Constant Combat

Courage From The Messy Middle Ground - Reagan Hodges (part 3 of 3)

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A bonus 3rd hour with Reagan Hodges as he adds some sharper detail, from reenlisting before 9/11 to the split-second fights that still replay in his head. We talk about why brotherhood can feel like the best and worst part of war at the same time, and what leadership, luck, and grief look like on the ground. 


• returning to the Marines after a break and why it felt like home 
• Okinawa bonding
• pre-deployment training stress
• Jeremiah “Savage” as the guy who gets things done 
• leading Marines hard while trusting the chain of command 
• Weapons Company as the cavalry and why everyone wants the call 
• April fights, rooftop exposure
• interpreter reliability, the mosque camera story
•  the reality of “blue on blue”
• April 10 bug hunt
• a ten-foot gunfight again with a little more detail
• Purple Hearts, and the awards process 



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Picking Up After The Mic

SPEAKER_01

After the microphone stopped, we started talking about our interview with Reagan Hodges of Rainmaker Platoon. And he decided that he would like to add more detail to many of the same stories that he already told. So here is part three with Reagan Hodges.

SPEAKER_00

Oh so you want to start from the sixth?

SPEAKER_01

Whatever, man. It doesn't matter. You can start from the beginning of the deployment. This is for you, Brad. You said you wanted to put in more detail. Let's put in more detail.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Um basically you got me confused now. You don't get me speechless very often. This is bullshit.

SPEAKER_03

No, okay. So so you so we came off of um we came off of our last conversation and you and uh you had a lot of really good stories, man. And so you you're I guess like maybe talk talk a little bit about more what you were thinking was missing. Because I'll be honest, I don't my memory isn't that good about the specifics except for now, because I've been doing like yeah, I've been reliving this now. But fuck, we just did Tebow and he had several things that I was like, oh fuck, yeah, that's right. You know, so yeah. Um what makes you most comfortable, man?

SPEAKER_00

Like it's it's really we're is it okay if we just start it over from the top? Yeah, man. But we're I know that we're gonna say a lot of the same shit. That's all right, but you have to throw in all the the sweet compliments that you had before about me and all that. I'll do my best, you know.

SPEAKER_03

As long as you get it say same, same though. You remember, don't leave everything, and I mean, you know, I got some of those famous back rubs that you used to give me, you know.

SPEAKER_00

I'm even better now, dude.

SPEAKER_03

Set the mood.

SPEAKER_00

So do you remember like like kind of what we went on? Because I like it when you guys at times because it it when you you refresh in my memory, like when you go, you you guys are more like in depth or in tune with what happened in order.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, um, I've tried to take some notes and I've just referred back to the book, and um Yeah, we can help you do go a little bit more chronological if that's what you would prefer.

SPEAKER_00

It's something like that. And um I kind of like what we talked about a lot last time. I just I don't know, it just didn't it didn't come off right. Maybe I'm just being stupid. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

Uh we've already introduced you. I can easily clip that in. Uh, but go ahead and start. Let's start from the beginning. Where where were you so where were you prior to joining 2-4? Let's go with that, and then we'll just go from there.

Reenlisting Before 9/11

SPEAKER_00

Prior to joining 2-4, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So you had some prior service, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So I um I was in the Marine Corps and uh went in in '94, got out in 1998, then I came back in in 2001.

SPEAKER_03

Um what was your MOS the first time? It was 03, 41. Oh, you were 410. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And then um I I had a hunting fishing show on TV with some business partners, and we just got I got burnt out of it in business. It wasn't becoming fun no more like that. And uh I wanted to go back to where I just wanted to be, and that was making almost no money in the Marine Corps, hanging out with a bunch of dudes, coming up with battle plans and and and little stuff like that. That's just the stuff that I like, you know. Um so I wanted to go back into that.

SPEAKER_03

And when was this like what what time period is this that you got serious about? 2001, early 2001. Oh, so even before 9-11. Yes.

SPEAKER_00

Already Mar March 25th or May 25th, one of those days. Um in 2001 is when I when I came back and re-enlisted. And they um went went to 2-4, originally went to golf company, was out there. I was with golf company for for a while, and then they just when they switched, Lieutenant Apert came over to um to weapons company, and he brought some of us with him, like the the last guys that were there. So that's when we made the switch from from um golf company to weapons company.

SPEAKER_03

Because that would have been prior to CAX, right? Because you did CAX. I did CAX, I did CAX with weapons, yeah. That's what I thought. Yeah, we did that there. Oh, that's right, because I remember we won't say his name, but you uh you were there was uh one uh Portly Marine that uh you uh that you you were teasing them one time and it was at night, and uh I think it was Gunny Mararkey was looking for him, and you could you could imitate his voice so well. Uh the the guy that was the uh Portly Marine and you uh said, I'm over here, Gunny, I'm eating some cotton candy. Absolutely. Gunny thought it was ready to kill somebody. Oh, he was about ready to eviscerate. I that was easily one of the funniest things that ever happened in my entire life. I still laugh out loud thinking about that.

SPEAKER_00

It's it's funny putting people laugh on the line like that, you know. Well, you did, you did.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, but anyways, so so fast-forwarding a little bit, obviously, we did that uh fun one-year stint in Okinawa, but uh uh probably to its credit, it did make us all bond a whole lot more. We got a lot closer as a company just in general. And then uh we moved into the got back from Okinawa and did sort of the preface. Uh, I don't recall, but did you do any division schools or anything like that?

SPEAKER_00

What what I went to um I went to infantry squad leaders course. Um and I think that's the only class that I went to at that time during that time frame, you know. Um yeah, pretty sure that was it. And you were a corporal at that point, right? Yeah, I was a corporal at that point.

Okinawa Bonding And Schooling

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So I had, you know, I worked the ranks a little bit. I'd like to go up, come down, go back up.

SPEAKER_03

It was a lack of universe of players.

SPEAKER_00

People asked me what rank were you? I'm like, what month are we talking about? You know, uh-huh. Yeah, it's it is what it is, right? I mean, uh in both enlistments, it's been real, it's it's kind of hilarious to me. When I was in um, I was in a weapon company in 3rd Battalion, 4th Marines back in the 90s, and I had a gunnery sergeant, gunnery sergeant heartless, he made a comment in one of my um company NJPs, and it's the same comment that was made. I don't know if it was by Dobb or or by Cook or somebody when I was getting NGP'd by Sergeant Major Booker, but um they said um he's just the kind of guy that you know if we could manage him better in garrison, um it would be great. But what we'd really like is just to put him in a glass case and break in case of emergency, you know. And I was like, if we could only do that, it would save me a lot of time and money, you know what I mean. Oh man.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and then and then I I know that there was some ups and downs coming into the last part of our pre-deployment stuff early um early 04. Um, so I know you were up at March Air Force Base for some of the training, and then kind of come bring us into that that that stretch. So March and then our our very infamous flight attempt flight out to to uh Kuwait.

SPEAKER_00

We're talking about um like all the drama that I got into.

