JAMES CUTLER - DWTS, Strictly Come Dancing and traditional ballroom!

Our first Ballroom and Latin professional! James is here to let us in on some Dancing with the Stars secrets, inspire us all to go to a dance studio and we discuss how saying 'yes' can lead to many opportunities!

James' insta: https://www.instagram.com/cutlerjm/?hl=en

AURA dance studios: https://www.instagram.com/auradancestudios/?hl=en

James on Strictly Come Dancing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfErjdF482w

James' foxtrot in Blackpool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ps-NSiJMpI

James and Miss Angel's American Smooth: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DIJq0BrtrtX/?hl=en

Thankyou for listening!

Find all the songs mentioned in our spotify playlists!

https://open.spotify.com/user/31t7e7ibcbntq6ziwbonzbra7ape?si=L0XQuZlnTYq8_ybkvlliaQ

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dancetothispodcast/?hl=en

Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@dancetothispod

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hi everyone, welcome back to Dance to this, the podcast with me, Zoe Francesca, the podcast where you can find great songs to dance to. This week it's just me, Minnie Chess, and our amazing guest, James Cutler. I mean, let me give you a quick rundown before we do the foundation files. Professional Borman Latin dancer, our first boring Latin dancer on the podcast, performer choreographer, coach, commentator, dancing with the stars, professional, former British, Danish, Canadian champion, world finalist, North American show dance champion. I mean, the list goes on toured with Burn the Floor, Strictly Professional UK Tours, Annabelle Croft, the commentator, interviewer for DSI TV, all the major competitions. I could keep going and you will hear a lot more about his life in the episode. But first of all, foundation files. This week, guys, this is has revolutionized my gigging life. This is a makeup bag. If you're just listening and not watching, it's a round makeup bag with a little Velcro flap, and then it's like a drawstring. That's what it is. A drawstring bag. Basically, you can open it out as far as you can. It goes all the way flat. That's how it arrives. Um, fill it with your makeup, and then everything is just there. I've used this for years. I can't even remember what it's like before this. Um, everything's there, use it all, and then this is the best bit to put it away. You just do up the drawstring back, and then you're good to go. It is that easy. So this has saved so much time doing gigs, not having to like pat things away, put that in there, trying to fit it all in. I literally, boom, do the drawstring and take it away. It is so, so, so good. Um, I will link it below, as always, and I highly recommend if you one want to save time, two, if you're like me and not that organized and have things everywhere. Like I get everything out to do my makeup when we're at gigs, and then it's everywhere. So it's just so easy to chuck it all in this bag and literally pick it up and go, is that quick? So I definitely 100% recommend this makeup bag. Uh, but let's jump into the episode with James. Ah, I hope you enjoy, hope you feel inspired, and it's getting us ready for the strictly, which we'll have to talk about when Jess is back because all of the celebrities have started being released, everyone, which is really early, but very, very exciting. But enjoy the episode with James.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

Welcome, James, to the podcast.

SPEAKER_02 2:45

Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Thanks for coming on a boiling day.

SPEAKER_02 2:48

It's yeah, it's a sauna in here in the caravan, isn't it? It's nice. Sorry. If we're glistening, it's just that natural uh glow.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

Yes, the nice glow, definitely. Tell everyone what you do in the industry right now.

SPEAKER_02 2:59

I mean, I do a lot of random things in the industry. I'm lucky I'm touring at the moment with a show called Jukebox Idols. Um, I'm a teacher, so I teach Bohemian Latin at my studio in Birmingham that co-own with my family. I have a dance app that I'm building, so I'm trying to put that out there. Um, I do the commentary for all of the major competitions in the UK. So whenever you see Blackpool, United Kingdom, International, you'll hear my voice saying random stuff over the top of the commentary. Uh choreographer as well, so I've got my finger in a few different um choreography jobs at the moment. So just basically try and give as much as I can, as many different little facets.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

I love what you said. Fingers in all the dance files.

SPEAKER_02 3:36

Fingers in the dance files, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

Everywhere. Amazing. So let's go take it from the top all the way back to where you started dancing. You mentioned your family studio. Yes. Was that already going when you were born?

SPEAKER_02 3:47

Yeah, my parents had a studio in Birmingham in Soly Hall since I don't know, the 80s, I guess. So I was born into a studio, dragged along all the time after school, uh, didn't want to dance, honestly. So I was never uh kind of a I really want to do this sort of thing.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

No way.

SPEAKER_02 4:02

Um, and actually, it's quite a funny story how I started dancing because my mum was always trying to coax me into dancing. My dad didn't mind, he was like, Oh, you do football, you can do whatever you want. And my sister was dancing with a boy, and he had a little sister. So the my sister's dance partner's sister, I had a bit of a crush on. I was about eight, nine. And uh my mum basically manipulated it and she was like, Well, if I can make you dance with her, will you start dancing? And of course, I was like, Yes, you can. So, yeah, I started dancing purely because I had a little crush on this girl. Um and then, yeah, I mean, we stopped dancing together after about a year because she wasn't interested, but then I got the bug and never escaped.

SPEAKER_00 4:41

And then, oh, so that was boring Latin showing, that's what it is.

SPEAKER_02 4:44

Yeah, through and through from my first steps on the dance floor.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

All the way from day dark. Oh my gosh. Yeah, because one of my questions was any other styles that you've done since Borum and Latin, obviously now, but then then when you were younger.

SPEAKER_02 4:54

So I think uh my upbringing until I was, I'd say 16, 17 was purely boring Latin. And then I started to subsidize it with a bit of ballet um just because I thought I needed the postural training and the basic fundamentals.

SPEAKER_00 5:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:07

So I did a good five years worth of ballet, but I mean that was fun because I turned up at this ballet school with the teacher and I went to a beginner's class because I was like, I don't have a clue what I'm doing, I'm not flexible, I I don't have the ability to do any of this. And um, it was actually the teacher that my mum used to go to. Oh, so she kind of wired it up so uh, because my mum was a professional dancer as well, but originally ballet and then went into bore room at it.

