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Constant Combat
This veteran-led podcast highlights the experiences of Weapons Company, 2nd Battalion, 4th Marines, starting with their harrowing 2004 deployment to Ramadi; a 9 month combat tour which resulted in the highest casualties in a single deployment - a deployment that most Americans have never heard about. Through candid conversations surrounding these events, the series also explores earlier experiences that shaped the Marines, emphasizing their grit, humor, and humanity while aiming to honor their stories authentically.
Constant Combat
With Gauze and Grit - Rudy Contreras (part 1 of 2)
“Doc” wasn’t just a nickname. It was trust earned under fire in Ramadi. Doc Contreras' story goes from Navy schoolhouse to Ramadi’s streets, where he learns to improvise care, earns a rifle, and covers two mortar platoons through months of daily contact. The story tracks hard lessons in combat medicine, leadership, stress, and how he kept the unit moving.
• joining the Navy and embedding with Marines
• Bridgeport training and earning trust as “Doc”
• deploying via Kuwait and first contact in Ramadi
• improvising tourniquets and chest seals with limited gear
• QRF tempo, April firefights, and evolving tactics
• TBIs, the Warlock jammer, and vehicle vulnerability
• getting a rifle and stepping into the stack
• covering two platoons and managing burnout
• combat stress, stigma, and reintegration
• officer calm, NCO decisions, and platoon styles
• summer heat, cordon and searches, and long gunfights
• lessons for today’s combat care and leadership
If you like what you've heard, this is a multi part episode. Make sure you listen to the rest of the story.
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If you like what you heard, please subscribe on your favorite podcast service or follow our webpage for direct downloads @ https://www.buzzsprout.com/2525088
If you are a member of Weapons Company or someone with a story about Weapons Company 2/4 in 2004, please come tell some stories with us - 20 mins or 20 hours! Help paint the canvas of an archival story for others to know what it was like. Contact us @ RamadiPodcast@gmail.com, or via the podcast website above.
All music used with permission by soundbay: https://www.youtube.com/@soundbay_RFM
Fantastic. So let's introduce yourself. Tell everybody your name, rank, and who you were with in 2004.
SPEAKER_02:Hi, uh Doc Doc Contreras, Rudy Contreras. Uh I was uh part of uh 2nd Battalion, 4th Marines, 5th Marine Regiment, 81 millimeter mortar platoon, rainmaker. Uh so was weapons company. I was the uh line corpsman.
SPEAKER_00:Nice, nice man. So what are some Contreras? Yeah, yeah, yeah. E3. All right, cool.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, E3.
SPEAKER_00:And so going back to that, what uh what are some of your first memories from back in that 2004 deployment? Or even the lead up to it, either one.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I joined the Navy, right? So I had no clue that I was gonna be uh with the Marines. I had done over half my career. I'm still active duty right now, so just under 24 years, but uh over half my career has been with Marines. Uh Second Fourth Marines was my first unit. Uh super apprehensive about what life was gonna be like, uh even from the day to day. I mean, they prepare you as a FMF corpsman, they send you to what used to be called Phil Medical Service School. There's two, just like uh, you know, beautiful MCRD. There's the Paris Island and there's uh West Coast Hollywood Marines, right? Or Hollywood style. Uh I attended at the West Coast, uh, graduated, I think it was in August, and then I was in the unit by August of 2003. Oh, yes, 2003.
SPEAKER_00:I didn't realize you joined. I thought I don't know why that I thought you joined us earlier than that.
SPEAKER_02:No, yeah, because I I guess 24 has come back from the OK deployment. That was uh almost a year long. So a lot of disgruntledness, right? Uh, because you know, I received what we call the the shield, the caduce, right, that the Corpsmen wear on their Marpads. Uh I actually received that the day that uh 1st Marine Division crossed the LOD uh uh from Kuwait into Iraq. So when Bush Jr. uh launched that uh that that's that's the day I was still in school, so I hadn't graduated yet. I wasn't even slated to go with the Marines, it was it was indeterminate to where I was supposed to go. I had uh set of orders that unfortunately I'd lost because of uh just school stuff. Uh I got sent back in school at Field Med. And then uh I was in the air. But uh once once that ground effect had lost had launched, I was like, man, that this is my shot. I want to go. So I ended up going to first Marine Division. I showed up at the where they they like our monitor, but the internal, it's called Division Surgeon's Office. I showed up there and I was like, hey man, who's going who's going back into this the shit? And uh they said, Oh yeah, this unit here, uh they're just getting back from Okinawa. And I was like, okay, well, I don't know what that means, but sure, with I'll I'll go with these guys. So initially I I was I was attached to uh golf company and uh we executed Bridgeport. Uh so I I did mountain warfare training with Bridgeport, got to know some of those cats, which was pretty dope. First filled up, almost died on an eye face. Uh get up here, Marine. I was like, I'm not a fucking marine, help me. I had to move the gradient, and they're just like, get your ass up here. I was like, somebody fucking pull me up. But uh yeah, it was it was very interesting. Super, I didn't know what I was getting to. Get back off of Bridgeport. Uh and uh Doc Ray Brant uh was HM2 at the time, I believe, or HM3. And uh we just clicked, man, and uh he's like, hey man, you you should go to weapons company. Those those guys are the that's where you want to be. I I guess uh the the motto was if you can't truck it, fuck it, right? So uh not as much ground stuff.
