What's your Ideal Holiday?

We’re all going on a summer holiday, no more working for a week or twoooo…

That’s enough of Cliff, thank you!

But it is nearly that time of year, the holibobs are approaching, so Rhianydd and Morgan turn their thoughts this week to the ideal holiday.

Will it be a boutique hotel where you can sit by the pool sipping cocktails and listening to your favourite episode of WCITJ (on headphones of course or Morgan will have you kicked out by security)?

Or would you prefer culture-filled city break, mooching around museums and art-galleries, tasting local delicacies and pretending to like them?

Or how about two-weeks all-inclusive in Ibiza, reliving your clubbing days? Remember, sleeping is cheating!

Join us this week at the beach-front bar as Morgan dons his favourite mankini and Rhianydd covers herself in extra-strength inspect repellent to discuss this most relaxing of topics.

We’ll also treat you to our latest WWW and (relatively up to date!) cultural moments.

Don’t forget your passport!

Follow Morgan James @morganjamesofficial

Music by James Biebrach

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:16

Hello and welcome to Whose Coat Is That Jacket? Old Friends, New Conversations with me, Rihannis B.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

Brack, and him Morgan James.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Hey, hello.

SPEAKER_00 0:30

Hello.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

How are you? I'm alright, yeah, I'm okay.

SPEAKER_00 0:35

Catching my breath.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

Yeah, you're busy?

SPEAKER_02 0:38

Quite busy, yeah. You? Yeah, yeah, it's that time of year. It's that time of year when we got GCSEs coming up, coursework coming in, deadlines hovering on the horizon, like crows on the cradle. Yeah, so it's a bit grim. Yeah, it's still Easter coming up soon.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

Easter. It's a funny time of year, isn't it? Because it's people in business tell me it's the you know it's the end of the tax year. I've obviously we've all had to get our taxes in. Yeah, I've gone from being the resting actor for January, February, and now it's like it's a circa and I won't say no. I've never learned to say no. Just in case. What about when the famine comes? So I take everything, and of course, what happens is you you meet yourself coming home.

SPEAKER_02 1:21

Yes, exactly. But you know the famine might be on its way because uh that twat in America is cocking everything up. No politics, no mention of him. But you know, gotta be prepared. I'm hoarding beans already and gin.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:37

So, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

Um I might be giving something away, but we might touch on that a little later. Oh a little later in the show, let's see.

SPEAKER_02 1:48

A little later in the show.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

I'm intrigued. Have you got a theme for us this week? It's my turn, isn't it? I believe so. Yeah. I hope so. Otherwise, there's no podcast. There's no podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Good night! Good night. Um, yes, I have got a theme. You and I love a little bit of we love continuity. We love uh congruency. We love it to be connected. So indeed, it is the spring. Everything is alive, everything's blooming. My hay fever is insane. My skin is itching. I love spring. Spring doesn't like me. Um, but it's uh it's also coming up the East holidays. So it's holiday time, and people are thinking about the summer, and we've had a lovely couple of days of warm weather. Have you had good weather done with you?

SPEAKER_02 2:31

Oh, fab, yeah. Cold wind, cold east wind, but out of the wind, it's been blooming gorgeous. I actually caught the sun on uh Sunday. I caught the sun on Sunday. Yeah, on my arms. Good dreams. Sat out the back, caught the sun.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Um, yeah, it is, you're right. It's a cold wind. Um as Michael keeps telling me, you know, lovely day, but it's cold okay, but then again, you've got to remember, it's only early April. Yeah, I know, I know. Um but the holidays are coming, and we're thinking of summer, so I thought let's look ahead to those lovely, balmy evenings. Long drawn-out summer nights. Riannit. Morgan. What are the elements that make up your ideal vacation?

SPEAKER_02 3:17

Can we say holiday?

SPEAKER_00 3:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 3:22

I'm just gonna put that out there that I'm gonna use the word holiday. I'm not doing vacations and I'm not doing hollybobs.

SPEAKER_00 3:28

Yeah, I do. No, I don't do hollybobs. Okay, uh, you're right. What are the uh what are the elements that make up your ideal holiday?

SPEAKER_02 3:35

Holiday, holiday. Ooh. Um, bloody hell. Okay. I tell I tell you what, I tell you what. This feels like this is your area. You know, this is it because you do you do love a holiday, do you? You do have a little break.

SPEAKER_00 3:53

I do love travel. I do love travel.

SPEAKER_02 3:56

Well, generally, you've got to travel to go on holiday. Yeah, so you go first. You go first, because I feel as though you've got more to contribute to this than maybe I have.

SPEAKER_00 4:07

I like travelling, and I think because of my job, I am fortunate or unfortunate, depending on one's passion and one's bent. But I am very fortunate to travel a lot with my job. Or certainly I have been historically slightly changed when Covid happened. Uh, but I have done a lot of theatre tours over overseas. I did a world tour with river dance, and then when I started to coach and work in presentation skills and behaviours, I worked with a lot of organisations around the world, I've sung around the world. So yeah, I've I've been very lucky to travel a lot and I like it. And I do like a holiday. And for me, I think what makes up the perfect holiday. I was gonna say it has to be overseas. It doesn't have to be overseas, but I am I do love other cultures. I do love going somewhere that is very different. But then I've had some fantastic trips in this country. So we've it's not about location, it's more about the elements that make up a holiday. I was thinking you probably think it's very easy for me to fall into that trap of loving a really luxurious hotel, you know. And I do love a lobby. I love a hotel lobby.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

Not fussed on the rooms. I don't need a room, I'll just bear down on the setting.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

Do you know what I've started doing now? If I'm in town in London, in in town and I want to go somewhere like for a cup of tea or something, I'd rather go to a nice old-fashioned hotel lobby or you know, um bar rather than like a Starbucks or a Pret or those endless bloody chains where it's all chains, yeah. Absolutely. I love a hotel. Um so I do like a nice hotel.

SPEAKER_02 5:51

Um Premier Inn.

SPEAKER_00 5:53

Hey, I love a Premier Inn. I love a Premier Inn. Comfy bed. Do you know what though? This is important to me. Comfort, Premier Inn that was one of those comfortable beds. Cleanliness, I can't slum it on I can't slum in on holidays. No. And silence. And Premier Inn are known for their thick concrete and metal wall, you know, they got metal in between each room in the walls. Oh, those were his three promises.

SPEAKER_02 6:22

That's interesting. Because when you stay in a premier inn, you know, you do always think, oh god, what's gonna wake me up in the middle of the night now? You know, stag party coming home or rampant shagging on the in the other room, or if you lucky cry, if you're lucky, kids crying or shouting or whatever. And no, there never is, is there? No tellys blaring. There never is. I did not know that was the reason. Correct me if I'm wrong.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

No, correct me if I'm wrong. Anybody uh has more information than this, but my my uh understanding is that the founder, and I don't know his name, or certainly the CEO the CEU, Mr. Premier Inn, three things he wanted for his customers. Comfortable night's sleep, yeah, cleanliness, never in question, and silence. So thick doors, and the walls have fantastic insulation between each room. And the TVs can only go up to 28. You can't so you can't be kept awake by somebody's TV next door.

