What Happens After You Accept Death - William Webster (part 2 of 2)

Part 2 with Billy Webster from Mobile Assault Platoon 2 and trace the days when contact kept stacking, ammo ran low, and every decision started to feel permanent. He also talks honestly about what follows you home, how we cope in the quiet moments, and why asking for help can be the most disciplined thing you do. 
William shares what he saw, what he did, and what he still carries, including the detail that the last things you do might matter more than you realize.

• April 6 as QRF and the shock of casualties 
• Foot patrol IED sweeps
• Relieving pinned-down Marines and evacuating wounded 
• A house breach that almost killed a family 
• April 10 cordon operations
• The checkpoint pickup with blood and bodies 
• Taking over as a gunner
• Getting shot... and then staying in the turret 
• Calling home after being wounded
• Hooch life pranks and small rituals that kept him going
• PTSD years later, funerals, brotherhood, and choosing therapy 

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Transcript

Back Into April 6 Ramadi

SPEAKER_03 0:36

It's part two with Billy Webster from Mobile Assault Platoon 2. Well, anyway, you already started to talk about it, so let's go ahead and lead on into the April 6th, man. You can go right on into that if you want.

SPEAKER_07 0:47

Um so what I remember from April 6th is I I I want to say we were QRF. Because I know we weren't on any of the bridges and we weren't out originally, but I know um the line companies were doing their morning sweeps. It sounds when you think about it now, it sounds so ridiculous. They're sending they're sending guys out on foot to go look for IEDs. These fucking things that explode under you, and we're we're sending guys out to go look at them with little metal detectors, and and I'm like, you know, you you think back and we're like, we are crazy for some of the shit we did. Um, but I remember the you know, the line companies were going out to do their thing, and I think it was golf originally, was the first one to take contact, and they were getting they they got overran and they were taking most of the casualties at that point. Um and then it was like April 6th, just one after another, everybody started taking contact. Um you know, and like I said being down there, you know, and knowing most of the guys that I went to SOI and everything were were part of that.

unknown 2:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 2:17

Um, you know, and later on, as you got the information, um you know, knowing that a lot of them either took significant cas uh significant wounds or they became casualties. Um that was that was definitely one of the other things that like hit home to know that I'm never like you know, if if I make it home, I'm never seeing any of those guys again. Like, we're gonna be having memorials for them, and that's the last time you're going to be hearing their name. You know, um, it was definitely those days were definitely like brought the realness to all of what we were doing, and you know, later down the road it made you wonder what the hell's going on? Like, is it gonna be my time? You know, who's who's you started looking around and you're going, who's gonna be here towards the end of this deployment? If they could do that to all of those guys, what's going on with us? You know, it was it was a scary time. I mean, um, I don't remember when we went out. I know we ended up going out. I think we were probably one of the last elements of weapons company to go out, if I remember correct.

SPEAKER_03 3:45

We were third out on the sixth. Map three went out first, Rainmaker went out second, we went out third.

SPEAKER_07 3:51

Yeah, I remember I remember we were going out there. Um I don't I don't remember exactly what we were doing after everybody else was out there already. Um, I know on the way, I think Muster, you guys took contact and got bogged down for a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 4:11

Rainmaker did. I was in Sledgehammer, and so we were on we were on guard. So oh okay.

SPEAKER_07 4:17

Oh, so you guys took the week off.

SPEAKER_03 4:25

I mean, not for long. They uh yeah. Six and six and the seventh uh we were out, but by the eighth, ninth, tenth, we started putting the uh the headquarters guys up on the bridges and pulled all the weapons company elements out.

SPEAKER_07 4:43

So yeah, yeah, we had didn't we? We had a few more. I think on the 10th, dude, and we have a like a firefighter something, something happened on the 10th.

SPEAKER_03 4:52

So our specific number yeah, our specific platoon, just uh you know, if there's anything that stands out, you can tell it. If not, it's it's been recounted. But on the 6th, we were third out the gate. Our goal was to go to the north area. Uh, that was where Echo Company was specifically. They had the snipers, and uh some of Echo Company's guys were pinned down. They had sent out a QRF and their QRF got overwhelmed as well. Yes. We ended up in a big shootout in the Sophia district. We eventually relieved them and evacuated their casualties. The seventh was not much different. We actually were not supposed to make the same turn, but uh Randall took the early left, and we ended up basically almost in the same neighborhood, two days in a row, uh, just a little south.

SPEAKER_07 5:36

I remember on the seventh, yeah. Um, when we were traveling down, and Randall was the first truck, he was a VC, and I I believe Moselle was his driver.

SPEAKER_03 5:49

Um he was often his gunner, but he might have been the driver that day.

SPEAKER_07 5:54

Yeah, I think he was the driver at that time. Okay, um, we were the second truck, and I remember I don't know why, but I had a headset. And I remember them screaming up to Randall not to make the left. Yep. And he went and made the left, and later on, he he ended up telling us he couldn't hear us or something. I don't know. Um, but at that point, we had Lieutenant Stevens. Lieutenant Stevens didn't want to be the VC, so we had Calais, Jordan, uh E, myself, and then Lieutenant Stevens in the back. Um, and I remember him screaming to Jordan, telling him not to make the left. And he made the left, and as soon as we made that left, we ran head on into an ambush. And I remember we got into that firefight, and I believe that's the firefight we like ran dry to where we had to get out of there. And um Gunny Mirakey like basically opened the like the base to everybody and was like, take as much ammo as you want.

