JOSH WHARMBY - friends with Brian Friedman, clean machine and choreographing for Kelly Rowland!

This week Zoë interviews the INCREDIBLE Josh Wharmby to find out all about his journey into the commercial World and how he's still in the game now! They discuss some iconic performances, choreographing for legends such as Kelly Rowland and the friends he's met along the way!

Josh insta: https://www.instagram.com/joshwharmby/

Phase training company insta: https://www.instagram.com/phasetrainingcompany/

Josh website: https://www.joshwharmby.com/

Nicole, Poison - X Factor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Av_WttPAuE4

Nude fishnets: https://www.shein.co.uk/Hot-Professional-Hard-Mesh-Tights-Latin-Dance-Fishnet-Stockings-Competition-Special-Pantyhose-Sole-Non-Slip-Bone-Line-Oxford-Socks-p-46321972.html?src_identifier=st%3D2%60sc%3Dbeige+one+size+fishnet%60sr%3D0%60ps%3D1&src_module=search&src_tab_page_id=page_goods_detail1776853903345&mallCode=1&pageListType=4&imgRatio=3-4&detailBusinessFrom=0-1_46321972%7C0-2&pageListType=4&main_attr=27_1000110

Thankyou for listening!

Find all the songs mentioned in our spotify playlists!

https://open.spotify.com/user/31t7e7ibcbntq6ziwbonzbra7ape?si=L0XQuZlnTYq8_ybkvlliaQ

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dancetothispodcast/?hl=en

Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@dancetothispod

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hi everyone, welcome back to Dance This Podcast with me, Zoe Francesca, the podcast where you can find great songs to dance to. This week it is just me by myself. We do have Minnie just here. I feel like she's not gonna contribute as much to the podcast. So it will just be my voice till our incredible, incredible guest Josh Warmbee comes on. Just you wait, guys. But before then, foundation files. This week is something that we honestly cannot live without as dancers. Nude fishnet tights. Let me tell you, we wear these weekly. And until I found this pair, I went through so many, so many pairs of this. I know Jess is the same. Sorry, Stone at Mini Jess is really putting me off. Um, but yeah, until we found these pairs, honestly, you go through so many, but I have found, you guys, the best pair of fishnets I think I've ever found. They are so elasticated, but it's tiny little, I will pop a picture on Instagram, tiny little uh strings wound each other, wound round each other. So it's like doubly, quadruply as strong. They are honestly really great. I've had these pairs for a while now and not one single hole. I know Jess always gets a hole in the crotch. I always get holes in the toes, but these honestly have been amazing. So I will pop a link below because honestly, you need these in your life. These are just perfect for wearing under any costume, but also we sometimes wear them over like a shiny tight. Sometimes for Taylor Swift tribute, we do, we put them over. If not, I literally will just wear these by themselves and go out on stage, and it gives you such a good coverage. And because they're so stretchy, it just like keeps you in, makes you feel like you're wearing an outfit. They are perfect for stage, so that is definitely, definitely something going in. The foundation files, guys. Josh is honestly amazing. The career that this man has had, I can't wait for you to hear about it. The names dropped in this episode are just incredible. I think even Josh couldn't believe that he was saying it in his it was his life. And the inspiration, wait till the math's class minute at the end. It's a really good one, you guys. So without further ado, let's get into the episode with Josh Womby. Enjoy. Let's go. Welcome, Josh, to the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

Thanks for coming. Let's tell the listeners first of all what you do in the industry now.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

What I do in the industry now is a choreographer. Perfect. Um, started off as a dancer and then slowly transitioned into choreography. So that is currently what I do.

SPEAKER_01 2:48

Yes. I'm so excited to get into this call. All the questions. Let's go all the way from the top. Take it on take it from the top, is what the section is called. All the way back. We'll get into the song in a minute. Where did you first start dancing?

SPEAKER_00 3:00

So maybe not a lot of people know this, but my I'm from a dancing family. So my mum and dad owned a dance school.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

Oh, amazing.

SPEAKER_00 3:07

Um from when I was well, from since I was born, from before I was born. They had uh one of the biggest and most successful dance schools in the Northwest for like 30 years.

SPEAKER_03 3:17

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 3:18

So, and at the time it was called Harlequin Stage School. Um, so that was my life from birth to when I decided to take it seriously as a career.

SPEAKER_01 3:27

So you had no escape.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

I had no escape, and it was one of them, you know, like when mum and dad were at work, usually you'd like you'd go to a babysitter or you'd stay with family or whatever, but we would get dragged to the dance school.

SPEAKER_01 3:40

So that is amazing.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

My earliest memories are being around dance, yeah, and being immersed in it and seeing it all around.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

And I think it was only about when I was about five or six that I finally decided to like get up and give it a go. So it took a fair minute. It wasn't like I was there and I was just into it straight away. My mum said I used to just come, bring my toys and just play and ignore everyone. And then one day she was like, You just got up and went and stood at the back behind the girls and just started doing stuff.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

I just started copying it.

SPEAKER_00 4:07

Yeah. And like everyone was like, wait, don't say anything, just in case you said back on. But like from there, I just carried on.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

Oh my gosh, amazing. So your song is What You Dance To at Master Dance.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

That's right, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

Which is exciting. Yeah. Let's play a little bit of it. When Doves Cry by Prince.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

What a tune.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

What a tune. Let's stick it in. So I'm guessing it was the traditional jazz, ballet, tap, that kind of school.

SPEAKER_00 4:37

Correct. So when I went to um I actually did master dance through my college at the time. So I was 16 when I did it, I believe. Um have you heard of Master Dance? Do you know what it is? And Miss Dance.

SPEAKER_03 4:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:48

So I don't know if it's still big now, but it used to be really big back then. I think it was. You're talking like almost 20 years ago. So I know I'm old.

SPEAKER_02 4:55

No, I think I'm not sure. No, I'm actually 25. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

Um so when I was 16, my the woman, Bev, who owned my college, was like, I really think you should do this. Let me choreograph your solo. And I was like, Yeah, okay, cool, fine, whatever, let's do it. Um and this was she picked a song for me. This was the song that she picked, and it was very we used to call it street dance back then.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

It was very street dance merged with jazz.

SPEAKER_01 5:20

Right, yeah, because I was gonna say, when I think master dance, like miss dance, they're all like jazz pieces or like.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

The thing was we knew that my preferred way of movement was more street styles.

SPEAKER_02 5:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:35

I was never a technical dancer, I just did the cause I had to. Um, so we thought it would be cool to mix it up a little bit and do something that no one else was doing because back then everyone would do either a ballet solo or a real techie jazz solo or a contemporary or something like that. Yeah, and I knew that I could do something a little bit different, so yeah, we kind of just mixed it up a little bit, did like a street jazz kind of vibe, and it worked because I won.

SPEAKER_01 5:59

So that's why that song is, you know, yeah, so prevalent in my first like when I was a teenager, the beginning of me. That's good that it was received so well. Yeah because at that time I'm I'm just thinking back to cons. It was like traditional, do this, do this, do this, do this. But the fact he went in there with a shortcut.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

Well, I've never really been one to like follow the crowd.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

That's good, stick it out. I love that. How was it being a young boy dancing? Were there many other boys around you doing it at that time, or were you like, I'm gonna do this?

SPEAKER_00 6:28

And it was I can't say I've been through the struggles of like what I hear other boys have been through, but you know, when I was in school, I was the only boy in my entire school that danced. Actually, there was one other boy, and he was he was a lot younger than me. Um, you might know him, actually, this guy called Adam Lyons. Yes, he's the man in finance.

SPEAKER_01 6:47

Yes. So I went to school with Adam.

SPEAKER_00 6:51

So I went to school with Adam, and I don't really think he was dancing as much back then, but he was the only other boy that I knew in my like school life that danced as well. So you know I'd get the usual Yeah. Do you do ballet? Do you do ballet? Are you gay? Like this, that, and I'm just like, oh my god, there we go. So I I think every male dancer back then would have probably gone through the same experience. Um, but in my dance school specifically, in my mum and dad's dance school, there was there were not a lot of boys.