SPEAKER_02 7:32

How the hell do you know so much about Premier Inn? Can I just ask that? That's an unnatural amount of knowledge.

SPEAKER_00 7:37

I have stayed in quite a lot premier in's with a job I did, and I refuse to stay in these, like, you know, naff, bloody B's, or you know, like four-in-a-bed hotels run by somebody, and it's uh I would rather just because it's work, I'd rather turn up, know the template, know it's clean, know it's got uh internet if I have to work. I don't want any of this kind of oh, let's get the eyeda down off, or you know.

SPEAKER_02 8:00

Yeah, candy wick bed spread.

SPEAKER_00 8:02

No thanks. Life's too short. Life's too short to sit on the end of a bed with nasty carpet wondering where your life is going. So funny you should mention premiering, because that's probably what I want. I love uh I do like comfort, but not indulgent. I don't want to be in some fancy five, six star hotel. They're lovely on occasion when we've done it. I've thoroughly enjoyed them. We've had our fair share, but I like a bit of character. Um, but not enough character. The yeah, you've got the eyed down and the pubic hair on the, you know, I want some kind of That's too much character. Too much character. You can you can over characterise something.

SPEAKER_02 8:42

You can be, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:44

Um so I would probably, you know, if I was staying in a hotel overseas, I wouldn't necessarily stay in a chain, because you could be anywhere. Uh like a Marriott or a Four Seasons or equivalent Premier Inn or Hilton, I'd probably stay in an individual boutique hotel, but of a certain standard.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

Of course. Would it have to be a hotel? Would you self-cater? I do like an Airbnb, but you've got to be careful there, haven't you?

SPEAKER_00 9:11

You have. Because you don't know to what standard it is. We've had some lovely ones and we've had such shark as yeah, same.

SPEAKER_02 9:20

I on the whole, I've had really good experiences with Airbnb, but I find their prices have bloody gone up as well. It used to be the cheap option, didn't it? But it's not anymore. Um, yeah, the the last Airbnb we were in wasn't the best.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

Where were you?

SPEAKER_02 9:37

No, no locations mentioned.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

Okay, probably best, yeah. Probably best. Um I uh we've stayed in some lovely Airbnbs, but in the beautiful one in Bologna with Mike's mum, which is beautiful. I don't have an elitism, I have a standard, I think. When I'm away, I don't want to have to put up with. And I think that possibly comes from my upbringing. I was very fortunate when I was young, as you know, you know, my mum and dad sort of when they had my brothers, I think they didn't have much money at all, and they come from very, you know, uh working class stock. But by the time they had me, and by the time I was sort of coming of age, my parents in their respective careers were earning quite good money. So I was privy to go on quite a lot of really lovely holidays. And we always had nice hotels. Um, but if the room wasn't right or, you know, we didn't have a good view, which was very rare, but you know, oh well, whatever. We put and I remember thinking, no, no, no, no, no, no, I'm not putting up with you. I'm not gonna be high maintenance, I'm not gonna be like some members. This is a really funny subject, actually. Uh, because there's some members of my family who are quite high maintenance like that. But I I won't put up with, so I won't put up with uh you know, it's i it's gotta be cle it's yeah, it's gotta be the basics, it's gotta be clean, it's gotta be um comfortable. Uh and by that I think a little bit of luxury, you know, a really nice bed. It's gotta have nice decor. You know? Yeah, yeah. And it's gotta have a view. Nice view. I've gotta see where I am. I always remember that uh lovely scene in a room with a view uh between Maggie Smith and Denham Elliott, where Helena Bonham Carter and Maggie Smith, she's her aunt, and they're in Florence and they have no view, and he's there with his son Julian Sands, and he gives them his room. He said, My view's in there, and I always remember going, Yeah, I'm sorry, Denham. No, I take the view. I gotta be honest with you. When I say in there, pointing to his head, he was like, you know, my view's in there. I don't need a view. I capture the view. And I remember watching it as a teenager going, nah, I want the view, sorry.

SPEAKER_02 11:52

Well, I think if you're in Florence, you kind of do, really, don't you? You really do.

SPEAKER_00 11:55

I don't want to look at a wall.

SPEAKER_02 11:57

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, where where? What location are we talking about? Are you going coastal? Are you going inland? Are you going city? Are you going rural? What are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 12:10

I do love coastal. I do love coast because it is a real break, it's a really different environment. But I uh my brother and his wife, my brother's a pilot. They've just gone to uh Muscat to some fabulous, you know, oasis hotel that has a hundred meter pool and is probably six stars and you know the middle of nowhere, and they probably serve them the best champagne and lobster and god knows what. That would be my idea of hell. Even though I use Muscat in the UAE Oman.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:49

It would be my idea of hell. So going somewhere purely to indulge would I could do it, but I know, and don't get me wrong, I've just said it has to be clean, it has to be comfortably, has to be aesthetically pleased, and has to have you. All those boxes, that doesn't mean it has to be grand. I think I'd go berserk within about eight within about a day.

SPEAKER_02 13:09

Yeah. Is it one of those places that you can't really go anywhere while you're there because well, I don't know, there's nowhere else to go. I'd need a bit of culture.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

The rest of it is desert. I'd need a bit of culture. Bit of culture. And yeah, you know, we're all out there, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 13:25

Yeah, I've gone to a Greek island where there's nothing and had the best seven days ever. You know, I remember going to Gozo, which is off Malta. And there's nothing there. I mean it's beautiful, it's old, it's fantastic, but there's not much there. And I had the best time. So perhaps I'm being a bit judgy there. I just I think character's quite important. You know? Somewhere has to have a soul, a heart. Uh if I'm going somewhere, I want to sort of I all I almost want the place to be like meeting a person. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_02 14:02

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it does. Yeah, yeah. I can see how you you absolutely do love it, don't you? And um I mean we all like a holiday.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

But I love travel.

SPEAKER_02 14:14

You love travelling, yeah. See, I it's the travelling I could do without. If I could click my fingers or do a bit of a rent to ghost and you know, sort of just be there, then I'd be more likely to go further afield. But it's just the thought of oh god, airports and long flights, and I just hate flying anyway. Ugh. It puts me off wanting to go somewhere on the other side of the world or even somewhere. I mean, we're going to Italy now in um at the end of May. Uh, and what's that gonna be? I don't know, a three-hour flight or something.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

There you go, Naples.

SPEAKER_02 14:52

Uh yeah, Naples.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

Yeah, about two and a half hours, yeah, three hours.

SPEAKER_02 14:55

Yeah, and you know, that's nothing, is it, in the big scheme of things, but I'm already thinking, oh god, why? Why can't I just go, you know, why can't I just appear there?