SPEAKER_01 5:32

Oh nice.

SPEAKER_02 5:33

So, yeah, so she wired it up so that I had this lesson with this teacher who said, Oh no, this is ridiculous of you coming to a beginner's class. You can't come to beginners class, you can come to my advanced class. So I'm literally, I I remember it so clearly standing at the bar doing all of these like plie exercises and tondus and stuff, and you've got all of these like beautiful ballet dancers just devloppaying all over the place, left, right, and centre, and there's me looking like an elephant at the back of the room. No, um, no, really. Um yeah, and it was just I mean, it was so fun because the the girls like in the class, and there was a couple of boys in this class as well, were all like lovely, really welcoming, but they obviously couldn't help but laugh when we're doing the like the floor stuff, and we do the solos across, and they're all doing leaps and jumps, and it was me just gamboling around.

SPEAKER_00 6:21

It's a different start to what you'd ever done before. Like you're a dancer, but different, like that is very different.

SPEAKER_02 6:25

Um, yeah, that was going in at the deep end, but realistically, all I wanted to take from I never wanted to be a ballet dancer. All I wanted to take from it was the principles of posture and yeah, like understanding turnout and technique. Um, so I learned a lot from it and I stuck with it for yeah, like I said, four or five years and it really helped. Flexibility didn't get better, but everything else did it help then your boring Latin, just having that feeling or just your dancing in general. What's really weird actually is I never necessarily felt the benefits because it kind of happened slowly, I think. You know, the posture stuff. When you have someone repeatedly telling you to realign your pelvis, do this with your centre, you kind of just listen, do it. And I think that change happened to me slowly. But when I teach now and I can see a kid that's got no fundamentals, then you know they might be talented, but they're they're not standing in the right way, they're not aligned in the right way, and you then apply the principles that I remember from ballet, you see how almost instantaneously it can change. Um I think ultimately, yes, it helped my dancing, but I feel it's helped even more my teaching.

SPEAKER_00 7:33

Nice. Oh, interesting, very interesting. Did you do it? So that was your like extracurricular, shall we say, dance? Did you do it at school, uni? Because we've had a lot of people on here who have gone through that route, but being a professional dancer, Latin dancer, sorry, it's a it's a different route into that. Tell us about your beginnings into that.

SPEAKER_02 7:52

I mean, I kept a balance all the way through. So I mean, I was lucky obviously because my parents had a studio. When I came home from school, I was doing my training at home, well, in the studio. Um, so my day-to-day at school, no, I was at a normal school, I was uh kind of very well educated, I did civil instructional engineering at university.

SPEAKER_03 8:10

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 8:11

So I went down a very normal academic route. It was like I had two separate lives, and I would just study during the day, finish school, go to the studio, practice for four hours or so. Um yeah, and it was only really when I left university that I really invested my whole life into it. I moved to Canada for five years to dance with a Canadian girl, and that was when kind of results really went high. So yeah, I would say I was quite balanced, and I was sporty as well at school. I was always uh football, cricket, rugby, hockey, the works. You literally did have two separate laptops then. I did.

SPEAKER_00 8:46

That is crazy, isn't it? That you've still managed to make this amazing career out of something that was an extracurricular because you had your academia at the same time.

SPEAKER_02 8:53

What's even crazier is I think for most of that time I was hiding it as well. Um because obviously now I think it's a lot more socially acceptable for guys to be dancing. Um, but you know, there's this stigma and this uh unfortunate association with like your sexuality and dancing that now is a lot clearer and a lot easier for kids growing up dancing, but in my generation I would kind of hid it. Um so until I was 16, I don't think anybody, anybody knew. No way. Um so I was literally had this, and the it's mate shows my age now. There was no Facebook or Instagram or anything, so it's not like stuff was being put out. So it was actually relatively simple. Um, I mean, I I do remember it all came out because I did this thing on BBC News, which was like a strictly themed thing where myself and my dance partner were teaching two of the presenters to dance over the course of a week, and at the end of the week, they then did it, and it was for children in need. And um, yeah, I took the job because it sounded like a really exciting job, not thinking that this was gonna be on BBC News every night. So almost overnight it went from nobody knowing to everybody knowing. Oh and I was I remember I was terrified to go into school, the backlash. I was like, because I was worried, you know, yeah, again, people would start labelling and just making assumptions. Yeah, it's just I remember sitting in a lesson and a kid actually started giving it a bit, saying, like, oh, you're a little dancer, are you? This sort of thing. And another kid who I wasn't even close with just stood up and he went, Wait, you're questioning his sexuality based on him dancing when he's dancing with these beautiful girls day in, day out, and you're playing rugby and grabbing who knows what it is. Make it make sense. Yeah, yeah, and these kids, and I I just you know, you sat down and I went, thank you. And and realistically, I'm very lucky that's the closest I ever got to having any issues. That's really good. I bet that was crazy going into school that next day and being like, I remember getting on the bus on the way into school thinking, what am I walking into? Like, what's it gonna be?

SPEAKER_00 10:56

Was this from your close friends as well?

SPEAKER_02 10:58

Um, or did a couple of them know and two or three of my closest friends knew um because obviously I couldn't hide it from them. So yeah, my very, very close circle of friends already knew. So I just kind of like surrounded myself with them, hoping, but yeah, never had any issues.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

Oh, and then it was out, and you just thought that was you, boring Latin. Yeah, I love that. So your song for this Reach Es Club 7, do we need to play it really? But we will do it. Oh, tell us about this song. Was this just an early memory that you used to dance to?

