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Constant Combat
This veteran-led podcast highlights the experiences of Weapons Company, 2nd Battalion, 4th Marines, starting with their harrowing 2004 deployment to Ramadi; a 9 month combat tour which resulted in the highest casualties in a single deployment - a deployment that most Americans have never heard about. Through candid conversations surrounding these events, the series also explores earlier experiences that shaped the Marines, emphasizing their grit, humor, and humanity while aiming to honor their stories authentically.
Constant Combat
The Fuchsia Feather - Kyle Mader (part 3 of 3)
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Part 3 closes with Kyle Mader's memory that unfolds in sharp scenes: near-miss IEDs, a pit of scorpions, hotel firefights, and the long ride home that finally let the breath out. He closes with a little barracks humor, and how talking always made the weight lighter for him.
• field injuries and improvised care, including acupuncture relief
• a scorpion scare
• sniper aftermath
• police stations bombed amid a fragile handover
• hotel firefight with Bradleys
• wild dogs, mortars, smoke pit rituals, and pig Latin humor
• leadership friction, communication failures, and fatal consequences
• leaving Ramadi and the feel of going home
• transition, therapy, and a clear view of stress versus disorder
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This is part three of our interview with Kyle Mater from Rainmaker Platoon.
SPEAKER_00But my back was so I think the next day Ackles talked about it. They went to like Baghdad or something. And uh my bell got rung. They wouldn't let me go with. So I think me and Fernandez stayed back. And um oh man, there's something about that. But yeah, so we we stayed back. I remember that. And uh, oh yeah, Gunny Muraki would walk by me and he'd say my name super, super quiet, and then until I could hear him. And then I gotcha. It only took three tries this time, or something like that.
SPEAKER_01Fucking Gunny. I love that dude so much.
Injuries And Field Acupuncture
SPEAKER_00Yeah, he was awesome. But uh trying to look at my notes, but thought I had something written down. No. No. Oh yeah, I remember what I was gonna say. Because I got my back was hurting a lot after getting going off the road. So that one uh uh doctor with the battalion, he did acupuncture. Yep. So I went over I went over to uh BAS and he did acupuncture on me once or once for sure, maybe twice. That actually kind of was kind of cool. I felt kind of good. I think I fell asleep both times while he was doing it, getting needles put in my back. But yeah, that was that was kind of cool, kind of interesting.
SPEAKER_01He did the he did the I got that done too because I got Oh really? Yeah, I got I got the same actually almost exactly the same issue as later on, probably had fractured a vertebrae or in my back and uh got pretty jacked up, still had a lot of issues. But I was uh when we first got back to mine, I did that with him after we had gotten back. But the reason why I went to him is my my back was so tight that it would crack my neck sometimes, like the muscles pulling down on my traps, it would crack my neck without me wanting to. Like it was just like just and then that release of my back was so endorphin level that it would make me kind of like pass out. I don't know if you remember this, but I would be like standing in formation and my neck would pop without me needing, and I'd just like kind of like slump over. I don't remember that. And so and so he did acupuncture, but if I like he just took a class on it. I don't think he was like fully like oh really yeah, he like took he took like a weekend, it was like a week, it was like a it was like a it was like a weekend class on like acupuncture points. And so he had me in like this, he had me in some random room laying on a laying on a bench with a uh a woolen blanket, and he stuck it into me and turned down the lights, and he was like, We're gonna warm up these needles, and he had like these little like hot sticks, yeah, that were like he was like holding it onto the needles. And I mean it to be fair, my it loosened shit up where I wasn't uh it felt good.
Observation Posts And Scorpion Scare
SPEAKER_00I remember it feeling pretty good. I remember being like super like uh lethargic afterwards, but well, yeah. I was just like going through my journal. I took I put some notes and stuff down. Like I remember I got some stuff down about because after you know, after a while we transitioned to like just doing OPs around the city for the most part, and then we do we'd still do the raids and stuff. Yeah, but I remember one night we were on an OP over by, I think was it called the arches? Yeah, kind of by kind of by the cemetery up there. Yeah, and they there was little divots kind of dug out, and we were sitting in one, and all of a sudden I had uh, it was uh Wallace was next to me, and he started like not yelling out, but like ah, he's like, Mater, come here, mater. And I looked, he's like, Something bit me. And there's little scorpions all over the place, like, oh shit. So like I was like stuck, I didn't know like I didn't know shit. And I thought like if he started running, it would make it worse. So I like ran down and got Doxy. And turns out he was he was fine if I remember right, but like a scorpion like pinched him or stung him or something like that. And that was uh I'll never forget that. I'm like, fuck the fucking scorpions. I remember I think we killed them all, if I remember right, but yeah, just doing those, doing those OPs, and then we set up on an OP when you guys went and picked up the warlock over in that same spot. And you guys, remember you guys got hit. I think it missed you guys got hit like two separate times before even leaving like Ramadi proper on Michigan. Because there was one, remember we went out to that one because we we all mug back up from our OP went there, and I think it missed all the Humbies, and then we went back to the OP, and then you guys took off, and you got hit again by a daisy chain one, but it missed all the Humbies. And uh I remember go then going over to there, and then you guys were like, Well, we're fine, so we're just you know continue on the mission, you know. But yeah, and then I think we went out there when those snipers got killed. We went out for that. Because I remember I remember going up to the roof after they brought the bodies down, and uh yeah, it was it was just a weird feeling, and then because we had to stay there forever because that army colonel, full colonel, came out for that one.
