Constant Combat

Courage From The Messy Middle Ground - Reagan Hodges (part 1 of 3)

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We bring on Reagan Hodges and talk how a hard-charging Marine who struggled in garrison becomes the kind of fighter everyone counts on when Ramadi turns. We talk through the training, the chaos, the losses, and the moments that still follow you home. 


• bouncing between ranks and learning to own consequences 
• pre-deployment workups
• why the command keeps him despite repeated trouble 
• the Sergeant Major Booker confrontation
• hazing, pressure-testing, and building calluses in infantry culture 
• first impressions of Ramadi
• QRF response and a graphic truck scene
• how constant contact distorts timelines and memory 
• Farhan capture, detainees under fire, and the uglier logistics of the fight 
• April 6 escalation, IEDs, and what it shows about insurgent tactics 
• Lioness attached to the platoon and the reality of women near frontline combat 


If you like what you've heard, this is a multi part episode. Make sure you listen to the rest of the story. 


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If you are a member of Weapons Company or someone with a story about Weapons Company 2/4 in 2004, please come tell some stories with us - 20 mins or 20 hours! Help paint the canvas of an archival story for others to know what it was like. Contact us @ RamadiPodcast@gmail.com, or via the podcast website above. 

All music used with permission by soundbay: https://www.youtube.com/@soundbay_RFM 

Meeting Reagan Hodges

SPEAKER_01

Cool, man. You need very little introduction, but go ahead and tell everybody who you are.

SPEAKER_02

My name is Reagan Charles Hodges the First, also known as the magnificent bastard.

SPEAKER_01

How are you guys doing? What was your rank in 2004? And uh what platoon were you with?

SPEAKER_02

I my rank kind of varied. I went um all across the board, like a two or three time, I was a three-time Lance Corporal, um, two-time corporal. I got out as a sergeant, but I didn't pick that up until until basically I was almost out. Um I was in Weapons Company 81 Platoon.

SPEAKER_01

And you were with Rainmaker, yeah? Yes. Nice. Nice, man. And what rank were you in when we went to Ramadi? You were.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I got busted down for getting all that trouble, the fights and stuff. Before, I mean, right before we left, I got busted down and I was a Lance. So when we went over there, you know, I had corporals under me. You know, Calvarone, Leilong picked up the corporal, and I'm a Lance, you know. Um so they got meritoriously promoted pretty quick out of it. That was a good thing. Um, but that that's so we went over there.

SPEAKER_01

I was a Lance corporal. Nice. Yeah, you're I mean, well, you talk about it a little bit. What uh what do you remember of the workup before we left? I remember um the training was pretty crazy.

Ranks, Platoons, And Getting Demoted

SPEAKER_02

It wasn't crazy, it was good training. The craziest part to me was and what I remember most is knowing. We're about to go to Iraq, we're getting all these young kids, we're getting all these boot problems. We ended up getting a lot while we were, I mean, just weeks before leaving, didn't we?

SPEAKER_00

I'm pretty sure we did. Yeah, we got we got one like right before.

SPEAKER_02

I I um I remember having to go to court a lot, Lieutenant Dobby having to take me to because I spent you know two weeks in jail before we ended up getting to go. Um so we got real um acquainted that way, Steph Soncook, and them having to take me to court a couple times, making me get dressed up in my uniform. And but as far as the training goes, I remember, I remember what where'd we go? We went to the Air Force Base. We did some training with the um who what special force it was uh who was that we did the training with?

SPEAKER_01

There was British Special Forces. British Special Forces, some Scottish as well, but mostly the Brits.

SPEAKER_02

But um, you know, I always, I mean, the training I always liked. I like doing the mount with Gunny Maraki and a lot of stuff like that. Um, you know, I knew him when he was a sergeant back in 3-4. So we went back away. So I always loved that guy. Um I thought the training was decent. I thought we could have ramped it up a little bit more, but we didn't have a lot of time. Um, I I was always about the training in the field. I was not much of a garrison marine. I was a um I was a LIBO risk, you know. So I always felt like I did better in the field. Um, you know, as far as that goes. But I did have to miss some field training because of my court days and stuff.

SPEAKER_01

So well, it's interesting, it's interesting you mentioned that. What I imagine, no, I don't really need to know the details of your arrest and everything else. I don't think that that matters, to be quite honest. If you want to tell it, tell it. No, no, go ahead. But uh I am very interested in your relationship with the command uh surrounding this, because this easily could have just been like, you know, fuck this guy and we'll kick him out. But they didn't do that, so I'm curious how that worked out.

SPEAKER_02

So it's a crazy story, man. Um yeah, so I got I got into a couple of fights when I was told to stay away from some people, and I didn't. Um, so I got in trouble. And you know, every time I've been NJP'd, I'm not even one time my chain of command, like, we're not really NJPing you for this. We're doing this because of all stuff you get away with. That was my first enlistment, which I understand. So anytime I got in trouble, I observed it. So I was never the guy that cried about getting NJP'd. I'm like, sure, I made that decision beforehand. I was gonna do what I was gonna do, and um, I was gonna have to deal with the consequences. But the consequences to me didn't scare me away from doing what I wanted to do at the moment. That's just part of being stupid, I guess. But it I mean it got it got pretty bad though. Um it got to a point where on my uh one of I think my last NJP, um I was getting brought in to the um Sergeant Major, Sergeant Major's office, which we know he is one of the greatest as chewers that have ever caught. I've had him as chewed a lot by Sergeant Majors, but um Sergeant Major Booker has a gift of getting in your face.

SPEAKER_01

I like that you're a connoisseur of aschewing.

SPEAKER_02

That's fantastic. I mean, I can tell you all kinds of sergeant major stories, but um he chews ass on another level. But I remember in in the process of that NJP, this is how crazy it got. And this was just weeks or months before we were leaving, you know.

