Surrounded - Joseph Herscher (part 1 of 2)

Everyone has a Joe Herscher story, even Joe: a theater student watches Heartbreak Ridge, and joins the Marines, and then finds himself in Ramadi learning decisiveness under fire. We walk through some pre-war Okinawa moments, the first ambush, April’s street battles, and a desperate standoff.

• why a comedy dreamer chose infantry and mortars
• culture shock in the fleet and Okinawa
• language training that didn’t match the mission
• first contacts that flipped hearts-and-minds to survival
• April 6 to 10: ambushes, alley fights, and QRF pushes
• psyops and door-to-door weapon finds
• field hospitals in homes
• lessons from hesitation and earning trust
• the Michigan Street crash

If you like what you've heard this is a multi part episode make sure you listen to the rest of the story

----------------------------------------------
If you like what you heard, please subscribe on your favorite podcast service or follow our webpage for direct downloads @ https://www.buzzsprout.com/2525088

If you are a member of Weapons Company or someone with a story about Weapons Company 2/4 in 2004, please come tell some stories with us - 20 mins or 20 hours! Help paint the canvas of an archival story for others to know what it was like. Contact us @ RamadiPodcast@gmail.com, or via the podcast website above. 

All music used with permission by soundbay: https://www.youtube.com/@soundbay_RFM 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:38

Alright, man. Well, let's tell everybody who you are, uh, what rank you were in 2004 and what platoon you were with.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

Yep. My name is Joe Hersher. I was a Lance Corporal, and I was with 81mm Mortar Platoon, and I was Rainmaker in Iraq. Nice, man. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:57

Well, kick it off wherever you want to start, dude.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

Yeah. So um, well, I definitely didn't ever know I was gonna be a Marine. Um, I was uh I had done three years of college, almost three years, before I went to the Marine Corps. Uh I was at Columbia College in Chicago, and I um did a bunch of ad drop my junior year. I was a theater major. I wanted to be on Saturday Night Live my whole life. That's all I wanted to do.

SPEAKER_02 1:23

And uh that actually makes a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

And I and I remember um I was home, I did a bunch of ad drop my junior year, and I had no, I only had classes Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. So I had Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday to party. And uh so I was at home, I was doing laundry. I was I lived 40 minutes south in Kankiki, uh Illinois. And I was at home doing laundry, I was drinking beer, and Heartbreak Ridge came on, and I was like, this is the best movie I've ever seen in my life. I'm going to the Marine Corps. And I remember I was like one o'clock in the afternoon. I'm already like half in the bag. I called the recruiter. I was like, I'm coming to the Marine Corps. Dude, I'm so stoked. Let's go. And he said, he's like, slow down, Turbo. Why don't you call me back when you're still free? And uh turned up the next day. I called him the next day and uh that Friday, and I went in and saw him. And uh yeah, I was going to the Marine Corps. My mom like still couldn't believe it. And that was um April of 2001. And then so we pre-9-11. And um I was uh went to boot camp. I got out, I got Meritorious PFC uh because I had college. And then I went to SOI, and then and I remember in the recruiter too. I was like, he's like, What do you want to do? I was like, I want to blow stuff up. He's I had a high ass fab. He's like, dude, pick anything else. I was infantry. Like, did you want to get out with with something that you can use? I said, I want to blow stuff up. He's like, You're an idiot, and sign me infantry. I was like, sick. And then obviously then 9-11 happened. I was like, what did I do? Um, yeah, so I was uh I was in school of infantry, loved it, went to mortar school, and I loved the mortar system, and I excelled at that. I was like just always trying to be the fastest, always, always, always like push, push, push. And it was, I remember, you know, Samuels, John C. And uh, we were good friends, and we were in war school together, and we were always competing, we were like the fastest gunners. And uh, in fact, when we went in, um, everybody else went to Kaneohe, and a few went to eighth and I, and uh everybody else went to Kaneohe. Samuels and I stayed in Pendleton and went to like we know what to do with these guys, and but went to C4 because we were both like troublemakers, which makes a lot of sense. Um, but yeah, so I uh funny too. I got in trouble in in mortar school. I I'm an idiot, but I was drinking and uh I had I had not turned 21. I graduated at high school when I was uh 17, and so I went right into college. So I had almost I wasn't even 21, I was almost 21, and I underage drank, drank at the e-club, got in a fight with somebody, no one said a word about it. It's like it just went on. I was like, this is awesome. I'm not getting in trouble. And then the last day, um, there was talk that I was gonna get meritorious lance out of SOI, and I was like, there's no way. Well, I got called in and they called me up the thing, and I didn't get that. I got busted down to private. So I uh yeah, it was awesome. It's my favorite. And so I was like, went to the fleet. So I, you know, I go to 2-4, I go to the fleet, and I have snake bites. And like literally everyone had to say something about my snake bite. I didn't have snake bites already. Who are you? And it's like, this is awesome. I didn't know what a snake bite was when I came to the fleet. Uh and obviously all my camis had them too. So I was like, this is I can't wait to pick up again. And he ranked. And then uh I think that's what Hodges, like the first time Hodges came up to me, like, you have snake bites? Oh, you're a real Marine. I love this guy. He's like, now whip it out, let me see it. He's like, Yeah, let me see it. I want to see it. I'm like, okay. Of course, I whipped out my junk, and then uh that's what started the whole thing. That was my introduction into the fleet marine corps. And then the skin, the uh the wristwatch became a thing from there, but that's true. I digress.

SPEAKER_02 5:39

We could end the podcast right here. This is it. This is all the story.

SPEAKER_01 5:45

I have I have many, many memories of uh of you uh wristwatching yourself uh at bars and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 5:53

You guys got the time? My watch is all dipped up.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

Oh man. I don't know how we're gonna get kicked out of that one bar that was the one that you could pay uh for a one-night membership to uh the smoking, like so you could smoke indoors. Remember that place? I do. So funny. We got we I don't know how they didn't ban us for life. It's probably because we spent so much money there, but exactly.

