You Can't Plan War - Paul Hess (part 2 of 2)

Paul Hess part 2, reminds us that there is no polished and shiny versions of the Ramadi 2004 story: famous names showing up on base, mortars landing close, and memories that still feel foggy or sharp at the wrong times. We also talk hooch life, boredom, friendship, and why coming home can be harder than anyone expects. 

• Dan Rather at Hurricane Point 
• Oliver North riding along 
• First Sergeant Ellis as a leader 
• Early Ramadi operations, the Farhan brothers raid
• The strange guilt 
• Bug Hunts: loudspeakers, exhaustion, and long days 
• Weapons caches
• Hooch life stories, punishments, and bored Marines with tasers 
• Care packages, and the small things that got us through 
• Getting out, missing the guys, and the long road 

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Transcript

art Two And A Rough Memory

SPEAKER_02 0:36

This is part two of our conversation with Paul Heff in Mobile Occult Tune One.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

With Cackly stuck in my head, I I remember a similar night in Mason, probably the same time of night where uh I even dismounted further away and was was with him. And uh uh you've probably gotten plenty of these stories where uh where you gotta drop trial. Like it's time, there's no you know, I remember Cackly, right? Like the we come to a screeching halt and it seemed like the longest shit ever.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

You know, it's like when are we gonna keep?

SPEAKER_02 1:11

Yeah, that's a side effect of eating all the memories, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 1:18

Lock you up forever, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

And and and when it's time with those, nothing's stopping it.

SPEAKER_03 1:24

No, that's a fright train, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

Yeah. Uh, you know, um, so we've mentioned Oliver North a few times. Uh so how about uh, you know, a couple names wise. Remember when Dan Rather was on Hurricane Point?

SPEAKER_02 1:41

So I don't remember when he was there. I do remember seeing the videos. I did not ever see him, but yeah, I do remember he came.

an Rather At Hurricane Point

SPEAKER_00 1:48

Yeah, so this was nuts. So we were in front of the castle or the palace, and we were actually, I believe, in some type of uh even formation. I think someone, you know, some type of word was being passed. Rather's right there with the uh Humvees. Excuse me, and we're taking we start like the mortar fire starts to come, and so man, we pissed off Meraki because a lot of us took off running to the hooch, ready to like thinking, you know, we're gonna have to load up and and and right, go find them, whatever. And uh man, we got an ear full of like you never fucking run, right? Like blah blah blah blah. Um, but yeah, like uh I always thought that was cool. I mean, growing up, right? Like to me, Dan Rather was the face of the news growing up. That was my childhood of like just if something was happening, it was his face on the TV, and so I remember thinking, damn, if he's here at Hurricane Point, there's probably a lot of things we haven't been told. Yeah, you know, uh, so I that always, you know, I always thought that was super cool, and then of course, so Allen North, you know, he was there, and uh, so he literally was in my vehicle. Turn jumped in the jackass, the high back. The uh what were we? Uh what black one, black two, black three, red one, red two, and then the and then the Hum V. Uh, do you guys remember? Um, or the the high back was um Anthony, Sergeant Anthony. He was the vehicle commander, and then the call stuck to that vehicle was jackass. Yeah, so Kern jumps in with Jackass, and Ollie North was riding right behind me. And we're out in the city somewhere, and mortar fire, like and it's landing pretty close. Dude, it was the coolest thing. It was like he was back in Vietnam. He's calling the show, you know. Mortars, mortars, pull off here. You know, we pull over, we dismount, and it was just the coolest thing. Like hearing him like some type of switch within him, like uh switch, and like just verbally hearing him. Uh, it was I was like, Yeah, wow. Yeah, that was pretty cool.

SPEAKER_03 4:18

Um yeah, yeah, he whipped it on in Vietnam, so yeah.

liver North Rides Along Under Fire

SPEAKER_00 4:26

Uh, because there's what there's pictures of him on bass and you know having his Fox News microphone, and I think there's plenty of you know pictures floating around of him taking pics with guys. Um, so it was kind of cool, you know, to have some profile names like that around and uh big time um man, here here's something for you. So uh because those some of those pictures I remember seeing with Ollie North over at the uh the palace, um the moment that I realized like wow, at the time, first sergeant Ellis was a bad motherfucker, was just you know, I'm over there like at the uh phone trailer or whatever, calling home, right? But like I just saw this guy from one problem to the next problem to the next problem, just getting shit done. And I didn't even know his name at the time, but I just remember thinking he's a bad, like he he's a badass. Um and so of course you got the stories from him and Booker, right? Like uh um, you know, some of the things that went down in Ramadi. Yeah. Um some of the guys can tell those stories better than I, but uh yeah, like this this jumps ahead, not of Ramadi, but but Ellis, you know, that's the toughest one that that um that hurts uh that that I struggle with to this day is uh it was either same day or day before uh with the suicide bomber. Uh we were we were moving from um a temporary fob to the abandoned train station. And he and I uh I was a sergeant at the time, you know. There was definitely a lot of um he respected me a lot, and uh we probably talked for 10 minutes about what he was gonna do after the deployment, and uh, you know, talk walk me through retirement and what his kids were up to and stuff, and uh, you know, that I still have a tough time compartmentalizing that. Um but uh yeah, so but it was cool getting to see him like do his thing and in Ramadi, right? Just to see him uh what do you guys remember from him even prior to Ramadi? Like uh prior to Ramadi, um was he ever in weapons company with you guys, or was he always at the at the uh battalion level?