SPEAKER_01I then remember I think I think they pulled out a lot of people because Rainmaker, I don't remember what role Rainmaker was performing for that. I think it's just because because I think we must have been on like day taskable because Sledgehammer then took the bodies.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because remember you guys went to uh like TQ or wherever to bring in the bodies. But we might have actually escorted the army colonel out. We might have done that. I think I think that is what I think that might have been what we did because we just set up security, I'm I'm pretty sure the whole time. Yeah, I don't remember. I remember when going up to the roof too.
SPEAKER_01That was but I remember like there was a map. At least one other map went out too was out there.
SPEAKER_02We were out there, but we were securing Route Michigan. So it's we were we were away from the building.
SPEAKER_01Okay, yeah, I remember that was a yeah, there was quite a few people that went out for that or whatever.
SPEAKER_02I mean, but staff sergeant staff sergeant Coleman and Lieutenant Stevens went up into the building, but the rest of us just stayed out and okay.
SPEAKER_00Secure going up secured the street. But I remember there was one mission that Rainmaker and Sludgehammer did where we met up at Blue Diamond with two Marine Fulbird Colonels, and we sat around Blue Diamond for like it seemed like hours, and then the two colonels just wanted to drive around the city. I know, Blake, if you remember that at all.
SPEAKER_01I do. I was fucking I was fucking livid.
SPEAKER_00Livid. We all were because I don't know if you remember, but the city was like a ghost town that day. We're like any fucking second now, we're getting hit. I was the whole time. I thought we were getting hit the whole time, and then someone took a turn down some alley, and it was like there was barely enough room for the Humvees to go down, and I'm like, this is it, this is where we get hit, you know. And I couldn't believe nothing happened that day.
SPEAKER_01They were it, I was so mad because they uh that was it, that was it. They literally just wanted to join. They they they were in, they were they had come into Blue Diamond for some like meetup, yeah. And while there was like, hey, can we get a tour of the city?
IED Near-Misses And Sniper Aftermath
SPEAKER_00Oh man, everyone was so pissed. Like, you gotta be shit. Of course, I couldn't believe we didn't get hit. There was no one out in the city that day, thought for sure. And that was like I don't have nightmares about Iraq at all, but I I had one, and it was from that that mission driving down this. It was when we made that turn down the alley where I'm like, this is where we get hit. And in my dream or nightmare, bombs started blowing up, and as soon as they get to meet, I would, I would wake up. And I had that for like when I got home for like a week or two, and then just went away and never had a nightmare ever again. It was the only nightmare I ever had.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'll never be at that. Yeah, I uh there's there's I remember uh we've talked, I've talked about it. It was specifically the the number of times that we did escorts for people, like just like that, whether it was uh a high profile person or one of the reporters, I didn't mind with Oliver North. Yeah, um, but but that that's that's because it was a little bit more organic. But it was any time that we were doing it purely because they wanted the street cred or whatever.
SPEAKER_00That's what it seemed like.
SPEAKER_01I I I I remember quite a few, and I don't know if we were I don't know if Sledgehammer had more or if it was just just because it was mean so I'm remembering it, but I felt like we got tasked with that all the time. And those were like I was always so livid that they were asking us to do that shit because it was unnecessary danger, right? It would be a different story if that was like part of our larger mission, like we were going to be doing it anyways, and hey, come on, tag along. But when we were specifically asked to like tourism type bullshit.
SPEAKER_00Yep. I remember so I know I think someone had talked about it when that IP station got blown up.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I remember I think I had it written down that it was June 14th. Or no, sorry. Yeah. Nope. I'm thinking something different.
SPEAKER_02July 3rd was when the the police station got blown up that I know of. That's the one I have written down, but that doesn't mean there wasn't the ICDC got attacked a couple times too. So there's it's hard to say.
SPEAKER_00I got June 24th for the IP IP station getting blown up.
SPEAKER_02Okay, that's probably a different one. It could be a different one, it could be the same one. It might have got blown up twice.
Risky VIP Escorts And A Haunting Alley
SPEAKER_00Yeah, maybe, uh, or could have been two different ones. But uh no, so June 14th, I get we I remember we had escorted some I had some general to combat outpost with I think we were at headquarters company, and then golf company patrol got in a firefight. And I remember we went out to support them. I don't we didn't do too much shooting, maybe a little bit, but I'll never forget we were getting shot at, and there was this little, I don't know, it was like a little square brick thing that had water or something in it. And I I went on the backside of it and took cover. Well, on the backside of it was like standing shit water, and it was the only like the only cover I had because I got caught in that box. I remember standing in the shit water and shooting back, and it wasn't until like it was so gross. And the smells in Iraq were just different scents of shit all over. But once we got back to Hurricane Point, I like dumped bottles of water down my boots, but when I poured them out, the water is straight black. It was uh those boots were so I had to throw them in the burn pit after that, which those boots were ruined, just ruined. But funny story, I think Luna needed new boots or new a new uniform. So when we went over to supply to get me boots and him a un in a new uniform uh on the way back, we heard uh incoming mortars, and so I started to run and Luna for any kind of cover because we were like out in the middle of the open, and he's like, if you can hear it, it's not gonna hit you. And I remember yelling back at Luna, like, bullshit. I went to the closest piece of cover I could and dove and dove behind it. And those mortars had land, they landed in supply where we had because Luna started running after me, and they landed pretty much where we had just been standing, and I'll be like, I'm glad I'm glad we started running. But um, yeah, so I got June 24, and I could be wrong too. So remember, we were on day something, I don't know what it was. But remember, I was out in the smoke pit with Bowers, and we heard this huge explosion. So we went and like turned the radio on in the Humvee, and then I don't I don't think anyone in the battalion had figured out quite what it was because there was people talking about it on the radio, and then uh Lieutenant Dodd came over and uh he was like, Hey, we're gonna we're gonna go over. No, we escorted headquarters company to combat outpost, and then he and like a second later, he's like, We're just gonna go, they want us to drive around just to gauge the what the city's like because we couldn't figure out what that huge explosion was. So as we're driving, uh I think I'm but at that point now I was in the second Humvee, and then behind us was I think Calderone was driving, and I know Tebow was in that Humvee, I'm I'm pretty sure, but all of a sudden we passed this car, and then as soon as we passed it, fucking thing blew up. I remember like it was like flames across the road, flames like two stories high, and then I was I thought for sure that Calderone's Humvee got they were smoked. I'm like, they're all fucking dead. I was like, God damn it. Well, a second later, through like the smoke comes the Humvee. They thought we were all fucking dead. Well, we were thinking they were all dead. No one was dead, except for I mean someone got fucked up in a car, some Iraqi person got fucked up in a car that was just happening driving down the road. But the only one that got hurt was Sletin. He took a little piece of shrapnel in his earlobe, like maybe the size of a dime, maybe even smaller than that. I just remember he had a piece of metal sticking out of his out of his earlobe. Otherwise, we were I couldn't believe that that no one no one got hit on that one.