SPEAKER_03:Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_02:So I was like, hey, that that sounds more up my my my speed right there. So I ended up uh getting shifted over to uh weapons company, and then uh I believe we did a few other uh field exercises before then, like uh we had did the the uh satellite training or uh that the coin for coin the operations like that. So we did that at the the abandoned Air Force Base.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, the counterinsurgency office was at March Air Force Base, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, but March. So um again, that's what I started to click with the guys. I I really had no clue what was to be expected. All I know is that all I had ever heard was that if you were in the Navy and if you were a corpsman and you're FMF, that once they started calling you Doc, that's when they had respect for you. Other than that, it was like, hey shit back, or hey sailor, or hey squid, get the fuck over there, you know. So yeah, I just hit it running, man. You know, I I I I think I gained a lot of admiration from the guys. Uh I showed them I wasn't gonna quit, you know, uh every every field up exercise or or every every hump we went on, I was there. Uh I think I was always I felt I was always present. Uh but going into uh that's a hundred percent true.
SPEAKER_01:You were a double doc from the beginning. You weren't afraid to throw uh I remember if some of those first uh humps that we went on, you were you were actually almost begging to grab some of the like a bipod or whatever to throw it on your pack to come along. And so yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it was anything to you know just to feel part of that. Uh I mean I came I came up from a pretty I think if you're dumb and enlisted like we all were, right? Like uh you come up from humble beginnings, right? Or the mud, as they say. Uh either when you're enlisted, you're you're dumb and uh enlisted, but uh either you're running to find something or you're running away from something. And I I was 23 when I joined. So by the time I got to the unit, I was already 25. Uh and uh yeah, I just felt that camaraderie, what I had didn't have when I was growing up as a kid, you know, and uh in my mid-20s by then. So uh it really shaped and developed me from thereafter. But uh yeah, being with the guys, I didn't know what to expect. I I thought everybody was gonna be shitting and pissing themselves in in combat, but it was it was the total opposite, man. Everybody was getting it.
SPEAKER_00:So dude, that's pretty good. Well, you said uh you said you felt like or somebody had told you the first when people respect you, they'll start calling you doc. You remember the first time people started calling you doc?
SPEAKER_02:I think it was, and I couldn't tell you it was either in the field, uh Shane, or or uh at March. But I just remember, you know, like Blake had mentioned, and it's like uh, you know, grabbing the bass plate, grabbing the bipods, or even when we had the line set up, you know, shooting the guns, and it was just yeah, it was just a rush, you know, and and that uh I haven't I haven't really felt that since and it kind of became a problem a few years back. I was having a little lull in my career. I was stuck with the the Navy and uh but the Marines were there actually. Second Battalion, Fourth Marine was on the on my ship and were doing a mu workup. And uh yeah, it was just difficult because uh yeah, the the surface guys is what we refer to them, they're just they're on that other level. I mean, the the Marines eat their young, but that's if you can't if you're if you can't thin for yourself, then they'll eat you up. Uh the the surface guys, they just eat everybody up, you know.
SPEAKER_01:I appreciate that. I appreciate that. So you uh mentioned March. Um that would have been when that was like January time frame. Um and then a couple weeks later we get uh we get our orders to head on out. What do you remember of our transition over to uh to over to Rumadi?
SPEAKER_02:Uh C 130. Was it C 130? Yeah, I think it was it C3 C131.
SPEAKER_00:So it's actually a C-141 starlifter is the actual model of that aircraft. Yeah, yeah. They retired those after us.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, they for good reason. Well, I think we we we loaded up February, right? And then we broke down in New Jersey, and we were on the Air Force base. And of course, being with the Marines, we had to do a uh uh a run, a moto run. So that was that was that was fucking nuts in the snow. Uh I'm sure the Air Force really appreciated that. Um but yeah, doing that heading out there, even then, I was already caring for Marines. I had a Marine that I think he had strep throat, and he was uh SIQ, and we kicked him out of the hooch, and he was in his own little room. But I still remember caring for him. Uh I don't I don't remember his name, but yeah, I remember just caring for him and then and doing that, and I was like, man, is this what I'm about to do the whole fucking time? Pretty much, you know, it was pretty much uh a lot of babysitting, and I'm sure I was babysat uh a bit myself, but uh yeah, I remember that it was getting there. Um I didn't when we landed in Kuwait, I was a few weeks there, I believe we were getting set up, and uh it was hot as fuck, of course. And uh I just remember staying in like the army, and I was like, well, it wasn't one of the army, but I realized it was like the National Guard, and like these guys are like these guys have like no fucking discipline, they're just walking around, just bebopping, and you know, all we're all preparing for what the potential could be. Uh one of my fondest memories was on the grinder before we loaded up is our tap gear, like uh how it didn't have any names on it. And I was like, this is this is weird, right? Like, because it was all the digital pattern, yeah. And I was like, they didn't they don't expect us to even come back, like we don't even get a name, and then we were even told not to put our names on things because again, I don't feel the higher-ups kind of understood or knew what was to come. Uh, but I think in the back of their minds they knew they they knew what in retrospect, when I look at it being a senior enlisted leader, uh kind of like what they were preparing us for, right? And a lot I don't think they anticipated even a lot of us even coming back. So that that always kind of stuck in my mind is uh laying all those uh cammings out on the grinder and and spraying them with the permethrin uh for the bugs, uh, and then getting in that C-130 loading up, and then I was fortunate enough to fly into Iraq, and then uh I guess the rest of them had loaded up weapons company and all the other battalion had loaded up and they drove into Iraq. But uh yeah, I just remember my big trunk of medical gear that I had afforded along the way. Uh so that was pretty dope. But yeah, that's that's pretty much what I remember when we were heading in and getting prepared for that.
