The Fuchsia Feather - Kyle Mader (part 2 of 3)

Part two with Kyle Mader: gear that mattered, raids that tested nerve, and the twin blasts that changed the platoon. Between a Gunny tossing back a grenade and Oliver North linking the city to Hue, the story moves from gallows humor to loss without losing the thread of what kept people alive.

• ACOGs proving their worth under fire
• Operation County Fair
• Lioness program origins
• Bug Hunt rooftop contacts
• Oliver North’s urban warfare lens and Vietnam parallels
• Chow hall rules
• May 1st IED with a concussion, shrapnel, and chaos management
• Casualty reporting gaps and family notification strain
• May 12 IED detailed account of the aftermath and Savage's death

If you like what you've heard this is a multi part episode make sure you listen to the rest of the story

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Transcript

Picking Up Part Two With Kyle Mater

SPEAKER_01 0:34

This is part two of our interview with Kyle Mater from Rainmaker Platoon.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

But I remember so after like the 6th, 7th, and 10th was all done, I it was some general on I think they said it was the Mef, the Mef commander. I can't remember. But he he was came to Hurricane Point at the uh battalion headquarters palace, and they got everyone from the whole battalion who was still there, not wounded or uh or killed, came and sat in the conference room and he came in and was like, the general was like, no shit, gents. I want to know this about this ACOG. Is it is it legit? And we it was like crickets for a second, and finally someone's like, thing kicks ass, you know. So everyone around and was like telling stories about the ACOG and stuff and how great it was. And then I remember telling them like because they gave us those PBS 14s initially to put on mount on the rifle. Yeah. No one, I don't think anyone did that. And we were like, it's stupid, it's a good idea to have the ACOG gunners with the PVS 14, because then you can still, you know, use it. But having mounted it to the rifle, it's because then you have your only night vision you have is looking through your, you know, down the rifle. So I mean, I don't I don't think anyone mounted their rifle, but it was kind of cool going in there talking to the I think a three-star general or something. Um someone said it was Mattis. I don't know if that's true or not. I honestly can't remember. But uh yeah, it was kind of interesting because all of a sudden the general walked in, we're like, what the fuck? But yeah, he we talked to him for a little bit about the ACOG and how great it was, and then it started, you know, shortly thereafter trickling in, everyone getting ACOGs. So I think that might have something to do with it. But now I think that's just like every rifle has them now, don't they?

SPEAKER_00 2:14

Yeah, it is. Yeah, they even that's even in boot camp. They don't do I think my understanding, my understanding is they don't even do iron sights in boot camp anymore.

SPEAKER_02 2:22

No shit. Oh, interesting. That's my understanding. That's good. That thing was awesome. I love that thing. But um, yeah, I think then so after the seventh, I think didn't we do like we did like a big operation on like the ninth or something, didn't we? But nothing happened.

Operation County Fair And Psyops Soundtrack

SPEAKER_01 2:40

The eighth was Operation County Fair. It was another County Fair, yeah. Pretty good sized cordon and search. Uh yeah, not not significant contact, but what we did find was a ton of field hospitals and medical supplies that the insurgents were using to patch up their dudes. And a bunch of and a bunch of dead guys.

SPEAKER_02 2:57

Yeah. Oh no, sorry, I'm thinking it's something that happened on the 10th, not the 7th. But yeah, that's right. Uh, we you know what? We went to the hospital, that big hospital, um, with the battalion, I think one of the battalion surgeons or whatever, and then some corpsmen, some corpsman that never left the base, because I remember he had his nine-mil pistol out and he was shaking in the back of the Humvee driving to the hospital. But I remember getting there, and there's this like bodies laid out in like the parking lot or whatever at the hospital. So, like I there had to be more than 500 or 600 that were killed, dead bodies everywhere.

unknown 3:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

Well, even the number of just even less the number of guys killed, even the numbers that they say were like against us, like what the size of the force was that came up against us, it I swear to god, it's higher. Very, very low. Like they like they they they're only saying it's like like 2,000 or 1,500. I don't remember what what they're saying, but it has way more than that.

SPEAKER_02 3:56

That was yeah, that was there had been way more than that. But yeah, that Coney Fair, I remember uh the Psyops guys playing some music I don't remember exactly. But that was that was kind of funny. But yeah, I remember nothing really happened that day.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

They started with Drowning Pool, it was Let the Bodies Hit the Floor. Yes, right after that, spooky as shit, you hear the bells going off of uh Slayer, Rain and Blood. It was those two songs.

Lioness Program Origins And Controversy

SPEAKER_02 4:25

Uh yeah, yeah. I don't remember too much from the county fair except for some lady giving us the bread. That was kind of kind of it was pretty because it came right out of that little the big pot that they cook it in along the walls of it or whatever. She pulled a whole bunch out and gave it to us. That was pretty good. But and then the tenth was Bug Hunt, right? Yep. Yeah, so I remember I remember we went up because we went out with the army on that one. That's right, because we had two lioness with us. Um, a staff sergeant and then I think a specialist. And this is where I kind of disagree with that guy's book, uh, what's his Greg Zarroyo or whatever. Yeah. We had that well, one of I I just to say face, one of them wasn't not that great, in my opinion. Because I remember like at the end of the 10th, we were doing like vehicle checkpoints, and I was up on a roof doing security with her, and she was she made a chair out of bricks and then fell asleep, and I threw a brick at her to wake her up. Also, we didn't really let him out of the Humbies either too much. What what had happened for Arplatoon or in Rainmaker?

SPEAKER_00 5:31

If if it's the same staff sergeant, she was solid all the way through. We rotated through there was a handful that filtered out, like they they they wanted to do it, it wasn't for them for a variety of different reasons. Um but then towards the middle, like May-ish, the ones that we were grabbing were I always found them to be exemplary. Um so for for for what they were being asked to do.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

I just recently got a little bit of a little bit of a deep dive from some of the information about them. There was two specifically that came out with us numerous times and were interested in coming out. And one of them was that uh I thought she was a sergeant, but maybe she was a staff sergeant.