SPEAKER_01We got so lucky so many times. The amount of times that I can count of of those goddamn IEDs going off right between the trucks is absolutely insane.
SPEAKER_00It's crazy. But I remember eventually we made some turn and like there's like Iraqi fire trucks or whatever, and then we found the station blown up. And I mean it was like it was like rubble, just complete rubble. Yeah, and they're telling us people were buried inside there still, and we're like, oh shit. But there's so many people out. I think we were there. I have it written down that we were there for about an hour to two hours, and then we eventually left.
SPEAKER_01But the others, yeah, that was nuts to the end of middle middle June through early July, when we were uh you have to remember what we were trying to do, we were trying to hand off control over to the ICDC and the police and stuff like that. But in our infinite wisdom, when we were starting over that program, we forgot that officers and leadership requires time to build up. And so uh they they we we had basically a bunch of privates um for for them, and that there wasn't a good leadership, and so that kind of was imploding, but there was so many attacks on the on those on their compounds and their outposts, and that we were just reminded of uh the when the governor got that was when that is that's the time period that the governor of the Al Abanar province got kidnapped too. Yep, I remember that. I remember that. And so it was that was uh that was a transitional time for sure. Oh yeah.
Police Stations Bombed And City In Flux
SPEAKER_00So I think we started around then like get building up like observation posts all all all over the place. So I know I think golf company had the egg center op that got shot at like daily or something like that.
SPEAKER_01Yep. And then we had the library and uh yeah, that hotel too.
SPEAKER_00Because I have written down on uh July 21st there was a big firefight, big firefight day. Because that that was before the hotel OP. Because I remember we were I I I didn't write too much my journal on that, but I remember we were in firefights for a little bit that day, and then we ended up being like across the street from that hotel, and then all of a sudden we started getting shot at from the hotel, and it just happened to be at the same time when these Bradleys were coming by. So the Bradleys just stopped, turned their bushmasters, and then whipped that place up, as long as I as well as our 50 cals and marketings and whatever also lit it up. And then I think we were gonna go in and clear it, but then we got another mission and left, and then one of the other line companies went in and cleared the hotel, and and then eventually they moved the egg center OP to that hotel OP. So remember, we had to do security all night long while they did that, which I don't know if you ever saw them or remember, but the army had these trucks, kind of like a seven-ton, but the bed was longer, and that fucking thing had so many guns on it. There was there's the one in the turret on the cab of the truck, and then this flatbed truck had like every side had like a 50 cal, a 240, and like a Mark 19 on it. There were just guns. I don't remember that. Oh, yeah. Because they had two of those out there, and then when they started putting those barriers up at Hurricane Point, they had those trucks out there that night, too. Yeah, they were. I mean, there was so much firepower in that, in those uh little kind of they're kind of like a seven ton, but a little bit longer.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I don't remember those things either. Oh yeah, yeah. I remember seeing those. They were yeah. If they ever used them, I don't know, but those things were cool.
SPEAKER_01That'd be quite the gun truck for sure. Yeah, sure.
Hotel Firefight And Overwhelming Firepower
SPEAKER_00I mean, there was, yeah, there was like there had been like seven or eight total crew served weapons on that one truck. Wow, it was it was pretty cool. Uh those things, those things were I wouldn't mess with that thing, but yeah. And then yeah, so I got a couple other things. You know, I remember we got those combat replacements from 3-5 or 2-3-5. Yep. And then uh, because I think in Brainmaker we had Larson and Fox, and I think I can't remember who it was with anymore. It was either Larson or Fox, but him and I we realized we could both speak pig Latin, you know, that makeup language. Yeah, so and then I think we taught it to I think Bowers too. And there was it was either a week or like two weeks where we just agreed we're not gonna speak anything but pig Latin, except for like on a mission. So we went like 10 days just speaking pig Latin every single all day long. I no one knew what the fuck we were talking about with all unless it was like something work related. We just spoke pig Latin the whole time. Uh I'll never, I'll never forget that.
