Constant Combat

A Lifetime of Explosives - Heath McKenzie (part 1 of 2)

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Heath McKenzie's story comes with a lot of laughs sprinkled into a good recounting of some busy days. The streets emptied and everyone knew what came next. If you listen closely, he gives an excellent account of tactical changes made from lessons learned. We walk through April 6 and 7 as Golf pinned down... QRFs ambushed from both east and west, and a small team surging ahead to break the line while the rest of the convoy wrestles contact on every block.

• joining 2-4 on the heels of 9/11
• Okinawa extension, stop-loss, MP assignment
• Kuwait training with Brits
• improvised armor and welded gun mounts
• April 6–7 ambushes
• casualty evacuation under fire
• April 10 bug hunt and a bridge overwatch mortar find
• partnering with ODA for raids and cordons
• patrol rotations, QRF rhythm, daily grind
• Conde’s death on Route Michigan and survivor’s guilt

If you like what you've heard, this is a multi part episode. Make sure you listen to the rest of the story.


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SPEAKER_01

All right, man. Let's introduce everybody who you are.

SPEAKER_03

All right. Uh my name's Jared Heath McKenzie. Uh I was with Map3. Um, I was a corporal while in Ramadi. Um, they called me Heath, Mac, Mick, Kinsey. Uh Latham called me crazy cracker there for a little bit, but that's who I was back then.

SPEAKER_01

That's good, man. So wherever you want to start, let's do it.

SPEAKER_03

Uh, I mean, it was uh, I mean, my whole in my four years in the Marines, it was kind of a crazy ride. Uh I guess um meeting you guys at I met you guys as soon as I hit the fleet with 2-4 back in August. And uh, of course, September 11th happened. Um, and come to find out that was my birthday. I turned 20 years old on that once when the towers fell. I was coming off of duty. Um so yeah, I didn't I didn't I didn't get the boot basher like the rest of the guys for their birthday. So I got out of that um because September 11th happened.

SPEAKER_01

Um yeah, uh I like to point out that 2-4 put you on duty for your birthday. That's that's perfect.

Okinawa, Stop-Loss, And MP Duty

SPEAKER_03

It was perfect, man. It was uh I didn't find it at all. Uh they uh they had to chase me down whenever uh if they wanted to get their licks in for my birthday, so it was one that bad. Um but yeah, I mean it was I don't even know where to start. Uh, you know, everything working up to Iraq, uh, we had the one year in Okinawa, which was a crazy ride um within itself because the extension of Okinawa and everything. Um I didn't get the work up that you guys did, or a lot of the guys did, because as soon as as soon as we got back from Okinawa, I ended up pretty much going on temporary assignment to military police. I don't know if you guys remember that. No, I don't remember that. So we got the boot drop and everything while I was stationed or temporary sign, like living on Mainside. And I was getting training with the SRT, you know.

SPEAKER_00

Were you married?

SPEAKER_03

No, I got okay. I got married literally right before deployment.

SPEAKER_02

Hmm.

SPEAKER_03

So I got married beginning of February and got we got shipped out like two weeks later.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, okay. February 16th. Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Well, I I was I was just wondering it since you were over on main side, I wasn't sure if that was because you were married or not.

SPEAKER_03

So no, I was on main side because I was part of the military police. I was doing um uh gate guard and I was uh right along with patrollers, patrolling.

SPEAKER_00

Now that you're talking about it, now I'm remember I I'm starting to remember this.

Orders To Iraq And The Long Transit

SPEAKER_03

Because that was when everybody got stopped lost. So they were I was with a bunch of guys that had that was already out, got stopped loss. They were, you know, some of them were pretty overweight, had beards, and they did not give two shits if you were clicking and driving on base at that time because they were supposed to be out at that already. So it was it was it was kind of crazy. And um the I think I found out about us go going back to or going to Iraq in like uh Thanksgiving, I believe it was, like a couple of days before Thanksgiving. And that would make sense.