SPEAKER_03 7:07

So the day we ran dry was the day we ran the day we ran dry was the sixth, and that was when he uh yeah, that was when he opened up all the ammo.

SPEAKER_07 7:16

The seventh I remember we got back and he was like he opened the like it was like the gates of heaven open up and said, just take what you want. We were just like like we we had the uh we took the uh the mark 19 cans and was linking up all the 50 cal. We had like 300 rounds in any of those cans. Not that most of us can lift it up to the damn gunner after that, but you know, we we had tons. I don't think we ever ran out of ammo after that. No, we didn't. But I remember that. But we ended up, if you remember, we ended up blowing up that uh oil tanker.

SPEAKER_03 7:55

Live it on fire, yeah.

Running Dry And The Tanker Fire

The Door We Chose Not To Breach

SPEAKER_07 7:56

We were going down the street, and I was I I remember I'm like, I'm like, what the hell is that heat? And all of a sudden I turn around and I just see this huge fire, and I'm like, who the fuck did that? And then that was that was one of the first times I actually heard because I was posted up on a tree, and then there was somebody on the other side of the tree, and somebody took a shot, and it went right between us into the tree, and all you heard was that scream of the round, and it the snap and the scream. And I remember I go, I was like, holy shit, that's what the fucking round sounds like. I'm like, oh fuck. Like, okay, I'm like, I don't want that anywhere near me again. Um actually, that's where I got my first purple heart. Um, somebody shot an RPG from behind and it blew up and caught me in my in my shoulder. And I caught shrapnel in my shoulder and fucked up my shoulder. And um, I remember the the RPG hitting and the force like pushed us forward, and that's how we ended up on the damn tree. Yeah. And hearing that round, I may or may not have pissed myself at that point. I don't know. That was like one of the scariest noises I I think I heard at that point. Um, but yeah, I remember us, you know, we pushed up, we blew up that that tanker, and like we ended up uh, you know, heading through houses and everything, trying to to find all the guys. Um, you know, we we did a pretty good job of getting most of them, and whoever we didn't get ended up running away. Yeah. Um, I don't remember that. Wasn't the day. Was that the day that uh we went to go into a house and it was barricaded? And the family ended up, we were gonna we were gonna shoot down the front door with the uh AT4, and the family ended up behind it was they were behind the door, and then we were like, no, no, no, let's wait and try to find another way in. Thank God we did because we would have killed the family.

SPEAKER_03 10:11

Yeah, I wasn't there for that, but yes, that was the story that was told.

SPEAKER_07 10:14

Yeah, yeah, because I I remember we all looked and we couldn't get into this house, and there was a reason we wanted to get into this house. I think we saw a trail of blood or something, something that we wanted to get into this house, might have been a vantage point, whatever. And they were like, Okay, well, this door is not moving. So we're like, Well, what do you want to do? We could either blow it up or we can get the AT4 and shoot it. So they're like, Well, get the AT4. So I think it was Miranda ended up getting the AT4, and then somebody turns around and goes, Hold on, it's a big house. Let's see if we could find somewhere else to get in. And they ended up going around the back, and we found a door that was open. And whoever ended up finding that door, we went in, and right behind that front door was a family of like five or six. And if we would have shot that door, it would have killed them all.

SPEAKER_03 11:15

Yeah.

April 10 Cordon And Bug Hunt

SPEAKER_07 11:16

So I I we all looked at that and we were like, thank god. Like, you know, thank god we didn't do that. Um, you know, obviously cooler heads prevailed on that one. So, like I said, I don't know why we were at this house, whether it was a vantage point or whatever, but we wanted to get in it for one reason or another, and we ended up getting in there.

SPEAKER_03 11:39

Yeah, and then on the 10th was the first big bug hunt. That was where everybody in Weapons Company was out. And that was in there driving up and down the street with the speakers and playing the music and calling everybody out to fight. We were on the very south edge of Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we were on the very south edge of the cordon, and we didn't um we didn't catch like a ton of action, but we did have a truck that tried to or a car that tried to run through our checkpoint, we shot at that, and then we got into a short skirmish later, but it was it was minutes, it wasn't long like the days prior.

SPEAKER_07 12:13

Yeah, no, I I I remember, like I said, I remember the 10th, but I like I don't I didn't remember exactly what we had going on, but I knew there was something that day. Um you remember down by the arches? They had uh Saddam had the two uh the two swords that made like an arch.

SPEAKER_03 12:36

I don't think there were any swords in Ramadi. That wasn't what that there, but there was arches.

SPEAKER_07 12:42

Down by those arches, if you remember, I don't know what we were down there for.

SPEAKER_03 12:47

I don't remember swords, but I believe you.

SPEAKER_07 12:49

Um I think they were swords. I'm I might be wrong, but they were they were we were down by some arches.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

I think they were stylized swords.

SPEAKER_03 12:56

Were they okay?

The Blood Truck At The Checkpoint

SPEAKER_01 12:57

Yeah, the arches, the arches were stylized swords.