SPEAKER_01:When we uh we had the we were able to talk to Doc um Bundy, and he had talked about uh that he had to also acquire a lot of uh medical gear prior to jumping over there. Um it sounds like that was your experience too, uh, realizing that what you were getting kitted out for wasn't going to be enough.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and and uh we have this thing called tactical casualty combat care, and that and the first thing is to uh the best preventive medicine is what they say is to uh oppress the enemy fire. Uh when I when I was going through my medical training at Field Medical Service School, uh the tourniquet was the actually the last resort. And uh subsequently what we found out is it's the first thing you do. And uh unfortunately I found out the hard way. Uh it wasn't on Marines, but it was on uh Iraqi casualties. Um but yeah, that that tourniquet, I still remember being so proud because I had made one out of uh that muslin gauze. All you guys like to use them for your headbands and and your face covers and shit. But I was like, that's my bandage, fuckers. But uh yeah, I I remember that having to uh uh uh adapt and and make tourniquets out of these uh uh muslin gauze and uh grenade rings and uh stick. So yeah, that was that was a big thing because again, you know, if you look at the casualties uh that the first string took, it wasn't really it was bad, of course, but it wasn't like what we were doing with the guerrilla fighting, so or the surgeon fighting with the IEDs and uh more of the uh explosive stuff. But uh, but yeah, it was it was that was that was the deal. I hoarded a lot of shit. So yeah, Mike X came to me a lot and we kind of fed off of each other because uh we really didn't have much when we went out there that first time.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah, I still remember being at March Air Force Base and being in like a modified medical class with you, uh, and some of the British guys that were going through stuff, and they started talking about it. Was their medical guy, and they're like, Yeah, you can make a tourniquet out of gauze, and then they were talking about treating a sucking chest wound by using the wrapping paper on a on a bandage and taping it on all sides. And I was like, and you look now at medical gear now, and there's easy pre-made wind lace tourniquets that are way fast to put on. Same thing with sucking chest wound stuff, like it's a literal one one peel and stick seal. Like, it's insane the amount of crap we were like, oh yeah, just rig it together with some duct tape, you'll be fine.
SPEAKER_02:Well, yeah, that duct tape, duck duct tape is definitely your friend as a doc. But yeah, that that's how it was, man. We we we were we were taught to be innovative in that sense. Uh so yeah, what whatever we could devise out of whatever means we had that uh we were we were authorized to use it, so yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Cool, man. And then you said you flew into Iraq? Yep, so we flew in. So you guys flew in probably probably to Al-Assad, or did you I don't I and that's what somebody else said, but I'm not even sure. Yeah. And then how did you get from Al Al-Assad to uh Hurricane Point?
SPEAKER_02:Seven tons. Uh yeah, seven tons. Which which was I mean, they weren't armored when we first got there. I think we all remember that.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Uh and that that's another rem the another reminder of I have is when we departed, like when we left and we drove to Al-Assad, and uh, you know, fighting from a vehicle or fighting from the ground was a different thing. So uh our our uh 0311 brethren, right? Those guys, I I I I commend them on what they had to endure a lot of that uh being the back of a seven-ton, but uh that's one of my my fondest memories was uh actually departing headed to Al-Assad from Hurricane Point, yeah, was uh loading the back of a fucking umbi, and I'm like, oh shit, this is the worst place to be. Yep, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Do you think when you uh when leaving Camp or Camp Victory down in Kuwait, heading up to uh Al-Assad? I can't remember. See, I don't remember did that did that happen in sticks, or did you guys mostly come? Did everybody come up all at once? I don't I don't remember everybody coming into Hurricane Point very well, of like whether it came in waves or if everybody came at once. Do you remember that, Doc?
SPEAKER_02:Well I remember it was sticks, like like it was just sticks of us, you know, and so vehicle commanders, uh, and then drivers, and then gunners, a gunners. So I I would like to say it was the minimally manned for the vehicles for the um movement down there. So I and I wanted to say it took them a little while to get down there. Uh but remember it, or if you recall, it wasn't it wasn't heavily laden with IEDs then. So the the movement was pretty uh minimal with contact. I don't think there was even an ex an engagement uh from them crossing from Kuwait into Iraq. So but yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean we six is what I recall. When we drove up, because I was part of the element that drove up, uh, there was one group out of all of the convoy, one group that got hit, got had an IED go off, and someone got minimally wounded, like fine, didn't really need any significant treatment, wasn't evacued. And then they took, I think, one set of pop shots, and it was like somebody had drove up and like fired out of a window and like drove off, and that was it. Like there was literally nothing.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so and that kind of set the tone, right? Like being there and sitting there and waiting, like I think we were all kind of just waiting for that day. Yeah, you know, uh, we knew we knew something was happening. Like, I I think uh from what I recall is that they didn't even realize that we were Marines because of our Marpat, the digital pattern. I think they thought we were we're like Spaniards or some shit. But uh yeah, because the big the who was already there, remember? So we're fighting on the big red one, they were there, and uh, I just remember showing up to the camp and and you know, in typical good old Marine Corps fashion, like we need area beautification. So they start you know sweeping dirt and fucking setting up rocks, and yeah, the camp that I remember we took up Hurricane Point was just kind of like blasted, right? So even our uh CMUs or the concrete masonry units that we lived in had the the canvas the canvas uh ceilings or roofs on them. Yeah, so I was like, man, what shithole is this? And this is how we're gonna fight.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and that wasn't even where that wasn't even where the National Guard unit that we had relieved was staying. They were staying in the palace. And we put our H and S company in the palace, and then we went in those sheds. So yeah, so I mean that timeline was we crossed at least the the driving part. I don't know when you guys flew up, uh, probably around the same time, but we drove up March 6th. But we didn't wait around too long to find out that it was serious. Um, McPherson was wounded, and he was the jaw, you know, where he had his his jaw blown off. Yeah. Well, I don't know if it was a bike, was it a bicycle? I think you're thinking of that.
SPEAKER_02:I was under the uh I thought McPherson was a bicycle, and the bike went off and uh it did uh rip off the lower half of his jaw.
SPEAKER_00:I truly don't know. We went out way after everything was damn near done and just for support, but didn't do anything. Anyway, that was March 13th. So we were there seven days before before there was a significant wounding and a and a big IED. And then it wasn't long after that that Worth was wounded. It was March 20th that Worth was wounded by the the bike IED and he lost his eye. And so it it all became pretty real pretty fast.