Workup Training And Court Days

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Maybe a couple weeks, you know. It was it was a few weeks because I remember it was less than a month. I remember yes, anyway, so it was a few weeks.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it was pretty tight. So, and I just remember sitting in that NJP, and and like I said, Booker can really get after you. And I got to the point where I was like, I'm not gonna listen to this no more, even though I should have just showed up and listened. So to make a long story short, you know, there was um cook was in there, Lieutenant Dop was in there, and they were, you know, they were a witness to it. But um it ended up, the discussion ended up getting to the point where Sergeant Major Booker told me he said, you know what, maybe I should just court marsh you and and we'll um maybe we'll see if you have the balls to go outside the gate with me. And so I stood up out of my chair because I was at the position of attention and I got first, I just sat down. And then that really made him mad. That's when he got up and came and got my face, and then said, We can go outside the gate. And I stood up and I said, We can go right now. And he just proceeded to tell me to shut up and sit back down. So I sat back down and so I didn't know what was gonna happen, you know. I mean, I feel like I was on the verge of probably getting kicked out. I don't have no idea, but he was mentioning court martial, and I was like, Well, if we're gonna go there, we might as well have it out, you know. But thank God he didn't. Um, the funny thing in that, in that part, which, if there's anything funny about it, was right after I got through, losing my rank, and I put on Lance Corporal, he made me put on the Lance Corporal chevrons right there. He went to go do something. I'm standing in the hall, you know, outside of his office. He's got the door shut and everything like that. As I'm sitting out there in the hall, you know, I used to look down. I noticed that there was um somebody was checking into the unit. You know how you gotta wear your alphas and you're checking into a unit and all that. So look down the hall and I see this guy walking down, checking in. And as he gets closer and closer, I'm like, you gotta be kidding me. Then we make eye talk eye contact, and who it was, it was Staff Servant Walker from Echo Company.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And so this we go back. He was when he was a boot, he was uh, and I was one of the senior guys, he was he was one of my roommates back in 3-4. And I used to tease him. I used to, you know, I like to mess with people. Yeah, I have a history of that. And it's just, I was the same way when I was a boot. I'd call a staff starting a boot and you know, look at me like, what? You know, I would take whatever they're gonna give, but I was just that guy for whatever stupid reason. So Walker's walking down the hall, and I notice him, and he looks at me and he's like, we just forget, you know, the situation has changed. You're he's not my boot anymore. Like, you know, he's a staff sergeant walking down the hall, and I'm a newly demoted Lance Corporal. And for people that don't know any better, like they're in the hall, and he's I'm like, Walker, what's up? You know, he's a staff sergeant. You don't talk to them like that, right? He comes up and he hugs me and he's like, dude, just still a Lance Corporal. I said, Well, I said, You're not gonna believe it. But he goes, Um, I said I told him, I said, I just got in JP. And he goes, When? I said, like five minutes ago. He goes, I think that's what was happening to you when you got out of the record the last time I saw you. And so we just laughed and um and it was a really good time. He ended up, I well, I can say it now, but uh when I was on a strict and he'd come by and drink beer with me after my last sign-in, and we'd just shoot the shit about the old days, and then we would have like serious conversations about um about going to Iraq and being deployed and everything like that. And uh and those are great conversations, and and lo and behold, you know, it it's it's a con it's a um it was a deployment he never made it home from. So it hit a lot different after the fact, you know. I appreciate those conversations with him a lot more now. But um You know, that's what was happening to me before we we were gonna go on that deployment. But the last thing I wanted to do was miss out on that deployment. That was what I felt like I was born to do. That's all I was gonna be good at as far as the Marine Corps goes, like you said. I'm not necessarily the garrison type.

Sergeant Major Booker Showdown

SPEAKER_00

Um well I think that's I think that's part of what you know what started the conversation is going is that the the command knew that about you, Hodges. Like you think so? Yeah. Oh, I I know so. I mean, because you you were yes, you were uh in garrison, we were all very, very concerned what was gonna happen next. But even but like even the story that you told is a great example of and that you were bringing back a lot of very fond memories for me because that's exactly the there's a part of the story here that is is is true, which is no matter what happened, you were you wrote you were rolling with the punches. You never you never took the blow and sat down and was like, and and and and and now I need to give up. So you know what no matter what was happening, you if if you were stepping up and stepping in. And you were knowledgeable too. And so like we never, I never needed to worry. I mean, we were in different, you know, platoons over there, but you know, we were always together. We were always put before that. I never had to doubt whether or not you were going to do the right thing in the moment. Like if if that the fight, if there was a fight going to happen, god damn it, I knew that Hodges was going to be the first motherfucker swinging, um, whether I was wrong or not. And so you knew that over there too. And so I I think that's why things went the way that it did. Because I like you said, when you got in trouble, you never you never tried to make an excuse for it. No. I mean, you didn't want to get in trouble, and so you would do whatever you could to get out, you know, like not I never felt sorry for myself. Exactly. But you never, but once you're like, I you know, all right, you got me, you know. And so I I think that that carries a lot of weight. I mean, even as an an a parent now, I mean, I that's the same way with my kids, who's like, you know, they can be the biggest shithead in the moment, but like when they're owning up to their stuff and like, all right, all right, you're like, all right, I can start working with you. And you're not, you know. And I think that, anyways, I'll I'll digress.

SPEAKER_02

Well, it was funny because when we had one of our reunions, and and my boys, you know, my boys are 21 now, and they're both in the Marines. Um, one's in the nail academy, but he'll be going to the Marine Corps shortly here. Um Sergeant Major Booker, at our last reunion that we had, um, my my enlisted Marine, um, Jaden was there, and um, he's stationed right there at Delmar. So that's where we're having our little beach party, you know.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So he came out and he got to see a lot of people and meet a lot of people and hearing some stories. He didn't hear a lot because growing up, I didn't really want him hearing some stories are okay, but we we have a lot of stories that we have to keep quiet. Because they're just at the age they wouldn't understand, you know. Right. And um, and they got older. I, you know, you you always hear somebody telling a story about, yeah, I'm got in a fight with my sergeant major. And like 90% of the time, they're full of shit. Like it never got to that. Well, we really did. You know, me and Booker almost were fucking going to blow. But Sergeant Major Booker told that story to my son, and he just looked at me like, oh, I'm like, don't even get any ideas. Don't ever which I don't have to worry about you for him. But yeah, it was it was a wild time. I had a I had a wild time in the Marine Corps, but it was the best times of my life. And, you know, some were the worst, you know, losing people that are brothers and stuff like that, some of the worst, but I don't regret one second of any bit of trouble that I got into. I don't regret it. It's just me being me. And I was never gonna be the, you know, I was never gonna be like the Sergeant Garcia um in garrison. Like he was that guy, you know, um in the field. I had my style and it worked best for me. And it was pay probably just tailor-made for a situation like Ramadi. But, you know, so be it. I took advantage of it the best that I could have and um thank God for it, you know.

SPEAKER_00

Did you end up doing any division schools prior to going over to Ramadi?

