A Lifetime of Explosives - Heath McKenzie (part 2 of 2)

Part two with Heath McKenzie of MAP 3. He leads us thru the memory of Ramadi: VBIEDs, RPG ambushes, and his rare Javelin shot... and then recounts the long, messy work of coming home, sobriety, and leaning on people who answer the phone. 

• VBIEDs and the life-saving impact of up-armored Humvees
• The government center as a constant contact point
• Hooch life with volleyball, golf, Xbox, and rom-coms
• New joins... and close calls with power lines
• A sanctioned Javelin strike on a VBIED
• Lioness teams’ role in raids and sudden removal from missions
• Ramadi’s escalation
• The crash of homecoming, heavy drinking, VA struggles, and rehab
• Brotherhood, marriage, and learning to ask for help

If anyone reads this, we apologize; there is a mistake in this recording. There were 4 men killed in the March 31st convoy attack. Rest in Peace... we do remember Scott Helvenston, Jerry Zovko, Wesley Batalona and Mike Teague. 

----------------------------------------------
If you like what you heard, please subscribe on your favorite podcast service or follow our webpage for direct downloads @ https://www.buzzsprout.com/2525088

If you are a member of Weapons Company or someone with a story about Weapons Company 2/4 in 2004, please come tell some stories with us - 20 mins or 20 hours! Help paint the canvas of an archival story for others to know what it was like. Contact us @ RamadiPodcast@gmail.com, or via the podcast website above. 

All music used with permission by soundbay: https://www.youtube.com/@soundbay_RFM 

Transcript

VBIEDs, RPGs, And Up-Armors

SPEAKER_03 0:36

This is part two of our conversation with Heath McKenzie for Mobile Assault Platoon 3.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Yeah, I mean, we ended up hitting my truck, ended up hitting uh two IEDs and one RPG. Um it was uh pretty insane. The RPG one, I mean everybody hit IEDs at one point or another. Thank God we got the up armers when we did because I mean waiting for EOD was at the end of it was just not doable anymore. Um because I remember like sh ended up just having Mark 19 shoot 'em while we're coming up on 'em. If we suspected anything, we just shoot 'em. Oh, there's a dead hog in the middle of the road. Let's just go ahead and shoot that just in case. And it'll just explode out of nowhere. But the VB IDs were some of them were pretty insane, intense.

SPEAKER_03 1:40

Yeah. Uh you guys had more than your fair share of VB IDs, as far as I can remember. We had one or two. Uh, I know for sure you had two in one day. Uh, you definitely had two more from there. I don't know how many others you hit, but you guys had at least four or five VB IDs, and you had one suicide VB ID.

SPEAKER_00 2:03

Yes. Yeah. Um the one that I I remember the most, it was in between my vehicle and Sergeant Lachard's vehicle. And the uh it was a VB ID and it was a gas one also. They filled it up with gas. It was right outside the gate on a route, Michigan.

SPEAKER_03 2:25

Yep.

The Government Center Kill Zone

SPEAKER_00 2:26

Um we pulled out, and I think that may have been the seventh, also. I'm not 100% sure. But anyway, as soon as we pull out, Sergeant Lachard. And then we're as soon as Sergeant Lachard passes it, it blows, and it is the biggest fireball I've ever seen. I was like, holy fuck, we come to a complete stop. There was a like a grandfather and two kids uh on the other side of the road, and they're just pink mist. Like it was insane, like everything was just cleared off. But uh Lexard jumps out, I jump out, we're like like looking, and we were on a QRF heading heading out to help some guys. And well, we we ain't got nobody to shoot, so jump back in the vehicles and just keep going. But it was uh that was that was probably the biggest one I remember. Um, of course, the other one is when that uh two five guy got blown up in his face. That remember, remember that one? The other one, uh the RPG. Um I meant to say this, it was me and I know it was Privatar because he was in the back seat. And I I don't remember why, but I was driving. We pull up in the alley, we get in it's right before the government center, and we're pulling up in the alley to kind of cover that alley. As soon as I pull up in the alley, an RPG is coming right at us, and we're about to dismount. I thought Priventar was dead because it hit right on the door while he was about to open it. Um it was uh pretty insane. We got both both tires on the right hand side were blown out, uh huge, huge dent on the right door, and then like we just limp it back into the base.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

Was that when you had an up armored Humvee?