SPEAKER_00 6:17

Don't come back until tomorrow. That's well, yeah. So from there, I um um yeah, in the fleet, and um I loved it. I yeah, I love 2-4. Um, I right when I went in, you know, I I you guys had talked about this before with all the so much hazing going on. And uh I was into it. I thought it was really fun. But also, but also um I I remember being in the chow hall, and I don't know if you remember the the two brothers, and they were yoked. They were just like roided out brothers that got ended up getting kicked out uh like shortly thereafter, but they were just like flipping tables and fighting people in the chow hall. And I was like sitting in the corner, I didn't know anybody. I was like, dude, is this every day in the fleet? Like, is this what is this what happens? Uh yeah, that was wild with two four. Yeah, with two four, that's what happened. Yeah. Um, yeah, but I loved it. And then uh yeah, then we ended up going to uh Okinawa, and um I loved Okinawa, and actually in college, I took Japanese language and culture one and two. Um, so I spoke quite a bit of Japanese. I could get by and be a little conversational, and it was pretty awesome. And because of that, I got sent to uh in um the Arabic school as well, which you uh you did as well, right?

SPEAKER_01 7:48

Yep, yep. I was there with you.

SPEAKER_00 7:49

Yep. And uh yeah, and I always thought our instructor was from Morocco.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

But I no, I don't think so. I if I remember correctly, he was where was he from? But no, I don't think he was Moroccan.

SPEAKER_00 8:05

Yeah. Um, but we definitely didn't learn what we were supposed to.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

No, he taught us Egyptian Arabic.

SPEAKER_00 8:16

And I remember like looking stuff up before we left and like and then talking to some of the interpreters and asking, you know, like, dude, how do you say this in Iraqi? Like it's completely different. Like, you know.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

I did my biggest memory of that guy was how excited he got about the fact that my last name meant Egypt. And he was like nearly beside himself when he was like, Oh, oh, oh, oh.

SOI, Mortars, And Early Trouble

SPEAKER_00 8:38

Anyways, so that's awesome. Yeah, but um it was it was um Okinawa was great, and I remember the first six months was pretty good. We did a lot of cool training, and I kept it pretty cool. I think I got in trouble once or twice. I was on uh Liberty Risk, and then the second six months it was like okay, I pretty much just stayed on Liberty Risk. Um, any staff NCOs listening, I I apologize. I like I I think at the end, like towards the middle of that, it was just like, okay, let's just keep him on Liberty Risk because it's just gonna be you're just gonna get in trouble.

SPEAKER_02 9:20

Well, dude, this the second half of that deployment morale was as low as it possibly could be, and blood alcohol content was as high as it possibly could be for almost everybody.

SPEAKER_01 9:30

Absolutely. I don't think I know a single person that doesn't have an alcohol-related incident. That second part of the deployment, right? Because I know I got, I mean, I that's when I got in I got in trouble twice. And that was all it was all in the second half. So same.

SPEAKER_02 9:46

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

Okay, well, I don't know how I didn't get caught more.

SPEAKER_01 9:49

I mean, that that I mean Hersher, I think you were a part of that crazy fight that we got into uh at the what's the name of the one that was the the the bar that was upstairs?

SPEAKER_02 9:59

The east coast was the one upstairs. East coast, the punk rock bar.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

No, no, no. The one that was down, uh it's the place that had the arm wrestling station. Oh uh red eye, red eye, that's it. And then uh and and remember there is I can't remember what was going on, but some people were like I think it was some engineers that were trying to come up the stairs, and then there was a bunch of us, and I think it was you that they had locked up the guys because they were trying to push, they were put trying to keep them back down, and you pulled out like a knife. It was not it wasn't it was a pocket knife, it didn't open it up, but you like tapped it on the dude's head.

SPEAKER_03 10:34

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:38

Open up, buddy.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

I can't I can't remember what you said, but then that they were like, okay, everybody out, and then they sent us down and they had already sent Shore Patrol after us.

SPEAKER_02 10:47

Which was Husso, and he didn't know what to do.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

No, I know.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think actually uh Reagan responded to that as well because he was fapped out.

unknown 10:59

Oh, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

Yeah, there was they sent a lot of people after us.

unknown 11:02

They did.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

We got away with that one.

SPEAKER_01 11:06

Yeah, we didn't get away with that one. Erased this, erased this one. Oh man. That's too funny.

SPEAKER_02 11:17

So while this is an excellent workup, uh, did you do anything else that was useful for later on? Um no, I did not.

SPEAKER_00 11:26

No, I just um after that, I you know, then we we came back, we started doing our workup, and um I went pretty much uh we did a I did a few training exercises, and we went to uh pretty much right to the school and started learning Arabic. And you're kind of on your own at that. I think you guys were doing a different, you guys were doing different training.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

That's when they went to March.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

That's when they went to March Base. That's right.

unknown 11:52

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 11:53

And so yeah, we were kind of on our own, which isn't a great time for me. Um decided to leave Hersher on his own. Um, and then but we I did really well and I I liked the school. And then uh yeah, we were shipping out, and um, I remember it's like this is go time, let's go. And we had no idea what we were in store for, obviously. You guys have talked about that uh quite a bit, but um, yeah, I remember the the plane ride was miserable. And uh, I mean, I I thought it was funny. We were laughing the whole time. I remember dancing on the pole, um, going to the bathroom back before you had to walk that pole up to the front to go to the bathroom on the C141. Yeah. Um, and then you're just sitting there, you know, nut to butt with everybody holding your rifle, freezing, because we all had desert camis on, right? Frozen. Uh breakdown in New Jersey. Um, that was fun. Breakdown in Germany. I remember we landed in Germany, and that's when the fuel is flying out of fuselage. You're like, what's wrong? You know, catch while I was like, What's wrong? It's dead broke, sir. He's like, What the hell's that mean? And then fueling out of the side. And then remember that bus broke down? We were so we got on the buses because we're out in the tarmac, and we got on the buses to go back to the terminal, and then the bus broke down also.