SPEAKER_02 6:14

There was one definitely a staff sergeant. Remember her being pretty good. Yeah, but the other one, I remember when we picked him up from Junction City, she loaded the magazine in backwards into the case.

SPEAKER_01 6:23

Yeah, so there was they what they had done is they just kind of went around and got people and and they weren't they weren't MPs necessarily, they weren't any they didn't really have a lot of combat training.

SPEAKER_02 6:35

Yeah, because I think that staff sergeant she worked on like the tracks on like some tracked vehicle, I remember her saying.

SPEAKER_01 6:41

Right. And so interestingly, this whole idea and program was just sort of a brainchild of one of the base commanders that had talked to another marine commander, and they made up this idea on their own that this was okay to do. They had not passed it up the chain of command, no one higher than them knew what was going on. Okay, so they came out with us May or whatever, late April, yeah, May, June, and then they disappeared. They disappeared because higher command finally found out and was like, this is illegal, you can't do this. And and they actually like it was a big it was actually a huge problem. And I didn't know that, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so that's why that's why they but it's also why they rotated so many different people because they didn't know who would even work. They they were just grabbing folks and being like, Oh, maybe you can do it, maybe you can't. And so they got a kind of a rotating group of it was like six or eight of different different people.

SPEAKER_00 7:38

That that explains a lot, then. Yeah, yeah. That staff sergeant was solid, though.

Bug Hunt: Raids, Illumination, And Rooftop Contact

Close Calls, Grenades, And The Field Push

The Makeshift Hospital And Captured Fighters

SPEAKER_02 7:44

She she was yeah, she was pretty good, I remember. Uh, I'll just never forget it was well, I'll get to that in a second, because it was on the on the 10th. But so we went out with like there's a lot of army out there, like armor, I remember on the 10th. So that was a pretty well planned out operation on paper at least. But uh, so I remember we hit some houses because we did a raid, we did a couple raids on a couple houses, at least Rainmaker did. I can't speak for everyone else. And then we hit a couple houses, and then uh I remember the army, their artillery putting up like a perfect circle of illuminars over over the top of us. And a c there was like a couple perfect circles, if I remember right. I was like, that was kind of cool. But yeah, I remember we did a couple raids, and then as the sun started coming up, then you know, someone was getting I don't remember who, but some Marines were getting engaged, and then we uh I think we did like a movement of contact or something, but it was like it's one of the scariest feelings I ever had was not like being in a firefight, but moving towards one, knowing that at any second now I'm gonna either get shot at or start shooting. That was the most nerve-wracking thing that I think I ever was. Well, I mean, I talked to other guys who were in Iraq, and you always have this weird weight on your shoulders the whole time. But the knowing you're about to be in a firefight, you're just moving towards it, it was the most nerve-wracking experience for me, the the whole deployment. Um or or got ever. But I remember we're moving down the street in the Humvees, and then eventually we dismount, and I think the front of our Humvees got engaged somewhere, or someone we were linking up with someone who's already engaged. I remember those line nestles jumping out, and uh Leighton screamed at him to stay the stay the fuck in the Humbies. He would he wouldn't let him out of the Humvees because I think Leighton was the like second section leader, or not section, uh second squad because Sergeant G was first squad, and I think Leighton was second squad. Yeah, we dismounted, and I you know, I have no idea where we were. I know we were it was Sophia area, right? Yes, so somewhere over there. And I remember we moved up and I think we we got engaged for a little bit, and oh man, it's it's tough to remember exactly what order some of it goes in. But I remember for the most part that day we were so yes, okay, we got engaged a little bit, and I remember I was holding down and I can't remember if that was when Sergeant Major was with us or before. So I remember like like Ackles was saying, me and him ran with Sergeant Major for a little bit. I can't remember if that was before or after. Anyways, but I remember engaging down some road, and I think I was with Gunny, I think it was Gunny Mararki. All of a sudden a grenade comes at us, and we both duck around the corner, and then he goes out there, uh, picked it up, pulled the pin, threw it back. And I'm almost positive it was Gunny Mararki. Uh fuck, I can't remember. Sounds like a gunny story. That's very much a Gunny Maraki move. But so I he he left and I'm holding down this road, and I didn't realize that first squad had moved out, and I'm still covering down this road, and then I look, all of a sudden I look, and all the first squad's gone. I'm like, oh shit. So I ran over to Leighton, or maybe been a ponte, and I'm like, hey, where did first squad go? Like, they went that way. I'm like, shit. So I'm about to run up, and they're like, no, no, just stay with stay with us. So what we did was uh we ended up kicking down doors, and we'd like a couple guys would rush to the roof as quick as possible, and then the other guys would clear the house. And I remember at one, oh, this was definitely later in the day, because before that we were moving up the street with some other Marines and uh Yeah, okay. So earlier in the morning, we were moving down the street. Uh, that was a pretty decent gunfight we were in there. That was with Sergeant Major. So I remember he comes running up with his M14 and he goes, I'm going this way, gents. And Sergeant G, Sergeant Garcia looks at me and Ackles, like, hey, go with Sergeant Major. So we ran off with him. And I remember they're trying to get Bastard Six, the battalion commander, was trying to find Sergeant Major later on. And eventually I think Lieutenant Dobb or Captain Wilder is like, Yeah, he's with some of our guys over this way, or something like that. But yeah, anyway, so later on, I'm with uh second squad. And uh um sorry, I'm with second squad, and we were like kind of like leapfrogging house to house, going up to rooftop, uh rooftop to rooftop, and uh we go up to this one rooftop, and across the way is like another house, and then there's the road, and then there's a field, and and then the river. And I was the first one to the top of the roof, and I just ran up there, get my rifle on the on the ledge, and these two dudes come around this corner of this wall, and I'm a little out of breath. I should have another one I regret. I should have taken like a split second or two more just to catch my breath and aim in because these dudes both had AKs and I popped around off quick and it hit this dude's head or hit the wall next an inch from this guy's head, and he jumped back, they jumped back around the corner, and I then I could see him in like on the other side of the wall. And I think I hooked a grenade over at him, but they were long, they were running, they were long gone. And I ah, I I always regret that one, just taking that extra second to just to calm down for a second, catch my breath, and I probably could have got both of them. But so we got up there, and I think it was on that rooftop that there was these two dudes in the field, and they didn't see us, and so I switched over to them, and I know I dropped the first one, and then everyone started setting up, and we just unloaded them into the field, and then we think they're dead. Then we start seeing like uh army, the APCs, and maybe a Bradley moving down the street in front of us, and then I saw a first squad, and I'm like, oh fuck, there's my squad. So we eventually went down and linked up with them. Luna thought I had been like got lost or was dead or something. He was all worried about me. Then we got online and we pushed into this field, and uh that Greg Zarroyo guy talks about it in his book, and he talks about Hodges taking this guy down. I'm not trying to call Hodges a liar or say that maybe you just remembered it different, but I'm almost positive it was me and Leilong that shot that guy that that popped up because he popped up and I mean he was like 10 feet away from me, and I was again on the on the far right, so I just ran at this guy as fast as I could and pulled the trigger. I wasn't even aiming, I was just pointing my rifle at that guy, and I thought it was me and Leilong. It could have been me and Hodges. I I could have been remembering it wrong. But I remember seeing like we had two engineers with us, and they went to the ground, and I thought that they were dead, but they all just dove to take to take cover. Um, I remember we ran up to this guy, and I got maybe I may or may not have pictures of him, but dude's got like 30 holes in him. Maybe 20. He was shot a ton of times. Like one arm is bent and twisted the the wrong way, his elbow's blown out, one of his legs is bent and twisted the wrong way. And the guy's like doing like the death shutter. And Captain Wyler came running up, and he's like trying to get on the radio call for a Medevac. And I'm looking at this guy, and I'm like, dude, this guy's shot you know six ways from Sunday. And I grabbed Wilder and I'm like, sir, look at him. He's fucking dead. And he's like, Yeah, I disregard all that. And then there was some other like one house or building there. Captain Wilder saw something, so he started shooting at the house. So we all start shooting at the house. Uh, I don't think we found anything in it. We found some debt cord, I'm I'm pretty sure. But then we got online and then pushed, kind of did that like like a door and then pushed through. And that's when we found uh some big brown house that was like a hospital. Because there was like I didn't go, I wasn't up on the top floor, but they found dudes like hiding in the top floor and like through a secret door. And I remember we pulled them all out. I remember I found a deep freezer, and I was remember opening the deep freezer and like sticking her head in in the in the deep freezer because it was to cool off.