SPEAKER_02

Or did that um squad leaders course? I did um something else. I can't remember. Infantry squad leader is league, is that what's called, I believe, or something like that. And then um I don't remember, I didn't do any um anything pertaining just to Ramadi or just to that deployment coming up to Iraq.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Um like I said, I was in a lot of trouble back then. We were going to court for months back and forth. They couldn't send me anywhere because you know they had to get me yank me out of the field of that Air Force base. We were doing all the mountain training and all that stuff at to go to court.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, no shit.

SPEAKER_02

But we did get to listen to uh me and staff sergeant cook got to listen to the Super Bowl on the way there because it was playing on the radio.

SPEAKER_01

But I would imagine we're maybe we'll get lucky and we'll talk to uh Sergeant Major Cook, but it I I would imagine we'll never get his at full opinion. But I'll double down on what Blake said. I know that for sure that Dob and Staff Sergeant Cook at the time, or Sergeant Cook, or whatever he was, Staff Sergeant Cook, I guess. Picked up Gunny and Vermont, right?

SPEAKER_00

He did.

Leadership, Pay Problems, And Hazing

SPEAKER_01

I know they valued you, and I can remember a specific story why, and I'm I'm gonna steal two minutes and tell it anyway. There was a time when your ass didn't get paid. I remember First Sergeant Lee fucked up your pay before we got first sergeant Mac. And I remember you walking out in a pair of jeans with your hands in your pocket to formation, and you're like, Well, I'm not getting paid, I'm not working. Yeah, and I I remember laughing, I was laughing so hard I could barely stand up. Yeah. Because he was about as red as a Coke can. Uh, and he was he was screaming, and and I was like, actually, that makes sense. You're like, I got my paycheck right here. It says zero dollars. I made zero dollars for 30 days worth of work. So we get zero um amount of work out of me. Yeah. But in that same vein, later that day, we had some newer Marines that needed to get their weapons out of the armory, and then we were gonna go do some kind of gun drills. I don't know what the hell for. And you went and dressed out and taught those Marines how to go through the gun. And it was free, which is even fucking funnier. Yeah, yeah, but it was but it was key. And I remember laughing with you all the way to the Army. Like, I can't fucking believe they're not paid. You're like, ah, that fuck first, he'll fix it. Don't matter, you know, like and I but you did. You ran those Marines through those gun drills and taught them all kinds of shit that even I didn't know at the time, and it was it was it's a good example of how they know when it came to it, you're actually there for it, even if it was bullshit.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I I love anything to do with war fighting, teaching somebody how to get better at the the job of you know, either killing your enemy or keeping your Marines alive. Like I love that part. The rest of it, you know, I take it and go with it, you know, but you know, it is what it is. And I felt, you know, there were young Marines. We had some new ones coming in, and and I could take them and fuck with them. Like I like to fuck with people. Um and it was kind of like, I mean, straight up hazing, to be honest, but it was just it was all in good, right? I mean, they didn't know it at the time, but I have a sick sense of humor, and and you're learning something. Um I was take I I did take pride in in in teaching them stuff like that. But I also took pride in just trying to make them as calloused as possible to make them or break them. I'm gonna callous them up or they're gonna break and I'm not gonna have nothing to do with them because they're gonna end up getting somebody killed or not being strong enough. And it was just fun to me too.

SPEAKER_03

I'm not gonna lie. It was just fun.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I was trying to explain that to somebody recently that that's what it's definitely what military men do, but it's what a lot of men do. You see it on construction sites too, and you see it in sports. Oh, yeah. We're gonna fuck with you in the social aspect, because if you're gonna break now, you're gonna be worthless when the pressure's on. And I and I I want to make sure I I weed that part out right now or build it up or whatever we need to do. So if these terrible jokes or a little bit of uh physical hazing is too much for you, well we're we're gonna work on that. Yeah, I mean that was just part of kind of like part of who I was.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, whether it was good or bad or indifferent, it just that's just how how why I'm still kind of wired that way. But I try to, you know, I try to tone it down as much as I can now. Um try. I do tone it down. Everybody thinks like I'm still the hostile. I'm like, you have no clue. Been around back in the day. It's like a mild deep version of me.

SPEAKER_01

Well, let's fast forward a little bit. I I actually know how you got up to Ramadi because you were in my convoy. And I remember this specifically because I had a notebook and I had written down what vehicle numbers everybody was in and who the fuck I could count on, because I was the first vehicle in. I had Staff Sergeant Coleman's vehicle right behind me, then there was two seven tons, then it was your vehicle, and then Blake's vehicle was right behind yours. Blake so what you're yeah, yeah. And I was like, okay, if shit hits the fan on this convoy, who who do I need to like, where can I find support? And I remember that I remember that being very important. Like I wrote all that shit down.

SPEAKER_02

I appreciate that. I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_01

I well I nothing against the line company dudes, but they were up 12 feet in the air, up on the seven-ton. I believe they could shoot over the side, but as far as maneuvering, they were gonna be trapped. And so I just was trying to make plans. What was your first impressions when we got uh up through the convoy and up to Ramadi?

SPEAKER_02

Um it's I don't really, it's it's hard to explain. Like, you know, when you first get there, like I was in awe. Like I as sick as it sounds like, I wanted to be there so bad. That's why I volunteered to be on the convoy to go. I remember Staff Sergeant Cook pulled pulled, because I was volunteering for everything. He's like, Why do you want why why do you want to get up there earlier? Why do you? I was like, I don't know. I just want to I need to find your driver that's willing to go. And uh I want to be in that convoy. He's like, why don't you just leave it be? I'm like, I don't know. Like, I just I want to be there. I want to get there before the rest of the guys. Like, I want, and I ended up finding Savage said he'll go with me. I couldn't have been more happier with that pick because the way I'm looking at is like, if our truck breaks down, who do you want to work? And I'm right, Savage. You know, Savage has a saw. Like he's ready, he's got a lot of ammo in a saw with him. And I remember loading up with him with um, we had a we drank a warm case of Mountain Dews on the way up there. And um I loved it. My first impressions were it's kind of like, I don't know, like I was excited to be there, but at the same time, you're just looking and you're like, you're trying to figure everything out. As much as you think you're tough and as much as you think you're ready for a showdown like that, you you really don't know. Right. You have no idea. So there's a little like you're about halfway scared, about halfway, you know, ready to rock and roll, but you're a hundred percent clueless. Right. You know.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02

So it was um it was I felt like I was where I needed to be, but at the same time, I don't care how comfortable you think you're not a hundred percent comfortable. Right. You don't know anything yet.