SPEAKER_00 15:09

No, in a flash. I actually agree with you more than you think. As you know, I've always loved flying. I've always been excited by it. I love the smell of it, I love airlines, you know. When I was a kid, you if you went you went away quite a bit as well, and uh kids in school, they'd bring me back sick bags, do you remember, with the with the motif on it and the in-flight magazine? I've got them all up the loft. I mean, I've got bags of this rotting bloody iconography from older airlines, Air Europe, Dan Air, Britannia. So I loved all that. That's gone. I mean, I've flown a lot, I've been very lucky with my brother, he's been very good and with work. Um, I'm with you now. If I could click my fingers, when I say travelling, I don't mean the process of going to the airport, checking in, getting on the air. That bit is horrific, but I mean being there. So I'll put up with it to get there. I know that you um Tom and I have talked about it a lot because I think he has this kind of almost, dare I say, horrific fascination with the cruise that we went on. I never would have dreamed Michael and I would go on a cruise. So we went on a cruise in 2023, in May 23. Friends of ours in America had this thing going on, it was coming out of COVID, and it's a very good day. It was it was a very beautiful cruise. Michael had never been on it, and I remember when they asked us in 2022 um and we were all coming out of COVID, weren't we? And we had nobody been anywhere. And Mike and I are a couple that would go, you're right, uh historically, we would go away a lot, a weekend here, weekend there, even if it was Wales or whatever, or overseas and whatever. Um and um we booked this without thinking about it and then thought, look, if we if we hate it, we're the type of people that are gonna have fun, and if we love it, we're in marriage. And uh Mike's mum got very ill, and uh we didn't know if we would go, and actually we really could do do with a break. Uh and I have to say it was kind of it it ticked so many boxes because it was so comfortable, it was so the cabin was beautiful, had this wonderful balcony, so you looked out on the sea all the time, which I loved. Um, I'd never sailed before. Yeah, I mean the ship was vast, you'd look at it and go, that's but you don't look at the ship when you're on the ship, you're not watching yourself sail. You rarely saw people, you didn't queue up for dinner, so you could go to a restaurant uh at any time you wanted to, you could get us involved, you could do art classes, you could go to lectures, you could go swimming, or you could just go for a walk around, you could go to some remote. I don't know how they did it on this ship, Rihanna. I think I've told you, but it's somehow Michael and I could be on it for hours and barely see anybody. But what I loved is every day you woke up in a different place. Yeah. It was brilliant. So you're like, oh great, I'm in Dubrovnik, or I'm in Naples, or I'm in Montenegro, I'm in Rome. You kind of went, this is fucking brilliant. Um the only thing is you've got thousands of people getting off the ship to see the sights. So you've got to be quite, you know, we learned very quickly, never do a trip, never do any of that. So it's I'm not saying I'm a cruising is for me, I haven't been on another one. Not that kind of cruising. The other the other cruising I'm very good at. Um on a daily, daily basis. But that did tick a lot of boxes, surprisingly. So it had it was very comfortable for me. I'm a bit of OCD, it's very clean. Um, great food. We've talked about food before. Um, not too crowded, people were quite well behaved. I'm making sound awful now. But every day you got to be somewhere else. And Mike and I would just fuck off on our own and we'd go and explore the old part of the town, or you know, depending on where we were, we went to uh Zakinhos. So we just did some research, got there, jumped in a cab, went the other side of the island to a complete remote beach. That was a beach day. Then we got to Rome and we so it kind of was a really amazing nine days. Another place I really love, which I've been to a lot with work, is Lausanne in Switzerland, which is on Lake Geneva. And again, this it kind of has a little bit of culture, some obviously of the mountains there, you've got the water, you've got some great restaurants. It's very aesthetically pleasing.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

I do love Well, you want to be somewhere beautiful, don't you? You don't want to be in a slum or I don't know, somewhere Yeah, you want to you want to have something to look at. You want it to be beautiful and an attractive place.

SPEAKER_00 19:47

And yeah, one of the best trips I've ever had in my life was when I worked in New Delhi, which I wouldn't call a beautiful city, but it was phenomenal. I mean it was phenomenal. Cultural.

SPEAKER_02 20:00

Could you go on holiday there though?

SPEAKER_00 20:02

Yeah, that's the thing.

SPEAKER_02 20:04

So we're talking about holidays rather than just travelling. So you were saying you've travelled a lot for work, but you're not on holiday there, no, yeah. It was different.

SPEAKER_00 20:12

No, and you're staying in a in a an incredibly luxurious hotel which almost isolates you from the rest of the city in a way. You kind of step out into this vast, heaving city, which is just attacks all your senses and is just incredible and wonderful, and somewhere that I'd go back to in a second. But you're right, would I go on vacation there? I I mean it would be hard work.

unknown 20:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

But I think that's what you don't want on a holiday. Because I think that because interestingly now, you do a lot of what I would probably call hard work holidays.

SPEAKER_02 20:48

Camping! You really I'm the camp one.

SPEAKER_00 20:52

You're the camp one, and I'm the you know, it's not ironic that I'm the kind of gay one with the clutch bag and the towel, and I I'm the carry-on, aren't I? I'm the little Barbara Windsor character that just walks up along the poem in carry-on abroad.

SPEAKER_02 21:03

Yeah, with your little towel and your and your little uh whatchall it? Swimming cap. Yeah with flowers on, plastic flowers.

SPEAKER_00 21:10

Yeah. Nice dinner and nice. But I need to, yeah, I need something to do. I need a I need a little I need quite a bit of culture. It's a place in Spain camping?

SPEAKER_02 21:20

And are there any circumstances under which I could persuade you to go camping? And I don't mean clamping. None of your bloody yurts or your pods, right? An actual tent that you've put up yourself.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

We used to camp a lot as kids, didn't we?

SPEAKER_02 21:36

Yeah. Yeah, in the garden.

SPEAKER_00 21:38

In the garden. And I went camping as a kid with my parents. I mean, endlessly, caravans and camping in Cornwall, Devon. And we did Eurocamp once in France. And I loved it. I was only about nine. And I remember my mother was in such a bad mood when we got there. But I looking back, I got it. My mother was a nurse. She was probably in her When are we talking? She was probably about 44, and she would have two weeks off a year. And my father'd booked two weeks in fucking Normandy in a tent with molehills under the canvas. She was probably going, Are you kidding me? I just want it And she had to cook meals every night. So basically she was doing her job in France. But she loved it actually. She loved it. So would I So I suppose that that does answer my question, doesn't it? So that I want to hear about you now. But yeah, mine is mine is just the right amount of luxury. Not too pretentious. Just the right amount of ooh, nice dinner, spend a bit of time wandering the streets, taking a museum or a gallery. I'm not into shows or anything like that. Um and then perhaps find a nice quiet bar somewhere and just spend hours just chatting shit. Bit like we're doing now, but in the warm. Gotta be warm as well. I can't be cold. I can't be cold.