SPEAKER_02These are my favorite memories because most serious situation you could be in, your friends are dying, everybody's like the city's burning, you're starving, fucking shit sucks, your family thinks you're dead. What are you doing? Two weeks we're speaking pig Latin, motherfucker. Amazing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I thought that was funny. And then uh I've done a couple things that I remember that were that were pretty funny, like raiding the chalk for the Gatorade. Oh, yeah, there was one night we we so we had built that pretty nice smoke pit behind uh the Rainmaker and uh Sledgehammer uh hooches. There was one night we were back there smoking, and I were I think I can't remember if Leighton was a corporal or a sergeant by then, but we're sitting back there and he's got his headphones on and he's he's like kind of leaned back, smoking a cigarette, got his eyes closed, and we can hear the incoming mortars. So everyone else in the smoke pit, we all dive to the ground, and he must have felt something or someone moving or whatever, because he opened his eyes, he sees us all on the ground, and then he immediately dove to the ground. The fucking mortar, one of the mortars landed right behind the smoke pit, but it was a dud because we heard it, we all heard it impact into the berm, and we all came out looking for it and like, oh shit, it's fucking sticking out of the ground right there. And uh, I think EOD or someone came over and was like picked it up and brought it to that like UXO pit that they had by the front gate. I remember the look in Leighton's eyes when he saw us all on the ground, his eyes got real widened. I always thought that one was that one was pretty funny. Yeah, oh there is that one day, I think it was me and Minor went went and ate the breakfast for whatever reason. And that was when the North Bridge was getting either, I think, taking fire from that abandoned building that was kind of across the road. And we so we'd walked up to the behind the hooch to the berm, and just in time to see them fire a javelin off the north bridge into that. That was fucking cool to see. I'd never I don't if I'd seen a javelin fired, I don't I don't remember, but seeing that was fucking cool come off the bridge.
SPEAKER_02That was pretty cool. Almost never. All the javelin guys, I think I think out of all of them, only one of them had fired a training round one time. Like they were just weren't allowed to shoot them, they were so expensive.
Gallows Humor And Mortar Duds
SPEAKER_00So expensive, yeah. God. But I remember uh so when we built that smoke pit, we built like a bench on the backside of it, kind of at an angle. And I remember Bowers and I would spend quite a few nights sitting back there just bullshitting smoking cigarettes because I don't know if you remember like how clear the sky was in Iraq. Like you could see every fucking star in the sky, and the shooting stars were so clear, and there's so many of them. And we'd sit back there and just bullshit about home chain smoking cigarettes. Like we did that quite a few times uh at night. That was that was kind of cool. I remember doing that. But um, yeah, coming near the end, I remember when we were doing that left seat, right seat shit with the two five guys. Um I remember it was my team's turn to stay back. And but Weaver was our gunner on a mark, we had a Mark 19 in a uh, I think we were in a hardback, the one of the up armored Humvees at that time. And yes, we definitely were. And Weaver was the gunner for Hutch. And uh he had the like we had the tires on the spare tire on the back of the the Humvee and the hatch, and he had put his arm in there, and the tire, the the hatch came down and like smacked in his in his arm. So he didn't, they thought he broke his arm, so he didn't go out. So I volunteered to man the Mark 19 on that. I think we were escorting a log train and some two five guys to combat outpost. And that was when the the seven-ton, the water truck got hit and locked up the brakes or the type the the wheels locked up, so the wheels wouldn't turn. So I remember we were pushing and pulling the seven ton with seven tons, and we were going like five miles an hour, maybe through the the middle of the city. Yep. And I'm like, dude, we're gonna get hit. I fucking know it. So I racked the Mark 19. I don't remember like the conditions for the Mark 19, but I remember you had to rack it twice. Yep. So I racked it the second time to load that round. And then sure as shit, we got hit not too long after that. And remember we were kind of further to closer to combat outpost. And I think in the Humvee it was Luna was driving, Hutch was the vehicle commander. And I think Watkins and Sleton were in the back two seats, and I was on the on the Mark 19. And we were at some intersection kind of out of the middle of the city. And uh there were some two five guys, and I I found out later on, someone said they're they're their they're cook their childhood. Well, they're getting shot at from the right side. Well, they all took cover on the right side of the Humvee, and I'm like, they're getting fucking shot at from down there. So Hutch has Luna move the Humvee up, and also I'm like, there they are. There's some dudes behind cars. So I got to unload with the Mark 19. And my first couple rounds went high and blew up some like power things, sparks went flying everywhere. And then I kind of just walked the the Mark 19 rounds down the road all the way to uh behind these like two or three cars. And I'm I I went through that whole big ammo can of Mark 19.
SPEAKER_01Getting on target.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it was like I think what those big ones had like 32 rounds or 36 rounds in them.
SPEAKER_02Big cans were 48, the small cans were not a machine gunner, but I think they're 48. And the smaller cans were 30, 32, 36.
Last Missions And The Mark 19 Engagement
SPEAKER_00I went through that whole can. Yeah, there's nothing left of those dudes that were behind there. But I was like, I'm not a I wasn't a machine gunner either. Like I could I had a working knowledge of the Mark 19, but like if it went down, I won't know what I don't know if I would have figured it out. But uh luckily it didn't, and I just got got the gun back up and didn't have to shoot it anymore. But uh yeah, I went through the whole can of that's kind of cool. I won't I'll never forget that. But yeah, and then uh yeah, we left soon after that. I'm pretty sure. I think that might have been my last mission, I think. I'm almost positive that was the last one.
SPEAKER_02But and then soon after I was gonna say, what do you remember wrapping up and going to Junction City and then wrapping everything up?
SPEAKER_00And uh Yeah, I remember we did we had to turn in our ACOG, which I didn't like doing that because then I had iron sights, which I if it I'm sure the BZO was was still there because I didn't adjust the iron sights on the the front sight posts or the rear sight, but I mean the handle came off the rifle. Um I was surprised I still had that. But uh yeah, I remember loading up in the seven times. I got I got pictures of all of us like making hand signs and shit on the you know, before right before we left hurricane point. Uh those two five guys, man, though, they didn't know what they were getting into, I don't think. Because I remember doing a couple little foot patrols with them. And like, remember the upper humbies, the tan ones had that like gate you could put up on the on the window, it was supposed to like stop the RPG. Oh, yeah, that's right.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yep.