SPEAKER_02 7:02

So if I if I and I could be wrong, but if I remember correctly, he was uh in charge of Calm over at Recon.

SPEAKER_00 7:11

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:11

And then he came to us and went straight to be the first sergeant in charge of the HS battalion.

SPEAKER_03 7:17

Yeah, yeah. That is also my memory.

SPEAKER_02 7:20

Yeah, and so we had no real interaction with him. I I didn't before Ramadi, I don't think I had even really met him much, and then I ended up meeting uh him and Major Wiley and all all the all the HS, like all the headquarters people during Ramadi, like going over to the palace for briefs. I don't think I knew anything about him before that.

SPEAKER_03 7:41

Yeah, I know him a little a little bit more just because I had 81s has a little bit more of a a calm situation, so I was in the comm shop a little bit more than right than the average bear due to my position, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

Yeah, I remember when I watched him just jumping from fire to fire. He also like just he was relatable, right?

SPEAKER_02 8:02

Like, oh yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 8:04

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:06

Um very relatable. He's a great guy.

SPEAKER_00 8:08

All right, guys, help me out, steer me in the right direction. Where's where's the where's the good spot to go?

irst Sergeant Ellis And Loss

SPEAKER_03 8:13

Let's well, let's jump into the let's jump into the uh the battle, man.

SPEAKER_02 8:19

Yeah, so from my my notes here, the battle of Armadi, people were moving into the city, and the first casualty we had was from my platoon. We had Morris that got hit then basically the night before. The next day, our platoon went out to search the area where Morris got killed and do some other stuff, and then your platoon set up for a cordon and knock, and you guys ended up uh picking up the Farhan brothers who were from the Republican Guard. They ended up being some of the leaders of what was the insurgency that was moving into town. Any any remember any memories of uh that particular raid? Because that was that was kind of a pivotal moment as far as that goes. And those guys were a big deal. I not a hundred percent sure because I haven't checked the deck, but I believe I remember people saying they're in that deck of cards of like the most wanted people, or at least one of them was.

SPEAKER_00 9:16

Uh-huh. Um and that that mission, like this is uh that first mission on the sixth, like that cordon took place like like early, right? Like super early in the morning.

SPEAKER_02 9:30

Yeah, you guys, but before yep, right before the sun came up. You guys were pulling in with the high value targets when the sun came up.

amadi Opens With A Casualty

SPEAKER_00 9:37

Yeah, what I remember is I'm further away from the vehicle and just up against the wall. And you know, it was it was even before we left Hurricane Point, it was imminent, right? Like you kept getting the word, it's imminent, it's imminent. Um, so that was another kind of real moment of where your imagination starts to just like you're running through, you know, a million scenarios in your head of just being ready and like you know, what you might see and all this. And I remember up against this wall and um, you know, a star cluster or whatever, right? Like, and just to be in battle and to see it live for the first time, that sky light up like it was daytime, right? It lit the sky so bright that it was like I remember thinking, okay, now it's imminent. Like yeah, you know, everybody knows we're here for sure. Yeah, we just turned on the lights, yeah. Um, but the funny thing is a lot of that is so foggy that because we were disappointed, map one was disappointed when when everything started to go down with the line companies, we had this feeling of disappointment that we didn't run into anybody anywhere, and it was this feeling of like we didn't help. Um so there was a lot of dis disappointment from that because at some point the other part was other weapons company units were getting called out, right? Like, I don't think we were on we definitely weren't on day missions, and I don't even know if we were on QRF, but like finally, like uh platoon after platoon keeps leaving, and finally we're up in the chute, lined up, right? Like uh vehicles ready to go running, and then it never happened, and so we we were really disappointed uh that day. Um but my experience goes from uh I feel like it would have been the same day when Echo took all those casualties, and we were out driving around trying to see if we could, you know, find stragglers or just you know, whatever. And then in the Sophia area down by the uh river, there's like um we see people crossing the street, there's at least five or six guys, uh, but you know, they looked like young 20s teenagers, like young. And we barrel off onto the side street, and I dismount and I run up there and lay down, and I'm watching these guys go across this field, and it was like they had a cooler, and two people are carrying it, right? Like, like if you have a heavy cooler, one on each side, and I'm not liking the way, you know, because they're just coming down from this road, it's like, holy fuck, were they just burying IEDs?