SPEAKER_02:And then we we lost that agent kid too, right? RPG, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Uh Fox Company or Golf Company. Yes, Dang. Dang. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh you guys, you were with Rainmaker, correct?
unknown:Yep.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you guys, you guys were the QRF for that when Dang was killed by the RPG, and that was March 22nd.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and you know, I didn't out of you know being Rainmaker and having responded to just about every tick there was, right? Um I don't remember seeing uh Dang I uh from afar, but uh uh is what I recall. Like I didn't even get to go to the casualty at that point. Um but yeah, that was that was like oh shit, you know, and it was like is it gonna be I think that was uh the most frustrating, like is it gonna be this whole time, just like little pop shots, or we're gonna be able to go and find someone. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I mean, I guess that's a good question then. What was the first casualty that you remember treating?
SPEAKER_02:Uh April. April is when I remember treating my first casualties. I think it was April 6th.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Fourth, fifth?
SPEAKER_00:Fourth or fifth? Yeah, just to give you an idea of the timeline right, it was uh April April 4th was when Morris was wounded by the I or by the RPG, and then he ended up dying on the morning of the 5th. Uh and then technically April 5th is when the the Operation Vigilant Resolve, which didn't have anything to do with us, that was Fallujah, but that was when the Battle of Fallujah kicked off. And then the morning of the 6th was when the battle of technically the first battle of Ramadi started.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so that that one I do remember because we had a coordinated effort with golf company or attempted coordinated effort. Golf had uh cordoned off a section of the of the city, and they started taking heavily, heavy gunfire. And uh there was reports coming in off the good old uh Prick 119 or whatever green gear we had, and it was uh really spotty, right? Uh because of line of sight. So uh well, we were getting fed back, and I just remember being QRF uh and I think I was in uh Trelvic. So we'd come up uh to a casual D. And it I thought it was serious, but it was a kid had just rolled his ankle. I think it's the one that you see on the uh uh Joey or Hersher Joe was on the front cover, and they're like had the Marine walking inside the BAS, and uh he was just rolled ankle. Oh yeah. And uh was kind of I was kind of pissed about that. I was like, this is it, man. Get the fuck up, let's go. But uh yeah, I think that was uh the first casualty I had I'd recognize or remember seeing uh being a marine casualty. Uh after those those days of fighting, there's a few more Marines I had seen, but uh uh my platoon had not sustained any severe casualties. We got sprayed and got hit with RPK uh ambush, but uh the Lance Corporal Savage uh he was able to uh effectively take out that target. But uh yeah, other than that, I I didn't really have a lot of marine casualties other than my one KIA, uh Mr. Savage, uh, but that was until May.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_02:So but yeah, up until that point it was just sporadic guys, you know, a couple thrown-throughs and heat casualties, but uh yeah, a lot more uh Iraqi casualties uh that I had treated.
SPEAKER_00:So well you talked about an ambush. You want to tell that story?
SPEAKER_02:I I just remember we the because I was in the trail Vic, right? So I remember first Vic got lit up, and I just remember peeking over the top and seeing what I guess were tracers or remnants of rounds kind of bounce off his chicken plate and then uh ended up taking out that target. And uh at that time I I was not armed with an M16. I had the beautiful old uh nine millimeter beretta, and everybody else was shooting, and I was like, oh shit. I seen this one guy just running across like a rooftop, and I was like, over there, and I just started shooting, and like, what are you fucking shooting at? I was like, I could see that guy, and uh subsequently uh a Vic comes rolling up, and it was a uh I think it was a civilian vic and uh the the Marines were effective enough to uh spray the vehicle and to disable it, but it just kept going. And I just remember the dude, it was a taxi driver, it had to be a civilian. He just I remember him just still holding on the wheel, just driving by, and I'm looking at his car, just riddled with bullets, and he just kept on driving. I was like, oh shit, what the hell? But uh yeah, it was uh that was that was really odd. That uh uh that that was just that just stuck in my mind. Uh just popping off with that guy who that was on the rooftop. It looked like he was moving, but there was no way I hit that dude.
SPEAKER_00:He was like hundred, hundred yards out, but well, and with those uh those wonderful berettas that are terribly inaccurate at five feet, so uh trying to hit anybody at any distance is almost impossible.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I had it had a nice little trajectory on it, so I mean it maybe maybe maybe it's spooked the guy. So like artillery. Hey that's good, yeah. That it was I I so I did sustain a a number of TBIs, right? During that uh I think my vehicle was hit almost six times, six or eight times close. Um Lieutenant Dobb, I don't know if he if I've seen you guys did the dauber uh on the podcast, but uh yeah, we had the I think the warlocket was that thing and it and it sat next to me. And uh there was one mission we came off and we got hit for like the fifth fucking time. Then he remember just getting off in Hurricane Point, him going over the side of the VIC because it sat next to me, and he just pulled that shit out and he fucking threw it on the ground. It was like fuck this. I was like, okay, it's like yeah, fuck this shit. Yeah, sir. But uh yeah, I forgot about it.
SPEAKER_00:I forgot about those shitty warlock systems. The idea was supposed to be that they were radio jammers, but uh there was we had some hype, at least this again, this was in our platoon when we got one. We had a hypothesis that it set off a few IEDs because there was a there was a few times we drove up and they went off like correct almost at the effective distance of the warlock, and we were like, What the fuck is going on? Why did it go off?
SPEAKER_01:Until you said that I had completely forgotten that, and that's like that was exactly why uh Gunny Cook was like, uh-uh. And he also took it out because we were like, this is just setting them off, right?