SPEAKER_03 22:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

Would I camp? I would go camping with you and Tom, yeah, because I think we'd have fun. And I don't think I'd be terrible at it. But I think there's a shelf life. I think there's a shelf life. There's there's a departure date that needs to be in heavy, if not not heavy pencil, in pen when I leave. I mean I couldn't do Glastonbury or any of that shit. I could not do it. When I was young, I couldn't do it. I can't do it.

SPEAKER_02 23:27

I I went on a to a festival once. Once I've been, and um I would go again, I would go again to a festival, but yeah, the toilet situation isn't great. Isn't great.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

You see, so this is the this is the oxymoron for me, Rihanna. So you go about your point about cruises, and again I take it in the spirit is meant, but you're like, oh my god, it would just be the idea of being trapped with all these people. To me, and I'm not making it up, Michael and I could go literally a whole day and barely see anybody on a cruise ship. If I went to a festival, I am shoulder to shoulder with people.

SPEAKER_03 24:06

No, that's true who haven't showered.

SPEAKER_00 24:08

They haven't showered, they're queueing for the fucking toilet, they're probably eating stuff out of, you know, Tupperware, which is stinking, they could cook it about four days ago, so there's all these musky smells, got hair smelling, I'm there with my skin itching because I haven't washed and I'm drying out because of my psoriasis. So it's interesting that you can do that, but you couldn't do a ship which is luxurious.

SPEAKER_02 24:33

I don't know. I think I I don't think festivals are my ideal break, I've got to say. I did enjoy the one I went on, but it was about three years ago, and I haven't been on another one. So that kind of uh tells you something. But it you know, it was good. But yeah, you I mean you're all in, you've got to gotta buy into the situation, which I suppose you've got to do with the cruise as well, haven't you? You know if you go into a festival that yeah, you are gonna be queuing for a compost toilet, you know, and you you may as well not bother about personal hygiene for the entire week. I mean, there were showers there. Did I have one? I can't remember. We were only there for a weekend, it was like a Friday to a Monday kind of thing. I think I probably did without a shower.

SPEAKER_00 25:15

I'd rather go without a shower.

SPEAKER_02 25:16

I remember buying a hat, I had to buy a hat because my hair just got so bloody awful and rank, I couldn't do anything with it because it's too short for me to tie back. So uh, you know, it's not like I can tie it up or anything. So I did I had to buy a hat to just cover it up at one point. Um but other than that, uh oh, and our tent fell down as well. So we ended up putting it in a skip. But other than that, it was great. Other than that, it was great.

SPEAKER_00 25:44

So why do you like camping then? What is it about camping that you love?

SPEAKER_02 25:48

Well, when the boys were little, it was cheap. It was that we could go on holiday and it wasn't gonna break the bank. You know, when kids, like you say you enjoyed it. When you were nine, it was it's an adventure, isn't it? It was fun, it was fun. So um it started off like that. But I actually, yeah, you know, I I do enjoy we go and camp in the summer. Um so we have a good laugh. It's it's not always brilliant. Obviously, if the weather's crap, it can be miserable. And when the children were little, having a week in the rain in a tent with two children was not pleasant. But we were lucky, or we were always lucky, and we'd always look at the forecast. And you know, we'd book last minute, we wouldn't kind of book like I had done this summer now, you know, three months in advance, four months in advance. So we'd be looking at the weather forecast. Oh, it looks quite good next week, let's go next week, kind of thing. Because the thought of being stuck. I can remember one holiday we were in Dorset, it was one of the first years we went away, and it bloody pissed down. And but not the whole time, but the first couple of days we were there. So we went to the tank museum. Right? Well, the tank museum is every bit as scintillating as it sounds. Um, and basically every single family in Dorset who had young children with them had the same idea, and the place was just bloody rammed with little kids running around screaming. You know, everybody was damp and wet, so it was all kind of, you know, people with steaming cagouls on and that kind of thing. That kind of damp smell.

SPEAKER_03 27:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:28

Ah dear God. Yeah, been there. And uh yeah, that I then it was like, oh, a tank. Oh, another tank. Oh look, ten more tanks. Oh Christ, there's actually 20 more tanks. There's uh a hundred million tanks, and you do get quite, you know, quite you've had enough tanks in the first half an hour.

SPEAKER_03 27:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:48

So that was a bit of a challenge. I remember that one. But that was that was the way of it. That was the weather.

SPEAKER_00 27:54

And I think you're right, I think you make a really important point. Budget, you know. Um there are times where you think, well, I, you know, we want to get away. And that's why I think it's it's quite important to think about it's a light subject, but it when I when I thought about this subject, I thought, actually. And then you posed it to me again. What makes up the ideal holiday? And you you do start deconstructing it and going, you know, money no object. I still don't think I'd go to some, you know, restaurant where I'm waiting on hand, foot and finger. I don't want to go into my room and I've got a butler running me a bath. That's not a holiday for me. That wouldn't be a holiday for me. But I do want to go somewhere where I may have a fabulous view from my bathroom. I I'm up I'm up for that luxury. I do like a treat, I do like the comfort. And perhaps that's what's always put me off camping. That you know, day-to-day life is quite gruelling, and then I'm gonna go away and be gruelled, if that's the verb.

SPEAKER_02 28:54

It's a good one. I think that's a good way to put it in. Yeah, it can be a bit, you know, kind of you've got to think about everything, and it just yeah, that it's like being at home with less convenience That's a lovely holiday. I'm starting to start to question my decisions now.

SPEAKER_00 29:18

But you did say earlier it we've had a lot of fun in the camp, and that's important.

SPEAKER_02 29:23

Oh yeah, it can be great fun. It can be great fun. Like cooking outside, if you've got the weather and it's not too weedy and that kind of thing, just cooking outside, you know? Yeah, and um Tom always used to film me, we used to, which is when the the boys were with us. Do you remember when Keith Floyd Keith Floyd used to cook and Clive? And he said, Do you know Clive? Clive, come on, and he'd and he'd tell the cameraman where to um so I pretend I'd always have a glass of wine in my hand, quick slurp, just like Keith. Do you drink wine? Eh?

SPEAKER_01 29:55

Do you drink wine? Me drink wine? I'd be known to. Oh good God. It's a sharp just communion wine only.

SPEAKER_02 30:03

Got it.

SPEAKER_00 30:04

And when you're doing Keith Floyd, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:06

Uh when I'm doing Keith Floyd impressions, yeah. So it'd be that kind of thing, you know, and then the boys will be chopping something up, and you just make the thing out of the thing of it, don't you?

SPEAKER_00 30:15

Lovely.

SPEAKER_02 30:15

Yeah. When the weather's good, but if it's pissing down again or it's blowing a feckin' hooly, and you know the all the gas is getting blown away. You think well and so am I gonna cook today then? What are we eating?

SPEAKER_00 30:28

I'm gonna ask you then, as you know, you know, the the the boys have become men and flown the nest, uh, you and Tom, what stops you going, right? Let's go to a fancy hotel, or let's have a little bit of luxury, or why you and again there's no judgment in that whatsoever. Why are you kind of going, no, I want to do that. We we're gonna get we we like our camping, it gives us this. I still as I get older, I still get a lot from it.

