01 37:24

Yeah. And it has, oh definitely. It's become much more mainstream. Um, I mean, you would never hear it on the radio.

SPEAKER_04 37:31

No, you don't hear it on the radio.

SPEAKER_01 37:34

Well, you don't hear it on I don't know what radio stations you listen to, but I listen to um because I'm very cultured, I listen to radio four. And every now and then, depending on what it is, there will be uh an F and a G.

SPEAKER_04 37:47

On Radio 4.

SPEAKER_01 37:48

Yeah. If they do a drama and it calls for it, maybe late at night.

SPEAKER_04 37:52

Yeah, presenters run F and F though.

SPEAKER_01 37:54

Oh god, no, no, no, no, no, no, they won't. They just say talk. They won't, they won't, they won't swear at all. I guess that's you know, BBC standards and all that folks, isn't it? Um, but uh yeah, to go back to the to the good old hunt. Um I don't know at what point maybe with it started to change. And I think it's as as you say, I think it might have been just exposure, if you like. That I was exposed to it more, and then I think I you know, I I try to be as logical as I can with with you know my all of my decisions generally, but even things by thinking about words, and ultimately they're just words. They are words. Why are some words bad and some words okay? I mean, okay, fair enough. Anything racial.

unknown 38:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:49

So there are some words I would not say, and when I hear them being said, always a bit of a wince, like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 38:57

Yeah, no, I agree. Yeah, and I even reclaiming it, I uh people who are reclaiming it, I kind of go, it's such an ugly word. Uh, regardless of its foul, foul history.

SPEAKER_01 39:10

I think some words should be it should be dropped from a but that's up to people in fact that use the word used against them, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 39:19

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 39:20

Um what do you think? What about the word what about things like um slurs for gay people then? Like queer and fairy and all those kinds of things. How do you feel about those?

SPEAKER_04 39:32

I have a huge problem with queer. I really do.

SPEAKER_01 39:35

Because that's one of the ones that's been reclaimed, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 39:38

Hugely, and I have a lot of friends, uh, you know, male, female, and not identifying as either that are within the sort of LGBTQIA um group, and they will call themselves. I know I did, I forget. I'm I'm allowed. Um and they will they will, you know, as a queer woman, as a queer man, as a queer person, as a queer and I've often said uh it doesn't trigger me, but I don't like using it to describe myself because it was it was used so regularly against me and so m weaponized against me as a as a child and as a teenager. I don't want to reclaim it. I don't want to I don't feel better smiling and calling myself a queer. I would just rather get rid of the word. Uh fairy I think fairy is slightly pathetic. Faggot, I think is awful. I don't know anybody who would use that, but you're right there, it has been reclaimed.

SPEAKER_01 40:37

Well Americans, isn't it? It's a lot of an American term.

SPEAKER_04 40:40

Um but yeah, I have a real issue with queer. And I get it, you know, as queer people, and I kind of go, I don't see myself as queer, I see myself as utterly normal.

SPEAKER_01 40:48

Right, because I guess the word queer means unusual, odd, off in some way, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_04 40:53

And it's probably my issue that I'm working through that yeah, I'm broke and there's something wrong with me. I don't think that anymore, but that's the the the inference, is that to me. So I'm trying to be a bit more compassionate to the word because where it sits now is a lot is in a um a much more positive place. Um but again I feel that I have every right to say to fellow gay, lesbian, etc. etc. people no, I'm not comfortable with it. I think there is this perception that no, we should reclaim it. You've got to be comfortable with it. No, I'm not comfortable with it. I'm not comfortable. It exists, and I will, of course, I will tolerate it, but I'm not comfortable with it. No, I don't like it.

SPEAKER_01 41:34

Yeah, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_04 41:36

And I it's interesting what you said about the C-word, because I've got a few uh quite a few female friends who don't like it because of exactly that misogynist overtones. And I I see it. If you think of the swear words we use for male genitalia, cock and dick, yeah, they you know, in the scheme of swearing, they're slightly pathetic, aren't they? You cock or you dick.

SPEAKER_01 41:56

But that's but that is just a cultural artifact. That that is just why we have decided that those words are less offensive than cunt or And that's why women I think find it so insulting.

SPEAKER_00 42:12

But what about fanny?

SPEAKER_04 42:14

It's not a sway word though, is it? It uh I mean you've got connotations like fanny, and but I would never call somebody a fanny or a minge.

SPEAKER_01 42:24

Twat. But that's just a disgusting word. Twat.