SPEAKER_01 13:19

I forgot about that part.

SPEAKER_00 13:20

I just remember walk back.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

I remember them yelling, get back on the bus, get back on the bus. I forgot about the rust breaking down too. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

Yeah, good times. Uh yeah, and then uh coming in and um, yeah, so we actually uh Kuwait was pretty crazy because I remember there was um the suicide. Yep, and uh thankfully I just missed that working party. That would have been unpleasant at best. Um sad. And uh man, I remember just uh thinking to myself, like, is this gonna be you know the first the first death of any or um yeah, that was rough.

SPEAKER_01 13:59

No, that that's I remember that hitting me pretty hard too. I mean, I didn't know the guy. Um he was obviously he was in a different company, but it was uh that was a somber start for sure.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

Yeah, absolutely. So and I knew a lot of the I can't remember if he was with golf. I knew a lot of the golf guys just because Samuel um when he went in, he went to golf with the 60s, and then um so I knew a lot of golf guys, but my memory is that it was golf, but I as I say I don't have it written down, but I think so. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:31

So then uh yeah. We'd had suicides back at Camp Pendleton. Absolutely. And usually when they did that, they would do a safety stand down, and weirdly, somebody would, you know, in the Marine Corps' terrible, terrible way, they would check on you. But they check on you by making you do very unpleasant things like a safety stand down and sit in PowerPoint classes and and that make you want to end your life more. But uh we didn't do any of that. It was like that dude shot himself in a Portageon, and we never talked about it. Like it was just mentioned in a quick like company formation, and then we just went about our way. It was very I don't I don't know, I don't think anybody knew what to do. That that was the it was very unusual.

SPEAKER_00 15:22

Yeah, yeah. I would I just yeah, it took me back for sure. It took it took me back. I it was wild. And then um, yeah, I think from there we flew. I flew in. Um some of you guys drove, I believe, but um I flew in and then we drove from there on the seven tons. And what do you remember of the flight in?

SPEAKER_01 15:44

Were you heloed in?

SPEAKER_00 15:46

Um I can't remember. I think that we were heloed in, yeah. Yeah. And then we um flew and then we drove in on the seven tons. Yeah. It was pretty chill. I mean, it was you don't see a lot, you know. That's that's like the desert of a desert until you get to uh Baghdad and then Ramadi and Fluja, you fly over some of these areas, but for the most part, it's desolate. You know, it's just desert. I remember in Kuwait just thinking how cool the desert was, because I had never seen the desert before from Chicago, you know, like it'd seem Pendleton Desert, but um it was just it's so calm at night and so quiet and it's it's eerie, but yeah, I I really enjoyed the desert. And the two weeks of calm and chill at Kuwait, whatever it was.

SPEAKER_02 16:34

So do you remember how many do you remember how many people were with you on the flight in? Just because I again this is I did drive up and I was paying attention to what my small group was doing, but I I didn't know I didn't even know there were people that flew up until until a couple months ago.

SPEAKER_00 16:49

So yeah, yeah, absolutely. I don't remember anyone that was on the playing with me. I don't and I don't remember who was in the the seven ton either of driving there. I know that's so it's so hazy. I don't know why we don't remember that. I think it wasn't it early in the morning too. I think we flew out super early, like 2 a.m. or something.

SPEAKER_02 17:08

I'm sure.

Fleet Life, Hazing, And Okinawa

SPEAKER_00 17:09

Yeah, and so I was probably I'm sure I slept on the flight. I'm sure I was in and out the whole ride through uh Ramadi. Um I can sleep anywhere.

SPEAKER_01 17:21

So one it's one of the skills you learn in boot camp. No, well, I I I know ours our situation was different with 81s just because we're we're personnel heavy and in in relationship to the the rest of weapons company that is. And so I think for the most part, the map platoons took everybody because by by design they had a spot for them to sit. But with our high back situation, we were loaded, I mean, we were I mean, we looked like the Beverly Hillbillies with everything strapped to the back of our, you know, in the bed of the truck, and so there wasn't any room for for the rest of our platoon. So I think it might have been just but I don't know if that's the case for the uh the other companies is is what I'd questioned. Did did Echo and Golf and Fox did they just all come up in the convoy in the back of the seven tons?

SPEAKER_02 18:17

Or I mean it sure seemed like it. I mean, there were so many seven tons that were behind us in the convoy, but yeah, I don't know. I don't know either. Well, what was uh what was your first impression when you got there then?

SPEAKER_00 18:30

Um I remember um just being excited. I I mean this was uh originally a peacekeeping mission, you know, uh winning the hearts and minds of the people. And I was excited to go out get out in town, um, try to use some Arabic and uh and meet the people. And when we first went out, and I was it was great, you know, talking to people and talking to little kids, and uh, they were all pretty cool and kind of they always want Pepsi Bepsi. There's no peace. So Mr. Mr. Bepsi, Mr. Chocolata. Chocolata. I'm like, bro, it in fact, I had my I remember calling my mom and asking her to send me a bunch of chocolate, which all melted. She sent a bunch, and it was just a gelatinous mass when I came out of it. And uh I was gonna hand it out to the kids, but anyway, um, and then they want Pepsi, or you know, the Mr. Mr. the freaky freaky. I'm like freaky freaky. What is and then you know the job thing, and I was that's insane. Um, but you have no idea going into it, you know. Um and yeah, you know, you know, playing soccer, handing out soccer balls, and then yeah, I was initial impression was was I I was I was pretty late, I was pretty excited about it. I don't know how you guys felt.