SPEAKER_02 11:30

Yeah, it's an early memory because for me, it's not necessarily the first memory or something, but it's one of the strongest memories I have of growing up dancing. Uh, Blackpool Tower, um, which is, you know, we all call it the Mecca, it's iconic for Boreman Latin, it's where it really found its feet in the UK. Uh, I did a team match one year when I was about 10, 11, and the team match was, you know, the UK, and it wasn't the Blackpool Dance Festival team match, it was another one. I've luckily enough I've participated in the Blackpool Dance Festival team match as well. But this was just a private event that someone had organised, and they were filming it, and it came to the jive, and I remember they had to do four or five takes because for some reason the music kept cutting or there was something wrong. And the jive that they were using was Reach. Um, and you know what? I think it was actually no, they started playing Reach, and all the crowd started going, Reach for the stars like this, joining in. And they decided that they thought it would be really good to get it on camera, so then they were like, Oh, we're just gonna run that again. Oh, we're just gonna run that again. So I have this just memory of dancing at Blackpool Tower, which is an amazing venue to dance at anyway, because the ballroom's beautiful, it has a proper sprung floor, so especially dancing Jive on it, you bounce twice as high.

SPEAKER_00 12:44

Amazing.

SPEAKER_02 12:45

Um, yeah, and I just remember that, and I was dancing with a a partner called Love and Hunt at the time. We must have been 10. And just yeah, reach for the stars over and over.

SPEAKER_00 12:54

Let's bring back that memory now.

SPEAKER_02 12:56

Here we go. I'm gonna channel back.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

Oh, can you beat it? Well, you can't, and actually we're gonna jump.

SPEAKER_02 13:05

I'm so good with that as well. Uh I'm gonna sound a bit like musical geeky now. Go for it. Um, so the musical accents in a jive should be on the downbeat on even numbers one, two, a three, a four, a five, a six. And I love people pushing forward and trying to use modern music. Uh you need to, you need to keep things current, else it just feels like it dies in the sixties. You know, Bournemouth Latin's not the most modern of dance disciplines. But then you go a track like that, and I know that's not modern anymore, but it's a very obvious downbeat on the even numbers. So you get one, two, a three, a four, five, which really makes you dance in the right place.

SPEAKER_00 13:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:40

Whereas so many tracks that people try to use as jive now are not, they have the downbeat on one, um, which kind of is one of those that makes you go like this, like you're sucking on a sour sweet. Yeah. So cheat as it is, it's actually a fantastic jive. Perfect.

SPEAKER_00 13:58

The turning point. So this is where you decided to make it your career. Was that an easy decision? Did it happen naturally, or were you like, I'm gonna push for this after Unilite said?

SPEAKER_02 14:09

Um, yeah, I think it was when I finished university and I I had that decision to make, and actually it it overlapped. So my my dance career started to take off in terms of results and what I was achieving before I'd finished university. So I was already torn. Um, and I remember I got a deferral from my university basically to kind of take a year out, and it was at that point I was thinking, I'm either gonna have to commit to this dancing or commit to civil and structural engineering. Um yeah, and I just I love dancing, I can't imagine not dancing. Yeah. So I think when it when it really came down, if I if ever I sat down and went, right, I need to make this decision, I think it was actually quite an easy decision.

SPEAKER_00 14:53

Yeah. What was the foot foot in the door to get you into that world? I suppose you you were immersed in that world anyway, because of the dance studio and things like that, but to actually make it into that career for anyone who's wanting to do it, what's the like first little step to do?

SPEAKER_02 15:09

I mean, the the first step to get into the Bournemouth Latin world is just turn up at a studio. Everyone has to start as a beginner, everybody. Um and whether or not you're lucky to start as a beginner when you're four, so it becomes second nature, or whether you have to start as a beginner when you're 30. Everyone starts from the same place. Um and some people I I don't like the word talent, but I don't I've always disliked it because I think it suggests that some people have an advantage in a field over someone else before they've even started, and that doesn't make sense to me. I think we've all equal stepping into something. The one thing that I feel does affect you is your natural coordination. Um, and it's not that some people are more coordinated and some people are less coordinated, but I do find that we all have different coordination. Some people are what I call cross-body, so they'll always refer their left arm to their right foot, how we walk, right? Some people tend to be same-side. Uh like you'll see it. I did CCF like Cadet Force when I was like a teenager. Even people marching, trying to march, some people will instinctively walk normal, what I call normal, which is left to right.

SPEAKER_03 16:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:15

And then other people will what they call tic-tac, which is where you go right, same. Same arm, same left. Um, and it's just the way we're wired, it's our nervous system and how it's wired through our body. So if you're wired in the right way, you will feel that some of the coordinations are easier. Um, but you can rewire yourself, you can teach yourself the coordinations that that work. Um, and the the difference is obviously if you start young, you're learning those coordinations before your body's really settled and found what it knows. Whereas when you're 30-odd, you're very familiar with the way your body works and you want to stay working in the same way. So, yeah, to I mean to get your foot in the door, turn up. Um there are uh better studios and worse studios. Um, so I would suggest do your research. Um, and I mean that with respect to everyone in the industry, because even lesser uh experienced teachers have got something to offer, and if they're getting people onto a dance floor dancing, great, yeah, yeah, keep it going. But if you want to take it seriously and have a competitive and performance career, it's important that you go to a coach or a teacher that's got that experience. Um because you can't guide someone through this industry unless you've lived it yourself. Unless you've done it, yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, I'd say that for the competitive side.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

Um, so did you have a partner all the way from when you were tiny and you just went from partner to partner? How does that work for someone who hasn't seen it?