SPEAKER_03 16:03

It felt good.

SPEAKER_02 16:06

I remember we pulled all these dudes out of this like makeshift hospital. I think Lieutenant that was when Lieutenant Dobbs shot someone. I'm pretty sure that's when Lieutenant Dobbs shot that guy. And then uh we brought that guy outside, and then some someone they I I thought we determined he was a doctor that was in this house, like doing a little makeshift field hospital for the fighters. And he was saying how like all these guys were shot by a helicopter. I'm like, get the fuck out. They wouldn't be like these are like rifle round holes, not helicopter bullets, you know, like they're no their arm would be gone or they'd be blown in half. But um he that doctor came running out to give something to this guy, Lieutenant Dobbshot, and we're like, no, no, no, you're good, and he's dead now. And the just the look on that doctor's face was like when we told him the guy was dead, it was I don't know. I got you know, I was only nine, I was a teenager still, so technically I was 19. So I didn't care care too much back then. But uh yeah, I remember we pulled all the bodies up to the street, and then there's some army APC that got in tagged by uh RPG at some point or a little before that, because it had like I got pictures of it too, because it's got the blast all over the side of the armor. Didn't hurt anyone, but I got pictures of that somewhere in my my photo album. But yeah, I don't remember what we did after. I think that was near the late afternoon by then. I think we just did like vehicle checkpoints for a while longer and then eventually I think we just went back to Hurricane Point, I'm pretty sure. But oh there was some van that we were moving, and it was oh I can't remember who it was. It was in one of the map platoons on on uh he was one of the gunners, but him and Savage lit some van up uh that had fighters coming in it. Oh shit, I totally forgot about this. We were moving before we hit that uh before I got separated from first squad, I think. We there was some like power plant over there.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 18:10

And I remember they had hit some IEDs like probably prematurely, and there was these big uh holes in the ground. And I remember moving up to and I remember Le Long and I jumping in these holes and engaging some dudes that were like running by the power plant. And then I think we thought they went inside because for definitely first squad went in the power plant and we cleared we cleared all of that. So we went down in the basement. I remember the basement being like it wasn't much of a basement because you had to crouch, but it was like and it was dirt floor and it was pitch black and there's a bunch of like pillars, and we just got online and like pushed down in the in the we had megalites. I think I had a mega light electrical tape to my rifle at the time. Um so that came in kind of handy. But I remember pushing through there that power plant. I think it was a power plant. You guys remember that at all?

SPEAKER_01 18:59

There were a couple of different power substations. I don't remember one specifically with a basement like that, but if it was it may have been the generating station that was uh in between Nova and the river.