SPEAKER_02 12:59

So or carrying ammo. That was a that was a very common tactic for carrying ammo, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:04

Okay, so you know, I'm seeing this happen, knowing just what happened earlier in the day, and we're pissed off because we didn't feel like you know, we uh were able to help, and I'm watching this happen, and uh, you know, and then they cross that field and get behind the corner of like a concrete wall, and then they're sticking their head out every few seconds, sticking their head around, and I'm like, what the fuck is going on? You know, and uh, you know, and and this is a part where whoever's laying next to me, I I told them the next motherfucker that sticks their head around the corner, I'm dropping their ass. And uh someone stuck their head around, I I pulled the trigger, and uh needless to say, you know, no one ever uh stuck their head around the corner again. Um good, but yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So um I think some of that memory there fogged up a lot of what went down, you know, all of that other stuff's foggy, right? And the fact that we didn't weren't in a huge firefight that uh during it. Um so that's kind of my recollection. Uh and then fast forward to fuck a couple days later, right, at the ceremony at Combat Outpost. That that sticks out, right? Like, you know, uh those uh the the makeshift um what would you call it? Uh uh with the with the rifles and the dog tags and the boots.

SPEAKER_02 14:52

Um yeah, the memorial ceremony out there on that was Easter Sunday.

SPEAKER_00 14:57

Yes, yes, yep. Um so yeah, it's man, it's hard to piece all that together, but that's definitely a you know, a big memory. I the overall tone though for me is still you know, even though 2-4 kicked some major ass, you know, we took we took a bad beating and uh and the yeah, and there's still this feeling of like man not feeling like uh I wish I could have done more, right? Like there's a sense of of fuck.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

I I think that is a more common sentiment than you realize, and uh just from interviews that we've done so far, but even just conversations I've had over the last 20 years with other people, I feel like almost almost everybody says something like that, and they have some random story, very similar to your guys poking their head around a corner, where they're like, I should have done this. That probably would have made a difference. Like, I should have done this or I should have done that, and it's weird to me thinking back because I felt that way too, but but trying to zoom out 10,000 feet and look at it from above. You were in heavy combat, man. You it like it's not like you weren't ever, and given any other deployment, everything you guys did would be considered heavy, heavy engagement, a heavy combat for any other deployment. So just this particular deployment being like, Oh, well, I didn't shoot anybody on the sixth, is it's a weird thing. I don't know, it's a weird thing, but I've heard that from a few people.

he Farhan Brothers And Imminent

SPEAKER_00 16:45

Yeah, it's heavy, it's guilt of of just you know, oh man, we lost so many guys, you know. Like, yeah, but no, that's a good way to it. It's kind of like you said, it's it's sometimes you gotta take the macro, you gotta bake back up and take the macro for sure view for sure. Um trying to think of any other uh things I might have glazed over that I was wanting to tell you guys about that little time period there.

SPEAKER_02 17:14

Um well now I I know maybe you didn't go out on the sixth, but did you guys end up going out on the seventh? Like, I I feel like I remember you did go out on the seventh.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

And that's what the story I told, that's probably when that seventh, yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:28

And then the eighth wasn't much, it was Operation County Fair. I don't think anybody got into anything. Like we found a couple field hospitals, there was nothing much after that. But the next one was the the first big bug hunt, and I feel like you guys were on the inner portion of that. Okay, uh maybe not, you you'll have to tell me, but that was April 10th, and so that was when every single platoon was out that was. I mean, even people that were on guard, we left a skeleton crew and we took everyone.

SPEAKER_03 17:56

But a lot we put them well, we put a motor pool on the towers.

SPEAKER_02 18:00

That's what I mean.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

We took everyone. So um with Bug Hunt, like, was that a day where a lot of stuff was happening? Because I'm mixing up, like I'm thinking back to Joker One, the book, and like you know, like I think I've read it and I've listened to it, and so like I'm kind of getting all these things intertwined, but you triggering saying uh that we were um on an interior um situation there, I do remember I was with the truck, so I was I was dismounted and and keeping more of a watch out, but man, I remember the guys in the platoon, the dismounts were tired because it just house to house to house to root. That was a long day.

SPEAKER_02 18:48

It was for 14 hours, and if you heard any line company guys say it, that was their day of retribution, really. It started out as soon as the sun rose. The we had the army trucks with the big speakers on top, and we had the the first truck was the interpreter who was yelling over it, you are a bunch of cowards, you we're gonna, you know, all kinds of stuff in Arabic, right? And saying, like, you know, come out and fight us like men, you can't fight us because you're too weak. And then the second truck playing heavy metal music, playing uh Slayer and Drowning Pool, among other songs.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Man, I that's the I don't wow, that that's something I learned new. And man, to go back and to be a fly on the wall and that and to get to hear that, dude. I'd be I'd pay money to yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:40

Well, so we weren't at my particular platoon was on the south end of the cordon. Um musler's platoon, sledgehammer was uh the west and north corner. I feel like map three was the north edge. I feel like you guys were part of the inner element, uh, but mostly it was the line companies. But I feel like you guys were the inner element and you were attached with uh the CO. And the only reason why I say that is because the CO was got on that stupid uh speaker at one point and started yelling himself. So Captain Weiler.