SPEAKER_02 17:38

In the boring and Latin world, you're blessed because there's far fewer boys than girls. So when you go to look for a partner and you put an advert out saying, I'm looking for a partner, as a boy, you get 10, 20 girls messaging you saying, I want to be your partner. For a girl, it's the opposite, you're having to chase. Um so yeah, I think as a boy, and it's still a case actually, you know, we have our kids' classes at the studio, and we get for every one boy, we get five girls, and it's just the nature of it. That's the way it is, yeah. I think it it is changing a little bit, but I I do also think that there's a inherent instinct for boys to run around the fields and maybe I don't know. Um, so yeah, it would be nice to balance that up, but it's the the nature of our industry, I think.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

So, did you go to Canada specifically for a partner at that point? That was for a partner, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:29

So I was you know very successful through my kind of under-12s, under 16, under-21 career as British champion kind of multiple times. So um but it was very domestic, my results. So I was doing very well domestically, internationally. I mean, under 12s I did well, but under-16s kind of top 24, so good, but not what you wanted to push for, yeah. Um so I got the opportunity to dance with a girl who was very highly ranked internationally, um, and that was kind of the driving factor. I was like, I want to dance with you. Yeah, so upped moved to Canada five years later. Yeah, yeah. Oh my god, we made the world's final um at Disney in our second year together. So that must have been incredible. That was a highlight, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

Oh wow. Well, let's go on to the song. I don't know whether this song is that highlight, but this song, yeah, I'll explain if you can. Okay, let's play a little bit of it. Sunshine of your love, cream.

SPEAKER_02 19:25

So good. So reasoning behind this actually is where my career took a very strong turn because I was going up through that competitive world, and that seems to be the only route for a lot of Bournemouth-Latin dancers. They kind of start and they think, I want to be world champion, and that was my goal. Um, and then I started to become disillusioned with the competitive world. Um, there's a lot of politics that goes on, you need to take a lot of lessons, there's a lot of money that goes into it, and I just I was starting to maybe fall out of love for dancing, and that's quite scary feeling, especially when you've invested your life in it. Um so then I got the opportunity to dance for Burn the Floor, the touring company. And the reason why that attract means so much actually is quite funny because I was hired because they didn't have many high-level ballroom dancers, they had a lot of very good Latin dancers, but not so many ballroom, and they wanted to get better level ballroom couples onto Burn the Floor. And the problem with Burn is that you need both, you need borroom and Latin, and most of the borroom dancers that they could find useless at Latin because it's very different feeling. And I had a very good background in Latin, so when I kind of was there and it was they're approaching me, I was going, Well, I'm great at Borroom and I'm solid at Latin as well, so I think it was kind of that what they were looking for. So they hired me to do the Borroom track, and the first job that I got with Burn the Floor, so when they they cast the show, obviously they have to cast it based on people's skills, they actually put me into a track on Burn the Floor, which is known as Sunshine. Um, and the reason it's called Sunshine is because you're so each couple has a solo to a piece of music in the show just to kind of spread it out amongst everyone. So my solo was to sunshine, which is actually a chocha. So I'm dancing, I'm meant to be dancing the ballroom track, but I was doing my solo to this, and it was the moment that I was like on stage at the front, being kind of one of the main characters. Yeah, um, yeah, so and it was where I kind of realized actually, I kind of enjoy this being on stage, being in the public eye sort of thing. So yeah, that's why I've put that down as a big turning point. Yeah, that is so nice.

SPEAKER_00 21:40

That is a great turning point because it's just another avenue. It's still in the world of dance, it's still in the Borom and Latin world, and it's just that it's nice that it gave you something else. Gave you a bit of a buzz back again.

SPEAKER_02 21:49

Yeah, exactly. It definitely gave me a buzz. Um, and everything kind of snowballed from that, from where I am now, having done you know TV in a few different countries, dancing with the stars. Um Yes.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

Yes. How did that come about?

SPEAKER_02 22:02

Oof. Um so the first one was Belgium. Well, my first TV thing with any of these shows was actually strictly doing um some of the extra stuff. Uh so when you're part of the ensemble for the Blackpool special and musicals, um, and that just came as a phone call, uh, as an email. I was touring with not touring, I was on one of the ships with Burn the Floor at the time. Um, and I just got an email saying, Are you available next week to do the ensemble stuff for um I think it was the Blackpool special?

SPEAKER_01 22:30

It's like, yep, yes, tell me where to be, what time.

SPEAKER_02 22:34

Um so yeah, I took that job. Um that snowballed into me. Obviously, I knew a lot of the strictly cast anyway from competing and just being inside the dance industry, but that then uh led into me touring with Geo. Um so then I got the invitation to tour with Giovanni, and then I picked up tour after tour after tour after that, kind of just rolling through them. And then I just remember actually I was working uh so James Jordan, one of the original Strictly guys, uh, he's currently touring with a show called Legends of the Dance Floor, um, which is five of the original cast of Strictly touring together. I mean, it's it's a great show, such a good idea.

SPEAKER_00 23:13

Brendan was one of my faves in the day, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:15

Good old Brendan. You've got Brendan, Pasha, Ian, Vincent, James. Great fast, a great group. Um, yeah, so I got asked to assist the choreography on that, so I helped to kind of uh form that show, which was the first foray into choreography that I did. Um, and I became quite good friends with James Jordan, and he was in Panto over Christmas down south somewhere, and he invited me to go and watch his panto. So I remember I was just sat in the audience watching James as Prince Charming in Panto, which was hilarious. Um yeah, and I got I had a call from a Belgian phone number, and I'm looking, I was like, you know, when you're like in the theatre and you're like, was that me? It's like what is this? And I'm trying to mute it, and then I get a message, hi, this is the producers of Dancing with the Stars, Belgium. Um, are you available for a call? It's like in the interval, like hello! Literally, so in the interval, I go outside and speaking they're like, Yeah, we're we're really looking for for professional dancers, we followed your career, we think you'd be great on the show. Would you be interested? I'm like, yes, yes, great. I've never um yeah, so I literally took that job whilst I was sat in this um theatre watching James Jordan in Panther. Oh, that's amazing. Yeah, and then that snowballed into Ireland. So I ended up going from Belgium to Ireland, did that last season, my first season in Ireland, which was really fun.

SPEAKER_03 24:30

Amazing.

SPEAKER_02 24:30

Yeah, so for me, I'm very lucky. It's just it's like one job has seemed to follow the next.

SPEAKER_00 24:36

Yeah, well, when you're putting yourself out there and you're doing it and you're like you say, you're meeting these people and just keeping your fingers in all these pads, like that's all opportunities come around, you've just got to grab them.