Oliver North On Urban Combat And Vietnam Parallels

SPEAKER_02 19:09

Yeah, yeah, it may be, because it wasn't far from the river. Because I remember we scared the shit out of some guys that were inside working it. I just remember some guy sitting there with the coffee cup, with like a glass see-through coffee cup with his feet up. It might have been tea, I don't, I don't know. And we scared the shit out of that guy. But and I just remember seeming like this guy's just going about his daily job, and there's explosions and gunfire going on all around him.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

This is insane. Yep. Punching into his nine to five at the power plant. You guys are interrupting his break.

SPEAKER_02 19:38

Yeah. But yeah, then we just did vehicles, vehicle checkpoints for a while, and then uh I think we at the end of the day, we went back to Junction City, or we know we went to Combat Output for a little bit. So I remember there was one of the lionesses with one of the other platoons with telling war stories because she had she had shot someone. Remember, she walked around like like none of us had done it before, you know. Like she's the only one there who's ever shot someone. Like, calm down. I remember my first time too, you know. But I think we eventually brought them back to Junction City. I think we might have ate chow there too, if I remember right. And then we went back to back to Hurricane Point.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

Dude, and almost, I mean, I don't know about your platoon, but uh for our platoon, if there was any reason to go anywhere near Junction City, we were eating.

SPEAKER_02 20:21

Yeah, we did the same thing. We're gonna bob like going there for uh for chow. Anything was better than the shit we had at Hurricane Point. That shit was so fucking bad. I mean, we only got breakfast and dinner. Lunch was you figure it out with MREs or whatever. And I remember for dinner getting like white rice, burger patties, and those big hot dogs for like almost every meal. And then the only condiment for a while was thousand island dressing. I didn't eat thousand island dressing for years after that.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

That's right. That's right. That's right. Because I oh that's right. Uh oh, who was it? They were calling it um uh they were making they were calling it a Big Mac. Uh because they would put the ketchup in the Thousand Island together and be like, no, it's just like a Big Mac. Don't worry about it.

SPEAKER_02 21:09

Yeah, they didn't eat Thousand Island dressing for years, years after that. I still really don't care for it too much. Oh I mean, I think once in a while we got like it's either like chicken Kiev or chicken cor chicken cordon blue. We got on blue, yeah. A couple of times, and that was like oh my god, it was like Thanksgiving dinner.

SPEAKER_00 21:30

They had that often. Um, and I don't know if it was just depending on where the log train came from, but um blue diamond had the chicken card on blue really fairly fairly regular, at least in my memory. Like I remember running across it over there, so I don't know if it depended on where we were getting our child from or yeah, even Blue Diamond had a better child than we had. I mean not even in the same category.

SPEAKER_02 21:56

I I rarely went and got breakfast at at Hurricane Point because it was those tray rats, and it was like they cut you out a cube of egg and it was disgusting and watery. It was all that shit was so gross.

SPEAKER_00 22:09

I couldn't stand just covered up with Tabasco sauce and uh ketchup and just yeah.

Night Raids, Rangers, And Little Birds

SPEAKER_02 22:13

Well, throw it down your gullet. Do you remember we we switched chals? They built that new one for us at some point during the the deployment? Because we had the original one with the canvas. The canvas were that. Yeah, they built the new one closer to like the the Uh the palace. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So they I remember they they put a sign up on there, and I I'll never forget fucking Hodges. Um, the sign said, like, if you're not clean shaven and clean camis and something else, you will not be served. And Hodges in front of all these chalho workers points at it and in his loud voice goes, If this is what you're worried about on a combat deployment, you might be a pogue. And he said it so fucking loud. It was so funny. Well, I'll tell you, I grew up a hatred for the chalho workers while we were on on that deployment. Oh, I got a funny story. It was earlier on in the in the deployment. They took uh Gunny Maroc, he got a working party, and I don't know, I don't think he knew because he didn't know what it was for. He's like, you gotta go over to the chal. So it was like me and someone else from uh 81s, and then you know, one or two more from all other platoons. So we go over the chaw hall, there's some corporal in there. I don't remember who it was, but I just remember he had ears like dumbbells, they stuck out to the sides, like abnormally. It was a weird, it was interesting. But so we're like setting up the chow hall, and we're like unloading uh the log train or something came through. We're unloading stuff, and I'm like, where are all the child hall workers to do their job? And he goes, It's food service specialist or whatever their MOS is. I'm like, whatever, it's fucking Chow Hall workers, and he's like, They're on their rest time. I'm like, Fucking rest time, I'm like, what the fuck is so we unload this shit, and uh I I I was never really insubordinate to an NCO, but to that guy, I I definitely was. I'm like, this is fucking stupid. This is your job, not my job. And he got, you know, yelled at tried to yell at me, and I was like, dude, whatever, you're a fucking pogue. And uh so he's like, All right, the next log trim comes in at this time, you're gonna be setting up in servant chow. And I'm like, Yeah, I'm not doing that. And he goes, Hell, you're not. I'm like, hold on a second. So I went over, I went right to Gunny Maraki, and I'm like, Gunny, do you know what they got us doing over there? And so I told him, he goes, Mater, go back over there right now, get all the weapons company marines and get them back to your right now. We never did a working party for the chaler again after that. And then they would hoard the Gatorade that because Gatorade was like gold, if you remember. Oh, yeah. They would they hoarded the Gatorade. So we did a little night mission one night, went over to the the new Chal. And they just secured it with like 550 cord from the inside. So we cut it. We went and installed the Gatorade for the for the company, for our company. All the Gatorade. I think we were taking out cases of uh Dr. Uh the Coca-Cola and shit like that. We stole anything we could, we do, we just took because we were like, fuck those guys.

SPEAKER_01 25:19

That's awesome.