SPEAKER_04 42:29

It's one of those words that Twat is based on it, yeah. Um and I don't usually use that word a lot, I've got to be honest. The thing about the thing about um why am I shy about saying the C word on this podcast?

SPEAKER_01 42:41

Yeah, because it's a bad swear, and when you have everybody now knows it, it should should have packed off on a butt shouldn't make a silly cunt.

SPEAKER_04 42:48

Um there's a great piece of footage of Olivia Coleman being asked at a at a on a red carpet event, you know, what is your swear favourite swear word? And so it's gotta be cunt. And um she says it so beautifully as well. Um the thing about it for me is I don't think if I and again I would never use it as a weapon, I'd never say to somebody, you are a cunt. I'd usually use it in in humour. Um but I would never in my mind I'm not thinking of the reference to feminine female genitalia. To me, it's just that hard T is so so fulfilling, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 43:25

Yeah, it's it's it's the hard consonance of it.

SPEAKER_04 43:28

Well it's the CK of the fuck. Fuck.

SPEAKER_01 43:31

You know, I know Dick's got it, but it's Annie is a bit more gentle, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 43:36

And I know Dick has got it and Cock has got it, but they haven't got the fff behind it and the Yeah, it's quite an aggressive sounding word.

SPEAKER_01 43:44

Maybe that's something to do with it.

SPEAKER_04 43:45

So it it just it releases all the tension.

SPEAKER_01 43:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:50

Uh but I can totally understand it, just like I made my little example of what queer does for me. I can totally understand that it's not just offensive as a swear word, but it's offensive because. Because if it's Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:01

Oh I I can understand women in particular finding it very difficult and very offensive. I can understand that definitely. And I I don't think I use it in front of anyone that I don't know really well. And that I'm um so if if I do use it, I make sure it's with people that I I know will not be offended. Because I know it can cause offense because, and again, I say I used to find it offensive myself. There is one more, much more offensive word.

SPEAKER_03 44:29

What's that?

SPEAKER_01 44:30

Which I I think you're familiar with. Um and it was in um I need to I want to just finish off this little bit of the uh of the pod here. So are you familiar with South Park cartoon?

SPEAKER_04 44:47

Yeah, I loved how you said it.

SPEAKER_01 44:50

Is one familiar with it, darling?

SPEAKER_04 44:52

No, I loved how you said because I always think of it as coming called South Park, and you were like that. South Park? You went up on the park.

SPEAKER_00 44:58

South Park? When I sometimes asked you a question.

SPEAKER_04 45:01

Yeah, yeah, I'm yeah. I am. I've I don't think I've ever watched it. Sorry anybody who's offended by that. I don't think I've ever watched it. But I have a feeling it's very sweary, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:13

Yeah, it's very kind of you know, childish, sweary kind of thing. Banal adolescence, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So um they've had a couple of films, and there was one film called South Park, Bigger, Longer, and Uncut. And um one of the main characters called Cartman, um he has to save the world from Satan and Saddam Hussein, who are trying to destroy the world, okay? So he does it by letting out a string of swear words.

SPEAKER_03 45:42

Alright.

SPEAKER_01 45:42

And he saves the worst word he can think of until last. Okay, so I'm gonna read you his string of swear words now. Come on. Quick shit cock, ass titties, bone a bitch, math, pussy, cat batto, Barbara Streisand. Oh now he's offended.

SPEAKER_04 46:02

I have no words. And I will not respond with a swear word. I would not lower myself.

SPEAKER_00 46:13

I saw that and I thought, oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 46:18

I couldn't fit this theme better. So that was the worst swear word that that character could think of. Barbara Streisand.

SPEAKER_04 46:30

I might actually start saying that instead of the swear words. Oh, Barbara Streisand. Oh, Barbara Streisand! Again, it does what it says on the tin. It's got the T's, it's got the S, it's got the D in the A. It really is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:45

Yeah. Reclaim it as a swear word.

SPEAKER_04 46:48

I'm gonna reclaim Barbara Streisand. Absolutely. I love that. I love that. Makes me want to watch South Park now.

SPEAKER_01 46:57

Or I don't think you'd like it.

SPEAKER_04 47:00

Makes me want to watch South Park.

unknown 47:02

It's a park.

SPEAKER_01 47:03

It's a park. So yeah, so swearing on the whole, from my point of view, on the whole, a good thing.