SPEAKER_02 30:54

I like I like the feeling of being closer to nature. Very often when we've been camping and go for a walk in the evening or whatever, and you wander through the campsite, and there'll always be some people there with caravans or motorhomes, and they're sitting in their caravans or their motorhomes with the doors closed and the light on, and they're watching tell or they're on their phones, and I always walk past them look thinking, you sad bastards, you know. You've come all the way on holiday, and you can just do that in your house. You could park that on your drive, you know. Why aren't you out doing this stuff? So, yeah, so it's it's it's the fact that you are much it is more real, you are much closer to nature, and that can sometimes be a bad thing, and it can very often, you know, if it goes right, it can be a beautiful, great thing to have the sounds of um owls and little snuffling hedgehogs and all the rest of it.

SPEAKER_03 31:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:57

Um, and a couple of years ago we relented and we bought a little toilet tent, right? So it's like a little, I don't know, I suppose it's like the TARDIS, like a tent, like a telephone box type shape. And you you put your portable loo in there, right? So if you position it correctly, you can have a Wii in the morning with the window that with the door of it open, like if you face it towards a hedge or something, if you're at the edge of the field, so you point it towards the hedge. And I've had many a nice pleasant morning pee with the door of it open, just looking at the hedge row, thinking, oh, I'm in the middle of a field having a waz in the morning. I like that. Nice, yeah, nobody can see me. Yeah, that little things like that give me much pleasure, I gotta say. But yet it is lovely to go, you know. I I I do like a bit of luxury as well, so we tend to mix it up now. That's what we do. So uh end of May, as I said, we're going to um Sorento for a few days, and we will be staying in a hotel then. And then in the summer, we're going to France for three weeks on the first two weeks of counting, and the last week, the final week, is in an Airbnb. So, you know, we mix it up.

SPEAKER_00 33:20

You've got a house down there, haven't you? Is it a house or a farm or something?

SPEAKER_02 33:23

It's like, yeah, it's uh it's a house on a big estate. Um, not housing estate.

SPEAKER_03 33:30

Nice. Nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:32

A chateau type estate. And a colour to stack. And we're going in a different place every every week, you know, so we're moving around.

SPEAKER_00 33:40

Oh, lovely. I think what we've focused on, and as we're coming to the end of this one, I think it's quite it's worth probably just uh positioning it. We've both focused on our accommodation. Do you have a place that you could go back to every year?

SPEAKER_02 33:55

Um I'd probably go back to Cornwall every year. I bloody love Cornwell. Love it, love it, love it.

SPEAKER_00 34:01

Anywhere particular?

SPEAKER_02 34:03

Um, well, we've always stayed on the north coast. I quite like the south coast, but there's not any surf, you see, on the south coast, so we've gotta go to the north coast. You get some beautiful little coastal villages, as you know, in um Cornwall. And I just love the sea. I mean it's fucking freezing, but it's so clear, and I love that rugged coastline. Yeah and you know, I just get stuck into the cider and the cheese and I imagine Tom's Paul Dark and I'm De Melza.

SPEAKER_00 34:40

Is that your roadplay for the night?

SPEAKER_02 34:42

Bit of role play, yeah. Bit of role play.

SPEAKER_00 34:46

On the Cornish mountains overlooking the f the spraying sea as it hits the rocks.

SPEAKER_02 34:52

That's it. With my hair blowing in the wind, Tom galloping across the headland to save me or something. Nice, nice.

SPEAKER_00 35:02

I'm torn. I'm torn between Italy and Spain. Hmm. You love Spain, don't you? I do. I love the there's a little place just south of Barcelona that I went to as a kid and then went back to only a few years ago, and I've been quite a few times, called Sitchers. It's quite known uh with the gay population. But actually I didn't I didn't know that as a kid. And it's a it's a very family-oriented place. And what I love about it is it's a very nothing's changed. I went there in the 80s and I went back there about oh god about for the first time about seven, eight years ago. It was exactly the same. And I don't think it was my memory playing tricks on me. Nothing had been developed, nothing had been there's no high rise there. It's this beautiful little Spanish town, fishing village, um, with an old town, and the beach is lovely. It's got lots of you know, lovely restaurants with fresh fish. It's just very and it's very quiet. I love that. Michael loves it. Um but I also love um I love Italy, I love Tuscany. Um I think I do uh do I do like the med, not the Tuscany's on the med, but I do like the med. I do like it.

SPEAKER_02 36:18

Yeah, well, it is nice, nice to be able to just walk into the sea straight away. Yeah, just to be able to walk in straight in. It takes me in this country and in France as well, actually, about half an hour to get into the sea. Yeah. And I'm screaming every minute of that time.

SPEAKER_00 36:37

But we've been we've been recently going to a friend's uh of ours, Danny. I think we've talked to you about coming there, uh, in Portugal in the Algarve, and it's lovely. And there's nothing in that Algarve, there's no forgive me, I love it. Anybody from the Algarve listening, there is, but it's not it's not where you go for culture. So that is somewhere. There's lovely architecture, there's some lovely old medieval towns, there's lots going on there, and there's it, there is history there. Um, but it's also not there's not big resorts there either. It's just very quiet. And um that is somewhere where we can go and do nothing for several days and be very happy. You go down in the morning, you buy fresh fish for the night, you go perhaps go home, then have some breakfast on the balcony, and then you go down and sit on the beach and read, and then you get up for lunch. It's lovely, it's a lovely kind of routine there. Um, and the only thing I've struggled with is the sea because it's the Atlantic. Michael loves it. It takes about it takes me about four hours to get in it, and then I'm and then you're like I just stand there like a statue as it splashes over my near ridge. He loves it. He goes in in the morning, goes in the night, he much prefers it. Or it's freezing. I mean, it's the Atlantic, it's just fru and it seems odd because Portugal has such beautiful, long, uncluttered, untouched beaches, and these beautiful blue seas crashing in, and you think, Oh, I'm gonna go in there, and you're like, oh Christ, it's like going in the Irish Sea.

SPEAKER_03 38:05

It's like Jesus Christ!

SPEAKER_00 38:09

I've never been so cold.

SPEAKER_02 38:11

Yeah, no, that's no fun, is it? It's no fun.

SPEAKER_00 38:14

But it's hot, the weather's hot, so you kind of I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 38:18

Yeah. It probably feels even more cold then, doesn't it? Because it's the contrast between the air temperature and the water temperature. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:27

Currently. What we should probably do is we should do each other's holiday together. Because as you were talking, I'm thinking I was thinking, for those of our generation and older, I'm thinking of you and Tom, and that was his name, you're very much the goods, and we're probably the lead bit. When you both when you're telling me about when you're telling me about the little toilet, I was like, oh my god, they're really, really they are fucking heavy-duty campers now. They've really got this done.