Chow Hall Politics, Scarce Gatorade, And Morale

SPEAKER_02 25:20

Oh man. And then uh God, I think someone else, I remember one of the child workers in that ATT phone center talking about a firefight that we were just in. Because I would I would call home if a Marine ever got not wounded, but if a Marine got killed from our battalion, I would call my mom or my dad and be like, hey, it's not me, you know, in case the word got back. Because in after the 6th, 7th, and 10th, my my my mom's side does like a family dinner once a month on a Sunday. And it was soon after that, like there's a thing on the news, like, you know, it was 14 or 15 Marines killed in Ramadi. So my uncles were like watching TV and they saw that and they're like, Isn't that where Kyle is? And they're like, Yeah. So they turned the TV off before my mom could see it. And I actually called home like I think that day or the next day, like, hey, just so you know, like, I'm fine, you know. But one of the challo workers was sitting next to me on the phone talking about a firefight I had just been in. I'm like, Motherfucker, I know you weren't out there. I'm like, this awesome shit like that. Uh, I just couldn't stand them. Couldn't stand them. But uh, and then that one night, uh, it was like later on in the deployment when we had uh um uh oh my god, um oh my god, the the Fox War guy, why uh Oliver North with us, yeah. And we got in some big firefight one day, and then at the at the end, we I think we had like the street, we had Michigan Route Michigan lined up with vehicles, army and us, and then uh we eventually just went back and Lieutenant Dobb was like Chaw's gonna be open for us when we get back because they had specific hours we had to eat at. And we get back, and I remember our my fire team was the first one to get like to get to the chau doors, and I'm like fucking locked. Like, what the fuck? And then it's pitch black out, and all of a sudden these two or three three dudes come around the corner, they're like, What's going on? I'm like, fucking doors locked, fuck Chaho workers, and didn't realize it was the battalion commander, it was the sergeant major, and it was all over north. Uh Colonel Kennedy told the Sergeant Major, go get all the Chaho workers right now. He, and by now there's more Marines from Weapons Company, you know, lining up to get in the for Chow. He had all the Chahaw workers and their platoon sergeant, that little short fat gunny, all lined up and screamed and yelled at him. They had that chal open so fucking quick. I mean, he berated them. Like these fighting marines are out here, you know, fighting all day long, and you're doing back here doing fuck all and they can't even open the chalk and feed them. Shit like that. Like your one job here, you know. Dude, he laid into him. He was, I'm like, right on, Colonel, right on. I was like, holy shit. And uh remember Oliver North sitting in there, uh, he ate and then he fell asleep almost immediately in his chair in the shawl.

SPEAKER_01 28:06

But I don't know how old he is, but uh I mean, he he had to have been in his 60s, right?

SPEAKER_00 28:12

I mean, he's not well he would have been so if you if you remember when he got famous for the first time uh in the 80s, he was in his 40s. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:25

So I mean he's still alive now. Is he a hundred?

SPEAKER_00 28:30

He was he was in his sixties, he was in his sixties and and then, and so now he's in his eighties. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:37

He I I never saw I heard rumors that uh he carried a grenade and a pistol on him. I never saw it, so I don't know if that was true or not. But tell you that dude is fearless because with that day with the chalk workers when we were out there shooting. I remember because he was riding, I think he was riding with us or was with us at some point, because he wrote with us for a little bit with Rainmaker a couple quite a few times.

SPEAKER_03 28:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:58

Uh he's just like, gents, I'm going this way, and just linked up with another platoon that was like a block down the road. And this camera guy is following him down the road. And it's like, holy shit, he's just gonna run down the street in the middle of a firefight.

SPEAKER_00 29:10

I don't remember which time it was, but he came in and uh this was early on. Um early on. And uh we he was riding in my truck, and so we had just gotten into it a little bit, and I can't remember we had gone back, we had gone back to Blue Diamond for some reason um with him, and we were that's where we were kind of maybe dropping him off. Maybe that's what it was going on. Anyways, the point of the story is that we were talking, and uh he said we said something about kind of like the intensity of it, and he was like, Oh no, this is he's like, this is like Vietnam, man. He was because if if I remember the story correctly, he was in Way City, like he fought in in that urban environment and kind of commenting on you know, we didn't the only time that we did urban combat between Korea and our time was basically Way City. That was the only instance in between, and so um he had kind of a soft spot for urban combat. Okay, because he had seen it and it was like, no, this is this is on you know, kind of this is unprecedented, and I think that's part of the reason why he was so enjoy it.

May 1 IED: Concussion, Chaos, And Recovery

SPEAKER_02 30:31

Did you guys go to that uh he kind of told his like life story one night at her hurricane point? And it was it was in the building which I think turned into the new chal. Yeah but because I went to that, that was interesting listening to him talk about his like life in the Marine Corps. That was that was pretty interesting. I was surprised I thought there'd be more dudes in there, but I remember it would be not not too many. But that was kind of cool listening him talk. That was uh yeah. Uh he came on a couple raids with us too, I remember. So I'll never forget one. My kev I had my Kevlar sitting on the hood of the Humvee with my night vision already on it, and it slid off, and the that little uh the little cap that keeps the batteries in broke. So I had to go with on night vision that night, and he's looked at me and goes, Oh, that sucks, or something like that. Fuck. I'm like, thanks. I wouldn't got a new one, and then I dummy correlated it to the the night vision, but yeah, I was like, fuck. Of course it happened right in front of fucking Oliver North. I was super embarrassed. That was the night we did something with Army Rangers, I remember. Because they had they had their um like uh I think they were like LAVs almost. They like these tan or brown LAVs.

SPEAKER_01 31:42

The strikers, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:43

Yeah, that could have been it.

SPEAKER_00 31:45

So if that's the if that's the same one, that's when we were uh that was a that was a really big raid. And uh that's also I was gonna while you're saying this while we were on the topic of Oliver North, I was gonna tell my favorite Oliver North story, which is in the short version of it, is after we had done the kick and we were doing all the guys, some of the special forces guys were inside the compound, and Ollie was given his like spiel and like they were getting B footage and stuff like that. And the special forces guys kept trying to get in the sh the camera shot, and uh North basebalmed the one out of the shot and was like, you didn't do shit. These Marines are the ones that are doing that did it all stop trying to grab their glory.