SPEAKER_00 4:40

We had an up armored Humvee, thank God.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

Oh, okay. I was gonna say that.

SPEAKER_00 4:44

I don't know how that quarter door would allow Humvee because like everybody in there, like I remember kind of waking up and dust everywhere, you know what I mean? And I'm like, the radio is going absolutely insane. I'm like, oh fuck. So I just hit the gas and they're like, you guys okay? I'm like, fuck, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 5:14

Yeah, that I I don't know which alleyway you're talking about. There was two big ones right there by the government center, but one of them was just a shit magnet. I don't I don't think I think that's where everybody got hit all the fucking time. I mean, people got hit by mortars there, people got hit by RPGs there, several small arms engagements in that alley. And and we had posts all around it, so it's not like you couldn't see things. It just there's nothing you couldn't cover every little nook and cranny of that weird ass alley.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

Yeah. Well, there was that open construction area behind the building on across the way. I mean, they would come across over there. That's where I was popping those guys on the after on that last day when they didn't left seat, right seats. Yeah, and I was just picking them off. They're running across there.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

But anyways, yeah. Talking about the government center, I mean, I remember we did did y'all get to eat at the government center at all?

SPEAKER_03 6:10

So I personally never did, but I know we we escorted the BC there, and other guys that went in did get to eat. I always stayed out with the trucks.

SPEAKER_00 6:18

Yeah, so I got to eat in there once and I decided not to do that ever again. Um I mean it it don't get me wrong, it some of it was pretty good food, you know, it's lamb and you know the the flatbread and you know rice and but it's all like like all like family style, but there's no plagues to pass around. So you're eating from a big like trough. It was the weakest thing I ever seen. I was like, you can't use your left hand at all for like anything. So I'm like, I don't know how I don't I don't know about this.

SPEAKER_03 6:59

I know and I don't know about you guys, but a couple of our guys that went in, they ended up with the shits like so bad that they like they were shitting in bags in the Humvees and stuff, like they were in in bad shape.

SPEAKER_00 7:11

Dude, that's uh I mean I held on the back side of the Humvee and was taking shits. You know what I mean? Like crack the door, I'm grabbing a hole. Um yeah. The uh yeah, it was bad. Like puking and shitting and uh yeah, and the of course close quarters, it was everybody it just got passed around multiple times by everybody, and then uh then of course the water that you couldn't drink, you know, that parasites or whatever. You could take a shower in it, but don't open your mouth.

SPEAKER_03 7:52

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 7:53

Here's bottle water, here's bottled water so you can brush your teeth. And I'm like, okay, guys, this is insane.

SPEAKER_03 8:03

Well, speaking of speaking of hooch life, you remember uh anything good from back when you guys were staying back in the back in the rear a little bit?

SPEAKER_00 8:10

Yeah, um, we had the of course the volleyball net uh beside the hooch right there. We were the last ones. We're the we're map three, so we're all the way at the end, and we had the volleyball net. We ended up doing the smoke pit with us, of course, the sea or the sandbags everywhere. It was uh and we got I don't know if you remember, we got golf clubs and golf balls shipped to us.

SPEAKER_03 8:36

I do remember that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:37

And the motor tee, the army motor tee, hated us because we were knocking the piss out of those golf balls across the river and hitting their five tons of their home bees and just flanking shit all the time. It was pretty awesome. Like Silton had the best drive. I ain't gonna lie. He he I guess he knew how to golf before. Uh I I played baseball and I couldn't hit it straight for shit. I took up golfing about five years ago, and I still can't hit it shit straight for shit.

SPEAKER_03 9:15

At least nothing changed.

SPEAKER_00 9:17

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:18

You guys always had the best recreational gear, man. You had volleyball, you had golf clubs, you guys had dodgeballs. Uh, you guys had I remember you had an Xbox and you had multiple movies, lots of movies.

SPEAKER_00 9:29

Yeah, well, it the Xbox was pretty awesome. We actually had two. We had our first one got so dusty that it it shit the bed. So we got another one shipped to us. Um, and then the the Haji store had every burn DVD you could ever imagine. I mean, and for some reason we loved romance movies, the rom com like it nothing nothing clears your head like a rom com. You know what I mean? Like what if you let's get in a six-hour firefight. What's a rom com?