SPEAKER_01

So well, and then uh looking at the timeline, so I know a few things about where you were, but not everything. You'll have to fill in some of the details. But so we staged March 5th out in the middle of that desert, and then March 6th is when we went over on the first convoy, and it was us and golf company. Golf company was the guys in the seven tons, and it was specifically us three in this that are on this recording, so it makes it easy. And then it got real pretty quick. Uh, your platoon was one of the first that had a significant casualty uh from an IED, and that was March 20th. There was the the bike IED that hit Warth and wounded him enough that he had to be Avaced.

SPEAKER_02

It took his eye, didn't it?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Correct. Yeah. And then right after that was the first uh the first KIA that we had, and that was uh Lance Corporal Dang. He got killed in the from the RPG. And I know you were there for that part, so I'm I'm interested in your your take on what happened.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, that that situation right there, um You know, there's there's things that happen that will just give you chills to like your bone. You know. Uh the the Dang situation was is definitely one of them. It's um I I don't know what day did you say it wasn't the 20th?

SPEAKER_01

22nd was when Dang got hit.

Convoy North And First Ramadi Shock

First Losses And The Dang Mission

SPEAKER_02

So here's here's what I know about that situation. It was it was at night. I know that we had got called for the QRS. We were rolling out there as fast as we can. We get out there. We knew something went down, and we were going to do basically like a rescue mission or just get a truck out of there or something like that, rescue the truck. And well, we get out there, and well, let's back it up. Even before we get out there, I get in trouble for slapping Le Long in the face. Now, you gotta understand Le Long is a corporal. I'm a Lance Corporal. So somebody walking by seen that. He didn't have a flashlight, so I had to let him have mine. So the little shit like that I took real serious. Like you can do anything else, but when we're going on a mission, have your shit. Like that was the stuff. So I slapped the hell out of him. Somebody walked by outranked us. I told him to shut up. You can't tell a staff NCO that when you're a lance, but I did. I said, We're going on a mission. So we got out of there. So that's how it started. There was drama before we even left the gate, you know. So we get out there, and then when we get out there, all the lights in the city shut down. Like it goes black. And then so the flashlight thing comes into effect now, you know. So I don't have mine because I had I dished it up to Dirty Steve. And um and that's that. So we knew we were gonna have to go out there. We get out there, we see a truck, the truck that got hit, um, got attacked. Um it was out there and it was it was pretty destroyed, and we're gonna have to tow it back in. While we're hooking up and everything like that, all of a sudden the loudspeaker comes on. You know, the mosque is blowing that loudspeaker, and they're chanting something, saying something. So I forgot who the interpreter was, but we asked him, like, what's going on? He goes, like, basically said they were calling for a jihad and calling for people to come out and I guess attack us in the streets or whatever. You know, so we try to hurry up and we're getting out of there. Um when I get into the truck, um, you know, the wheels are just torn apart. Like they're both face, the front, the front wheels are facing inboards, so you're not gonna be able to tow this thing normally. Well, you can barely crawl into the truck because it had rolled and the top was crashed down and um windshield was was smashed. And so I'm getting into the truck, and it's like I said, it's pitch dark. You can't see nothing. And so I had already given my my flashlight up to to lay along. So I didn't have one, but I had a camera that Captain, I believe it was Captain Harris, had give had gave me and to take video and get pictures of of different events and you know, we kill somebody, but you know, maybe we can identify somebody from that. But if not, if you don't have time to take, you know, you're not always gonna have time to stop and take pictures. So I had that camera, and this was what, 2004. So you don't have like the good kind of cameras that you can have that like now. If I would have had my phone now, it would have been like amazing. You have a flash of light all that. But on my on the camera that I had, so when I sit down in the truck, I can't see out the windshield. I'm like, what I'm trying to rub it, but it's so dark, you you can't see anything. But I just know I'm rubbing this windshield and I can't see something's on it. So I take out that um issue camera that I have, and then in order for the flash to come on, you had to actually take a picture. You couldn't just turn the flash on and leave it. You had to you had to hit the hit the button to take a picture, and then the flash comes on for about five, three or four seconds and then takes the picture. I'm trying to see why I can't see off this windshield. So when I um when I hit the the camera to take the picture, you know, the flash comes on, and all I see is this young man's brains all over the windshield. And it just immediately, you know, it just I have this sick feeling in my stomach. And I was and I I I can't explain it, but I was just in that moment, you know, I I got a picture of his brains all over the windshield in the door, you know, the teeth and the hair fragments, and and I've never seen anything like that, you know. Um but what what hit me like a ton of bricks was I remember saying to myself, thinking to myself, I said, somewhere thousands of miles away back home, there's the family. His family has no clue what I'm looking at. They have no idea the bad news that's coming their way. And I remember just thinking, like, I wonder what they're doing right now. Because in just imagining like what it's gonna be like for them to hear that news, and I'm looking right at it. It just, I still like that's one of the few things that it's a feeling that I'll never be able to get rid of. Um even when we were when um they were writing a book, and um Greg was um he had got in touch with me and he had heard about that story, and he was asking me about it, and I told him the same thing, you know. And he wanted me to send him pictures. I said, I have the pictures of it. He goes, Can you send me the pictures? And it's I've never sent those pictures to anybody. I've showed people, a couple of a few people, Marines and stuff like that, but it's when I'm holding my camera, when I'm holding it, and I don't send it to nobody. And I'm the reason I didn't want to send it to him is because I was thinking to myself, and I was right. If this guy posts this in the book, it's gonna be something so horrible for his family to see. Nobody's seen those pictures other than when the few people that I showed, and it's on my it's on my phone now, but um it that was one of the things that just that was my first like holy crap. You know, other than McPherson getting his jaw blown off and things like that. Um and then but that was a um on that specific uh situation, uh that's one of the things that um that happened and getting in that truck. And I'll never forget that that I'm thinking about it right now, like it just gives me a chill. And um I still hurt for his family that day, you know, just knowing something the their nightmare is about to come true. That news is coming down the pipeline. Um I'll never forget that. Um even if I wanted to, I never could. But sort of things like that that just make you so much more grateful for what we have now. I mean, but that was that was one of them, that was a big moment for me in that on that situation, on that particular mission, you know. And there's a lot of situations that happened in the course of that deployment, but that was like a um one hell of a wake-up call.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you mentioned McPherson. That was McPherson was March 13th, which was about nine days prior, eight, eight, nine days prior to that.