SPEAKER_03

Well, that's up to you if you want to go into that. I was just I was just I was just talking that that's the next uh the next bigger phase is uh post uh because you would have gone to corporal's course with uh or infantry squad leader's course with uh Leighton, right?

SPEAKER_00

I think it was I don't know if I went to the same one as he did or not.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

I can't remember. The thing is, I don't know what it is, but I don't have it. I it's hard for me to pinpoint dates and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_03

Well, it's over, it's 20, like 25 years later.

SPEAKER_00

So like yeah, but it could be like 25 seconds later, and I'd still have the same issue. You know, yeah. So I I I can't recall. I I honestly don't. I just know that that's when I was going back and forth with my court, and I was always going somewhere. I mean, it kind of pulled me out of training for March Air Force Base when we were up there doing our last little run of training before we went. And um yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So what do you remember of the flight out, like getting ready to getting ready to get on the bird and head on out?

Why The War Felt Worth It

SPEAKER_00

I just I remember being excited, you know. I remember um like feeling like this is what we're here for. You know, I didn't there's just no I have no room like anybody that would have been scared or anything like that. Not that we knew a lot of people that were like that, but I just had no tolerance for that. Like that's the ultimate, that's the big game. We want to go to the big show. Um, that's what you train for for all those years. Um and so, you know, not not like I said before, you know, you don't pray for war, but you pray for the opportunity to be there if there is a war. You know what I mean? And um I did not want to miss out on that opportunity. And I think there's a lot of us that didn't want to miss out on that. Some of us might have might have wanted it a lot more before we got there. And then um, and then things kind of change, but I just I don't feel that way, you know. It's um, you know, we think uh even after the fact of looking back at at all we've been through, and people will say, hey man, was it worth it? I say absolutely it was worth it. Um I don't regret anything about that employment. Um and I feel guilty kind of saying stuff like this, but I mean, some of the best days I had in my life were over there, you know. And I like I feel when I say I feel guilty, it's like you're talking like I've become so close to Mama Savage. Um and I think she would even understand this. Um like when when I think of Jeremiah, I don't think of like I it's sad. Obviously, we you know, he's one of our guys that didn't make it home. But when I when I think back at him, I look at it with like I'm putting a smile on my face. Like, I don't think of only like you know, him not making it home. I think of like what I seen with my own two eyes. I think of the bad motherfucker that he was. I, you know, with my own eyes. I seen how a man will react within, you know, well, he couldn't have been more than 15 yards, 20 yards away when they got attacked when Lieutenant Dobbs truck with Regelsburg got, they were just under heavy fire right there. And from my where I was at, I could see everything happening. Um, I know exactly what that man would do when um he's in a situation like that. He got up on his gun and he started rocking and rolling, browns deflecting off the turret right in front of his face, and without hesitation. You got to understand, and this is in the same, like it happened so quick, most of the people in the platoon, even the ones in that truck, when it when something that loud and that violent happens close to you, a lot of people don't even know what's happening yet. They're trying to gather their senses. He was already sitting in rounds down range, just I mean, save their lives. So when I think about Savage, I think about that. I think how I'm so glad that I got to serve with a guy like that. Um well let me pick. That's what I think about. So it brings a smile to my face when I think him. Like, I there's parts that some of the best days and worst days of my life were over there. But I gotta like you always wonder, I think it's maybe just my personality. I don't know. But I always wanted to know what I would do in situations like that, how I would react. Um and you always hope you would react just like that. And um, and I had a situation where where I was able to do that, but let's uh I'm gonna I'm gonna stop you just for a second.

Remembering Jeremiah Savage

SPEAKER_01

Let's pull on that thread just a minute more since you're already on Savage. I bet you've got five or six more stories of Savage. I would love to hear more in detail because you're you're a detailed observer, and I I like that. So let's uh let's pull that thread a little bit. You got anything anything else about what Savage did?

SPEAKER_00

I well Savage was like the guy to go to if you need like when we needed to start jacking armor from the army base, yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. I mean Savage is your guy. Yeah, you when the freaking wattage blows out in your hooch, um, and there's you know, everything was backwards over there. Um, who do you go to? Go to Savage. He's that dirty, gritty dude that's gonna get shit done um regardless. If home visa break it, you know, when you can't go to the motor pool, who's gonna get on that? Savage. Yeah. Um when I took the drive up to um into Iraq, my driver was Savage, and I couldn't have had anybody better, you know. I mean, I asked a couple people before who wanted to go, and everybody else chose to to fly. And then Savage was the one that said, yeah, we'll drive. Um because I wanted to. I I just wanted to be on the ground. I wanted to get get there faster than anybody else. I wanted to be, you know. Um and that's Savage was my guy. I mean, I just look back at so so many things, and um, yeah, uh what there's it's impossible for me like to think of him and not put a smile on my face. No, I agree. I just uh I know things, it's it's sad, like the stories that his kids will probably never even know about him, and they might hear some of it, but they're never gonna know the full the full impact of it and like what kind of badass their dad was. Like they're not gonna know that.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

You know, um, they're gonna, like I said, hear hear a story or two, but a lot of that's gonna go, you know, at least from their they're not ever gonna know that stuff, but I know I know it, I know the truth about it. Um and I've told his mom. You know, one of the I think one of the things I'm proud, proud of, or just I was just lucky to even be involved in it, is when um when we got back home years later, you know, um I had been in touch with Lieutenant Dobb a little bit here and there, and um and started, I don't know, the conversation came up about he brought to my attention about he wanted me and Doc C, Doc Contreras to submit a um just so some statements, and that's when we went to get him to for him to be awarded his um Navy Calm. Yeah. Um and I was honored to be a part, you know, to be a part of the um of that writing the statements and with Doc C. And um for that to get past and for him to get that award was incredible. Like I can't even it's it was so well deserved. Um and I just take a lot of pride in that that they even asked me to um to help be a part of that, you know. So yeah, um like I said, some of the worst days and best days we're over there. I hate when you you know when you lose your friends, you obviously it's it's horrible. Um I don't look at it like anybody over there just died in vain. I look at it like like we're infantry grunts in the Marine Corps. Like it's the old saying, and it's as corny as it may sound, like freedom isn't free. You know, thank God there's men brave enough to go out there and sacrifice it all like that. Um after the fact it's sad, you know it is, but but I'm not gonna sit around the my whole life and just mourn that fact. I'm gonna I'm gonna put that dude in the highest of praise and um you know he's he's a Roth started as far as I'm concerned, you know.

SPEAKER_03

No, I I completely agree. The some of although I haven't necessarily kept as close of contact with a lot of the guys, I now 20 years on realize those are some of the best friends that I ever have made. Even 20 years on, I know that there's not a there's not a stitch one that wanted if I called it be like, hey, I need some help, they would you know show up immediately. Yeah. And then also to that kind of piece of like yeah, Iraq was hard and difficult. But at the same time, there's there's a a beauty of the black and whiteness of it, especially from you know, we were we were volunteers, we we chose we chose this life. And so we were able to do the thing that we trained for for all these years, and there's such a black and whiteness over there that I I know it's still 20 years on, and I still miss that. I miss I miss the people, I miss that very specific mission. And yeah, so I I I pick up what you're putting down, man.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I I liked putting all that effort into the fight. I like throwing grenades, I like, you know, telling Leilong, you know, launch launch your M203 down here and hit watching him just splatter people with it. Like, you know, they're bad people, so it's not like you have any, you know, remorse about I don't. Um you know, we never I I at least me, no everybody that I know, we weren't we weren't shooting at people that weren't trying to kill us first.