SPEAKER_04 47:11

For me, if I know it's a psychologically safe space for me and for the other people, then I will happily swear as a storyteller. Other than that, if you're trying to be abusive, then you're a fucker anyway, but um, you know, uh no, there's no place for it. For me, it's it's perfect. South Park is Barbara Streisand. And Long.

SPEAKER_01 47:32

And that's apparently, you know, they said that, and besides just like disappearing smoke exploded.

unknown 47:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 47:40

Yeah, I think she could be quite a good weapon of mass destruction, Barbara.

SPEAKER_01 47:45

So my darling, do you have a L English word of the week?

SPEAKER_04 47:49

I have, yeah. I have got one. There were two I was gonna do, but I think I'll do this one.

SPEAKER_00 47:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 47:55

I came across this today actually, because I was thinking of these words. I went, Oh, we done this, and I looked at our list and I thought we'd done it, but it isn't there.

SPEAKER_00 48:02

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 48:03

Um there's something similar, but it isn't there. But my Welsh word today. So I was on a train, I was going in from Delage today into town for a meeting, and um I recognised an actor after Telly. Off the telly! That's funny that I was an actor to say that. But I recognise a uh quite well-known actor. Young actor who's doing a lot of work. And I was surprised because and I know this, for God's sakes, you know, when you're on TV, you look bigger, you look uh taller, wider, whatever, but I was surprised how little he looked. He looked a dut. Was he a little duck? He was a dut. He was a little. I said to Michael, oh God, he was a duck. This man, I couldn't get over him like a little boy, like a dut. So my my Welsh word, I'm not saying who it was. My Welsh word today is Dut.

SPEAKER_01 48:53

Duty D. I'm surprised we haven't done that one.

SPEAKER_04 48:56

DWT. We haven't. It's not on the list. DWT, little Dutch.

SPEAKER_03 49:00

Well, they were just a Dutch of a poor duty little thing.

SPEAKER_04 49:04

And Duty as well. I used to love Duty.

SPEAKER_01 49:06

Do you remember Duty T was Duty? Yeah, he was Duty, or she was Duty. So that's the kind of adjective rather than the noun, isn't it? Yeah. It's great. And it's not expressive because it's a little short word, isn't it? Yeah. Dut, dut.

SPEAKER_04 49:20

Um and they were yeah, and they were just little, they were small, duty. And I loved that. And that's where I got the word today. I went, oh god, we haven't done that. So I I came home and checked it. I went, no, it's not there. So yeah, if somebody is small and pocket-sized or just little duty, and it's it's not even really short, just duty, small features.

SPEAKER_01 49:46

Yes, anything or petite.

SPEAKER_04 49:48

Yeah, yes.

SPEAKER_01 49:49

Isn't it? You know. Only a little duty, was only a little.

SPEAKER_04 49:54

Yeah, they are often you describe something like that. I mean they wouldn't say boo to a goose, you know, the little dut. Nothing aggressive about that. So that's my English word of the uh of the week.

SPEAKER_01 50:05

Dut. Dut. I'm surprised we haven't done that one before. It's a good one.

SPEAKER_04 50:09

DWT.

SPEAKER_01 50:10

D W T Dut. There you go. No.

SPEAKER_04 50:14

What is your cultural event of the week?