SPEAKER_02

And I imagine I don't know, but I imagine you were friends with McPherson because I was I was great friends with McPherson because when I come to Too Far, I started off in golf company. Ah, yeah. I was in his platoon, and he's a Texas boy, he was, you know, and so we you know, Texas boys always think well, we know we're low tougher and everybody and shit, but you know we uh we always link up, you know. You think, you know, but um McPherson's one of the guys I love the most, you know. I mean, I love all everybody, but there's some I love more than others. We ain't gonna deny that, right?

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, that was a wake-up call. McPherson's, you know, jaw getting blown off, and then and then the next thing we run into, heavy like that was um for me, it was the dang situation. I just felt to this day, just it's a horrible feeling that I have when I think about that. Sitting in that truck by myself, seeing that, and then knowing, like, wow, wow. That was a crazy situation.

SPEAKER_01

And so you and if I remember the story right, you ended up being the one that drove that truck back, right? Well, because we towed it.

SPEAKER_02

I was inside the truck, I was the only one in the truck.

SPEAKER_01

You were steering it because they they towed it with a toe strap. Because I remember it coming back into the motor pool.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, it came in and it was it was destroyed. Yeah, I was in that truck when they pulled it back.

SPEAKER_01

That's a that's a hell of a thing to ask of somebody to sit in somebody else's spot.

SPEAKER_02

I don't think nobody even really knew. Like the people that had known exactly what had happened were already gone. So the QRF came out, we knew that was the truck, but we didn't know anything else until I sat in it.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_01

Well, yeah, they had already scooped up and and left as far as as all that went. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

All right, it is what it is. No, it it is what it is. I mean, it's it's a horrible war is hell. And that's part of it. That's part of it. So I had a real good, I think, I think because it's like me going to combat as sick as it seems like that was always what like that was the goal for me. That was the goal. That's why I joined the Marines, only the Marines. Um it's it's what I felt like. You always feel like that's your purpose, that's your calling, even you know, if it's not. But I just felt like that's so my mentality was was pretty. I was older than a lot of people. I was like 27, 28. I wasn't 19. So I felt like that was to my advantage. Um, I feel like a situation similar to somebody not really prepared for that, it could really mess them up in the head to seeing that. So, you know, is what it is.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's interesting you say that. Uh, I think most infantry guys would understand exactly what you're saying because it's like training, you know, I don't know, it's like sitting the bench on a football team forever and then never going to the Super Bowl or whatever, but then your team goes, right? Like that you always want to be the one that goes, you don't want to be the one that that gets left behind. And we well, and we had that in Okinawa where we were all watching watching the invasion on TV. And uh yeah, that's that's I mean, it's a sentiment that I think would be shared by all of us, but you also don't know what you're asking until you get there. You don't.

SPEAKER_02

That's why, you know, the people that pray for war, I'm like, be be careful what you say. Right. You know, you can I think it, you know, I was a guy that prayed. If there's a war, please let me be a part of defending what I need to defend in in fighting alongside my but don't pray for a war.

SPEAKER_00

You know, I think it's something else in there too, is is you know, we you were saying it earlier, even Hodges, that you know, part of part of our training that especially that I think made 2-4 particularly well suited for Ramadis is that we were we hammered the get it done. You know, whatever whatever needed to happen, you just do it and you step into you don't it's not that you're mindless with what you're doing, but you don't think about it. And so as time went on and the war progressed, I think we we put some systems in place that would maybe help prevent some of the things that we saw and had to do, like brought brought that down. But at the time, there was no other option. I mean, like what else was there to do?

SPEAKER_02

And if you're in the fire, you're in the fire, buddy.

SPEAKER_00

Right. And if you started trying to negotiate like who was gonna have to do it, or like well, it's the what's the best way to do this is like, no, fuck, we are in the middle of of some shit. I, you know, like I don't know if you were asked to, or if you just, I mean, assuming annoying you, you probably just jumped into it and was like, let's just go, guys, let's get out of here. And um, we'll, you know, we'll deal with the we'll we'll deal with it on the other side when everybody's safe.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I mean, it's it's if you think long, you're thinking wrong in those situations. So um just it is what it is, it's in front of you. Get it on, get do what you gotta do and move on, or or the next one gonna be laying there for somebody to come up and have to do the same thing is gonna be linked to you. So get up and move on.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Do you remember? Uh we kind of jumped directly to uh that that first one, but uh prior to that, do you have any specific memories of any of the earlier missions, like trying to get your feet underneath you, um how some of those felt, or is that or are some of these the bigger QRF responses the first ones that you kind of remember?

SPEAKER_02

It's you know, the thing it's it's so crazy for me because when you guys started doing these interviews, I'm I'm I'm listening, even when I read the book, there's a we went through so much stuff, like I forgot about a lot of there's a lot of crazy stories. I'm like, holy shit, I forgot about that. It's like in in a normal life, a normal person would be like, how in the hell could you forget about that? Right? Well, because we had about 45 other incidents working, you know what I mean? It's so my dates and like my timelines, they're horrible. I can't remember, I can remember, you know, different like what went on in those situations, but like a lot of that, like I can't tell you what day. You're like, hey, this happened on this day. I'm like, awesome. Now I know. You know, the book helps me with that. But I'm like, how in the hell does Nihilina must remember all these damn days? And I'm gonna go back, I'm like, well, the cousins, well, they're a lot smarter than me to begin with. So that has a lot to do with it, but nope.

SPEAKER_01

We just we just did our research and I I write very detailed notes. That's uh I I learned a long time ago. If I don't write it down, it doesn't happen.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and I don't really like to read or write, so that was that was that was that was the first second, I probably said it was a second gut punch. Other than McPherson first, and but this one hit a different way, you know, because you're it's wild. Imagine, you know. Yeah, I was literally trying to wipe the windshield clean and it was just not knowing what was on there. Yeah.

How Combat Warps Memory

SPEAKER_01

It's it's interesting that uh, you know, when we when they we were talking about it at the time, people were trying to say, oh, the Battle of Ramadi, it probably kicked off, you know, on the the night of the fifth, right, when Morris got killed. That was probably the first thing. But realistically, this timeline's very short. Probably Dang was really the first group of insurgents that had come out from Fallujah and set up. They got Dang, and then Echo, not long, a couple days later, Echo killed those four guys with mortar gear in the back of their truck. And then the next day was when the Blackwater contractors uh got killed, or within a couple of days, maybe not the next day, but a couple of days. And that's when we started hearing the mosque go off uh to kill Americans. They were they were, you know, it was in the middle of a night mission. We were searching a house that ended up being nothing. And I know Rainmaker was there, and they were they were chanting, you know, kill Americans and all that stuff. And the and the interpreter's like, we gotta go. And it's like, yeah, we don't go. We we stay.