Hooch Life: Volleyball And Rom-Coms

SPEAKER_01 10:12

I've just I've joked before that uh the best way to know whether or not somebody actually saw the shit is if you asked them what their uh their the the song that they wrote into battle on and if they said something like disturb is like I don't think so, but they said there's like oh yes, no, it's uh you actually saw something.

SPEAKER_00 10:38

Yeah, yeah. What was it? Like it was like uh Brittany Spears and April April Levine or whoever it was back then.

SPEAKER_03 10:50

Yeah, Avril Levine, you had Christina Aguilera. Um we rode to an op uh listening to Tattoo. Mm-hmm. Yeah, we rode to an op listening to Barbie Girl by Aqua one time. That was cool. Yeah, uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 11:10

That's awesome. Yeah, uh yeah, but Hooch Life was, I mean, the only thing was like it that river was right there, and you would there's just no way we could get it in.

SPEAKER_01 11:22

Yeah, for a bunch of different reasons.

SPEAKER_00 11:24

Yeah, a lot of different reasons. The uh yeah, and we had the hooch like probably like 32 degrees at all times of the day. Like you get to outside for you know, what is it what 120 degrees, and then you walk in our hooch, it was like freezing. Yeah, it was awesome. But uh yeah. Um what else?

SPEAKER_01 11:51

The uh you got any uh specific stories about uh any of the guys that pop into your head? Whether uh I mean an odd one, funny one.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

I mean the good thing about the the young guys that we had was they were I don't know how about about your guys, but like the new guy the new guys that we got were all machine gunners for the most part, and those guys were crazier than dog shit also, so they'd helped out a lot, you know what I mean. Um Gordon Gordon, Kelly, Pepper, um the only one that of course y'all know of that uh Campos, he uh didn't he didn't have I don't know what happened exactly. I I guess um his spiritual beliefs um kind of I don't know I I don't want to say too much, but it it he didn't last with us very long. And then uh I guess he got moved to uh headquarters um doing stuff there. Uh of course when Sergeant Condi was uh killed, we ended up getting Ryan, um, which was he Mark Ryan was from one one previously and then um Sakaki, of course Sakaki, can't forget about Sakaki. He's uh he ended up coming back coming on with us also um from doing his undercover work with uh yeah being a secret squirrel with ODA, yeah, yeah. Because I was like, dude, they get to do all the cool shit. They got beards and long hair, and they get to wear dresses and ghost parts. Yeah, yeah, that uh Mark Ryan, he was uh oh, I got a story about Mark. He uh as soon as he came with us, he was uh a 51. And I think he had a secondary as a machine gunner, and we put him on a gun. Um, you know how they have low power lines everywhere. Do you remember like when they the battalion said no more of the under armor shirts? Uh do you remember that?

SPEAKER_01 14:28

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I got about that.

SPEAKER_00 14:30

The reason there was no more of those under armor shirts is because Ryan on in those low power lines, he was behind the 50, and his barrel caught one of those lines and it singed him. Half of like some of his shirt got singed to his skin. Yeah. Oh no shit. Yes, because it ha I mean it's like 60% plastic or some shit, like the shirt itself. And uh they they that's why they passed the you know the rule, don't don't wear the underarm shirts anymore. Uh, because it let like it lit him up. And um he uh but yeah, he you know that he was only with us for like a maybe a couple of weeks when that happened.

SPEAKER_01 15:22

That's crazy. That did they didn't take him out of the fight though, right? No. Oh, okay. I thought I thought I remembered him sticking around. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:30

Yeah, he stuck around because I ended up talking him into going home because he was gonna stay and literally like just exchange over.

SPEAKER_02 15:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

But he I talked him into at least going home for I don't know if he actually did it or not, but I told him, you know, he needed to go home for like 10 and the 10 days that they were gonna give him or whatever. I think he I think he did end up going home for 10 days and then cross-tecked.

SPEAKER_03 15:58

I know he cross-decked. I didn't know if he went home or not. As far as I can remember, he just stayed, but you would know better than me.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

Well, I thought he did. I don't I don't really remember if he did or not. But I remember talking to him. I thought he did go home for a short period of time and then cross-decked. Because at that same time they were trying to get me to re enlist in country. And there's of course there's no way I was gonna re-enlist.