SPEAKER_00

Did you go to our did you go to the ball that year with us?

SPEAKER_03

No. I missed everything. I have I've yet to go to a ball. I've never seen a ball at all. The uh um yeah, I found out like a couple days before Thanksgiving. They told us that we're we're going back, and they call actually the uh Gunny Coleman is the one that called the MPs and said we need him back. He's coming back, and then after Christmas, I went home for like I think 10 days for Christmas or something, and then got back to the unit after after Christmas. So I didn't get to go through just pretty much anything um with you guys. And then I got to back to 2-4 and it was all these new faces, all the new machine gunners, you know, Kelly, like in our platoon, it was you know, Kelly and Pepper and um all those guys, you know, Cummins and Gordon, and but it was uh it was pretty pretty crazy, like there was no work up for me, really. And I was just talking to Condi um like all of January, like working with Condi through January, and then February we shipped off. But um, yeah, I've been listening to those podcasts, and it was pretty crazy. I guess we was on the same flight because we left March Air Force Base. I thought we went to we stopped in Connecticut, it might have been New Jersey, but we that was the first time uh like Muniz and Fernandez ever seen snow.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

They uh and I I did we go on a like a PT run or something like that? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

We ran in formation in the snow in New Jersey. We were there for five days, I think, or a week. I don't know, we were there a while.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and then uh because there was some problem problems with the with the plane, and then I remember getting to Germany and we ended up staying in like the hangar for like three days, and I remember going through the airport with like Silton, I forgot why we they let us finally go into the actual civilians like airport, and like I remember Cox buying the Stein and everything, all that crazy crap, and uh uh because we had a fuel leak, and then of course flying into Kuwait, getting drunk on a plane with Weiler and all of them, um packed in there like sardines.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

Kuwait Workups And Convoy North

SPEAKER_03

Um, but yeah, the uh oh, I'm I meant to say something. Uh the only reason I actually got to go on that deployment was because of Gunny Coleman. I don't know if you know this, but uh on Thanksgiving day I drank a little bit too much and tried and got caught before the m uh the military gate. Oh no. Trying to get back on base. And uh that's all been cleaned up. That all got cleaned up, of course, but I told Gunny Coleman and he told me not to tell anybody. Otherwise, I'd be in deep shit and they needed me. Yeah, so um he uh he saved my ass and he even gave me a lawyer's phone number and told me and got it cleared up while I was in Iraq.

SPEAKER_01

No shit. Dude, that that guy was a fucking ninja. He did all kinds of stuff behind the behind the scenes that that nobody knew of. And that it I I imagine I I know he went to Echo Company and held together Echo Company while we were over. And I man, he was really an asset. That that dude really did a lot of good shit for a lot of people. That's cool to hear.

Early Contacts Near Ramadi

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, he was uh he was like, listen, listen, Kinzie, I don't want to hear about this shit ever again. You understand? Here's a number, get it fixed. Because I I told my chain of command, oh well. That's awesome. Nice. Um, but yeah, the uh yeah, that's yeah, that just point that like sticks out to me. Um, but then you know, Kuwait, I think we um we ended up training with like I remember like some of the like the Brits we trained with a little bit over there in Kuwait before going up. Good. Um they had all this high speed, you know, shit that we didn't have at the time. We were with like a part of the air wing um escorting them up to um what's the air base just like east to cotton. Yeah, uh they had way too many vehicles for like the five vehicles that we were at security. Um and I remember uh the one time we actually got a little bit of con it was like not even major contact, it was just uh some pop shots. And one of the airwing guys was in the turret, but they didn't have a gun. He just had his or his uh M16, and uh he literally shot himself in the leg and almost shot the driver um like the second day going up. Jeez, yeah. Um wasn't even in country like three days and shot himself on the leg. Insane, but uh now it's I'm just just curious.