SPEAKER_02 7:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:17

Espe again, you're going back like 20, 25 years ago, there were not that many boys.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:22

Um now it's completely different.

SPEAKER_01 7:23

Oh my gosh, it's completely different.

SPEAKER_00 7:24

It's completely different.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

Move it. I saw more boys than I did girls. Honestly, mainstage was just for like amazing. The the power like it's just amazing.

SPEAKER_00 7:33

Which is which is great, but you know, growing up for me, I didn't really have a lot of male dancers around me.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

Yeah. Um, but I suppose you didn't know any different being in your dance school. Like you just saw dad, it was just dance all the time, and that's just what your life was.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

Yeah, and my dad was my main teacher, so yeah. Like I was being taught by a male. Yeah, yeah. Well, my mum and dad. My mum was definitely more like jazz, ballet, and my dad was the street side, so we got a bit of both.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

That is so cool. Yeah. Why not bring in a laugh that I know? I know.

SPEAKER_00 8:01

It's very different.

SPEAKER_01 8:01

I know it is different, but it's so cool, just like you said, going to on a Saturday to go into the dance studio. Like, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 8:07

But there was never an escape from it, which was hard. You know, every day was that, dance, dance. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:12

And look at you now. Every day is dance, dance, dance.

SPEAKER_00 8:15

Nothing's changed. In fact, it's got worse.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

Got even more. Was it always something you wanted to do, like from a young age, seeing your mum and dad in it, just being in that world, or did you have other plans, other aspirations?

SPEAKER_00 8:28

I can honestly say there was never another option. There was nothing else that I was interested in in terms of like making it into a career.

SPEAKER_02 8:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:35

I mean, when you're young and you're dancing, you're just dancing for fun, aren't you?

SPEAKER_02 8:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:39

You're not dancing thinking this is I want this to be my job.

SPEAKER_02 8:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

I mean, maybe some people do, but for me, it wasn't that. I only really decided when I was like around 15, 16, and I knew that the time was coming where I could either stay on at school and do A levels or I could leave and potentially go to a dance college. Yeah. And A levels was just not an option for me. It was just, I couldn't think of anything more boring, to be honest. Yeah. You're not academically. And then when I'd when I'd kind of when the when the switch had flipped in my head and I decided, okay, I'm going to try this dance thing. What do I need A levels for? Yeah. You're going to do that. I just thought I never knew. Yeah, and then I started looking into things properly, and then I realized, oh, I can actually really give this a go or a career. I'm not just dancing for fun anymore. Like I can actually make this into something.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

Ooh, so where did you go then?

SPEAKER_00 9:26

So then I went to um a dance college called Dolphin Dance Studios in Liverpool, which no one's probably ever heard of.

SPEAKER_01 9:32

Oh no, I've never heard of that.

SPEAKER_00 9:33

Um and that's where I did my Master Dance Solo. So I went there from 16 to like I'm gonna say almost 18. So a couple of years. Um and it wasn't really a college like you don't get a degree or a diploma or anything like that. We just went and we danced.

SPEAKER_02 9:51

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

No written work, no academic side, nothing. It was just pure dance. Oh, yeah. Because I was like, oh, this is definitely a bit of me. Um and you know, through there I met a lot of people, and then when I was almost 18, I was on a nice house in Liverpool and I bumped into a family friend of ours who was the head of dance of the diploma course at Lippa.

SPEAKER_01 10:15

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

And she was like, What are you doing? Where are you? And I was like, Oh my Dolphin. She was like, You should consider coming to Lippa. She was like, The course has already started, but I can just get you on. Like she used to go to my mum and dad's dance school.

SPEAKER_01 10:25

Oh my gosh, it literally is who you know, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 10:28

So I was like, Lippa, what's that? Like, I'd never heard of it, whatever. Um, and eight weeks later I was at Lippa. So I I left Dolphin and went to Lippa. Oh wow, where I did another year on the diploma course.

SPEAKER_02 10:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

Um and had to do some written work. And had to do some written work, unfortunately. Um, yeah, so that's where I went. I went to Dolphin Dance Studios and then I went to Lippa.

SPEAKER_01 10:52

Let's go on to the turning point. Okay. How early on did you think I am actually gonna make this my career? Was it at Lippa? Was it just after you finished Lippa? What kind of when was it which you like?

SPEAKER_00 11:04

So when I transferred to Lippa and I did that full year of my diploma course, I started to branch out a little bit with networking, and I made a few friends in in London. So Kimberly Taylor, Sean Niles, they were some of the first people that I had contact with who really opened my eyes to what the industry was in London. Because in Liverpool it was not the same at all. There was not not nothing, but you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The big time things were happening in London, and this was the year after, so this was in 2010, and in 2009 and eight is when Brian Friedman came over and took over X Factor as the creative director.

SPEAKER_02 11:40

Amazing.

SPEAKER_00 11:41

So London was buzzing, everyone wanted to do that job, and I was like, I need to do that. That's when I really started thinking like that's what I have to do. Yes, if I'm gonna make this happen, it has to be that kind of thing. That's not gonna happen, staying in Liverpool. So I was really at like a crossroads. I didn't know whether to stay at Lippa because the the foundation course or the diploma course was only one year. And then after that, you can either leave or you can audition for the for the uh the BA course, which is the degree course, which is three years. And I thought, do I want to stay here for another three years? Or should I just go and try?

SPEAKER_02 12:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:14

And against my better judgment, I thought, let me just stay, I'll re-audition, I'll do three years, and I'll try and do make things happen along the way. So I re-auditioned, I got in, and it was probably not even two months in. I get a text off someone, I can't remember who it was, but someone from London saying, X Factor's doing open auditions, you need to come down to London, you have to be there. It's a it's an open call, blah blah blah. So I was like, right, cool. So I pulled a circuit from Lippa.

SPEAKER_03 12:46

Ah, Josh!

SPEAKER_00 12:47

I know, what a naughty boy. But at that time, they were not lenient about stuff like that. It wasn't like, oh, you've got an audition, yeah, go. It was like, no, this is your course, you come and you attend. Yeah. So I was like, peace out, I'm on the train to London. Um, I just turned 18.

SPEAKER_01 13:04

This is wild. I cannot believe how young you were.

SPEAKER_00 13:06

Yeah, oh, I was a baby. I'm gonna show you some evidence in a second.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

Oh my gosh, I've got receipts.

SPEAKER_00 13:11

So I got the train down to London and I very quickly realized that it was not an open audition and that you had to write down which agency had sent you to the audition. So I was like, right, what do I do? Do I lie or do I just go back home? Go back home. Obviously, it wasn't an option. No, but when I tell you this audition was probably the biggest audition in Europe at the time, there was thousands of people. Yeah. So it was held at the Dominion Theatre, which is where we were Rocky is. Yes, we were rocky. Oh, okay. And there was a a queue, so the Dominion Theatre is a circle, and there was a like a spiral of people going around. It was like a music. It just was just never ending. Yeah, and I thought, oh my god, what have I done? Anyway, queued up, got to the front, looked at the most common agency, which happened to be Coots, Jerry Don't Kill Me, and I just wrote down Coots. I just wrote down, I've been sent by Coots. This was my name, blah, blah, blah. They let me in.

SPEAKER_01 14:04

I love it.

SPEAKER_00 14:04

They let me in. So I thought, I'm in. Smash in. I'm in. Now I've just got to book the job. So stayed all day. It was like 9 a.m. till 10 p.m. It was a whole day situation. They did multiple, multiple cuts. Somehow, I'm still there at the end. Somehow. And I'm there with people. I'm talking like people that I'd looked up to. Yeah. Like Sisko Gomez, Kimberly Taylor, Sean Niles, Nika Klunt. Like there was people from Europe there. Like people from France, people from Spain, people from Italy used to fly over to do this audition. And that little 18-year-old skinny me has just stood there, like, what is going on? Anyway, I'm in the final lineup, and the way they used to do X Factor was they would keep a pool of dancers. So they would keep a pool of male dancers and a pool of female, maybe 20, 25 per group. And then every week, depending on the brief, they would call in different people who matched the brief that week. So you don't actually know if you've ever booked a job.