SPEAKER_03 16:29

Do you remember what it felt like coming home? Uh yeah.

New Guys, Close Calls, And Burns

SPEAKER_00 16:34

Um, it's uh I ended up come, I mean, we came back in October. I think I think um when we got back, I only took because they were gonna give us 30 days. We ended up what doing 30 days and then during Christmas doing another 30 days or something like that. Something I remember something crazy. But I shortened I ended up shortening my leave because I got out before a lot of guys got back because I got out January 6, 2005. Um and it was like I didn't know what the hell I was gonna do when I got out. Um I should have uh I hope they have a better system in place for guys coming back from something like that because I was not prepared at all. And of course, back then instead of showing any kind of feelings or emotion, you just swallow them and it it came back to bite me over there for a little bit. But it it was hard for a long time.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

Did you go back to Nashville right away?

SPEAKER_00 17:57

Yeah, um actually lived in Nashville. Well, I no, let me take that back. So bought a house sight unseen while in Iraq. Okay. So bought a bought a house sight unseen while in Iraq. Um got out, um, got in the house, and it was like the 80-20 loan. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 18:28

Not not too soon after that is when the housing market like oh, I mean it was what 2009 when everything crashed. Eight, nine, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:39

Yeah, yeah. It was eight because I remember I I graduated college uh December of 07, and yeah, literally three weeks later, the entire economy took a dump.

SPEAKER_00 18:49

But the housing market happened, and we ended up moving into Nashville in an apartment. And yeah, started having babies, and yeah, things got things got real serious real fast. I was it was crazy. But those babies, you know, they saved my life back then, and so they're pretty awesome.

SPEAKER_03 19:17

Well, you're you're kind of talking about it. I don't necessarily if you don't want to talk about it, that's fine. I can always cut this out later. But do you want to talk a little about uh you said it was hard coming back and you swallowed your feelings. You want to talk a little about that now or no?

SPEAKER_00 19:32

Yeah, I mean I can talk about it. It's uh I mean it's it's uh it was a really rough road for me for a long for a long time because it was one I didn't have anybody to talk to. I mean, just like anybody else, like being a man and being a Marine, you know, you're supposed to, you know lace up your bootstraps and just carry on. And you're afraid to ask people what they're going through because you don't want to feel like you're weak. Um and it's the hardest the hardest thing is reaching out, and that I didn't for a long period of time. And uh I was in a dark, dark path for a very long time. And and of course, you knew me back then, so you know I was a heavy drinker anyway.

SPEAKER_03 20:22

Yeah. So we all were. Uh fucking everybody was, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:26

Yeah, but it It was uh it I mean I was at a nine when I was in the military and I was at like a 12 when I got out.

SPEAKER_03 20:36

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean that that's yeah that checks out. That's what I did too.

Coming Home And Falling Apart

SPEAKER_00 20:41

And then uh of course going to the VA, trying to go to the VA, and they I I really sometimes I believe that they try to kill you before they pay you anything. They're giving me plant of um knowing I was an alcoholic. So it was uh it was all like Dr. Cong. I mean, it was it was really bad there for a while. But um a lot of therapy, you know. Um ended up going to a rehab. I don't take any kind of med medications unless I absolutely have to. But um the one thing that I always ask the VA, if you're gonna give me something, or any doctor really, if you're gonna give me something, what's the exit plan? Because I'm not gonna take the rest of my life. We need to figure out the source instead of the a short-term solution. You know what I mean? So and you know, if any veteran ever, you know, listen to that listens to this, you know that there's people out there that care about you. And even if you don't know it, it's uh there's some crazy shit that everybody's been through. You know, everybody sees it through the different lens. So just reach out. I'll explain all you need is a phone call. I mean Kevin uh Sakaki, he's uh he's helped me out a lot. Actually, Juan Pacheco, if uh if I ever feel like doing something stupid, I call him and he's like, hey bitch, I'm on my way. So um, but yeah, it's you know my Rachel, my wife, he she's uh if you ever want to, you know, want to stay on the straight and narrow, marry a redneck woman. She will put you in it into shape real quick, and I love her, love her to death. And um, she's been on my side for you know, hell 13 years now. So and I've talked to her about it and talked to her about a lot of things that I wouldn't normally talk to or share with people. So and I'm I'm glad you guys are doing this for for what it's worth. It's uh my kids will listen to it, hopefully get kind of a different sense of what actually happened and everything, you know.