SPEAKER_00 20:12

I love it. Um yeah, that's what I remember is I remember, I mean sticking with the truck so much, like I remember days, you know, eight, 12-hour days at a street corner, right? Of like switching knees, you know, left knee, right knee, just so but I just remember like the guys just one of the tiredest I'd ever seen, the guys for sure. Yeah, um yeah, no, like when you think about like say like Joker One and hearing you guys talk, like that's the day, right, where uh the taxis were going nuts. Uh um you know, insurgents and taxis and taxis getting lit up and and just uh mass chaos around the whole city, right? Yep. Yeah. Um were there any from bug hunts? Bug hunt didn't produce any major uh cachets, that was more or less just an all-out fight, right?

SPEAKER_02 21:20

So some of the first big weapons cache that we found were from the bug hunt. Like uh that was where we found a few houses that were stocked full of things and more medical supplies, and we found a lot of dead and wounded. Uh later bug hunts, the second, third, fourth bug hunt. Uh, I think the second bug hunt officially was June 1st, but other operations that were similar to that were the other big weapons caches. You guys are the ones that pulled out all the stuff on June 1st, if you remember that one. I I specifically remember you guys posing with all the weapons. So that's why I remember you guys did a lot of the door kicks on that one.

Contact By The River

SPEAKER_00 21:56

I remember just seeing the line from in front of the Hooch, this uh the CO hooch, uh, the whole sidewalk lined with weapons. That that still sticks out in my head. It was just like, holy cow. The other cachet that sticks out in my head. And I might be crossing wires with Barwana, but I remember one time we found these three, I don't even know how you would describe them, some type of barrels, big ass barrels buried. Just filled to the brim near like a uh body of water. Um, but that's what blows my mind hearing you say earlier, like, you know, oh well, coolers very common to transport, you know, uh uh ammunition or weapons that way, like just the different means of just you know stockpiling weapons and uh yeah. I remember Saniago took us over, remember the makeshift range on Hurricane Point or little shooting range, and one day we fired AKs, and uh I remember the handguards just getting you know hot as a mofo within you know, you you fire a few rounds, and those handguards are just on fire. Yeah. Um yeah. No, uh so here's something that's fixed out, and it would have been after later in the summer, but if it's I've hit one of those points where if I don't tell you, I'll forget. Um so we were on QRF, and I think the army was coming down Michigan, and they uh they got flanked. Um uh you know, they they got caught in a in an ambush, and so we went out there and so we flanked the ambush, and um I actually left the vehicle and joined up with a few guys. This would have been after we had combat replacements. Oh, okay, yeah. And so, you know, we're working our way, and you you know, the muzzle flashes, they're up in like a like a like a three-story building, and they're just you know firing down the street. Um, and we're working down both sides of the street along those concrete walls, and uh we get to this one corner where we determine, you know, like it let's put an AT4 into the building. We gotta, you know, slow these guys down. Um, and so our uh combat replacement, Sergeant Meta, uh, he runs out in the middle of the intersection and he has an AT4 and he can't get the sucker to cock, you know. He's he's messing with it for a while, and uh he looks over at me and he's like, Yes, waves me over, like all shit. So I run out there and uh I'm thinking to myself, if he can't get this thing, what the hell am I gonna do? Like, what do you know? We're wasting the time, right? Like, what's going on? Like, so I started tinkering with it. And you know, those those uh like the tow missiles and the AT4s, they're riding around in these dusty Humvees. Well, of course they're in awful condition, right? Like, because they're filled with sand.

SPEAKER_03 25:16

And some of them were old, yeah. I was old old, they're from the 90s.

SPEAKER_02 25:20

Yeah, we had two, we had two tow missiles that had 88 stamped on them, and I was like, okay, okay, yeah, fuck it.

SPEAKER_00 25:27

We'll fire them. So I'm messing with it, and you know, the muzzle flight, right? The bullets are whizzing, and all of a sudden I hear a click. I was like, oh shit, throw it up on my uh shoulder and meta, you know, backflips around secure, boom, you know, put a hole in the building or whatever. I can't hear shit, right? Like you don't know and throw in hearing pro for three days. I couldn't hear anything out of my right ear. And so, you know, by the time uh I don't think we had to push any further because at that point other dismounts had already gotten there and you know, like they they had fled or whatever. Um, but I just remember taking that shot and the hole not being able to hear, and like the drive back, you know, we're taking every fucking side street you can imagine, left, right, left. And every time Dan tells me left or right, I have to ask him three times, huh? You know, god damn it, you're never gonna fire another AT4 again.