SPEAKER_01

So um well, that was uh that was that famous General Mattis quote right around the same time, right? Sometimes it feels good to do bad things to bad people or whatever. I'm sure he said something other much more eloquent, but that was basically what he said.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and it's a lot of people look down on that, but at the same time, you need those people. Yeah, you need those people on your team, so call me bad, call me whatever. I don't care.

SPEAKER_03

You're in good company. Yeah.

Leadership Style And Trust

SPEAKER_01

Well, you kind of launched right into it uh talking about Savage, but uh anybody else specifically stand out to you? Anything else you can remember? You talked about Leilong, that's another good one. Got any uh any other stories of other teammates?

SPEAKER_00

Like I said, everybody that was on my team from day one, you know, you know, doing a great job doesn't necessarily mean you're gonna be the one that goes out there and gets all the kills. I mean, somebody can be doing that, but if you're not covering for him, he's not gonna be able to do his job. Like you don't, you might not get the kills, but you get the assists because you kept him, you know, it's it's always it's a team effort. It truly is. And um, and what I've learned is one of the biggest, you know, reasons that I've got to come home was not because I was great at my job or even because of the people around me that were great. It's because you get lucky. But I mean, sometimes you just get lucky. So there's so many things that go into it. But like I said, every everybody that I had on my team, and I was very aggressive, and I was always up in their face and pushing them to do what I wanted, had, you know, needed them to do. And that they all did, man. Every one of them did. And I look back at it now, it's one of the things that I didn't really think too much of at the time. Um, you know, I didn't have you know kids or anything like that at the time to to think about. But you think about a guy like Savage who already had kids, his wife pregnant. Um, and they're good, they're doing that stuff, and and they're they get a lot to lose. A lot to lose, and they just put it all on the line like that. And it just it stays with me forever. And um I will never not be grateful for all of them. You know, it's just it's hard to explain, it's hard to put in words if you understand what I'm saying. Sure.

SPEAKER_01

I do uh you said something, and I I'm gonna ask you a few more questions about that, actually. You talk about pushing your guys a little a little hard specifically. I'm curious about your relationship with command as well. Uh, how did you feel as far as so you had Sergeant Garcia, who was your platoon sergeant, just because of the way your sections got split, and you had Lieutenant Dobb. Did you feel like they were helping to guide or push you or were Or were you taking that on yourself more of a shouldering the burden and shape the mission?

SPEAKER_00

No, there was no burden. It's just part of the job.

SPEAKER_01

I loved every bit of it. When I say burden, I just mean uh leading marines leading Marines is a task, right? It no even if you have the best dudes in the world, sometimes they're assholes, and sometimes they're the best people on the planet.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

They weren't, I gotta be honest, they weren't assholes to me. Um they were great. Um maybe it's just the style that I had, like I didn't need to be motivated to be over there. Um once you get me out of garrison, I'm in my LMA, you know. Um I think Garcia did a great job. And I think part of that was by letting me do my thing. You know, and and I I look back at it and I did, I got away with a lot of stuff that most people wouldn't. And I don't really I don't know why necessarily. Um, but but I really had a little bit of I don't know, leeway. I I don't know what you'd call it. Um so it just worked out great. I think when when they went to split the platoons, that they did a good job matching matching personalities and things like that, skill sets with with with certain other members of your team and stuff. Um yeah, it was definitely like Garcia had his role, I had my role, and then you know, Lieutenant Dobb has his role, and he's the kind of guy, he doesn't say a lot, but when he does, you do it. And you trust him, you know, you trust him. But like nobody, everybody had trust in him, you know. So when you feel good, like you feel like the people around you are working with you, and you know they're gonna fight their ass off to the death for you, and you're chanting, man. I felt like when we were over there, I felt like they had our back 100%. Um, I know they did. And um I was just, you know, like I said, for that situation, for being in hell, it was the best situation. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Did you uh I have a distinct memory of you coming out with us before? Did you have any other opportunities to work with any other platoons?

Hungry For The Fight

SPEAKER_00

I remember going out with you guys several times. Like if we were, if that was our week to be pulling guard or whatever, I was always trying to get in somebody's truck. Yeah always. And um, and I love I like it, you know, to um see how other people work. Yeah, to it's just good. I like it. Yeah, you know, I take them when I jump on another team, I take a different role. Like, I'm gonna be quiet, I'm gonna follow the lead, so to speak. I'm not gonna jump in nobody else, a different platoon, and think I'm gonna be running the show because it's not gonna happen. Nobody is. But um, but I I I like I like that experience. Um you know it's kind of funny. I remember when we first got to to Iraq and we started getting um, you know, the mission started coming in, and then you'd hear you'd be on base and you'd hear some some gunfire going off. You hear an ID and you're like, oh hell yeah, we're about to go. I mean, think about it. From a I mean, most normal people, if they hear a bunch of gunshots and a bunch of bombs going off, and they knew that their brothers were out there getting either killed or or wounded. You just know there's so much violence out there, and none of it, it's all directed towards you. None of it's good, you know. Um, and you'd see like people chomping at the bit to get there. Like nobody was like, we're like, let's we all wanted to go. We wanted to go straight to the fight. And when you notice another platoon got the call and they're rolling out the gate, you're just kind of you're about halfway jealous.

SPEAKER_02

Like, damn it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, but that's not like that's not a normal mentality. It takes a kind of a I don't know, different mentality. You call us weird, whatever, but I'm glad I was around all those weird guys. Um, I love the fact that everybody was wanting to get out and get some. Like I said, it's not a normal mentality to go put me in the fight right now. Um but that was our norm. That was the normal for us.

SPEAKER_03

And I think it's it it become I remember thinking about this even when we were there, that we had gotten put into an extremely unique position because we were basically the Calvary. I mean, we functioned more like dragoons, but which for the purposes of our conversation is the Calvary. And so we were able to roll out and you know, be the big swing on anything. We weren't and so we we were the special special teams, and that's what got us excited. And I don't know if that's just how any group would have been if that's like given the same environment, or because of the nature of how hungry we were for the fight, that's that's how we really became functionally our primary job, and at least in my memory and view, is we were the Calvary. Like, yeah, we did dataskable, yeah, we did a little other things, but functionally, as far as RAO went, like we were the hammer that came out and fucked up the uh, you know, whoever was, you know, if golfer someone else was getting in a tangle, we came and it was over when we came.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, yeah, I I love the fact that everybody had their own air area of responsibility, you know. They're we had the whole city. We got to go fight, we fought with everybody. Um, I love that. That's a unique position to be in. Um, that's what I love about weapons company. Um, and to me, that was just a big bonus. To me, that's like we had the the best ticket to the game, you know. We we got to go everywhere. We had VIP, we could go anywhere, anytime they needed us, and um and we did. We stormed that whole freaking place.