SPEAKER_00So there was this one sergeant, and I'm like, dude, you're gonna want to put that back up. He goes, No, we don't know. I'm like, you're gonna like here's and he and explain to him why. And he wouldn't do it, and I found out later on he was the one that got hit with the glass and that and got got killed. And I was like, that was I was in that truck when that happened. Oh, that's right. That's right. Yeah. Sergeant Hennil. Yeah. I'm oh I was like, dude, like it sounded like they just didn't listen to like what we the advice we would give them, uh, from what I was told.
SPEAKER_02But it it ended up being a two two-stage problem. Number one, their leadership when they were back in in Camp Pendleton, were called a bunch of cowboys. Yeah, we're told that what we were what we were doing was we were just running and gunning and shooting anything that moves, and they were gonna do it different. They were gonna they were gonna come and bring order to the city in a better way. And dude, I I I I can't blame them if that's what they were told. Yeah. Because because if I came and met us in the state that we were in by the time we left, I would have thought we were a bunch of wild animals too.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_02Realistically we were, because we had been in running combat every other day, every couple of days.
SPEAKER_00I can't remember if I ever was told how their their deployment there went, if it was similar to ours, or I I guess I I never found that out if it was everything's back down at all. I don't know if you guys know that at all.
SPEAKER_02It did not, it was still extremely active all through all through the winter, and then they split the city right at the end of their deployment into three or four pieces.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Oh, interesting.
SPEAKER_02And brought in other marine battalions and uh and an army.
SPEAKER_00Blake, do you remember there was a guy in 2-5 that had been in 81s on the Oki deployment? I think. Fuck, all tatted up. Um, Twig, to Twiliger? Oh, Twilliger.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I was just waiting for you to say it.
Handover, Departing Ramadi, And Going Home
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. He I remember seeing him. Twig, yeah. Yeah, I remember seeing him on one of one of our last days. Because he remember him telling us that like they wouldn't let him back in the Marines and I dude because of his tattoos, but they said he could join the reserves and go active there.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. That's exactly that's exactly it. Yeah, I was just gonna add to uh the second part of what Nylan was saying about part of the challenges and this specifically is what cost. I mean, I I was the only one that walked away from that truck. Um and what what had happened, and I to the the very condense this this little story, but they had trouble with like escalating communication. Like they there was like this barrier of of like a private telling the lieutenant something to do, and the lieutenant being like, Oh, legitimately, we need to do something about this. And they didn't, they were like, I don't know if they were afraid or what, but we were we were we kept getting into situations where we would be like, This is going to happen, we need to go. And like I was trying to say that to started to know. And he couldn't like tell the lieutenant to to do something different, like he was afraid to get on the on the inner squad box and say something. And and that happened over and over again. It was like, you like like tell them that this needs to happen, and they wouldn't listen. Or they were afraid, they were I mean, excuse me, they were afraid to like pass that information up or whatever. Yeah, and so that's actually what saved me is I finally was like, fuck it. And I reached around to go grab the the mic off of off of him and key and key it. And me wrapping my body around the side of the of the seat, I was behind the vehicle commander, and me wrapping my body around that allowed his whole body to absorb the RPG. Um, and uh it still fucked me up. I mean it knocked me out, kind of I think that's what fractured my one vertebrae. I still had shrapnel in my in my hand and my face and stuff like that, but yeah, yeah, that was yeah, but uh yeah, I remember going over to Junction City, they had us in those uh um I don't remember there was a name for it.
SPEAKER_00I can't remember what it was called. Those little hoochas that they had us in.
SPEAKER_01Oh, the ones that they uh yeah. I mean they're they weren't too bad.
SPEAKER_02I thought they were called the CB huts because the CBs built them. That's what that's uh I don't know what they were actually called, but that's what we called them.
Garrison Life, Promotions, And Pranks
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I can't remember. There wasn't because I had you know, I should have wrote wrote it down because I had it written down in my um uh my journal, but um I did uh find a picture of Blake, me, and you. I don't know if you can see it. I I think he must have jumped on me in my while I was laying in the rack doing something because I have a very surprised look on my face and uh that's that's fake surprise, sir.
SPEAKER_02You invited him into your bed. Oh, that's hilarious. That's awesome.
SPEAKER_00Well, yeah, because we were there for like a week or 10 days or something like that. And I remember uh I think all we had to do was at You guys were.
SPEAKER_01Oh, just that you guys were. We we came later.
SPEAKER_00We were only there for like two or three days, yeah. Yeah. I remember uh all we had to do was like once or twice a day was not even a formation, just get together and like show your serialized gear. And uh I remember I I was I lost track of time one day and I like on one of the very last days, and I wasn't there for one of them. So my punishment was I had to carry the seabag full of all the extra M16 A2s back all the way back to the States and then uh turn them into the the armory. Serialized gear. So a couple of us had compasses. Uh I mine went in my fucking little box and never left until I had to turn them in at the you know at the end. Luna kept his in his butt pack. Well, his butt pack came unzipped one day on a foot patrol earlier on in the deployment, and he lost it. Sergeant G made us go back out into the city and patrol around looking for his compass. We pretty much redid our whole foot patrol and uh we never found it. So yeah, we were like all pissed off because we were back at the hurricane point by then.
SPEAKER_03Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_00But yeah. But um, yeah. Um, I remember being back in Kuwait. I think someone got sunburned. They're like, no more suntanning, or that might have been back at Hurricane Point, one of the headquarters guys. I think they he fell asleep in the sun. But I think we weren't allowed to suntan either, if I remember right. Nope, for the same reason. Yeah, for the same reason. And then uh yeah, I think we we were there for however long at Junction City, and then we took the long seven-ton rides back to Al Assad Airbase, I think we flew out from correct, yeah. And that was weird. I think we our flight got delayed because the the base got mortared, if I remember right.