SPEAKER_02 39:01

Campus Christmas, we are telling you now, we've got all the gear.

SPEAKER_00 39:04

I'd go camping with you if you had your own toilet. No solids allowed. No solids allowed.

SPEAKER_02 39:09

No, so if you're gonna do a solid, you've got to go to the toilet on the campsite to play.

SPEAKER_00 39:13

Oh god. I I think once my I was I'm so OCD of a craft like that, excuse the pun. I think once as a child we were camping in Devon and the toilets were so bad, I think I held it in for three days and got ill.

SPEAKER_02 39:26

Oh, oh god. They do tend to be alright now, to be fair. Most because camping is so bloody popular. Most campsites are are are quite decent. The only thing that really gives me the willies is bloody spiders. So, you know, I'm always on the lookout for for a spider lurking somewhere in the corner. But you can get there in any bathroom, can't you? You know?

SPEAKER_00 39:51

Oh yeah, holidays. I got lots of choices.

SPEAKER_02 39:53

Holidays. Holidays. More bloody effort than they're worth. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 39:57

My mother hates them. She hates them.

SPEAKER_02 40:00

Mine did as well. Never wanted to go on holiday.

SPEAKER_00 40:04

Hates them.

unknown 40:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:06

And at 86 she'll still say to me, you know, and that it means to be funny, she's I don't like holidays. I'm like, no shit, Sherlock. You literally the lead up to a holiday with my mother would be it'd be like mental torture. She's great when she's there, but it's about control for my mother. I don't know why your mother didn't like them, but my mother's all about control. She doesn't want to give so when she's there, she absolutely throws herself into it. But the I con my father loves holidays. The idea of going away fills my mother with absolute dread.

SPEAKER_02 40:43

So many things can go wrong, see. I I'm a bit like that. I'm a bit like that. But what oh god, what if we do that? What if this happens? What if there's a crash on the motorway? What if the plane falls out of the sky? What if I get ill before we go? We have to cancel, will I get all my money back? What if, what if I'm full of that kind of thing? I am.

SPEAKER_00 40:59

And yeah, my you know, my brother, the pilot, they just they think holidays is living, and I kinda go, well, it's a balance, really. What you like, indulge on for a little bit of time. Too many, and it just becomes nothing.

SPEAKER_03 41:13

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 41:17

So, our ideal holiday. Yours is a tent with a dark with a toilet looking at a bush, and mine is an upmarket premiere in with a pool and a little bit of culture.

SPEAKER_02 41:30

This isn't didn't go the way I was expecting it to go, but there you go.

SPEAKER_00 41:33

Why? What were you expecting?

SPEAKER_02 41:36

Well, I I wasn't expecting to end up with a tent, to be honest. But the bears that I have. Seemed to talk myself into it.

SPEAKER_00 41:44

Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:47

Um anyway, have you got a Wenglish word?

SPEAKER_00 41:50

I have. And again, you know I love a connection, you know I'll have a tie-in. Um, one of the reasons why I like to go on a holiday is to find is for some R and R, some peace, some quiet, yeah? To get away from it, or just switch off.

SPEAKER_03 42:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:06

And there's a Wenglish word that I have often said, and I'm sure you have when you want peace, when somebody's in your year or talking through television or just will not shut up, and you just want to go, I shut will I bloody iced i to know. Oh god. I Michael would spend all evening you want to say a word, and then someone will come on the telly and start talking, I'd be like that, I shut up. What's the matter with no? I was trying to spell it earlier. I can only imagine. So i shht listener is indeed that shush, shush. Yeah. Is the Wenglish for shush?

SPEAKER_02 42:41

Yeah. Isn't it? Well it's a bit more I think it's a bit more aggressive than shush. Do you think? Isn't it? I think it's a bit more shut up. Shush is a bit kind of shh shush now. Shush.

unknown 42:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:51

But i sh is.

SPEAKER_00 42:53

Yeah, ist is if you're being yeah. I was gonna say another English word, but we keep it. But iist would be if somebody is irritating you or getting on your nerves or being a nuisance.

SPEAKER_02 43:05

Yeah. Oh i sh now, Lou. Yeah. Oh, how would you spell it? I don't know. E-I-S-H-T?

SPEAKER_00 43:11

Oh, I thought A I, Aished.

SPEAKER_02 43:13

I don't know. It's not the kind of thing you write down, is it? Like a lot of these were English words. They you'd say them, but you wouldn't write them. You'd have no reason to write them.

SPEAKER_00 43:23

There's a lovely story my father tells years and years ago he was in Woolworths, I think, in Aberdeen or somewhere. And this child was crying and pulling at his mother's skirt and just crying and crying and obviously wanting something. And I love this, it's it's so Welsh. She turned to the child and went, Aish, now tell Mammy what you want, because you're not gonna have it.

SPEAKER_02 43:55

There's so many contradictions then, aren't there? First of all, Aish and tell me what you want. So it's Shut up, but actually tell me. So don't speak, but speak.

SPEAKER_00 44:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:05

Tell me what you want, because you're not gonna.

SPEAKER_00 44:06

You're not gonna have it, lovely, but tell me what you want.

SPEAKER_02 44:09

Tell me. Just so that you know before we start, you're not having it, but what is it that you want?

SPEAKER_00 44:14

Well, the iced is iced winging, iced moaning.

SPEAKER_02 44:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:17

Now tell me what you want, because you're not having it. I love that. I love that. That's a if ever there were a Wenglish sentence.

SPEAKER_02 44:29

Yeah, yeah. Completely topsy turvy. What the hell?

SPEAKER_00 44:33

Totally topsy turvy. Um so that's my Wenglish word, Aisht.

SPEAKER_02 44:38

Very good one. It's not one I've heard for a long time, I've gotta say. Did you? See how that goes down. Aisht! Oh, you're over there, Aisht. It's quite Germanic, isn't it? It does sound quite Germanic, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:53

But it's a good one. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_00 44:55

Did you get it while I was trying to explain it?

SPEAKER_02 44:57

Yes, I did.

SPEAKER_00 44:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:58

I I I was there just a millisecond after you. What's your cultural event of the week? Well is it I don't know if it's an event, really. I haven't had any events. I I wanted to share with you, and this came to me last thing at night, last night, because I had something else in mind. And then I was I was reading my book that I've got on the go, and I thought, my god, this is my cultural event. Um so, because books are culture, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:26

Yeah. I've got a few. What we're saying is what have you rather than something that's you know been published or uh premiered this week, or what we're saying is what yeah, what have you stumbled across?

SPEAKER_02 45:38

What are we saying that's cultured? Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 45:40

Read a book.

SPEAKER_02 45:41

Yeah, well, I'm always reading a book. I always read a book at night. When I'm lying in bed, I usually I manage about two pages and I'm gone. So it takes me, tend does tend to take me several months to read a book sometimes. So the one I'm reading at the moment is called The Observant Walker by a man called John Wright.

SPEAKER_01 46:00

Right.