SPEAKER_03 13:00

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_07 13:01

Yeah, and we were down there for something, and I remember again, it was the middle of the night, and down in the distance we heard an explosion. Had no idea what it was. We were too far away to realize to realize what it was, and we heard some shooting, and all of a sudden you see the the Iraqi police, you see the lights, they're come, they come flying up, and we stopped them. So we we were asking them what the hell happened, and you know, they're telling us whatever. And we had uh, I believe we had Rocco with us. So he he turned around and we asked them what was in the back of their pickup truck in the bed of the pickup truck because there was blood all over the outside of it. They had uh under a blanket, they had like it looked like two or three dismembered bodies.

SPEAKER_03 13:56

Yeah, I do remember.

SPEAKER_07 13:57

And after that, it like we lost it. Like they were like, Where are you coming from? Like it got intense after that because we're like there's blood there, you're coming from where the explosion happened, and you have this sitting in the back of your truck. What like what are you not telling us? And they're like, We're we're good, like and they're trying to tell us they're good and to let them go and all this stuff. And we're like, Do we let them go? Do we detain them? Like, what do we do? And if I remember correctly, I think we ended up letting them go. Um, Rocco didn't want to, Rocco didn't want to let anybody go.

SPEAKER_02 14:38

No, he didn't.

SPEAKER_07 14:40

Rocco was was he's a bad guy, detain him, kill whatever. And that was the end of his story. Um, but I think we ended up letting them go. But we were like, I remember looking at that, and I was like, Did you guys just fucking see what I saw? Like, like there's a whole bunch of body parts in the back of that truck, and we're just letting them go. Like that's not weird, you know. But then you look at it and you're like, you're in Iraq. Back in the States, weird. Iraq, not too weird.

SPEAKER_03 15:16

I think that was one of those things where we didn't we couldn't discern what they were doing, because like it made sense for cultural practices to try to get the bodies to the place where they should be processed and buried and things like that, but it didn't make sense why they were driving out of the city because they they should have been driving to a mosque, to the hospital, to the ed to anywhere other than out to the farms.

SPEAKER_07 15:42

So, like I mean, if you think yeah, because if you think about it, think about all the stuff they probably passed on the way there, right? To to from where they were to us, and it's like you probably passed a hospital, a mosque, you probably passed all this stuff already.

SPEAKER_03 15:58

But at the same time, why did you stop there? I we we couldn't figure out what what bad thing could they do with body parts, and so we were like, all right, just see ya, see you later.

SPEAKER_07 16:08

It's not like see you later. It was it was one of those weird situations. It's like, do you detain them and ask them further questions trying to figure out what the hell happened? Yeah, or do you just go screw it and let them on their way?

SPEAKER_03 16:25

Right, exactly.

Levee Runs And Taking The Gun

SPEAKER_07 16:26

Yeah, and I I think we all looked at each other and we were like, Do we really want to deal with this any further? It was there were so many weird situations that we just kind of were like, What do we do with this? And then you just kind of either you detained them, let them get interrogated, or you let them go. Yeah, and you know, a lot of times we were like, This is just not worth our time. So we ended up letting it go. I mean, you know, you remember uh driving on the on the uh levee and all that next to the one of the rivers, smelling all the trash and like you know, the burning bodies there, the burning trash, all of that stuff. Like, you know, you think back, like like I I've told you before, I honestly feel like my my brain has kind of shut off some of that stuff, but there's certain things like that you will never forget those smells and all of that stuff. It's like what the hell? Yeah, like that, those those it was horrible. You know, people want to talk about burn pits and stuff, yeah. Smelling some of that stuff on the levee, that was bad, you know. And there's no window you could roll up either when you have like an L an L-shaped door, you're like that shit's just hitting you like right square in the face. It was it was bad. You know, it's it's it's some of those weird times. You know, I remember at some point I ended up taking over being the gunner. Umai and and and uh Natividad. Yeah, doc n Doc Natividad, they had their situation. Um, so I ended up taking over being the gunner June.

SPEAKER_03 18:30

Sounds right, right? Somewhere around June.

SPEAKER_07 18:32

Somewhere around there, yeah. Um, and then we got the combat replacements. Bass ended up taking my seat. Um yeah, that whole story Jordan tells you. I don't remember none of that shit. I don't remember that.

SPEAKER_03 18:48

Not remember how to headspace and timing the gun.

SPEAKER_07 18:51

Yeah, I don't remember that. I'm not saying I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I don't remember that because I don't even remember us going out to the levee and um and and shooting at all. I don't remember us doing any of that. Um my bigger things of the levy is us driving through, you know, trying to take shortcuts or whatever, get here, get there, you know, doing the whole not making a pattern thing. Um, but I don't remember us actually like setting up on the levy and doing any shooting or whatever. So that was when I heard that, I was like, I was like, what the what the fuck's this? I was like, thanks, man. You know, I was like, I was like, sure, just just just throw that one out there. I can't defend myself. I don't fucking remember it.

The Shot Through Armor And Helmet

SPEAKER_03 19:44

Well, I remember one particular memory of you being a gunner, and I I would love to hear your version of it. Uh this was a little in the deployment because you had an up armored Humve and we had finally got the uh the armor for the back of the gunners, the sort of half clamshells. Yeah, I think I know where you're well I you please take over.

SPEAKER_07 20:08

So if if I if I remember what you're talking about, um it was the day I think we were going, I think we were escorting down to um combat outpost the cooks and everything. We were bringing food down to them.

SPEAKER_03 20:26

Yeah, the log train.