SPEAKER_02 14:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

But I knew that I was in the final selection. And then I'm going to grab my bag and I get a tap on my shoulder. It's Jerry. And I was like, oh no. And he was like, Can you come over here? And so I followed him. Anyway, he literally just wanted to introduce me to Brian. That was it. So I'm now meeting Brian Freedman. I'm now meeting Jerry. And as it turns out, Jerry ended up signing me after that audition to Cute's agency.

SPEAKER_01 15:21

You literally must be gonna wrote me over by writing it down. Which is just insane. Does he know you wrote it down?

SPEAKER_00 15:28

I don't actually know, to be fair.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

Excuses!

SPEAKER_00 15:31

I don't actually know. I can't imagine he's the type of person that would care.

SPEAKER_01 15:34

To be honest. That's amazing though. I can't believe that.

SPEAKER_00 15:36

And this was.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

Oh, this is going straight on the Instagram.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

This was my first X Factor audition.

SPEAKER_01 15:43

Oh my gosh. Are you in the middle?

SPEAKER_00 15:46

That's me.

SPEAKER_01 15:49

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

I can confirm my body looks nothing like that now.

SPEAKER_01 15:53

You literally like that.

SPEAKER_00 15:54

That's what it looks like when you're a starving dance student.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

Wow, that is crazy.

SPEAKER_00 15:59

So that was me in the final lineup.

SPEAKER_01 16:00

So when they're like hey.

SPEAKER_00 16:02

At the end of the audition, they'd be like, boys getting a line, tops off, and they'd go along with the camera. And that was that moment.

SPEAKER_01 16:07

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

Um, and then I went back to Lipper because I thought, well, it's not gonna happen, obviously. Went back to Liffa. I was in rehearsals for movie, ironically, and I happened to check my phone and I had a text from a random number, and it was Jerry, and he was like, Are you available? Blah blah blah to blah blah blah for X Factor. And I was like, I can be, I am gonna be. Oh my god, I nearly passed out. I nearly passed out, and then I went down to London, I did that week on X Factor, and then from there, I think I did about six or seven weeks on that one season.

SPEAKER_01 16:38

That is amazing.

SPEAKER_00 16:39

Back to back to back.

SPEAKER_01 16:40

How fun!

SPEAKER_00 16:40

And that's how I ended up dancing for Nicole.

SPEAKER_01 16:42

Wow, Nicole Scherzinger, by the way.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

Nicole Scherzinger from the Pussycat dolls. Um so while I was doing those weeks on X Factor, she just released Poison and it was her, it was the worldwide premiere of that song. It was the first time she'd ever performed it live.

SPEAKER_01 16:57

Look at you smiling while you're saying it. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 17:00

I genuinely couldn't believe it. Yeah, like to me, this was the absolute start of my career.

SPEAKER_02 17:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:05

It was the first time I'd ever booked the job, number one, and it was the first artist that I ever performed for. And it was all within that X Factor show. So if I'd have never gone to that audition, well, we probably wouldn't even be sitting here now.

SPEAKER_01 17:15

So yeah, that really kicked it off. Oh my gosh, this is a banger.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

It's a banger.

SPEAKER_01 17:20

This is a banger, a pot banger. What a art that buzz from performing that. I can just imagine.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

And you know what's crazy? I could dance the whole thing for you right now. I still remember every single no joke. Like, I still remember and I can't even remember what I did yesterday. I'm such a forgetful person, but I can remember every move to that conversation.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

That is amazing. So was it just that literally, you're 18, you're with Bryant, you're on X Factor. Like, that is just mind-blowing. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

And and all the other uh dancers, it was all male, it was an all male cast except for two females who were like they just flanked Nicole shoulders the whole time. Everyone else was male, and it was all boys. I was the youngest boy on the job. That's amazing. They were all, it was like James Collins, Sean Niles, like uh Theo Maddox, Cisco men in the industry. Yeah, it was just like it was people that I'd looked up to for years and years and years, and I was just like, wow, this is great. How did I even get in there? Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 18:19

I would have watched that on TV because I watched it all.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

Yeah, and it's and now when you look at it on YouTube, it's like not even in HD, it's so grainy. It was 2010, it's like 16 years ago.

SPEAKER_01 18:29

That is crazy. That that even being I'm a little bit younger than you, only a little bit, but like watching that, it was like X Factor was like the job. It's like if you're dancing on X Factor, you are.

SPEAKER_00 18:39

Yeah, like people still talk about that in a core performance to this day. Yeah, like people still talk about it, and I think X-Factor held such like a high level of like prestige in the industry, like like you've just said, everyone wanted to do it, everyone, not even from this country, wanted to do it. It was such a global thing, yeah, that yeah, every dan every commercial dancer back then wanted to be on that show.

SPEAKER_01 19:04

And you did it. And I did it. Oh my gosh. How did you then navigate from there further into the industry with more incredible artists and keep that momentum going, still being in Liverpool?

SPEAKER_00 19:13

I say this to my students all the time. It was just about who I met on the ride. It really was like from so quick example from doing Nicole Shares and got on X Factor. Well, I'd already met Brian anyway, but I met Brian, so I then went on to work with Brian for years. But I met a guy called Zach Reese who was also a French dancer on Nicole, but he was also the choreographer of X-Factor in France, so I then went over to France and I did X Factor France as a dancer with Zach. I then went on to assist Zach on other projects.

SPEAKER_02 19:44

Love it.

SPEAKER_00 19:45

And I just met so many people from job to job where they would then branch off and do more stuff, and then they'd ask me if I was available, and then it really was just like a snowball effect. Yeah, it was. We went on to do a lot more with Nicole. Um, she would do like summertime ball at Wembley Stadium and stuff like that. Um, so it wasn't just like a one gig see you later, yeah. It was like a an ongoing thing, and then you know, I did X Factor for years after that, so it was but every year he would make us re-audition.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

No way, yeah, no way, and if you know Brian, that's very Brian.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

He would make us re-audition because he wanted us to earn the spot, not get comfortable. And I respect that completely.

SPEAKER_01 20:24

Oh yeah, 100%, especially when you got hungry ones coming up underneath you.

SPEAKER_00 20:27

And I had no I had no issue with that because I I do believe that in this industry it's very easy to get complacent when you're doing well. Um, and I'm just not that type of person. Like I always want to be better, I always want to do more.

SPEAKER_02 20:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:39

So I'm like, okay, yeah. I mean, it's a bit annoying that I've been doing the show for four or five years.

SPEAKER_01 20:45

Like, oh, still after five years, it's true every year.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

Everyone had to re-audition every year.

SPEAKER_01 20:49

Love that.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:50

Wow, that's amazing. How um did you keep wait, not how did you, because I don't know the answer to this. Did you keep going to Lippa or was that it you finished? Oh, that was me done. See you later. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:01

And it was funny because my intention was because I was well aware I could have done three, four, five, six weeks on X Factor. That could have been me done. I might never have worked again. I have no idea. So I didn't want to close that door completely. But then once I was in my like fifth or sixth week, and then I got asked to do in a call and stuff like that. I was like, how could I possibly go back there?

SPEAKER_02 21:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

And like, and and my head of dance was really nice. A woman called Sarah Baker, and she was like, Listen, if you do come back, you're gonna have to catch up on all the written work and everything. I was like, Yeah, that's me.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

That's no thanks.

SPEAKER_00 21:34

It's been a pleasure, it's been an absolute pleasure.

SPEAKER_01 21:37

Imagine the come down after all this crazy life.