SPEAKER_03 26:43

This is the second time that there's been some sort of like story about getting grounded from combat as a punishment. It's like like like like you did like the the the tool of of uh of of performance for uh for a marine in the infantry is like, well, god damn it, you're not gonna listen, you don't get to fight today.

aster Memorial And Lingering Guilt

SPEAKER_00 27:08

Oh, it's hilarious. Um all right, I gotta do a comic relief because this is another, and if I don't tell you now, I'm gonna forget. So one of the best memories, uh, funniest memories, and we still to this day on the thread, it comes up probably at least once every, you know, twice a year. Um you know, we do our shifts up on the bridges, uh two marines per uh and Harris. I don't know if Harris and Pace were bridge buddies or not. Wait a second. Liszt might have been Harris's bridge buddy. Um, anyways, Harris is on uh the canal bridge, and for whatever reason, he drops his Kevlar into the canal. But it's stuck, it's in an area where you can get it, right? So uh they relieve, they get relieved after their four hours, and it's like Harris, like you know, he comes to the bottom that you know, where the fuck's your Kevlar? Right, however it goes. And um all I remember is him showing up at the hooch and Sonia goes hot. Oh man. So they made him, he had to uh he had to shower and sleep with his Kevlar on. And and I still remember going in to brush my teeth or whatever and just seeing seeing Harris in the shower, washing his armpits, water's just running down, he's got his Kevlar on, and looking at him in the rack, sleeping with his Kevlar on. Because they got it out, somehow they they they fish it out of there, you know. So I don't know. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 29:03

The cleanest Kevlar in the company, man.

SPEAKER_00 29:07

What about look? I know you guys do this. I need a one of your all's funniest stories you guys remember from your tour. What do you got, Blake?

SPEAKER_03 29:19

Oh man. Um well I don't know if we I don't I can't remember if we've if this one's come up before, but um we ended up we ended up having some tasers over there and um and uh board Marines are always a a liability. And uh we decided to start tasing each other and see like how much it would hurt in this one spot or in this other spot. And um I decided to volunteer to see if we could light up a fluorescent light bulb if I held onto the posts at the either end and then got tased in both arms and both legs to see if there would be enough current to turn the light on. It it doesn't work. Um I I just got fucking tased by four uh tasers.

SPEAKER_00 30:06

And uh what's it feel like?

SPEAKER_03 30:08

What but but I will also say we decided to do it safely. I was in my silkies, but I was wearing a Kovlar and a flak jacket because if you remember at that time, you were for whatever reason in your head, as long as you're wearing a Kevlar and a flak jacket, nothing would actually really hurt you. Oh, and so that was like a little so so I was standing, I was sitting in a I was sitting in one of the chairs that we stole from the army, and uh, I was sitting there holding, holding onto the ends of it while I got hit in both legs and both arms. Um so you doing that is the uh is the is the same as as happy Gilmore turning in the batting cage and and taking the balls when I was Oh wait, and the second part to that is the other thing that we tried to find out is what would happen, like what how far would it go through stuff. And I remember I put on my I put on my boots and then tased myself in the back of my heel to see if it would go through all of the all the layers of leather. But what happened was is that it didn't make enough of a connection where it hurt there, but I could feel the front part of my brain pulsing with the with the uh with the the click, click, click of the uh the tape. I could, but it didn't hurt anywhere else, but I could feel it in my I could feel it in my head. And I was like, oh, this isn't good. That's important.

SPEAKER_02 31:34

So now you understand when the VA says not service connected, this is why, because they know what kind of shit you were doing.

SPEAKER_00 31:45

This is the stuff when I think about movies, I think about some of the best content from our time over there is all of the funny shit. Oh, absolutely, 100% of the content.

ug Hunt With Speakers And Metal

SPEAKER_03 31:56

Well, my favorite, my favorite is the hooch stories, man. Uh fuck the war stories, honestly, at this point. Like they're they're great. I mean, I think they need to be told, but my I get way more joy out of hearing the hooch life stories.

SPEAKER_02 32:11

Well, and you were talking about characters. Now you were in a you were in a small squad bay with a hell of a lot of characters. You had Pace, you had Garcia, who is weird as shit and definitely funny, and you had Pacheco and all these other like I mean, the guys that I knew, all crazy people. Not to say, I mean, you had all kinds of other people too that were hilarious.