SPEAKER_02

We drive around and we do movement to contact. People are like, what does that mean? We drive around and wait for somebody to shoot us or blow us up so we can kill them. Otherwise, we're never gonna find these people.

SPEAKER_01

Yep, that's exactly right. Yep. And so uh right after that, um, yeah, really, really the next big things that that uh come up is uh the can't command element got ambushed on April 1st, and that was with Sledgehammer. It was not with Rainmaker. And then uh again on April 4th is pretty much when like it started building. So basically you had they were surrounded starting to surround Fallujah for Operation Vigilant Resolve. You had the first armored calves surrounding Baghdad, and then we all woke up on April 6th and and uh everything blew up for us at the same time.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, yeah. I mean, when you say blew up, that's an understatement.

SPEAKER_01

So the very first part of that, which uh I've heard a couple interviews with current with at the time, Colonel, now General Kennedy, uh their big plan was to maybe they had heard rumors that there was insurgents moving in. And so their big plan was to try to cut off the head of the snake and catch the Farhan brothers, and that was map one that went out. But uh I got funny stuff. I was gonna say you had a little bit of a part of that, so let's let's hear it.

Farhan Capture And A Dead Detainee

SPEAKER_02

Um I just I just know that he um I gotta be careful here. He ended up in my truck, and um and you know, we were asking him some questions, you know, and um I thought for sure I would be able to get that guy to say something, because you can always get somebody to say something, even if they're lying to you. But that that guy was in the back of the truck, and um he was he was hard as an elf. He was he was like you gotta respect, even though you want him to cut his throat right there, but you can't legally. Um there's a little bit about him that you have to respect because he was true to the cause. He was not gonna say a word. He was stone faced. He was he was the real deal. Um so we get him in the back of the truck, and I forget even what day that is, but um he won't say a word as we're driving though. I think we we were in that neighborhood. We had him in the back of the truck when we're we and we had we had literally on V's stacked with dead bodies. Dead bodies, I have pictures of it. They I mean stacked with dead bodies. On the way out of that neighborhood, we we get attacked again. So we're we're we got him in the back of the truck with some dead people and some other people that are on. We have another guy fileed. He's he's in the back of the Humvee laying down. As we're leaving, we're going, you know, about as fast as one of them weighted down old Humvees could go, which isn't very fast, but fast enough to do this. Um, as we started getting shot at, I'm I yell at Caleron, you know, everybody stop, hit the brakes. We hit the brakes, and one of the dudes that were flexicuffed back there, one of the terrorists, I guess we'd call him, um, goes sliding to the front of the cab, hits his head, and breaks his neck and dies like that. And we were just like, we were laughing. We're like, you gotta be kidding me. Like that, like that's something you're never gonna see. You know what I mean? And then that happened. But the only time that Farron said anything is when we had him laying down underneath Bowers' machine gun, 240. And um, when Bowers was getting on that thing, lighting, lighting it up, all that hot brass was coming down on Ferron right then. So um that got him squealing, but he still wasn't talking about anything that we wanted him to talk about. But um, yeah, I'll never forget, I'll never forget that. Just and we didn't really know at the time how big, how big of a target that guy was. At least I didn't.

SPEAKER_00

Um He was in the deck of cards.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, he was, he was. So I'm like uh proud to say that that guy was in my truck and we were, you know, getting him out of there. Um Matt Leon's the one that got him, though, correct? Yes, yeah, they're the one that pulled him out of the house. Yeah, and then uh so we were there for for that right after, and then um he was in the truck, and I just remember we had we had been moving bodies, like taking the dead bodies and and dropping them off at the IP shacks, the Iraqi police. But it got to the point where we were in these neighborhoods and we realized that these neighborhoods are not helping us. These Iraqi police are not helping us. So we said to hell with it, and instead of taking them to the Iraq, we we started, we took them up there and we dumped them off right in the middle of the road. Just stacking bodies in the middle, literally stacking bodies in the road. Before we got out of there. Um But that Faran thing, that was a that was a wild situation too. I mean, there was a lot of wild situations, but um, that was pretty crazy. So that's a that's like that's a good story to tell, you know. A good war story, right? Right.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, he even even your point about stacking the bodies, the uh it just always brings me back to I I have such a hard time believing the final numbers that they claim was a part of that first fight. I I this it's so upper underrepresented because I know I I know like just you're 100% right.

SPEAKER_02

You're a hundred percent right. 100% right. There were a lot, there were there were bodies everywhere. I mean, we were scooping them up, leaving some. Um, I mean, I've got pictures and video. So I know, you know, I feel like those numbers were underrepresented. But there's a lot of times we would have, you know, meetings, after action meetings, and go in there, and I'm like, dude, I forgot to tell them about you know, the people that lay long killed. I forgot to tell them about. About the people that, you know, the uh Martinez shot up with the salt. So there's, you know, you know, a lot of that when you go in, like you need to really to be able to tell what really happened, you need a couple of days to process and tone down. Right. But it was hard to to go over those stories, like, because we didn't get to do it till after the big, you know, that big week in uh in April happened. So you're like, yeah, that's like every one of those days was like a complete different lifetime.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_02

Every day was it like you could write a book about every one of those days. And for you to go back and tell like the story of from the from the fifth or the sixth to the tenth, right? You know, at least that portion, it's hard. Your memory like does not like regain everything. Like it's you're in maybe a little bit of shock. I don't know. I don't know. But um, like I said, there's a lot of stuff that happened that I have forgot about until somebody brings it up and I'm like, holy crap.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, Lieutenant Dobb touched on it in his conversation. Just, you know, like it's hard to remember those crazy moments when literally every five seconds. It's a crazy moment as a crazy ass moment. And so like you may or may not remember you know, like you just can't I can't process every time somebody made a basket during a basketball game. Yeah, exactly. You know, like I I I remember some of the more wild ones and maybe a random one, but I mean, I don't, you know, it's kind of a it's it's absolutely wild. Yeah, I mean how the memory works.

April 6 Chaos And The IED Girl

SPEAKER_02

It's wild. I remember I forgot what day it was, of course, but we go somewhere, we get into a big firefight. Um, we have to leave to go support somebody else. I believe it was golf company on the way. So we're leaving one fight to go to another fight. Um, on the way to that fight. I remember driving. Calvarone was my driver, and I'm in the front seat and I'm looking up the truck ahead of me for I remember seeing Fernandez. He and he had already got hit with an ID prior to that. So he was, you know, you get a little gunshot when you're in an unarmored truck, you know, like we had, the old highbacks. We got the plates that we stole from the army or whatever, but that wasn't nothing. That wasn't anything, you know.