SPEAKER_00 21:40

In Battalica, are you crazy? Right. But not just lipper, like anywhere. Like I'm in it. Once I had a taste of that, I was like, oh no, no, this is me. I need to do this. And honestly, I wasn't even that good. Like, I genuinely wasn't even. I just feel like maybe someone's seen something, which is great. But I learned I became a professional dancer on the job. I was not a professional dancer before I went there. No way. X Factor literally taught me everything I know.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 22:07

Yeah. It really made me like just such a better dancer.

SPEAKER_01 22:11

Well, dancing with those people you look up to and literally being right next to the book.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

And learning, you know, like under someone like Brian and having that pressure and learning how to work under pressure. That's why I always say, like, after X-Factor, I feel like I can do anything. It prepared me for everything.

SPEAKER_02 22:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:27

There's no other job in the world where you have to learn a number 15 minutes before you go live because they've decided to change the song. Wild. And you're learning it in we used to call it area 51, where you do your quick changes, and we have to wear bin bags for costumes. Because the number wasn't planned. And Brian's in there going, one Yana, two, Yana, three, Yana, four. Not just like, let's walk for an eight. It's like, no, no, let's do one and two and three and four, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. We learn an entire number in 15 minutes. That's no exaggeration.

unknown 22:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:54

And we had to wear bin bags and we had to style them with duct tape to like make shapes out of them and stuff to make it look like high fashion.

SPEAKER_01 23:02

I was doing in my garden.

SPEAKER_00 23:02

That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

So make it look like high fashion.

SPEAKER_00 23:05

If you can do that, you can do anything.

SPEAKER_01 23:06

Yeah, there we go. I feel like you've kept that bam bam bam pace through all your stuff you do now with FaZe and everything, which we'll get on to talk about. That is so you you can just see that where you've got that influence from.

SPEAKER_00 23:18

Like I said, I always want more. I'm never maybe satisfied satisfied is the wrong word, because I definitely am. Like I'm so happy and I'm so appreciative of everything, but like for me. You've got that dry still. There's always room for more. Well, that's why you're still in it and you're still top of the game. Well, I would like to think so. I would like to think so.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

I like to move it, move it. Your favourite dance style. You are definitely a pop fever at home.

SPEAKER_00 23:44

I'm a pop girly through and through. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

I love it. If you don't say commercial as your favourite, of course it is.

SPEAKER_00 23:51

Of course it is.

SPEAKER_01 23:52

100%. Of course it is. Um, what is it about the style, that genre of song that makes you tick?

SPEAKER_00 23:58

I think um it probably comes from growing up just watching pop stars over and over again. I was obsessed with Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, J Lo, Beyonce, like that's what that's the music that I like, that's the music that I would want to perform to. So it just feels like a natural fit.

SPEAKER_02 24:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:15

And then I kind of morphed my choreography to be when I choreograph, I always think what would I want to do if I was on stage with this artist?

SPEAKER_01 24:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:23

That's the place that I choreograph from.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 24:25

Yeah, wonderfully.

SPEAKER_00 24:26

So like I want to dance the way I want to dance if I was on stage. Yeah. So that's what my choreo is. Yeah. That's what I would want to do.

SPEAKER_01 24:33

Yes, I feel like every one of your chores is a show. Yeah, it's a show. It's a performance. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:37

Because I don't want to. Why would I want to just dance in a dance studio? That doesn't make sense to me.

SPEAKER_01 24:42

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 24:42

I'm a performer.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

Yeah. Yes, you are. I'm a performer. I love that. And a diva, apparently. Performer slash diva. No, but you know what I mean? Like I wanna know that that's good.

SPEAKER_00 24:52

With my class, like I always want people to feel like they're on stage, not in a classroom. Yeah. So that's why the live mixes and stuff help. I was just gonna say that. Everyone brings this off.

SPEAKER_01 25:01

No, it's so they're so much better to dance to. Of course they are. Than just pop on the song. You've got all the beats to hit. Yeah, so like Josh always choreographs to the live version. Not always, always, but the live. Um the live versions of the songs, like live performances and the beats and the arrangements are just well, not a lot of people know, but I actually get them produced. Do you?

SPEAKER_00 25:23

Yeah. From just for my classes. That's amazing. Now, now and again I will find a live version that already exists, but most of the stuff that you see on Instagram has been made for me.

SPEAKER_01 25:34

This is by a music producer.

SPEAKER_00 25:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:36

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 25:37

Because I just felt like I'd found a sweet spot with classes, and I felt like I could offer something different, and I felt like people responded to it in such a way that if I didn't do it, the class wouldn't feel the same.

SPEAKER_02 25:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:50

So it's for me, it's it's always an investment. Like I want to give people what they want, and I feel like people will now come to my classes knowing what they're paying for.

SPEAKER_01 25:59

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:59

And even if you know the song that I'm doing, you definitely don't know the song that I'm doing.

SPEAKER_01 26:03

Don't know the version and don't know all the beats.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

Because there's no possible way you could know it because it's never been done. Yeah, I've made it up.

SPEAKER_01 26:08

Yeah. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 26:09

Like the voice notes I send my music producer are crazy.

SPEAKER_01 26:12

You just sing it that much.

SPEAKER_00 26:14

Boom bat. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:15

That's fun though that you hear that.

SPEAKER_00 26:17

I already hear like the sections that I want to use, how I want them to sound. I just can't physically do it myself.

SPEAKER_01 26:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:24

So I bring people on board all the time.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

I love that.

SPEAKER_00 26:28

Honestly.

SPEAKER_01 26:28

Yeah, this is what I always like to note how people choreograph. I'm very much sit in my head, listen to it, work it out kind of thing. Not being in the studio. What yeah, are you you visualize it?

SPEAKER_00 26:39

I am well, it's always got to start with the song.

SPEAKER_01 26:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

Like I'll always have a song in mind when I go into the studio or whatever. Um, and then obviously, like now my process is maybe slightly different because of the music mixes. Like, I'll always get them made first. So I'll already find a song that I love that I can flip a little bit, and I'll kind of know, like I said, which section do I want to use, what kind of rhythms I want, um, and then I send it off to my guy, and he gives me a little edit, and then I'll go into the studio and I just I just do it.

SPEAKER_01 27:10

Pretend like you're always.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

I don't Do you know what one thing that being on X Factor and those kind of high pressure jobs taught me is that you can't be precious about anything. I'm so not precious about my choreo at all. Which a lot of people are surprised about. My first version is always my last version. Always. I never change anything. So what you learn in a class is what I've probably got. I'm not sitting on a choreo for a week, I'm not going into the studio multiple times. Oh, I don't really like that bit. I don't I'm not doing any of that.

SPEAKER_02 27:36

Yeah, you need to.

SPEAKER_00 27:37

It's at the end of the day, whatever I come out with, it's still my choreo.

SPEAKER_02 27:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:40

So like I tend to not overthink it. It took me years to get to that point, but I don't overthink here. I just do what I do, and people get what they get. That's it. I'm not gonna spend a week thinking about one combo.

SPEAKER_02 27:52

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:54

And I'll lock myself in the studio for two hours max, absolute maximum, most of the time an hour.

SPEAKER_01 28:01

Dash it out, get it out.

SPEAKER_00 28:02

And I just smash it out with my music mix, and that's the combo. That's it.

SPEAKER_01 28:05

Love it. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

If there's any parts that I absolutely despise and I'm like, that's just tragically bad, then obviously I'm gonna change it. But like, most of the time I'm like, yeah, okay, it's fine.

SPEAKER_01 28:15

Yeah, I think when you have such a it's not like one, two, three, four, five, six. No, it's it got it doesn't get like complacent like that because it's a new fresh mix, yeah, a new thing every time.

SPEAKER_00 28:24

Yeah, and it's so on the music that I'm kind of working with the music the whole time.

SPEAKER_01 28:28

Yes. Music is so important with the music. Yeah, oh yeah, 100% podcast is a good idea.