SPEAKER_02 46:01

And John Wright is he's so good, he's so good. So he I first came across him watching River Cottage, you know with who Fernley stole?

SPEAKER_03 46:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 46:15

Um and he used to go on foraging trips with John Wright. So John Wright is an expert forager, and he's so knowledgeable, he knows all these different fungi and plants and all the rest of it. Um so which sounds really boring, I know, but he's hilarious. He's hilarious. I've got a couple of his books. Um, one of them is called the Foragers Calendar, and he talks about, you know, goes through basically every month of the year and what you can find out and about. And he was talking about one particular mushroom to avoid, can't remember what it was called. I just don't pick mushrooms. Um, and he said, he said, if you eat this, you will live to regret it, but not for long. Brilliant. Anyway, that's not my cultural thing. That's just showing you what an absolute lad John Wright is. Okay, so I was reading this last night, and um he was talking about walking through um a field, walking through a field, and he was saying what wonderful things cow pats are, right? Because there's so much life associated with a cow pat, because insects obviously feed on them. There's a particular fungus that grows on a cow pat called the cow pat gem. Um so I just wanted to read you a short extract from his book, okay, if I if I can, on the subject of cow pats, because this is what I found myself reading in bed last night, and it it just made me so happy.

SPEAKER_00 47:53

But it's also tying into our uh episode about you know, elements of perfect holiday, yours is clearly camping and pissing in a possible toilet looking at a bush. And a cow pat will be part of that scenario.

SPEAKER_02 48:05

In a cow patty field, yes. Um it just made me so happy that I'm alive in the same world as this man, essentially, and and this book. So um he says, studying cowpats in the field is a bit odd. So I suggest bringing one home in a bucket and placing it in a quiet corner of the garden. Check every now and then for insects and fungi. At some point you will need to look more closely by taking a bit of it apart to see what has developed inside. I strongly suggest you obtain your cow pat from an organic farm or a nature reserve, as some of the medicines given to cattle can kill any prospective fungi and invertebrates. He goes on. There is an excellent little book by a couple of old friends of mine, Roy Watling and Mike Richardson, entitled Keys to Fungi on Dung. A great read for the enthusiast, if no one else. There is also a more substantial book, 165 pages, keying out and listing most of the invertebrates found on dung. It is called Insects of the British How Dung Community. Copies are rare and very expensive, but you might be able to find it online as a file. In a particularly eye-catching piece of nominative determinism, the name of the author is Peter Skidmore. What a wonderful, wonderful man.

SPEAKER_00 49:38

I love it what a wonderful book. I love how we're talking about.

SPEAKER_02 49:42

The Observant Walker is by John Wright, and it's absolutely cracking.

SPEAKER_00 49:48

Are you gonna be taking a bucket with you this camping trip?

SPEAKER_02 49:52

Uh possibly, but not for collecting cowpats. I I do draw the line at collecting cow pats, I've got to say.

SPEAKER_00 49:59

I don't know. By the time you finish that book, I'm gonna come back to you and say, right, what's your thought? What's your thoughts on cowpats now?

SPEAKER_02 50:05

But that's the fact that there are people out there who've written books on and that he's got them. You know, cow pat, what is it, invertebrates of the British cow pat.

SPEAKER_00 50:16

165 pages that he's read.

SPEAKER_02 50:18

165 pages. And I didn't read out the price. He said it was expensive. 400 quid. For the book.

unknown 50:25

For the book.

SPEAKER_02 50:26

For the book! For the book on cow pats. 400 pounds! 400 earth pounds.

SPEAKER_00 50:36

Is that because the the gentleman who wrote that realized this we're not gonna retire on this? So let's make it really expensive.

SPEAKER_02 50:44

Possibly, possibly. Or maybe it's a very rare out-of-print, you know.

SPEAKER_00 50:48

Possibly, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:50

Fly fishing by J.R. Hartley type um.

SPEAKER_00 50:54

There's a part of me that would have loved to have been at that pitch.

SPEAKER_01 50:58

For the cow pat work. Yeah, what have you got for us? So what's your next book on? Well, I'd be thinking cowpats. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:05

Tell me more.

SPEAKER_02 51:07

Well, the mushrooms that grow on them. Tell me more.

SPEAKER_00 51:12

Okay, yeah. I mean, yeah, the book sounds lovely. And I love what you say that you you're you share a planet with that man. That's such a lovely way to see it.

SPEAKER_02 51:21

Oh, it's fabulous, isn't it? Just to know that there are people in the world out there like him. Yes. And the fact that he is also a move at the fact that the bloke who writes about cowpats is called Peter Skidmore.

SPEAKER_00 51:31

Peter Skidmore puffer. You couldn't make that up.

SPEAKER_02 51:35

I don't think it's particularly cultural, but it's a book and that's culture. And cowpat's a culture.

SPEAKER_00 51:41

Chicken and egg as well. Did Peter Skidmore go with a name like that? I've got to write about feces, or did he write it and then, oh my god, and my name is a slang for feces.

SPEAKER_02 51:51

Yeah. Yeah. I wonder whether maybe he's the kind of man who wouldn't have put those two things together.

SPEAKER_00 51:59

Painting a picture there.

SPEAKER_02 52:01

I I I'm not sure he would have been on my dinner party list from a few weeks ago. Peter's. John Wright, however, he would have been. I should have had him.

SPEAKER_00 52:10

Well, clearly, but that's gonna be dinner party number two.

SPEAKER_02 52:13

Yeah, John Wright's there. He can bring all the foraged ingredients and bring us the cowpat gem mushroom. Which he doesn't actually say if it's edible or not, Mine, so I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 52:22

What I wouldn't want is because I'm a little bit I have a very vivid imagination. So I wouldn't want John if I was at your dinner party, and I'm assuming I would be, why would I be? I wouldn't want him going into much detail about the cowpat while you're serving the entree. I've got to be honest.

SPEAKER_02 52:41

Or maybe you could discuss it when we were having pudding, and you know, I could wheel out a nice um chocolate mousse or something at the same time.

SPEAKER_00 52:50

I might have to shut him down a couple of times like that. So, John, was you a fiffy holiday? Elements you were fiffy holder.

SPEAKER_02 52:57

So cow pads now, John.