SPEAKER_02 32:32

And uh I remember doing a couple raids with special forces because there was one one of them where they landed little birds on uh on a roof on rooftops and they dismounted guys from the little birds.

SPEAKER_00 32:44

Oh, wait, I remember that. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 32:46

Yeah, I remember that one. I don't we I know we did at least forgot about that. We did we did a couple with with the special forces guys. I remember that because which was was weird because we were always the the the main assaulters or the entry team. I'm like, shouldn't these guys be doing it? Like they're special, you know, special forces like, but we're doing it, like, all right, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 33:06

I don't know how true it is, but I was told while we were over there that part of the reason why we were doing it is because at that point we were more experienced. Well, I mean, that makes sense. And so we had done more like we had just because I had asked that question. I was like, well, why are we why are we doing this for them when they're the ones that are supposed to be? And they're like, Well, at this point, you we have more experience. And so they were having us, and then we had a larger asset. I mean, it was yeah, yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_02 33:37

Did you guys put candy paint on for the night raids at all?

SPEAKER_00 33:40

Dude, we didn't because I never wanted it. They they tried to they the Gunny had talked to us about it the one time, and I remember very much pushing back. I was like, why? It's it is a bitch to get it off our faces.

SPEAKER_02 33:52

Like, what are we like we're not gonna We didn't have to, but we we did it because it scared the shit out of people. So we lost that's the only reason why we did it, because it scared the shit out of people.

SPEAKER_00 34:02

So I wanted nothing to do with trying to clean up afterwards.

SPEAKER_02 34:06

Cleaning cleaning it off was a bitch, but I like doing it because it scared the shit out of people. But that's the only reason why I hear it.

SPEAKER_01 34:14

A couple of guys in my platoon did. I never did. I had a ski mask. I would hold that. I had like a terrorist style ski mask that I would wear every once in a while.

SPEAKER_02 34:24

Um, so yeah, I would so I was in the I remember May 1st in the Humvee with uh with Hurley. I think obviously Dan Holm was driving, John Hurley was the gunner, uh, Fernandez was the Vegle commander, and then it was I think in the if the the back of the the Humvee. I think Luna was on the left closest to the gunner. I was in the back, back left, and then Accles. I thought there was someone else in the back too. I can't remember. I thought there was someone on Ackles side too, but I I could be wrong. Anyways, we were doing some patrol, I think we're doing a presence patrol over, and I had a written down, oh, it was called South Canal Road over by uh uh Snake Pit. I remember I had a sucker in my mouth, a blow pop, and it just gotten like pretty much done with it. And I leaned out the back of the Humvee and spit the stick out, and as soon as I sat up is when that the bomb went off. And I got I took shrapnel in my in my left hand from that one, but my night, my night vision darked out, and I flung backwards. And I remember sitting up and I could still kind of it's hard to remember. I remember Hurley tearing his, I turned my night vision back on and I turned my PEC two on, and then I just like started scanning the area, and I could I could hear yelling. And I looked over at Hurley, and through my night, my night vision, I could see him taking his helmet and his Kevlar off. I remember yelling to put it back on. And he's I remember said something about like going into shock. And then I could see like dark spots on his arm and on his face, which was obviously blood. And then uh I remember turning and and then kind of everything kind of slowed down. I remember like looking to the rear and seeing McNaughton run up with his because he was like uh some guys were like um camera, a combat aideman. They went to like some combat training.

SPEAKER_01 36:18

That was that was what the official title was, yeah.

Casualty Reporting Gaps And Family Calls

SPEAKER_02 36:20

Yeah, so I remember him running up with his little aid bag, and um then I I jumped out of the back of the Humvee and immediately fell back onto like like in a sitting position on the tailgate of the Humvee. And then like I was frozen, I couldn't move. Everything was in like slow motion, and I'm like looking for my rifle because McNaughton had taken my rifle away and I opened my flak jacket and was like checking me for any injuries. And I just remember I couldn't move, and then all of a sudden my head started pounding. Um, my eyes were hurting, and then I then this like noise in my the ringing in my ears kind of developed, and I could then I couldn't hear shit. And I just remember everything was in slow motion. I remember like trying to stand up, he kept pushing me back, and then at one point I did stand up and then fell right back down into that sitting position, but everything was in like slow motion, and then at one point I was like I was frozen, like I couldn't move. It was the weirdest, the weirdest thing ever. But I remember like my hand felt like it was on fire after taking the the shrapnel in there, and then um I remember seeing them getting home out of the front seat, and then I think Hurley was like walking, like walking wounded. And I don't remember a whole lot what they like if they loaded them up or how they got out of there, but all of a sudden they were gone, and I just remember thinking like we're sitting ducks here. Then I started coming back too, and I was like, okay, still my ears are ringing like a like crazy, but I could like move around and like everything was like normal speed again, you know. And then it was you guys, right? In map map two that came out. Yeah. Who is your lieutenant? Lieutenant Stevens. Stevens, okay. I remember seeing him out there, uh, and he's trying to talk to me, and I'm like, can't fucking hear you. I think we kicked in a couple doors over there. I think we did a couple. So I remember I have a vivid memory of stickle kicking in a door and then going in with a couple other dudes. And then eventually, did we get a wrecker out there or did we tow it back?

SPEAKER_01 38:21

So we yeah, so we waited for a wrecker for a very long time and finally got word that the wrecker wouldn't come out, and we towed the vehicle out, if I remember correctly, with like a either we hit it was the shitty toe bar that we had welded together. Okay, and we never used it again because it never worked worth a shit. The next time we did that thing, we just did it with a toe strap. But I we had made a toe bar uh out of a design out of Gunny Marockey's head, I think. Probably when we were welding together armor, we had welded together a toe bar.