SPEAKER_02 24:44

Uh yeah, and you say, for me, say yes. So, for example, like you know, the turning point, that sunshine of your love, it could have been very easy for me to go, I'm not comfortable leading a Latin track, I want to do ballroom. But I just kind of went, nah, fine, I'll do it. And then Giovanni's, I hadn't really toured land tours much. Um, and but the opportunity came to four-month tours, a long time. Just said, yep, great, I'll take it. And so I always will say yes to opportunities inside the dance world. Um, you know, you you want to help other people, but you also want to kind of further your own career, and you never know what's gonna come from saying yes.

SPEAKER_00 25:19

You never know. Next section. I like to move it, move it.

SPEAKER_02 25:25

That was actually my ringtone for such a long time, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:28

How dancer of you. That is so dancer of you.

SPEAKER_02 25:31

I know.

SPEAKER_00 25:31

Right, we're gonna go with the song first of all. Listeners, you've got to guess if you can think what James's favourite style is. Yeah, it's dark to the bell's gonna ring, tingling, tingling. Oh, it's lovely. I would probably embarrass myself by guessing. Viennese walls. Perfect. There you go. Viennese walls. Oh, amazing. Has that been your favourite through or a newfound?

SPEAKER_02 25:59

You know what? It's it's more uh the style of ballroom dancing, and I think the most epic ballroom dance, the one that we all know as like classic ballroom, is Viennese Walsh. Um, and it was also my Nan's favourite track. Oh she used to love uh Dean Martin and that's more. So it was always yeah, her favourite track. I and whenever it came on, they use it in competitions a lot. Um, yeah, and also the funny thing with Viennese Walsh, a lot of competitions you only ever dance the Viennese in the semi-final and the final. Oh, so you'll go through all the qualifying rounds and you don't dance Viennese. So it's an honour and it's a privilege to actually get to dance Viennese Walsh at a boring competition because it means that you've made the top 12 or the top six. And actually the world's final that we made the first time we made the world's final was Viennese Walsh. Um yeah, so I don't know, the the Viennese Walsh, it's a simple dance, but it's it's very special.

SPEAKER_00 26:53

Oh, with these Latin competitions and boring competitions that you're talking about, talk us through a little bit of the layout of that. Do you know the song? Do you pick your song?

SPEAKER_02 27:02

Do you Yeah, so that's always an interesting point because every single other dance style that I'm aware of, at least, you know the track. You you prepare your own music most of the time. So you turn up for a competition and you're like, this is my track, I'm gonna dance to this. Because musical expression is a big part of dancing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah, in the boring and Latin world, we have no idea. You walk on the floor, you know the order of the dances, you know you're gonna get cha-cha, samba, rumba, pasado, job, wallstang, pots, vini's, quickspap, or however they do it, but you don't know the piece of music.

SPEAKER_00 27:32

Never at any stage. Never at any stage.

SPEAKER_02 27:34

So when you stand there and the piece of music starts playing, that that's your first hearing of it. That's crazy. I mean, obviously, you practice two of the same music that they use at comps often. So, like, you'll go, Oh, I know this song, oh, I know this song. Yeah. You don't, you don't actually know the playlist.

SPEAKER_00 27:49

Do you know what's crazy about that? So we've had Sophie who's done a uh who came on the podcast, who's done a lot of hip-hop stuff, and it's similar, but only when you get into like the advanced ages where you don't know the song. But it's mostly solos and like the group pieces, you know the songs. But to do it as a duet with a partner with not knowing the music, yeah, that is such a skill.

SPEAKER_02 28:07

And you're on a floor with you know 20 odd other couples at the same time who are with that piece of music. So we have a thing in our industry called floorcraft, um, which I don't think is a big thing in any other dance style, which is basically the art of being able to manipulate your routine and your steps around other people who are also moving at the same time. Um, I just whenever my friends have come and watched comps, they that's the thing that they can't comprehend. They're like, how are you not all crashing into each other? Um but it's something you learn from a juvenile, you know, you take a few elbows to the head and you you realize, oh, I'm gonna move out of the way of that person.

SPEAKER_00 28:40

Oh my gosh, especially as well, being a male, you're leading most of the time. And do you have to have well, you probably have to have your brain in lots of different things, you're you where you're going and also leading a partner, yeah, and like doing the steps.

SPEAKER_02 28:53

Yeah, I think wow. There's a certain level, uh I don't know if everyone does this, but for me certainly, I've had a very good upbringing in the Borham Latin world where I my fundamentals are very strong, I believe, especially in the kind of basic Borham in Latin. And you can almost recognise the figure that someone's gonna go into based on how they set. So you can you can look at them and go, okay, they're about to go into a fall away, they're about to go into a tumble turn, and as a result, you know roughly where they're gonna move, so you can then manipulate to get out their way. Wow. Um, I think there's a lot of dances that are similar, and then there's maybe a few that aren't, and they maybe crash a bit more frequently. Um yeah, that's how I would do it.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

Yeah, experience and getting and doing that a lot. What are your thoughts on training equally in Latin and boring?

SPEAKER_02 29:41

You know what? It's gonna make me sound old. In my day and in the generations before, the techniques were actually quite similar between boring and Latin, and most couples did tend dance, which is to do both boring and Latin. Um so you were on a level playing field with everybody when you walked on the floor, everyone's a ten dancer. Now you have kids starting to specialise from from outside of juvenile, you know, they'll be 13, 12, 13 already focusing on one discipline. And as much as the purist in me and the traditionalist in me says stick with both because it uh it's good to have that round knowledge. And honestly, if you want to go into say the performing part of things, you need that so you'd be mad to throw away side a side of it. If you ever intend to be on stage or television, uh keep going as long as you can with both. But if your focus is in the competitive world, and I I almost hate to say it, but specialise early, really specialise early, like because you're investing twice as much time in one discipline, and it's the way I see it is you know at the Olympics when you have the pentathlon or something, and you've got these amazing athletes competing over five events. Uh you would take their hundred meter time and they're never gonna win the hundred metres because they're not specializing in that discipline, and it's the same with 10 dance. So, yeah, I think that's where you need to choose what your goal is. If it's if it's performance, keep both, if it's competitive, yeah, get your drinkers on.