SPEAKER_02:Well, because if you think about it, it's throwing out those signals, right? And it's supposed to jam them. But if it was a signal that was meant to actuate it, I mean, there you go. Yeah, I mean it it didn't take much to figure that out. So yeah, I just forgot to remember sitting next to that thing and humming it, and I was like, Oh, and then this this thing right because I mean we yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So but yeah, so my my rec rem remembrance of those first few days of them fighting were pretty intense. And again, remember, I didn't have a rifle, so everywhere I went I had to I had to fall and trace with the Marines, so I really had to excuse me, rely upon them and and their ability to protect me. Um I remember uh KK Corrota, uh he he retired as a staff sergeant. He was here just actually last week. He's got a his son's in Chesapeake, so not too far from me. But he he retired in the in the Carolina, so he drove up here with his wife and his new family to go pick up his son. But uh yeah, we were talking about it. Uh one of my fond remembrances of is was the good old ACOG, the seven power scope, which every Marine gets issued now at the gate, but uh only a few select marksmen uh were supplied with ACOGs. Yeah, and uh I think it was during the sixth or one of those days that uh he was they were taking pretty accurate fire from an alleyway, and uh KK was firing and but it's his his weapon wasn't cycling correctly. So uh I'm sure you all remember Mr. Hodges, right? Uh Reagan. So Reagan walks over to KK and he's like, give me the fucking rifle. And there and these two Marines are fighting for a rifle to shoot the bad guys at the end of this alley. They're like, is this the way I'm gonna die? Are we are we really fucking doing it, Trader? Are we fighting over who's going to shoot the bad guys with the seven power scope? Anyway, Reagan gets over there, he couldn't figure the rifle out. I don't know. KK doesn't recall, but you know, in the in those moments, uh uh, but he ended up cycling through, they end up uh uh uh fucking putting or suppressing the target. But yeah, I was just like, oh my god, these guys, we're fighting over this right now. Like, come on, man. But yeah, a lot of my uh is is jumbled, you know, because of the old TBI TBIs. But uh what I do remember is is those uh first few days of just intense, intense fighting. Some of it was house to house being QRF and having to suppress uh the enemy and move into and into the homes there.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah, were you going into houses?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, I was going into houses. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:I went wherever with your pistol, yeah, with my pistol like this.
SPEAKER_02:Nice. I there was at one point at one time when I still had my pistol where uh uh BC came out with uh good old uh Jim, right? So uh or Sergeant Major Booker. Yeah, and I'm standing there in a VIC and we got hit and uh we were taking sporadic fire, you know, and it wasn't very accurate, right? Uh, but we were about to move into or engage where they were where they were shooting at us from. And uh uh I just remember Jim or uh Sergeant Major walking by me. He's like, Doc, yeah, you can put that pistol away. We got plenty of guns out here. I was like, Oh, okay, Sergeant Major. I'm like, I felt so fucking defeated, man. You know, I felt so defeated that day. But uh I did, I was issued a rifle, Gunnery Sergeant Cook, retired master gunnery sergeant, uh, not Cook, believe my last uh Maraki. Maraki had had had issued me my first rifle, uh, my first M16A2. And uh initially I the guys, you know, Marines always like to fuck with their doc because they love us so much. Uh we were trading out rifles for machine gunners because it was better for them to have a uh a pistol versus a rifle when we didn't have enough. So they came and uh one of the Marines told me, Hey Doc, uh Gunny Maraki wants to see you uh bring your pistol. I'm like, what the fuck? I thought I I thought I was in trouble because of me uh shooting at that, those guys. I I had shot at a couple people, right? But in protection of my Marines, of course. And uh so I thought I was in trouble. I was like, oh fuck, I'm gonna get like charged for war crimes or some shit. And uh know what it was. He was taking my pistol and he's like, he looked up at me, filled the cards out, and he's like, had six magazines laid out, you know, combat load, and then my my uh my five five six and my rifle, and he's like, take it, Doc. And I was like, Me, me, take it. I was like, oh shit, are you gonna fucking take the rifle, Doc? I was like, yes, gonna start and grab that shit and I fucking ran back to the hooch. And uh I was so proud that day. I was like, yeah, no, I'm one of the guys, you know. I I thought I could actually engage, and I did subsequently engage uh a number of targets with that with that beautiful rifle of mine. So but yeah, that was one of my fonder memories uh uh of being there was uh that was like oh shit, there I'm really getting treated, like one of the guys, and then all the other guys got rifles too. I'm like, what the fuck? But yeah, yeah, that was that was the thing.
SPEAKER_00:Well, it was a big command shift in that we were not gonna get combat replacements as fast as we were taking casualties, and there was lots of discussion like, do we merge platoons? Do we then like make you know run with less platoons and then we would just run them ragged? And then it was like, Well, we gotta put more guns on the field. And it's like, well, the docks are getting fucking blown up and shot just the same way. I don't know why we're not, you know, and I don't know whose idea it was, but I do remember when they made the idea, it's probably Meraki's idea, realistically. And we're like, nope, we're just gonna put them in the stack, give them give them a rifle.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I think I think a lot of that was your fault, Shane. I mean, being an NCO and Blake, you know, I think when I say your fault, it's a good thing, right? I mean, you guys recognize that, and that's one of the more appreciable things, and I and I feel that it has stayed with Marine Corps doctrine. Now, mind you, I haven't been with the Marines infantry uh since uh 2016. But uh, and even then I was a senior enlisted, I was staff NCO by then, so I wasn't doing the the the ground grunt stuff. But that that that stayed was that you know, if you want to know battlefield and exercise battlefield prowess prowess, it you're getting that from your young NCO. So you I I feel that you guys helped shape that, like you know, fighting for us and saying, hey man, these guys are in the fucking stack, you know. Uh uh, and there was I went on every mission. I even started taking over missions for um um so I was Rainmaker, and then our other um our other mortar platoon, what his name alludes me. Yeah, Sledgehammer. Sledgehammer, their doc. Uh he he he was uh OIF one vet, right? So he is one of the guys that worked came from 3-5. We actually had a few of them. Brian Hinkle, uh, he tapped and he wasn't going on mission or he wasn't standing guard because you know he had that thousand-yard stare going on. So uh I had to take up a lot of his missions as well. But uh being a part of all that, you know, and seeing all those those those uh those missions, then getting on all those ticks. Uh I mean I fought just with the rest of them.