SPEAKER_02It was getting mortared as we drove up, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Then that combat takeoff on the C-130s out of uh out of there. That was that was like a wild roller coaster ride, but none of us gave a shit because we were I remember they had us jam-packed in these C-130s. I could barely move, and it was a short flight, but uh barely could move. I have I have a picture somewhere in there of like we've got our sea bags and packs all on on top of us, and like I can barely see over the top of the of the packs.
SPEAKER_02Yep.
Transition, Talking It Out, And Perspective
SPEAKER_00And then we went back to uh Camp Victory, and it was a I remember it being a oh, I remember when we landed, we got off, and we like there was nothing. We just remember at least for for us, we just laid down and everyone just went to sleep. And then uh some buses came and took us back to Camp Victory at some point, and then it was a ghost town there. There's like because when we remember when we were first there, there's thousands and thousands of Marines and soldiers and whoever else, and when we got back, there was like no one there.
SPEAKER_02I I I think, and I could be wrong, I think we went through a different camp because there's oh really, there's five big camps in Kuwait, and they had just built them all while we were on our deployment. And I think we went to one of the newer camps to a different one. But either way, that place was great because it had like a fucking pizza hut and a PX, and that and there was no one there, it was just us.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there's no one there. That was that was pretty awesome. Yeah, and then uh because we were only there for a couple days, if I remember right, weren't we? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's just for a hot second.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and then I don't know if you remember. So we went, do we fly out a biop the baked at international airport? I can't remember when we went home.
SPEAKER_02Like no, no, no, we flew out of out of Kuwait. Oh yeah, Kuwait, duh.
SPEAKER_00No shit.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was yeah, and that was at a that was a civilian airliner that we've got I remember because I I'll never I'll never forget.
SPEAKER_00Right before when we lined up for takeoff, right before the pilot fucking punched it, he got on the loudspeaker and said, Let's go home, and the whole fucking plane erupted, you know, in cheers and shit. Then he punched it right after he said it, and then we went to take off. I'll never forget that. That was like the greatest feeling ever when he said let's go home. Oh, that was crazy I get chills thinking about that. Yeah, that was that was pretty cool. I'll never forget that. And then uh I got like a picture of smoked my first cigarette at March Air Force Base, and Sergeant Sakaki's behind me, like pretending to punch me in the head, and I didn't know I did he was there. Yeah, that was good. And and then oh man, I remember when we got back and turned weapons in, and then I think because it was uh was it all of weapons company? We got back at this all at the same time, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They had Sergeant Garcia march us from the um the armory back up to the battalion uh the barracks. That was that was pretty cool. And then when Wyler dismissed us, that was a good feeling too. That was really because all those people were there, and then uh they had kegs of beer with these little mini um solo cups. And I'm like, why are these so fucking small? Well, because our tolerance was so low, it was gonna be didn't take many. I'm like, ooh, I got a little bit of a buzz already.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that was started drinking that day, and I don't think I stopped for about a month.
SPEAKER_00Well, so I we had before we deployed, there was uh we had that boot drop, and there was one guy, and I'm brain farting on his name. He went UA before we deployed because he didn't want to go to go to Iraq. His name was like Barker or Baker or something like that.
SPEAKER_01Oh wait, yeah.
Closing Thanks And Subscribe
SPEAKER_00He got caught while we were on deployment. And um I remember home and Worth were telling me that like they were kind of pimping him up before we were right before we came home. Like, these guys are gonna fuck you up. You miss a deployment, the combat deployment with them, they're gonna fuck you up. Right before he went home, he went UA again. He didn't he didn't get back to us until we were already on the next deployment in Okinawa. So they they caught him again and he he eventually came and stayed with us on that that that next deployment. Oh yeah, I think it was Barker Baker. I can't remember. Because that motherfucker, he was supposed to to a drive the Humvee down to the ships for to get him on ship. And be and when he wasn't there, I got woken up and had to go do it. I was so fucked. It was like on Saturday, it's like on Saturday, too. Of course, I was so fucking pissed. Like that motherfucker, I had to give up my whole Saturday. And I just got picked because I was the first person that someone saw. I was like going to I was going to the smoke print like Saturday morning, like, hey, get dressed. Guess what? You're going down to San Diego.
SPEAKER_01My this the story that I tell my kids all the time when they ask for like stories about the Marine Corps. One of the ones that I always tell is is on Saturday mornings when I was back when we were back in garrison, I would set my alarm for 7:30. No matter, even if I went out drinking the night uh on Friday night, I would set it for 7:30 and I would I would leave base and I wouldn't come back until 10 o'clock because I refused to get put on a working party. I would, I would, I would go literally lay on like the beach in San Clemente, just puking my guts out rather than do it back in my barracks just so I want to get put on a working party.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that oh god, yeah. I just had one more thing pop into my head. I remember there was one foot patrol and it was near the end of that appointment, and we I don't remember, I think it was just Rainmaker, I can't remember, but we dismounted, left the Humvees, and went through some part of like down the main part of Ramadi, like near the the government center somewhere. It was pitch black, no lights, had my night vision on. And I was I was walking point. We came up to like a intersection, and all out of nowhere came like a pack of dogs ran right across the front of me. And as soon as they came out of the into the intersection, they started howling. Scared. I must have jumped back 10 feet, scared the shit out of me. Just a whole pack of dogs, and then they were gone. It was the weirdest thing. Scared the shit out of me. I just I just thought of that. Remember that being kind of funny.