SPEAKER_03 23:12

Well, you're kind of getting there, so I'll I'll ask you this too. When you reflect on it now, now that it's been twenty almost twenty-two years, twenty-two years later, what does all this shit mean to you?

SPEAKER_00 23:24

Um what does it mean to me? I mean, one thing is uh it in the end, it's like the best and worst times with some of the best and worst times of your life. Um the friendships that I mean even with you guys, um, I haven't talked to you guys in 27 years, but I love you guys like none other. Um, and it's also made me realize that I can get through anything. You know, just keep just keep grinding. Don't and don't be a stubborn ass and not ask for help when you need it, you know. Because every once in a while you need somebody to want you true north again, you know what I mean? So um I've uh I've gotten lucky, you know, in the construction business and doing demolition from an O351 assaultment uh doing demolition in the construction world. It's uh I've gotten really lucky and I've just cap at it, you know. You know, it's uh a lot of work getting to where I was.

SPEAKER_03 24:31

It's good, man. It seems like you're doing the right thing. I mean, obviously, I I don't know for sure, but uh you sure look good.

SPEAKER_00 24:37

So oh thanks, sweetheart.

SPEAKER_03 24:39

Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_02 24:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:44

The uh yeah, I've uh weaned myself from whiskey. That's the biggest thing.

SPEAKER_03 24:51

Yeah, I would never tell anybody not to drink, uh, but I will say it can take a hold of you and fuck you up real easy, and that's what happened to a lot of us.

SPEAKER_02 25:00

Yeah.

Rehab, Brotherhood, And Hope

SPEAKER_00 25:08

Yeah, I forgot all about the javelin shot. I was uh I was thinking about it, I was like, oh man, the Oliver North javelin shot, the lionesses, uh I mean, all that was uh really, really cool. The uh diet like chomping at the bit to shoot the javelin, and uh we finally got the okay from uh uh what was the uh Drake. Um was it what what was he? He was like the uh head weapons guy or whatever. And yeah, the we had the they taught us that it was a VBID right outside of combat outpost. And uh Drake gave us the okay to go ahead and shoot it with a javelin. I grabbed that son of a bitch as quickly as possible. Uh pretty much took it away from everybody else. I was like, I got this. I've been waiting four years for this. So I forgot what previously we ran into, but like it was parked right outside of combat outpost. And I actually got a video of Sergeant Lachard videotaping me shooting it, and I got the biggest grin on my face ever because that sucker that that the hood of the car shot up probably 50 something feet or more in the air, and uh it was just a crater in the ground. But uh yeah, but even before that, Drake told us to you know shoot it direct attack, that way it would blow out the backside and it wouldn't come back towards us. We did get some shrapnel. I heard uh Latham say the you know pieces of it fell behind us. We weren't that close, but uh uh it was the one of the biggest explosions. It was it was pretty cool. Um, and then of course Cox later on shot it from the bridge after they told him he could he could fire back, but they didn't tell him that he could fire back with a javelin. So I'm the actually the only one that actually got the okay to shoot the javelin. But yeah, it was it was pretty cool. Uh Sergeant Lechard, I think, was happier than I was. People that don't know Sergeant Lechard, he was a little little Frenchman from uh I don't remember exactly where he was from, but he was uh he spoke French and like short little black dude that wasn't just muscle bound as all get out. But he was he was super excited, and uh you can hear him in the background. But yeah, that was that was that was a pretty cool shot. Um only time I ever got to shoot it.

SPEAKER_03 27:41

I remember the video you guys were like, I don't know, it seemed like maybe four or five hundred yards away. Like you know, you were far enough, yeah. Close, close. I mean, you're talking about a V B ID, so you never really know what's inside the damn thing anyway.

SPEAKER_00 27:52

Right.

SPEAKER_03 27:53

But it was a pretty cool video, man, because you were sitting down like in the middle of the road to fire the fucking thing, which was uh uh unreal looking, right? Like you just push pause on combat. I'm gonna sit in the middle of the road, blow this fucking car up. It was cool.