SPEAKER_00 28:33

Especially the way I do it now. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:34

Yeah. What a tune.

SPEAKER_00 28:37

What a banger.

SPEAKER_01 28:37

Out of all the Britney ones as well. Oh, I feel like you could pick any Britney one and it would be like a so good.

SPEAKER_00 28:47

Especially that like prime Britney.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

Era, she said, yeah. And then we said Britney should do an era's tour because the coming. She should if she can get it together. Oh no, but she's a bit uh lost in the wild at the moment, isn't she?

SPEAKER_00 29:00

I know she's literally one of my dream artists. We either perform for, choreograph for, whatever, but it's looking less and less likely by the day, innit? Keep your fingers crossed. Just get behind, put on a wig, he knows all the choreo. Well, I mean, she basically is the product of him.

SPEAKER_01 29:13

So yeah, literally. What would you say? Bit of a rogue question here, but about niching down to you, I'm gonna be a commercial dancer, that is it, and being versatile. I feel like this has come up quite a lot in what I've been talking about recently, and it's like two different sides, and I don't want to hear your opinion. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:30

Well, I would hope that everyone said the same thing that I'm about to say. Go on. Um, you can't just be a one-trip pony anymore. Cool. You have to be versatile, it's not a choice anymore. Um, because we're in a world now where a commercial job is not just what we see commercial as. Commercial, yeah. A commercial job. Commercial dance is not even a style anyway. But that's for another day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's for another day.

SPEAKER_01 29:52

We won't go there right now.

SPEAKER_00 29:53

But commercial dance, you could be doing contemporary on a commercial job, you could be doing ballet on a commercial job. That's what people don't realise. Yeah. Commercial's not just females dancing sexy in heels, or like, you know, men being topless. Like, that's just not what it is at all. I mean, it never has been, but I feel like people have a really distinct image of what they think a commercial job is, and it's just so not that. So even going back to 2010 when I booked X Factor, we were doing jazz, we were doing contemporary, we were doing hip-hop. It was still a commercial job.

SPEAKER_01 30:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:22

You know, so if I hadn't have had that basic understanding from Dolphin, from Lipper, about like basic technique and all that kind of stuff, I would have been awful.

SPEAKER_02 30:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

Because Brian's a technician, like he expects you to be able to do a clean double at absolute minimum and not fall out of it or not fall over. Yeah. You know, he expects you to have clean lines, he expects you to understand placement. And if you've only ever focused on one thing, how are you supposed to know what that is?

SPEAKER_02 30:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 30:48

You know? So I think you're giving yourself the best chance of a successful career if you can do a bit of everything.

SPEAKER_01 30:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:55

And you don't have to be an expert. You don't have to be an expert in in anything, to be honest. It's better to be good at everything than amazing at one thing.

SPEAKER_01 31:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:03

That's what I think.

SPEAKER_01 31:07

Right, Josh, we're gonna get into your dancing shoes now. This is put on your dancing shoes. Quickfire rounds. Oh no, I'm no I'm so bad at quick fire. It's gonna go well, isn't it? We've only got six, we've only got six, right? I'm intrigued, ready. Music video or live tour?

SPEAKER_00 31:22

Live tour.

SPEAKER_01 31:23

Pre-planning choreo or creating in the studio?

SPEAKER_00 31:26

Creating in the studio.

SPEAKER_01 31:27

Um, clean and synchronized or individual character.

SPEAKER_00 31:31

Clean and synchronized.

SPEAKER_01 31:32

You were gonna say that. Standout colours or all black.

SPEAKER_00 31:36

All black. Look at me. Look at me.

SPEAKER_01 31:39

Pre-show adrenaline or post-show high.

SPEAKER_00 31:43

Ooh. Post show high.

SPEAKER_01 31:46

Dancing with an artist or teaching phase.

SPEAKER_00 31:49

That's so rude.

SPEAKER_01 31:53

It's your last one.

SPEAKER_00 31:56

I can't answer that, I'm afraid.

SPEAKER_01 31:58

It's fine, I'll let you off. That was a mean one. Right, very last question. If your life was a dance movie, what would the title be?

SPEAKER_00 32:04

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 32:04

You can have a minute to think. That one doesn't have to be quite as quick, fighting.

SPEAKER_00 32:08

If my life was a dance movie, what would the title be? Um, it would be what do I always say in classes?

SPEAKER_01 32:18

Yes, that's it. Quite a lot.

SPEAKER_00 32:19

I think it would be called clean and strong.

SPEAKER_01 32:21

Nice, nice. Love this. Right, let's unpack live toy said. Yeah, with the music, the live versions, bam, bam, big.

SPEAKER_00 32:28

It just makes me feel different.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

Yeah. 100%. Creating in the studio. We already talked about that bit. Clean and synchronized. You are, we've had so many people say clean machine. That is literally what you are, getting it all bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. Yeah. I like that nickname. Yeah, clean machine. Love it. That's gonna be the tag on the all right episode.

SPEAKER_00 32:46

Yeah, please.

SPEAKER_01 32:46

Um, all black.

SPEAKER_00 32:48

All black.

SPEAKER_01 32:48

All black all the time.

SPEAKER_00 32:49

I'm all black all day. Anyway. I can't remember the last time I bought colour.

SPEAKER_01 32:53

Do people at phase? We will get on to talk about phase. Is that all black? Is that like your yeah. It's all black. Just clean.

SPEAKER_00 32:59

It's in the rules, it's in the terms and conditions.

SPEAKER_01 33:02

They have to wear all black.

SPEAKER_00 33:03

Yeah, yeah. Um but there's a reason for that.

SPEAKER_01 33:05

Oh, go on.

SPEAKER_00 33:06

Because in most professional rehearsals, it's all black.

SPEAKER_01 33:08

It's all black, so it's just black black.

SPEAKER_00 33:10

So it's kind of subconsciously already teaching them that.

SPEAKER_03 33:14

Go for it.

SPEAKER_00 33:15

I'm just not. I'm I'm probably different to maybe other guests you've had, but I just don't like people wearing multicolors in the studio. Like, it's just not my vibe. Like, it just it's too much for my eyes.

SPEAKER_01 33:26

Like too much to say.

SPEAKER_00 33:27

Because a lot of my choreo is unison friendly, and I like people to dance as a group. I appreciate the individuality thing, but for me, my stuff looks better like en masse as an ensemble. And if I've got 75 colours on the colour spectrum, it just instantly looks messy.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

If everyone's in black, yeah, I see what you mean.

SPEAKER_00 33:45

It's given like army vibes, yeah. And I'm so into that.

SPEAKER_01 33:48

It's your style, it's your brand. That's it.

SPEAKER_00 33:50

It just works for me.

SPEAKER_01 33:51

Um, this one was like, ooh, pre-show adrenaline or post-show high. I was proud of that question. Well done.

SPEAKER_00 33:57

I mean, I can't lie, even now, like I would still get nervous before going on stage 100%, even though I've done it a million times.

SPEAKER_01 34:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:04

I think the moment you lose that feeling, it's probably time to pack it up and pack it in.

SPEAKER_01 34:09

Interesting. Nice.

SPEAKER_00 34:10

Because I think adrenaline or nerves shows that you still care. You still if you don't get nervous and you're just like, oh yeah, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 34:17

That to me, that it's time to be complacent and blah, blah, blah. It's time to give it up. Oh, yeah, nice. And dancing with an artist or teaching phase. I'm sorry, I just had to had to slip that. That was really mean. That was me. I'm sorry about that. We'll just brush past that while we're talking about that.

SPEAKER_00 34:30

Only because they are two very different experiences. Very true. Very different.

SPEAKER_01 34:34

And you like them better.

SPEAKER_00 34:35

So you can't actually compare. Like, oh, do you prefer wearing pink, or do you prefer wearing black? Like, that's an easy one. You know what I mean? Like there's it's really hard to compare dancing with an artist versus versus teaching, even.