SPEAKER_00 32:36

Yeah, a lot of characters. Uh, you know, as you mentioned, like Garcia, like Garcia was the obvious funny, right? Like, like everybody knew this, you know, he was a nut and funny, but like somebody that was sneaky funny, uh it was almost like it took him getting in a hooch and like being in a situation like this to be like fuck it, you know, like I'm just gonna it was Celise. Oh yeah, and Celise and Garcia together were nuts, man. Um but uh oh god, I remember this one time Sergeant Saniago on his hooch, he didn't have a bunk above him, right? Like it was it was a bottom bunk with no top rack at all, and he put mosquito netting around his hooch. He's uh I guess he said there was bugs in there. I don't remember mosquitoes or anything in the hooch, but anyways, uh Stevens, Jesse Stevens got in a fight with somebody. I don't know if it was Harrison or who, but they got in a fist fight and the blood went flying and got all over Santiago's mosquito net. Man, you should have heard all his precious mosquito. He was so fucking pissed off, you know. Like it's just the voices, right? You can still hear them in your head. Um but no, you hit the nail on the head with uh Kevlar and and Flackjacket. You're you were you were uh you know invincible when you had that on. And so that's one of my biggest memories of hooch life, is just like it was like it almost feels like you spent half your time in your hooch, in your your underwear, you know, skivvy shirt, flat jacket, and your your Kevlar, you know, like the little TV in the back, sitting on MRE boxes and sitting in your um uh like your camping chairs, right? Um it's uh a lot of good memories. Um gosh, I'm trying to think of like actually good stories though.

SPEAKER_02 35:02

Um well I'm curious, what did you personally do to pass your time? Because some dudes played cards, some people watch movies, some people wrestled, some people smoke, yeah, some people smoke cigarettes all day, every day.

eapons Caches And War Trophies

SPEAKER_00 35:14

So, you know, the four years prior to joining, like like I feel like I was late to the party with like lime wire and and music and everything. So so you know, I enjoyed that a little bit prior to the military. So then over there, dude, I had an endless library of like access to people's CDs. So I was taking everyone's CDs and I took my laptop, everyone was burning it on my uh on my I remember enjoying that, right? Like uh burning music, but you know, loved watching movies with the guys. Um where my head goes with Hoot's life is like like I don't know about you guys, but for me, the number one thing that like for like to get through the heat and uh and with being depleted as salts was uh Pringles. Pringles were like like care packages, right? Like that was the huge thing of uh hooch life, right? And like all the stuff being mailed, but it was like oh, there was something about salty foods over there hit the spot with all of the salts you were losing and sweating out, yeah. So it was Pringles and Gatorade, man. Those two things were like heaven. When that showed up in the hooch, oh you felt like you were getting something, you know, you felt like it was a good day when you got that. Um the other thing that sticks out though when you ask, like, what are people doing? Remember how everyone uh not me, uh, I wasn't a lifter. I I enjoyed calisthenics, but like, man, people start hitting the gym, right? Like it didn't take long to get bored out your butt. So the guys were lifting, and uh um it's funny. I I was a big runner prior to the military and had gotten out of had actually gotten out of shape during soi and and uh you know all the training you're doing, you know. Uh um, anyways, long story short, I started running a lot over there. You might have remember seeing me and Gutty running around the base, and that nut started putting a sandbag in his pack and running. We'd we'd go run, we'd go run six miles, we'd do like 40 laps, run six miles, and he'd do it with a sandbag. That's awesome. It was nuts. We got so competitive over it, like you know, we got mad a couple times where we didn't want to talk for a while because like we wanted to win that race that day, you know. But you know, like you know, stuff like drafting. Like, I I would draft him until the last lap. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 38:07

That's good shit. You trying to save a little of the gas tank just to just to beat him on the last lap.

SPEAKER_00 38:14

Um, yeah, no, Hooch Life, man, like that made it all worth it, right? Like, that's what got you through. Oh, yeah. Uh oh, hell yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:24

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 38:25

What what what about uh well? I just need to listen to the podcast. That's what I need to do to hear about uh I'm I now I'm anxious to hear about what everybody else uh some of their stories.

SPEAKER_02 38:39

I imagine it'll be interesting to you. Who was uh who was sending you care packages? Were you married at the time, or was it your mom and dad?

SPEAKER_00 38:46

Or no, so uh I dated a girl all through college and um uh broke up right at the end, and then right at the right somewhere during SOI, we got back together and uh uh but a typical uh what do you call it, John? Uh your John letter, your John. Yeah, yeah. So um, you know, getting care packages left and right, and um, but you know, I get it. Like uh, but got the letter, I think it was on my birthday. Um, but yeah, it was I'd say it was mostly her and her family. Um yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh and then remember the trailer with the phone calls? That was a high remember calling cards back in the day.

SPEAKER_02 39:36

We oh yes, oh a ATT made a billion dollars off of off of us at least.

SPEAKER_00 39:43

I don't know about everybody else. And then I still remember when I first linked up with the unit, there were still active uh payphones, yeah, yeah, right there on base. Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:56

Um, that was how you called a cab because it was no Uber or anything. That's how you called a cab to get picked up at SOI.

SPEAKER_03 40:03

I was a big money corporal. I uh I paid for internet in my uh in my room, and I had a phone and internet, and that's that's fancy living. That's fancy living.