SPEAKER_03

No.

SPEAKER_02

Um, and on the way to the next fight, we're driving through through um Route Michigan, which that is the definition of hell back in 2004, was that road. Um and every nothing, like you know, it didn't seem right. Everybody was out, everything was bad. And I just remember as we're driving through there, you know, we have our dispersion between the trucks, and I because you're looking at anything, you're looking for somebody to peep out with an RPG and launch it at your truck, and you want to get dibs on first. But there was this little girl standing there. She probably was about, I don't know, nine. And she was waving at all the trucks because we were hauling ass and she was waving all the trucks. And I don't know if they set the bomb off to hit my truck or if they set it off to hit the truck in front of me, because we're moving pretty quickly, so they got a moving target. It went off between us, between the two trucks. And I just remember looking in the direction of that little girl, and then the ID went off. The ID was literally right behind her, and she just disappears. It made a mist out of her. Like, and you're going from one fight to another fight, and that happens in between. You don't have time to process that. You have none. You don't even want to think about it. I mean, you can't if you wanted to. If you sit, get caught thinking about that, you're gonna get killed wherever you're going because your mind's not in the game. So it was pretty wild.

SPEAKER_01

Pretty damn wild. And that was one of the things that uh, you know, I brought it up a couple of times on here, but I I've thought about it more that we've talked about these stories. It was more indicative of that people were coming into the city that were not from the city because they didn't because they did not have any consideration for the population. For the kids. No, they didn't.

SPEAKER_02

They didn't. That's when you knew like this is a whole another element coming in. Yeah, like they're they're willing to kill X this unlimited amount of kids just to kill one of us. Right. So it's not the guys in that neighborhood that are setting these IEDs out because they're not gonna try to kill their own kids. I mean, we watch them beat the shit out of them and everything else, but that's a little different than lighting them up with IEDs, you know. Right.

SPEAKER_00

Well, and that's at at that point, they were still uh that that was the beginning of when they were kidnapping family members. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they would then make them go, you know, shoot an RPG or bury an IED or whatever. That way they would get killed, and then that would create, you know, hopefully get the family. Right. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

It's a it's a good recruiting technique. Make make them go do something to the Americans. And when the Americans, you know, defend themselves, they're you kill those family members, so now they're gonna want to do what? They want to be the next one that grabs a rifle or sets out an ID or an RPG and and attacks you. So that's kind of a situation, but it's what it was, man.

SPEAKER_01

I mean well, you kind of jumped into talking about April 6th. I'm curious who all was in your truck and who was with you? I know you mentioned Calderon and So Calderon, I I had throughout the court, and like I said, I'm horrible with my dates and stuff.

The Truck Team And Unsung Marines

SPEAKER_02

That's all right. Um, so I had different members of my team, but uh, and a lot of them, they never like you don't ever hear anything about them, but I promise you, the thing that I've become so impressed with after the fact of being home, and I didn't think about this when I was there. Um, I thought about when I got home. I'm like, you know, I was 27, I think 28 when all this was going on. There's a big difference between a 28-year-old and a 18, 19, 20-year-old. There really is. Um I have been nothing but amazed by the way they reacted to everything. I know that I had time I had Tebow, Akers, I had Martinez, Bowers was on my heavy gun. Um, Calderon's my driver, I had Stickle, and I had Le Long, old Dirty Steve. Um, those are the guys that I had throughout the course. And um, I like to give them all a big holler and just, you know, I think I've told every one of them since the fact, but I have got nothing but the utmost love and respect for those guys doing it. I mean, some of them were teenagers. Like some of those guys got there two weeks after they got in the fleet. Can you imagine that? Like, holy shit. I've got nothing but love and respect for them. But I one of the most underrated guys in the entire platoon, in my opinion, one of the one name that goes under the header is Leilong. Very Steve was my right-hand man, and he was a savage killer. He killed a ton of people. Um, God, I'm proud of that dude. I love that dude. Um, but everybody that I had, solid as a rock. I mean, I don't know if they're afraid to get slapped up the head, slapped upside the head sometimes or what, but man, they they did they did a hell of a job. And the funny thing is, some of the people that I did slap upside the head and and jump on physically before that deployment, they thanked me for it later. So don't think I was just being a bully because it was fun. I mean, you know. They might have been lying to me, but they they they did tell me that. Leilong was one of them, by the way. But um, yeah, but that I had on on the sixth, I I know Stickle and Leilong, and I know Bowers was on my gun. I I hate that I forget sometimes who the who was there, but but all them names that I just mentioned to you, and probably a couple more, that I'm gonna forget, but um, they were with me, and every time I asked them to do anything, they were right on the spot. Nice.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I I remember at least the lead up to the story that you just told with the guy sliding through the back of the high back. And the only reason why I remember that is because uh, so you guys had been in the south of the city reinforcing golf, and then you got hit by the IED that you just mentioned uh with the little girl on the way between that golf company reinforcement. You went up uh up into the Sophia district, and that's where you reinforced my platoon map, too. And that's when you guys slammed on the brakes and uh and the guy broke his neck. Because I remember that was one of the first things that somebody told me when I was like, What's going on? How many guys do you have with you? What's what's up? And also, why do you have so many people stacked in your trucks? And you're like, Oh yeah, you're like, this guy just died, like throwing about on the ground. I was like, okay, well, this is interesting. But anyway, it was like a huge force multiplier because my potential was fairly short. We only had, I think, 21 or 22 guys on that day. And so you guys coming in was like, now we have 40 or 50 guns, we can actually move down this street. We had we had maybe moved, I don't know, six, eight blocks, maybe a little further, but not significantly so. We had done plenty of damage, plenty of gunfighting, but not we hadn't moved to our objective, which was to relieve the snipers that were pinned down up there in the north and the echo company guys. Do you remember much after you linked up with us and moved north and reinforce Echo?

SPEAKER_02

Like I said, if you tell me a story or a situation that happened, I'll be able to jump in. But it's like I said, it's so hard for me to put down the the dates and times. You know, I just know what happened when when we got there, I know what we did, you know. Yeah, but I can't, it's hard. Like I said, I don't know. It's hard for me to remember the dates and times. No, that's all right, man.