SPEAKER_02 19:44

Yeah, very similar. It was interesting to to explore the city. Uh I again I was in a different position, but I was very focused on not getting lost. And so I probably paid more attention to the math than I did to uh having freaky freaky with uh little kids. But uh but the the interest it was an interesting culture for sure. And I was surprised at how big the city was.

SPEAKER_00 20:09

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it was massive. And the just the area was so much different, too. You know, the lush for they'd have like a lush forest along the Euphrates and the Tigers, and then you know, it'd go right into desert and then back up and into houses and into country and and rural areas, and then the city, and uh yeah, it was just massive. You don't realize how big it is. And I remember how incredible it was being at you know Uday's Palace there at Hurricane Point, too. Or you know, the Garden of Eden may have been, you know, supposedly. Um and and just I mean the the rivers are beautiful and being on guard, you know, we did that five-week or five-week rotation eventually, where day day QRF, day taskable, night QRF, night taskable, and then and guard. And I I enjoyed guard too, because just you know, being up there and being on the up on the bridge and watching over the city, it's just it's really neat. Initially. Um, you know, and then all um we had our first few contacts, our few few contacts, and then um, you know, obviously April 6th. I don't know if we want to get into that already, but um all hell broke loose on that one.

SPEAKER_01 21:20

But what do you remember the first few times that you guys got into contact with stuff? What do you what's your first memory of uh shooting back?

SPEAKER_00 21:28

My first uh shooting back was different. My first memory was um the RPG that hit. Um and who was in that Humvee? Um the RPG attack. It was early on.

SPEAKER_01 21:42

You mean that it it wasn't our it wasn't our vehicles, it was against uh Fox. Is that the one that you're talking about?

SPEAKER_02 21:49

Yeah, Lance Lance Corporal Dang. Yeah, yeah, you guys were the QRF for that, I think.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

Yep. And um, I believe I think Hodges drove that back. He was in there driving that back, like steering when it got towed. And uh yeah, so that was unpleasant. Um and then we we got that back, and it's like, okay, shit's getting real. You know, that's when the realization hit, like, okay, this isn't gonna be all rainbows and butterflies. And uh yeah, and April 6th, our first contact, we were um day QRL. And we were going to assist golf, I believe, on the sixth. And I think we met up with you guys, actually.

SPEAKER_02 22:37

Eventually, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:38

Eventually, yeah. We were on our way, and I believe the sixth was our first ambush. And I remember talking to Savage afterwards. And he, I said, What did they do to ambush? I said, They, I mean, they just popped out. But he's like, Oh, they tried to they put stuff in the road. I'm like, What did they put in the road? He goes, cinder blocks, three cinder blocks. I was like, that was the roadblock, three cinder blocks. He's like, Yeah, we would roll right over them, but that the RPK started lighting us up from the side. But I remember just getting hit from from the side of from the left to contact left, everybody's yelling out of the vehicles immediately. I was a dismount. So I was a dismount the first two or three months. We were there. And then um I got I was put on the Mark 19, uh, mounted on the Humviso. Um, but yeah, so I've dismount, we're all out. Um, Sergeant Gravity is right next to me. We assault the objective. We're we're laying on cover fire. Savage is an absolute savage. Um he is laying that 240 is just rocking. I mean, bada, it's all you hear. And he is uh he was on it so fast. And we jump through ceasefire, we jump through um over this little rod iron fence, Swing Garcia and I and a few others, and we're mowing guys down. There's a few guys in there, four or five people. And then we keep going, we push through, and it's just this tiny little park. And we get to the end, we get to this wall, and uh at the this big wall at the end, and uh, I'm like, all right, I'm in my mind. I'm like, all right, we sit we assault the objective, we gotta go help golf, let's get out of here. And uh we get to the end, and Sergeant Garcia goes, scale that wall. Scale that wall. And I was like, and in my mind, I'm like, I don't want to fucking scale that wall. And I was like, we gotta go, we gotta help golf, you know. All these things are going through my head, and uh, we gotta help golf. It's like, and I remember saying to Sergeant Garcia, like, I don't want to scale that wall. And he's like, fuck it, fuck it, fine, I'll scale the wall. And he scales the wall, I'm like, son of a bitch, no, okay, I'm going. And so I'm like right behind him. We scale the wall. I'm like, I'm never gonna hear the end of this. He's gonna be so mad at me. And uh it's like we jump over and we jump over this wall, and when we jump over, we're like, shit, it's just him and I when we first get over, and it's we're in the middle of an intersection, like wide open intersection, away from everybody, nobody else can see us. And uh, we see this vehicle like right to the right, and it's popped the trunk's popped open, and it's uh full of weapons and like old stick grenades, like Russian stick grenades and like um all this stuff in there like nothing we can do with it now. We can't grab it and throw up this wall. So um we scale back over the wall, we get back in the Humvees and we take off. But um, I never forgot that. And I and I, you know, and I hesitated and I was like, I don't want to scale that wall. And from then on, I was like, I will never let Sergeant Garcia down. I mean, I love the guy, and um, you know, he was my I was on his gun forever too on the mortars. So he was always I I just looked up to him so much, and um great his tutelage was just top-notch stuff I've carried with me for the rest of my life, and so um, yeah, I disappointed him that day. Fine, I'll fucking scale it. And uh, but I I never hesitated after that. So it was a it was a great life lesson, and I haven't to this day.

SPEAKER_01 25:54

So that park that you brought up, uh, was that the one that was kind of like a Disneyland one? The one that like there were the creepy ass, you know which one I'm talking about? I didn't it wasn't that one.