SPEAKER_01 34:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:48

Like performing and teaching are so different.

SPEAKER_01 34:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:50

And they both give different things.

SPEAKER_01 34:51

So good answer. Not to get deep about it, but no, that's a good answer. I love that. Right, next session. Don't be moody, shake your booty. We're gonna do a little highlight reel and a little blooper reel here of your life, dancing life. Let's start with the bloopers. Are there any moments where you thought, this ain't for me? This is not for me.

unknown 35:13

Oof.

SPEAKER_01 35:15

Not to put down. It's something we can learn from.

SPEAKER_00 35:18

There's not a moment where I thought, this isn't for me, I'm gonna pack it in. But there's definitely been stuff that's happened where I've been like, oh fuck, why did that happen to me? Yeah. Like, um I've got like two things. So the first thing was on X Factor. We were doing, I think it was Halloween week and we were doing Thriller. And we were in this tight group doing like original thriller choreo. Everyone, everyone goes down and I'm left up because I forgot the move. So, like, literally everyone's down and I'm stood up, and then I go down and we all come back up together. And I literally came off stage and I wanted to cry because it's live telly. It used to be like 12 to 14 million viewers every week. Wild. And I was like, oh my god, why me? But you know, when you watch it back, I mean you can see it, but no one would ever know. It's not that it always feels so much worse than it is, yeah. Unless it really is that bad, but it wasn't, and I kind of knew it wasn't, but I didn't fall over, you didn't nothing. Still had a bit of a meltdown. Um and then my second one was I did a gig for Alexandra Burke. Um remember her? What a throwback?

SPEAKER_01 36:17

Yes, no, I do remember her.

SPEAKER_00 36:18

And it was after Michael Jackson had died, his family had put on a like a memorial concert in Cardiff in the Millennium Stadium, which is like 80,000 seats. It was crazy. Huge. But they'd invited loads of guest performers, so Alex was one of them. They'd invited like Christine Aguilera, JLS, there was loads of people, and they were all singing Michael Jackson songs. Oh anyway, long story short, Alex had hired Jaquel Knight to come over, who is Beyonce's choreographer or was Beyonce's choreographer. He choreographed single ladies, all that kind of stuff. Iconic. And I'd never worked with him before. And um, he came over, we did this whole performance. Uh, we on our song was Scream, Michael Jackson and Jan Jackson Scream. Wow. So I was like, wow, this is iconic. And we did like the famous dance break with the knee slide and everything, and we get there and we go on stage, and none of our in-ears are working. And there was like a 16-piece live band who were all members of Michael Jackson's band over the years. Um they're playing, but what's coming out of the monitors is delayed by a couple of seconds to what they're playing. Then you're getting the delay from the back of the stadium. Yeah, nothing in our ears. So we're all dancing to three different versions of the music. It was an absolute disaster, and thank God there's no video footage anywhere of it. Oh, none. I've never been able to find a video of it. So, I mean, that's like a thing that went wrong that wasn't really a me thing, but it was it was difficult. Wow, yeah. And we'd rehearse for two weeks every day for that performance.

SPEAKER_01 37:44

And to have it every day. Want to do it so well as well because of such like a thing.

SPEAKER_00 37:49

It was such an iconic performance, yeah, and it was huge. Yeah, it just went so wrong.

SPEAKER_01 37:54

Just trying to look at each other.

SPEAKER_00 37:56

So wrong, yeah, it was awful. I was just seeing cannons everywhere, and there wasn't even one cannon.

SPEAKER_01 38:00

Yeah, it was it was meant to be. It was it was really bad. Oh my gosh. Well, at least it was only a couple of things.

SPEAKER_00 38:06

Yeah, and it wasn't just me, like we were all drowning together. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, the whole ship was going down and I was just on board.

SPEAKER_01 38:12

Alex just started saying another.

SPEAKER_00 38:14

She was just singing, and we were just like, it is what it is. It is what it is.

SPEAKER_01 38:18

There we go, what can you do? And thing like that. I know. Um, what is the peak of your career? I mean, you've got about 20 million because you've just mentioned about 50 things that I could be like peak, peak, peak, peak. But what for you is like what is the peak?

SPEAKER_00 38:31

That is a great question.

SPEAKER_01 38:32

A real highlight that you're like, I could do that over and over again. Or you can't believe you actually did that.

SPEAKER_00 38:41

I can just in a way like, oh my god, there's so many. Like I don't even mean it like that, but there actually is just so many, like for different reasons, you know. Like I don't know, like I I know I've wrote Sabrina Carpenter down here, but that's because I I've not performed in like almost eight years. Um the last the last performance I did before Sabrina Carpenter was Pink at the Brit Awards, right? And that was in 2017 or 18.

SPEAKER_01 39:08

Oh my gosh, yes, we're loving it.

SPEAKER_00 39:09

And I thought that was like oh my god, this is like I'm dancing for pink, like that is crazy. And that was amazing, and I loved every second of it. And then what we're like seven, eight years down the line.

SPEAKER_01 39:21

Did you know that was gonna be your last one?

SPEAKER_00 39:23

No, no, because I don't think I ever have and even still now, like, I don't see myself as a retired dancer, yeah, or just as a choreographer. Like, I'm still a dancer, I'm still a performer. I just my energy and my focus is elsewhere. Um does it feel a lot different now? Yes, of course it does. Um but then I got a message saying, Are you free first of being a carpenter at the Brits? And I was like, Love it.

SPEAKER_01 39:48

The outfits are love, of course I'm free.

SPEAKER_00 39:51

And you know, a lot of my friends were on the job, and it was the first time I've been on stage in eight years, and it just felt nice. Like it felt like I was kind of second guessing myself, thinking like I've been I've not been on stage for so long. Can I even still do it? What's it even like to be in a rehearsal as a dancer anymore? I don't know. Yeah, um different, different back on. I loved every second of it.

SPEAKER_01 40:10

Oh yay, espresso again. It's just uh everything's just iconic performances, pop bops, so good. Monthly up there with the little Yeah, with the little hats on. Well, they weren't little and they were heavy and they were big. Were they really heavy?

SPEAKER_00 40:29

But yeah, they that that's they were my peaks as a dancer for sure, as a choreographer. I got to choreographer Kelly Rowland from Destiny's Child.

SPEAKER_01 40:36

Is it true on her Destiny's Child? Which is just mind-blowing to me.

SPEAKER_00 40:41

I couldn't believe it. Every day I was going into rehearsals, I couldn't believe it.

SPEAKER_01 40:43

Oh my gosh. How did you get to the choreographer side? Was it the connections you'd made in the dancing world, or were you, like Alex said, she feels like she was starting again, like in the choreographing side? I would agree with that.

SPEAKER_00 40:55

It definitely feels like starting again for sure. Um what I realized is just because you are a successful dancer doesn't mean that people take you seriously as a choreographer. You know, it's two very different job roles and it requires two very different skill sets. And not everyone, just because you're a good dancer doesn't mean that you're equipped to be a choreographer, you know. Um, yeah, exactly. But you know, making connections as a dancer definitely does help because it gave me the tools to be able to reach out and say, look, this is what I want to do. Can I assist you? Can I shadow you? And it it came, it had to build from a lot of assisting, a lot of being an associate, all that kind of stuff. Yeah. Um until eventually, you know, someone says, Do you want to do this as a choreographer? Or I for the first couple, it was, I'm not free for this. Do you want to do it? And I'm okay with that. Yeah. I'm absolutely fine with that. Yep, I'm definitely them shit. And now, you know, it's it's a bit different.

SPEAKER_01 41:42

So now you're getting your own work.

SPEAKER_00 41:44

You gotta start somewhere. It definitely does feel like starting again for sure.

SPEAKER_01 41:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:47

It felt like starting a whole new career. Yeah. Because it's people don't realise how different it is. Like choreographer, teacher, dancer, all very different things. All very different concepts. And I think a lot of people don't realise that.