SPEAKER_07 20:27

Yeah, yeah, the log train. Um on the way back, I believe, we made it all the way down there, everything was fine. On the way back, um so I was facing the opposite way. So you so so obviously for everybody I know most of these guys were Marines that are gonna be listening, but they probably the front gun.

SPEAKER_03 20:51

There's a few civilians that listen.

SPEAKER_07 20:53

Yeah, so you had obviously you staggered them. You had the front gun that faced front, the rear gun that faced rear, and then in between you faced the opposite ways.

SPEAKER_03 21:01

Yeah, left or right.

SPEAKER_07 21:03

Um so the second gun gunner was facing the way that the sniper actually took the shot from. I was the third vehicle that was facing the opposite way. So I had my turn, my the back of my turret was facing from where the shot came, and then you had the fourth gun that was facing towards the sniper, or what did the shooter. I I don't I'm guessing it was a sniper. If it was, he was horrible. Um I till this day still believe, and and I don't know any of the other guys, that they were taking a shot at either the second or fourth truck. This guy took the shot, and thank God we had those uh the gunner straps to sit down on. Um, because there were times where we would be standing up in the guns. So we were all sitting down, going back, and I had my hand up, and I was sitting on a strap. I had my hand up, I was holding the the 50 cal, and the guy took the shot and it went right through the back of my turret. And as it went through, it hit me in the head, went through my helmet and then fucked up my wrist. Well, at that point, you got Lieutenant Stevens sitting next to me. You got Bass sitting on the other side, I believe. And then you had Calais and Jordan. And that happened. And from that point, I don't remember exactly if we stopped then and there. Because as soon as that happened, I got shot. I dropped. I like I fell right into the into the uh into the ground of the Hum V. And literally just my head went right between my legs. And when I woke up, I had blood from my wrist all over the side of my face. It was all over my my uh the camis of my right wrist. Um and I remember the first thing I hear is Lieutenant Stevens. Is he dead? We need to move him. We need to figure out. And I'm like, am I dead? So I'm sitting there, and I'm now having a conversation with Lieutenant Stevens and and Jordan. And I'm like, Well, if I'm dead, wouldn't that mean all of you are dead too? And Lieutenant Stevens goes, No, but you're dead. And I'm like, let's think this one out. I'm like, if I'm dead, you guys are are are with me in the same same train here. And he goes, Oh shit, you're alive. I'm like, yes. So I didn't realize what had happened.

SPEAKER_04 24:03

That's hilarious.

SPEAKER_07 24:04

Um I remember I I think our staff sergeant Coleman came up, and that's where I remember he's like, are you, you know, he asked me if I was all right or whatever, and I happened to look down and he goes, dude, you got shot in your head. And I was like, what? I was like, I'm like, I I can't see up there, so I I don't know. I was like, I'll take your word for it. And at that point, we were taking contact. So um they were like, well, get him out of the gun and assess his injuries. And I remember turning around and I told both of them, I said, if you get me, if if anybody tries to take me out, I will kick you. I said, I will, I will fight anybody that tries to take me out of the goddamn gun. And I had a headset for whatever, like we got headsets every now and then, the gunners did. I don't know how that was determined or whatever, but I remember telling them, I was like, if you take me out of the gun, I was like, This is where I need to be. If you take me out of the gun, I will kick and I will kick and scream out of the fucking gun. So they left me up there, and we were taking contact, and I remember hearing Sergeant Harden tell him to start shooting. I'm like, no problem. I pop up, I go to shoot, and my fucking wrist was fucked up to the point where I couldn't hold the gun. So I was essentially trying to aim and and and hold a 50 cal and shoot it with one hand while I'm like I'm I'm sitting there with my left hand and I'm trying to hold it with my right, and I'm pushing my chest into like trying to like stabilize it however the fuck I can. And I remember I ended up like hitting the corner of a building, uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 25:55

Really high.

Staying In The Turret Wounded

SPEAKER_07 25:56

Like, yeah, and like part of it came down and like got two of the guys, and I was like, Oh shit. I was like, look, I did something. Yeah, and I all I remember after that was Sergeant Hardin in the in my in my ear again. Get him down, he can't fucking do it. I'm like, I I uh uh you know, I'm like, all right, now I can't. Do you guys want? And after that, like we were almost done with the engagement, so they left me up there. Um, you know, but like I said, I couldn't hold the fucking gun worth of shit with my right hand. Yeah, I remember after that, you know, um, you know, we we go back and like Sergeant Harden gave me like this fucking look, like, you asshole, you should have got out of the fucking gun. But I didn't know when I told them I wanted to stay up there, I didn't know my fucking my wrist was that fucked up. I didn't like I didn't feel anything. The adrenaline pumping through fucking was was rushing through. I didn't hear anything, so I'm like, okay, I must be fine. Um, you know, so we got back and they checked it out. It wasn't fully fractured, but it was pretty fucked up. Um, to the point where Staff Sergeant Coleman was like considering not letting me go out for a few days to see how it was how it would uh you know react or whatever, or heal up or you know, anything of that nature. And I ended up going, I I ended up going out on everything that if I remember correct. Um I mean I might not have, but if if I if my memory, which like I said, is fucking half-ass at this point in my life. Um, I don't think I ever stayed back for anything. I think I I was out on everything after that still.

SPEAKER_03 27:50

So they gave you ice. I don't even know where they got ice. That was that was the miracle of this whole story to me, was that uh we got back and we got you ice. Somehow Bundy Bundy got ice from BAS, I guess. I don't know. I don't know what I mean.