SPEAKER_01:So you bring uh I appreciate yeah uh bringing up Doc Hinkle. Um something I was gonna ask you that I hadn't ever really fully appreciated until we started having these other conversations is that a lot of the other platoons had two docks. Um and uh because we got split as 81's platoon into two, um we then ran only one dock. And so um talk talk talk about that. Um because that would have put a lot more pressure on you, obviously. You can't be in two places at once.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and it sounds like he had to be in two places at once. Now he's covering two platoons.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, it and you know it it was tough. I actually did have I I wasn't very happy of with Doc Hinkle at the time, right? You know, um, but in retrospect, we've since made amends and I went to his wedding and and all these other great things. He, you know, he's been remarried and uh yeah, but I was upset with him because I'm like, man, this is bullshit. Why am I having a cover down on this guy's you know for the Marines? But at the end of the day, it was they were all you know, one team, one fight is what I really believed in. Uh so it was very difficult. I even took his watch. I was standing watching on the bridge, uh, on the bridges on the Tigers and Euphrates, and those two watches that we would stand there at HP. Uh, but I was pretty upset with his ass for a hot minute. You know, I had uh a lot of animosity towards him, but then again, I just found it in myself that like he was he didn't do it, you know. He had things on his mind, uh, you know. Um so yeah, um, because he had kids at home. And I had kids at home. I had actually just gotten married in September, September 11, 2003. So before we left, I was newly married. I was just at dad. So my kids were at home. Uh and uh that was tough. It was really tough for me to make it through it because again, you know, I was like, why the fuck is this guy not able to pick up his slack? Uh but then I I I thought it because I was a little older, you know, 25, being a little more emotionally intelligent, I guess you could say, uh, and mature. Um but I I I I don't regret any fucking minute of it. Uh I I loved being out there with the guys. I I think even after uh when we were retrograding and we were moved over to the big red one, and they had us in that position to to fly out or to move out to Al Assad. Um they were still getting 2-5 was still getting pretty fucking tore up during the rip process. And uh I even tried to sneak into a vehicle to to leave the base and they kicked me out of the VIC. Like, get the fuck out of here, Doc. You don't need to be here. And I was like, Yes, I do. But uh yeah, it was it was it was tough, but again, you know, it builds grit and resilience. Uh, I don't I don't regret any any moment of that being there for him. And I I think he I think he acknowledged it and readn't and you know, dudes, right? And not so many words, we just looked at each other and it's like, hey man, and I I let him know I was upset with him, but it was it's over. So but yeah, that's good.
SPEAKER_01:Now I appreciate you sharing that um because I had forgotten I I I had a half there was like a couple half memories for me. I was like, I feel like Doc Contreras was out with us a couple times, but it didn't then it didn't then it didn't make sense to me because I was like, Well, but but I had Doc Hinkle. And so uh I appreciate you uh putting putting to bed a couple of these weird memories that I had of you out on a couple of those missions and uh it being very confusing to me.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, I was there. It's weird because like there's a lot of pictures that I should have been in, but I wasn't in because I was always one place or the other, so I was always gone, right? So, or with someone else.
SPEAKER_00:So I'm curious, how long did that last that you were covering both platoons?
SPEAKER_02:Do you remember? I want to see the last two months or so.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's a long time, okay. Yeah, and and you may be able to speak to this more again as medical personnel. Um, you know, there was that that place over on Junction City that was called combat stress control, and we mostly all treated it like a joke. We were like, that's the funny farm room where they let you go in and play with blocks. Now, I don't actually know whatever happened in there, but we used to talk about like you know, if somebody was having issues, there was a handful of guys who had significant what what you know in the World War II you would have called shell shock. And it sounds like maybe maybe I didn't know this about Hinkle. This is I'm just hearing this story for the first time, but it sounds like that's maybe that's what Hinkle had. What was the protocol? Did anybody help him out, or did he just sit and stew in his emotions? I I don't know what what happened.
SPEAKER_02:Well, he's he stayed there. Well, remember, we lost Doc Nabby too. Yes, remember they had for a very different reason, but yes, uh on the bridge, but uh yeah, and and what in retrospect, I I don't know per se what happened with Brian. Uh I just recall him just being moved, and then I I want to see he Blake. I don't remember if he stayed with you guys in the hooch or not after that, but uh maybe he moved to HS and then he was he he stayed with HS for the remainder of the tour. But uh yeah, uh now what I look at now is it, yeah, we kind of we we look at that like uh yeah, the funny form, right? But uh it was we were still in the early days of understanding what we had forgotten from Vietnam and World War II.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah, it was us joking and being assholes, but realistically, like some of these dudes could have used a little bit of treatment and probably could have got right back on the battlefield had they had just somebody to talk to for a minute and process things. And our standard was go talk to the chaplain, which don't get me wrong, for a lot of Marines and a lot of sailors, I imagine talking to the chaplain is very comforting, but for some people it's not gonna help, and they probably need to speak to a mental health professional or at least somebody who understands. So that's weird.
SPEAKER_01:I thought I didn't know where I didn't even know he got separated, but that's uh I I'll be honest, I don't remember I don't now that you're saying it, now there's there's this like a shadow of a memory of all of this, but I mean to your point of it being towards the end of the deployment, at that point the tempo was so intense that I was not really paying attention to the mash like if it if it didn't affect me directly, um not that not having a dock wouldn't affect me, but if if you were covering dock, I would have would have been like, great, let's roll. And so I don't remember um what what exactly happened there.