SPEAKER_02 42:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:00

They think because you're a good dancer, you must be a good teacher. Yeah, yeah. And that I can tell you firsthand it does not work like that.

SPEAKER_01 42:07

Yes, 100%. Um, what made you switch from the performing side to that? Was there anything that you thought, oh, now's time? Was it something you always wanted to do? Did you slip into it? And let's bring phase into here starting that and to go into a different, different hat.

SPEAKER_00 42:24

Yeah. Um choreography just fan kind of felt like the natural progression for me. I've always choreographed since I was a teenager. So, and I think going back to my mum and dad having a dance school, I would teach for them, I would run my own classes there. So I've and I would choreograph for like I had my own little crew that we go to competitions like Yu-Gi-Oh and stuff. Yeah. So I've always been interested in the creative side of it. Um, and that just kind of grew as I was dancing as well. And then once I started actually getting some credits under my belt, I was teaching a lot of workshops and creating choreograph for that and all that kind of stuff. So yeah, it just felt like the next step for me. Um, I knew I wasn't going to be able to dance forever, unfortunately, as much as I would have loved to. I know. So it and you know, some people are really not interested in choreography, they couldn't think of anything worse, but for me, I'm like, I'm still super interested in it.

SPEAKER_02 43:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:09

And then, you know, hopefully eventually, touch wood, creative direction will be the next step on the ladder.

SPEAKER_02 43:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:15

Um, and yeah, it just felt like a natural progression. And then once I started doing more of that, I was like, right, the jobs are not every week. The jobs are not that consistent as a choreographer. Um they can be, but then you're always gonna have you down and your quiet period. So I was like, I need something that's gonna keep me going in between. That was always teaching for me. So I was like, what can I do? What can I offer? And I came up with phase and originally which again, probably not many people know, it was originally a six week program for twelve to sixteen year olds. That's what phase was, that's what it originally started as and I started it in 2017. So it's almost ten ten years old next year.

SPEAKER_01 43:55

Oh my gosh, originally.

SPEAKER_00 43:56

Um and it's been many different formats along the years. And I just I've trialed and tested and adapted and made it work. And then, you know, most most recently it was phase industry program where I would bring in industry guests basically. So I'd bring in choreographers from the industry, not just like teachers, not just people who teach classes, but people that actually are booking people on jobs. And then I'd bring agencies in and we'd do a mock audition and then we'd do like a like a mock rehearsal. So I was trying to give people a real insight into what the industry is like. Yeah. As close to replicating what it's like as I could. And that worked. It was amazing. I absolutely loved it. I've I've probably done over 40 programs. I have no idea how many.

SPEAKER_02 44:36

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 44:37

And then I was like, I was looking round and I was like, there's so many programs now. There's so many programs, there's so many intensive, so many people are doing the same thing. I was like, I need to do something different. This is always what I do. This is how my brain works. I'm like, when something's run its course, I'm like, let's move on. Yeah. I'm not gonna try and you know drag it on or whatever. So I was like, I need to do something. Everyone used to ask me for more consistent stuff. And obviously, over the years, I always had a weekly open class. I always had a weekly open class in London and a weekly open class in Liverpool. And I stopped that quite a few years ago because I was just like, it's too much. It's too much. So then I was thinking, I really want to create something where if people do want to train with me, which not everyone will, but for those that do, I want them to have to come to a specific place to train with me. So that's where I came up with the training company. Yeah. And essentially it's uh it's a monthly training company where I have my members, um, and we just train hard.

SPEAKER_02 45:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:37

And that's it. And it's kind, you know, I've kind of morphed the industry program and the training company into one. Like I still overything I teach and everything I try and pass on is always from an industry perspective because that's what I've done in my career. So everything, everything that I say, I've lived. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 45:55

Which is amazing insight for them, especially it's like bridging that gap you said as well between they know whatever I say, I've done.

SPEAKER_00 46:03

Yes, you know, I've experienced it, so I can say, please don't do that, or you should definitely do this. Yeah. And I'm not saying that, you know, my advice is always right for everyone, but it's from my experience. So yeah, so I started the company in 2024 um with 30 dancers, and now I have I don't even nearly 180 dancers, I think.

SPEAKER_01 46:27

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 46:28

Across Liverpool and London. Liverpool and London, yeah, both the same. And I have multiple different groups. So that's amazing! Yeah, it's going really well.

SPEAKER_02 46:34

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:35

And like and like I said, I'm never like I'm never satisfied, but I'm like, sometimes I do, I see them all in the room training, like sweating and like laughing, and I'm just like, wow. I've built this. This is crazy. Yeah. This is literally came from my brain cells, which not a lot comes from. So at least I'm okay at something.

SPEAKER_01 46:53

There we go, give yourself credit.

SPEAKER_00 46:56

Well, I yeah, I had a moment last year. I I set up an event called Phase the Pop-Up, uh, which is just like a one-day event, and I flew Miguel Zarate in from LA.

SPEAKER_01 47:05

I love him, one of my faves ever.

SPEAKER_00 47:07

I'm obsessed, and he's a good friend of mine as well. So I was like, let me fly him in.

SPEAKER_01 47:11

Get him on the pod. Joking, get him on the pod. Please, please. Him and Janelle, Janelle Gunestra is my favourite dancer.

SPEAKER_00 47:16

It would be a five-hour episode because he would not stop talking.

SPEAKER_01 47:18

Love it.

SPEAKER_00 47:19

Um I flew him over and I put on a private session with all of my company members the night before the event, just as like a thank you to them for being part of the company. Um, and I was just looking, and there was like over a hundred dancers in the room, and they were all just working so hard, and I was like, wow. Wow, like this is I've created this.

SPEAKER_01 47:38

This is your legacy.

SPEAKER_00 47:39

Yeah, like it's it's yeah, it's still. I don't often like stop and be like, Whoa, well done. Give myself a little pat on the back. I know, I know, I know. And everyone, I'm just so hard on myself. I'm such a perfectionist in everything I do that I always see the negative in everything before I see the positive.

SPEAKER_01 47:55

Um well, hopefully, you're gonna listen to this back, you're gonna hear yourself mention all these things and be like, oh, hopefully.

SPEAKER_00 48:01

I know. Do you know? Even just talking about it now, even going back to like X Factor and talking about everything, like just feels like someone else's life. This is yours. It feels like I'm talking about someone that I know.

SPEAKER_01 48:12

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:13

It doesn't feel like it's me.

SPEAKER_01 48:14

Well, it's you, you've just got to be. I know, it's it's mad.

SPEAKER_00 48:16

It's honestly it's crazy to me.

SPEAKER_01 48:17

It's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 48:18

Even to this day, I still think it's crazy. I never ever imagined or even dreamed that I would have the career that I've had ever. Ever.

SPEAKER_02 48:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:26

I always knew that I had the drive to do something. Yeah. And there was never a backup plan, there was never a plan B ever. It was like, I'm either gonna do this or who knows what I'm gonna do.

SPEAKER_02 48:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:36

But I don't know, I just don't think like I was saying, even seeing people like Brian and stuff, it always feels so far, so far removed from your life.

SPEAKER_01 48:43

How am I actually there?

SPEAKER_00 48:44

And in that he is literally a friend, which is just insane. Like, this is someone you're talking about that I used to watch on telly, yeah, and be like, it always feels so out of reach when you're watching something and he was dancing for Britney, he was choreographing for Britney, and I would sit at home and watch like Slate for You, for example. Yeah, that feels so far removed from where I was in my life, yeah. And now I'm literally sitting having dinner with him. That is cool. And like he's met my son, like he held my son when he was a baby. Like, he's like an actual friend, yeah, you know, because I've worked with him for 16 years, so yeah, yeah, so it's it's um and you know, as a dancer, and then I assisted him, and then we choreographed the film together, like we've done so much together, and I literally owe my entire career to him. So it's just crazy that I can like text him and say, Do you want to go for dinner? And he's like, Yeah, yeah, let's go for dinner. Oh my god, I know that's insane.