SPEAKER_00 26:07

No, this was just it was almost just like a boulevard, like a like a tiny room. No, it was like taller grass, and um, no, that creepy one. I I think we called for fire on that. I think we called in cobras around station and we called in on that before, though. There's a bunch of guys shooting out of that, which was one of the only times I remember calling for air support, which was epic. You know, you don't even know they're there and they bank around the corner. Yeah, it's unbelievable.

SPEAKER_02 26:34

I'm jealous I never got to call for air support.

SPEAKER_00 26:37

Yeah, it was awesome. And I uh I didn't get to call for that one. I I started, I was a Ford Observer for a little bit. I was on the gun forever, and then uh Ford Observer for a little bit before we before we left. But um, I've got to call one nine-line brief in my life, and it was probably the coolest thing on earth. Wings level, cleared hot. You clear them hot nice something through the club.

SPEAKER_02 27:00

So after you guys uh assaulted through and all that and you got back on the trucks, you guys linked up with golf on easy street?

Language School And The Bumpy Trip To War

SPEAKER_00 27:06

Yeah, linked up with golf on easy street, and uh I remember we we dismounted and we were pushing through the street a little bit, and I remember taking fire there. Uh we were pushing down the street, and we're kind of you know, we're bounding down the street, and there's some alleyways, and I cannot, for the life of me, I cannot remember who is across the street. And I checked around the corner, I didn't see anybody. I just did a little peek and then I and his alley was clear. They weren't like right next to each other. They're they're a little offset. And I saw his alley, he was clear, and I pushed him forward, and he starts going forward, and immediately rifle fire erupts right in front of my face. On the other side of his alley, he was there was like a little offset, like a little um concrete thing that I didn't see. This guy, and he just unloaded. And AK Round starts flying, unloads the whole magazine, and I'd like to wait for it to stop. I peek around the corner and start shooting, and he's fleeing now. He's running down the street. We um started Garcia and I and I think somebody else, we run down the street, this little alleyway after him. We never did find him. We hopped the fence and then looked under vehicle and um yeah, he got away. Not stoked about that. But we got back on and um got back on the street, kept pushing, and I I had to hear it from the other guy too. He said, You said it was clear, I'll never listen to you again, nursery. I was like, my bad. I didn't think uh yeah, we kept pushing down the street. I remember um through that first day keeping bodies. I don't know if you guys remember this. They wanted us to keep the bodies to drop them off at police checkpoints. Yeah, and that was a whole shit show. And so, I mean, we had like all these bodies we're dropping off at police checkpoints. And I remember like dragging, dragging some of them and putting them on the Humvees and putting them in uh seven tons, and it was it was a whole thing. And uh that went out the window really quick uh day two, you know, April April 7th. We were done with that.

SPEAKER_02 29:03

So well, I remember at one point, I remember at one point driving past an intersection that was meant to be an IP checkpoint, and it looked like something out of a horror movie. There was like 50 people stat, like just just in a pile. And I was like, Well, that how is that what are they gonna do with that? What is how is that affected? What are they what's there's no reason for that?

SPEAKER_00 29:23

No, absolutely not.

SPEAKER_02 29:25

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:28

And then um, I that day we had to uh we were back and forth, and they had, you know, golf had quite a few casualties, and we had to go, we were in and out, um uh resupplying and getting more ammo out of um combat outposts. And I remember dropping off some wounded, and uh we were running in and out, and some uh somebody was hit. I think they got shot, and then somebody else was hit with some shrapnel, um, minor wounds. They were obviously for for the time, um, and they were okay. And then um grabbed somebody and I cannot remember who it is, and I'm running him in, and I have another, I have his leg, and he's got his arm wrapped around me. We're we're carrying him, and Doc has him on the other side, another doc. And I said, Where are you hit? Where are you hit? And he's like, I was like, You all right? And he said, Oh yeah, I sprained my ankle. And I started, I started laughing, like audio like laughing out loud. And at the same time, that's they snapped a picture, they're taking pictures of us carrying the window, which I didn't even see the guy, and I see the flash, and I'm like, you know, I'm laughing like, dude, what are you flashing to my face for? And uh, and we go back, we get ammo, we go right back out in town. And I remember April 8th or something, ninth, I guess, was like a pretty chilled day. I called home, and my dad said, Hey, you're in the you're on the front page of the Chicago Tribune. He's like, You're dumbass. I knew it was you, you're the only one laughing in combat. Okay, what had happened was in his defense, I think he was jumping out of the way of an RPG. And then like uh yeah, that was great. Umories. It is an epic picture. But yeah, it's a pretty it is a pretty good picture. It's pretty funny, and I am laughing in it. And then um I remember too, just uh pushing down alleyways. This might have been you know into the seventh. You know, we just we went back for a little bit, slept for a little bit, but you're I slept great too. People are like, I couldn't sleep, you know, adrenaline was so high, but your adrenaline's so high you just dump adrenaline. And then I feel like we'd go back and and you I slept so good. Wake up first thing in the morning, it's you know, the city's erupted again. And I remember um pushing through alleyways a bunch. Um, and Sergeant Major Booker um just we would always have to go get him. He's clearing houses by himself. I mean, he's kicking indoors. Didn't he carry like a M14 or something too?

SPEAKER_01 32:00

Yes, yeah, he had picked it up off the like on a when he was at it was one of our missions that he ended up acquiring that from somebody and then he carried that, I think.

SPEAKER_02 32:09

I yeah, I believe he got it from the army. Uh really like passed down to him.

SPEAKER_01 32:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:14

Oh, I thought I thought he had picked that up on a no, they had it as a DM rifle, and our sniper teams brought in their own uh both sniper rifle and a D and some DM rifles. So we had extra. And so he decided he decided that was his old man weapon of war.