SPEAKER_00 40:15

Yeah. Um I'm racking my head trying to think uh if I covered my basis on a couple stories I was wanting to tell you.

SPEAKER_02 40:27

Well, I'll cue you up with a few things, and if you think of it, we can go back to it.

SPEAKER_00 40:30

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:31

Do you remember winding down and trying to get out of there? The transition away from Ramadi.

SPEAKER_00 40:39

Remember when we, you know, the window period over at the army base in those wooden boxes. Uh yeah, Junction City. Yeah, CB houses. What they call CB houses.

RF Ambush And The AT4 Shot

SPEAKER_02 40:50

Yeah, that the CBs built those specifically for us or anybody who is transitioning through. We call it the CB huts or the CB houses, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:59

So however long that period was, I remember I remember getting my hands on a Playboy and I'm flipping through it, and it's this university edition. I'm like, hey, this is a uh girl I went to high school with. Like, man, she looks great.

SPEAKER_03 41:21

Well, especially at that point in your uh in your life. Yeah, no shit.

SPEAKER_00 41:26

Um no, that sticks out the CB houses. Um, you know, I think it was that whole thing of like, man, let's just let's get home, right? Like, like you don't think you need to at the time, you just you just want to get home, right? So um I remember that feeling slow, um, and just being happy, right? Like you're just pumped, you're like, man, like it's someone else's job now. Like we did our part. Um and I remember, you know what I do remember getting back on base, like uh, like we turned our weapons in, right? And didn't we march up to the to the frame deck? Yeah, I I remember being bummed not having anyone there, like I didn't have you know any family or friends waiting on me. So I was always kind of, you know, I felt really good for everyone else that that had folks there, and you know, to see the turnout, but uh you know that stuck out. Um, but that's still kind of a fun memory, man. Walking up there and like being cheered on like that, and just that was cool. Yeah, I don't know though. I I think I'd zoom out further. And like for me, man, I really struggled like the like the first you know, five, six years being out, like it really sucked not being in a work environment with like the dudes, right? Like with your people. That's 100%. I know I'm kind of like jumping further out from no no no, no, that go and go for that, man. But that took some time to really, you know, kind of just process through, right? Like, like you couldn't make it go away, it just lingered. Um you know, I didn't, you know, of course, you know, a lot of guys became you know firefighters or cops, and and I think that uh you know there was some degree of that, but you'll never replicate. You can you can't ever replicate it, no matter how how hard you try.

SPEAKER_02 43:36

No.

SPEAKER_00 43:36

Um but yeah, I I struggled with that, you know, and I think I still do actually like uh miss it for sure. Um what else with uh now you just did the four years?

SPEAKER_02 43:51

You got out in 2008? Yep, yep. Um or 2007, I guess, right after Barwana.

SPEAKER_00 43:58

Yeah, uh I think uh did what a lot of guys did. You save up enough time to, you know, probably got out maybe a month earlier, so um but um what was I gonna tell you? Got out. Um 2007. Um Yeah, no, I d I totally missed where I was headed. Um I hijacked you, sorry. You're you're good, man. Um when did you wait, what about you guys? When did when did you get out?

SPEAKER_02 44:34

Was it right after um it was it was dis December now 2000 2004?

SPEAKER_00 44:41

Okay, okay. So it had to be really bittersweet for you guys. Like uh yeah, like hell yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:48

Well, no, well, I mean, yes, but I mean I'll I'll speak for myself. That was not good because there was no decompressing and that first 18 months to two years, uh, you know, all of oh five, all of oh six. I was if I was sober a day, I mean I uh I that that might have been just because I didn't get any uh a paycheck and I didn't have time to buy my beer. Um but yeah, no, it was it was good to get out. Um went to school and met my wife and stuff like that, but I was not in a good head space.

ridge Duty And Kevlar Punishment

SPEAKER_00 45:24

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Uh um that's where I was headed earlier. Was that I man, I really that those last six months, I was really on the fence. It was like, man, do I stay in? Do I get out? I remember that inner struggle, that that was heavy and and lasted a long period of time, you know. So um the funny thing is, Southern California got to the point to where it felt more like homes than my home on the east coast, just because of just you know, family drama boundary uh issues, just you know, sure what what everybody's dealing with. Uh and but the thing that tipped the scale for me deciding to get out was you know, my grandparents raised me, and I felt like I owed some time back to my grandmom for the four years I was gone. So that tipped the scale a little bit. I was like, you know, let me get back and kind of uh you know, reconnect and all that. But um that everyone has their story, right? Like that's a big part of it is is getting out and and reacclimating and and yeah, man, you know, I'm good to hear that you know you're able to get through those couple years you're talking about. That, you know.