SPEAKER_01

Did you guys end up patching them up and evac from on site or did you just on site, yeah, patched them up and evacued on site, and it was like I don't know if you remember this, like uh there's like three or four different Babylons that we drove through.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and uh it got patched up, got flown out, and then we just kept pushing through, dropped them off at uh TQ and went into Ramadi. And I don't even know what when that was. Uh it's been so long, but uh we were of course in Kuwait for like a I think it was like a week or something, and then drove up to Ramadi. I remember even before April, we got in some contact like before that, like a small like a small skirmish, and then of course April shit just hit the fan.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Do you remember more of that uh that that engagement that that you're talking about, the first one?

SPEAKER_03

Uh it's it's kind of like all of them kind of mixed into each other, but I remember I know that we got into at least um I mean, well, it could have been a couple hours, it could have been you know 30 minutes, but I remember the engagement because we had already before April 6th, we had already gotten into at least one. I know that. Because whenever we got in April 6, it was like, well, this is this is what we're gonna do this time, you know what I mean? Because we were tired of we were tired of just doing a 360 and waiting for them.

SPEAKER_01

Oh yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, I mean, timeline-wise, I don't know exactly when your convoy went across, but ours was March 6th, was when we crossed the line of departure. And so we did the left seat, right seats for a week or so while the rest of the company joined us and got there. So I again I don't know exactly when you guys got there. I was uh new in country just like you were, and so I was very focused on what my platoon was doing. But it had to have been the sixth or the seventh. I mean, if you drove up in a convoy, those convoys all came back to back.

SPEAKER_03

Right. I think it didn't they space them like a day or two apart, yeah.

Making Armor From Scraps

SPEAKER_01

But I I don't know how much. Yeah, it might have been March 8th. I'm not real sure.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, but I remember like the because for like we didn't have set trucks because sometimes I was uh I was in the back of a high back with latham and you know, cocks and those goofballs, and then sometimes like once we finally got some of the um up armored vehicles, we ended up going no up uh no highbacks, and like um and I ended up being a vehicle commander a couple times and then uh backseat, you know. So it was uh I remember the like of course through April um we was in we had the highbacks and light skinned and you know it was just insane looking back like how open everything was and honestly how lucky we really were for sure. Um, you know, half doors or just canvas doors. Um, I know you and Brown was doing a lot of welding, and yeah, um it was uh it was pretty insane.

April 6 Ambush And Push Forward

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. I mean uh Gunny Maroki was the one that was sort of instrumental in all that. He when what gear we couldn't steal when we were in Kuwait, because I know Blake Blake and his platoon stole a bunch of armored doors, or not stole, but recovered a bunch of armored doors from a a gear dump. Well, I mean it wasn't really stole because acquired. I don't know that it was assigned to us, but it was in a gear dump from a unit who was leaving country, so there's no reason why our unit shouldn't get it going into country. But you guys went and got a whole like two highbacks full of doors, and that was the first of any doors that we had, and those were the half doors. And then yeah, me and Brown and Monroe and Savage and a few other people all like welded together pieces and welded together doors and welded together pinto mounts in order to make it so we had anything at all because there just wasn't gear that was made for this type of mission. You've mentioned April a couple times now. I know you were in the back of the well, I don't know that, but I I've heard other people mention you were in the back of the high back on April 6th. You want to talk a little about that?