SPEAKER_00 31:11

Yeah, great advice, really great advice. Um, what is it like teaching all the different styles on dancing with the stars? Teaching them to in such a quick time, one week for a style, and you go.

SPEAKER_02 31:25

I mean, it is very dependent on who you get. Um, I've been lucky to have kind of a mix of partners, I guess. I guess I call it lucky. Um, so I've had a very, very fast partner who picks things up very quickly and almost gets bored with the repetition of it. And then I've had a partner who, on like on the blocking day on the morning of the show, still can't remember the routine.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

So much fun though. I watched a few videos, so much fun, like the joy.

SPEAKER_02 31:52

Yeah, I mean, uh, but and then you have to know what your goal is. Yeah. So, you know, your goal might be look, if we can get through the choreography without messing it up, success. If it's someone who's maybe really quick, it's no, you you've got to have good technique, you've got to have good action. Um, we want to tell a story with this. Uh, so I I think I'm lucky I started teaching when I was about 16. Um, because I was brought up in a studio and my parents had a lot of work, they started basically making me partner some of the solo girls at the studio, and that was my teaching was just to basically dance with these girls for 45 minutes.

SPEAKER_00 32:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:26

Um, and through that, now I've mean I've taught wedding couples, I've taught like beginners, I've taught British champions, I've taught every demographic there is. I feel like, you know, put me in a studio with someone, like I know. You're gonna teach them to dance.

SPEAKER_00 32:41

Yeah, yeah. Oh, such good skills learning that from that must be so fun doing the different styles. Oh, it is. Do you just you don't have to give too much away, but how far in advance do you know what styles you're going to get? Or is it uh you're keeping your fingers crossed, like, please give me that style this week kind of situation.

SPEAKER_02 32:57

Yeah, of course you're hoping for styles that you know will suit your partner. Um no, the general format is they will give you your music choice. So they the producers will tell you, okay, you're gonna be dancing to this piece of music next week. Um, and you get that normally on the Monday of the week before. So you're whilst you're teaching your celeb for the weekend, you're already building for the next weekend and you have it kind of in the bank ready. And I know there are cases where you know your celeb's very fast, you might just dip a toe in the water and sneak in a little bit just to give them a bit of a taste of this is coming.

SPEAKER_03 33:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:33

Um if your partner's not quite so switched on, the last thing you want to do is confuse them with the big thing. Exactly. So so you're you're then working week to week. But yeah, I'd say a week in advance you you have an idea and a concept of what you're gonna get, but it can change. Um so you know, you might build, but then someone gets knocked out and then they've suddenly got five boring tracks and two Latin tracks, they go, Oh, we need you to switch and do a Latin track.

SPEAKER_03 33:57

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 33:57

So yeah, you can you can jump the gun too early, but so it's a risk to maybe start.

SPEAKER_00 34:04

Did you enjoy doing dance with the stuff? Oh, I love it. Do you enjoy it?

SPEAKER_02 34:07

I yeah, I absolutely love it. It's uh challenging, and again, it's it's but it's bringing together for me everything I love about dancing. You know, it's teaching someone from the very beginning, it's watching someone fall in love with dancing. Oh, that must be the nicest. Because yeah, it is, and I find anyone, anyone, like you know, when you're there and you're dealing with your celebrity, you have a very close relationship with them, but you see the rest of the cast and you see everyone, you know, taking steps forwards and enjoying it, and I'm yet to see someone that doesn't enjoy the process. That is so nice. It it's something so special, just moving with music with a person. Yeah, it's nothing like it. So, yes, watching someone discover that that's what I love.

SPEAKER_00 34:49

And probably their family and all their friends and getting on board with it. It's like everyone's just loving dancing like that.

SPEAKER_02 34:54

Yeah, because you know, their families come into the studio, their friends come into the studio to watch the live shows, and they've never experienced anything like it, and it's just a whirlwind. It's just yeah, it's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 35:06

Now we're going to put on your dancing shoes. So it's a short, quick fire question. Oh, this is okay, you can't do that. Where we're going to get yes, no pre-warning. Right, ready. Here we go. First answer that comes to your head. Performing on TV or performing in a theatre?

SPEAKER_02 35:22

TV.

SPEAKER_00 35:23

Dancing with the stars professional group number or couple's routine?

SPEAKER_02 35:28

Couple's routine.

SPEAKER_00 35:30

Judges' comments or waiting for results. What's better or worse? What's what do you what would you rather do?

SPEAKER_02 35:38

I prefer listening to the judges' comments. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:40

Yep, yep, yep. Um, tail coat or see-through shirt.

SPEAKER_02 35:44

Straight in a tail so commenting or interviewing.

SPEAKER_00 35:48

Commentating, sorry, or interviewing.

SPEAKER_02 35:50

Ooh. Interviewing.

SPEAKER_00 35:54

Interviewing. And the big one, borroom or Latin. Borroom. We knew that. And one more question. If your life was a dance movie, what would the title be? You can have a minute, that doesn't have to be quite as fast.

SPEAKER_02 36:07

Is that the title of a movie that's out there at the moment?

SPEAKER_00 36:09

No, a movie about your life. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 36:15

Something to do with constant change. Oh, yeah, constant change.

SPEAKER_00 36:19

Constant change. Keeping it interesting. Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_02 36:23

Just mixing it all up.