SPEAKER_01 50:17

Oh my my my heart is breaking. My heart is plumbing breaking, you know. I'm outraged. I'm outraged. I don't know whether you heard um in the news a couple of weeks ago, maybe a month ago or something, not quite recently, anyway. Um, you know, there was the big theft of the some of the crown jewels in from the Louvre in Paris, yeah, yeah. Yeah, okay. Not long after that, um, Thebes also broke into St. Argens, the National History Museum, just outside Caldip. They broke into one of the galleries there. And all it said in the news, first of all, was that thieves have broken in and they've made off with some items from the Bronze Age. And having worked for the National Museum for a few years, and you know, sort of been behind the scenes and visited St. Fagans, obviously, professionally many times, I was quite familiar with those displays. And I was racking my brain, oh my god, what have they taken? What have they taken? What have they taken? And today there was an update um to say what those items were. And God, they're they're irreplaceable, priceless, irreplaceable artifacts from the Bronze Age. Gold, um, so we don't always know the purpose of gold dress items or jewellery items that we find from prehistoric times because we know we assume oh, it might look like a bracelet, or it looks like this, or it looks like that. We don't know really very often what they were used for. Um, but there were things that looked as though they could have been bracelets, like very finely uh wrought spiral bits of you know, spiral gold, very, very fine craftsmanship. So there were there were a few of those, there were a group of other golden objects, and then most of all, there's an object. Well, there was an object in in the display called um a lunala, and it's like a big flat beaten gold sheet that went around the neck, so like a necklace, but you know, like a big, massive, thick. So I don't know whether you're familiar with the torque, um, which again was a neck ornament, so it wasn't quite like that, it was flat, like a sheet of gold. So you can imagine, can't you? Absolutely stunning, and it was always displayed, these things were displayed so beautifully, and they're irreplaceable, and they're absolutely priceless, and they've gone. They've gone. They've actually arrested two men. Uh, they've made a couple of arrests, but apparently the police don't know where these things are. So they've either been sold into the black market at probably a fraction of their price, because you know, these things people know them, you know, when people steal these objects from museums, it must be really difficult to fence them, to get rid of them, to sell them, unless you're selling to really unscrupulous bad people, which is maybe what happened. So they may have gone into some private collection, but my worst fear is that they've been destroyed, they've been knotted down. I think that's what's probably happening. Oh, and you know, it absolutely breaks my heart. I know it's a stupid thing to say because I I have an emotional tie to an object, but I do, you know, I do have emotional ties to objects. Um and this is so old, so historically important for not just for Wales, but for Bronze Age culture in general. And it was like one of the signature items in the collection. And it's bloody gone. Some bastards stole it.

SPEAKER_04 54:09

That's when you really want to swear. Um I don't think it's stupid to say. I don't think we need to, you know, measure it against, you know, it's not a life or it's not this. We know all that, of course we do. But these are, as you said, these these artifacts, these items have survived centuries and centuries.

SPEAKER_03 54:28

Millennia and what to what end? Why do it? Why, yeah. To what end?

SPEAKER_04 54:37

It's uh to me it's two things. It's the it's the cr I think theft is a terrible crime anyway, taking what isn't yours. But also it's such ignorance.

SPEAKER_01 54:46

Yeah, it's probably in that way, isn't it? You know, not like nobody's been hurt.

SPEAKER_03 54:51

No, yeah, we get all that. We get all that.

SPEAKER_01 54:53

Nobody's been hurt, nobody's been threatened. Yeah, fair enough. But bloody how does you say why? To what purpose?

SPEAKER_04 54:59

Just nick cash from a bank if you have to be a st uh uh you know, if you have to steal. Um I don't understand it. Or just fucking work harder. Get a proper job. Get a fucking job and work harder. Um, because I know they've totally melted down the stuff from Paris, I would have thought. Because also, where are you gonna fence this stuff? Where on earth are you gonna find it?

SPEAKER_01 55:22

Well, exactly. Unless unless, you know, because no antique dealer would deal with it. No. Right, reputable antique dealer or whatever, because they know they're on the lookout for these kinds of things. Um But then I guess there are disreputable dealers who will happily take things that they know to be stolen off off your hands and sell it on to uh, you know, I'm assuming like Russian oligarchs.

SPEAKER_04 55:48

Markets that we'll never see.

SPEAKER_01 55:50

North Korea. Yeah, and it's gonna go in some idiots bloody private collection, you know.

SPEAKER_04 55:56

Well, that's where you kind of it would have to be somewhere that yeah, the most most of the uh the world couldn't get access to. Because what's the point in having them if you can't show them? That's the other thing I don't understand. Why would I have something I'd have to keep under lock and key and never show anybody? It makes no sense.

SPEAKER_01 56:13

No, it doesn't make any sense at all. It really doesn't. And I I just find it really it makes me angry. It makes me angry. Oh, and if I I can and I can imagine my ex-colleagues at the museum, you know, and how they're you're feeling about all this, and yeah, oh, they must be heartbroken. Oh, good God. Terrible, terrible, terrible. Anyway, so that's quite a donor. So I hope yours is a bit more positive.

SPEAKER_04 56:42

It is a bit more positive, and you're part of it.

SPEAKER_01 56:46

Oh my lord.

SPEAKER_04 56:47

So my cultural event, which will come as no surprise to you, was my visit to Salisbury on the weekend.

SPEAKER_01 56:56

Oh, I forgot you were there as well.