SPEAKER_02So I remember I think it was one of I think it was Wilbur, one of the interpreters, was telling us about the spiritual and cultural belief of like the so the people that lived up in the Sophia district had a had a different version of their religion than everybody else in the city. I don't know anything about it. I'm sure Blake knows. I'm sure Blake knows all this shit. Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure you do.
SPEAKER_01I'll refrain.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah. This this isn't a college course today. But anyway, they didn't keep dogs, is that's the short version. And so there were often packs of wild dogs that that some people had dogs, but they lived near this area, so you weren't allowed to keep them, so they would just feed them at the gate. But the dogs would band together in weird wild dog packs. Yeah, and there was a couple of times when we were out, and you know, firefights had gone long, long, long. Like you were talking about eight, 10, 12, 13 fucking hours. Yeah, we'd see the wild dogs come in and they'd start eating the bodies, and we were like, Oh fuck, we're fucked out, like the dogs are here. Like, yeah, dude.
SPEAKER_03I didn't see that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it was crazy. It was real crazy. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's funny looking back on like some of our tactics and whatever, it's like like not so much spray and well, to sometimes spray and prey, but like me being on the SWAT team right now, where I'm at, it's like we gotta be accountable for like every round we shoot, even if back then it's crazy. Like no one gave a shit. Like you shot a million rounds that way, like we're not gonna go look and see what we hit. It's like no one gives a shit. And now it's like if you know if we shoot at something, we have to like it's a huge deal. Like, we gotta go find where every single bullet went, and uh, and you're accountable for every single one of those bullets we shoot. Yeah, so it's crazy, and like even like even like the tactics where like we would like flood rooms and shit, you know. It's like we do it way different uh on the SWAT team that I'm on. It's not you get like that foothold, and you kind of read the room and go from there, and it's all about the angles and everything, and it's just a little different. Like we'll clear a house with eight dudes, and and we we can do it pretty pretty well with eight to ten guys, and then but you know, looking back at raids, we did we just flooded with the whole platoon, you know. It's fucking crazy. But I'm looking back, I'm like, I got too many bodies in in one room. But I didn't fucking worked for us when we were it worked, yeah, that's right. And I know like years ago talking to guys on the SWAT team that have been there for a while, like that's how they used to do it too, which is you know, tactics chain and shit like that. But yeah, it's just it's just crazy. Some of the just the little bit, little differences, I guess you could say. But yeah, so I don't know what else. You don't know. Like I I got out and then I uh joined the Air Force Reserves right after, pretty much after I got I you know, I tried going into the Marine Marine Reserves because there was uh like a law enforcement battalion that was here in Minnesota. Um and I I kept getting put in touch with the wrong people. And uh I I should have just gone to a recruiter here, but I I had some buddies in the Air Force Reserves and they kind of convinced me like if I did that I could be with them and like deployments are a lot shorter, yeah. Which you know, whatever. So I I eventually just did that and it was fine. Did a couple deployments to Kuwait and Qatar, so then did 16 years there, and then as soon as I hit the 20, I was like, they're trying to get me to stay in. I'm like, No, dude, I'm done. It's like good for you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, I I've asked not everybody, but quite a few people this, and you've been going for a while. This actually is uh this has been a very detailed recounting of a lot of stuff, dude. It's it's been good, it's been real good.
SPEAKER_00It's gonna be quick to me.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think you're one of our more detailed interviews by far, and I like it, but I'm very curious on the more emotional side of things. What does it mean to you when you came back? Did you have any difficulty like sort of integrating and talking to your family? And what do you tell people?
SPEAKER_00No, I so not it wasn't too bad. At first, I didn't really talk about it, and then I think I it might have been even before we went home on leave. I talked to uh I think it was a Navy psychologist, psychiatrist, I I can't remember. Because I wasn't like I didn't feel right because I wasn't really talking about it at all about anything at all, really. And then I started talking to this dude, and he was like, I started feeling better. And he was like basically like the more I talk about it, the better I would feel about it. And that's kind of how it is. I've never like not talked about uh my experience in Iraq at all. Like I when I talk about it, I feel better. So like some of my friends, when I got home, I I I I would talk about it. It was like I was like an open book. I didn't really hold anything back. And all my and I never and I I can't really claim that I got PTSD. Nothing, nothing triggers me. I never I was never like driving down the road and oh my god, there's some garbage there, and like it's gonna blow up. That didn't I mean that might have been that at first, but and I'm like I remember being back at Camp Pendleton before leave. There was dudes down at the I can't remember what that shooting range was down in our backyard at at Mateo, but I remember like one of the first mornings that someone was shooting in the morning and everyone kind of like ducked down real quick, and that was about it. Otherwise, I did pretty well transitioning from combat back to uh you know real life, I guess you could say. I didn't really have any issues with that at all. Like I know some guys had have it just I got I guess I'm just lucky and nothing really affected me too too, or yeah, nothing bad, I guess.
SPEAKER_02Well, I mean, and that's that's a good distinction point, just speaking generally, uh you have adaptive behaviors no matter what. Yeah, and and the definition of post traumatic stress disorder is the disorder part. Does it interfere with your actual life? So even if you did have some stress. Stress or you saw some garbage and it made you sweat for a minute, did you freak out, pull on the side of the road and call EOD? Like that that's a that's a problem, right? If you're in California, that would be a problem. But if but if you didn't do those things, right, then it's you know not a big deal. So what what do you kind of tell people what does all this mean to you? Does it do you look back on it fondly? Do you just think it's something that happened or Oh yeah, I mean, I wouldn't take it back for anything.