SPEAKER_00 52:59

Alright. So, my culture reference, I was going to go. I've changed my mind. I'm gonna touch on it because you mentioned it earlier, ironically. Um, and I was going to comment on what is hard to ignore, the US president, whose name I do not mention, bringing in these tariffs and how it's I'm trying to read as much as I can about it from every platform right wing, left wing, uh centralist, a lot of economists, and I can't seem to find anyone other than his people. The fake news, obviously. Um I can't seem to find anyone who says A, this makes sense, and B, this is a good thing moving forward. Really, for the US more than anybody else. You know, the projected uh deceleration is something like from 2.8 to 1.6 in 2026. I mean, they're looking to really ruin their economy. I don't understand it. Anyway, I'm marking it by referencing it, but I don't want to talk about it. It's uh, as you say, it's a frightening time, and God only knows what these misogynist men are have in store for us. The next episode of Lunacy. But what I am going to talk about is something a bit more uplifting. It is about men. Um, and I went to the theatre on Saturday. Oh, that's nice. What did you see? I went to the National to see my dear friend Liz White in a production uh of a play called Dear England by James Graham. It's about uh Sir Gareth Southgate and the English football team. And as you know, yeah, I love my rugby, I love my tennis, I love swimming, and I but I have zero interest in football. And Michael, who will watch any sport, has zero interest in football. So I was literally going to see Liz because I, you know, I go, we s we all, you know, when a friend's in something, you go and I couldn't wait to see her. But I was kind of going thinking, oh gosh, I don't want to watch this. I just don't want to see this. It was the most joyous three hours I've had at the theatre for such a long time. Oh it was absolutely wonderful, beautifully written by James Graham, wonderfully directed, um, fantastic ensemble, it was funny, it was moving, and it really introduced me to Gareth Southgate, who of course I've heard of, but didn't realise just how much impact he had, not just on football, but on the identity of it, on the identity of England. You know, we uh I think of football, I think of hooliganism, I think of fighting, I think of you know, smashing up streets, I think of um toxic masculinity, all those kind of cliches, and yet they're they're alive and well. And I didn't realise how much work he did to try and change that. That you know, you kind of think of football, people who like football players, putting up with it. But actually, you know, when he missed so it starts with when he missed the World Cup, '96, I think it was, he missed the penalty and lost them, the match.

SPEAKER_02 56:04

Oh right.

SPEAKER_00 56:05

And his mental health after that was deeply disturbed. And as he references in Carrot and the play, um, you know, I had nobody there for me, and I don't want people to go around that. And I want us to start asking, you know, what it what does it mean to play this game and why do we play it? And they got an Australian psychotherapist in, played by Liz, who sort of helped put them on the road to thinking not just about what they do, but how they do it and how they communicate and what it means not just to win, because again there was this thing, Dear England, this is the letter he wrote after the riots, um when they lost one of the was it final or semi-final? Uh the question she got him and the team to think about is, you know why is this assumption that England should always get to the final? Why is it just because you won in 66? No other country has that assumption. Everybody wants to get to the final, but no Portugal don't assume, well look, it's our rightful place. It's our right and therefore if we don't get there, we're gonna smash the cities up. Um and it looked at what does it mean not just to win, but what does it mean to lose? What does that do for us? How do we handle defeat? Um, and it it was just a really, really fantastic piece of theatre. And you like this on a personal note. Um Grillam, the guy playing Garrett Southgate, played Brian May in the movie We Were Rocky.

SPEAKER_01 57:33

Oh, gosh, really.

SPEAKER_02 57:36

Yeah. Well, well, well. Lovely man. You can tell him that if you see him.

SPEAKER_00 57:42

Did a fan well, I wish I'd known I did tow to him on Saturday! Oh he did a lovely job of Garrett Southgate as well. He took the teeth out when I met him, but he did other crooked nose.

SPEAKER_02 57:51

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:52

But he really inhabited him. He really did. You forgot.

SPEAKER_02 57:58

I can't say I know very much about Gareth Southgate, I've got to say, because like you, I couldn't give a damn about football. Yeah. And especially not English football. Um, so he's not somebody on my radar. But I think I think I have heard of this play. Um, and isn't he supposed to be like yeah, like a kind of really positive male role model? Fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 58:22

Fantastic. So um uh and you know, um, was it Rashbrook who started the Free Meals for Kids because he Oh Rashford Rashford, sorry, who started the Free Meals, he was under Gareth Southgate. You know, he really did inspire positive role models. And apparently I've yet to see it, but I want to watch it. He's just done a fantastic talk. The Richard Dimbleby talks. Gareth Southgate's just given a fantastic talk there. And I think this is his new life now, this is where he's going, that he's becoming this um speaker and this individual that really is questioning what it means to be a man in today's society. Yeah, yeah. Particularly in sport as well, I think. Because you know, we do think of football as racist and homophobic and yobbish. And it made me step because I a lot of my friends like football, and I have I just I'm not interested. And I I I thought, well, I am carrying a prejudice there. There are people trying to change it. Um because I know when I go to a rugby match, you can be in the stand and you can be standing next to somebody from the opposite team and both have a wonderful time.

SPEAKER_02 59:29

Yeah, yeah. There doesn't seem to be the same kind of argy barge, you know, everybody's friendly and you know, just get on with it. You can you can mix the fans together and it doesn't matter, they're not gonna start chucking, you know, ripping up the chairs and chucking them around. Yeah. That's that's that's the big difference, I think, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 59:47

It's but it was just such a positive message and really made me look at the game in a different light as well.

SPEAKER_02 59:53

So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:55

Oh that was my cultural event.

SPEAKER_02 59:58

But doing more slightly more cultural than my co-pats, I I admit. Yes, I think you probably you probably won this week. Do you think? I think so, yes. I think you probably did.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:11

I lost out with the price of the drinks at the Nashville, let me tell you now.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:14

Oh, how much?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:16

Go on. Oh, theatre's expensive. Theatre's expensive.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:20

Yeah. So what what did you buy? And I'll see if I can guess.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:24

We were in the matinee. So it was me and Mike, and then it was Lizzy's partner and daughter, and I bought drinks. And that was also lovely, because Liz's daughter's nine and she'd never seen her mum on stage before, so that was rather lovely. I bought a g I bought a large glass of wine, I bought a ginger beer, I bought a cloudy lemonade, and I bought two packets of crisps.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:43

Large glass of wine, ginger beer, cloudy lemonade. Oh, you didn't have much change change from 20 quid then, did you?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:50

I didn't have much change from 26 pounds.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:53

Shit almighty. Good God.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:01

Taking the piss, and it's just gonna get worse if that man over there has anything to do with it.

unknown 1:01:08

Anyway.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:09

Well, time to go camping, I say, and do some more foraging.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:14

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:14

Maybe we're all gonna need those cow pats before long.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:17

Well, I'm thinking take a bucket and bring the cow pat home and then you can grow your mushrooms, Ked.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:21

Grow your mushrooms, yeah. You could probably make a cowpat wine.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:25

Yeah, do we? Anyway, on that note, I'm gonna go and book my holiday.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:31

Camping. Woohoo! Yeah. Pitch up, that's the website you want to be on. Pitch up, that's your camping website. I will have a look at it.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:39

And I think you should book that cruise.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:42

Oh my lord. No. Yeah. I'm about as likely to go on a cruise as you are actually likely to come camping with me.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:50

I'm gonna go camping, but if I do, you're gonna have to come on a cruise. Deal? Uh nah. Deal. No. I'm gonna get you out of that comfort zone, kicking and screaming. I love her face right now, listener, is absolute pain. On that note, I'm gonna say goodnight and see you soon.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:11

See you soon, hoil. Hoil.