SPEAKER_01

I think the other aspect of that that uh probably made people more hungry to go out the gate was it and trying to take the rose-colored glasses off a little bit. Uh, we got bad news basically every other day. Like that's that's how it felt. And especially you being with golf company, I imagine hearing about golf company and echo company casualties. I I knew a lot of the dudes in Echo from when we did Operation Noble Eagle and we trained side by side. I was constantly hearing about people that I knew closely. Like, even if I hadn't kept up with them or talked from, I was hearing about bad shit happening to people, and I didn't want that bad shit to keep happening. I didn't want to keep hearing those that will that shit anymore. And so going out there and being able to exercise my frustrations was much more was was really appealing. Like getting out the gate and solving the problem was was great.

Gallows Humor And Loss

SPEAKER_00

Oh yeah, it's you like you said, uh like starting from when McPherson got a third of his face blown off. By the way, he's the only guy that I know that gets his complete lower half of his a lower third of his face blown off and gets better looking after that. I don't understand that. Um yeah, he's I mean, he went from that now, he's happily married, living the life. I'm like, dude, you did that shit for attention, didn't you? He's just laughable.

SPEAKER_01

It's funny when we saw him at the reunion. I I was picking on him about that too. I was like, what the fuck, dude? I can't even get near you. You're a celebrity. Everybody wants to talk to you. And he's he's fucking laughing. I was like, you asshole.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, we had a good time. We were at one event, and um Zimmerman from golf company was there, and he also in that same ID got um they got McPherson, it it blew Zimmerman's eye out. And so we had a big get together in Texas, and Sergeant Major Buckler, it was up near in his hometown, and um we were all sitting out there and McPherson, we were all gonna get a picture together, but Zimmerman took out his eyeball, and uh somehow it ended up in my mouth. Somehow, yeah, so we're getting a picture, and originally um McPherson was gonna take the picture, but he got so grossed out, he started gagging. I mean, he was like about to throw up because I got this dude's eyeball in my mouth. And uh, we're laughing so hard he gets mad, and you know, so I laugh twice as hard, you know.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00

He looks at Zimmer and he tells Zimmerman, I'm about to kick your ass if you don't shut up. I'm like, you can't be kicking his ass. I got his eye in my mouth, dude. Come on. But it was just, you know, that when people start and it's a funny looking back on it like that part's just hilarious now. But you know, hearing hearing about him, and then like I said, my old roommate Walker, when when Walker got killed, it just yeah, you know, I like I said, I think back to the 90s when I lived with with Walker and he was one of my boots, and um and the stuff I used to, I used to you know how I am. Like I've messed with people, like that's what I do. Uh-huh. I picked on that dude so bad, but in a good loving way. Like you know we loved him. But when you, you know, if you're a young, I don't care really, actually, even if you're just a new guy, but you're gonna get it if you're around me. I'm gonna call you a boot. I'm gonna make I'm gonna just push your buttons and and then continue to do that. Even when we become friends, or even if we remain enemies, it don't matter. That's what I'm gonna just look yeah, losing people that that you've known, it starts to bother you, but it's it's more you can either let that control you or you can let it motivate you, you know. Yeah. Um like I said, I didn't need any extra motivation, but when stuff like that it happens, uh even though you think you can't get more focused, it it brings you up. You reach a new peak, you know, when it's real personal like that.

SPEAKER_03

Sure. I never uh Naylan, I think you had a that was an interesting point. And what you're saying, Hodge is really I never I never completely put that together. That I I think we had a weirdly cohesive battalion, not just not just weapons company being able to be cohesive, but that Oki deployment in a weird way really brought together, you know, again, you you would hear I knew a lot of the guys in golf and echo in particular. I was close with them. And so there's a there's an added layer to when when when your friends are not okay that you're like, you know, come hell or high water, I'm gonna I'm gonna make this at least right on the back end.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. It's yeah, I always like I'm loud, so I had people either loved me or hated me from all over the battalion. I feel like I got along with most of them, as long as I wasn't messing with them at the time. Um so I knew a lot of people, like I I could, you know, we'd show up anywhere and just start talking crap and fit in or or not.

SPEAKER_03

Everybody everybody knew Hodges. I I you you are you're not a wallflower, my friend. Um one way or the other.

SPEAKER_00

Either loved me or hated me.

SPEAKER_03

Well, and you're an equal and and you said it yourself, and I would agree with it. You're an equal opportunist. I mean, it wasn't you honestly, I you you weren't you're the type of person that you're not gonna if you're banging on somebody, it's because you like them at some degree. And you know, if if they're really a shit bag, you're not banging on them. You're doing it's it's something it's something very different. And so it and so it you were and that goes back to kind of like why you you know quote unquote got away with more stuff is because I I think command understood that you you had the mission at heart and troop wealth, you know, troop welfare and all that stuff. And so, you know you weren't missing, you know your uh processes were maybe unorthodox, but you uh you got I mean it was if it was effective, it worked for for me.