SPEAKER_01 49:32

That is wild.

SPEAKER_00 49:33

It's literally Brian Friedman. Like, what the hell?

SPEAKER_01 49:35

Literally Brian Freeman, Josh. That never gets old. We've got to get the timer out. You've got 60 seconds, it's called the masterclass minute. You've got 60 seconds to give us your best inspiration. Can be anything you want, things you've learned, things that you pass on, things of people coming up in the industry. 60 seconds, ready? Josh's master class minute. Here we go.

SPEAKER_00 49:58

Right. My biggest advice if you want to pursue this as a career is I have two things. You have to see yourself as a business from day one. And if you see yourself as a product, you'll learn how to market yourself as a product. A lot of dancers just think that being a dancer is enough. And I think ultimately we're going into a business where it's so competitive and there is only one of you, and you need to market yourself as that. Does that make sense when I say that? Like, no one can be you, no one can dance like you, no one looks like you, no one talks like you. So use that to your advantage. And I think a lot of people try and morph themselves into what they think people want, where actually they just want you the way you are.

SPEAKER_01 50:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:43

How long do I have left?

SPEAKER_01 50:44

14 seconds, go.

SPEAKER_00 50:46

Don't lose the love for dance because a lot of people fall out of love with dance and you need to remember why you started.

SPEAKER_01 50:52

Yes, very good. Five seconds, but it deserves a clap. That was brilliant. Yes, amazing. Oh my gosh, so good.

SPEAKER_00 50:59

I wanted to expand on the love thing because it's so important.

SPEAKER_01 51:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:02

It's like you don't ever start dancing when you're a child because you want to book a job.

SPEAKER_02 51:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:07

Or you want to get involved with an agency, or you don't do any of that. You dance because it's fun and because you love to dance and it's a form of expression and it's a force of it's a it's a form of letting go and not thinking about anything else for an hour or two hours or whatever it may be.

SPEAKER_01 51:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:23

Why does that change when we become professionals?

SPEAKER_01 51:25

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 51:26

I'm a And I know that kind of feels weird considering I just said you need to treat it as a business, but I love what I do.

SPEAKER_01 51:32

That makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 51:32

Yeah. I like I everything I do is from a business perspective, but I love my job. So for me, business and passion go hand in hand. I know a lot of people that have a job that they don't love, and then every day becomes about like, oh my god, I've got to go to work.

SPEAKER_01 51:46

What's the point? There's no point living.

SPEAKER_00 51:47

Is there days where I wake up and think, oh my god, I've got to dance today? Yeah, of course there is. I'm a human, but I couldn't imagine myself doing anything else in the world. Like, I get to go and meet different people, I get to come and talk into a mic about what I love. Like, I get to go and teach people every single week that love to dance. I get to fly around the world. Like, what is there not to love about what I do? I get to dance on stages in front of thousands of people. Yeah. I get to choreograph for stages in front of thousands of people.

SPEAKER_01 52:12

It's amazing. Like, even just the even just being in studio with the music, that's that's so fun.

SPEAKER_00 52:17

Having the music on, dancing, like it's and going back to what I said, that's why I choreograph the way I choreograph, it's that's what I love to do. That's what I that's the way I love to dance. Why would I go to a choreograph for a class and teach something that I don't love? Yeah. Because I think other people might love it.

SPEAKER_01 52:32

Yes, they'll come to you.

SPEAKER_00 52:33

In all honesty, I don't care what anyone else likes. Like if I would hope that if you're coming to my class, it's because you love what I do.

SPEAKER_02 52:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:39

Not because you love what you think you want me to do. Yeah. You know? Like and I'm only saying that from experience because there was a time where I would choreograph to songs that I didn't like because I thought people would like them. And I just didn't love what I was doing.

SPEAKER_01 52:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:53

I didn't love the work.

SPEAKER_01 52:54

I think it's easy to get caught up in that.

SPEAKER_00 52:58

And someone told me once, well, it was Brian. Not everyone is gonna love what you do, and you're never gonna be everyone's cup of tea, and that's totally fine. Because the more you try and morph yourself into what you think one person wants, you're getting further away from you. Yeah. You know, like you've just said you don't like hot drinks. I love hot drinks. I literally live on coffee. That's just a matter of opinion.

SPEAKER_01 53:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:20

Like, choreography is the same. You might love my class, someone else might not love it.

SPEAKER_01 53:24

Yeah, that's okay. It's not for them, they'll forget it.

SPEAKER_00 53:26

But it doesn't matter what I change, they're still not gonna like my class.

SPEAKER_01 53:28

Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, so do you.

SPEAKER_00 53:30

You've got to just do you and do it with your whole chest, and people will either buy into it or they won't.

SPEAKER_01 53:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 53:37

And that's okay.

SPEAKER_01 53:38

I love that, and that's okay. That's fine.

SPEAKER_00 53:40

I'm fine either way.

SPEAKER_01 53:41

Oh, I love that. And a quick song, sports car tape McCray.

SPEAKER_00 53:45

Tune.

SPEAKER_01 53:46

Come back with the pop.

SPEAKER_00 53:47

Tune. Bring Pop Star back.

SPEAKER_01 53:49

Yes, please, with the full choreo.

SPEAKER_00 53:51

She is the one to carry the flag at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 53:54

Yeah, definitely. 100% with all the time.

SPEAKER_00 53:56

She's on my choreography list for sure.

SPEAKER_01 53:58

That was gonna be my last question. Anyone else you'd like to work with? You've already mentioned Britney, Tate McCrae, let's put it in the universe. Yeah, Tate McCray for sure.

SPEAKER_00 54:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah, honestly. Um Tay McCrae, yeah, just because she's such a dancey artist, like she can dance as well. She can dance like a dancer, which is a dream as a choreographer. Um, J-Lo's always been up there in at the top of the top of the podium for me. A new song was a banger.

unknown 54:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:24

Yeah, I would I would dance or choreograph for her. I'm honestly not bothered. Um, yeah, I will do anything for anyone. Anything. It doesn't, I don't care. I'm not picky. Any artist that wants to work with me, let's go. Any like, you know, any shows or it doesn't, I don't care. Yeah. I've choreographed for jobs that I would never think that I would even like I just did movement direction for Squid Game, the challenge on Netflix. Fun.

SPEAKER_01 54:48

Not something that you would think of.

SPEAKER_00 54:49

Never. People probably don't even know this movement director.

SPEAKER_01 54:52

Yeah. And it's me?

unknown 54:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:53

And you probably sat at home watching on Netflix.

SPEAKER_01 54:55

That's fun.

SPEAKER_00 54:56

Like, I get to do so many cool things that are not necessarily always just about the dance steps, you know? Yes. And that's what I love, is that it like my life is so different every day. Every day. It's so different. And I couldn't imagine it any other way.

SPEAKER_01 55:10

Yeah. Amazing. Oh, Josh, you've been incredible. Where can we find you? Give us your socials.

SPEAKER_00 55:15

You can find me on Instagram at Josh Warnby, W-H-A-R-M-B-Y. Uh, and also follow my training company at FaZe Training Company.

SPEAKER_01 55:24

Amazing. We'll pop all the links below.

SPEAKER_00 55:25

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 55:26

We'll pop that photo on Instagram so you can see.

SPEAKER_00 55:29

Oh my god, please. I've not seen that body since I was 18.

SPEAKER_01 55:34

Oh, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 55:35

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 55:39

Thank you so much for listening and a massive, massive thank you to Josh. I just feel like I could go dancing right now. I want to be in one of Josh's classes to one of those live mixes right now. That has inspired me so much. So I hope it has done the same to you. What a career, you guys! And I hope you can see little stepping stones, little bits of nuggets of uh information of how to get to where Josh is today. And yeah, just what a career and what an amazing guy. Thank you so much for listening as always, and keep an eye out for more and more episodes coming soon. See you next time.