SPEAKER_02:So yeah, you know, I'd like to see. I mean, he he rebounded, right? I mean, he was able to finish out his Navy career. But I think a lot of that, you know, from the first one and then the second one, he I don't think he ever fully recovered. You know, uh there's actually a few of us that have that are still in. I think Jason Cade Hill, he uh he's still active duty senior chief now. He was uh I want to say Fox Company or golf company. And then uh you guys talked to Doc Bundy. He ended up, I want to say, retiring as a chief. So but yeah, a lot of us, you know, were able to, I guess, find that help and and uh those things. But uh I think sub subsequently Doc just af after that, after Ramadi was was pretty much for him, right? He didn't deploy again and they ended up uh just getting out of the service.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. How everybody processes uh everything is just endlessly we've been finding this with the podcast too, is just listening to everybody dealt with it very differently in the in the moment, and then we've all dealt with it very differently subsequently too. Um and uh unfortunately for us, it was in the early early part of all of it, they didn't have no one had any real appreciation of what was going on, how to deal with it. Um there wasn't much space for it. And uh fortunately things have progressed enough that I think it's a little bit better. I don't know. Obviously, I'm not in the military now, but I I I think there's a little bit more space for it. But I know um, at least maybe with age, uh giving more uh a lot, you know, giving space for everyone of being like, you know, that wasn't some intense shit. And um how have you dealt with it is a is a really important part of the conversation to make sure you're the best version of yourself.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think the one of the the stronger points would be the reintegration, right? Is you don't pull them from that, right? Uh I think one of the old things if we would say is three hots in a cot, right? You you get three days of rest and then reintegrate with your with your Marines or your or your unit, right? And we found that's to be the most uh the best responses come from that. And then there's just some that just have that break. You know, uh, I think they recall there was a sergeant that uh that actually planned to frag the HQ. I don't know if you remember that guy. He was uh African American or black dude. Uh he was a sergeant, and I think Jim caught him singing psalms or you know, it sounds to mean being a medical professional now, no more, like he was bipolar and maybe had a manic manic break, and that that he was trying to kill, he actually had a plan to uh kill uh the Marines. I I think one of his targets was uh Mr. Wyler personally, so yeah. Uh I don't know if you guys recall that guy or not, but uh he wasn't there very long.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I I I would not have been able to pull that memory up, but that's another one that yes, I I I think I know who you're talking about, too. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Somebody else mentioned that story of somebody trying to wanting to frag Wyler, but I I dude, I I didn't remember that either until somebody else brought it up. It's just not in my yeah, did it's weird how numb you get, especially towards the end of this deployment. And a lot of people have that like two-line thing, like the Battle of Rumadi was the fourth, you know, fourth, fifth, sixth, you know, seventh, maybe the tenth. Like it's just these few days. And then after that, and it's like, well, not after that, like by the time July hit, we were literally in a gunfight every other day, like or every day for many, many weeks. And by the time you were covering two platoons, that's actually why I really asked when you were covering two platoons, is if you were covering it the last two months, not only was it 130 degrees out on the pavement, and a lot of dudes were dropping from heat casually. So I imagine you were sticking IVs in people every fucking day. But also, we were doing cordon and searches every week or two. So those were eight to 12 hour ops where you're out in the heat kicking down doors and searching houses all fucking day. And a lot of times those ended or started with gunfights, and then every other day was gunfights. And it, and I mean, looking through just I'm looking at my list right here is like July 14th, the advanced team was attacked, Captain Rapicolt got burnt right after that. The next big thing was July 21st, OP Library got blown down. There was that huge fight at Saddam's Mosque. Uh, there was a big, uh, huge eruption in the south of the city. Uh, you know, I can just keep going, but it's there's uh engagements every week basically were large 12 to 14 hour engagements where people were out.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and and again, I was I was there for I want to say all of those for the most part, and uh it was difficult. What what I feared the most was, I mean, I'm sure you recall taking friendly fire from from the army was that crossfire. Yeah, you know, we'd come into their position as we're moving into our cordon, and these guys got fucking sandbag things set up, opened up MREs just laying there chilling, you know. And uh I think there's a a memory I have of a Bradley uh just turning on to uh I think a little group of insurgents try to uh enter into a cordon and then just fucking smoked them and then they just packed up all their gear and left, right? And they did they left the rest for us. But yeah, I think the longest I can recall is maybe 13 hours uh in in ticks, right? So maybe the longest gunfight, like straight gunfight with eight hours between kicking indoors and then uh you know snatching up people. But yeah, it was a that was probably 13, 14 hour days, 16 hour days. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Did you have any difficulty keeping dudes going for those?