April 7 Rooftop Under Fire

SPEAKER_00

You know what I mean? I mean it worked for my team. I mean we had a good I had a good team. Um and even though we mixed it up with different people, like I said, they all they all came together and um I felt like we were strong. Every different group we had. Um it's just crazy looking back on it and then and just remembering how young some of those guys were. Um I mean, do you either one of you just do you have like situations that you think about that you're like, holy crap, that's just so wild. Like I can remember just randomly, like on I think it was April 7th. Uh, what day was it? I think it was the 7th. We showed up to um to assist Echo Company, and when we got there, things were just crazy. And I remember us getting there, getting out of the truck, and and you dude, it was it was going on. It was there was heavy, it was on, you know what I mean. And I'm I believe it was he was either a corporal or a sergeant, I think it was corporal at the time, Baron from Echo Company. I'm sitting there, as soon as we pull in, we dismount, we get out, and I'm going up to him and I'm asking him, like, what the hell's going on? He's giving me a situation report. Um, and as we're sitting there talking, as I'm talking to him, he gets shot. Boom. We're just like, what in the hell? So he ends up, he gets shot. He was okay. I think it got him in the leg calf or something like that. So he starts hopping around, and that conversation's over because you know, he's taking cover now. So I remember just grabbing Leilong and saying, We're gonna cut across this road because there was heavy gunfire across this road. But we wanted to, I wanted to get there, was a house across the street, and I tell, you know, it was like two or three stories. I was like, we get to the roof of this, we're gonna be able to see everything. So I take take dirty stees, we haul ass across this road, it's getting lit up. I mean, just hearing it, just the shots whizzing by is just it'll give you chills thinking about it. So we get up there, we get into the front door, and the family's in there, and they're they want us to be there because they're in the middle of this big gunfight and they're just innocent. And I said, I really need to get to your roof. And so they, you know, I don't know if they even understood me, but they're pointing to the roof, they let me get up there. So me and Steve went up there, and as soon as we get up on that roof, it we just realized this is the last place because there was no cover, and you can just hear the rounds and just impacting all around us, and we just hit the ground, boom, on that roof. I realized really quick we're not gonna be able to see anything. You could see what's going on, but we didn't have the time to figure anything out before one of those rounds that were coming at us were gonna impact one of us, and so immediately I just tell Steve, get off the roof as soon as we got up there. And we got under that hell storm of fire. We just we got back off and come down, but you just think about like, and that's not even a big situation compared to some of the other ones, but there's so many moments that happen like that. Like I said, I feel like you could tell a story a hundred times and people just wouldn't believe it. Yeah, I mean, I could go on and on. I mean but it's just thinking about that stuff, it's in the way that Leilong, especially Leilong, would just do it without hesitating. I would, you know, put myself in bad situations, but that doesn't mean that you should put your team in bad situations, you know. Right, right. Um so I would not, I would either do it by myself or take Steve with me because he would not, he would just be perfect for it. He would just be the guy that would do it and not say a word. I remember um he would get real nervous in the very beginning. We had a it was before anything major kicked off, but we ended up getting a night operation, and um I think we were gonna go check out this warehouse that they um expected was people were in there making IDs. So we're like, you know, mission comes down, we're gonna go out that night, we got our MVGs on, we get out there, we uh low crawl up to our positions where we got eyes on, and we don't know what's gonna happen. And it's kind of like your first big deal, and you're all you know in night ops and got your MVGs go. So it's like your Rambo moment, you know. Nice, and um and we're laying down in in the prone, just waiting to hear a word or just observe. And I hear um Leilong's like poking on my leg. He's like, oh, Jesus. I said, What's up? He goes, I gotta shit. I said, I don't know what to tell you, dude. We you should have gone. But then I'm realizing, like, this dude's nervous as hell. Like he's and so he goes, but I can't hold it. I said, you're gonna have to shit Lane right where you are right now. Thinking he's just gonna say no. He rolled over inside and took a shit right there, in the prone, on a night up, right there without missing a beat. So it was kind of funny, but uh yeah, you gotta respect that to do a shit right there. Just little things like that. Like I think about little stuff like that, and I laugh all the time. And you and it makes you like your body goes through a lot. Like that was his nerves telling him, Oh my god, like he literally was scared shitless. I guess they're nervous, but he never acted scared. He he did everything that was asked of him. I know that, you know. Um so just little things like that.

SPEAKER_03

Um so you you've talked a couple times about like, and and that was the case for our section too, that teams were fairly fluid. I mean, there was definitely some people kind of coalesced together a little bit more, but in general, there was a little bit of a round robin. But I guess my question is is at least for you, did you pick and choose a little bit your team, or did did it just kind of like whoever climbed into the back is who got into the back?

SPEAKER_00

I you know, I let Lieutenant Dobb figure that out. Um I never asked anything. I just did the job. Um, and like I said, whoever I got, they just I mean, I kind of think if you come to my team, like you know what you're getting. You know, it's like that's just Hodges is wired one way and it's gonna be that way, and I'm gonna be that way when I'm with them. And and they really did that. And like I said, they were young, they didn't know any better, but but they did that and it just worked out good. They're just what's the word I'm looking for? They're just well adversed. They can, you know. You tell a bunch of young Marines, they're grunts like that. I mean, you can tell them anything and they can make it happen, to be honest.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, the joke was the joke was we used to say, like, weapons company's motto was Semper Gumpy, not Semper Fi, right? Oh, 100% always flexible, right? Be flexible because you're getting yeah, yeah, 100%. Um that's funny. You you're you're saying they're young, but now I'm trying to think. So if you enlisted in like 1994 or whatever, you how old were you in 2005? I believe 28, 27 or 28. Right, which makes you a grandfather, according to all of all the Lance Corporals who were 17 and 18 years old.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and then like the Marine Corps, like if you've got a couple of deployments on front of somebody, you're like dog years in wisdom.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah, so true.

SPEAKER_00

Two years in in the Marine Corps is like that's 14 dog years, man. Yeah, so you know, me being 28. I mean, I was 28, you're still young as it can be. I I just remember I was being tall, me and Neil were like the old guys, uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

28, 27, 28. Yeah, I'm like, but really, like if you if you've got a couple, if you have an enlistment or anything under your belt, it's it carries a lot of I guess weight, you know, a little bit anyway, in situations like that. Because, like you said, the the difference between a 19-year-old and a 21-year-old is major if you're in the Marines. Um, the billets that you get, the responsibility that you get, it's like no other. It's you're gonna be put in a big boy job, and yeah, you might only be 20, but you better be working it like you've been here for 20 years, you know. Yeah, yeah, that's accurate. I kind of like that. I kind of like that. That's throw them into the fire and see what. They're made of.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

That's true. I'm all about that. And that's whatever one of those guys were. They were thrown in the fire. Look how many young guys we got straight out of SOI, School of Infantry. They're coming to us and literally two weeks into it. Or, you know, not two weeks into the fleet, but how many months was like guys like Ackles there for before he went to combat?

SPEAKER_01

Well, that I mean that was Ackles was two weeks. That's exactly right. And there's a few other guys like that that were two weeks. And some no more than a month and a half to two months.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Think about that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Think about that.

The Night Op Bathroom Story

SPEAKER_03

I mean, I think as crazy as it is, I I think there's I think that's what partial there's so many different elements that we should not have been as successful as we were. But I think that's one of the pieces that did make us successful because you had people like the three of us who had a ton of experience coming into it. Nylon and I were on the back end of our first deployment. I mean, we only had a year left. And so we had all of this experience. But then so we were bringing something to the table of that. But then we also had these no bad habit people. Like they didn't, they didn't have an idea of how it should be. And so they were able to execute what we needed to have done, and then not being like, Well, I have an idea. It's like, no, you don't. You need no, no, you don't.

SPEAKER_00

You don't have any ideas, dude. I am your idea, I'm your voice. That's right. Um no, that's it. I mean, and and that was of all times to not question things. That was, I mean, if you have questions, that's one thing, but not in certain situations.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Like once in a while, stickle would, and I'm like, before he would even start, I love stickle to death, but I would slap him upside the head, shut up, boom. You know, um, just react, just do what we're doing.

SPEAKER_01

But do what we're doing. Even to counterbalance that, we had a chunk of people who had a huge amount of experience. I mean, yourself and Neil are good examples of that, like you just said. But even in the other platoons, you had Lachard and McCabe who had come over. They had just done the invasion and then came straight over from uh 3-5 to us and joined our platoons. We had uh Staff Sergeant Coleman, who had previous combat experience, we had Gunny Mararkey, who had previous combat experience. We had I mean it was a weird, it's such a weird mix of like very senior people with very, very junior people, and it it worked well in that way.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think it worked out great. And the fact that like I said, I knew Marockey from my first enlistment when he was a sergeant.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um, I mean who I love to death. But he's one of those guys. You either love him or hate him.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But you have to respect him.

SPEAKER_01

Yep.