Street Tactics And Coordinated Traps

April 10 Bug Hunt And Casualties

SPEAKER_03

Um, yeah, um it was kind of crazy. Uh, so I don't remember who the driver was. I know Condi was vehicle commander. I think Brown or Pepper was the gunner. And me and Latham was sitting in the back with a gunner. Um, and we hear, I mean, it was a medium-size, you know, like a I don't even remember what what it was, because we ended up recovering the machine gun. It was a belt-fed machine gun in an alleyway, but we started hearing like zipping right up right over our heads. Um, and it was like like little firecrackers. And me and Latham kind of just looked at each other like, oh shit. Um, we know we we know where they're coming from now. It's behind me. Thank god I got my head down. But uh we jump out and I just hear Condi's like, let's go. So me and Cox just take off with him, and uh we got because the previously we already got in contact, and we just kind of setting up a 360 waiting for them to come to us, and they never came to us. So we take off with Condi and uh like they were like almost like whack-a-mole, like it was coming out of windows and rooftops, and almost like this is like like like shooting doves, you know what I mean? It was like they're everywhere, and we're getting shot at from every angle, and we've got engaged on the right and the left, and we're just following Condi, and he's seeing him up on the rooftop, and he comes to a corner, and he gets like it just a through and through on his shoulder, his left shoulder, and I'm like literally right behind him, and it was like slow motion. Like I see it, I'm like, holy fuck, you're you know, you're hit, you know, and uh kind of jerk him back, and there's three guys literally on like in the alley right next to or in the little side street right next to us, and um we take him out, and Condi Lardi's jumping back up. He gets patched up. We come back, try to fall back to where the vehicles are, and Brown and Pepper and Kelly, and those guys are already kind of setting up their vehicles because Rapazo was instrumental on like setting up vehicles in the right spots in the right time. Um, they were like literally bounding and just taking out rooftops of all the different people, and it was it was kind of crazy. Um Condi, of course, gets patched up. He gets like uh D out Doc Dialco like rips his sleeve off and puts bandages on him, and he's still Condi's still running around with you know his uh one arm. It was uh um and then like we're still trying. I think we're the whole reason out we went out there is because golf call golf company, I believe, was pinned down in a certain area, yeah, if I remember correctly. Um and we were trying to get to them, and we're it literally had to fight to get to them and then help some of the wounded get out. And I think uh Gentilli, I think that was the the same day, he got his jaw blown off. And uh like I mean, it was uh it was pretty pretty crazy. Um he had his jaw blown off and he had one hand on his jaw and one hand on his weapon still walking around. Um and what I then right after that we get we link up with the rest of the golf company or the golf platoon that was out there with and uh they just had a like a the sheet or whatever it is, the the thin uh like warmer sheet. I don't forgot what it's called. It's like the um that foil blanket. Foil blanket, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And we already saw the heart the the helmet and everything like full of blood, and that's when it really like hits you that this is fucking real, like you could really get hurt because before even going up, like before the little engagements and stuff like that, you didn't it almost did feel like real. You know, everybody says that you you think you're invincible until you realize you're not. Well that was my that was my moment. Like I was like it was like a it like like a fucking video game, you know, like just point and shooting, you know, and we picked up um that body it really hit because you could feel that there was no lifeless there was it was completely lifeless in this body um and then uh put him in the back of uh I think we put him in the back of the high back um I don't I don't remember the uh the some of the army did end up showing up showing up after I think it was several hours at that time um and then again I might be wrong that might be the next day because we got in a pretty big engagement the next day also um I know M113's the Bradley's Bradley's showed up one of those two days because that is the best sound in the world hearing the Bradley gun go off electric electric belt fed whatever just oh man it was like just completely Swiss cheese of everything um but they didn't want you to get next to them because apparently they had reactive armor or something so um but we loaded up one thirty the M113s and got a bunch of cat a bunch of the casualties out and we did hit a house the same day or the same time that the same day that Condi got shot because he still had the bandage on his arm when we had Silton drive through the gate and we found a big cache of weapons and everything. It was up um because I mean everybody was shooting at us I think it was like oh the Americans are here let's just let's just shoot at them while we're while they're standing out there so yeah um remember the colonel and sergeant major of the first ID come like coming out there either like I said the sixth or the seventh and and giving us ammo and like the the yellow workman's gloves from the colonel I'm like this guy's nuts like he tried to their gloves like it was pretty crazy um but yeah those two days kind of intertwine with each other because it's it was like a big blur yeah you were out I'm curious how long you think you were out on the the on those two days because it I know what it approximately is from the official accounts but I'm curious from your perspective how it felt uh I mean because it's been so long I mean how what is the official account so I was thinking it was like four or five hours but I don't I I think your first day you were out it was six hours maybe a little more and then the the second day was much longer. The second day as far as I know because you guys got and you'll have to correct me if I'm wrong but what I have on my notes is that you guys got hit again or you went out again and the exo was with you supposedly and you were fighting near the soccer fields uh initially and then you moved up north from the soccer fields and there was like a I think there was some kind of um graveyard that was nearby there that all sound yeah our there's a I remember I is I remember but I didn't think that was the same day because we had I know we it was a shitload of fighting um and we ended up linking up with either another platoon from Echo or golf because they were doing instead of doing vehicle mounted patrols they were doing uh foot patrols throughout the city and that's what we were going out to help but uh and there's just IEDs fucking everywhere every like the crazy thing about Roboty I mean you guys know um like we knew when we was about to get in a fight because it's 400 something thousand people uh that most of them didn't have jobs and they were everywhere on a normal day and then when you knew you knew you was about to get in a shit stuff uh shitstorm because all of a sudden there's nobody on the streets and there's a lot of oh there's some oh we're pulled down the street oh there's tires blocking the street there's nobody here I wonder what's going on down here or like trees that are palm trees that are cut down and like what the what the fuck guys like here we go yeah a lot of the TTPs as far as like the blocking the streets was always interesting because it never really blocked the street but it definitely let you know you were about to get in some shit so at least at least all of a sudden you were more alert yeah yeah yeah putting barrels in the street or lighting shit on fire in the street they would do that occasionally the cut down I never had to cut down palm trees but I know you guys did on easy street that was the they threw those in the middle of the street to try to block it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah and it's like we're in a Humvee and we can just drive over it they're not like they're not like tractor tires either it's like little car tires I'm like oh fuck here we go yeah it's uh yeah I tell people like stories about that I'm like yeah we knew where it's coming we just didn't know where from exactly so I'm curious you said a lot of fighting I and taking contact from all sides that was my experience as well uh I was in a different part of the city I was in the north part of the city and fighting in the Sophia district I'm curious uh how many enemy do you think you were engaged with over the course of the day and it's I know it's hard to count because you would shoot people and they'd disappear because they would drag off the bodies and throw them in trucks or hide them or whatever. So we never did see them.