SPEAKER_07 28:05

Bundy uh was amazing with the shit he could get. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 28:09

Yeah, somehow he got ice, and you iced your wrist for the rest of the day, and then Harden made you go up in the gun and do a functions check. And he's like, No, you you have to if you can use the wrist, then you can use the wrist and you'll go. And that was it, you were fine. You're I mean, yeah, you were shot in the head. That's the other thing, it's like you were shot and hit hard enough by a large enough round to knock you unconscious, and we were the hole.

SPEAKER_07 28:37

If you remember the hole that you could see straight, like it wasn't no little hole, you could see straight through that fucking thing.

SPEAKER_03 28:44

No, no, and it's funny. You're like, uh, if it in my opinion, that sniper sucked. I was like, I don't know. In my opinion, your ass was lucky because that thing went through the top of your head.

SPEAKER_07 28:56

Oh yeah. I I remember I looked at that and I'm like, just same a few inches higher. Yeah, that thing would have took my head right off. Exactly. There wouldn't have been no conversation where oh he's dead. No, I'm I'm still alive. It would have been no, he's dead. Like it would have took my head off. Yeah, um, so I definitely, you know, and and that was you know, I I remember because I used to try and sit a little bit higher to be able to see, and I remember Jordan telling me lower your fucking strap. Yep, and that was probably one of the first times that I did it. And I remember later on looking at him and going, Thank you, thank you, like you you essentially saved my fucking life right there. Yep. Um, you know, but that was one that was scary and funny and all all in the same time because like it's like okay, you got shot, you got knocked out, the round had enough velocity to the to to put you unconscious, then you woke up and had a whole conversation with your lieutenant and your sergeant that either I was dead or everybody was dead, or something happened. Yeah, and it was just it was one of those weird things.

SPEAKER_03 30:13

And to go through a quarter-inch cold rolled steel armor plate and through your helmet and knock your ass out. But I mean that was whatever they shot at you, it sucked. I remember the burn hole on the armor, so it was it looked like API ammo, right? We never we never knew for sure, but like it left narrowed down, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 30:33

We didn't narrow down what it was, but I remember everybody going, Holy shit, what the fuck was that? Yeah, I don't know. All I know is it it it did it didn't do what it was supposed to, but it it had an effect. Yeah, I remember um so I I actually got to keep that helmet.

SPEAKER_03 30:53

I was gonna ask, did you get to bring it home?

SPEAKER_07 30:55

Yeah, I actually have it, it's over in my my trunk. But I remember they um they wouldn't let me go out until they got me a new helmet because they were talking about how it was compromised. And I'm like, there's a fucking hole in it, of course it is. But I remember Lieutenant Stevens, I don't know where this conversation came up, but he was like, I'm gonna get you that helmet. And I'm like, Okay, sir, if you can, you can. If you can't, you can't. All of a sudden, one day he came back with it, and he goes, just put that away, tuck it away. Just you know, don't give them because apparently they gave him a hard time about getting it back or whatever. And I remember telling him, I was like, if you can't get it, don't don't worry. Because they were they used the extent were afraid I was gonna wear it still, and I'm like, it's got a fucking hole in it. Why would I wear it? And you have another one, you know, the extra AC or something. I don't know, but I'm like, there's a damn hole in it. Like, I have a new one, yeah. You know, why so he ended up getting it for me, and I ended up tucking it away in my sea bag, and it's it's in my trunk now.

SPEAKER_03 31:59

Nice. I'm glad you got it.

SPEAKER_07 32:02

But yeah, that was that was one of those times, like I was like, what the like I remember waking up and I was like, what the hell happened? Like, I went to sleep. I'm like, and I'm hearing rounds flying around us, and I'm like, what's going on? Yeah, I I remember when I told them because after after I told both of them that I would I would kick and scream coming out of the turret on the way back after everything was done. I'm like, what kind of shit did I just get myself into? Like, are are they gonna like bring me to the side and like you know, you're you're in trouble now? I'm like this little PFC talking to uh a first lieutenant and a sergeant, and I'm like, Did I really just fucking say that to them?

SPEAKER_03 32:54

If it was bad enough, they'd have yanked you out. It was good enough.

Hooch Life Pranks And Coping

SPEAKER_07 32:56

Well, well, Sergeant Jordan, I mean, you know, Sergeant Jordan and uh and Lieutenant Stevens were were both great guys. They were you know they joked around and had fun just as much as we did. Yeah, you know, I mean, we we between all of us, we did whatever to to you know keep ourselves loose, dude. That's and not think about where we were, yeah, you know, as much as possible. I mean, think about it. We played volleyball, we played dodgeball. I mean, we did a whole bunch of just anything and everything to keep our minds off of stuff, yeah. You know, it was it was whatever.

SPEAKER_03 33:35

That's a perfect segue, man. Because I was gonna ask you, what do you what do you remember of Hooch Life and uh and kind of hanging out when we weren't on mission?

SPEAKER_07 33:42

Well, I remember, and I don't know why, but we had to stay up one night. And most of the time when we were on QRF, you could take a rest, whatever, but you know, you had to have everything in the truck and ready to go if we got called. I remember getting us getting told, you know, you you could be in your rack, but don't go to sleep. So it's getting late, it's getting late. And next thing I know, I'm waking up and all you assholes drew on my face. I I passed out, I don't remember it. And I woke up and I had fucking black marker on my face, and I'm like, all right, who did you know? I'm like looking around, and nobody's like, no, we no, I don't know what you're talking about. And till this day, I still have no idea how many who any of that. Just I know I passed out and somebody or somebody's drew on my face.