SPEAKER_00 28:08

Yeah, yeah. The uh the Humvees were kind of we had like a Humvee blocking our backside, but I was like it was a pretty cool moment because uh that was the first javelin shot, you know, while we was there. And I don't know if they shot, I'm sure they shot one like during the invasion, but um idea, yeah, maybe. Yeah, yeah, but like I was like, I've been training for this thing since 2001. I'm I'm taking this.

SPEAKER_03 28:36

Well, yeah, and we always got told, like, I don't know what you were told, but I remember being told ridiculous numbers, like they were a hundred thousand dollars a missile or some crazy fucking money. Yeah, and so they're like, Oh shit, I'm gonna get to shoot one. Like, that's fucking crazy.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

Yeah, we had to hike with them the uh MS stars missile simulator rounds for god for years, and then you like, let me shoot this son of a bitch. Like, yeah, yeah. I I'm tired of hiking it. Let's let's shoot one finally. So um it was it was pretty awesome. That happened, and then uh of course Oliver North. I actually did a Oliver North interview with him. Um, I think it was me and Harden and a couple of other guys uh did interviews with them because that's when they were doing the weekly interviews for you know Fox News. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, the war stories program, but it was uh it was pretty cool. The uh he actually rode around with us and their camera guy. The camera guy was awesome. Like I wish I had the raw footage of like from Fox or him personally of because he was with us a lot in a lot of those firefights. And I remember him like doing like the I turn around and the camera lenses right on my face, and I'm like lighting up a cigarette while in between shooting people, you know, and it was it was nuts. Like I can't believe he didn't have a weapon, you know. He was like literally downrange with us with a camera right beside us, and I'm like, that dude has some brass balls.

SPEAKER_03 30:22

Like, yep, and he didn't even have like true ballistic armor, he had like the the cop style body armor, he didn't even have like plates. His was like it was small arms, it would stop like a nine mil or something like that. It wasn't wasn't made for rifle rounds, so I don't yeah, he was a very uh interesting fella. He it from his story, he had been in every combat zone you can remember, like Kosovo and Somalia and all these different uh into Israel, all these different places. He was a real cool dude.

The Javelin Shot And War Stories

SPEAKER_00 30:53

Yeah, he was he was pretty awesome. Um, but yeah, I'll just I'll never forget he had the camera like on us. I think it was me and Latham, and we're like smoking cigarettes, like and then of course, like I saw the footage after getting out, like some of it, and it was some of our firefights right in front of the uh Saddam Mosque, jumping out of the vehicles. And uh I wish she I just wish I had those videos because it like there was some really crazy stuff that happened that I'd like to remember, you know what I mean? Yeah, because I don't never forget the first time ever kicking the door open and shooting while the vehicle's moving, like straight up gangster type shit. I'm like, like uh oh well that I've actually done a drive-by, you know what I mean? It's funny. Yeah, it's it's pretty crazy. Um and then um what else? Oh yeah, the lioness. Um we had them on a couple of raids, and on the I believe on the 10th we had them with us uh during the bug hunt to help pat down the females uh out there, and they were chomping at the bit to shoot something. They didn't care what, at least uh fire their weapons. And it was uh I mean they helped out a lot, especially with pat down because the of course, you know, the if you ever I don't know if you had them with you, but the females it there was we didn't want to agitate them any more than there are already were, you know what I mean? So it was uh so it was like they they helped out a lot because you know you don't want to piss them off even more than they already are, so they helped pack down everybody. And there was a couple of times that Latham took like I think there was like three of them. It was him and three female line S's that uh were up on a like a higher point. He let them go ahead and start shooting every um and yeah, they were after that that we never really saw them again because I guess they were in too much danger or something. I don't know. But like they were from like admin or like cooks or something like that.

SPEAKER_03 33:20

Yeah, it was uh it was I never asked them their MOSs, it was a weird mix though, and they definitely weren't they weren't even related to combat arms, right? They weren't pilots or artillery or anything, you know. They were they were yeah, they were all like desk jobs, as far as I knew. But uh I don't know why they stopped riding with us. You're right, they were there for some of the bigger raids for the bug hunts, but even in the later ops, like uh Operation Traveler was when we were looking for Zarkawi and all that big, and that was a pretty big op too. They weren't with us, yeah. And we ended up just sectioning off the females into a different house. Like there was no we didn't even have female support to search them. So right, yeah. I don't know. I don't know what I don't know what the reasoning was behind it. Hopefully, somebody uh smarter than me will come on and tell me.