SPEAKER_00

Because he knows what he's talking about. He's not there for all the bullshit, he's there for kind of like he's there for the fight. You know what I mean? For sure. He's not gonna be, he's all about the fight, you know. Um, and he might say something that you don't want to hear, and he might say it just the way he probably shouldn't be saying it. But he's what he's saying is right. It's you better value it. You know. Um I just I don't know. I think about it's just a crazy experience, man. And uh it's such a unique situation for all those young kids to be in.

SPEAKER_03

And yeah, I so recently, I think it was yesterday, I started trying to be like, okay, I need to, I was looking at the picture and I was like, I can't remember everybody's names. I need to actually write down everybody that was in 81s, and so I did both platoons, and there are there, I mean, there's 30 some odd in each section. And when I'm going through it, there's a good chunk that we did a long time with, but then there's a quite a few, especially on the Rainmaker side, that got dropped over there, and for the life of me, I can't pull up their face because they were so junior. Yeah, and it's it's it's absolutely wild to think about like that we were that we went to combat with these guys without really knowing them, and a testament to them too, because they boy did they step up to the plate.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, as you say, they didn't know you either.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00

It goes both ways, yeah. And then you know, they were definitely so you think about it being the young guy. I mean, so if you're 18, 19 or however old you are, and you're going to the fleet, even if there's no war going on before in peacetime, it's still a stressful situation.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00

Going to the fleet is a boot. Um, especially the way like they don't know it, but the way I was treating them, like treating them like booths, you know, having fun with it. Um, and then and throw on to the fact that they are gonna get thrown into combat. Um and I mean some of them, the first time they bezio their weapons were correct for combat.

SPEAKER_03

Yes, you know at Hurricane Point. Yep.

Mosque Chaos And The Video Camera

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I mean, it was it was a wild deal. It was a wild deal for them. So you know they were intimidated. I remember just another crazy situation is like oh in different firefights where I remember McNaughton. We were taking snipers, uh, we've taken individual fires. We believe it was a sniper shooting at us, and we could hear the round hitting him. There was a group of us on this intersection, and then there'd be some heavy fire pop off, and then it would just die off, and then we'd get the uh individual shots coming down, you could hear them. And um, I remember one of those times when uh it was multiple people shooting at us, we popped our head out and we would start shooting McNaughton at this intersection. He returned fire, but his barrel was literally about, I mean eight inches from my ear, like right next to my face. And he was behind me. Boom, he shot. And you know, even though you're in your weapon letting it rip, you're not expecting that sucker, that muzzle flash. I felt the heat off his muzzle flash on my face, and it felt like my ear exploded. And so I got so pissed off. Yank his ass behind me. I go off on him, and then you know, he's it's in the heat of the moment, and like maybe 20 more seconds, same stuff happens, and people will pop out, and we have to get on him. And that son of a bitch pokes his head out and shoots right by my ear again. And in the middle of this alley during a firefight, I'm butt stroking him. I'm butt stroking my own guy because he and it scared me. Like I think this dude's about to blow my head off because he's just inches away, and like my face is in front of his barrel. And looking back, like I said at the time I was pissed off. I mean, I'm you know, I'm I literally butt stroke him in the face. But you look back at it now, and it's funny as hell. Yeah, you know. Um just a lot of different stories like that. I can only imagine what they were thinking, what he was thinking at that time. He's getting his ass kicked by his old guy, um when other people are shooting at us. Um just think about that chaos, man. It's it's it's um how would you explain it? I don't know. It's like nothing that you can compare to, right? But I don't like I like I liked all that, you know. I liked all that.

SPEAKER_01

Well, that's the beauty of this, is that we try to get all these little stories from everybody's perspective, and then you kind of get a picture of the chaos because you get a little piece of it from everybody.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So what day do you guys remember um what was it? Was it the um the 10th when we um what was it? Was it the 10th when we were gonna go into that mosque? Like we were really gonna actually we were gonna go into the mosque.

SPEAKER_03

We know that's much that's much later on. Far later it's late July. Late July. Are you talking are you talking about when the guys went in and they shot and there's all pandemonium? Well, that's when the dumbass Turk shot himself. That's the end of July.

SPEAKER_00

That was July, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Wow, I did not see my dates are coming. But that was hilarious. I mean, the dude ended up like shooting his first blowing his toes off, and then the impact was he shot the IP Iraqi police guy right in his ass.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, well, he shot more than that. He shot some he he broke he brought the one guy he broke he shot him in the both shins, and another guy got shot in the gut, and another guy got shot in the ass. He shot himself in the foot. But but uh do you remember how that all went down?

SPEAKER_00

Well, I remember he had a um for for whatever reason he was allowed to carry a weapon, but one of them had a camera, right?

SPEAKER_03

There that's the key story.

SPEAKER_00

And they were getting corner and we were gonna video, uh-huh. And um and I just remember that camera light flopping around.

SPEAKER_03

So so okay, so let me let me let me just remind you of the story. So, what happened is is that um we gave one of the terps a video camera to videotape the entire thing, yeah. He got really excited about being able to use the video camera and was like showing everybody, like the like our guys, that he had the video camera was talking about and it's like that's it. And so everybody else went in and we were like, get the fuck in there, and so he ran in. And whoever it was that ended up shooting off the road, he was the guy from Dearborn.

SPEAKER_01

His name was Mike. Mike, Mike, Mike, the interpreter from from Dearborn, Michigan. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

He ended up shooting because he thought it was like somebody that was coming in with an IED, and he got scared, and that's and he had his finger on the trigger and just shot like everybody, and that one IP ran out the door, and we couldn't figure out what the fuck was happening on the inside. Yep, so anyways, I look back at like he blew we blew his own toes off and everything. Yes, oh well, he looks hilarious. He he lost that foot because he refused to get pulled out because he wanted the money, right? He wanted to make money, and then he almost he got gang green or something.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, a hundred percent. He ended up losing like half of his foot. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I had to so I I only know the back end of that story because I had to hold him down while Rake Brandt cut off his boot to take a look at it. And at that point, that was the grossest infected wound I had ever seen in my life. And uh and Rake Brandt was like, Oh, oh yeah, you gotta go. You gotta go. We gotta go see the surgeon. We're going over to Junction City, and yeah, and then he left. He did, he ended up losing his foot.

SPEAKER_00

Because he came from stateside, he was making way more money than the other money money. He was making like 400 a day or something, wasn't he? I I don't know, but he was yeah, it was something out he had like a legit contract, and these other guys were getting they were getting Iraqi money, you know, they weren't getting fat. So he wanted to stay in Milky Milk. He stayed, it cost him that tool.

SPEAKER_03

At that point, it was Wilbur, um, Rocco, um, I think there's a Danny and a Mike. Yep. I think is the four that we had yeah. Uh towards the end of the deployment.

SPEAKER_00

So and I don't know how any, I don't know how many were even trustworthy. I feel like Rocco was trustworthy.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um, I know that uh well, I think this is true, but um it will one of the um we went to a house, I believe, somewhere, I can't remember when and where, but I believe I heard the story that that Wyler got on the um like they had a phone and he hit like the star six seven or whatever, where it makes it our star six nine where you can redial it. Remember when you could do that on landlines back then? Yeah, yeah. And they answered that phone from the from the house that was a target, and it like when he did whatever he did, it rang back at where our terps were staying. Well, that's funny. They were they were in contact with the target house, so they were essentially setting us up, sir.