SPEAKER_03 34:44

Yeah, dude, I don't know who drove on your face either.

Calling Home After Getting Hit

SPEAKER_07 34:46

Yeah, I uh I'm sure you don't. I remember, I mean, but but I mean, you know, you think about it, look at the the the stupid stuff we did, you know, that the you know playing the jokes on Bundy, New Meyer, like all any of us, like a whole bunch of just Radsky planting uh uh a stick in the ground and hoping it would watering it every day, and hoping it would it would uh it would grow. I mean, we we like like I said, anything and everything just to to pass the time because when stuff happened, I mean when I when I got shot that day, um you know, we still got to use the phones because whenever any tragedies or anything happened, the phones went down so they could talk uh you know talk to the families and let them know instead of hearing it through the grapevine of anybody. You know, they wanted to be the first ones to let you know, hey, X, Y, and Z happened to your husband, wife, you know, son, whatever. Yeah um, but I remember that day, so you know, that happened to me, but I remember the phones were still up. Yeah, so at that time I was married. So I remember calling well, now my ex-wife, but then my wife. And I remember I made a joke out of it because I was I was like, you know, I'm going to tell her, which I didn't want to, but some way, shape, or form she would have found out because she found out every fucking thing. Um I was like, okay, I'm gonna tell her. So I remember getting on the phone and you had to wait, and you got a purple heart for that, right?

SPEAKER_03 36:43

You got a purple heart for the rip, you got a purple heart for the wrist, right?

SPEAKER_07 36:46

I got I got two purple hearts. One for the for the for the uh the shrapnel in my back, and then that one, yeah. I probably could have got it. I probably I hate when people say, Yo, you won purple hearts. Motherfucker, I didn't it's not like I I went set out and said, I want to fucking get a purple heart. You don't win a purple heart, asshole. You like that's the one thing you don't want, right?

SPEAKER_01 37:11

Um, you know, but I like calling them enemy marksmanship badges.

SPEAKER_07 37:16

Yeah, uh essentially, you know, and I I always hated when people say that, oh, you got two purple hearts, you won them. Yeah, it's like a basketball game. I won that.

SPEAKER_03 37:28

I mean, they probably they probably would have contacted your wife uh since you were wounded.

SPEAKER_07 37:33

I mean, uh that's what happened with me, is they did what and all my and she never got contacted for any of that, no. Because I like I said, I ended up, you know, we had that trailer with the phones and everything, and you had to get the cards and call. Um, it took me recharging going through the whole card and recharging it before she actually believed that I got shot because I was like, I didn't want to just go, hey, uh, by the way, I'm just letting you know, I got shot. I'm okay, everything's fine. Like, I played it off as like a joke to kind of like try to to to downplay it. Like, I'm I'm fine, this happened, but don't worry. Um, and she's sitting on the other line going, no, you're you're it's a joke, you're playing. Well, yes, it is a joke, but it it was real, like it happened, but I'm trying to make it so you stay calm. Um, you know, but she finally was like, Are you fucking serious? I'm like, Yes, I'm like, this happened. You you got nothing to worry about. So when anybody else, you know, uh comes to you and says, Hey, did you hear blah blah blah? You already know there's there's nothing else, you know, I'm fine, you know, because you know, we all had our things, you know, the the wives and girlfriends and all them and families are hearing everything that's from the news and thinking the worst.

SPEAKER_06 38:59

Yep.

SPEAKER_07 39:00

I I wanted it to be, hey, you know, this is what happened, but I'm fine, you don't have to worry, you know, because my ex-wife was was fucking I I got anxiety. I'm like, yeah, I know. Great. You know, she'd she'd take the littlest thing and run it into a freaking molehill. I'm like, you need to calm down. So like me trying to tell her as a joke was was kind of trying to it happened, but I'm good.

Leaving Ramadi And Big Picture

SPEAKER_03 39:34

Nice. Well, you you remember much kind of wrapping up the end of the deployment? Anything from uh coming home or on the way home or on the way over to Junction City? Any of that stuff?

SPEAKER_07 39:47

Um not really. I remember you guys a a few of you guys stayed behind with 2-5. Yeah. Um to do the left seat, right seat. Um, I don't remember who exactly. I know I think you were one of them.

SPEAKER_06 40:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 40:06

Um you know, I know I I remember hearing stories from you guys when you got back that you know they they didn't want to listen to you guys, didn't want to take you guys seriously, um, you know, got into their own shit and then, you know, kind of got fucked up. And you know, it was what it was. When we were, you know, if you look at it, we were the only battalion there taking on all of Ramadi. And then after we left, they split it into what three or four different battalions.

SPEAKER_06 40:41

Yep.

SPEAKER_07 40:41

Because they finally realized one battalion for that whole city might be a little overkill, you know, for us. It's yeah, not that easy to take it all, but we did it. I mean, we took the whole city and we we did it, you know.

SPEAKER_03 40:57

It kind of worked. Um it may not have worked perfectly, but it kind of worked.