SPEAKER_04 56:57

Yeah. You were there, huh? You booked a beautiful Airbnb. Uh shout out to the Airbnb on Exeter Street. Uh and we had a fabulous weekend. Uh we weren't particularly cultured, the five of us. But what was I uh and I was thinking about, shall I mention this? Mike said, What are you going to do for your cultural event of the week? And I went, I'm going to do Salisbury. Because I didn't do much research. You know me, I'm a bit oh, I'll just rock up and do it. Um Michael's like, I've not seen the house. Yeah, I've seen the photos, but we've all looked. I love turning up and being surprised, and the house was fabulous. And I know of Salisbury, but I'd never been there before. It's one of the few actual cities I I haven't been to, because I've toured a lot with theatre. And I just thought it was beautiful. I thought the cathedral, as you know, was magnificent.

SPEAKER_01 57:53

Yeah, you say we went cultural, we went to the cathedral.

SPEAKER_04 57:56

I went to the cathedral and went home and kept drinking.

SPEAKER_03 57:58

But yes.

SPEAKER_01 58:00

Yes. It was mostly alcohol. We were cultural. We were cultural. Go to the cathedral. I dragged you around there for a while.

SPEAKER_04 58:07

I was just gonna say to the listeners, you know, if you want a wonderful guide, I started the guide with a lot of other people following this. Very nice um volunteer, it was a lovely guide, but I ended up having a one-on-one with Dr. Rihanna Piebrak. Uh it was fabulous. I loved it. Um, I did think the cathedral was amazing. I thought your knowledge of it was fabulous. Um, and I thought as a as a city it was just beautiful, really beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 58:34

Yeah, it's very pretty. And that area around the cathedral, isn't the cathedral close with all the kind of historic buildings there, 17th, 18th century, lovely bricks.

SPEAKER_04 58:44

And we had the most fantastic weather as well. We were really blessed.

SPEAKER_01 58:47

We were very lucky with the weather, weren't it? It was a lovely sunny day on Saturday.

SPEAKER_04 58:50

It was just lovely. Yeah, um, and I just really enjoyed it. And I also enjoyed not just the cathedral, I enjoyed that little department store, you know, that very old-fashioned department store. It's just it's retained its oils, but it's really you know, you go somewhere and you kind of go, you could be anywhere. But this really had a s a sense of uh of itself, it was very unique.

SPEAKER_01 59:11

Yeah, yeah, and not too big either. You know, it's a city, obviously, because it's got a cathedral, but you know, compared to somewhere like you know a a big metropolis like card there.

SPEAKER_04 59:21

Yeah, newport.

SPEAKER_01 59:23

Oh newport. Oh Lord.

SPEAKER_04 59:25

What I loved about Salisbury Cathedral is where it it just stood alone. Yeah. It's just its placement. It's like a it is like a Christmas card, it just stands alone. And I think as much as like the uh you know the architecture is fabulous, just the walk towards it is just wonderful. You just take this in.

SPEAKER_01 59:42

That's quite great. It is very well placed in that sense. You can you can get a good photo of it.

SPEAKER_04 59:47

So that was my culture event. And you're right, we were cultured. We had some fabulous food, we had some fabulous oh my god, I bought we didn't have it. I bought that fantastic brie with truffle. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 59:58

Have you been eating that?

SPEAKER_04 59:59

I have indeed. I wish I'd bought the Mancheago with truffle, actually. Oh, it was yours, because you bought a French red cheese.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:08

Yeah, I've been eating it. I had it on my roasted vegan just now. Yeah. Did you gratte it? I kind of chopped, sliced and chopped it. It's it's it's very hard. It's got the kind of texture of pecorino or parmesan, something like that. And but it wasn't sort of a gratable kind of chunk, if you know what I mean. The sort of shape of it didn't lend itself very well to grating, so I just kind of hacked bits off. Do you shave it? Shaved it. That's what I did. I shaved it. You shaved it. Yeah.

unknown 1:00:41

There we go.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:41

Lovely.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:42

And very nice too. Well, I think we've done all that, my darling.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:45

I think we have. I think we're fucking done.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:47

I think we've bloody that's I couldn't think of a swear word then.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:51

You just did.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:53

Oh bloody See, I say it without thinking.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:56

Good old fashioned.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:58

I say you've had happy thinking, mate.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:00

You do. I mean, you Well. I mean, what's the matter with you, you barber strice hand?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:05

Oh, okay. There's no need for that.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:07

Too far. Too far.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:09

You've got sorry, you've gone too far, that's it.

unknown 1:01:11

Alright.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:11

Alright, I'm finishing. Goodbye.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:13

Alright, bye.