Bridge Overwatch And DIY Mortar Find

SPEAKER_03

Taxis yeah yeah the uh little orange and white taxis we we ran in I mean I would say thousands I mean because it it fee it felt like as soon as you knock one down two two more appear so um you know you take a corner and you're like where the fuck are all these people coming from like they're like popping out of doors and windows and they're on rooftops. The only good thing was like if they're on rooftops that you had a sense of like you know where where they were coming from for the simple fact that you know each city block had a wall all the way around it. Right. So um at least most of it most of the city did so it was like well we know we've got like five over there you know what I mean in that block. So it was but they were just running shooting and ducking and running down the street.

SPEAKER_01

So um I'd say probably a thousand at least yeah I I always found the official counts interesting. When you look at the official counts for the first battle of Ramadi it says that there was about a thousand killed that they could account for over the course from the from April 6th 7th and 10th I would I would bet if I was betting it's double or triple that number but I just because the exact same thing you're saying. And now I don't know what your platoon size was but I know it was close to the same size as mine. You're talking about a platoon of somewhere between 20 to 25 guys literally literally surrounded and you're probably killing four to one like that's a that's a that's a major engagement at the very least like let's imagine you guys only shot a hundred people which I bet it was more than that but that's that's a that's a hell of a fucking fight that's that's more than just like there was a lot of targets like that's you're truly outgunned and outnumbered yeah it was uh I mean it's it was seriously like whackaball I mean every time you hit one one pops up you know one or two pop up but it was uh it was it was crazy intense there for a short period of time and it was uh that's something you can never even really say into words like it's most people won't even believe you anyway so that's very true no I agree with that feeling too um so it's just and then the 10th I mean the sixth and seventh it like it feels like it was all in one and uh did we have did we end up having Hilo support at all either one of those days or was that the 10th? So the 10th was the only day that I know that we had Helos that came in and shot we actually had cobras that came in and ran guns.