PTSD Later And Finding Therapy

SPEAKER_07 41:03

No, it didn't work perfectly, but I I will say for one battalion, the way we were split up and the way we did things, and at times having to fly by the seat of our pants, we made a lot of shit work. Yeah, you know, we did stuff with the army, we did we did a lot of different things, and we had different assets with us that made it work. So honestly, you look back at it, was it crazy that you had one battalion in that big ass city? Yes, but we did it. You know, yeah at the time you had Fallujah, you had uh uh hit or heat, whatever that's called, you had all those that that that were going going crazy around us, and then you had us taking care of what we had to take care of. You know, it it we weren't crying about it, we just one foot in the front one foot in front of the other and went on about our day. You know, um one thing I do want to say though is and and and this I've talked to you about this uh recently, Shane. Um so when I came back, I didn't you know I I I I went on with my life. You know, I ended up getting divorced, um, you know, had had my kid, had all of that stuff. Um 2013 got out. But I led my life as if nothing was wrong. And through the years passed, you know, with within and out of the Marine Corps. Um I mean I I had one guy when we got back from my second deployment, barricaded himself in his room and blew his head off because he couldn't deal with the demons and everything. Um you know, and I and I lost a lot of guys that and we we all have, you know, not just me, but we all have. We've lost a lot of guys that we went to war with one way or the other, knew them, this, that, the other. You know, when you talk about PTSD and you talk about mental health, I would you never know because we could sit here and smile in each other's faces until we tell you we're great, and then the door closes, you go your way, I go my way. And what demons are we really dealing with that we didn't want to express to anybody else because we didn't want to be that burden? Um I spent up until actually April of last year when I went to Staff Sergeant Coleman, well, Gunny, but when I knew him, he was Staff Sergeant, uh, his funeral. Um I saw Bundesen, I saw a bunch of them there. Um you know, Bundesen has has always been in contact with me one way or the other. And mean And him were talking, and he brought up, you know, how was I doing? How's everything going? This, that, the other. And then he asked me, he goes, Have you are you okay? Now, mind you, this is 2025, 2024, uh, 2025, April of 25. I got out in 2013. Um, I didn't see him after the deployment. Um, after after our deployment, it was a weird time because a lot of you guys were leaving, going your separate ways. Yeah. Um, you know, I I was like, I just got to know these guys, and a lot of them are disappearing now. Now I got a whole bunch of new guys coming in. Like, what the fuck? Like, it was it was a weird time, and you know, I didn't know what to make of anything. You know, you just kind of again, the Marine Corps, one foot in front of the other, and you just keep on going. Yeah, you know, somehow it works. Yeah, you're supposed to be that that untouchable badass that just keeps on going and going and going, not supposed to have feelings or any of that stuff. Um, you know, and I I sat there and hid a lot of my stuff. Um, not saying that I was to the point where I, you know, I never thought about killing myself. But you all have those demons.

SPEAKER_06 45:59

Sure.

SPEAKER_07 46:00

So until last year, when I talked to Bundesin, you know, he was like, Hey, you know, we've talked, blah, blah, blah, this, that, the other. He's like, Have you reached out and talked to anybody? And I'm like, what are you talking about? I'm like, I'm talking to you right now. Like, he was the one that got me back into your guys' chat, or well, into your guys' chat. Like, I didn't know where any of you guys were. He was like, Give me your number. I'm gonna, I'm gonna add you into this chat. And I was like, Yeah, whatever. And I thought he'd forget. Um, he was the reason that I actually started, well, and and my wife, um, that I started actually seeing a therapist as of probably about four or five months now. Um you know, and and and I thank him for being there. I thank you, you know, all of you guys, because it's not easy. And and I I don't want I don't want to sound like, you know, like like a like a sap or whatever, but if if don't try and like for me, like you try and play the hard ass, it's all gonna catch up to you in some way, shape, or form. And it's not gonna catch up to you in a great way. Um you know, when it catches up, it's gonna kick you in the ass. And you're gonna feel like you have no other choice than to do something irrational. And, you know, a lot of these guys are dealing with demons, as we all do. And the only thing they think is, well, if I'm not here, everybody else is better, and that's not the case. Um, you know, and then Bundesen and his wife, I think his wife is actually a therapist too. Um you know, I was talking to them, uh Fooy, and a bunch of others, and you know, I remember going to my hotel room that night and sitting there, and I wrote my wife and I was like, I think it's time that I find a therapist. And you know, she called me and she goes, Whatever you need, I'm here, we can do this. You know, she actually, I think, was sitting in the background waiting for me to make the call. Oh, yeah, waiting for me to say it. Um, you can't push anybody into it anyway, even if you wanted to exactly, you know, and uh it was not easy because you don't want to admit uh, especially being you know in the military, in the marines, all that stuff, you think you're untouchable, you're you're this big badass, you know. They they build you up to be this badass.

SPEAKER_03 48:58

Yeah, you you can be the badass and still have feelings.

SPEAKER_07 49:02

Yes, but they're not exclusive. See, but the thing is they build you up to be this badass, and then they kind of tell you, leave your feelings at the door.

SPEAKER_06 49:14

Sure.

SPEAKER_07 49:15

Um, you know, and and they don't when they when you're getting out or you get back from deployment, they don't like bring you back and do anything to to see if you're how fucked up you are.

SPEAKER_02 49:30

Not back then. Not back then for sure.