SPEAKER_02 38:54

Okay. Didn't I I have a vague memory of someone saying that the wrecker, whoever has got hit by an IED on the way out with it may have.

SPEAKER_01 39:02

That may have happened. I just remember waiting for it forever and there being power lines down, and I thought somebody was gonna get electrocuted to death. I remember that there was a giant building like next door, and I was like, if we start getting contact, this would be the perfect place to do it because they've got us dead to it, because they've got great plunging fire, but that was it. That was what I remember.

River Scans And Scout Swimmer Losses

SPEAKER_02 39:25

I remember after that going to back to Hurricane Point, going to BAS, and uh I think it was I can't remember if it was Doc Contreras or Doc Rakebrand, but they where all the shrapnel was in my hand, they like injected a needle into into it and did something. I don't know. That hurt almost as bad as taking the shrapnel, and then they pulled all the all the metal out of my out of my hand and out of my fingers. Um I think it was I think because oh yeah, I remember Accles had like a piece of metal like sticking in his forehead, and it didn't obviously didn't penetrate too far, but it was just sticking right, I'll never forget, sticking right in his forehead. And uh, yeah, so they brought me, him, and and Luna and oh and Fernandez to the BAS. And uh oh, there's something about that. I can't remember. Oh, yeah, I think they said I had a I had a concussion also.

SPEAKER_01 40:17

But I mean everything you're saying sounds like a concussion. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 40:21

Yeah, and I remember first Sergeant Mac made me use the iridium phone and call my mom because they're like, they're gonna contact your mom, so might as well just get ahead of it and uh let her know you're actually okay. So I remember I called her and said I was okay. It's funny because I called her on the like the ATT phone uh like a while later, and she's like, I just got a call from some marine captain saying, and and she got a letter in the mail from the regimental commander, and she said, This Marine captain said you're recovering nicely in the hospital. And I was like, I never went to the I mean I went to the aid station, but I never went to the hospital. She's like, I talked to him, he's not in the hospital, and he's like, the guy didn't know what to say. Right.

SPEAKER_01 41:01

They the information they got, so I I ended up talking to a it was one of our Marines that was in Cat Platoon who got hurt, and then somehow he got assigned to this detail where they they compiled the information to contact people. And I talked to him later, like when we got back, it it was terrible. The information they were getting was complete like game of telephone, none of it was accurate, they had no idea what was going on.

SPEAKER_02 41:29

So I think I think Luna, when he re-enlisted, he did that on his second enlistment.

SPEAKER_01 41:37

Oh, really? Yeah. I mean, I imagine again, this is one of those things where we were so early in the combat, there was no system in place. They were just using random Marines.

SPEAKER_02 41:48

Yeah.

May 12 IED: Savage Hit And Aftermath

SPEAKER_01 41:49

Who like again, this guy was one of the guys in Caplatoon who was who was hurt, he had broke his leg, and so he wasn't able to deploy. And so he was gathering information from whatever they sent him, and he was compiling these letters, and then the regimental command would send them out.

SPEAKER_02 42:04

Yeah, interesting, because they have my mom, because I got I ended up getting wounded the total of two times, so she got two letters, like both saying I was recovering nicely in the hospital when I never went to the hospital either time. But I mean, maybe they're maybe they're talking about like going to the BAS. I I don't know. Sure. But yeah, I have no idea. Yeah, I remember uh not too long after that being on guard week and being on one of the towers, and they're like, that was right when those Fox Company scout swimmers drowned. Yep. And they're like, hey, keep an eye out because this is what happened. We're like, oh, you gotta be shitting me. So we were always scanning the river with binoculars looking for like you know, marines in the water, which was awful. But I remember all this thinking, like, why the fuck would they swim to that island? Like, uh, but I mean no one knew how bad the river was, I guess, or the current. But that was kind of shitty. It was like it seemed like a waste to me.

SPEAKER_01 42:59

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 43:02

But yeah, then so May 12th, I think I got it written out as May 12th when we get when Savage got hit. Is that correct? Yeah. So in my journal, I I had written down that we were escorting some chic around from to different schools, and we were on our way back to Hurricane Point. And I remember we had like some Humvees down or something. So we had like less Humvees with Rainmaker than we normally did. So we had the our bench that we had down the middle of the Humvee was now uh switched facing, so that like it was me and Fernandez were sitting on the bench facing like towards the rear. And then we had Doc C in the Humvee, Luna, and Ackles. So we had like an extra person in there, and then Savage was on the 50 cal, and then Regal driving, and then Lieutenant Dobb was the Beagle commander, obviously. And then I think Ackles talked about his door had fallen off. So he just had that like uh blanket, the ballistic blanket there, which was I was like, oh my god, I'm glad that's not me. But I remember Savage had a huge problem with sitting on the armor on the side of the Humvee, and I always was yelling at him to sit down, just sit down and like, you know, hold the the um butterfly grip on the 50 cal. And I I regret not pushing harder that day because I remember telling him, like, dude, get off the armor, just sit on sit down. But he always wanted to sit up and you know, so he could see better. Um so when that when that IED went off, um, I was sitting facing to the rear. with Fernandez and I can't remember if I was on the left or the right side, but it doesn't really matter. I just remember like a black, a black cloud, and then like gray streaks going going through it. And then obviously Regal like he got hit and he must have hit the gas and like lost steering. So we went off the road down that drop off. I remember just getting bounced around in the back of the Humvee and then we were in one like one big pile. I remember like looking over and looking at Savage's face and he was I couldn't hear shit and he was mouthing something that I think someone said he was saying he was hit or something. And I, you know, and I got blood on me from him not realizing that and I'm like and I was all dazed. I remember I sat up with my legs straight out and I checked my legs and I'm like okay I think I'm good and then I blacked out. When I came to I was like 50 yards away from the Humvee soaking wet from my like my pretty much my waist down because there was like some mud patties or something there. And I was on some berm like holding security with my rifle off safe and I was like and I like and then then like I came to and I'm like how the fuck did I get here? No memory of jumping off the Humvee and running through the mud in the water and then sitting there. I remember looking back and I see first Sergeant Matt come trudging up the road with this shotgun and then I think Sergeant G was either right in front of him or right behind him. And I look then I look and I see Doc Contreras has Savage propped up and he's working on him and I see someone's walking Regelsberger up to the road because he was all fucked up. And then uh I eventually came came back to the Humvee and Luna had like I think a piece of shrapnel like gone across Luna's forehead and like because his whole face was covered in blood. Like he had blood in his eyes he couldn't see he was freaking out because he couldn't he thought he was I think he must have assumed he was blind or something because he had blood in his eyes and then they wrapped bands around him so he couldn't see anyways. And then uh remember seeing I can't remember I don't think I I was part of it but some dudes carried Savage up from like wherever the Humvee was up into up onto the road and then everything's a little hazy because like my bell got rung good on that one. I actually found out that I cracked a vertebrae in my spine years later I found found out at the VA and that it like it fused or something back together or something.