SPEAKER_03

We our first rounds of terps all got relieved. Um, we ended up killing one um during a raid um because he was helping out with the raid, um, or the ambush, excuse me. He he was a part of the ambush, it was a night ambush. Um, and that might have come out of that larger story. I I don't that sounds vaguely familiar. Um, but then and then if you remember, then we had that short when we had those Moroccan interprets that didn't speak Arabic.

SPEAKER_00

No, they spoke the wrong language, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

They spoke the wrong language. Our our beautiful State Department didn't understand that Moroccan and Arabic were two wildly different.

SPEAKER_00

Might as well just sent the Chinese. I mean, it wouldn't have happened at that point.

SPEAKER_03

I think the people that we had at the end were pretty. I I I was legitimately friends with Cosm uh Wilbur at the end. He was a he was a real solid dude.

SPEAKER_00

But yeah, I remember Wilbur being good. I remember Rocco being good. I just I you know it's hard to trust anybody in that situation for except for the dudes wearing uh blouse that says marines on it, you know.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah, especially with the number of blue and blues. I mean, even the army was like, Well, are you gonna shoot at us today?

SPEAKER_00

Don't get me started on that. Do you guys end up having a blue on blue? No, but we just so many times, especially when we were like on OPs and stuff, this happened to us. And it was very close to shooting back at them. Um, they had we're we're on the on the bridge, you know that post on the bridge. And um, it was at night, and they had got hit by an ID. We'd seen the ID go off, and you just see tracer rounds flying everywhere. So the army was just shooting in a 360, and tracer rounds were coming right at us on the bridge. I'm like, they have no freaking, they're just spraying and praying, they're not directing any gunfire towards any specific target and little things like that. Like when we started getting rounds coming, I was like, all right. And I told myself, is if we see keep seeing tracers coming at me, we're gonna send some tracers back their way, and maybe they'll get the message. Yeah, but um, it didn't come to that, thank God.

SPEAKER_03

Um unfortunately, there's more than one story of that's how we got the army to stop shooting at us, is that we literally had to return, we literally had to return fire.

April 10 Bug Hunt And The IED

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, no, that's no joke. I mean absolutely um it was crazy. Can you imagine that? Getting in a firefight with the army in Iraq. I don't know. I just I always reflect back to um I believe it was April 10th, just the day we had I think we went down to the river. That's that's the day when we pushed a bunch of people out. Tell me if I'm wrong. We found all the hospitals out there. Was that on April 10th?

SPEAKER_01

So depending on which one you remember, uh, you were a part of both. So April 8th would be Operation County City. County Fair, right? Which which was a little smaller, uh, but that was the one where we found a lot of the field hospitals and supplies. Very limited as far as any firefights go. But 10th was the opposite. We surrounded the majority of the Sophia district, uh, and that was when they had the loudspeakers out, they were calling out the guys and playing rock and roll music, and the cobras were overhead. And that was when a lot more engagement, a lot more. I mean, I I think I remember some of the guys from the line companies, you know, saying things like this was like revenge day, basically. Like they we called a lot of people out, and they had a lot more engagements than I think even most of the weapons company people did.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Um so we had the bug hunt on the 10th, right? Yes. And that's so we went, man, we were that's when we were going from location, we'd go from one fight on our way to another. Yep. Like we went from Echo and then we um we went to reinforce golf and we got attacked on the way there.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

A Ten-Foot Gunfight

SPEAKER_00

That was the um, you know, on the way there, that's I believe I talked to you guys before I told you this. It's when um I don't know if they were trying to set the IED off on my truck or the truck in front of me, but it went off right between us. And it I mean, it barely missed both of us, but it just the little girl that was standing out in front. I remember just looking at her, and then the explosion goes off, and then everything you don't see anything but dust and explosion. And then um, when it all cleared, she was just she was gone. She was completely like disintegrated. And she might have been 10 years old, nine years old. Which, you know, I got a I got a son that's 10 now, and you thinking about that, it's like wow. That's when we started, you know, we knew like these people that were fighting right now, they're not from here. Right, you know, they're putting bombs out in front of these, you know, neighborhoods, killing these kids just to get a shot at us, you know. Yeah, um, yeah, that's and that's was actually the 10th, um, that was my sister's birthday, is when the um I had the guy open up on me from from 10 feet away. Right, you know, um that was by far the craziest situation of my life. Um yeah, that was wild. Can you imagine that? Like it reminds me of like the sound of the gunfire when when Lieutenant Um Dobb and them got hit when they were ambushed. Um as we're clearing up this up this high grass to go get somebody that had been shot earlier. That's when we see that's when I see this this man laying out there that we had shot, and he's kind of moving, he's his body's still flinching. I'm like, all right, he's still alive. And he's got an inca still on him, okay? As we're marching up, not marching up, but as we're walking up, I'm kind of asphyxiated on him. That's when I tell Captain Weiler, he's behind me, good, you know, good ways, but he's still behind me. I say, hey, I'm gonna go ahead and shoot this guy again. And he told me not to. I probably should I don't know if I should have just done it anyway, but uh anyway, as we're walking up, that's just I'm asphyxiated on this one guy, thinking if as soon as I get close enough, he's gonna either fall an A at me or he's going to um he's gonna grab that AK that's laying on his stomach. Um either way, I I I can't take my eyes off of him. So I have no peripheral vision. Now I'm like laser focused in, and then out of nowhere boom boom thing. I mean see the way just the sound alone of those guns gunfire coming at you. And you gotta understand, like, I wasn't looking that way. I was looking straight. And to the right of me was was that that dude sitting down in um the high grass. He had a I believe it was an RPK on bipods, and it was like a little, it wasn't a ditch area, but uh, but it was like a he could it, yeah, it might have been some kind of hole or whatever that he was in, slope. And um, so he was hitting pretty good, but just hear the gun rounds and that right there, that's when everybody hit the deck. And without even so I'm still trying to figure out for a fraction of a second where this is even coming from. Because you gotta gather yourself real quick, and you don't have any time to think. You think long, you think wrong, right? Um as soon as I turn myself, I mean it happens so quick, you don't even have time to get in your sights, you just point and shoot, you know. So he had already been shooting at me. We counted 29 um 29 um casings right there um after we I ended up killing the guy. So there's no telling how many times he had shot at me first, and this is all just a fraction of a second, and you just get up on him, and I remember seeing this is no bullshit, the whites of his eyes. That's how close he was. And I just kept going towards him, and I probably shot I don't know, 10 times. I know about six to eight of them hit him. Um but at the very end of that, like by the time I got done killing him, I mean I was touching him. I remember the smoke having to clear from his gun so I could end up seeing him, you know, at one point. After we after it had already started. Um it's just a crazy deal. Like, you don't have time to react, you don't have time to think. You just hope that your body has net those natural instincts, I guess, to react. Because he got the the jump on me, and I I just think he had to be. the worst shot in the history of war goes back again to the point I was telling you a lot of it has to do with like being lucky yeah and that had nothing you know that it had a lot to do with with me living through that day it's you know you just hope you're you're gonna react that way and thank god I did I don't even you didn't have time to think about it so it's it's really the ultimate fight of my life I mean within the next it's going down and you know within less than a second somebody's gonna die it's either gonna be him or it's gonna be me um it just so happened I killed him and I I was able to to fight another day and he was never gonna kill anybody again um yeah it was just holy crap thinking about it you towards the end of that Leilong did come up the last couple shots Leilong came out of the blue my my if I'm Batman that's my Robin you know um he comes just like he does from nowhere and ends up shooting a guy a couple times uh towards the end too just to help finish him off um but that was um I remember that that was on my sister's birthday so if I would have got killed that day that would have been all her birthday yeah yeah yeah and it would have been a tough deal but I remember when it was all said and done the adrenaline rush I can't even put it into words because I have nothing to compare it to but it was something that will never be replicated. Um and I just remember Herscher grabbing the video camera and um filming and I I he asked me a question I was like you know back then the SGLI if you got killed was what$250,000? Oh yeah I was like my mom don't know how close she just got to getting paid 250k that's too funny it was wild I remember I had the video camera after that and that's when um I I that's when or Captain Wyler had the shrapnel on his face from the rounds hitting right because he was behind me. Yeah um I believe it when I talked to you before I mentioned it but um yeah like he he in the book you know gave me credit for saving his life and that's a um he's a general now you bet your ass can take pride in that you know even though he wanted to probably kick me out of the Marine Corps when we first got over there um from all the trouble I was getting into beforehand but it all worked out in the long run. See violence is the answer guys until violence is always the answer.