Patrol Rotations And Daily Grind

SPEAKER_03

Okay. Because I remember I remember the Helos on the 10th because another guy from a golf company was killed on the 10th that's was originally from Nashville um and I remember the Helos being there that day. It's when first Sergeant Mack was with us on the 10th okay and uh we had a huge open field and with palm trees and we started getting engaged there also but we couldn't get around to the actual golf company that was uh that got ambushed that day.

Condi’s Death And Aftermath

SPEAKER_01

Do you remember employing any like specific tactics when you were uh you're I I I just went back to you talking about Rapazzo setting up the guns and you guys bounding down the streets and then also your comment about you know setting up in a 360 on the first in a couple engagements but then when things kicked off actually pushing in like do you remember like thinking about tactics and what what you're being intentional I guess is the word I would want to use well the uh well the of course whenever we first got there we supposed to set up a 360 and then engage the targets as they come up the the six we already kind of discussed it like we were the trucks were supposed to follow like it wasn't like me and like Condi just said hey we're going after them and we just took off because we were probably about five blocks from everybody else that wasn't the plan but nobody followed us nobody followed us like they were supposed to and that's what that's at least how I like to say it me and Condi and Cox did what we supposed to do nobody else did because when we look back we're like oh shit we're really far uh no thank god they didn't have very good tactics they could have cut us off but um like the the point was for us to get ahead of the vehicles and the vehicles were supposed to come up and bound with us and nobody else kind of they were so they got so engaged where they were as soon as we shot off we had uh what was it the the MPK or whatever um that like the eight RPK RPK is the uh yeah the magazine fed machine gun the RPD is the belt fed usually usually not always but uh RP whatever it is it was that was what was shooting from the right hand side uh and um they already engaged them they already killed that fucker and we're like moving up to get more targets because I mean they're just literally coming from everywhere so um the only thing we were trying to do was get to where we're supposed to link up with golf company anyway so it it sounds like on the opposite side they were having the same issue I don't I don't know if you've read the accounts from uh Captain Bronzey and the other golf company QRF but they were trying to do the same thing from the east side and it looks like I assume this was a more coordinated effort because that was the intel that we got later was that it was a coordinated effort but that they had ambushed that foot patrol and then they were going to ambush the reinforcements and then that's exactly what they did. They ambushed you guys coming in from the west and they ambushed uh Bronzey and the golf company QRF coming in from the east and then Rainmaker tried to reinforce uh coming in kind of from Saddam's mosque somewhat and they got ambushed also I mean they they got hit with also with a medium machine gun exactly I mean at very close range just like you said so it's it sounds like that was their tactic and uh it just didn't work out.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah because we literally like cut it in half and just kept on going around them. Um and then finally linked up with golf company and that's when we saw Gentile or gentilli and all of them um and I I remember either one of those two days uh during the firefight we ended up shooting one of the transformers and lighting it on fire because it's got a shitload of fluid in it and it's like neon green and it lights on fire and it will fuck some shit up it sparks with a Mark 19 who would have thought but anyway um yeah we yeah it was uh I don't even know how to explain it like it's just people everywhere they just want to kill you and you just got to shoot back and hope for the best you talked a little about clearing houses did you guys enter a lot of houses during the sixth and the seventh or just a few uh just a few on the sixth and the seventh um of course later on we ended up going into a lot of different houses um like especially bug hunt and all that and then uh after that we ended up going out with uh ODA a few times and doing three we started out going without going to Shark Base I think it was shark base shark base and picking them up they'd have like one or two Humvees with them and we'd do security convoy security type things with them and then set up a 360 and they finally let us raid the two houses next to the their actual hit house. Interesting so we'd hit the two houses on one house on each side and then they'd hit the middle one and there's pretty much because that way they can get to the roof and jump to one one or the other. Yeah so so that was pretty cool. It was uh those those were pretty those were pretty nuts like the way they did things was just like things you never even thought of like they'd have uh you know um pretty much a one of their informants in the back of their Humvee and it's got a blacked out window in their Humvee and they bring a guy out that they just you know got a bag over his head and they lift the bag up and the guy inside says yes or no and if it's yes they go in the fucking trunk and we take them back to shirt base.