SPEAKER_07 49:35

No, no, it was you literally we came back, we went on leave, guys went their separate ways, whether they got out, went to another unit, you know, this, that, the other. But there was no, hey, we're gonna do psyche valves, we're gonna do this, we're gonna do that. It was just nope, here you are, this is where you are, you're going here, you're going there. I mean, you had guys go be recruiters, you had guys go be uh DIs. Think about how bad that could have turned out, right? You know, and and back then, you're not thinking about none of that. And you know, it took me a long time to understand that. Um, you know, but I you know, me personally, I just want to like I number one want to thank you guys. Um, you know, thank Bundesen and his wife. Um you know, because it was it was not easy to accept that. Like I I still, you know, fought with it a little bit even after I told my wife that I wanted to go uh talk to a therapist. Sure, man. Um but I I think it's the best thing I ever uh one of the best things I've done. Um that's awesome. I I actually found a therapist that was that is um military that knows good, you know, like I can talk to him and he understands.

SPEAKER_03 51:08

I think that's important. Yeah, I think that's important. It's hard to get an outsider to uh I mean they can still help. I I've met a couple of I met a couple of brilliant uh people who work with TBI and PTS and and they have never experienced anything, uh military or combat, but they're genius geniuses as far as neurophysiology and and uh therapies go.

SPEAKER_07 51:30

So yeah, yeah, that's that's the biggest thing that like for me is like don't try and fight it on your own, and don't try and just bury it like like it's not there, because there's there's whether you saw a little bit or you saw a lot, there there's going to be something there, like you're coming back from Iraq and it's changing you. Yeah, you know, it you're you're not the same person, regardless of what level of intensity you saw and did. You know, it's it's not you're not going over there and you're in Hawaii having a kumbaya and all that, like you're going to Iraq and you're not coming back the same person, right? So, you know, like I said, it took me a long time, but you know, you you you definitely need that release to to get that stuff off your chest. Because like I said, like I said in the beginning, I didn't like talking about none of this, and I still don't like talking about this stuff. Like it's not something that it's in my everyday life. You know, it's there. I know I what I did and what went on, but it's it's it's way back there.

SPEAKER_02 52:48

I I have to admit, I mean, I've been I've been working on my shit for a long time, and it still is a process to you know to deconstruct, you know, because it's it's just like remodeling, just like remodeling a house. You know, you might get done with redoing the walls, but then you realize you got to rip up the carpet, you know.

SPEAKER_03 53:06

So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:09

And so every every time you get to another layer, you know, and so I'm super happy that you've been able to take these steps, man. It it I it's hard work, it it's hard work, but it's good, it's good work.

SPEAKER_07 53:20

It's it's hard just admitting that that you have a problem, that you have that issue, you know. So, you know, the biggest thing, and it's it's cliche, but admitting you have the problem is the first step, and that is always the hardest part of it. And I for the longest time could not come to grips with there might be something there that I need to talk about and get it off of my chest and see how I feel after that. I mean, shit. The other day I'm driving it was me and my wife and the kids. We're driving down the street, and a car pull and pulls up and backfires next to us. I about fucking jumped through the roof of the car. You know, it it's when I first got back, uh, you know, fireworks and stuff, it was all of that, and I didn't want to accept it. Yeah, you know, it took me a very long time. I wish I would have, but it took me a long time, especially with what we did and went through and all of that. There was nobody sitting back going, let me see how you're doing.

Brotherhood And Parting Thoughts

SPEAKER_03 54:36

Yeah, man. Well, I'm glad you're here. I'm glad you shared very much so. Uh let's wrap this up in a bow, man. Uh, you already kind of touched on in the very beginning before we even really got into it. But uh any parting thoughts what this all means to you when you look back on it 22 years later?

SPEAKER_07 54:55

I mean, you know, I you know, I I love, like I said, the the you know, the camaraderie we had. Um, you know, would I a lot of people ask me, would I do this again? You know, I'm I'm I'm the crazy one, just like a lot of people. Yes, I would. You know, the camaraderie I had with you guys was amazing. Um, you know, I like I've said before, I will call you brothers for the rest of my life. Um, you know, do I think we went over there for the right reasons? That's another story. I personally looking back at it now, no, but that's my own opinion. I have my opinion on that. I don't think what we went over there for was actually what we went over there for, but you know, they got their own reasons for why they sent us over there and what we did. Um I would never change any of it ever. Like everything that's happened happened for a reason. Everything we did, all of you guys, you know, it all happened for a reason. I, you know, I embrace it, it's part of my life. Like I said, I kind of push it to the back because I don't like talking about it, but it's part of my life forever. And you know, with you guys, I can talk about it. Out in the real world, you can't bring that to light because they don't understand it. They look at you like you got 10 heads and then they want to run away.

SPEAKER_03 56:40

Yeah, we're we're kind of like a cold sore. You got us, you got us in a fun way, but now we kind of irritate you. That's good. All right, man. Well, that's perfect. Well, I love you, brother. I'm glad you're alive, and I'm glad you shared. Thank you so much. Uh thank you for having me. We'll be in touch.

Final Thanks And Subscribe

SPEAKER_07 56:59

I I mold this over for a while. Like at the beginning, when you first said you were doing it, I was like, hell yeah, let's go. And then I sat back after a while and I'm like, I was mulling it over for a while. Like, do I want to? Do I not want to? You know, and I'm I'm playing.

SPEAKER_00 57:16

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