Purple Hearts And Awards Reality

SPEAKER_01

So I'm curious uh now that you say this did you end up ever getting wounded during the deployment at all? Yeah I got two purple hearts but compared to what other people got it's very superficial you know well even then what uh I I don't know that I knew the stories behind those what uh what were the two instances where you got wounded um one was an IED and one was a um the um what was um it was an it was a they had mortared hurricane point and it was me it was a gunny from um I believe Motor T and somebody else over that we were doing laundry and the round hit right I mean right there on Saddam's castle or whatever the hell we were standing right there.

SPEAKER_00

And then the shrapnel got us from that but it was funny because it it wasn't a um it wasn't a H E round like it didn't have it was what it did was it hit the it hit the building and it was like the broken part of the building coming in and hitting me in the face and and that's what that was. And then there was like a we don't know if it was gas or we don't know if it was um gunpowder. Okay um but um yeah battalion commander come out he was like what what we're like we we don't even know like we didn't it just we knew it was like probably a mortar round or something that had hit but it didn't have your high impact it just it smashed the wall he came out and he thought like your eyes were burning and town commander thought it was from gunpowder and I just remember one of the um I won't say his name but the gunny from one of the gunnies there was just trying to milk that town commander's like what's wrong and I told him I was like that guy's just being a pussy you know he's like hey he isn't he is a gunny I said yes sir you know um so that was I don't know one of the perks of I guess being a Hodges you can call a gunny a pussy and not get in trouble for town commander. Yeah but um it was that and then the other time was um it was the on the day that the home got and hurling got IED yeah sure and then that was the other one.

SPEAKER_01

So the gas there the shell that you're talking about that hit the palace was that June 8th do you haven't remember the date uh I don't even know it was show purple heart so I was curious if you'd have to look at it yeah I'd have to look I mean I'm like I said I can't tell you I remember the incidents but I don't remember the days very good. Yeah so on June 8th there were two rounds that hit the palace that I can remember and one of them was a uh CS gas show.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah it might have been and it was early in the morning. Yeah yeah yeah and we were the only like I was over there doing my laundry and that happened and I just remember more than anything getting pissed off at that gunny for acting like oh my God I didn't care like they're like you need to go to BAS right now and I said no I'm fine like I'm fine I'm I'm alive I can see everything's great and um he's over there faking it like he's got this major concussion I'm like come on dude it just really pissed me off and I I have a problem without being able to shut my mouth sometimes uh um I mean he doesn't know but yeah to this day that whole situation what makes me mad is that that one individual and less so obviously about uh enemy shooting badges but did you ever receive a personal award did you receive a personal award for that engagement you were talking about um yeah I got the um a Navy Calm with combat V.

Final Thoughts And Subscribe

SPEAKER_01

Nice and was it like during the citation was it specifically for that engagement with the the guy with the RPD or RPK? Yeah it was for that it was for a few things like that was in the beginning of the um awards writing I mean uh looking back at it I mean they they rolled a couple of things into it you know sure did you did you get that in country or was that after we got back no I got that in country you know um I I find this fascinating all uh for multiple reasons I have a weird personal obsession with the awards process from 2004 uh not that I necessarily think that everybody deserved you know a lot but take that just that story in isolation and put it in any other deployment with any other group uh you would have likely gotten a bronze star right like i that's uh i if not higher for that that level of of activity and there were other there were other units that were in our ao that people got bronze and silver stars yeah for that for far less no for far less no i agree so for uh first arnellas rest in peace um when when that award ceremony is over you know and you originally they only put it in for an um yeah and he came to me and said dude they're gonna bump this you should be getting a bronze star i didn't even really know anything i was like like it didn't matter to me at the time like will i really want it if i was gonna be i wanted that combat action ribbon you know what i mean right um and and like i said um it was early in the process so like you didn't have a lot to gauge it from sure so yeah i know it could have been a lot higher um and and first sernellis told me that but i i wasn't you know i wasn't tripping on it or anything like that yeah interesting but um you know the same thing with you talking about savage's award and i i truly applaud lieutenant dob for even taking the time after the fact to making sure savage got an award but the things described just your i mean even the things you described of him now uh easily braun star worthy right like i i oh yeah listen listen the guy was taking rounds off the turret six inches in front of his face yeah and and like i said half the people still got their head down in their lap trying to figure out where in the hell people don't realize like that deafening sound of machine guns going off when it surprises you and you know they're going off because they're trying to kill you like you gotta how you react is everything yeah um and there's a human reaction which is usually see cover and figure out and then assess it savage you know he took no time dude he popped up on there and from where like my vantage view I saw it all we couldn't do really anything about it um until after the fact we could get out and we started to to move and and do whatever we could but I'm telling man those guys had free reign and if they'd have somebody shooting back at them they had no reason to stop shooting at him right you know and he saved lives with I'm telling with the rounds bouncing off front of his face it's impressive yeah well uh we've been going about another good hour hour and 15 minutes I can definitely weave all this together is there anything else that you were thinking that you wanted to cover I appreciate actually some of the details you've brought into this it'll it'll make a good complete story it'll be good uh I I'm glad you've reached out to kind of put in some more of this it'll it'll make it nice yeah I w I just I'm trying to think um I believe I've said pretty much all the other stuff um nice good yeah I believe so all right man I sure appreciate it guys if you like what you heard make sure you subscribe for future episodes on your favorite podcast service