SPEAKER_01

I'm like that's nuts no and uh they don't it was it was pretty crazy but yeah um but yeah the like bug hunt and then a couple of those with uh those guys from ODA pretty pretty awesome I know everything gets blurred together especially 20 20 some odd years later but uh after the big battle of Ramadi so 6th and 7th were the main big open ambushes and gunfights and the stuff that you're discussing april 10th was the first bug hunt and that was uh mostly up in the farm district of the Sophia district partially we later had an eat like on the 11th we had a a quick memorial service for all the dudes that got killed uh between the 6th 7th and 10th and then after that there's a lot of stuff that happened in May anything stand out to you kind of after the battle armadi I mean of course I I don't remember when Cummings got shot uh was that Darren Bughunt on the 10th so I'm not sure uh I've gotten two different dates from two different people but it was one of those days it was either the seventh or the 10th all right so it was the it was the 10th Cox seems to think it was the 7th just because he wasn't there and he was staying back with the gear and so I I don't I don't know you would know more than me it was your platoon it was uh it was definitely the the the 10th then because we we were on the north end um on route nova I think it was like the very right on the river road or whatever it is.

SPEAKER_03

Yep that's nova because we went through Michigan and then circled back up north and I think we had Rocco and Williams is the one that grabbed him up because we were going towards the house and for some reason we got caught like we got told to come back I forgot who else was with us but somebody an officer ended up being with us um and we had started coming back and he actually got shot through the back going back to the vehicles um and it was uh Williams is the one that actually grabbed him up and we got him into the vehicle and just took off back to base. So that was the 10th because I remember there was it was like a mud house and palm trees in the front yard and coming back is when he got shot coming back to the vehicle.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah but yeah that was that and of course you know uh so much stuff it was uh latham shooting from the bridge and make now that's uh it was really good to hear Latham's side of that and you were up there so I'd love to hear you part of it too.

SPEAKER_03

So um we're we took shifts because both of us are big smokers and you know uh we're we hear the thump like the like two or three thumps in the like out in the distance like just north of the river and uh we're like I wonder what the fuck that is. So we're like looking through the clue and um it was his turn on the gun. So he jumps up on the gun. I'm looking through the clue, and we're like talk, I'm like talking on the radio. Like, hey, uh, we got you know this, this, this, and then we hear the like it took a couple of seconds before it to hit um on the army side. Um, and uh as soon as I'm like, you have you have the you have the go-ahead engage, and we're like, okay, and it like them starts opening up before I even get the clue up to find out what he's shooting at. He's like, it's somewhere over here. I'm like, okay. Recon by fire. I'm like, okay, I've got the I've got the clue up, and like, oh yeah, go left up, you know, let's put him on target and uh end up. I who I guess your platoon muster is the one that actually went up there and found it. Um there's like makeshift tubes and everything.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I got a picture of that actually. That's the wild like they they were no dummies. They created that. That was a that that was a very cool looking uh uh rocket launcher thing that they made.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and uh we got called to the the base, the army base, and uh Latham was really, really hoping to get promoted, and uh it did not go out there because we got we got some stale-ass cigarette or stale ass uh cigars and like little team fans that uh run on triple A batteries, and I was like, Oh, this is great. It's a little Mr. You know that yeah, it's I was like, uh, okay, well that's okay, that's cool.

SPEAKER_01

Yep. You got to meet General Mattis, though.

SPEAKER_03

Oh yeah. Well, we we I think we met General Mattis even before that because he had uh the Bradleys and the M113s roll into our base on Hurricane Point before that, didn't he?