SPEAKER_00

Uh well, I was just gonna say, so um, I know part of what we had talked about ahead of time was is that just wanting to make sure that you're given some shout-outs and stuff like that too. And just, you know, is there during during this time period, does any any one of the your guys is that were in the truck any specific stories that you wanted to shout out for that time frame?

SPEAKER_01

Well, actually, that's a good point. You have any stories of your guys doing anything?

SPEAKER_02

I have like I said, if I had everything that I told them to do, they didn't hesitate. They absolutely did it. I mean, I remember it was a funny incident. I don't even know if it was on this particular day, but do you remember how because I think this was more towards the end of the deployment. Do you remember when they started, there was a lot of people from Africa coming in and they were black. And um, our my 240 gunner at the time was Bowers, who's black. And I remember basically anything, anybody we saw that was from Africa was black, you're like, they're keep an eye on them because they're not from here, and a lot of people were being told a lot of people were being paid to come in. And I remember us getting into a pretty good fight, and um I had to get out of the truck and I was pulling back Constantine wire for Lieutenant Dobbin Regelsberger to get through like an intersection, not an intersection, but it was a road. And it was so I, you know, I get out of my truck, I run up there, and I grab the wire and I'm pulling it back. They go through, and we hear some gunshots, and I look back and I'm walking in front of the truck. Everybody else is still in the truck mounted. And um, so as they're driving off, I look back, and Bowers is yelling at me. He called me Tex, you know, Tex, Tex, because that was my call sign. And he's like, There's black people up there. You gotta shoot him. You I'm looking at him, I'm like, I got a black dude on my truck telling me that I gotta shoot at all these black. It was just so funny to me because but he was right. They were they were coming in from somewhere else. Um but he was he was on point because I didn't know they were there, and he probably ended up saving me just by telling me something like that, just letting me know that they were where. But that is one of the funniest things, you know, just the memory, you gotta shoot them, they're black. I'm like, that just sounds so bad right now. Especially coming from him. But Bowers is another guy you don't hear a lot about. But man, that dude, he was solid on the on the gun. I loved having him in my truck. He never, my guys never complained to me, and I was hard on them when it comes to stuff like that. I respect them so much more as I got older, you know, even years after this deployment. Probably my respect grows for them each day. Each day I get older. Um, I remember days, I mean Leilong was on my hip, like nobody's business. And I could tell Leilong, you're gonna stand right here. As soon as that dude pops his head out, you're gonna, you're gonna do your thing. And I'll be he wouldn't ask the question. He would just do it. Um everything was like my teams that I had were all great. Nice, awesome. They were great. Um, I'm sure there's a lot of things. I remember times Stickle having to lay down on a on a on a roof that was, I guess they were gonna, there was nothing but tar up there. And he kept telling me, you know, Stickle had was one of the guys you had to slap upside the head once a week or two because he did a great job, but he liked to question things on occasion, and I just was not in the mood to be questioned ever in that situation. And uh, but I had him get up on a roof one day and he's like, but, but I'm like, shut up, just get down. I don't want to hear what Stickle has to say. But he was up there laying in tar, hot tar at a 120-degree day, and um, he didn't bitch about it, but um, when he got off that roof, I'm like, dude, why didn't you say something to me? He goes, Well, I tried, but you told me to shut up. And I'm like, oh yeah, I mean, I have there's just random stories I could tell all day long about those guys, um, and and how good they did for me and how good they did for everybody else in the platoon, you know.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, well, I if you if you have some species, we can keep going chronologically too, but if you don't if you if one pops into your head, man, just go ahead and tell us. If it pops in my head, I'll tell you. I'll tell you. Yeah, that's yeah, nice. We'll go down that road.

Lioness On The Line And Closing

SPEAKER_01

Well, the next thing I have here in my notes is uh you're on the it was like the the third official day of the Battle of Ramadi. So we had the sixth and the seventh two big gunfighting days, basically where people were mostly the line companies were taking QRF, and then our units were going in different directions to support them, and then we ended up clearing neighborhoods. The eighth was like a small coordinate search, the ninth was some little stuff that was nothing, just small, small running skirmishes, but nothing big. There were some field hospitals found. Yeah. And then the Intel stated that the majority of the insurgency had holed up in the again in the Sophia district on the 10th.

SPEAKER_02

And that was when we did the first official Is that when that's when um I believe they they got Lion S to our platoon, right? Yes, yeah. That was so they ended up with me for some reason. A lot um I don't know how they ended up. I was probably trying to, you know, they were girls. Hey, you guys gotta come to my gun, you know. I don't know. But um, I remember some stories about I heard you guys talking about the Lioness group a little bit, and um yeah, they were definitely with us, and we got into some we got into one heavy fight with them right there with this, and um it was kind of a big it was a big deal. It was something crazy for them to to witness. And I remember, you know, I get amped up and I'll say the word, I'll cuss, and I'll forget whose rank is what, and I don't care. And I remember I don't know, she outranked me, obviously, because I was still in the corner at the time. Something happened, and I said, um, I called one of them bitch. And not meaning it like in a female direct, you call guys like quit being a bitch, get over here and do this. You know, you don't mean it like because you're a female, and I got so much respect for them after the fact because in the in the heat of the moment, like they understood. But when it was afterwards, I don't know, it might have been a staff sergeant. She'd come up to me, she's like, I just want you to know you call me a bitch, and I do outrank you. I was like, I totally apologize for that. And and I just kind of was like, you know, it had nothing to do with you being a woman. It just I call everybody bitches around, you know. And um, but I remember you guys talking about, but I was like, yeah, they we had lioness, and it was kind of crazy. Lieutenant Dog called me and told me about this. He said, Do you know that a historian said that it was the first time that's ever been documented of women being sent to the front line of you probably weren't better than me. But I was like, You can't be shitting me. You mean they were with me of all people? You know, that's probably the last thing they wanted to do.

SPEAKER_01

So that particular moment you had, I believe, just two women, correct? There were four total lionesses, but there were at least two, but you had two with Rainmaker.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, there might have been two only with us, but I remember, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So that particular day was the first time that they had been intentionally sent to a frontline unit into what was expected to be forward-facing combat. So much so that that was even it ended up being the subject of a review by Congress and testimony in front of Congress. And you guys got into a pretty rough gunfight. We did.

SPEAKER_02

It was up close. Yeah. So they I'll give it to you like they seen some legit shit. They really did.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

If you like what you've heard, this is a multi part episode. Make sure you listen to the rest of the story.