SPEAKER_00 32:30

So yeah, and he's uh he was a scout sniper or something too, wasn't it? Right, right, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 32:34

For recon.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

So um, so we would have to go get. I remember I vividly um Lieutenant Dobbs saying, Hodges, go get him. Somebody go get Sergeant Major Booker. He's clearing houses by himself with his M14, he's on the roof, and he's got his like his the his Tevar is on his end of his M14, and he's like, shoot me, motherbookers, and then he pops back up and he's looking, he goes back down, but he's like, What is going on? We're like, and I remember somebody like oh he's metal hungry. I'm like, no, he's not. That's Sergeant Major Booker, dude. That is him. And I remember, like, yeah, they uh just had to go get him and like escorting him out, like or helping him clear clear houses and and leylong. And uh yeah, he was an animal. Uh but I remember um the day, I believe that was the same day uh Captain Weiler got hit with shrapnel as well. Yeah. Uh yeah, we took an RPG or uh IED right there, and we were in an alleyway, and I can remember, you know, you talked about the fog of war, or we were getting shot at from so many different directions. The enemies all around us are in the middle of the city, and we're down an alleyway, and we're trying to push down this alley. There's some guys at the end of the street there, but we're getting shot at from the sides, from the rooftops. And I remember I was like, we took cover for a second, and I was next to Sarge Garcia, and we're like laying in a like laying on the sandpile, and they're taking fire from the front, and we're like laying back cover fire, and uh, and so everybody could push across. And I was like, what are we doing right now? Like, what you know, you have that that moment of clarity where you're like, what is actually happening? Like you're getting shot at from so many different directions. Which way are we supposed to push? Which way are we which way are we going? Um, and I think that's right when well Captain Weiler got got hit. He could trapping onto the eye, I think.

SPEAKER_02 34:26

But um from from my memory, it was his lower face next to his lips.

SPEAKER_00 34:30

There you go.

SPEAKER_02 34:31

He's bleeding down of the mouth, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:33

Yep, yep. And uh that was wild. That was just a wild day. You know, that you don't know which way you're going, you know, which way you're pushing, and what's the objective here. And uh, you know, soon it was just we were trying to push to to back everybody up, which was m usually the case because we were always the QRF in our in our mobile self tune. So yeah, it was that was wild. I don't know if you remember that day, but I do, I do.

Kuwait Shock And A Somber Start

SPEAKER_02 35:01

I remember exactly what you're talking about, and especially when Weiler got wounded, because that was when I was surprised you guys made it to us. That was after you had reinforced us, because we were completely surrounded, and then all of a sudden there's highbacks and there's more people, and I'm like, holy shit, we have double the amount of guns all of a sudden. Like, this can happen, we can move. Because I think we had made it, you know, it was ours, and we had made it six or eight blocks, like we had not made it far because it was just wave after wave after wave of enemy, and you're just like you're knocking them down and they're dragging them away, and there's new ones coming up, and we had guys kicking down doors, but uh, my platoon was small on the sixth and seventh. We were 21, 22 people, and so and so once you put people up in the guns and drivers, that I mean that takes out half the platoon. You got four or five guys on either side of the street trying to kick down doors and clear stuff. It was it was real fucking hard. You guys were uh a sight for sore eyes. We had the CO2, but you know, and he had Perez uh basically taped to his back because he was dragging him with the radio the whole time. Poor Perez.

unknown 36:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:11

Yeah, and then and then I mean your description is accurate. Like literally, I don't even I didn't even know how you guys got to us to support us because we were surrounded. We were literally surrounded on all sides. I'm surprised you didn't get shot up on the way in, but when you got there, it was great. And yeah, and then we and then we were able to push forward and uh relieve uh the other company.

SPEAKER_00 36:31

Yeah, yeah, and we did take fire coming in too. I mean just guns blazing. We're shooting out all sides and shooting at rooftops, shooting at TPP. I mean, there's just the whole city erupted, so yeah. Um, yeah, and I after that, I I the seventh is was another day, you know, kind of a full day. Um just out in town, um, firefights, uh small firefights everywhere, huge firefights, getting hit with uh large IEDs too. And uh the eighth and ninth I remember pretty vividly, and that's uh going in, just going door to door and checking weapons for carbon. And and uh, you know, just door to door. I remember coming in with PsyOps and those guys are next level. You know, they'd come in with their speakers blazing, just talking shit in Arabic, talking shit, and then you have uh you know, heavy metals blasting, like not metal. It was epic. And uh, you know, I'm I'm trying, they'd call me up sometimes too, like Persh, what does what is this guy saying? What is he saying? I'm like, I'm like, I have no idea. I'm a honak, anahonak, like slow down, slow down when he's trying to say something to me. And I'm like, say it he'd slow down, I'd still what did he say? I have no fucking idea. I'm slowing down, did not tell me at all. Um, but yeah, you know, usually just liha, you're going through. Where are your weapons? Where are your weapons? And then he'd you know, you talk to one of the guys, Mr. Mr. No, Mr. No. And you go through the house, find like eight AKs, 20 pistols, like, what's all this? Mr. Mr. You got me. So funny.

SPEAKER_01 38:12

I remember those psyops guys who would also like after we had gone through a house, they would like just take a handful of their pamphlets and just like just throw it into them down the hallway and stuff like that. Yeah, it's like you guys are what are you doing like that? I don't I haven't I haven't heard about all your theories behind it, but I don't think this is doing what you think it's doing.

SPEAKER_00 38:34

Probably was not. But yeah, they um so they they were attached uh quite a bit when we were going door to door um and detaining uh quite a few people and uh you know a lot of those weapons too had been freshly used. And I remember just going through too and pushing through the city, and you'd see uh bullet hole, you'd see holes from the 50 cows going through like four floors. You know, you'd see it just it was going through the wall, up through the floor, the first floor, up through the second floor, up like all the way through to the sky. You just like could see all the way through. And I just remember like, man, it was just the chaos in the rounds flying, you know, prior to that. And then, you know, April 10th hit, and then that was another, you know, just absolutely huge one.