SPEAKER_02:Uh no, you know, every every ever I it I feel when you're there, a lot of it is, you know, everyone comes in, like I said, you know, dumb and enlisted, right? Running from something, running to be something. I think everyone really held on because of everyone else, right? The shenanigans and shit that we would do, you know, uh, like you mentioned, the crazy huge stories, right? So um, but yeah, uh I I feel strongly everyone stuck to it. The only one that we had was Mr. Stickle. And Stickle was a peculiar fella, right? Uh he he's still dealing with uh his traumas, and a lot of his traumas now that I know, uh you know, again in retrospect and being more mature and having been in medicine for this long. Uh he had a lot of uh unaddressed traumas prior to the military. Uh he was actually a drug pop. So he he popped on a urinalysis and we ended up taking him anyways. And uh to me, I was like, well, is this the kind of Marine we want to be with? Yeah, you know, he's on drugs or whatever. Um, but he ended up being a uh a fierce warrior and a fighter, even though he did some dumb shit when we were there. Um, but no, other than him, my all all the guys they stayed in the fight, you know. Uh they stayed in a fight, and I believe it was it was for the guy to your left and to your right. Uh it was for nothing else. And no one really wanted to go, right? Uh every time I can still remember map map platoons uh getting QRF called up and pardoning you guys switching out trucks and last minute to just to to uh mob up and go out the fucking wire, right? And I was like, that's that's the kind of shit. So I didn't I didn't leave. I didn't I personally did not know anyone that didn't want to leave and go out and and fight for each other.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. 100%. I think they one of the one of the things that I as as we've had these discussions I keep going back to that we were just so incredibly fortunate for. And you doc, you you outlined a lot of it. Um uh but I I think it's important to also say that our officer corps also wanted to fight. And it it really, really helped because unless you were on camp guard, and even when you were on camp guard uh for that week, if shit if shit went down, people rolled out. It wasn't, you know, people weren't you know being like, Man, I hope we don't have to go. It was like you're like let's you know, let's fire up the trucks and let's roll out, even if it was your if it was, you know, it was you're the you're on the opposite schedule. And uh I and and as Nylan was saying, and you were saying too, it's it's you know that we were all friends. We were, you know, weapons company was a you know a decent size, but we all knew each other really closely, and we were and we wanted to go both we wanted to go take the fight to the enemy, but we also wanted to make sure that our friends got back safely. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and uh I I can I have one you talk about officers, uh Lieutenant Dobb. He was he was my guy, right? So uh we're only a few months apart in age, and I didn't realize that. Yeah uh and it's kind of like uh was that saving private ryan where everyone's trying to figure out what the captain did in his prior life, you know? That's kind of how I looked at at Derek, right? It's like what did this guy do? Because he was always so calm and reserved, and being a senior enlisted guy and having been to combat subsequently after Ramadi and being in the position of being in charge of of personnel and their true livelihood, or they're gonna return home. Uh, I I could not understand the immense amount of pressure or stress that that man was under or that Marine. Uh, and I remember it came to a head because uh they were running that little mission. Jim was his little uh crew of uh of man dresses, and I remember bearded ladies. Yeah, the bearded ladies. I remember him getting into it with uh Sergeant Major at the time, uh Booker, because he they wanted to utilize us for a night mission. And uh that he just wasn't fucking feeling that or having it. I thought we were gonna lose him. I thought Kennedy was gonna put him up on paper and take him out of the platoon. And I think that was a discussion with all of us that uh because he he's like, fuck that. Our guys aren't, we're not, we're not leaving the fucking wire. I'm not gonna put my man in this position to go out there and so you guys can get your rocks off, you know. Um, but yeah, that officer, you know, if it wasn't for him and his his uh perseverance, what he'd he'd gone through, uh I don't think I'd a lot of us wouldn't be here today. So thanks for mentioning that. That that's a big one. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So it go back, uh I want to kind of bring us back to um the fact that you were kind of running solo uh as often as you were. Um what do you what do you remember of uh of the differences between the two of the two uh platoons? Did you see it? Did you see a difference between how Sledgehammer ran and uh Rainmaker ran?
SPEAKER_02:Well, I mean Sledgehammer pretty much had Sergeant Major or uh now Sergeant Major Cook. That dust delight. Right, you know, staff sergeant cook. Yeah, staff sergeant cook. Uh and Dobb was for you know uh Rainmaker. It it was that difference between the mindset of staff and CO or staff and CO Corps and then Officer Corps, you know, uh and the way they fought and the way that they they moved the platoon was a lot different, you know. Uh and the way we even even to you know learning knowing about the good old O Sniak and Bamsis, right? Those good old everybody, those good old things is is is in retrospect and having talked about those battles and and and worked through them um because uh yeah, it really gave more insight. Uh and of course we talk shit about you know uh uh sledgehammer all the time, right? We always called you guys the B team. But I was like, hey, I'm over there with the B team. But no, it it was just the different, it was a different group of personalities, right? And but they still fought just as fierce, right? And and and not take anything away from uh you know the um the sledgehammer, but uh yeah, there was definitely a difference. I I've and I felt the difference, the energy was different, right? It was a different line of NCOs, a different uh different style of leadership. So uh when it came to engagement uh and reactiveness, it would there was a difference, but uh again, I I wouldn't choose one over the other.
SPEAKER_01:So no, I I was uh even even at the time I was hyper aware of how much we were asking of a couple of our um staff NCOs being put in in a commander role. Um and uh I mean uh you're yeah, I think you kind of were touching on it, the idea that you know, fortunately the Marine Corps structures itself in a way that says, you know, everyone's a leader and we're gonna teach everybody how to command and control that, you know, even though you know, as an NCO, you know, you might have to be in charge of the platoon um if if if shit goes sideways. And so uh it it makes sense that they were able to say, Hey, uh uh I need you to run these platoon guys. Um, but I still knew that that was a huge ask. And um it'll be it would be interesting to be able to talk to some of the guys eventually about what that meant and the stressors that were uh of of being being a a commander in combat when you were uh a staff NCO.
SPEAKER_02:So yeah, and again, like I had alluded to before that I don't think you guys give yourself enough credit as that NCO, uh that first line battle uh engagement, right? I mean that really shaped the fight, is the calls, and then the staff NCO and officer having the the trust in their NCO because my two guys were uh uh Sergeant Garcia and then uh Sergeant Layton, right? And then you of course, Blake, where you were at. Um sorry, Shane, I I did a little work with you guys, but that's all right, you know, just you know, I I could not imagine that immense amount of pressure because doctors did whatever the fuck Doc wants, right? Like Doc, you know, uh I was pretty much very just I lived vicariously through you guys, you know, and I just responded to where I was uh told to go essentially. So um, but yeah, in retrospect, looking back and then been through these uh enlisted academies and and these NCO courses and and hearing them talk about uh battle and then uh frontline leadership. That that part of the core is the that junior NCO. Um, but that's kind of helped model my my ability to to have stayed this long, you know. Uh they call it uh abrasive in the Navy. I call it fucking real world shit, but yeah, it's it's it's funny.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's awesome.
SPEAKER_01:If you like what you've heard, this is a multi part episode. Make sure you listen to the rest of the story.