SPEAKER_00 34:05

Yeah, because uh I mean, like seriously, like after they got we let them be part of that firefight, it was like kind of like they kind of pulled the reins on them. It was kind of crazy.

SPEAKER_03 34:18

Yeah, I wonder if that was yeah, might have been. They only rode with us, I think, one time out of all of it. And uh, I know they rode with uh the 81s a few times, but yeah, that was it.

SPEAKER_00 34:29

Yeah, yeah, besides uh you know the translators and the lawnesses, it was just us 99% of the time. You know, we had you know XO or Weiler every once in a while, but not a lot.

SPEAKER_03 34:44

Yeah, we took the CO a bunch. We had the XO only one time, and we took the battalion CO a few times, but uh I think that was more you guys had them a whole lot. I know, because you went to the government government center a whole lot more than I mean we were there a lot, but not as much as you were.

SPEAKER_00 34:59

Yeah, it and a lot of the times I feel like like headquarters had their like one of their own trucks, maybe. Do you remember that? Yeah, so headquarters had their own truck, and we just pulled convoy like kind of like security for them, uh going to and from. Yeah. Um and uh him and the Sergeant Major, and yeah, it was uh we did their that's when I found out about Triple Canopy and all those guys, and of course the yeah, um that was right you know after the Blackwater guys got strung up in Fallujah and stuff like that with the and all that good stuff, all that stuff. It was uh that time was nuts because I remember Gunny Maraki. I don't know if he was there. I I don't remember how it happened, but like there was like only a few of us at Hurricane Point, but Meraki was there and we were loading up to actually go out to Fallujah to get the guys because it was what three or three guys from Blackwater? It was three, yeah. Yeah, because we saw it on Al Jazeera and we were we were wanting to go get them, but we got we were told to stand down.

SPEAKER_03 36:16

Yeah, it was a it was a real weird time frame because there wasn't any real intel of what was going on. But in our like in our AO, that was when the that was the the day before that happened was the first time that the translators told us that they were calling for the killing of Americans from the mosque called like call to prayer in the towers. They hadn't done that, they hadn't done that before. And then right after that was the the contractors were killed, we all saw it on the news, and then right directly that night, Morris was killed from our platoon, and then the Battle of Ramadi kicked off the next day, like it was like all right in a row, right now.

SPEAKER_00 37:02

What day was Morris killed?

SPEAKER_03 37:05

He was wounded on the fourth, uh, officially killed April 5th.

Lioness Teams And Big Raids

SPEAKER_00 37:09

Okay, so the fourth is we got in a fire fight, I think, going to support you guys on the fourth, because I remember the fourth being is pretty significant, like contact.

SPEAKER_03 37:22

Okay, I mean there was a bunch of contact that day. It might have been to support us. There was also an army convoy that got uh in heavy contact just north of the city, too. It could have been either one of those.

SPEAKER_00 37:32

Yeah, there's just so much the in April.

SPEAKER_03 37:35

Yeah, it is. It all blurs together.

SPEAKER_00 37:38

Yeah, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:40

Is there anything we didn't cover that you want to go over that I uh that I missed?

SPEAKER_00 37:44

I don't think so.

SPEAKER_03 37:45

Well, I told everybody the same thing, dude. Uh, if you ever want to come back and do this again, you think of something, you hear somebody else say some shit, and you're like, nah, that's not exactly right. Or you're like, no, I got so I can add my part to that because now I've you've reminded me of something. Reach out, reach out, dude. We'll uh we'll do this again.

SPEAKER_00 38:01

All right, man.

SPEAKER_03 38:02

I'm really glad to see you, bro, and I'm glad you're doing so well. And tell your wife thanks for fixing your old man problems.

SPEAKER_00 38:08

Thanks, bro.

SPEAKER_03 38:11

Uh all right, dude. We'll talk at you later.

SPEAKER_01 38:14

All right, see ya.

unknown 38:14

See you.

SPEAKER_01 38:15

See you later, buddy. If you like what you heard, make sure you subscribe for future episodes on your favorite podcast service.