SPEAKER_03 46:43

Yeah, well, it's been a journey. I mean, I'm I mean that wasn't I mean it wasn't just two years, that was just two years of in particular. Two years of 20, two years of it was there's a there's quite a few stories from that time period that I'm not uh well there's stories, let's just put it that way. But it's taken me, you know, quite a few years to even get, you know, I'm in a much better head space, an emotional space now. Fortunately, I'm getting married and having kids. The having kids was a big part of me being like, man, I gotta get my head screwed on straight here, otherwise, I want to be a good dad. And if I wanted, I would have not been able to show up like I want to.

SPEAKER_00 47:23

So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh you know, you know how like uh profanity is just a part of of uh the culture. It's funny. Like, and I grew up around it like uh as a kid, and so it was in my DNA, but it was like the moment I had kids, it was like a light switch. It was weird how kids are you know the factor for so many things, right?

SPEAKER_03 47:50

Yeah, 100%. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:54

Um my kids are getting a little little older, not old yet. I have a 15-year-old and uh 11-year-old, almost 12, and I I swear in front of them now, but I did not up until this point. And so it's it was like, ooh, I get to do it again. It's been it's been 15 years.

SPEAKER_03 48:12

I can properly convey my thoughts now. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:17

Yeah. Oh man. Uh no, this is um this has been a pretty awesome exercise of just, you know, uh when you're when you when you when you really dial in, it's like, dang, there's things that I haven't thought about. And and then hear you guys talk about things that I haven't thought about in so long.

asers And Other Bad Ideas

SPEAKER_02 48:38

It's well, it's that's a good, it's a good transition to my next question while we're we're kind of rolling into about two hours, been two hours. Uh looking back 22 years now, almost 22 years on the dot. Today is March 8th. So you rolled across the LOD sometime around now, 22 years ago. Uh, what does all this mean to you? What do you tell people about it? About this time period back then, about Ramadi specifically, or your Marine Corps career at large, either one.

SPEAKER_00 49:11

Yeah. Um, you know, like it dawned on me probably sometime within the last year. Like, that was an adventure, man. Even though it comes at an awful price, right? Like, such an awful price, but what an adventure. Um and and and there's guilt. Anytime I feel like that, I feel guilty for feeling like that, right? Um, but like it goes back to what I said earlier about you'll never be able to replicate those years again.

SPEAKER_03 49:55

Not even closer.

SPEAKER_00 49:56

Uh you know, and we spend we spend so much of our life trying to do it, right? And thinking that maybe it's possible. Um but the older I've gotten, those were just amazing years, and and and and I hate that it came at such an expense. And um the two reunions had been very therapeutic. Um I agree. Yeah. Uh but when people tell me thank you, like I tell them, you know, I thank them and tell them it was a privilege. Like I feel privileged that I was able to be a part of that time period, you know. Um yeah, man. Uh how do you guys what what what let me hear you answer that question. I'm I'm intrigued to hear hear what you guys have to say.

oming Home And Missing The Guys

SPEAKER_02 50:57

Neither of us try to make this podcast about us in any episode, but I'll I'll give you mine. I'll I'll leave Blake and stay off the hook for this one. I've struggled with it for 20 years, no different than I think anybody else. I've said many of the same things that you've said uh just now, and over the course of the last couple hours. It is quite literally the absolute best times of my life and the absolute worst all at the same time. It side by side, sometimes even in the same day, sometimes even within a couple hours of each other. I struggled after getting out of the Marine Corps with exactly what you just said. I never could find another work environment like that. I can never find another interpersonal environment like that. I've never made friends like I've made in that moment. Uh, I mean, I Blake is a perfect example. We have been best friends since then, and I I imagine unless I die tomorrow, we will be for another 20 years. Uh, it won't change. It's something that other people can't understand, living that close to mortality, what it does to your memories and your feelings and your life going forward. And as you used a perfectly poetic phrase, what an awful cost for such a beautiful gift. I would agree with that a thousand percent.

SPEAKER_00 52:23

Yeah, yeah, no, like yeah, you uh you know it's why I'm an accountant, is because I'm pretty shitty with words. Um but like you you tied it up in a pretty good bow there. Like that's yeah, yeah. I I echo those sentiments a hundred percent, man.

SPEAKER_02 52:45

Nice man.

SPEAKER_00 52:46

I really appreciate uh what you guys are doing. This is uh this is powerful stuff.

hat It Means After 22 Years

SPEAKER_03 52:53

Thanks, man. I appreciate you coming on and sharing your part. Uh I know it's everybody has different levels of comfort with it, and uh, we definitely have some of our guys that we're having to encourage a little bit more than others, and it's always nice to be able to have I I appreciate how willingly and how uh how how well you shared all of your stuff. So thank you.

SPEAKER_02 53:17

Damn, it's been good, and it's been good to catch up. I've always I always liked you, so that's why the same thing I told you when I messaged you. Like I always fucking liked you, just come talk to me.

hanks And Subscribe Reminder

SPEAKER_03 53:27

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