SPEAKER_02 39:19

I don't remember what you guys remember of April 10th, but well, I'm curious what what you did, since we were all three in different platoons. My platoon was on an outer cordon on the south edge of the cordon. I'm curious what you guys did with Rainmaker.

SPEAKER_00 39:33

Uh right, I believe we uh we were QRF again and we were reinforcing um, I believe uh Echo at one point and on golf again, I think. And they were they were pinned down, if I recall. Again, April 10th is kind of a blur. Yeah. Um and there was there was, I mean, it was heavy firefighting throughout the city. That was another like 16-hour one. I remember pushing through a field, and we we were pushing to this field, walking through this field, and we had taken heavy fire from this area, and a Bradley was was there, and it looked like the first thing that came to my mind was like a war movie, but there's a Bradley there, no one by it, and the track was blown off, and it was just in somebody's backyard, like we're in a rural area, and it's just in the bag in their backyard, just abandoned with the track blown off. I assume they went and got somebody to get the track back on, but um, it was just laying there like, man, this is eerie. Um, we kept pushing through this field. Uh, we've been taking fire from there. Remember, um there was a guy laying on the ground, and um, I think Sergeant Garcia talked about this too, but I remember he uh went over there and we kept we like he has his rifle up and we're like, is this guy alive? Is this guy alive? And we keep walking out, we're creeping up and we're like waiting to take him out. And like he's still got his rifle up, but um, he wasn't there for when I remember about him, it was either him or somebody else. We came up, we were like tapping him, we eye plucked him, nothing, no response. Gave him the old eye pluck and uh rolled him over, and um, you know, half his head was missing. I mean, he had to get down here with a 50 cal round. And so, yeah. And so uh like, okay, well, he's not alive, but you couldn't tell from one side, you know, he had his head down. So uh we kept pushing through that field, and uh this guy opened fire. Just um whole mag of his of his AK and was just spraying and praying, right? We all hit the deck. Uh Hodges keeps walking at this guy, doesn't hit the deck, doesn't flinch, keeps walking at the guy, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, puts uh his own mag into the guy, um, and lays him down pretty quick. And we were all like, what just happened? We didn't see this guy he was in like this tall grass, it was insane. Like, dude, you're an animal. Yeah, and uh but yeah, you you want that guy next to you in combat.

SPEAKER_01 42:00

100%.

SPEAKER_00 42:01

Yeah. And um, yeah, but I man, those the fields, you know, and we found so many field hospitals. Um, as you guys could probably remember, just going through these fields and finding these field hospitals, and how eerie those were too. Uh you'd come in, there's nobody in there, but there's there's IVs everywhere hanging from things, there's stretchers all over the place, and these makeshift uh makeshift hospitals.

SPEAKER_02 42:28

Yeah. Yeah, and all kinds of weird stuff too. Like we found one that had surgical instruments, but like, I mean, you're talking this is like in a dirt floor house, like not there, they're definitely not a stereo, like it was like Civil War style medicine. There was like and it looked like they were patching people up as best they could, but yeah, you're right. It was it was the level of sophistication, right? Because like if I had to rally people on the street right now and we got into a fight, I'm not gonna be able to make a field hospital in my house. It was a it's impressive, it's impressive they were able to rally that and have it in multiple different places. And there were dozens of those found. It wasn't like there was just one or two, right?

First Patrols And Meeting Ramadi

SPEAKER_00 43:06

It was yeah, it's very coordinated. And I remember um talking to some of the the locals too in combat, you know, on this, you know, on the 6th, 7th, and 10th, and um following and a lot of the they would help their their friends, you know. If if it was a friend that was fighting us, you know, they drag him in, or if it was just another someone they knew, or um, they would drag him into the house and and try to give them aid as well, which you know, we found a few times. Um I remember um there was a guy that got shot, and he had when we found him, he had holes riddled up his back from a saw or a 240. Um, and Doc Contreras and I um followed him in, and I believe Captain Wilder was I know Captain Wilder. And uh we went into the house, we followed the blood trail, went into this house, and and we're standing there, and the guy's you know clearly not gonna make it. And Doc is gonna start working on him, but we're just standing there and watching him uh, you know, take his last breath. And uh remember Captain Wilder saying, You know what to do, boys? And uh we didn't. I looked at Doc Atreus and I go, Do you know what he meant? He goes, No. I think I I think he meant like, you know, that we can't give this guy any help.

SPEAKER_01 44:23

So just uh probably meant take a picture because that's what we were supposed to do is take a picture. document to see if it's a bad guy later.

SPEAKER_00 44:32

I just remember there was like this long pause that you know what to do, boys. He walks out. We're pausing, we're staring at the guy, and I looked at Doc. I was like, do you know what he meant? He goes, nope. Okay, sick. And uh yeah, we and we just sat we stood there for another you know 30 seconds or so he took his last breath and then we just and we left. That was a surreal moment.

SPEAKER_01 44:56

But um yeah there's just so many instances like that where they they would they were helping people and and and and why wouldn't you you know like if if it happened here too wouldn't you want to help your fellow as a as a as a little bit of a note I had talked to the the Terps about that and uh to make a long story short what the comment was was kind of going back to one of our things that we take pride in for the Marine Corps is our reputation preceded us in that they were absolutely terrified of what we of of what we would potentially do with the bodies. Like they like they weren't necessarily at least this is what the interpreter said that they weren't necessarily friends pulling in friends but they were more worried about their countrymen or whatever being having their bodies left for the Marines to deal with and that we were I don't know if we're gonna use them in some sort of like black sacrifice or something like that. But they were they don't know they were very they were very aware that it was Marines that they were fighting and that you know we were bringing it.