SPEAKER_00 36:24

Yes, let's unpack these a little bit. Performing on TV, you went. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:28

So that's your newfound love, or I like the development of my knowledge. Um, and it's the latest skill that I'm having to learn. Um, and it's interesting because obviously you're trying to please an audience at home. So you have a very focused front of your choreography. You know that's our target because there's a red light above the camera, so you're you're go at that. Um, but then you have to take into account you've got judges in the room who are watching the whole package, and you've got the audience in the room watching the whole package. Yes. Um, so you're having to balance setting it for the television and setting it for the judges, and it's also your own choreography exclusively, you know. You take responsibility for what you put on that floor and what people react to. So, yeah, that's why I think.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

Yeah, great one. A lot of um what's the word, satisfaction from doing that. Um, professional group number couple routine. I can't remember what you said. I said couple group.

SPEAKER_02 37:21

Um, because yeah, the couple routine because I like taking responsibility for it. Yeah, and if you you know you understand the wardrobing and the lighting, you can start making requests of can we change that? Can we wear this? Can we wear that? So you can really take control of your little projects that you put out there. Of course, you have the input from the producers, they're working on the lighting, the visuals, they they do a great job, and they obviously recommend clothing, which 10 times out of 10 honestly is on the money. The outfits alone just does amazing. But it's it's just nice to feel that you have your that this is my thing.

SPEAKER_00 37:56

Yeah, that is so nice. Uh, judge's comments, I can see that. Yeah, I want feedback. Getting the feedback and improving.

SPEAKER_02 38:03

Again, with advice, we we pass that part, but you have to take criticism. You it's the way you get better. You know, it's lovely to hear how good you are. That's always nice, isn't it? But what does that do for you? You don't change anything after being told you're good. You just keep going the same. Yeah. Whereas if you're told that's bad, you go, okay, I'll fix it. So, yeah, any critique is good. So when you have a face telling you fix that, you fix it. With the audience, it's blind, it's just they like you, they don't like you, and you don't know why.

SPEAKER_00 38:31

Um, yes, so that yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 38:33

Judges critique.

SPEAKER_00 38:34

Tail suit and borroom, hand in hand.

SPEAKER_02 38:37

Yeah, call me Fred Esther. Call me Fred Esther. I that just clap beautiful boring. And it, you know, it upsets me on say strictly when you don't necessarily see that much authentic boring now. Um I just I've craving that to see that. It's a beautiful dance style and it's not represented well in the public eye or well enough in the public eye.

SPEAKER_00 39:00

Yeah, maybe how it used to.

SPEAKER_02 39:01

I feel like it's gone more than it's not. Well, it's they're commercialising it, commercial. Uh modernising, yeah. Of course, that's good. It shows development and it's bringing interest into the Borough and Latin world, great, but they're not seeing the authentic this is ballroom in a beautiful, you know, beautiful venue, beautiful ballroom, uh ball gowns, tail suits, dancing to live music. That's the beauty of it.

SPEAKER_00 39:25

Yeah, yeah. Oh, and last one commentating or interviewing. And you said interviewing after a bit of deliberation.

SPEAKER_02 39:33

So the the interviewing, I love learning about people, and I'm sure you feel the same, you know, when you sit there and you kind of you ask a question, you don't know where they're gonna go. Yeah and they surprise you, and it's always nice. So I love interviewing and learning about people and gaining insight and also pushing them to share their insight that can then benefit others. So I I I love that part of it. Yeah, um, the com the reason why it was hard for me is the commentating is um a passion thing for me because I like sharing knowledge and I like trying to educate the kind of viewers. So when I'm commentating, I feel like I've got a big responsibility to share that knowledge. Yeah, um, and it's also funny because I'm still at the point now where obviously I've gone down the uh production route, the show route, TV route. All of the people competing are my old peers, the people I used to compete against. So when I sit there with a mic in front of me and I'm commentating, I'm having to refer to them by their proper names, but I'm like, oh, they're in the nickname that you've got to do it. And I'm like watching, and I've got stories of when we got drunk after a competition and stuff. So it's just so lovely watching them compete when I know them so well.

SPEAKER_00 40:46

Don't be moody, shake your booty. This is let's do a little bit of a blooper reel and a little bit of a highlight reel. So there must be a blooper from live TV that you can tell us about.

SPEAKER_02 40:57

I mean, so I've got one that I did myself, which was well, I've got so many on stage. I mean, my goodness, I'm glad you didn't ask about stage, but on TV, first live. Um, well, luckily, they pre-record the um pro routines now because they want to give you a chance to then change into your couple's costume to be ready. Um, first live show, first pro routine of um Danceman Styles Belgium. Well, I start on the the deck at the back and and walk down and I wiped out, like like literally feet in the air, head down, like stacked onto the floor. Um, yeah, and the thing funny thing is with that, is like you know that you're gonna then dance the whole three-minute routine, and then at the end they're gonna go, right, retake, like this. So in my head, I was like, and everyone, no one saw it, nobody saw it. Even the producers hadn't seen it. And I went up to one of the producers, I was like, just check that back because you might want to retake it. And they they watched it, and like I mean, the whole cast were crying because like literally my feet were up here, my head was down here. I love that was first everyone. That luckily that never saw the light of day.

SPEAKER_00 42:04

Oh god, yeah, we could you can forget about that one now. Hopefully, come on, give us one from on stage.

SPEAKER_02 42:09

On stage. Um, I mean, I was doing uh with Burn the Floor in Dubai, and I was standing on this table and had to jump off this table. And I mean, I I was okay, I landed fine, but somehow I managed to throw this table about three metres across the stage, and it was a metal table because it needs to be solid because we stand on it, and it made this boom, boom, boom. So then I'm like running across the stage to put it back. Um, the other dancers are dying. Like one of my yeah, one of my close friends was crying laughing for about three minutes whilst we're dancing.

SPEAKER_01 42:42

I was trying to carry it.

SPEAKER_02 42:43

Yeah, yeah, and we're trying to be all serious and we're just like lying.

SPEAKER_01 42:46

Oh my gosh, so that was a that was very good moments, they made moments.

SPEAKER_00 42:50

Yes, that's gone to a highlight. What was your peak of your career so far? What has been?