SPEAKER_00I'm glad I glad I did it and fuck glad I made it through with just the I mean, like my my wounds were fairly minor compared to some of the other guys, and I ended up getting two two purple hearts that I didn't even know I got the second one until we were back in the States. And Stanford and Cook handed me the there was no ceremony or whatever. He just handed it, he had like a stack of those. Uh do you remember that? Stack of the awards, and he's like, Here, here you go. And I'm like, Oh shit, I got a second one. I had no idea.
SPEAKER_01Nylon and I got out really fast. Um, we were out by December. And uh one day one day, one day in the mail, I got my I got a I got my I got an award. He's like, here you go. Well it's like oh okay, thanks.
SPEAKER_00Do you remember Mike Hansen?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So he's on uh he's from Minnesota. So I've actually seen him quite a few times in the last few years. He got promoted to corporal while on terminal leave.
SPEAKER_01I I got promoted to sergeant on terminal leave. They they fucking held they held my promotion, man, because they were trying to get me to re-enlist and they were like trying to dangle it. Like, anyways, whatever.
SPEAKER_00So I I ended up getting promoted uh near the end of my enlistment, but I got in a little bit of trouble in Okinawa. And it was actually me and Hansen. Uh so I got I was I got non-recked, and uh it was Sergeant Major Ellis. So you remember the barracks in Okinawa? We were in the same barracks and in this this the second time in Okinawa, and the the ladder wells on the exterior of the buildings.
SPEAKER_03Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_00It was we were on like this top, almost the top floor, and it was so much easier to just go out there and smoke on the weekends at night than go down with a smoke pit.
SPEAKER_03100%.
SPEAKER_00On a fucking Saturday night at I don't know what time, Hanson are out there smoking a cigarette. Here comes Sergeant Major Ellis in the dark, in camis, on a Saturday night, sees us smoking, calls us down, chews our asses out. Like, whatever. So we, you know, two hours later, we're like, ah, he's probably asleep by now or whatever. Go back out to smoke again. Nope. He's back out there in camis. And then we then we got in a lot of trouble, and I ended up getting non-wrecked. Oh, that's hilarious. Yeah. I eventually got it before I got out, so that was that was nice. But uh, I was just shy, I would have been just a few months shy of being able to eligible for sergeant, but I got non-wrecked. So that's oh well, not a big deal. I was getting out anyway, so it didn't really bother me. But I didn't it was that second deployment Okinawa for me. Uh I did not garrison life was not great for me. I did not, I hated being in garrison. And we we had a new platoon sergeant, and him and I bumped heads quite a bit. Uh he was yeah, he he was with that special operations training group, and we did like our trap school through them before that deployment. Uh and he hadn't did hadn't deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan or anything. He'd been with SOTG for a while, and he came to us and he would talk about like Iraq like he'd been there, and we're all like, How the fuck do you know all this shit? Well, he was watching everything on like Blue Force tracker or something like that. I I don't remember exactly. But uh he was a moto guy, straight out of a black hawk catalog, you know, and all extra shit. And uh him and I bumped heads quite a few times, and we were on some big training mission in the jungle for like a week or two or something, and uh he left his rifle out, and I was like, oh I took the bolt out and uh I hit it. And uh still we had we had a before he came, we had a different platoon sergeant, Staff Sergeant Cole. I can't remember what his name name was, Cornwell or something. He was a pretty good dude. I I liked him a lot. Uh he came, he ended up becoming our section leader, and uh he came over and was like, hey, because I was a squad leader then, and he's like, Hey, uh, Gunny's missing something. Um does anyone know anything about this? Like, could you describe it better to me? Like, what's he missing? Yeah, I kept that thing, I kept this bolt all fucking day long, and it wasn't until the middle of the night I went and set it on his Humvee, and then I went back to sleep.
SPEAKER_01That's hilarious.
SPEAKER_00That's awesome. He didn't yeah, he didn't care for me. I had my squad when we we did like a movement to contact the next day. I had my squad do cami paint. Like there was uh one guy was uh uh we did the rising sun on his face. Uh three of us were like all the the characters out from Kiss. They're their face paint. That's we had one. We had one dude who was a tiger. That platoon platoon sergeant. As soon as we got back, he's like, Mater, get you and your fucking squad to wash that shit off your face.
SPEAKER_01That's amazing.
SPEAKER_00That's amazing. Oh god, but he, I mean, he couldn't. I we didn't, I was great in the field, and we did a couple different squad competitions, and I always took first place. And so we did like like we did swim qual and I got WSQ. And he said, Where you fucking been all day? I'm like, swim qual. And he's like, What'd you get? WSQ. Well, good job, you know. Yeah, but uh yeah, that was yeah.
SPEAKER_02So dude, this has been awesome. We're gonna wrap it up just because uh we're sitting at we're sitting at almost three hours. You're again you're you're my longest. It's gone by quick. Yeah. But it's been great. And I bet if we if you think about it a minute and you look through your journal again, I bet we could have you back on, and we should. Uh this has been awesome, dude. It's been really good to see you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I just want to thank you guys for doing this. This is pr pretty cool. Actually, I read that I read that book, and I'm like, there ain't much about weapons company in here, a little bit, but not a lot. So I'm glad you guys are doing this. It's been awesome listening to all the podcasts. And I've listened to all of them up till up till now. So I'll continue. We'll continue. We'll listen to them. Yeah, appreciate it, man.
SPEAKER_02We're not gonna stop till people stop saying yes. So yeah.
SPEAKER_00For sure. Yeah, it's awesome. I hope you get everyone.
SPEAKER_02That's it.
SPEAKER_00Uh yeah. That's I would love for you to have uh well, I guess he's Sergeant Major Cook now or Gunning Murray, or whatever he's I think he was a master guns at the end.
SPEAKER_01If you like what you heard, make sure you subscribe for future episodes on your favorite podcast service.