SPEAKER_00 46:06

And we did um yeah and I think um after that um you know one of my the craziest memories I have is going to the day home got hit with the IED and this is this is quite a bit later and at this time I am on a Mark 19 I had gone to the Mark 19 um I don't I think I sent you guys that picture but that was the first day I got in the Mark 19 and uh in that fastback and I no armor we you know we didn't have any armor and uh obviously any humvies but I had no plate I had no you know they're like completely covered now you see like all the armor everybody has I'm just up top like hey shoot me in the face and I remember like ID sweeps too on that thing. You know you just sit on your strap you know you're gonna get hit. It's like which vehicle's gonna get hit and so you just kind of hold on to the mark hold on to your your little spindle there and um but yeah we had gotten uh home got hit and who else somebody else got hit that day as well yeah that would have been the end of April early May yep yep and I was I believe I was in the lead we had to evacuate them we were bringing them to Junction City I believe and we're hauling down Michigan like going 60 miles an hour and it like just pedal to the metal trying to get them going and I'm I believe I was I thought I was the um the rear vehicle and on rear and you know anyway Contrader said he saw it so I must have been the lead vehicle because I had to put my weapon forward too because they got I you know I thought they got a little ahead however um we're going the wrong way in traffic down Michigan we're going the opposite way so we're flying down and I mean cars everywhere swerving cars going so fast and a car pulls out doll's my driver at the time um and my A gunner and he pulls out and or he's going forward and a guy is looks the other way in traffic he doesn't think to look the other way because you know who's gonna be coming the other way in traffic and we hit him and just head on T-bone this guy. There's nothing we could do we couldn't swerve in the other lane there's a car next to us and we just T-bone him head on and meanwhile they're all back with that vehicle that their vehicle was broke down. Um the other two vehicles bring them to one or two vehicles bring them to um Junction City home and and early and doll and I are stuck there. It's just Dahl and I our vehicles completely broke down. A lot of people don't know this story our our vehicles completely broke down. We have no comms our comms are down and we can't call for help we can't do anything and we're stuck there in the middle of the street in the middle of Michigan by ourselves and so it was we were like okay this is it this is how it ends. So at first no one had stopped no one had noticed one vehicle stopped to see if they needed help. Dahl I believe had had some prior medical experience and he hopped out the guys were you know they were they're pretty messed up everyone's alive but they were you know kind of bloody he helped one of the guys uh had a dislocated shoulder and I remember him laying the guy down I'm on the mark I stayed on my gun and I have I at the time I had uh M16A4 and I had my pistol and I put that on top of the Humvee and then I had I took I literally took frags off my off my prepared for the alibo at that point. It's I dude I thought this is it this is the end. And so I'm like and I had an ACOG and I was like I was like I can't shoot them with the mark they're too close but I will like they won't explode so I won't hurt I was like I'm just gonna have to put them through their chest I don't know it's if we get if we get worked here. And so um he pops this guy's shoulder back in I stay up top there on the mark and we're stuck there. We're there for probably 45 minutes to an hour and no comms I don't know if they called it in I we have no idea what's happening. And so there's a whole there's like a huge housing tenement kind of thing there and it unloads all of the people they hear the horns like stuck on they come out and to their vehicle they come out and everybody surrounds our vehicle there's people stopping now with their with cars on Michigan and we're so we're surrounded by people and I'm like okay and that's like you know there's five minutes until actually actually um somebody came but and so we're completely surrounded and I have all my stuff they're all screaming at us in Arabic. I can catch every other you know like a word here and there and I'm like I'm yelling in bata in bata in bata get down on your stomachs obviously no one's listening to me and um and and I'm I'm sitting there with my mark and I remember and my I'm bloody all over so I had blasted my face on the uh on the handguard so just I'm all bloody down the face I hit my thing I in fact um contradicts after afterwards Dr. Chair said I broke it it was broken. I hit it with my Kevlar in my face and I'm there's blood all over my face too um never did get a purple heart for that but whatever um anyway um yeah so we're we're surrounded I'm like this is it this is how we go I'm just gonna start I'm gonna tell them to get in the vehicle and I'm gonna start throwing frags and and they start like they didn't rock the vehicle yet but they're starting to push doll um and then it's starting to they're like on the vehicle at this point and not like on top of it but they're right next to it. All of a sudden out of nowhere we see Humvees coming the right way in traffic um down Michigan and we're like screaming hey hey hey and the U-turn is Gunny Mararke the U-turn pull up everybody jumps out of the vehicles poke weapons weapons going um weapons ready anyway and they're getting everybody back I was like oh my god dude I have never been happier to see anyone in my life dude and uh I were you I don't know if Nylon was with them you went to was that you maybe I don't remember rescuing you so no I don't know yeah yeah and I it was I was Gunny Marokke was there I I remember and I everybody just surrounded him everybody they got everybody back uh we hopped in a vehicle with somebody else and I they came and somebody came and towed it out but uh yeah that was that was terrifying I think I heard that one before I was gonna say I don't I don't remember this story at all that's why I don't think I was involved. Yeah if you get Dahl on he'll it was it was that was it we were like okay buddy what do you what do we do? He's like I have no idea I said all right what we're gonna do is you're gonna hop in the vehicle if they start getting crazy hop in the vehicle I'm gonna start throwing frags dude yeah not much else to do at that point no absolutely not and that yeah that was that was uh that was terrifying yeah we were ready and I yeah I remember I don't know what I was gonna do with my my little beretta and my episode 16 to start going to town but yeah that was I'd never been happier to see Gunny Mararki.

SPEAKER_01 53:20

If you like what you've heard this is a multi part episode make sure you listen to the rest of the story