SPEAKER_01 46:56

I know somebody else who did that too and had to walk in the cane for two weeks. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:59

Oh god because I can't I can't bend backwards like a normal person. Like if I had to do the limbo I can't I can't do it like a normal person can apparently but uh anyways um yeah that that whole that after getting blown up it's all a little hazy because I remember you know by then like everyone I think they found a second IED if I remember right two over there. Because I remember we once they got Savage and Luna out of there and and Regal out of there um if I remember right Bowers was on a 240 or on a on a saw on uh one of the Humvees and Lieutenant Wells the company XO had sent them like sent them to with Savage and maybe the others I don't know and they're like don't stop for shit shoot at anything you need to get to combat outpost. I'm almost positive it was Bowers who's on a 240 just shooting it up all the whole way back to uh combat outpost yeah but um eventually once we got the wounded out of there we kind of across the street was like not saying a strip mall is in the it's little shops or something. And we were and I dude I remember being out of it and just like kicking indoors and going in and I think eventually they had Slettin with me to like as a Wrangler or something because I'm like I shouldn't have been there. Like I was so fucked up in the head I was walking around without a care in the world. And uh I think if I'd seen anyone I would have just started shooting at them. Luckily there's no one no one out and then when we got done there we went back on the other side of the road and they had us lined up to do another foot patrol and then I started getting dizzy. I remember looking at Sergeant Garcia and being like Sergeant G, man, I don't feel good. I'm dizzy as shit and he had me sit down in a Humvee and drink water and there was some lieutenant from weapons company who was like freaking out and I remember Sergeant Garcia having to like yell at him and then he was sitting in the same Humvee as me like calming down too. I don't remember who it was but he was like freaking out and I remember Sergeant G yelling at yelling at him. But I remember sitting there like I was like out of it until we like loaded back up to uh to go back to Hurricane Point. I don't remember anything else besides sit after that besides sitting in the Humvee. I don't remember the drive back to Hurricane Point. That one rung my bell pretty good and they I think I had another concussion from that one too.

SPEAKER_01 49:16

Well I was gonna say you just got hit by two giant explosions within about two weeks so I do remember something holy shit.

EOD, Second Device, And The News No One Wanted

Closing And Multi-Part Reminder

SPEAKER_02 49:23

So I think they found the second IED I'm almost positive they did because I remember we I think we had gotten no we didn't get word that Savage hadn't made it. But I remember because they sent Luna out uh obviously they sent Savage out in Regal and I remember it was like me, Fernandez Ackles been the three of us doing security while they called out EOD for that second ID and we just kind of sat there and it was like the most like somber like feeling just the three of us were kind of like we we didn't spread out we kind of just sat the three of us by next to each other and we're just like this fucking sucks. Like it's not I don't think any of us thought Savage was gonna pull through on that one because I remember him being pretty fucked up. Um god which was really really shitty um we just kind of sat there like we didn't really talk a whole lot and it just it was it was a weird feeling like we all knew because like Luna's wounded Savage was wounded Regal's wounded three dudes from our truck and we were just like dude this fucking sucks and we just kind of like sat there like watching our our area while they blew up the other uh IED it was weird and then I think soon after we went back to Hurricane Point I think I don't really remember and then they brought me and I think they brought Ackles or whoever else Rake Brandt came over and got us and brought us over to BAS and then we're in there because I like I was bleeding out of my ear because I had like a ruptured eardrum or something and I don't I don't remember like at some point I went like this to like put my hand in my ear and like blood on my hands. I'm like oh fuck and uh yeah we went back to BAS and then Ray Brandt like it was yeah it was me Fernandez and maybe Accles he like pulled us out to the back outside behind BAS at the battalion headquarters gave us all a cigarette and I'm like well this isn't good. And then he's then he told us like Savage didn't make it because everyone else I think staff sergeant cook talked to him at the Hooch's but we were still at BAS so Ray Brett came out and then he told us and that was like I don't know kick in the nuts when he told us that Savage didn't didn't make it but that kind of that really sucked. And it was it it sucked even more because then we went back into BAS and there's all these people that you know don't know what we just went through and have no idea they're joking around and it's just me Fernandez and Ackles like sitting there like in tears and no one has any idea what's going on except for Rape Brand, you know it was like I I just wanted to get out of there as quick as possible and go back to the platoon which because they you know and I didn't know that they had been told by uh Steph Sergeant Cook when we got back but yeah that yeah it sucked.

SPEAKER_00 52:05

If you like what you've heard this is a multi part episode make sure you listen to the rest of the story