SPEAKER_01

I have no idea. Uh he came three times during our deployment, and it would there were random days that I don't remember. The only one I remember specifically was in June when his LAV uh convoy got hit by an IED. Outside of that, I don't I don't know anything. I don't remember a specific days when he was there, but yeah, he was there a few times.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, met him then, and then of course, with uh first ID. Um we got a coin that's his first ID and with like fans and cigars. Um we smoked them and yeah, that's I mean, that's that's all we got. Um I'm like, that's cool. Whatever we were we're buying cigar or uh um cigarettes from the little Haji store anyway.

SPEAKER_01

So anything else stand out to you from uh May or June?

SPEAKER_03

Just for like we did a lot of patrolling and stuff like that. I mean, just like the when y'all remember it was like a five-week rotation. I don't know if y'all like day day patrol, night or day patrol, day day QAF, um night patrol, night QRF, and then guard duty. But uh after that, I remember the guys getting drunk on the up on the tower on the bridge and tripping the flares and everything. Um a lot of it's a blur. Um Condi, of course, um July 1st. He uh he passed the uh IED explosion.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, if you want to tell that one, feel free. That was uh I was gonna wait until you brought it up.

SPEAKER_03

So yeah, uh, so yeah, Wyler was out there with us. We were we stayed out, I think was it I think it was overnight. We had uh like a observation post out there on the very like on the other side on the east side of town. Um and I don't I don't remember what exactly that's I think it was the same area that y'all got shot at with uh Abrams or whoever y'all got shot. That was me back there. That was you. Um thank god they missed. But anyway, um same area. We were out there, didn't really see anything, and then of course we drove down Route Michigan, and they somebody made the decision to turn around and you know make another pass. So we went back around, went back to uh outpost on the east end, and then same route back, rock to Michigan, and I got hit. Um it was in uh the high back. Um he got shravel, like rot in the forehead, right in between his eyes pretty much. Um and it was uh halfdoors knackers got part of his thigh blown off, and Vitzel got like a like finger or like something with his hand, uh shrapnel to his hand. Um as soon as we got Condi out, he was kind of I don't know, kind of gurgling, but we got the before it even getting back to base because he got life flighted out, um before even getting back to Hurricane Point, he we got the signal that he was stable in the helicopter. Um but as soon as we got back after um all that they told us that he had passed. So it I mean it wasn't very long after that. So yeah, it was uh I remember that one pretty well.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I do too, because I remember getting the news and coming over in the morning and our two platoons meeting, and everybody was everybody was hurting. Uh that's the easiest way to put it. Everybody was hurting, everybody was sitting down with a big disbelief.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, because I mean, even before that, I mean, he was he was one of those Marine Marines that didn't want to go home. And you know, even he could have had he had every opportunity to go home because his arm ended up being so numb that he couldn't even lift his left arm, and he ended up staying on light duty. He couldn't go back out for like a month and a half or whatever it was. And uh during that period, I ended up stepping into his role and being the uh the squad leader and everything, and then of course, like two weeks after he came back is when that happened. So that hurt pretty bad. Um, I blame myself for a long time, so it was uh still hurts every once in a while.

SPEAKER_01

I imagine I this is uh somewhat inappropriate to ask, but I don't understand why you would blame yourself. There's nothing nothing you had anything to do with.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, but I mean, it's just you know, it's the oddest guild.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

I don't know. It was it's one of those things that what could have coulda shoulda woulda, you know what I mean? He he had his shit together. I did not.

Multipart Note And Closing

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think there's always that feeling you feel like you should have been somewhere different, or that maybe you should have said something different or done something different, and it would have been a different outcome. And there's I don't know that there's any way to predict that because you could have drove down the road another hundred feet, there'd been another IED anyway, and it'd have got him or somebody else anyway, or you or anybody else.

SPEAKER_00

If you like what you've heard, this is a multi part episode. Make sure you listen to the rest of the story.