SPEAKER_02 42:55

Peak of my career so far. I think that one of the pinch me moments was recording the pro um one of the first live that I did. Um, and I think if I remember right, it was Diane and Bobby, their dirty dancing one that they did. Oh lovely. Um, yeah, when they they gave the countdown to go live on that. I remember standing there thinking, this is mad. Like you can't believe this. Um so there was that moment, then there was the first live that I did on Dancing Stars Belgium. That was a very, very special moment. Um competing, I think, was Blackpool final I made and one of the tracks in there. Yes, let's get it. Autumn leaves Empress Orchestra.

SPEAKER_00 43:33

Autumn Leaves. I mean, I don't think I've found the right one here. This might be wrong.

SPEAKER_02 43:38

Let's I mean, I'll try and sing it, but let's find it. Bam banana Empress Orchestra. So this was the first final I ever made at Blackpool in an international competition. So I made obviously domestic, but internationally I'd never made a final. And this was the Foxtrot that was on when we did it. And there's a video somewhere on YouTube actually of me in that final. We'll have to find it and link it below.

SPEAKER_03 44:00

Hello.

SPEAKER_02 44:02

Yep. So I'm doing my preparation step at this point. I wind up. I'm right in front of the stage. Feather step to centre. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:10

Beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 44:11

Yeah, partner's wearing a white dress. All that we had so many um students there like supporting us as well. Oh, yeah. That.

SPEAKER_00 44:20

Oh I like. Oh, and what's the other one? Ordinary people. This is your American Smooth.

SPEAKER_02 44:26

This was American Smooth on Dance of the Stars Belgium with my partner, Miss Angel. Yeah. And we danced to this, and this was like my choreography that I built. And I remember like the story that I wanted to put out there of just a couple having these issues in their relationship and not knowing which way to go and whether to carry on or whether to separate. Um, yeah, and it really went down so well. I think it was the first show, and we got a standing evasion, and one of the judges was crying, and it was just like yeah, just seeing that, seeing that you can evoke that emotion from a piece of dancing.

SPEAKER_00 45:00

Yeah. Do a lot of your routines have a story? Do you start with that? What's your cop? You start with a story and you build with that.

SPEAKER_02 45:07

Sometimes it's easier than others, you know. Like if you get given Phantom of the Opera, you've got the story given. Um, if you get given ordinary people, I mean it's the song is about the difficulties that ordinary people have in their relationship. So that's easy. Sometimes you'll get like la bamba.

SPEAKER_03 45:22

Shalal.

SPEAKER_02 45:23

And you're like, okay, what can I do with this? Um but I find if you have a story, the choreography falls into place very easily. When you try and choreograph for the sake of choreographing, I find that's when it gets lost, and you just end up with a series of steps, it doesn't mean anything. Um, so my choreography order tends to go listen to the music, find a story, look for musical accents that I want to react to so I can show that this is a moment of like a high, this is a low, and then I'll start finding the figures that fit into that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:56

Ah, interesting. I love finding out how people choreograph, it's so interesting to me. Last section. Here we go. Masterclass minutes. Yes. We have got the timer comes out, James. You've got 60 seconds. Literally one minute. You have got to inspire the next generation to go out and dance. No biggie! I'm already bleming sweaty. Sorry, it's so awful. So either someone who's already in the Boroman Latin and they're wanting to push to that next level, or just to get the nation dancing. It's up to you. Ready, one minute starts now. Go.

SPEAKER_02 46:32

So dancing will literally allow you to express yourself, it will allow you to be active, it allows you the interactions with people around you, it allows you to interact with music, it lets you travel around the world. Um, there's so many opportunities, and regardless of which route you go down, whether you go down the competitive route or the performance route, the TV route, there is an abundance of opportunity. Um, and what I also like, and the more I've found my way through the industry, is there's opportunities for everybody, and you don't need to stand on someone to get those opportunities because you know if someone thrives and someone succeeds, it doesn't inhibit you. And I think sometimes people get trapped in that. So if you just remember that if you're good enough and you've worked hard enough, the you'll you know your tree will bear fruit, that's the best thing. Um, and why not take up an activity that keeps you fit, keeps you healthy, keeps you young, lets you listen to all types of music, lets you interact with the kind of other people and dance with people, then do it.

SPEAKER_01 47:34

Yay! I could have kept listening to that, Brother.

SPEAKER_00 47:37

We could do 10 minutes, the masterclass 10 minutes for James. Oh, that was amazing. And your song My Way by Frank Sinatra.

SPEAKER_02 47:47

Oh, you timed that perfectly as well. I mean, this is what you have to do, you do it your way.

SPEAKER_01 47:53

Look at that, it all makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 47:55

It does. It's like we planned it.

SPEAKER_01 47:57

Oh, perfect! Oh, well, thank you, James.

SPEAKER_02 48:03

Oh, okay. Well, Instagram cutler J M. So J M for Mother. Um, Facebook the same. Um, I don't tend to do TikTok. Um that's that generation, I think. Uh-huh. Um, but yeah, like I keep um my story on my Instagram. I keep everything going out that way when I'm up to um we'll link it below, they can check you out. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. I'm gonna go take an ice bath.

SPEAKER_00 48:29

Wow, you guys, thank you so much for listening. Oh, I just well, one, I'm really excited for Strictly to come back on TV. Now we've been talking about Latin and Ballroom. Two, I really want to try some classes and some like ballroom. I just it's something that I have not done at all. Obviously, love Latin, not that I've really done much of that, but ballroom being in hold is something I've never done. And James has inspired me to get to a class and go and do some Latin and ballroom, and just what a fun life. Like, I think what I took away most was doing lots of different things, saying yes to every opportunity and just just going for it. I loved that, guys. Hope you did too. Thank you so much for watching, as usual. We will look forward to just coming back again, and as always, thank you for listening, and we'll see you in the next one.

unknown 49:24

Bye.